Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
Seattle Mariners, Pt. II
2007-05-11 14:57
by Cliff Corcoran
Note: The Bronx Banter blog has moved to

I hate to be phoning this one in, but c'mon, these teams finished a four-game tilt on Monday, there's not much that needs to be said. Since then the Yankees took two of three from Texas and the Mariners dropped two of three to the Tigers. Neither team's made a roster move since then (though the M's farmed out Julio Mateo for Sean Green in the middle of last weekend's series following a possible abuse incident involving the former), and tonght's game is a rematch of Sunday's contest, which the Yankees won 5-0 behind Darrell Rasner's job-winning 5 2/3-inning, 3-hit, no-run performance.

Odds are this series won't be nearly as eventful as last weekend's, which saw the return of Roger Clemens, Chien-Ming Wang's near perfect game, a near brawl, Matt DeSalvo's major league debut, and that dreadful, game-changing blown call in the series finale. One does wonder if there's any lingering bad blood from last Sunday's incidents, and if that will in any way be exacerbated with Josh Phelps likely starting against the lefty Jarrod Washburn again, or by a Scott Proctor relief appearance (Proctor has a suspension coming for throwing behind Yuniesky Betancourt, but it's still on appeal). Of course, Joe Torre, who already served his one-game suspension, could quell the conflict somewhat by starting the hot-hitting Doug Mientkiewicz over Phelps, but he can't avoid Proctor for the full extent of a three-game series, nor should he.

Comments (255)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-05-11 16:02:41
1.   vockins
This is barely relevant to the post, but if you think the Yanks have it bad, you haven't been paying attention to the Jays. Those dudes cannot catch a break.
2007-05-11 16:26:28
2.   rbj
So how come the Yanks miss Jeff Weaver this go round? Yes, he pitched last night, but I think his turn should have fallen when the Yankees were in town. He owes the Yankees a nice big fat win with Abreu getting his stroke back.
2007-05-11 16:34:54
3.   hensley
Weaver's been DL'd with shoulder tendenitis.
2007-05-11 17:52:36
4.   RIYank
O's are torching Julian Tavarez. 5-2 in the fifth.
2007-05-11 18:13:29
5.   nyyfan22
From Abraham's site:

Damon CF
Abreu RF
Jeter SS
Rodriguez 3B
Giambi 1B
Matsui LF
Posada C
Phelps 1B
Cano 2B
Rasner RHP (1-1, 2.75)

Suzuki CF
Vidro DH
Ibanez LF
Sexson 1B
Guillen RF
Beltre 3B
Johjima C
Betancourt SS
Lopes 2B
Washburn LHP (2-3, 3.18)

Cap'n still hitting 3rd. And he's got Phelps and Giambi both playing 1B. Gotta figure it's Giambi DH.

2007-05-11 18:32:08
6.   rbj
Not a bad lineup. I'm signing off for the night -- still lots of cleaning to do.
2007-05-11 18:32:21
7.   rsmith51
Who is this Phelps fellow? He must not hit very well since he isn't playing.
2007-05-11 18:48:19
8.   nyyfan22
I know I've read on here and over at LoHud how the Yanks should consider using Phelps as the b/u catcher since he's such a better bat and has caught in the past.

Has anyone heard or read anything from Torre or Cashman at all where they have considered that option? Just wondering...

2007-05-11 18:50:06
9.   mschulm24
5 Giambi's been scratched for tonight according to Abraham's website. It said he wasn't able to plant properly. Didn't say if melky was playing or maybe dh phelps and play minky.
2007-05-11 19:01:41
10.   Max Nomad
8 Phelps became a 1B/DH because he was an AWFUL defender and thrower as a catcher. He made Piazza look like Pudge, or so I hear.
2007-05-11 19:06:04
11.   Orly Yarly NoWai
8 Phelps is an acceptable backup catcher in the same way that Antawn Randle-El is an acceptable backup QB. Great to have in an emergency, but no more frequently.
2007-05-11 19:23:44
12.   randym77
Ichiro is an incredible pest.
2007-05-11 19:25:49
13.   Shaun P
Wow, another slow night on the Banter.

10 11 I remember Phelps being awful behind the plate, but, Tony Pena did work wonders with Posada . . . you'd think a little extra work with the catching gear might come in handy. After all, Phelps isn't playing regularly, he ought to have lots of free time on his hands. Maybe he could go from Antawn Randle-El to LaDanian Tomlinson; you don't want him catching all the time, but he's a weapon when he does.

2007-05-11 19:29:30
14.   yankz
Eh, I think I'll be in and out. I'm probably too tired to watch the whole game though.
2007-05-11 19:29:49
15.   Orly Yarly NoWai
13 Hey, Randle-El did pretty well for himself in the Super Bowl. ^_^

I definitely think it's worth exploring.

2007-05-11 19:31:05
16.   nyyfan22
Phelps is well-spoken for a 12 year old.
2007-05-11 19:33:41
17.   williamnyy23
An AB like that has to make you really worry about Cano. If he continues to swing wildly, he'll never see another fastball again.
2007-05-11 19:34:00
18.   Zack
Well, the Sox lose to the O's. Maybe Julian was wrong about them needing Clemens? :)

This is a game we have to win then, methinks, no? I like the lineup.

And my boy Peavy has 4 k's already through 2.

2007-05-11 19:35:14
19.   nick
the current failure of our young bats to hit is depressing....
2007-05-11 19:35:32
20.   mschulm24
18 Tavarez doesn't want Clemens cause that means he is out of the job.
2007-05-11 19:35:38
21.   seamus
baseball is a weird sport. Boston knocks Halladay around but Baltimore shuts em down. go figure.
2007-05-11 19:35:51
22.   Zack
And Phelps continues to do what he has done all year: hit/ Now if he could just find those incriminating pictures of Joe, he'd be all set
2007-05-11 19:41:56
23.   williamnyy23
19 Is anyone else growing a little frustrated with Cabrera and Cano. Their youth and energy really seemed to be an asset last year, but this year they both appear to be very sloppy and uninspired.
2007-05-11 19:43:58
24.   mschulm24
23 I'm not so much frustrated with Melky because I don't think he is or will be a good hitter. Cano is just in the midst of a prolonged slump. we have seen he is too good of a hitter not to break out of it.
2007-05-11 19:43:58
25.   JeremyM
23 I agree. Cano is especially frustrating at this point.

22 If he wants those pictures, he's going to have to wrestle Vizcaino for them.

2007-05-11 19:46:03
26.   Shaun P
23 I'm not frustrated, but I do think they are pressing, trying to help the team out by doing too much. I wish someone would settle them down - especially Cano.

Abreu, at least yesterday, seemed to go back to his usual 'take and rake' approach. Wasn't he mentoring those two in spring training? Maybe he could say something.

2007-05-11 19:46:28
27.   williamnyy23
24 Is it a "slump" when he continually swings at so many bad pitches. It's one thing to be off with your swing and another completely to show absolutely no discipline at the plate. I am starting to worry that the league has adjusted to Cano and he isn't able to adapt.
2007-05-11 19:47:08
28.   RIYank
Hey yall.

Washburn seems a little wild. Patience might be the ticket.

2007-05-11 19:47:44
29.   seamus
27 swing at bad pitches is a tendency of his, but he is more susceptible to it when he is in a slump.
2007-05-11 19:49:56
30.   williamnyy23
This shaping up to be another goodness this team just doesn't seem capable of getting going.
2007-05-11 19:50:18
31.   mschulm24
27 I think he is pressing right now because he is struggling. Once he finds a groove he'll show a little more discipline.
2007-05-11 19:50:24
32.   RIYank
Three innings, five baserunners, no runs.
2007-05-11 19:51:41
33.   Shaun P
Thought the Yanks had something going there. Oh well.

Hey RIYank! 28 Man it was quiet today too. Thought we'd get more of a relievers discussion going on the last thread, but I guess not.

2007-05-11 19:51:53
34.   JeremyM
Matsui hasn't done much this year either. It'd be nice if he would get going.
2007-05-11 19:53:39
35.   RIYank
Shaun, by the way, I don't agree with you about predicting relievers. I think past performance is a pretty good indicator, as it is with other players.
Of course, Villone's age means we should expect less production than previous years, I agree with that.
2007-05-11 19:54:08
36.   randym77
I think Cano will be all right. He slumped bad his first year up, and everyone wondered if the league had adjusted to him. Well, maybe they did, but he adjusted in turn.

I don't think Abreu can be much help mentoring Melky and Robby, since he's just as lost as they are. He admits he's really pressing, because he feels so bad about his performance, but doesn't seem to know how to break out of it.

I'm sure he'll be all right, too, an old pro like him. But he frustrates me more than the kids do. He doesn't walk any more. Giambi at least walks a lot when he's slumping.

2007-05-11 19:54:57
37.   williamnyy23
That was a prefect example of how Minky provides value. I've railed against him too, but that was a brutal play by Phelps.
2007-05-11 19:55:00
38.   RIYank
How can Ichiro be batting .282 when he hits like .580 against us?
2007-05-11 20:03:18
39.   BklynBmr
36 Abreu's entire game seems to have gone south. He's looking terrible in the field, too. Before his trade ultimately went down last year, you'll recall weeks of rumors and speculation. Those opposed to acquiring him pointed out his fear of walls. among other things — which is kinda evident lately, at least in my eyes...

Whoa! What is this? Screw the Yanks on the basepaths month? Yeesh...

2007-05-11 20:03:41
40.   Zack
Whats going on, my gameday is all messed up?
2007-05-11 20:03:56
41.   OldYanksFan
37 Agreed. With Stink in there, it's still a shutout.
And another bad call as Cano is safe.
2007-05-11 20:04:49
42.   williamnyy23
Wow...Cano and Cabrera are approaching automatic out status. With Giambi out, this offense has now been reduced to Jeter, Arod and Posada.
2007-05-11 20:06:03
43.   OldYanksFan
39 I don't know if it's true, but it does NOT look like Abreu is hussling in RF. A lot of misjudged balls to boot. One has to ask if he is an upgrade over Shef.
2007-05-11 20:06:15
44.   RIYank
Well, I have to take my kid to soccer practice early tomorrow, so I will leave this game in your capable hands. Here's to a Cano line drive with the bases loaded!
2007-05-11 20:06:24
45.   williamnyy23
40 Have you considered purchasing MLB gameday audio?
2007-05-11 20:06:49
46.   Zack
Wow, people actually singing the praises of M-z, scary! His hot streak has clearly clouded everyone's mind to his relative worthlessness. For every defensive play he makes this season, he will cost us twice as many offensive plays. Might as well ride the hot streak while we can tho
2007-05-11 20:07:21
47.   williamnyy23
I have a very bad feeling this game is going to get ugly fast...with the exception of a few, the body language on this team has been awful and very difficult to watch.
2007-05-11 20:07:27
48.   Zack
45 I have and audio, Im just doing other things where I can't use them right now
2007-05-11 20:08:14
49.   BklynBmr
40 Another blown call by an ump had Robbie out at first. C-l-e-a-r-l-y safe. The good 'ol human element...
2007-05-11 20:08:28
50.   williamnyy23
48 Just curious...I'd think audio would be the most convenient because you can let it run in the background.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-05-11 20:09:23
51.   Zack
What did phelps do last inning, thats where it got all screwy. his at bat never showed...
2007-05-11 20:10:42
52.   Zack
47 Guess you were right. Sigh
2007-05-11 20:10:56
53.   williamnyy23
51 He lined into a FC...Beltre knocked the ball down and forced Posada at 2B.
2007-05-11 20:11:27
54.   BklynBmr
43 Could be one of those perception/reality things, but if you have that in your mind and watch him out there... hmmm, I don't know...
2007-05-11 20:12:03
55.   williamnyy23
52 I want to stay positive, but my many, many years of watching baseball is telling me that this is a dead team. They continue to play awful and there is really no objective sign that things are going to change.
2007-05-11 20:13:22
56.   seamus
55 like winning 7 out of 10?
2007-05-11 20:14:12
57.   BklynBmr
Rasner is losing the plot...
2007-05-11 20:15:09
58.   williamnyy23
56 Against Texas and Seattle though...I'm sorry, but 7-3 against those two teams doesn't qualify as breaking out (especially if you add in the loss yesterday and oending loss today, which would bring them to 7-5 against the dregs of the NL West).
2007-05-11 20:15:15
59.   OldYanksFan
It would be painful, but I would bench Cano for 3 games. He needs to clear his head.
2007-05-11 20:15:22
60.   randym77
Abreu never exactly hustled in the outfield. Phillies fans griped about that all the time. And yes, he was ridiculously afraid of walls. I actually think he's gotten better in that respect. He actually did go against the wall to try and make a catch last week. He missed, but last year, he wouldn't have gotten that near the wall, let alone jumped against it.
2007-05-11 20:15:40
61.   BklynBmr
56 Hey. It's The Big Apple. Anything less than 11 out of 10 just won't work...
2007-05-11 20:15:51
62.   williamnyy23
58 AL West

What happened to Posada's arm this year?

2007-05-11 20:18:11
63.   seamus
62 I believe it is the pitchers who are not holding runners as effectively.
2007-05-11 20:18:53
64.   williamnyy23
63 I'm talking more about the quality of the throws, not necessarily his CS%.
2007-05-11 20:20:28
65.   williamnyy23
When Giambi gets back (if he does), I think Joe has to go Jeter, Posada, Arod, Giambi...they are the only 4 hitting and he might as well put them together.
2007-05-11 20:20:53
66.   Zack
Wow, our offense, even when we have been scoring runs, seems so hot/cold, sputter/flop...
2007-05-11 20:20:54
67.   seamus
so, is there anything to make out of the fact that while Arod has been awesome, we have so many quality hitters struggling under Long this year?
2007-05-11 20:21:34
68.   williamnyy23
Back-to-back awful ABs by Damon and Abreu...this game is giving the impression that rock bottom hasn't yet been reached.
2007-05-11 20:21:40
69.   seamus
64 what throw did you have an issue with? That last throw was fine I thought.
2007-05-11 20:22:27
70.   Zack
2-run dinger would help a lot here A-Rd
2007-05-11 20:22:38
71.   nick
ok, I'm just gonna keep my mouth shut until the pitching and the hitting are both working at the same time and we start running off long winning streaks....sigh--over and out--
2007-05-11 20:22:46
72.   williamnyy23
Damn...if Arod is going to hit a mini-slump, this team is really in trouble.
2007-05-11 20:23:42
73.   williamnyy23
69 The throw in the first inning with Ichiro on base just looped in...several throws during the year have either tailed or seemed like last season every throw was on the bag.
2007-05-11 20:24:56
74.   OldYanksFan
Six of our starting 10 have BAs UNDER .260, with 10 HRs between the 6. Our offense is on paper, and the first 3 weeks of the season. However, in the last 2+ weeks, our offense has been average at best.

Add a little off time for Giambi, one of only 4 guys hitting, and we don't have much happening.

It gets late early. Damon is hurt, but Abreu, Cano, Melkdud and Matsui need to get it together. We could lose then pennant in the next 2 weeks.

2007-05-11 20:25:07
75.   seamus
73 ok. i didn't see the first inning. therefore, i must recuse myself from judgement.
2007-05-11 20:26:39
76.   seamus
73 i do seem to recall jorge having trouble getting the handle on the ball in a couple of games earlier in the season.
2007-05-11 20:27:01
77.   mschulm24
Everything is getting hit hard. Even the outs.
2007-05-11 20:27:50
78.   seamus
77 yeah, rasner definitely either doesn't have his best stuff or the Mariners have adjusted to his stuff very well.
2007-05-11 20:28:39
79.   Shaun P
74 Come in off the ledge OYF! Its just two weeks. Do you really think Damon, Abreu, and Matsui will all hit under .260 for the season? Me neither.
2007-05-11 20:29:06
80.   mschulm24
78 i think it is a little of both. he doesn't have great control tonight. but they are waiting on his curve and hitting it well.
2007-05-11 20:29:07
81.   williamnyy23
74 I'm starting to think that it has already been lost. It isn't so much that they can't stay over .500, or that the deficit is already 7 games. I am just objectively looking at the components of this team and coming to a sad conclusion. If this team wasn't wearing "New York" across its chest, I probably wouldn't take them seriously as a contender.
2007-05-11 20:30:40
82.   seamus
frackin mlbtv just disappeared.
2007-05-11 20:31:18
83.   seamus
and it is back...
2007-05-11 20:32:03
84.   williamnyy23
79 Do you think Posada, Jeter and Arod will all hit .370? When you think about how well those guys have hit, this team should not be under .500. Between the overworked bullpen, 3+ weeks of Rasner/DelSalvo, injuries to Giambi/Damon and horrendous slumps of Abreu/Cano, the month of May could get very ugly (especially with the Mets and Red Sox easy to throw more dirt on the grave).

I agree with OYF...the pennant could be lost here.

2007-05-11 20:32:05
85.   Zack
I say we package a whole bunch of our minor league pitchers for Jake Peavy. Not that the Padres would be dumb enough to do that (I would hope), but damn! And a rotation of Peavy, Wang, Hughes would be unreal.
2007-05-11 20:33:10
86.   seamus
84 why stop there? I'm pretty sure that we just lost the 2010 pennant as well!
2007-05-11 20:33:52
87.   mschulm24
85 Take peavy out of the nl west and petco and he is not the same pitcher. Sure he would be better than the alternative but be realistic.
2007-05-11 20:34:54
88.   OldYanksFan
79 We are 7 games back, and the Sox appear to have a solid team. That have had health and pitched over their heads, but none-the-less, they are a 95+ win club.

For us to win 95 games, we need to play (80-50) .615 ball.

2007-05-11 20:34:56
89.   williamnyy23
86 I'm not saying everyone should give up the year, but can you objectively say that the Yankees aren't in serious trouble? It's nice to be an optimist, but you can't deny the reality facing this team.
2007-05-11 20:34:58
90.   BklynBmr
74 Historians and stat heads told us we lost the pennant in '05 at 11-19, in last place, 10 games out, just losing 3 of 4 to the D-Rays. I think I'll reserve judgment for now...
2007-05-11 20:35:41
91.   seamus
89 I don't think you can claim to be objective and to see nothing but gloom. But mostly I just felt that we needed some snark.
2007-05-11 20:37:21
92.   seamus
weren't people claiming that jeter would be declining by now?
2007-05-11 20:38:10
93.   seamus
that would have killed some seattle vampyres if aimed a little better. buffy would have gotten them.
2007-05-11 20:41:19
94.   Zack
87 Not so. Hes a strike out pitcher, has been as good, if not better on the road, hes young, he gets usually more than half his outs on GBs, and hes got the right mental make-up. In no way is he a different pitcher. Hes an ace, period
2007-05-11 20:42:19
95.   seamus
these nights are frustrating. too many struggling bats = too many stranded runners.
2007-05-11 20:42:34
96.   williamnyy23
90 A historian would look at every season when the Yankees started similarly to 2005...not just the one when they rebounded nicely. Also, unless you think a Chacon and Small are going to re-emerge, then I wouldn't take too much comfort in 2005.
2007-05-11 20:43:29
97.   OldYanksFan
91 In '05, the Sox started somewhat poorly. Baltimore was in first. And what, we ended the season in a tie with the Sox?

I'm not saying the season is lost, but I don't think we have a month for Cano/Melky/Damon/Abreu to get straight. Imagine where we would be if ARod wasn't superhuman for a month.

2007-05-11 20:43:41
98.   Shaun P
88 A lot can change in a few months. Many people thought the Sox were 'uncatchable' last May too, and they finished in 3rd.

84 No - but one of them could. My point wasn't that some guys aren't/are over/under performing - it was that things tend towards the middle over time. Like Cliff said a few days ago, the guys who are slumping now will carry the team when Jeter/A-Rod/Posada slump. No offense fires on all cylinders all the time.

Run differential is the best predictor of how a team will do going forward. By runs scored (192, best in AL)/runs allowed (168, 10th in AL), the Yanks 'should' be 19-14. Factor in a likely improvement in the pitching staff, thanks to Hughes, Clemens, and rest for the 'pen, and I don't see any reason to panic.

2007-05-11 20:43:59
99.   williamnyy23
91 What about my "gloomy" list do you disagree with? Believe me, I wish that sad reality wasn't the case, mostly because I'll still be watching all these games if the team drops out of it.
2007-05-11 20:44:15
100.   seamus
97 we've seen teams come from 15 games back at the all star break. It doesn't mean nothing that we are struggling, but it doesn't mean a lot either.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-05-11 20:45:35
101.   mschulm24
94 but coming to the al east will make a difference. i would love to have him, but we don't have the prospects to get him, the padres wouldn't trade him even if we did and he wouldn't be as dominant in the american league.
2007-05-11 20:46:00
102.   Shaun P
And as for the Red Sox, I don't have time for this but it might be instructive to see who they've played when. For example, getting the Ms after the 4 days of snowouts in Cleveland certainly helped, and playing the Jays when they are down has also helped.

I don't think the season is over yet by a long shot.

2007-05-11 20:48:01
103.   williamnyy23
100 Have we seen that? In the 100+ years of modern baseball, how many teams have come back from that deficit. Consider these points from a recent Jason Stark column. History IS NOT on the Yankees side. With each additional loss, the team is going to be forced to do something that has rarely been done.

* Of the 144 teams that made it to the postseason in that span, only eight (or 5.6 percent) came out of April more than three games under .500. Clubs that need to worry most about that history lesson: the Yankees (9-14), Astros (10-14), Cardinals (10-14), Cubs (10-14) and Rangers (10-15).

* Just six of those 144 playoff teams (or 4.2 percent) found themselves more than 4½ games out of a playoff spot after April. Clubs that ought to get nervous about that trend: the Cubs, Cardinals and Astros (all five games out).

* And you wouldn't think the standings would mean much this time of year. But more than half of the 120 teams that found themselves in first place after April (66 of 120) wound up finishing first. And 98 of the 120 (81.7 percent) of the teams that finished the season in first place either led their division or were within 2½ games of the lead at the end of April.

2007-05-11 20:48:37
104.   mschulm24
102 I agree. They are on pace to win over 100 games. There is no chance they keep this up. sooner or later beckett, schilling and wakefield will slow down and pitch closer to their averages than the way they have to start the season.
2007-05-11 20:51:56
105.   Shaun P
103 All of which is true, but who says its an indicator of how things will happen this year?

I seem to recall that, prior to October 2004, no MLB team had ever come back after being down 3-0 in a best of 7 series.

And before 2005, the last (and only?) time a team had been 15 games under .500 and finished the year above .500 was the 1914 Miracle Braves. In 2005, both Oakland and the Astros did it.

Those are fun stats, but I don't think they mean a whole heck of a lot in accurately predicting what happens next.

2007-05-11 20:52:35
106.   seamus
103 what span are you talking about? in 100+ years of modern baseball we've seen something like 400 teams make the postseason, not 144. In this era, 144 teams = 18 years. If 8 teams came back from that disadvantage that is at least 1 team every 2-3 years. And those are long odds?

And being in first after April is only a 55% chance of staying there? You do realize how statistically low that is? Just proves how meaningless position in the standings is this time of year.

2007-05-11 20:55:11
107.   williamnyy23
105 I agree...just like 2005 is irrelevant to this season. Instead, I am looking at the several holes/flaws in this team and am having a hard time convincing myself that "everything will be ok". This team has shown very little to suggest that they are a 95 win-type team.
2007-05-11 20:55:21
108.   seamus
106 my point isn't that the Yankees will come back. My point is that there is nothing to say that they won't. Especially when you consider how bizarre and unusual our starting rotation issues were in April.
2007-05-11 20:55:27
109.   JeremyM
All talk aside, the team isn't putting up much of a fight this inning. Good Lord.
2007-05-11 20:56:09
110.   Zack
101 Well of course they won't trade them, or at least, they shouldn't. And he wouldn't be as dominant in the AL, perhaps. But he'd be one of the top 5 AL pitchers most likely. A man can dream.

This game totally sucks

2007-05-11 20:56:14
111.   seamus
107 how about seeing something else? It isn't clear to my why it is "everything is ok" or "everything is doomed" and there is no in between. That is not objective.
2007-05-11 20:56:24
112.   williamnyy23
106 The Stark article was since 1982. Here are a few more points he made:

No Yankees team has finished April this many games under .500 since 1984. That '84 team had an 8-13 April, which meant that even a 79-62 finish didn't help it climb higher than third place, 17 games behind the Tigers.

• Only one Yankees team in history has ever entered May this many games out and then come back to finish first. And while it may seem encouraging to know that happened just two years ago -- when they emerged from April at 10-14, 6½ out -- the bad news is, the team they trailed then was the Orioles, not the Red Sox.

• So when was the last time the Yankees were this far behind Boston after April? How about 1912, when they started out 2-10 (while the Red Sox went 9-4). And how did that season turn out? The Red Sox won 105 games and won the World Series. The Yankees lost 102 -- and finished 55 games out of first.

• Finally, George Steinbrenner will really be ecstatic to learn that the 1979 Pirates are still the only team since 1935 to lurch out of April more than three games under .500 and survive to win a World Series.

2007-05-11 20:56:50
113.   williamnyy23
Another HR for Sheff...I felt better when he was struggling.
2007-05-11 20:58:57
114.   BklynBmr
96 A historian would also take into account the roster and the opposition. If the '67 Yanks start 11-19, that's one thing.

Sox start hot, Yanks cold. I'm not familiar with any math that decides it now, other than

Let's say over the next week or so, Yanks go 5-2, Boston goes 3-4. A four game lead is 'season over' in May? Or they push and Boston's lead stays at six? Wave the white flag?

Anything can and will happen between now and Game 162. Relax...

2007-05-11 20:59:21
115.   seamus
112 the Yankees finished with the 3rd best record in the AL in 1984. Which would more than likely guarantee a playoff spot in 2007. Remember, the AL was a two division league at that point. apples, meet oranges.
2007-05-11 21:00:19
116.   williamnyy23
111 The Yankees are already 7 games out...that's what makes the situation so dire. Again, the Yankees COULD come back. All I am saying is that the persistent problems facing this team leave me with little confidence. I guess it would be easier to have more hope if these losses weren't bothering me so.

With no sarcasm intended...what does your crstal ball tell you that makes you have a more positive outlook?

2007-05-11 21:01:06
117.   BklynBmr
112 No team ever blew a 3-0 lead in a...

oh, never mind...

2007-05-11 21:01:24
118.   williamnyy23
114 I am not only reacting to the present standing...I am also deeply concerned by many components of this team.
2007-05-11 21:04:01
119.   BklynBmr
118 So where's your tipping point? How many GB at what date is your cutoff?
2007-05-11 21:04:35
120.   seamus
this has been a fast game.
2007-05-11 21:05:51
121.   BklynBmr
120 Too fast, so far ;-)
2007-05-11 21:07:58
122.   BklynBmr
D@mn! You can't mess with Jack Bauer on his home turf, I guess...
2007-05-11 21:08:20
123.   Zack
This game still totally sucks. We need to be winning these games. But when our pitching is on, the offense goes to rest, and vice versa
2007-05-11 21:08:42
124.   williamnyy23
119 I don't cut the Yankees off...that's my problem. If they win 60 or 100, I am going to live and die with them. That's why it disturbs me greatly to watch this team play and not be able to find enough positive signs to make me feel optimistic.
2007-05-11 21:10:31
125.   mschulm24
are they really stupid enough to take out washburn?
2007-05-11 21:12:47
126.   seamus
apparently bruney really wanted to walk him.
2007-05-11 21:13:46
127.   BklynBmr
123 Washburn is having a career night. At this level, every dog has his day — see A. Small. It'll take another couple of games for Joe's numbers thing to get going — .500, 5 games over, 10 etc...

Announcement: Kool-Aid sales at the Banter have been cut off until further notice...

2007-05-11 21:13:58
128.   nick
william, you have a point....but let's split the difference: surely the most likely bad outcome is something like we go 90-72 and miss the wild card by a few games. (If our run differential stays the same and we play at expected w/l level, we'll win 90 on the year.) this is the weird thing about being a yanks fan these days: 90-72, in our eyes, would basically JUSTIFY apocalyptic rhetoric.

but getting 95 wins has to still seem possible. we'll get Clemens, etc. beating the sox? the odds are against us at this point, but--there's still a real chance....

one thing I HATE is burning through Proctor and Bruney etc etc etc in a game like this. we need a guy who can pitch 3 trash innings twice a week, who Joe will send out there when we're down or up by a lot.

2007-05-11 21:14:35
129.   seamus
Im surprised they didn't call him safe.
2007-05-11 21:14:36
130.   williamnyy23
One more thing about 2005. After starting 11-19, the team then reeled off 10 in a row...many against these same Mariners. We've already squandered 3 games against what really is a bad Mariners team. When does the 10-game winning streak start? An easy part of the schedule has now up are the White Sox, Red Sox, Mets and Red Sox for 19 of the next 22. When the Yankees are going well, that could be 11-8.

The more I objectively think about, the more frustrated I get!

2007-05-11 21:18:27
131.   seamus
130 14-16 > 11-19.
2007-05-11 21:19:43
132.   mschulm24
130 the white sox are not a team to fear this year.
2007-05-11 21:20:06
133.   seamus
i love those strikeouts where the ball almost hits you in the head.
2007-05-11 21:22:09
134.   williamnyy23
131 Well...16-18 isn't much better than 15-19. With each loss, the comp to 2005 isn't even favorable. Maybe a 10-game winning streak is on the horizon, but I simply can not see it.
2007-05-11 21:23:14
135.   Paul in Boston
What happened to Matsui's power? Gone after that wrist injury?
2007-05-11 21:23:40
136.   williamnyy23
130 They are not to be feared, but they aren't exactly fodder for a winning streak. In 2005, the Yankees got healthy on the Mariners...this team is has already lost 3 of 5.
2007-05-11 21:24:56
137.   BklynBmr
130 Forget 2005. This is why we watch the game. Because sh*t keeps on happening that no one can predict, against all odds, yadda yadda...

Hey, I'm with you. I've lived and died with these guys since sitting on my Dad's lap in the bleachers in 1959, sh*ttin' in my diaper, no doubt.

Of course, I'd rather have the tough times early. We have time to fix it and more often than not, gravity will visit our friends up in Boston...

Hang in there, brah...

2007-05-11 21:26:13
138.   randym77
OMG. Minky the pinch-hitter?
2007-05-11 21:28:18
139.   williamnyy23
137 For better or for worse...wish I had a more casual attitude toward this team, but this year has really been tough.
2007-05-11 21:28:39
140.   seamus
all you have to do is go back and read the posts from May 5, 2005, to see how funny this thread is. I like this comment form To Torcho:

"The answer is very simple. Nobody is perfoming. The defense sucks, the hitting in important situations isn't there, the pitching in every aspect (starters and bullpen especially) is atrocious, and everybody is a funk that will just not get away.
I don't mind losing against competent teams (I don't like it, but if they win that's it), but this team has beaten itself probably 11 times out of the (18) loses.

I will still follow them, since I now discover I am a masochist, and root for them, but I seriously doubt something is going to happen this year... "

but then there is our Simone....

"I'm coming from the prospective that this is rock bottom. The Yankees turn it around and go up from here."

she goes on, but you know, some people are downers, some people are uppers. Whatever.

2007-05-11 21:29:14
141.   BklynBmr swings and misses alot, but you gotta love their Cano strike zone bit...
2007-05-11 21:32:20
142.   seamus
btw, was that a record speed for a yankees game or what?
2007-05-11 21:33:14
143.   seamus
I think that ABreu needs to be moved out of the 2 hole. He cannot be batting so high with his cold bat. Though it is tough when Matsui, Cano, Abreu, Cabrera, etc... are all struggling.
2007-05-11 21:34:34
144.   seamus
so, maybe appendicitis explains Halladay's struggles. Boy do the jays have it rough right now.
2007-05-11 21:42:30
145.   williamnyy23
144 Of all the years to not have the Jays on the early season schedule.

Well..I'm off to toss and turn for a few hours.

2007-05-11 21:44:43
146.   Zack
Not only that, but the Jays lost Glaus yet again after his first AB
2007-05-11 21:48:12
147.   BklynBmr
139 I know, I'm right there, too... It sucks when with few exceptions this roster is under-preforming as it is. Haters around the league (including ESPN) just look at the payroll and take great joy in our stumbling out of the gate.

After a loss, I generally avoid baseball media for a day — at least the Yankees related stuff. It's good for the soul. Especially at this point in the campaign.

2007-05-11 22:21:30
148.   BklynBmr
134 Not to get too particular, but the '05 bust out was not a 10 game win streak, it was 9. In what would have been our 10th straight, Giambi stuck out in the top of 9th for the final out with the bags loaded, with the go-ahead runs on base. If nothing else, it resulted in one of my favorite NY Post back page headlines: "Sweepless in Seattle"...
2007-05-12 10:17:43
149.   Zack
Is everyone just taking a deep breath and relaxing this afternoon?

Good, enjoy it! The weather report looks grea tfor all you New Yorkers, so spend the day outside, and after dinner (well, way after dinner), the Yanks will turn it around and make it a nice night cap...

2007-05-12 14:29:10
150.   rabid stan
Completely off topic, but headline : Angels' Colon sure does mess with Texas

hee hee.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-05-12 16:15:58
151.   randym77
150 This one is better (worse?)

Royals To Get A Taste Of Angels' Colon


2007-05-12 17:56:57
152.   Zack
151 Gross...

Man, a whole day has gone by with 3 posts! Enjoy the game tonight, I hope Mighty Matt does well, I'm off to see some quality zombie face eating in 28 Weeks later...Can't wait!

2007-05-12 18:34:11
153.   ric

im a gut munching fanatic.. read Brian Keene's books if you're a true zombie lover.

2007-05-12 19:08:47
154.   LI yankee
Wow, I didn't know a 2 game losing streak was enough to scare everyone away.
2007-05-12 19:09:11
155.   BklynBmr
If nothing else good happens tonight, at least anyone on IE won't have to suffer through the Seattle announcers... Let's go Yanks!
2007-05-12 19:10:51
156.   LI yankee
155 The folks are not so fortunate
2007-05-12 19:11:48
157.   3rd gen yankee fan
Proctor's 4 game suspension starts today.
2007-05-12 19:21:41
158.   LI yankee
I never thought Jeter would be able to repeat his performance from last year. I guess I was wrong.
2007-05-12 19:23:10
159.   BklynBmr
156 I know radio is different, but it's nice having that option on Gameday Audio.

157 Four games seemed a little harsh for that...

Man, Ichiro has not lost a step since he came into the league...

2007-05-12 19:23:30
160.   LI yankee
Wow, another blown call by an ump.
2007-05-12 19:24:03
161.   randym77
We wuz robbed. Ichiro was out.
2007-05-12 19:26:02
162.   BklynBmr
160 No sh*t, what's going on with these guys?

Wow! DeSalvo is a ballplayer! Nice reaction/recovery on that DP...

2007-05-12 19:26:08
163.   randym77
But it's okay, because a great DP by deSalvo, Jeter, and Minky erases him...
2007-05-12 19:27:55
164.   OldYanksFan
Day old thread?
2007-05-12 19:29:29
165.   BklynBmr
164 Yeah, no one bothered to even pick up the phone today ;-)
2007-05-12 19:31:08
166.   LI yankee
Nice inning for DeSalvo, but a little erratic.
2007-05-12 19:32:46
167.   LI yankee
Oh man, that fan pulled a Bartman
2007-05-12 19:33:55
168.   BklynBmr
Heh-heh, stupid Mariner fan kept Jason alive. I was hoping 'Zilla would homer, didn't want to see Giambi running...
2007-05-12 19:35:18
169.   BklynBmr
Man, Hip Hip is on auto! Couldn't be happening to a better pinstriper...
2007-05-12 19:37:24
170.   randym77
All right, Minky!
2007-05-12 19:37:24
171.   BklynBmr
2007-05-12 19:37:39
172.   LI yankee
168 He must definitely be hearing it now.
2007-05-12 19:40:39
173.   LI yankee
Hell yeah Damon. Where has this team been?
2007-05-12 19:41:20
174.   yankz
Quietest Banter day ever?
2007-05-12 19:42:23
175.   LI yankee
Jeter and A-Rod now need to put this game away.
2007-05-12 19:43:29
176.   iicollies
It'll be a nice time for everyone to come out of their collective slump. Led by Minky?
2007-05-12 19:44:34
177.   LI yankee
174 I figure that Saturday night and 10 PM isn't a good combination.
2007-05-12 19:45:44
178.   yankz
177 Yeah, I was just thinking, two night games in Seattle + no new post = quiet, quiet day.
2007-05-12 19:48:33
179.   yankz
Pretty cool, and typical, article on the captain:
2007-05-12 19:53:05
180.   BklynBmr
178 That's OK, we got the joint to ourselves tonight ;-)

I'm diggin' DeSalvo so far. This year's Aaron Small? Hey, ya never know...

2007-05-12 19:54:26
181.   iicollies
Much more upside than Small
2007-05-12 19:55:07
182.   LI yankee
Jorge es en fuego
2007-05-12 19:55:35
183.   3rd gen yankee fan
Wow, the hitting is amazing tonight.
2007-05-12 19:56:02
184.   randym77
Aw, Minky. A bunt? I want another three-run homer!
2007-05-12 19:56:08
185.   LI yankee
We're killing this guy, so we bunt. Makes sense...
2007-05-12 19:57:40
186.   BklynBmr
181 Oh yeah, starting with what, about 12 years? ;-) I meant a very pleasant, unexpected surprise. Watch him put up better numbers than DiceK — that would be sweet...
2007-05-12 19:59:11
187.   BklynBmr
185 Torre missed a night with his one game suspension, so he's making up for it...
2007-05-12 20:00:15
188.   LI yankee
187 Well it worked out, which means Minky probably called it.
2007-05-12 20:13:00
189.   Max Nomad
Hi all. Matty lookin' great. I love his athleticism. He speared that Sexson grounder.

And all the stories about his philosophy books are great!

Go Yanks.

2007-05-12 20:14:37
190.   yankz
Captain Clutch is now batting .381 on the season, .457 in May. Just an FYI.
2007-05-12 20:19:47
191.   seamus
wow. it is quiet here.

good to see the early lead. And jeter is alive big time!

2007-05-12 20:23:17
192.   yankz
Mighty Matt only at 38 pitches
2007-05-12 20:26:17
193.   randym77
LOL! Bobby, you're not fooling anyone.
2007-05-12 20:27:50
194.   seamus
193 you notice his smirk? I thought it was funny.
2007-05-12 20:28:44
195.   Max Nomad
Hey, since it's quiet. A little off topic:

I've just been asked for an interview with Holland America Cruise lines, for a position as a "Youth Coordinator." Basically the guy who organizes all the youngsters and keeps'em busy with sports and stuff while Mom and Dad gamble.

Any one ever do something like this? Know what to expect? Even been on a cruise?

Matty D lookin' sweeeet.

2007-05-12 20:29:06
196.   BklynBmr
193 Yeah, that was one of the worst "sells" I've seen, but nice hands on the stab, regardless...
2007-05-12 20:30:04
197.   seamus
we're doomed.
2007-05-12 20:30:44
198.   randym77
Yeah, he knew he didn't make the catch. :-D
2007-05-12 20:32:10
199.   seamus
these M announcers are kinda dorky. not that i'm not.
2007-05-12 20:34:39
200.   LI yankee
199 All the FSN announcers sound the same. I still can't tell the difference.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-05-12 20:37:11
201.   OldYanksFan
195 Sounds like a horrible, horrible job. Will you also have to entertain single mothers? Single woman outnumber single men on cruises by 5:1 or more.
2007-05-12 20:40:05
202.   yankz
201 A single woman: man ratio of 5 to 1? That's a bad thing?
2007-05-12 20:41:23
203.   yankz
Mighty Matt is the man
2007-05-12 20:41:35
204.   Max Nomad
201 Single women, eh? All the more reason...

I hear good things about HAL (the cruise, not the robot, he was evil), just not sure what to expect in this interview. Corporate places like that only give one shot, even after you get the job (meaning don't screw up).

2007-05-12 20:43:37
205.   seamus
anyone think desalvo will get a complete game? I kind of think he isn't quite sharp enough not to struggle more, but he has been damned efficient. 56 pitches in 5 innings.
2007-05-12 20:44:53
206.   BklynBmr
200 Same here. One's worse than the other. It's even more mind numbing when their home team wins. Every call is Game 7 of the WS...
2007-05-12 20:45:08
207.   seamus
204 i think with interviews, the only thing that matters is that you believe that you are the right person, or convince yourself of it, and then speak honestly from that place of complete arrogance.
2007-05-12 20:45:17
208.   yankz
Oh come on Jeet you slacker
2007-05-12 20:45:40
209.   seamus
208 we're doomed.
2007-05-12 20:46:14
210.   Max Nomad
206 Blyleven was annoying as hell in MIN.

207 hehe

2007-05-12 20:47:06
211.   Max Nomad
Hey, you know, Matty's given up more hits this time, but that's OK with the big lead. Less walks and more GB too.
2007-05-12 20:47:53
212.   seamus
desalvo's delivery really reminds me of Moose's delivery. Anyone else see that?
2007-05-12 20:48:10
213.   Max Nomad
First career K!
2007-05-12 20:48:43
214.   LI yankee
206 It's hilarious the enthusiasm they have for everything their team does, and how their team can never do any wrong.

Kay might be annoying at times, but I'd take him over any of these guys in a heartbeat.

2007-05-12 20:49:06
215.   seamus
hmmm. obstructed view seats still available. For some reason, those don't sound so good.
2007-05-12 20:53:58
216.   Max Nomad
Hey, sweet play there by Spaz
2007-05-12 20:57:33
217.   Max Nomad
Hobbs slumping a bit?
2007-05-12 21:07:28
218.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
# 9 hitter? hitting .095? And he walks him on 4 pitches? none of which, according to gamecenter are within a foot of the strike zone?

Tears hair out.

I could never manage a baseball team.

2007-05-12 21:10:10
219.   BklynBmr
212 Funny you mentioned that. I was distracted in the first inning tonight, and in my first glance at the screen I see the pitcher's motion from the centerfield camera angle and thought for a split second "oh, cool, Moose is going tonight" — with my lizard brain not even seeing the uni number, or remembering the rotation schedule...
2007-05-12 21:11:22
220.   3rd gen yankee fan
Think Myers will get Ibanez out? Or are we in for Yet Another Frustrating Bullpen Meltdown?
2007-05-12 21:13:57
221.   BklynBmr
220 Can't happen. It just can't. We have to take this one without any drama...
2007-05-12 21:14:56
222.   BklynBmr
Whew! Alex has a gun and a half...
2007-05-12 21:17:39
223.   LI yankee
Of course for FSN O'Flaherty is the hero of the game, I guess for not allowing the score to go 15-2.
2007-05-12 21:17:48
224.   OldYanksFan
ARod has been very good in the field. He has 3 errors, and all of them were questionable... including the windblown, pop-up that was Jorge's ball, but he lost (in the 1st game?).

ARod didn't even get a glove on it, and they still called it an error.

2007-05-12 21:18:25
225.   BklynBmr
The league is just going to have to start IBB'n Georgie...
2007-05-12 21:18:31
226.   LI yankee
224 Yep, that was the very first inning of the year. Should not have been an error.
2007-05-12 21:39:27
227.   BklynBmr
Cap is at .376

Would you send A-Rod here with a 5 run lead?

2007-05-12 21:43:29
228.   OldYanksFan
That's NOT a base hit. What is it with these 'official' scorers?
2007-05-12 21:50:41
229.   BklynBmr
228 They're more often than not "journalists". 'Nuff said...
2007-05-12 21:50:52
230.   randym77
Oh, Minky. :-P
2007-05-12 21:53:13
231.   BklynBmr
Good opportunity to work on the run down play. No way you double up Ichiro there anyway...
2007-05-12 21:53:26
232.   yankz
Come on, Mo, it's late.
2007-05-12 21:54:48
233.   yankz
Yay! Good night, all...1 AM here...
2007-05-12 21:55:45
234.   BklynBmr
How cool is that for DeSalvo? First big league win! Seems like a great kid, too...
2007-05-12 22:15:46
235.   randym77
I'm surprised no one took him the Rule 5 draft when the Yanks left him exposed.
2007-05-13 00:36:22
236.   Zack
Back from 28 Weeks Later to see that the real Yankees finally replaced those awful zombie ones that keep showing up (and not those fast zombies either, the Night of the Living Dead slow, brain eating ones). Movie wasn't as good as hoped, but still darn entertaining...

In any case, anyone see this so called slow forkball DeSalvo threw? SOunds like he looked good, oh well, lets hope for a good sunday!

2007-05-13 09:57:06
237.   3rd gen yankee fan
"Matt DeSavior" :-)
2007-05-13 10:29:14
238.   Zack
Does anyone else every look at's truth and rumors section, now under FanNation? I'm not sure I've ever read so much hogwash, obviousness, and ridiculousness in my life. The baseball stuff so stupid its infuriating...
2007-05-13 10:43:30
239.   seamus
the nice weather must really be keeping folks away. we need a new thread. and another win!
2007-05-13 10:56:02
240.   Zack
This mini west coast trip has really messed with my head. Here I made sure to be at my ocmputer at 10:00AM on a sunday, only to remember that the game is at 1:00 here. Did the same thing last night.
2007-05-13 11:20:34
241.   mschulm24
Nice to see Beckett getting hit early.
2007-05-13 11:20:58
242.   3rd gen yankee fan
Something's gotten into both Toronto and TB. Jae Seo is throwing a one-hitter, Shaun Marcum still has his no-no going in the 6th. :-O
2007-05-13 11:26:08
243.   seamus
did we lose alex and cliff?
2007-05-13 11:59:53
244.   mschulm24
peter abraham said that Clemens is scheduled to make his first minor league start on Friday. That puts him in line after 3 starts to make his first yankee start in the last game of the red sox series or the opener of the white sox series.
2007-05-13 12:06:31
245.   LI yankee
243 Yeah, strange that there haven't been any new posts.
2007-05-13 12:17:57
246.   LI yankee
Anyone know why Beckett left after only 4 IP?
2007-05-13 12:21:01
247.   mschulm24
246 i heard something about his finger. Here's to hoping his blister problem is back.
2007-05-13 12:21:05
248.   LI yankee
246 Just read it was announced to the media that he has "irritation to the right middle finger"

Sounds like blisters

2007-05-13 12:25:04
249.   LI yankee
Now I'm reading it's an avulsion, which is supposedly not as bad as a blister.


2007-05-13 12:30:25
250.   mschulm24
this website says a small avulsion to the finger requires immobilazion for 2-4 weeks.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2007-05-13 12:44:39
251.   ric

that article seems to be talking about a bone fracture rather than a skin injury..

2007-05-13 13:33:12
252.   3rd gen yankee fan
246 Because I told him, "Okay Beckett, you're DONE! Your streak stops TODAY!"

I did. Luckily it worked...

2007-05-13 13:54:14
253.   3rd gen yankee fan
C'mon offense, WAKE UP!
2007-05-13 13:58:40
254.   3rd gen yankee fan
Right on, Abreu got a walk!

Am I really the only cheerleader here today?

2007-05-13 14:12:00
255.   3rd gen yankee fan
Oh I am having baseball agida. Boston just made it 5-4 bottom of the 9th, and Andy's got the bases loaded with no one out. uuuuuuuuuugh

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