Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
The Seattle Mariners
2007-05-04 12:18
by Cliff Corcoran
Note: The Bronx Banter blog has moved to

The Mariners are a tough team to figure. To begin with, they're the only team in the major leagues with a winning record that has been outscored by its opponents. They're also run extremely hot and cold over the past three weeks, first losing six straight to the Twins and Angels, then taking seven of eight from the Rangers, A's, Royals, and White Sox. The M's also had five of their first twenty games postponed by snow or rain, though they've already made one of those up, falling to the Red Sox in Boston last night on Manny Ramirez's game-winning shot off Chris Reitsma in the eighth.

Thus far, the only thing that's really working for them on offense is catcher Kenji Johnjima (.305/.349/.508). That's not much of a surprise given that their big offseason acquisitions were Joses Vidro and Guillen. More surprising: Richie Sexson is really struggling (.150/.253/.375) and after finishing fifth in the AL in stolen bases last year, the M's are dead last in the majors having gone just 6 for 10 on the bases thus far in 2007. On the other side of the ball, Felix Hernandez looked to be breaking out only to go down with a scary elbow injury. He's expected back next week, but M's fans will likely continue to hold their breath over the health of King Felix for a while longer. Behind Hernandez's scary elbow has been more scary pitching in the form of starters Miguel Bautista (6.30 ERA), Horacio Ramirez (6.64) and old buddy Jeff Weaver (0-4, 18.26 in four starts). If not for the unlikely performance of Jarrod Washburn (2.88 ERA, 0.99 WHIP) and the solid showing by their bullpen (3.35 ERA) the M's would be in a much worse way, which, frankly, I assume they will be before to long.

Tonight, the Yanks draw South Korean-born Cha Seung Baek, who's holding King Felix's spot in the rotation. Baek has started against the two worst teams in the American League and produced one solid start, that coming against the Royals at Safeco. The Yankees last tussled with Baek in Jeff Karstens' major league debut last August. Baek and Karstens matched one another roughly pitch-for-pitch in that contest, with Bobby Abreu homering of Baek and the Yankees pulling ahead against the Mariner bullpen only to see Jaret Wright and Ron Villone blow the game in the final two frames. Tonight, Baek's mound opponent will be Kei Igawa, who salvaged his spot in the Yankee rotation with a fantastic emergency appearance last Saturday after Karstens had his leg broken by a comebacker on the first pitch of the game. Afterwards, Joe Torre speculated that Igawa might have been well served by the lack of warning, which prevented him from overthinking his outing, or building up nerves. It will be interesting to see how he does tonight, having had the last week to think about tonight's start.

Incidentally, Igawa still leads the Yankees in wins, though he's now tied with Luis Vizcaino, who vultured Andy Pettitte's second win in game one yesterday. His five outings can be split into two awful ones:

9 1/3 IP, 16 H, 14 R, 4 HR, 6 BB, 5 K (13.50 ERA, 2.36 WHIP)

And three solid ones:

17 1/3 IP, 10 H, 5 R (4 ER), 1 HR, 7 BB, 14 K (2.08 ERA, 0.98 WHIP)

If the Yankees can find a way to keep Igawa on his game, they could have one of the best fourth starters in baseball.

Seattle Mariners

2006 Record: 78-84 (.481)
2006 Pythagorean Record: 78-84 (.481)

Manager: Mike Hargrove
General Manager: Bill Bavasi

Home Ballpark (2006 Park Factors): Safeco Park (94/95)

Who's Replacing Whom?

Jose Guillen replaces Jeremy Reed (minors)
Jose Vidro replaces Carl Everett
Jamie Burke replaces Rene Rivera (minors)
Jason Ellison replaces Chris Snelling and Adam Jones (minors)
Miguel Batista replaces Gil Meche
Jeff Weaver replaces Jamie Moyer
Horacio Ramirez replaces Joel Pineiro
Cha Seung Baek is holding Felix Hernandez's place while he's on the DL
Chris Reitsma replaces Rafael Soriano
Brandon Morrow replaces Emiliano Fruto and Sean Green (minors)
Eric O'Flaherty inherits playing time from Eddie Guardado, Ryan Feierabend, and Cesar Jimenez (DL)
Sean White replaces Jake Woods (minors)

25-man Roster:

1B – Richie Sexson (R)
2B – Jose Lopez (R)
SS – Yuniesky Betancourt (R)
3B – Adrian Beltre (R)
C – Kenji Kohjima (R)
RF – Jose Guillen (R)
CF – Ichiro Suzuki (L)
LF – Raul Ibañez (L)
DH – Jose Vidro (S)


L – Ben Broussard (1B)
R – Willie Bloomquist (UT)
R – Jason Ellison (OF)
R – Jamie Burke (C)


L – Jarrod Washburn
R – Miguel Batista
L – Horacio Ramirez
R – Jeff Weaver
R – Cha Seung Baek


R – J. J. Putz
L – George Sherrill
R – Julio Mateo
R – Chris Reitsma
R – Brandon Morrow
L – Eric O'Flaherty
R – Sean White

15-day DL: R – Felix Hernandez, L – Arthur Rhodes
60-day DL: R – Mark Lowe, L – Cesar Jimenez

Typical Lineup

L – Ichiro Suzuki (CF)
R – Adrian Beltre (3B)
S – Jose Vidro (DH)
L – Raul Ibañez (LF)
R – Richie Sexson (1B)
R – Jose Guillen (RF)
R – Kenji Johjima (C)
R – Yuniesky Betancourt (SS)
R – Jose Lopez (2B)

Comments (403)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-05-04 14:20:07
1.   rbj
Go Yankees.

I'm off to see Chase Wright vs. the Mudhens tonight.

2007-05-04 14:32:01
2.   OldYanksFan
"If the Yankees can find a way to keep Igawa on his game, they could have one of the best fourth starters in baseball."

How fast things change. Don't worry though... if he has a bad start tonight, Banterers will be demanding he's shipped back to Japan in a box.

2007-05-04 14:39:35
3.   Dimelo
2 I actually cringed when I read that line from Cliff. I'd like to hope he'll be the best fourth starter in all of baseball, maybe he can win the 4th starter Cy Young but I don't think it'll happen.

He just doesn't make me feel confident, I hope it works out for the best of the team. He's a Yankee so I'll be rooting hard for him.

Nevertheless, I am hoping Cliff is right and he does become the best fourth starter in the AL. We'll see....time will tell.

2007-05-04 14:49:59
4.   rabid stan
2 Cliff hasn't been too down on Igawa, and those who have been down on him are still skeptical.

Still, if Iggy does implode and the Yankees have to employ five or more relievers to clean up, no one will demand he be shipped back in a box. It would be cheaper to bypass the shipping altogether and just float the box into the Pacific Ocean next Friday, and let the current take it to Japan for free.

I kid, of course.

2007-05-04 14:52:24
5.   rabid stan
3 I don't think there are any illusions that Igawa will post shut-down numbers.

"one of the best fourth starters in baseball" = league average

2007-05-04 14:52:43
6.   Schteeve
I hear Pavano taught Igawa his megapitch.
2007-05-04 14:53:01
7.   Schteeve
5 That's all he needs to be.
2007-05-04 15:01:44
8.   RIYank
3 Hm, that couldn't be called a "Cy Young", though. What would it be called? Maybe the Jim Coates award?
2007-05-04 15:14:03
9.   Schteeve
8 The Aaron Small Award.
2007-05-04 15:29:39
10.   Zack
Here is the lineup:
Damon CF
Jeter SS
Abreu DH
Rodriguez 3B
Matsui LF
Posada C
Cano 2B
Cabrera RF
Mientkiewicz 1B

giambi out with cramps I think. I have said it before and I say it again, free Josh Phelps!

I mean, if anyone needs a day of its Abreu, and the thought that DHing him is the answer is silly. Meanwhile, phelps hasn't played in literally forever and tonight seems like a primo time with Giambi out. buuuuuut noooooo...

2007-05-04 15:34:36
11.   Cliff Corcoran
Quick, who has more home runs, the Yankee first basemen (not including Giambi) or the Yankee outfileders (all five of 'em)?

More home runs: hot-hitting Jorge Posada or the Yankee first base platoon?

I'm not saying it's significant (in fact, it's a fluke if there ever was one), but it's nonetheless true.

2007-05-04 15:50:33
12.   Jim Dean
You saying we should lay off Mgfsdhjk, Cliff?

You know, Mgfhsdjg still has an OPS+ of 57 and a RATE2 of 89.

I was just salivating at Helton again today. The road split is still extreme:

Home: .462 .614 .590 (57 PA)
Away: .309 .406 .418 (64 PA)

But his defense is looking tasty with a 114 RATE2.

You bet he's overpriced, but if they could do an Abreu deal, with Giambi off the payroll after next year, and his lefty stroke in Yankee Stadium, he could be a fine solution. Of course, there's no chance I see it happening.

2007-05-04 15:53:21
13.   DougP
10 I wonder if they gave any thought to DH'ing Posada tonight and having Nieves catch, since Giambi is out anyway, and then Posada would catch both games this weekend instead of likely sitting out tomorrow's game as a day game after a night game.
2007-05-04 15:55:54
14.   Max Nomad
12 I was thinking about Helton as well, but he's seriously losing extra-base pop. His SLG is lower than his OBP. That says something. Yea, he's much better than Big Mink, but not for the price and years remaining.
2007-05-04 16:02:51
15.   Jim Dean
13 Too complicated for Tea. Plus, I think he has a visceral fear of DH'ing Jorge because then he might have to use an emergency catcher.

14 I know but when the choice is Mghdjgh, and it's not my money...

Still, that ability to get on base will age well. As will his defense. Of course he'll be overpriced, but if Damon can hit 20 HR's as a lefty on the Yankees, then Helton would do fine.

2007-05-04 16:04:42
16.   DougP
15 Emergency catcher is apparently the only way Phelps can get into a game these days.
2007-05-04 16:07:18
17.   Max Nomad
Manny to work from home?


2007-05-04 16:07:25
18.   Cliff Corcoran
12 No I'm not. In fact, I thought I made that clear.
2007-05-04 16:08:53
19.   Jim Dean
16 Seriously. We should start the over-under on two bets:

When Phleps gets the full-time job?

And, how many games before Tea benches him again?

I'm calling June 5th and 19 games.

It wouldn't surprise me to see a Andy Phillips redux either. He's smoking hot in AAA. That will be a nice interlude before the All-star break.

2007-05-04 16:11:11
20.   Jim Dean
18 My bad. I didn't think you were defending the poor soul - just a gentle nudge to cease the harping.
2007-05-04 16:15:30
21.   DougP
19 I think two weeks is too long. Torre will never give him that much of a chance.

I think I would be surprised if we saw Andy Phillips before September 1, unless there's an injury to one of our first basemen. Putting Phillips on the roster means dumping another first baseman and I don't think it'll be Minky because Torre loves him and if its Phelps, then we lose him to Baltimore because he's a Rule 5 draft pick.

2007-05-04 16:17:55
22.   Max Nomad
mmmmmm.......pasta divingggg......
2007-05-04 16:18:46
23.   JimCobain
I know it's obvious and not that new of a development but with these starting pitchers, Matsui, Ichiro, Beltre, etc., etc. It's just a reminder of just how international the "national pastime" has become. And it's very cool!
(End cheesey aside)
2007-05-04 16:21:32
24.   Jim Dean
23 Me, I was thinking the same thing last weekend - Three games in a row: Matsuzaka, Igawa, Wang.
2007-05-04 16:22:49
25.   Jim Dean
21 It's tough to see - if this keeps up does Cashman really do nothing?
2007-05-04 16:24:56
26.   Eirias
Igawa? It is all in the sunglasses.
2007-05-04 16:25:18
27.   JimCobain
right on cue, Abreu gets a hit and Arod gets an RBI... Bobby gets going and the offense will take off.
2007-05-04 16:26:34
28.   DougP
25 I'm not sure. I've always wondered about how much power Cashman can exercise in that regard. Does Cashman say to Torre, "You know, Joe, you're giving 95% of the at-bats at first to a guy who is batting .150 while sitting a guy who batted .400 in spring training. Shouldn't you maybe give this other guy a chance to play?"
2007-05-04 16:28:52
29.   vockins
Looks like somebody else "doesn't speak very well English," Leiter.
2007-05-04 16:29:09
30.   JimCobain
28 Ultimately Cash is Joe's boss. I doubt Brian has gotten Joe on the phone much, though, considering the bullpen issues, etc. But certainly in other organizations the GM can suggest playing a guy. Or sometimes a GM tells the manager to "showcase" a player in order to trade him.
2007-05-04 16:29:12
31.   RIYank
Hey, is this the first MLB game between a Japanese starter and a Korean starter?
2007-05-04 16:29:54
32.   bartap74
"Johima and Beck don't speak very well English."


2007-05-04 16:31:15
33.   Jim Dean
28 It's a good question but it's probably analogous to Womack. And he was on a two year deal. Still didn't prevent them from DFA'ing him.

They could do the same to Mfhjkfvg and it seems they at least believed in Phillips as a LIDR. After all, they carried him on the playoff roster for that purpose.

2007-05-04 16:31:48
34.   Jim Dean
32 Nice.
2007-05-04 16:32:54
35.   OldYanksFan
Fantastic throw to the plate.
Great running by ARod. The guys does it all.
Tippy Cano!!
2007-05-04 16:33:12
36.   JimCobain
why would the M's pull in the infeild in here? Posada is so slow you could play back and get him... And wouldn't you rather the second out here?
2007-05-04 16:33:59
37.   BklynBmr
What time does the game start? Batting practice is airing on IE right now...
2007-05-04 16:34:00
38.   Jim Dean
Wow, and Weaver tomorrow. This could be a very fun weekend and slump busting all around.
2007-05-04 16:34:27
39.   JimCobain
36 And it killed them... works for me though ;)
2007-05-04 16:34:39
40.   Max Nomad
Man, Leiter is such a bad communicator.
2007-05-04 16:34:46
41.   Jim Dean
And a .400 hitter a .500 hitter?
2007-05-04 16:34:48
42.   DougP
I can't believe I'm missing all this good stuff because GameDay is breaking down on me. I gotta leave work now and turn on YES. Catch you all in a bit.
2007-05-04 16:35:09
43.   RIYank
36 They might have thought the game was close to out of reach... Worked out well for the Melkman, anyway.

This is fun. I'm enjoying this a lot.

2007-05-04 16:35:27
44.   Max Nomad
Well, at least Mink didn't GIDP
2007-05-04 16:35:31
45.   Alex Belth
Yo, A Rod is such a good player, man. He's been getting GREAT reads off the the bat this year have you guys noticed that? I mean, Posada's single was luck--it's a double play when he's going poorly, and two RBI's when you are going good (ala Melky's cheapshit hit), and A Rod timed it off the bat, and beat a terrific throw from Guillien in right. What was that botched play the last night when Cano struck out to end the inning with A Rod on second. The pitch hit Cano in the backfoot and so the play was eventually called dead. But it wasn't dead off the bat and A Rod stole third and then came charging home. Anyhow, he's just such a smart player, it's fun to watch.
2007-05-04 16:36:59
46.   Max Nomad
Let's hope Shades isn't TOO cool after this long inning
2007-05-04 16:37:34
47.   mehmattski
Man, these Mariners announcers sound so depressed. I would be too, I guess, but it is their job to entertain...

I think one inning is enough for me tonight. I'll be back for the Weaver ass-whupping though. As Alex would say, Let's Go Yan-Kees.

2007-05-04 16:37:50
48.   Max Nomad
45 Seriously.
2007-05-04 16:37:51
49.   RIYank
37 Nice.
I guess Damon felt he needed extra BP: he took his cuts twice.
2007-05-04 16:37:56
50.   BklynBmr
45 I will be very bummed if he opts out.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-05-04 16:40:36
51.   OldYanksFan
45 Glad you noticed and commented. We tend to be wowed with the HRs and OPS, but this guy is just a great ballplayer. He hussles like a kid trying to make the team. Old school. A pleasure to watch.

JD and Abreu must have cost him 10 RBIs.

GOD!!!!!! I hope we don't lose him.
A 2009 team with no ARod and no Giambi? No thanks.

2007-05-04 16:40:42
52.   Jim Dean
45 You bet.
2007-05-04 16:40:44
53.   JimCobain
45 We're watching the best player of his generation and have three years of very-good to great years he's having a Hall of Fame year, one we'll look back on.
2007-05-04 16:40:49
54.   Alex Belth
Let's hope Igawa doesn't make this a game here...He should be able to give them seven full tonight, screw that.
2007-05-04 16:41:07
55.   RIYank
I thank the lord for Posada. Like those Boston invaders were saying this afternoon about Ortiz.
2007-05-04 16:42:09
56.   RIYank
Igawa can keep it in the strike zone all evening with this lead. Oughta.
2007-05-04 16:43:41
57.   Alex Belth
That was a bomb.
2007-05-04 16:44:20
58.   Jim Dean
Is Igawa pitching from the stretch?
2007-05-04 16:44:26
59.   JimCobain
Now that's how you hit a long home run, watch and run...
2007-05-04 16:44:35
60.   bartap74
That second fly ball did not bode well.
2007-05-04 16:45:06
61.   RIYank
Kenji drives Kei's pitch over Hideki's head. Who could have imagined that even ten years ago?
2007-05-04 16:45:10
62.   JimCobain
58 Yup. He's the anti Dice-K he works better out of the stretch...
2007-05-04 16:45:12
63.   BklynBmr
Johjima seems to spank Japanese pitchers pretty well...
2007-05-04 16:45:14
64.   randym77
Nice catch, Godzilla.
2007-05-04 16:45:41
65.   Jim Dean
THey said him pitching from the stretch allowed him to simplify his delivery last weekend.
2007-05-04 16:46:23
66.   JimCobain
61 I was saying above... but to continue the thought how cool must it be to be a fan in Japan, to get to see your countrymen represent.
2007-05-04 16:46:35
67.   Max Nomad
50 Seriously
2007-05-04 16:47:58
68.   Jim Dean
61 No kidding. But who would have imagined a Yankees team without any African Americans (Does Jeter count? What does he call himself?).

62 Thanks.

2007-05-04 16:49:42
69.   BklynBmr
61,66 I love it. Probably revenge for an American (Chad Rowan) becoming the top sumo wrestler in Japan ;-)
2007-05-04 16:50:21
70.   RIYank
68 Jeez, you're right. I dunno how Jeter 'identifies'. Probably as "Derek Jeter".
2007-05-04 16:51:22
71.   claybeez
68 I can assure you that according to African-Americans he counts. So does Halle so step off. ;)

Actually, I was just talking to my wife about this last night. I said now that Gordon's gone Jete stands alone. A bit strange for a NY team. I guess it speaks to the dearth of baseball involvement by young blacks.

2007-05-04 16:51:52
72.   JimCobain
68 Wow, yeah didn't think about that, kinda weird.
2007-05-04 16:51:59
73.   RIYank
Wow, Baek is Back. Too bad, I was hoping to destroy the M bullpen tonight.
2007-05-04 16:53:07
74.   Max Nomad
70 I loved when the media asked Tiger Woods, "What race do you represent?" and Tiger said, without hesitating, "The Human Race."
2007-05-04 16:53:40
75.   RIYank
71 You're right. And think about pitchers, now that you mention Gordon. I mean, besides D-Train, who are the top-line African American pitchers? It's amazing, so far from what you'd have expected ten, twenty years ago.
2007-05-04 16:53:59
76.   BklynBmr
71 Yo! The Irish are counting in Jetes, too. ;-)
2007-05-04 16:55:15
77.   RIYank
I guess that's the other thing. You think of Jeter, you think of Tiger, more and more athletes have broken down our ideas of racial categories. The fact that they're both elegant, fluid athletes...
Damn Ichiro.
2007-05-04 16:55:59
78.   BklynBmr
74 Never heard that quote before. Awesome. Talk about somebody who 'gets it'...
2007-05-04 16:56:07
79.   Jim Dean
2007-05-04 16:56:21
80.   randym77
Jeez. Is anyone faster than Ichiro?
2007-05-04 16:57:15
81.   JimCobain
Anyone else getting the radio feed and the SAP feed watching in NYC?
2007-05-04 16:59:15
82.   RIYank

Igawa is taking this Throwing Strikes thing too seriously.

2007-05-04 17:00:11
83.   Zack
Well I sure tuned in at the wrong moment...
2007-05-04 17:00:11
84.   randym77
Looks like this is going to be a busy night for Matsui.
2007-05-04 17:00:18
85.   Max Nomad
75 I think, not including foreign-born players, that there are only 8 percent blacks in MLB.
2007-05-04 17:00:29
86.   Alex Belth
Dudes, the picture has been frozen on WOR HD for about two minutes and they were over-lapping the spanish radio and John and Suzyn radio call over a static frozen picture, not even a card that says Techinical Difficulties. That's how I heard the Beltre homer. Hearing both radio calls, at the same time. Pretty funny. Nice going Igawa. I thought we talked about the need for length tonight, dummy.
2007-05-04 17:01:02
87.   claybeez
76 I believe that each team should have to set up a baseball academy in the city they reside in. I believe LA has had one for decades and a number of players came out of it. In D.C. that was part of the stadium deal. The city council required an academy be formed before passing the bill.

As rich as these guys (players and owners) are what would it take to invest in a few multi-park fields in each city? Maybe make an investment (even just public support) in urban little leagues. It would be a nice way to give back.

2007-05-04 17:01:13
88.   BklynBmr
No offense to any Yankee that's on the mound on any given night, but unless we ring up 8-10 runs every night things are going to be dicey for the foreseeable future...
2007-05-04 17:01:32
89.   JimCobain
[86} same thing was happening to me on WOR HD. Both radio calls had me and wife chuckling over here.
2007-05-04 17:02:57
90.   Zack
Two bad pitches by Igawa tonight? Or has he been shakey overall? Seems like a tough hit for Ichiro, and a bad pitch to beltre..hopw about the other hr?
2007-05-04 17:04:16
91.   claybeez
76 OK. They can count him too if they count darker complected, red-haired, freckle faced African-Americans who work as doctors, teachers, bus drivers or whatever else. Claim 1, claim them all.

Off to eat.

2007-05-04 17:05:00
92.   JimCobain
86 Alex is your HD picture at 16x9? Mine is chillin at 4:3 but the sound is back to the My 9 guys.
2007-05-04 17:05:24
93.   RIYank
90 That one was crushed, absolutely crushed. And then the next out was a looooong fly, too.
2007-05-04 17:05:29
94.   Jim Dean
86 He has only thrown 40 piches though 3, and no BB's.
2007-05-04 17:05:54
95.   Max Nomad
90 He looks like a No. 4 tonight.
2007-05-04 17:06:18
96.   RIYank
Good, we're going to destroy their bullpen after all.
2007-05-04 17:08:40
97.   BklynBmr
91 Blood is blood, lad. Barak O'Bama is in the fold, too...
2007-05-04 17:10:21
98.   rabid stan
Robbie hate walk. Robbie swing. Roawr
2007-05-04 17:10:49
99.   RIYank
Dang it. No more runs, and didn't knock Baek from the hill, either. Cano and Cabrera lete me down.
2007-05-04 17:12:19
100.   Max Nomad
97 And he's truly African-American. Dad is African, Mom is American.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-05-04 17:15:14
101.   Max Nomad
Jeter should get an error there.
2007-05-04 17:15:18
102.   rabid stan
Jeter could have thrown that with a little les arc.
2007-05-04 17:15:20
103.   Zack
What a lame ass double...
2007-05-04 17:16:00
104.   BklynBmr
100 In a rational world, that would be the standard for the hyphenation.
2007-05-04 17:16:22
105.   LI yankee
Don't see too many lackadaisical plays like that from Jeter
2007-05-04 17:16:37
106.   randym77
Matsui should have called him off. But he's probably exhausted, with all the fly balls to left tonight.
2007-05-04 17:16:53
107.   rabid stan
Igawa buys a call
2007-05-04 17:17:08
108.   OldYanksFan
Did you guys catch Manny? That's about as bad as I'ver ever seen. He's gonna get beaned in Seattle.
2007-05-04 17:17:49
109.   rabid stan
105 That looked like a Johnny Damon throw.
2007-05-04 17:17:54
110.   BklynBmr
106 Same thought. Mats coulda/shoulda charged that...
2007-05-04 17:18:05
111.   LI yankee
108 Yeah, I find it funny though that Kay would charge him.
2007-05-04 17:18:41
112.   OldYanksFan
Jetes was ruuning full out. Mats is smart enough not to crash into Derek.
2007-05-04 17:20:32
113.   Zack
Man, were those the two lamest doubles in a row...
2007-05-04 17:20:41
114.   rabid stan
Worst. Doubles. Ever.
2007-05-04 17:20:53
115.   BklynBmr
108 That's what the Seattle broadcasters were saying in pre-game. Color guy is Mike Blowers, who wondered why the next guy wasn't drilled or if they're saving it for the next time they see Manny...
2007-05-04 17:20:55
116.   rabid stan
2 Get the box.
2007-05-04 17:21:26
117.   Max Nomad
I really think that the slap that Jeter put on the ball after it dropped gave the runner 2nd.
2007-05-04 17:21:35
118.   Zack
Crud, that was lame...
2007-05-04 17:21:45
119.   OldYanksFan
There goes our #4.
2007-05-04 17:22:09
120.   randym77
If Matsui had called Jeter off, he'd have stopped. I've seen similar plays where the OFer called Jeter off, and Jeter gave way.
2007-05-04 17:23:03
121.   Zack
Seattle gets to Dice K and Igawa two days in a row
2007-05-04 17:23:43
122.   BklynBmr
112 Have to see it again, but I thought Jetes wasn't even looking up over his shoulder. Mats has to make that call...
2007-05-04 17:23:44
123.   Max Nomad
120 Doesnt matter. Jeter had the ball and hand-punted it away.
2007-05-04 17:23:45
124.   Alex Belth
Dude that was a B O M B.

Also, the umps are quick to get in there. That warning is too rash. Man, the Yanks haven't gotten into a brawl in a long time. With Jose Guillen on the other side, you never know...Will Ichiro steal one or two bases?

2007-05-04 17:23:46
125.   murphy
i find it very amusing that leiter is talking about the technique involved in throwing at hitters.
2007-05-04 17:24:01
126.   Alex Belth
Dude that was a B O M B.

Also, the umps are quick to get in there. That warning is too rash. Man, the Yanks haven't gotten into a brawl in a long time. With Jose Guillen on the other side, you never know...Will Ichiro steal one or two bases?

2007-05-04 17:24:29
127.   Zack
Man, Igawa just fell apart with two outs...
2007-05-04 17:25:24
128.   murphy
a yankees brawl? stranger things have happened. for example: colter bean still being on the 25-man roster.
2007-05-04 17:26:27
129.   Zack
If Iggy gets out of the inning, does he come out for the 5th?
2007-05-04 17:26:37
130.   randym77
Bean is warming.

I think Igawa just got flustered after that home run. He seems to be back on track now.

2007-05-04 17:28:13
131.   BklynBmr
121 $110+ million dollars worth of appendages that don't work as advertised.
2007-05-04 17:28:18
132.   LI yankee
129 He should. But knowing Joe, probably not.
2007-05-04 17:28:20
133.   rabid stan
129 He's at 71 pitches, bullpen burnt from yesterday. Send him out there.
2007-05-04 17:28:33
134.   OldYanksFan
Damn. At 5-0, I put this one in the bank. Can Giambi PH?
2007-05-04 17:30:15
135.   Jim Dean
131 110? More like $150 million.
2007-05-04 17:30:27
136.   rabid stan
Doug Mgvrbhvdafib: Rally Starter.
2007-05-04 17:31:00
137.   LI yankee
Man, Kay wants to see some action.
2007-05-04 17:31:11
138.   rabid stan
Who has the better line, Douggie or Sexson? I bet it's close.
2007-05-04 17:31:44
139.   randym77
Minky goes the other way...
2007-05-04 17:32:20
140.   BklynBmr
135 That's why the '+' sign. Too p*ssed to go look it up right now...
2007-05-04 17:33:51
141.   RIYank
Two outfield line drives for Jetes, no results.
2007-05-04 17:35:12
142.   Zack
Wow, pulling the pitcher in the 4th...good for us
2007-05-04 17:35:18
143.   rabid stan
And Seattle wins the bullpen dash.
2007-05-04 17:35:45
144.   Max Nomad
142 I wonder if Hargrove and Torre went to school together.
2007-05-04 17:36:26
145.   Mattpat11
Jesus Christ. I talked to my dad half an hour ago and we were winning 5-1. What the hell happened?
2007-05-04 17:40:21
146.   BklynBmr
145 Torre left a few pitches over the plate again...
2007-05-04 17:41:32
147.   rabid stan
Fearless prediction: Not to be outdone by Mike Hargrove, Joe Torre hooks Igawa with two outs in the fifth inning to bring Mike Myers to face The Dangerous Richie Sexson. Sexson homers.
2007-05-04 17:42:34
148.   Mattpat11
146 I see. Damn that Torre masquerading as a small Japanese man. DAMN HIM TO HELL.
2007-05-04 17:43:53
149.   rabid stan
148 He's very crafty.
2007-05-04 17:44:08
150.   JeremyM
146 I hope Torre can get some runs here.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-05-04 17:44:34
151.   JimCobain
2007-05-04 17:45:07
152.   Zack
A-God strikes again!
2007-05-04 17:45:29
153.   Mattpat11
I'm trying to follow this in sportsline. It appears A-Rod hit a two run double and then time stopped. Can anyone confirm this?
2007-05-04 17:45:49
154.   DougP
Awesome! Funny how excited Larry Bowa looked in waiving Abreu home.
2007-05-04 17:46:08
155.   randym77
Heh. Minky the rally-starter, indeed.
2007-05-04 17:46:20
156.   JeremyM
153 My sportsline shows the Mariners have only 4, but time is still moving.
2007-05-04 17:46:30
157.   BklynBmr
148 Sh*t. He does it all the time. Tomorrow he'll be Taiwanese. It goes on and on...
2007-05-04 17:47:41
158.   Mattpat11
156I'll trade you.
2007-05-04 17:47:52
159.   RIYank
153 Pitching change = time stops.
2007-05-04 17:48:26
160.   RIYank
That's it, a two run lead. We're safe. No way we can lose this one.
2007-05-04 17:48:31
161.   BklynBmr
150 Ask and ye shall receive...
2007-05-04 17:49:15
162.   Mattpat11
But there wasn't a pitching change. The Irishman pitched to Matsui, didn't he?
2007-05-04 17:51:18
163.   Zack
162 What tipped you off to his heritage?
2007-05-04 17:51:57
164.   Mattpat11
2007-05-04 17:54:35
165.   BklynBmr
162 Irishman? Last time I looked Walla Walla, WA is in the United States.
2007-05-04 17:54:40
166.   Mattpat11
163 I'm just upset his name isn't Liam or Connor or something.
2007-05-04 17:55:26
167.   Mattpat11
162 I'll i see is "O'Flaherty"
2007-05-04 17:55:59
168.   Zack
Looks liek Igawa is one of those hot and cold guys, eh?

Back into the doghouse...

2007-05-04 17:56:05
169.   RIYank
162 Oh yeah, you're right.

Hoooooo boy. Somebody say something humorous about going to our bullpen again. Otherwise it gets kind of depressing.

2007-05-04 17:56:23
170.   Max Nomad
Unleash the Torre Haters.
2007-05-04 17:56:29
171.   Mattpat11
Because I was at the Nationals game on Saturday and unable to comment on his good outing, I will bite my toungue on my opinion of Kei Igawa for now.
2007-05-04 17:57:22
172.   RIYank
Yay! Colter Bean!
2007-05-04 17:57:44
173.   Simone
This is ridiculous. This reminds me Jose Contreras who gave back every run that the Yankees scored the inning after.
2007-05-04 17:58:59
174.   RIYank
Boo, Colter Bean!
2007-05-04 17:59:12
175.   randym77
C'mon, Beaner, or you'll be setting a record in Scranton like you did in Columbus.
2007-05-04 18:00:15
176.   DougP
"Hello, strike zone? Colter Bean calling. Where are you?"
2007-05-04 18:00:39
177.   OldYanksFan
Anybody want Torre's job?
2007-05-04 18:00:39
178.   Mattpat11
Okay, that's long enough.

I hate this signing.

So very, very much.

I remember reading on sportsline that one of the nicest things the AL executives had to say about him was "he isn't very good"

2007-05-04 18:00:47
179.   bartap74
Bean looking to challenge Jenna Jameson's record for consecutive balls.
2007-05-04 18:01:22
180.   randym77
Did he just walk two batters on eight balls in a row?
2007-05-04 18:01:52
181.   Mattpat11
And I'm willing to say Colter Bean sucks, because everytime I do, he does something good.

Colter Bean sucks.

2007-05-04 18:02:03
182.   RIYank
Water torture.
2007-05-04 18:02:03
183.   Max
It's one thing for the AA call-ups to be stinking up the joint, or guys like Pavano. But it blows my mind how bad Igawa has been, that flukey Red Sox outing notwithstanding. We paid good money for this?

When you're longing for Ted Lilly or Gil Meche, you know things are bad.

2007-05-04 18:02:19
184.   randym77
Shoulda left Igawa in.
2007-05-04 18:02:23
185.   Simone
I remember when people were crying for Colter Bean to get his chance.
2007-05-04 18:03:24
186.   Simone
Gil Meche rules! Should have signed Gil Meche.
2007-05-04 18:03:24
187.   OldYanksFan
I'm scared to watch.
2007-05-04 18:03:40
188.   vockins
Well, Bean in the 25 man was nice while it lasted.
2007-05-04 18:04:25
189.   BklynBmr
185 Isn't there a Web site, ''?
2007-05-04 18:04:28
190.   Eirias
Damn Jorge Torre!
2007-05-04 18:04:51
191.   JimCobain
this has the makings of a 15-14 Yankees Classic... I hope...
2007-05-04 18:04:53
192.   RIYank
181 Nice try.
2007-05-04 18:04:55
193.   randym77
Gawd, this is ugly.
2007-05-04 18:05:00
194.   Mattpat11
188 And I wonder why no one wanted him. Its a MYSTERY.
2007-05-04 18:05:06
195.   Eirias
Crap, submitted 50 comments too late. Ignore the above comment.
2007-05-04 18:05:31
196.   BklynBmr
Yank him. Now...
2007-05-04 18:05:42
197.   Simone
Oh yeah, where are all the Colter Bean lovers now? No wonder the Yankees were reluctant to promote this guy. He sucks.
2007-05-04 18:05:44
198.   RIYank
188 No it wasn't, not really. It just seemed like it.
2007-05-04 18:05:45
199.   Max Nomad
I've seen this game before, at Tampa Bay.
2007-05-04 18:06:21
200.   vockins
194 Dude had something going on. I bought the shirt!
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-05-04 18:06:30
201.   OldYanksFan
JD misread that. Could he have had that?
2007-05-04 18:07:02
202.   Simone
189 Evidence of how fans embarrass themselves when they think they know more than the Yankee and MLB's scouts who see these guys every day.
2007-05-04 18:07:07
203.   claybeez
Igawa and Beans. Now, there's a recipe for disaster.
2007-05-04 18:07:09
204.   vockins
197 Whatever, Mr./Mrs. "Pavano needs our support"
2007-05-04 18:07:49
205.   OldYanksFan
Is Mo available tonight? This is a Bruney situation.
2007-05-04 18:08:00
206.   DougP
184 Igawa had nothing. It was the right move to take him out.
2007-05-04 18:08:02
207.   randym77
Crowd cheers wildly when Bean even gets a strike. They cheer Torre when he comes out to get the kid, and boo Bean off the field.

He can't be that bad. Seems like whenever he gets a shot, he's awful. Like, more awful than any AAA pitcher should possibly be.

I dunno, maybe the stress gets to him or something.

2007-05-04 18:08:27
208.   Mattpat11
I think Colter Bean could walk me.
2007-05-04 18:08:41
209.   BklynBmr
202 Well said.
2007-05-04 18:09:13
210.   claybeez
207 My thoughts exactly.
2007-05-04 18:10:17
211.   Mattpat11
207 Seven major league innings, nine walks.

I think he CAN be that bad. I think there's a reason he's 30 and in AAA. i think there's a reason he's cleared waivers and been returned to us on several occasions.

2007-05-04 18:11:26
212.   marc
I've seen road kill look better than this
2007-05-04 18:11:38
213.   claybeez
Wouldn't be surprised to see Villone up tomorrow.
2007-05-04 18:12:18
214.   Yu-Hsing Chen
This shit is unwatchable arrragh. screw you 1 good outting 1 horrible outting Igawa
2007-05-04 18:12:21
215.   claybeez
Hell of a stop. Now, I have to admit Phelps couldn't have done that.
2007-05-04 18:12:35
216.   Max Nomad
211 In AAA he walked a lot but K'ed a TON, and lotsa saves. But funky arm movements can do that to AAA hitters.

Leiter calls Ichiro "Itchiro"

2007-05-04 18:12:45
217.   Mattpat11
I'll say it again. i got shouted down last time. Could working out and possibly getting down to the size of a small foreign car possibly HURT at this point? Maybe if he looks like he gives a damn the Royals or someone will take a flyer on him and he'll stick by virtue of being just as bad as everyone else.
2007-05-04 18:12:53
218.   OldYanksFan
Do the Mariners get THREE outs this inning?
2007-05-04 18:13:05
219.   randym77
201 I don't know if Damon could have gotten that. He did get a bad jump, but it was well out of his reach.
2007-05-04 18:13:41
220.   claybeez
This whole series could be like this. Pick up Yanks and M's (hitters) for your fantasy rosters.
2007-05-04 18:13:52
221.   Yu-Hsing Chen
can we just forfiet this shit so we might actually have someone alive in the bullpen tomorrow?
2007-05-04 18:13:59
222.   Max Nomad
Anyone hear that little kid cheering Let's Go Yan-kees all by himself?
2007-05-04 18:14:03
223.   Mattpat11
216 Is Gerald Williams still in AAA? I think he might be. Thats why someone's AAA stats at 30 never impress me. Same with Andy Phillips.
2007-05-04 18:14:41
224.   Joe H
Mercy rule?
2007-05-04 18:15:18
225.   BklynBmr
I'd like to edit my earlier post 88 to make that 18-25 runs instead. Can I do that? Thanks in advance...
2007-05-04 18:15:27
226.   Zack
Wow, remind me not to tune out anymore, yuck...Its amazing, out pitching staff can make the seattle mariners look like, well, our offense!
2007-05-04 18:15:45
227.   Max
Well, I thought our offense might have a shot at coming back from 14-8, or even 16-8. 20-8, that might be a stretch at the rate this is going.

An out!

2007-05-04 18:15:53
228.   OldYanksFan
An out? That guy just got demoted to the minors.
2007-05-04 18:16:26
229.   JeremyM
They shoud've kept Britton, he had success last year in the East and was pitching very well in AAA. Granted, this is hindsight.

I think if Rasner pitches well Sunday, then Igawa should be the one optioned down.

2007-05-04 18:16:55
230.   Max Nomad
224 Remember Indians 22-0? Didn't get it then...
2007-05-04 18:17:08
231.   randym77
Vizcaino's been a disappointment, too.

Remember when they were talking about making Villone a starter last year? Maybe they should consider it this year.

2007-05-04 18:17:13
232.   Simone
Remind me of the time when the Yankees had genuinely good relievers. Not the bad inconsistent guys that we like to pretend that they good. Guys who could actually get the job done. Who since Mo used to set up for Wetteland?
2007-05-04 18:18:05
233.   RIYank
232 Flash.
2007-05-04 18:18:11
234.   BklynBmr
To date, this is this season's official 'Inning From Hell'. Chase Wright, take heart...
2007-05-04 18:19:10
235.   Mattpat11
232 Tom Gordon
2007-05-04 18:19:22
236.   Zack
yeah Mattpatt, because being in shape is really essential for a pitcher. Ask Wells, Valenzuela, Fernandez, El Guapo, David Weathers, Curt Schilling, and on and on and on.

You know, just like yesterday with the Sosa beaning, maybe you should think about what you post sometimes...

2007-05-04 18:19:30
237.   RIYank
I think I'm done for the evening, folks. This would probably be kind of enjoyable if we were on the other side of it, but it's cruddy baseball and we're losing.

Here's hoping Jetes gets his hit tonight, and that we beat the daylights out of them tomorrow.

2007-05-04 18:19:35
238.   randym77
This bullpen is making Igawa look good.

Shoulda left Igawa in. He's inconsistent, and we have to expect that. But I prefer inconsistent to consistently bad.

2007-05-04 18:20:27
239.   Simone
They could break a record tonight.
2007-05-04 18:21:10
240.   bartap74
This looks like a video game.
2007-05-04 18:21:22
241.   Zack
Wow, Viz sucks, maybe Torre will stop his man love for him finally. Nah, probably not.

And you can't demote Igawa after this start, its just like last time. Hes inconsistant at this point, so is Dice-K, should the Sox demote him too?

2007-05-04 18:21:41
242.   bartap74
Maybe this is why Torre shouldn't have used 6 pitchers in the nitecap yesterday.
2007-05-04 18:21:50
243.   Mattpat11
236 And being a a big, heavy man works for guys like Wells and Schilling and Colon.

Colter Bean is a big fat ass that sucks every time he's brought up. Maybe its time for him to try something new.

2007-05-04 18:22:00
244.   Max Nomad
232 I think we have a great 'pen, and conversely, Boston's is so-so, numbers be damned. But when starters don't go long even Goose Gossage can't stop the flow. Hell not even Mike Marshall with our starters lately.
2007-05-04 18:22:49
245.   Simone
233 235 Tom Gordon wasn't bad at all.
2007-05-04 18:23:23
246.   OldYanksFan
Man... We rag on Torre, but how would YOU like to be witnessing this from the dugout?

Am I imagining it or does Damon look spastic coming in on fly balls?

2007-05-04 18:24:15
247.   JeremyM
241 If Rasner pitches well, then I say he should get the nod over Igawa, since it's already been determined that Desalvo is staying up.
2007-05-04 18:24:20
248.   Max Nomad
246 Yep, spastic.
2007-05-04 18:24:27
249.   DougP
The big question now is do they make room for DeSalvo on the 40 man by DFAing Colter Bean?
2007-05-04 18:24:28
250.   Mattpat11
245 You asked for the last genuinely good reliever. It was probably Tom Gordon.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2007-05-04 18:24:45
251.   BklynBmr
Get ready for another Yankeeography, folks. Six runs in five ups is no big thing.

Unless we have to pitch to them again...

2007-05-04 18:25:07
252.   Max Nomad
Big inning here. They've got good late inning relievers, so nows the time to score.
2007-05-04 18:25:30
253.   Zack
And being a bigger guy works for Bean too. I know you refuse to believe that AAA #s correspond to the majors because your blind rage gets in the way, but given enough innings, im sure you would see Bean's #s level out. He sucked today. But so did all our other pitchers, one of those nights.

A grand total of 8 major league inning sure is enough to tell how a guy is. Yup, nothing like a small sample size and a feeling about a guy's physical appearance to make your decision.

2007-05-04 18:25:45
254.   Max
241 Zack, as inconsistent as Dice-K has been, he has not hit rock bottom and continued to bounce off of it the way Igawa has. This start and the start against Tampa Bay were two of the most dreadful starts I've seen from a Yankee pitcher with significant run support behind him.

Is it really that hard to throw strikes with a lead against sub-.200 hitters?

2007-05-04 18:27:40
255.   JeremyM
254 I agree. His ERA is over 7, he was great on Saturday but his ERA is still over 7. He was a terrible signing by Cashman.
2007-05-04 18:30:03
256.   Zack
Im not syaing Bean is amazing or anything, just that he can be ok and your attack on his physical appearance is just stupid
2007-05-04 18:30:06
257.   Mattpat11
253 Yeah its really working for him.

7 major league innings and 17 baserunners. Go, Colter, Go. Clearly I and all 30 teams that wanted no part of you are horribly misguided. After all, you can get AAA hitters out. The has beens and never will bes of baseball.

2007-05-04 18:30:55
258.   OldYanksFan
Man,,, Melkdud has a .520 OPS. Even Scrabble is at .570+
2007-05-04 18:32:05
259.   OldYanksFan
There are times Jetes NEEDS to try and yank one down the LF line. This is one of those times.
2007-05-04 18:32:51
260.   Zack
How has Igawa hit rock bottom? He has pitched well thrice and badly thrice; Tonight's start was up and down, I would hardly call them the most dredful starts; have you a) seen the other guys pitch this year b) seen some starts by Weaver, Javy, RJ etc in the past? There's nothing like rushing to judgement and calling it a terrible signing a start after pitching 6 shut out innings, way to be rational guys.
2007-05-04 18:34:25
261.   Mattpat11
260 I guess this is one of those games you need to see. Because i certainly don't see how it was "up and down" It appears to have gone steadily downhill.
2007-05-04 18:34:29
262.   OldYanksFan
Was Iggy throwing his curveball tonight? Were they hitting all his pitches, or one in particular?
2007-05-04 18:35:26
263.   Zack
Dude, 7 innings. Thats like judging a starter on their first start. It doesn't work that way. I'm fine with people not liking Bean, and he sucked ass tonight. But the repeated declarations that he sucks b/c hes fat and that players can't contribute if they have been in AAA for too long is, well, dumb. The angels built a dominant BP out of those guys.
2007-05-04 18:37:04
264.   randym77
260 Mike P. said that is Igawa. He's hot and cold. Great one night, horrible the next.

Which is okay. Better than horrible all the time. Keep him as an innings eater and sometime starter.

2007-05-04 18:37:18
265.   Zack
I guess our whole BP should be sent down as well, since they have been so effective tongiht too. Its just one of those nights, they happen
2007-05-04 18:37:50
266.   Simone
236 Bean's ERA is 12. He isn't okay. His performance is indefensible. If he could be okay, the Yankees wouldn't be stuck with him.
2007-05-04 18:38:16
267.   Mattpat11
and I think trying to justify his line of 30.2 innings pitched (Over Six games!) 35 hits, 26 ER 8 HR (!) and 14 BB with "well look what he did against Boston!" is far less rational then saying this isn't in any way working.
2007-05-04 18:38:56
268.   Yu-Hsing Chen
At least Melky is slowly climbing back and 22, Scarrble is hopeless.

The only comfort is that we'll be up against Jeff BP Weaver tomorrow , Wang should be able to go 9 against him.

2007-05-04 18:39:17
269.   DougP
It's way too early to give up on Igawa. I was at last Saturday's game and he was lights out against the Red Sox. Clearly he's got talent -- he just needs to harness it and be more consistent from start to start. Maybe they should consider sending him to SWB for a few weeks to work on that.
2007-05-04 18:39:51
270.   Mattpat11
264 Doesn't an innings eater, be definition, eat up innings?
2007-05-04 18:40:12
271.   Simone
Abreu has starting again so that is good as well.

265 Excluding Mo, the whole Yankees' bullpen should be left on the island to fend for themselves against the Others.

2007-05-04 18:40:15
272.   bartap74
268 The only was a Yankee starter goes 9 this season is if Joe is tied to a chair in the clubhouse.
2007-05-04 18:40:35
273.   Simone
Abreu has starting to hit again so that is good as well.

265 Excluding Mo, the whole Yankees' bullpen should be left on the island to fend for themselves against the Others.

2007-05-04 18:40:53
274.   Zack
I fail to see how three good and three bad starts =in no way working. I guess our whole pitching staff is in no way working and should all be sent down. Period. Because theres no hope.

Bean's got an ERA of 12 in 3 innings this year. he had an era of 0 coming in. Ergo, today shot is ERA up just a bit. I'd say that one bad inning shouldn't do you in, but what do I know.

2007-05-04 18:41:31
275.   Mattpat11
265 Vizcaino has been ineffective all year. He's really no good.
2007-05-04 18:42:14
276.   Yu-Hsing Chen
What is this? a scoreless inning? what is that?
2007-05-04 18:42:39
277.   Zack
269 Don't bother. it was a terrible signing, its been decided by the GM's and talent evaluators here, he has no talent and can't pitch well ever.

I'm off to dinner, looks like a sweep at Texas can't fix all our problems, hopefulyl Jeff Weaver and Wang can...

2007-05-04 18:43:57
278.   randym77
269 I'm not giving up on him, but I'm lowering my expectations. I doubt a few weeks in SWB will fix his consistency problems, when he's had them his whole career, and he's 27.
2007-05-04 18:45:44
279.   yankz
Christ, I just got back from Spiderman 3, and am greeted to an 8 run inning? Who's this on?
2007-05-04 18:46:18
280.   yankz
Wow, all this offense and no hits from Jeter?
2007-05-04 18:46:21
281.   BklynBmr
3 hits so far tonight for Bobby. Who bagged on Torre for that move?
2007-05-04 18:46:49
282.   yankz
Also great to see Abreu having a good day.
2007-05-04 18:47:06
283.   DougP
278 I don't profess to have any knowledge of how Igawa pitched in Japan, but how did he win several strikeout titles if he threw up a clunker every other start?
2007-05-04 18:48:37
284.   Mattpat11
274 In one of his "good starts" he went 5.1 innings of three run ball. His good outings have been

He doesn't give us length. He doesn't give us quality. He has NO command. Adding up the walks, wild pitches and hit batters, it has to be near twenty. he gives up homers like they're going out of style. he was projected to be a back end starter at best. We paid 45 million dollars for AL EFFING LEITER. And not even Al Leiter 2000. Al Leiter 2005.

2007-05-04 18:49:39
285.   Max
278 And despite the tone of my previous comments, I'm not "giving up" on him either or declaring he has "no talent". I do wonder, though, about $46 million for what appears to be a middle reliever with flashes of brilliance, who is just as likely to fall off a cliff.

I really want to be wrong and find that this guy overcomes his problems and becomes a key part of the rotation. But Zack's comparison to horrid outings by Javy and Weaver and RJ are telling, and not exactly flattering as comparisons.

2007-05-04 18:51:10
286.   Mattpat11
Some people think if we all just patiently wait for him to live up to his potential of a 5th starter it will be all better.

I'm literally shaking with anticipation.

2007-05-04 18:53:45
287.   Max Nomad
286 You've mentioned before that you like this dead horse.
2007-05-04 18:54:27
288.   randym77
283 It sounds like he had a couple of good years, early in his career.

From Wikipedia:

In 2003, the Tigers won the Central League pennant. Igawa made a great contribution with his brilliant performance. He pitched very well and finished with a 20-5 record, a 2.80 ERA, and was third with 179 strikeouts. He was named to the Best Nine, won the MVP in the Central League and also won the Sawamura Award, the Japanese equivalent of the MLB Cy Young Award.

Igawa saw a decline in performance in 2004 and 2005. In 2004, despite leading the league at 228 strikeouts, he went 14-11 with a 3.73 ERA. In 2005, Igawa went 13-9 with a 3.86 ERA, fifth among his team's starters in ERA, and was briefly exiled to the minors. He was only tied for fifth in strikeouts (down significantly to 145) and 10th in ERA, but was still third in the circuit in victories. While still a productive hurler, Igawa became a target of enthusiastic fan criticism due to his inability to perform at his prior level.

2007-05-04 18:54:37
289.   yankz
In Torre's defense, Sexson is usually weaker vs lefties...
2007-05-04 18:54:51
290.   Mattpat11
2007-05-04 18:56:54
291.   yankz
Every single pitcher today (for both teams) has given up at least 1 ER.
2007-05-04 18:56:56
292.   mikeplugh
That's Kei Igawa. In Japan it would be one outing of 1 or 2 runs, and one of 4 or 5. In the States a good outing is 3-4 runs and a bad one is 6 to 8. That's the difference between Japan and the Majors. If he pitches that way, his ERA should finish somewhere in the high 4s. At this point he hasn't learned a damn thing despite commenting to the Japanese press every time he's been pasted that he's "studying" and that it's been a "learning experience". His main problem is pitching up in the zone with a shit fastball. If he stops doing that, he may be okay. If he doesn't, he's finished.
2007-05-04 18:57:22
293.   Max Nomad
290 Dude, it's the fucking Yankees. The only thing that's important is actual salary and luxury tax. I'd like to see him as the bullpen long guy, but he's in the rotation because there is no choice for the team. And when a guy hasa shown he CAN be good, you have to start him instead of a guy who has never pitched in MLB before.
2007-05-04 18:59:23
294.   yankz
Christ, Cano.
2007-05-04 18:59:43
295.   Mattpat11
293 I don't care if its the Yankees. I thought the days of the Yankees pissing away money on someone because the Red Sox got a shiney new toy was supposed to end with Brian Cashman.
2007-05-04 19:01:57
296.   Max Nomad
Well, Torre freed Phelps
2007-05-04 19:03:27
297.   Mattpat11
eh. Its just one game. We need to take the next three though.
2007-05-04 19:03:28
298.   randym77
I'm still wishing we left Igawa in longer, instead of going to Beancaino.
2007-05-04 19:03:36
299.   Max
Josh Phelps sighting!
2007-05-04 19:03:48
300.   DougP
295 It's a sunk cost now. What do you want them to do, cut him loose?
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2007-05-04 19:04:33
301.   Max Nomad
Heloooooo closer game
2007-05-04 19:04:41
302.   DougP
2007-05-04 19:05:22
303.   Max Nomad
Crowd is back
2007-05-04 19:05:33
304.   DougP
Cashman should make Damon's chiropacter the new team physician.
2007-05-04 19:06:05
305.   Mattpat11
300 I don't know. I'd have liked someone to have put some thought into this and not painted us into the corner, but I have no idea where they go from here.
2007-05-04 19:06:09
306.   Max
When Phelps is in, good things happen.
2007-05-04 19:06:27
307.   yankz
You gotta have heart...
2007-05-04 19:06:37
308.   yankz
Ouch, streak over for the Captain?
2007-05-04 19:06:41
309.   Simone
279 How was Spiderman 3?
2007-05-04 19:06:41
310.   Mattpat11
Well, the game is back within reach.
2007-05-04 19:07:12
311.   Max Nomad
305 I'd keep him in the 'pen. He's also got great trade value because he's young and his contract is cheap. But let's not go crazy here.
2007-05-04 19:07:39
312.   DougP
305 I'd like to see them come up with a real plan, rather than just run him out there every 5 days. Surely there's some pitching coach somewhere that can work with him.
2007-05-04 19:10:15
313.   Mattpat11
312 Only so much you can polish a turd.
2007-05-04 19:10:22
314.   Max Nomad
Leiter said something interesting on Myers earlier. Said that Guidry moved him on the rubber so he could get righties. Screw him for lefties? I hear they're batting over .300.
2007-05-04 19:10:51
315.   yankz
309 The most ridiculous, over-the-top movie ever. I'd say it was worth it just for the laughs: Venom/Spidey is kind of an emo bitch, Aunt May never STFU, and the like. Watching in a NYC crowd is freaking great- people were cracking jokes the entire time and laughing at the absurdity on screen.
2007-05-04 19:11:16
316.   Mattpat11
I'm gonna go see Spidey in an hour, so don't give anything away.
2007-05-04 19:11:22
317.   randym77
312 Yeah, and he's probably in St. Louis. The "Pitcher Whisperer" who turned Jeff Weaver into an ace can probably make Igawa into a stud.
2007-05-04 19:11:41
318.   Max Nomad
Such an arm on Arod
2007-05-04 19:12:39
319.   yankz
316 All right. If you're anything like me, expect a few laughs.
2007-05-04 19:12:40
320.   Mattpat11
317 Jeff Weaver turned into an ace?
2007-05-04 19:13:37
321.   Max Nomad
320 For about 3 playoff games.
2007-05-04 19:14:24
322.   Mattpat11
321 I see.
2007-05-04 19:14:25
323.   Mattpat11
321 I see.
2007-05-04 19:14:42
324.   Simone
315 Thanks for helping me save some cash.
2007-05-04 19:14:55
325.   Jeff P
Can we make Mike Myers the fifth starter?
2007-05-04 19:15:25
326.   DougP
Don't jinx anything. We don't want Jeff Weaver to be an ace tomorrow.
2007-05-04 19:15:36
327.   Mattpat11
324 I'll be back with my report tomorrow. And I hate everything. So if I like it, its probably okay.
2007-05-04 19:15:58
328.   yankz
Yanks gotta bat around so Jeter can win the game in the last AB, Dimaggio style!
2007-05-04 19:18:11
329.   DougP
327 I think we know that you hate everything!
2007-05-04 19:20:07
330.   Mattpat11
329 Its easier than getting your hopes up.
2007-05-04 19:20:07
331.   Emma Span
I don't know if this will make you guys feel any better, but I enjoyed it -- Julio Franco just set another new record as the oldest player ever to hit a major league league home run... off our old buddy Randy Johnson.
2007-05-04 19:21:05
332.   Max Nomad
Happy to see Myers still in there
2007-05-04 19:22:04
333.   yankz
Imagine this scenario: The first two batters get out, the next three get on, and then Jeter hits a GS to tie it.
2007-05-04 19:22:06
334.   randym77
331 LOL! Did it set a record for oldest batter and pitcher combined, too? ;-)
2007-05-04 19:22:31
335.   DougP
331 Could they also be the oldest tandem of a pitcher giving up a home run to a hitter?
2007-05-04 19:22:40
336.   Max Nomad
I love Arod
2007-05-04 19:23:09
337.   DougP
334 nice comment :)
2007-05-04 19:24:15
338.   Eirias
When is the last time Myers pitched four innings?
2007-05-04 19:24:41
339.   Max Nomad
Myers just outpitched Igawa. Rotation? :P
2007-05-04 19:24:49
340.   DougP
Way to go Mike Myers! And Joe Torre for keeping the bullpen fresh for the rest of the series.
2007-05-04 19:25:08
341.   Max Nomad
338 He was a starter
2007-05-04 19:25:19
342.   randym77
337 Great minds. ;-)

And speaking of old friends, Mike Stanton just got out of a jam in the 10th in Cincinnati. I think he's becoming the closer there.

2007-05-04 19:26:27
343.   Eirias
341 I know, but I've forgotten how long ago that was.
2007-05-04 19:26:55
344.   Max Nomad
So far so good yankz.
2007-05-04 19:27:15
345.   Max
Amazing to be happy for any Yankee pitcher in a game where we give up 20 hits and 15 runs, but Myers gets a gold star tonight. Took one for the team.
2007-05-04 19:27:30
346.   yankz
Well so far I look psychic...
2007-05-04 19:27:55
347.   DougP
341 Al Leiter just said it was the longest outing of Mike Myers career by an inning and two-thirds.
2007-05-04 19:29:16
348.   Max Nomad
Helloooo twilight zone
2007-05-04 19:29:59
349.   Max Nomad
347 As a reliever.
2007-05-04 19:30:10
350.   Mattpat11
341 Myers never started in the majors.
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2007-05-04 19:30:26
351.   DougP
349 Ah. I missed that qualification.
2007-05-04 19:30:58
352.   Emma Span
334, 335 seems possible... they are a combined 92 years old.

Also, I forgot how funny Randy Johnson looks when he bats. Ha! I think he may be growing the mullet back out.

2007-05-04 19:31:34
353.   DougP
Giambi PH'ing for Phelps.
2007-05-04 19:31:59
354.   Mattpat11
826 games, 0 starts. It looks like they converted him before he hit Florida.
2007-05-04 19:32:16
355.   kylepetterson
Gameday is locked up per usual. What's going on?
2007-05-04 19:32:35
356.   Max Nomad
Let's go rally
2007-05-04 19:32:43
357.   Mattpat11
Sportsline says Cano walked. Something must be wrong.
2007-05-04 19:32:53
358.   yankz
Oh hell yes...keep it going...
2007-05-04 19:33:18
359.   DougP
Cano walked, Cabrera walked, now a new pitcher coming in to face Giambi.
2007-05-04 19:33:31
360.   yankz
355 Cano and Melky walked, Giambi PH for Phelps, 1 out. Pitching change? I can't tell, I'm on GameDay too. Too lazy to configure my firefox.
2007-05-04 19:33:35
361.   Max Nomad
354 Good point
2007-05-04 19:33:41
362.   yankz
It's Putz.
2007-05-04 19:34:00
363.   kylepetterson
According to Gameday Cabrera walked on 1 pitch. CLUTCH!
2007-05-04 19:34:06
364.   Max Nomad
That was a nine pitch walk
2007-05-04 19:34:48
365.   kylepetterson
364 Are you calling the new and improved Gameday a liar?
2007-05-04 19:35:04
366.   DougP
364 It was a good at-bat. He fouled off some tough pitches.
2007-05-04 19:35:26
367.   Max Nomad
Giambi dont do well with splitters...
2007-05-04 19:36:50
368.   Max Nomad
2007-05-04 19:37:05
369.   DougP
Giambi! And the tying run comes to the plate.
2007-05-04 19:37:20
370.   yankz
Boo ya! (Sorry, Stuart Scott off)
2007-05-04 19:37:25
371.   Simone
The anti-loogy Myers has finally found his purpose on this Yankee team. He is the official mop up guy.
2007-05-04 19:37:34
372.   yankz
Pete Abraham is ridiculously psychic sometimes.
2007-05-04 19:37:41
373.   kylepetterson
What happened?
2007-05-04 19:37:57
374.   yankz
It's destiny. Jeter's going to drive in the winning run.
2007-05-04 19:38:19
375.   Max Nomad
Damon hurt. Jeter up
2007-05-04 19:38:33
376.   DougP
oh no, Damon pulled a hammy.
2007-05-04 19:38:33
377.   randym77
Ugh. Damon looks like he strained something.
2007-05-04 19:38:53
378.   yankz
This is it..
2007-05-04 19:39:13
379.   Max Nomad
Oh well, at least it was exciting
2007-05-04 19:39:19
380.   yankz
2007-05-04 19:39:26
381.   dianagramr
can't blame the fired strength and conditioning guy now?
2007-05-04 19:40:14
382.   Max
You just knew it was going to end this way. Oh well, let's hope for much better this weekend.
2007-05-04 19:40:39
383.   Max Nomad
Didn't look like a hammy. More like a knee.
2007-05-04 19:40:41
384.   DougP
381 Sure we can. We can blame anyone except A-Rod.
2007-05-04 19:40:55
385.   Simone
No Marty Miller to blame for Johnny D's hammy.
2007-05-04 19:41:09
386.   randym77
Let's blame the chiropracter!
2007-05-04 19:45:39
387.   yankz
384 What???? When did we adopt that?!
2007-05-04 19:47:07
388.   OldYanksFan
Jetes loses the hitting streak and has 7 LOB.
2007-05-04 19:54:54
389.   randym77
Any word on Damon?
2007-05-04 20:01:08
390.   Jeteupthemiddle
I just wanted to pop in and say that contrary to our discussion yesterday, THIS is why Myers shouldn't be DFA'd at the moment.

He has been pitching well and in a mop up type of roll all season.

No, he hasn't been doing the LOOGY thing as one may have hoped, but he is certainly pitching effectively and we need him at the moment.

2007-05-04 20:04:15
391.   randym77
Torre says Damon is okay. He had a cramp in his calf. They think he'll be fine.
2007-05-04 20:33:03
392.   BklynBmr
Tonight brings to mind that 'ol 60s joke:

Guy #1: Hey, you see the Mets tonight? They scored 24 runs!

Guy #2: No sh*t! They win?

2007-05-04 21:08:23
393.   Max Nomad
392 Always loved that one.
2007-05-04 22:08:50
394.   Zack
So Igawa sucked today, but the BP sucked far worse (save Myers). I don't realyl see villone as the answer, and hopefully he'll just fill in until britton can come back up if Bean is sent back down as expected. I don't know what it will take for Joe to lsoe faith in Viz, but if this doesn't do it, nothing will methinks.

Now Wang NEEDS to give us about 7 innings tomorrow with Rasner and DeSalvo to follow, neither one of whom is all that economical pitch wise.

Igawa seems to have the "stuff" to be effective, but has to stop pitching up in the zone and needs to be more consistant. But is guidry really the one to fix that? I somehow don't have much confidence with him, so maybe AAA would be best for Igawa at this point, who knows.

2007-05-04 22:54:01
395.   yankz
At least they're facing Weaver tomorrow (or rather later today).
2007-05-05 00:06:27
396.   Zack
It also amazes me how quickly everyone jumps off the cashman bandwagon. Fickle, fickle indeed. Perhaps its a byproduct of the Derek jeter patented must win now at all costs philosophy, but gone is the praise for Cashman rebuilding the farm system and avoiding huge awful contracts and now is the lets rip apart cashamn for making this mess that is the Yankees. He constructed the team, signed Igawa apparently against the entire world's advice, forced Torre to use Colter Bean and Vizcaino, etc etc. I understand people want the Yanks to win AND rebuild, we all do, but its pretty hard to do both successfully.
It's very possible the Yanks will have to go through a rough year this season and will come out of it better than at any point in the last five. The question is, will Cashman survive that long to see it through? Or will the media and fans demand blood and force the Boss to fire Cashman and hire someone who will start trading minor league talent for immediate improvement? Should be interesting to watch
2007-05-05 00:44:15
397.   Vandelay Industries

I agree in part with what you wrote above. However, I am pretty sure Derek Jeter didn't patent the "must win now" philosophy. I don't think its a matter of being fickle neccessarily.

Has someone from our farm system that Cashman traded away become a big success and I missed it?

"Rebuilding" is something that is done in leagues with real salary caps. That isn't to say that trading away young talent and signing high priced free agents is an ongoing path to success. In baseball, if teams have the funds they can keep young players and go out and sign free agents to win now.

Rebuilding is simply a term used to pacify fans when you are attempting to figure out what the hell your staff is up to as an owner. I cannot recall a team that claimed to be rebuilding which ultimately reached its goals, whatever they may have been. Good teams are constantly rebuilding, moving the old out and refusing to trade top talent while signing free agents that fit into the specific team well.

The Yankees may have two pitchers in the minors that will ever start on a consistent basis. When you pick at the bottom of the draft every year, you really have to do your homework. Just look at the talent that the Devil Rays have. If you shipped off Roy Oswalt, Mariano Rivera, and Wang to the Devil Rays, they'd beat all our asses.

I guess my position is that "rebuilding" is an excuse. It is something owners can tell fans to shut them up. I would change my position if I see in my lifetime a team which claimes to be rebuilding actually succeed with the players they claim to be using to "rebuild."

The Yankees simply signed high priced free agents and havent won. Its that simple. Its not a matter of needing to rebiuld, or trading away too much talent. Winning is hard. Those Yankee teams of the late '90's weren't half as talented as this squad, but they had competitiveness and pitching. All the stars have to align at just the right moment. How have those White Sox pitchers and bullpen guys done wince winning the World Series? I always think back to the Seinfeld where Paul O'Neill has to hit two home runs to get Big Stien's birthday card back.


KRAMER: Mr. O'Neill?

O'NEILL: Yeah.

KRAMER: Yeah, uh, look, you don't know me.

O'NEILL: I can give you an autograph there, but my pen's kind of screwed up. You'd only like half a "P" or something.

KRAMER: No, it's uh, not that see,. It's about a little boy in a hospital. I was wondering if you could do something to lift his spirits.

O'NEILL: Sure, I could help you there.

KRAMER: Sure, well I promised you would hit him two home runs.

O'NEILL: Say what?

KRAMER: You know, Klick!. A couple of dingers.

O'NEILL: You promised a kid in the hospital that I would hit two home runs?

KRAMER: Yeah, well, no good?

O'NEILL: Yeah. That's no good. It's terrible. You don't hit home runs like that. It's hard to hit home runs. And where the heck did you get two from?

KRAMER: Two is better than one.

O'NEILL: That, that's ridiculous. I'm not a home run hitter.

KRAMER: Well, Babe Ruth did it.

O'NEILL: He did not.

KRAMER: Oh, do you say that Babe Ruth is a liar?

O'NEILL: I'm not calling him a liar but he was not stupid enough to promise two.

KRAMER: Well, maybe I did overextend myself.

O'NEILL: How the heck did you get in here anyway?


Yes, winning is hard.

No one that Cashman traded is heading for an MVP, Cy Young or ROY anytime soon. The Yankees dont need to rebuild. They just need to take the salary down a notch, give some young guys a shot, and hope for the best.

2007-05-05 00:51:37
398.   Vandelay Industries
Has a team ever scored 1000 runs and missed the playoffs?
2007-05-05 03:25:17
399.   randym77
396 I saw it coming. It's all part of what Paul O'Neill called the "American Idol" atmosphere.

That used to be something that drove me nuts about the Yankees. But these days...I kind of understand it. Ordinarily, I would be willing to put up with a "rebuilding year." Or two. But I think there's a feeling now that Steinbrenner might not be around for too many more seasons. These days, there's a very good reason to "win now."

2007-05-05 05:16:01
400.   manila boy
399 But there's no guarantee that stocking your team with high-priced free agents will allow you to "win now." The first half of this decade showed that it doesn't guarantee success. Plus it gutted the farm, an error that is just recently being fixed.

On the bright side, a team with the Yanks' resources can compete and grow the farm at the same time. A strong farm system plus smart spending will make this team a powerhouse for a long while.

396 Agree about the turnabout on Cashman. It comes with the bad start, I guess.

I still think he's on the right track. In fact it's been a good sign that the replacements for the injured players are coming from the farm. No Ponson, no Erickson, no Terrence Long. Thank god.

Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2007-05-05 05:26:27
401.   Simone
I also think that Cashman is on the right track. He has been trying to get the starting pitching effective and younger. There have been setbacks Javy Vazquez, Jeff Weaver, Pavano and possibly Igawa, but as we have seen there are no guarantees when you sign and/or trade for these guys.

When I saw the rotation for this season, I knew the Yankees were in trouble. I said so and some one sarcastically commented that I was giving up on the season. Well, guess what folks, there isn't anything wrong with being realistic. The Yankees are missing a couple of solid starters before they can take on this season, but the more they lose, the further they fall behind and anyway that you cut it, that isn't good.

2007-05-05 06:00:03
402.   seamus
I am a fan of what Cashman is mostly doing these days since gaining larger control over the GM duties.

401 if healthy, I think that the rotation is good. Not great but good. And that is considering Pavano as basically a 6th starter that we cannot count on being there. And while I expect Moose and Pettitte to see some time on the DL, what we have seen has been unreal.

2007-05-05 07:25:41
403.   Raf
397 "I would change my position if I see in my lifetime a team which claimes to be rebuilding actually succeed with the players they claim to be using to 'rebuild.'"
I believe the Yankees, Braves, and Indians could make that claim.

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