Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
Boids...Dirty, Disgusting, Filthy, Lice-Ridden Boids (so Sayeth the Concierge)
2006-09-08 05:14
by Alex Belth
Note: The Bronx Banter blog has moved to

The Yanks are in Baltimore for a four-game series this weekend and well, it's just hard to get juiced about this one, isn't it? Four-hour games, a boring Orioles team, makes for precious little to say this morning. However, here are some links from around the 'Net which may be of some interest:

Yankee GM, Brian Cashman talks to Roger Rubin about what we can expect from Hideki Matsui.

Don Amore examines the Yankees starting pitching.

Ed Price tackles the Yankees bullpen, while Jim Baumbach wonders how Kyle Farnsworth will do come October, Peter Abraham covers Brian Bruney, and George King updates Mariano Rivera's situation.

Earlier this week, Joe Sheehan chimed-in on Alex Rodriguez's season over at Baseball Prospectus:

Hey, is Alex Rodriguez still a choking scrub unfit to occupy the same infield as Derek Jeter? It's kind of hard to keep up. I just happened to look today and saw that Rodriguez is 17th in the AL in EqA, 15th in RARP and 17th in VORP among position players. He leads AL third basemen in VORP and will likely hold that ranking until the end of the year. Defense could push Mark Teahen and/or Joe Crede ahead of Rodriguez in overall value, so you can figure he's one of the two of three best third basemen in the league.
All of this in the worst year of his career.

The level of attention paid to Rodriguez's slump went beyond all bounds of sanity. Yes, he was probably pressing, but there hasn't been a player in history who had as much made of an 0-for-22 slump. I can guarantee you that the guy who bats two spots ahead of him in the lineup has never been subjected to the kind of small-minded, gleeful, jealous treatment that Alex Rodriguez endured in August.

Would that he never is, because it was shameful. I can hold this gig for a million years and I will never embarrass myself the way the press did over this issue. It's the difference between writing about performance and writing about people, and it's why I can stand behind every critical thing about a baseball player that I've ever put down on paper or onto your monitor, because I was never attacking their character or their person, but rather their work product. I have been wrong, but I have always stuck to the performance.

I have to admit that I underestimated the kind of impact that Johnny Damon would have on the Yankees this year. But as the season draws to a conclusion, and Derek Jeter is the thick of the MVP mix, I've come to believe that Damon has been almost as important for the Bombers, both in the locker room and on the field. Jeter smiles plenty during the games--he's always enjoyed himself playing the game--but Damon is downright goofy. His smile is infectious, and along with the broad, carefree grins we see nightly from Robinson Cano and Melky Cabrera (and across town from Jose Reyes), I don't recall the last time a Yankee team seemed this loose, while being completely focused at the same time. As Pete Abraham recently noted, "I'm not sure there are 10 people in the world who enjoy life more than Damon."

And yet, even if Damon is a flake, he's also a gamer too. He's played hurt all year, and you know that his teammates must appreciate that. Earlier this season I was in the Yankee locker room for a Sunday matinee against the Royals. It was get-away day, which means that the players arrive wearing suits. Damon was in the clubhouse early, before most of his teammates had arrived, wearing a stylish tan suit. Before he undressed, I saw him kneeling down in the the corner of the room, picking through a case of cds. After a few minutes, he stood up and groaned in pain--his foot has been killing him all year. He winced and hobbled for a minute as he balanced himself. Nobody was around, none of the reporters were paying attention to him at that moment, and there was no sense that he trying to attract attention to himself. It was just a small moment, but one that indicated that this was one tough dude.

The press absolutely love him. Damon might be the best daily talker the team has had since David Cone. In all, he's been the perfect tonic for the traditionally tight-assed Yankees. Aditi Kinkhabwala has a piece on Damon today over at

Comments (81)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-09-08 05:58:55
1.   wsporter
The Producers, what a film.
2006-09-08 06:05:46
2.   mikeplugh
BTW...I wrote up a piece at Canyon of Heroes on the day I spent with Scott Proctor on his off day yesterday. He's a wild ass guy!!

Who knew he was such an arm wrestling freak!

2006-09-08 06:29:23
3.   JL25and3
Alex, you forgot "filthy."

"...he's up on the roof with his boids. He keeps boids. Dirty... disgusting... filthy... lice-ridden boids. You used to be able to sit out on the stoop like a person. Not anymore! No, sir! Boids!"

I won't even try to transliterate the proper pronunciations of "concierge."

2006-09-08 06:29:28
4.   mehmattski
I hear Superman wears EDSP pajamas.
2006-09-08 06:33:09
5.   Alex Belth
I knew it didn't sound right...I'm a fix that pronto.
2006-09-08 06:34:59
6.   Dimelo
Before I came to the banter today, I wanted to look at our local papers to see if I found a piece on ARod. In the last two years I can't remember the last time the NY press didn't have a piece on ARod after an off-day.

The Banter had something though.....albeit a good piece.

2006-09-08 06:36:59
7.   Sliced Bread
1 Sometimes I think it's Mel's best, even against "Saddles," and "Frankenstein."

That was a hilarious reference, Alex. I couldn't remember where it was from. wsporter was all over it.

And you're right, Alex, about it being hard to get up for this series against the lackluster O's, but the Yanks still have a lot of business to take care of. My wife told me last night there's no reason for me to watch every Yankees game at this point, shocking me with her knowledge that they're 9 games ahead of Boston. It's going to be hard to justify sacking out in front of the tube for these O's and D-Rays series. She's on to me.

You're also right about Damon, Alex. I didn't want the guy, and now I have to admit he's a big part of what makes these '06 Yanks so likeable. I love his game, and dig his happy-go-lucky style.

2 Great stuff, as always, Mr. Canyon of Heroes. I read you every day.

Great links above. I found Ed Price's bullpen piece the most compelling, mostly because of this:

"Over the past four postseasons, Yankees relievers other than closer Mariano Rivera have combined for a 6.09 ERA."

Aside from resting our big guns, Joe's most important business this month is figuring out who he can trust out of the bullpen next month.
I still have unjustified confidence in Farnswacker. Something tells me he's going to come up big this Oct. and reverse his postseason misfortune. Just do it, Farnswacker!
I like Bruney a lot, and hope to see a lot more of Dotel this month.
Villone, and Proctor have been horses, but you know what? They're becoming Quantril-Sturtze triggers to my central nervous system (emphasis there on nervous). They need rest.

2006-09-08 07:29:00
8.   pistolpete
The interesting thing to watch for this weekend is the evolution of the bit players - as Sliced already mentioned, Bruney, Dotel, Farnsworth - those are the guys I want tuned up and ready to go once we hit October.
2006-09-08 07:38:36
9.   Alvaro Espinoza
"I can guarantee you that the guy who bats two spots ahead of him in the lineup has never been subjected to the kind of small-minded, gleeful, jealous treatment that Alex Rodriguez endured in August."

Stupid quesion: Is he referring to Jeter?

(The piece is subsription only so I've only read Alex's snippet here).

2006-09-08 07:50:28
10.   Fred Vincy
Great anecdote about Damon. As he's been playing so well, you hear the foot mentioned less and less, so it's good to be reminded it's still hurting him. Thanks, Alex.
2006-09-08 07:59:13
11.   JL25and3
7 The reason to watch every game isn't that there's a pennant ract, or that there's business to take care of, or any of that. The reason to watch the games is that they're on.
2006-09-08 08:00:30
12.   Sliced Bread
11 Obvious to you and me, not so clear to the wife, unfortunately.
2006-09-08 08:01:35
13.   Shawn Clap
Speaking of "Springtime for Hitler", what's the deal with the Iron Cross tatoo on Bruney's forearm? And why isn't he made to cover that garbage up?
2006-09-08 08:07:30
14.   JL25and3
12 I hope your marriage never has to withstand a season like 1991, when you'll be complaining all summer about how much they suck, but watching every game nonetheless.
2006-09-08 08:08:11
15.   pistolpete
13 Isn't Bruney a German name? The Iron Cross doesn't necessarily have to do specifically with the Hitler/Nazi era, fwiw.
2006-09-08 08:08:58
16.   Sliced Bread
13 I'm guessing it's a biker thing. They wear the Iron Cross. Apparently it has nothing to do with Nazi propaganda, which the symbol is unfortunately associated with.

Here's what I found via google - "Iron Cross symbolism" search:

2006-09-08 08:11:25
17.   Jim Dean
7 Can you explain that to my wife as I now have tickets to every game this series?
2006-09-08 08:12:49
18.   pistolpete
17 If I wasn't under the weather, I was seriously looking into going to this series. I could have helped ya put up the worms! ;-)
2006-09-08 08:16:12
19.   Simone
I just checked out the VORP stats. Alex Rodriguez's VORP is dreadful compared to last season and other hitters in both leagues. I thought that he was having a much better season that offensively. Hopefully, he will rebound for the post season and next season.

9 If Sheehan was referring to Jeter, Sheehan either has a short term memory or he needs to read more. I clearly remember Jeter getting similar treatment during his slump a couple years ago. There was quite a few vicious articles by several writers and some Yankee fans saying that the Yankees would have to find a way to trade Derek since his slump was evidence that he couldn't cope/coexist with Rodriguez. Also, don't forget the booing of Jeter. The media and some fans are just turds.

2006-09-08 08:18:48
20.   wsporter
7 Slice I think it's easily his best film. It was on TCM last night. "No way out, No way out ..." jesus is that funny. My first business partner used to say that all the time when he or we were in it deep. Always funny and always helped keep things in perspective. I have a huge soft spot for that movie. I haven't seen the show and couldn't bring my self to see or rent the remake.

Just another example of why the Banter is the best.

2006-09-08 08:33:05
21.   Sliced Bread
20 I caught the Broadway show with Lane and Broderick. Ate and drank at Mel's restaurant which is conveniently attached to the theater. Lane was great. It took a while to get past Broderick being so not Wilder, but the show was a lot of fun. Terribly uncomfortable seats.

14 Let's hope none of us, married or not, has to endure another Yankees '91.
But my wife's generally very cool with me watching the games, even the ones she considers "meaningless." She busts my chops occasionally, and I compromise. Weekend day games I usually catch only parts of on the radio while we do family things, or work around the house. In other words, my Yanks obsession is not an issue in the Sliced Bread household.

17 Try this: "Baby, the Yanks are in town. Gotta go, gotta go, gotta go!" Works like a charm, as in, not all the time.

2006-09-08 08:33:50
22.   Murray
Easily Brooks's best movie, and still funnier than the stage version.

I was once watching an early episode of "Homicide: Life on the Street" where from Andre Braugher asked a lady at the desk of an SRO who she was. And she responded:

"I'm the concierge. My husband used to be the concierge, but he's dead. Now I'm the concierge."

I felt like that line was a gift specially delivered to me.

2006-09-08 08:34:52
23.   JL25and3
19 The booing Jeter got wasn't in the same universe. Jeter got some scattered boos after two months of futility (and even that was embarrassing to hear); ARod was getting a stadium full of boos by mid-June, two weeks after being player of the month. And the treatment in the press wasn't remotely comparable.

The "everyone gets booed" argument really doesn't cover what ARod got this year.

2006-09-08 08:39:01
24.   JL25and3
Much better than the stage production. Everything that was funny in the play was already funny in the movie; everything that was added was pretty pedestrian, especially the songs; and they left out some great bits. Like, for instance, the concierge.

It's my favorite, but it doesn't beat out Young Frankenstein by much. YF is better if you've seen the originals, not only Frankenstein but Son of and Bride of. The scene with Gene Hackman, for example, is a riotously dead-on parody of a scene in Son of Frankenstein.

2006-09-08 08:41:14
25.   Sliced Bread
22 "Producers" on "Homicide" That's beautiful.

I tend to agree it's his best script, but "Young Frankenstein" is perfect, cinematically gorgeous. That one might be his masterpiece. But I could easily be swayed by a one sentence case for "Blazing Saddles." Mel is my comedic hero. Him and Bugs.

2006-09-08 08:41:21
26.   Jim Dean
21 Yeah, it worked. But I think only because we had just moved to town and I had done most of the work. Next year I suspect that understanding may be lacking. I'm going to be hard-pressed next year not to go to every game, especially since the tix are cheap and abundant.

18 Tonight's the scouting mission as I have the same seats just one section over. But I'll talk to the users and make sure there's no problem. It will give me something to do as we defeather those filthy boids.

2006-09-08 08:42:27
27.   Schteeve
19 Simone, that's a bit disingenuous. Jeter NEVER got the treatment that A-Rod got this year. The constant obsessing on SportsCenter, the repeated calls for him to be traded, the incessant psychoanalysis and insinuations about his character or lack thereof. Jeter was booed yes, people wondered what the hell was wrong with Jeter yes, but it was never as rabid and vicious, and designed to sting the way it has been with A-Rod.
2006-09-08 08:43:41
28.   Sliced Bread
Breakin it down:

"Producers" Mel's best story/script.
"Frankenstein" Mel's best picture
"Saddles" Mel's best jokes

2006-09-08 08:45:01
29.   wsporter
23 Amen brother.

That Jeter thing was flat out embarrassing. I kept wondering among other things, "... how could they, are they nuts, what are they thinking, haven't they been paying attention ...?"

2006-09-08 08:48:10
30.   Schteeve
29 and 23 I think the difference was that in typical Jeter fashion, you never ever got the sense that the boos bothered him. He just went about his business. With A-Rod there is a perception of sensitivity and that fueled the rabid critiques. People smelled blood and wanted to see Alex squirm. Jeter never gave anyone the satisfaction.
2006-09-08 08:53:33
31.   Sliced Bread
There was so much more hate behind the Alex boos. It was truly sickening. The Jeter boos, as wsporter said, were flatout embarrassing.
The Rivera boos were hideously stupid.
Yanks fans, like all sports fans, can be complete idiots.
2006-09-08 08:56:43
32.   C2Coke
Sometimes it's hard to believe we are that close to the playoffs, timetable wise. It feels like the season had just started.
2006-09-08 08:58:35
33.   C2Coke
31 Perhaps it's a New York thing? There always seems to be a sense of vulnerability in Arod this year that makes him un-qualified as a tough New Yorker?
2006-09-08 09:09:21
34.   Sliced Bread
33 I think it's an ugly mob mentality thing that can happen wherever fans take their sports seriously, and themselves too seriously.
2006-09-08 09:13:52
35.   DarrenF
27 Without a doubt, quite a few Yankee fans have been rooting for ARod to fail.
Their idea of a perfect game is for the Yankees to win 12-0 while ARod goes 0-for-5 with 2 errors. They can cheer the win and also boo ARod.
2006-09-08 09:21:21
36.   RIYank
Not to change the subject, but: I'd like to submit a request that the Yankees hit the daylights out of Bedard tonight. Is this the proper window for that request?
2006-09-08 09:31:06
37.   Simone
23, 27 I'll agree that the degree to which Rodriguez was worse, but there was viciousness in how the NY and national media responded to Jeter's slump. It was like they were getting in all the digs that they felt they couldn't when he was considered the "golden child."

Sorry, but this "poor Alex Rodriguez" spiel is just hard for me to accept. Sure he has been treated badly, but it isn't like he is getting Maris or worse Hank Aaron treatment from the fans, media and MLB. I've see all along Rodriguez needs to just suck it up and perform. Look how everyone has shut the hell up now that he is hitting.

I remember when Tino and then Giambi was booed. I thought there was a lot of hate towards Giambi in paricular. The Jeter and Mariano booing just proves that some Yankee fans are buffoons.

2006-09-08 09:36:16
38.   Schteeve
37 I agree that Giambi got it pretty bad, but I still don't think it was comparable to A-Rod. If A-Rod were ever involved in a steroid case he would be roasted. Giambi seems to have been forgiven for his sins by virtue of his bat.
2006-09-08 09:40:49
39.   Schteeve
Also, I may be guilty of singing the "poor A-Rod blues" but it's because the criticism heaped on him is ridiculously out of line. People have unrealistic expectations of him, refuse to let him be human, ridicule him and cast aspersions on his psyche, and why? The why is because there is a perception that he "Makes too much money." He's a whipping boy because he's the highest paid player in the game.

That's jealousy, plain and simple. People hate A-Rod because he is the embodiment of the "greedy overpaid celebrity/athlete."

The problem with that though, is that there are a lot of 'overpaid' celebrities and athletes but A-Rod is singled out because he has an obvious or apparent sensitivity to criticism, and when attacks on a person are amplified BECAUSE that person seems to be affected by them, well, that's just cruel.

2006-09-08 09:50:30
40.   Chyll Will
Clam chowder on my hotdog. Phooey. I despise closeted homers masquerading as legitimate journalists in papers I wouldn't even use to line the catbox, schmucks.

37 I disagree to a certain point. A-Rod was certainly getting The Works in the media, though he hasn't to our knowledge endured constant death threats. That it effected him enough to be visible in either his game or his statements only encouraged the idiots to boo him even harder.

What ticks me off is that there wasn't enough people booing back for him. And you know what? No one loud enough is going to take those idiots to task for their embarressing behavior; fans, media or otherwise.

I have a right to be hostile, man, my Yanks've been persecuted!

2006-09-08 09:51:51
41.   RZG
35 Nah, those fans wish for a 12-1 Yankee win with Arod hitting a homer in the bottom of the 8th "without the pressure"
2006-09-08 09:54:41
42.   Chyll Will
39 Couldn't have said it better. But I don't think A-Rod is greedy because he's overpaid. I believe he was overpaid because of someone else's greed. Like I said before, if someone wanted to pay you $250 million to do just what you're doing now, would you say no?
2006-09-08 09:56:16
43.   Zack
Off topic, if there is one, but can anyone explain to me why the Padres traded a AA, high ceiling offensive catcher, who was their #2 prospect coming into this season, for a 41 year old, fat, gouty pitcher for one month? Is it just the Kevin Towers-Theo man love fest that they have had all season, where Towers has basically let Theo walk all over him? Basically, the Sox managed to possibly solve their catcher problem and gave up nothing. Well, a lot of poundage, but little else.

At first, looking at his season stats, I wansn't too worried, but looking more at his scouting and projections, and the fact that he was rushed to AAA, well then I just got annoyed...Why the heck can't we get a catcher that easily?

2006-09-08 09:59:48
44.   wsporter
Isn't Shef supposed to see the Dr today about starting BP? Any word on results?

This A-rod booing is as bad as anything I've ever seen. I remember being aware of the rough treatment Marris got or was getting but I don't recall it being anything like the job they did on A-Rod. The Hank Aaron booing was plainly and simply racism. To compare it to A-Rod is I think a mistake in that they are simply not analogous situations; one (A-Rod) is merely bad taste while the other is inhumane and I think a topic for a different discussion.

2006-09-08 10:00:19
45.   RI Yankee
Anyone seen the recent comments by Tavares and Youklis about the fans booing in Boston. The response has generally been: suck it up or go play for the Royals.
2006-09-08 10:01:47
46.   Chyll Will
43 I was going to say something about that gorrilla suit and the San Diego Zoo, but Ken's watching and I don't wanted to get zapped.
2006-09-08 10:02:53
47.   Chyll Will
44 Hear hear!
2006-09-08 10:06:57
48.   AbbyNormal821
45 Where are these comments?
2006-09-08 10:13:50
49.   Chyll Will
45 I see Tavares as that guy waiting in an alley off of Yawkey Way in street clothes after the game... the sirens are blaring and people are gathered around one spot looking on the ground, and rain beings to fall lightly and a stream of blood trickles down into the sewer grate off to the side. Witnesses tell varying tales about what they saw, but they all have one thing in common: the last thing they heard before the loud scream was a wild voice saying, "What!! You like to boo, huh? BOO THIS!!!"
2006-09-08 10:24:20
50.   Jim Dean
43 It makes you think, huh? We've been 'enjoying' John Kelly Fasano for the last four years and praying Jorge doesn't get hurt. Yet the Sux have had their hands on three decent young catchers this year alone (Shoppach, Bard, Kottaras)? And it's not like guys aren't out there for the taking. Jeff Clement would work nicely.

The Sox learned with Varitek this year what happens when your catcher goes down. If Cashman didn't see the result, and learn the same lesson, he deserves the hell he'll get if they lose Jorge for any length of time.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-09-08 10:24:37
51.   JL25and3
37 No, I wouldn't put the booing of Rodriguez in the same category as Maris and Aaron. That just means it's not the very worst treatment ever received by a player. Those were probably the two most egregious and despicable examples of player abuse by fans (and, in Maris's case, the press).

I'm not saying "poor ARod." Nevertheless, the treatment he received was completely ridiculous and bore no relation to reality.

2006-09-08 10:28:06
52.   JL25and3
50 I've been saying for some time that Posada is the one player they truly can't afford to lose to injury. They'd be able to weather the absence of Jeter or Rivera more easily.

When you've got a 35-year-old catcher, you should really be thinking about what your plan B is. I don't know why the Yankees have been so cavalier about it.

Catching also may be the toughest position to fill via free agency.

2006-09-08 10:34:43
53.   Jim Dean
52 I was shouting pretty loud on Pete's site about it, but even Piazza as a 1B/DH/C would have worked for this year's club. It's amazing that they wanted to give Phillips his shot so bad that it restricted other options. For the price of Piazza, you do it. So what if his actual catching is below average? His hitting makes up for it.

This off-season the free agents at C are pretty slim too. But I'd say Greg Zaun. He's capable. It won't help muchin the age department, but at least they have something if Jorge drops off the cliff, which really could happen anytime now.

I'd still prefer a trade of something like Eric Duncan for a guy like Clement. They both disappointed at AAA this year but the talent is still there.

2006-09-08 10:38:35
54.   Andre
I'm not so sure about "Theo walking all over Kevin Towers" this year.

Don't forget, Theo traded Josh Bard & Cla Meredith, both performing VERY well right now, for Doug Mirabelli (remember the whole police escort to Fenway to face the Yanks?)

THEN, Theo traded a good (albeit 40+ year old pitcher) for yet ANOTHER backup catcher - he couldn't get Bard back because Bard is doing too well.

In Boston, they're touting those trades (among the Hanley Ramirez, Anibal Sanchez for Beckett/Lowell, and the Arroyo & Shoppach trades) as a very bad year for Theo. In fact, WEEI in Boston has been wondering out loud if Theo has done anything right since he's been the GM, besides getting rid of Nomar and signing Papelbon. Most of the good young performers (and even a few of the good older performers) they have were Dan Duquette signings, and Duquette is universally lambasted around here.

Seems like Theo has been dumping Duquette signees and retaining Theo signees, and the Theo crew hasn't been working out that well.

2006-09-08 10:39:15
55.   Jim Dean
53 Except that Zaun could very easily turn into John Kelly Fasano. Solid year this year. Career numbers not so much.
2006-09-08 10:43:16
56.   standuptriple
55 I think Zaun could be a nice stopgap at the C. Maybe a 2nd year club option. But yes, they need to make a move for a solid backstop or at least get a protoge until Mauer is a FA.
2006-09-08 10:47:27
57.   wsporter
54 Poor old Theo, yesterday's genius is today's dumb ass. There are probably only a couple of hundred lessons to be learned from that.
2006-09-08 11:05:56
58.   Shaun P
53 I think Piazza would have been a great fit, too. But the more I've thought about it this year, the more I think Piazza would have never signed with the Yanks. He wanted out of NY, away from the spotlight - I think the last couple years really wore on him. So I don't think you can fault Cashman for not signing Piazza - I don't think Piazza would have signed with the Yanks.

54 MFD, the real problem is that the Boston media (as always) needs a scapegoat. Certainly the Yanks can't be the source of their failure this time, so where else does the ire of the insane RSN media machine turn? Why of course, the young, talented GM - the hometown hero. Couldn't possibly be any jealousy in there, now could there be? Not from the upstanding media types in Boston!

Hindsight is 20-20. Taking into account what Theo knew when he knew it, I don't think you can fault the moves he made - EXCEPT trading Marte for Crisp and signing Tavarez and Seanez. But then again, Marte hasn't exactly turned into all that.

Bard is, as Cliff has said, a 28 year old having his shining moment. Look at his performance record - he isn't going to do this again.

Anyone else think Hanley R. in Fenway at 22 might not have performed as well as he has in relative obscurity in Florida? Especially with all the hype he had in RSN?

Beckett is 26, and for that kind of arm at age 26, I say the team's 4th best pitching prospect and a 22-year-old SS who hit poorly at AA is more than a fair price to pay, no hitters be damned.

I wouldn't have let Damon or Pedro go over $$$ - but something tells me Theo doesn't set the budget.

As for Meredith - dude has a sub-1.00 ERA in 30 odd innings. In a fantastic pitchers' park. How valuable is that again? Didn't Chris Hammond do the same thing a few years ago?

I didn't mean for this to turn into a defense of Theo, but I guess it has. I just hate to see the $%#)$#) in the Boston media destroy the guy out of jealousy - even if that benefits the Yanks, which it would.

2006-09-08 11:07:59
59.   DarrenF
37 Not poor ARod. Poor me. Poor me who sees ARod hit five homeruns in four games at Yankee Stadium this season but still gets shouted down by so-called Yankee fans while giving him a standing ovation.

I'll gladly concede that the Maris and Aaron treatments were worse. I'd like to believe I'd have been one of the Yankee fans who supported the back-to-back MVP when he took the field in 1962.

2006-09-08 11:14:14
60.   JohnnyC
58 You can defend Theo all you want and you make reasonable arguments but I wonder what the cool, clear eye of objectivity would have made of Theo's tenure as Red Sox GM if the Yankees had merely gotten those 2 last outs in Game 4 of the 2004 ALCS and completed the sweep.
2006-09-08 11:19:40
61.   RI Yankee
48 Sorry Abby . . .

where else . . .

2006-09-08 11:26:11
62.   Sliced Bread
58 I think Theo would still be getting a little love these days (despite the $30-million dollar Beckett handshake, despite the Sanchez no-hitter etc.) had he pulled the trigger on an Abreu-Lidle type deal this summer, or even the Abreu-Lidle deal itself. But he didn't make any significant moves in July to improve his team, and then the rug was pulled out from under Sox fans in Aug.

Even though Abreu is the type of OBP machine that prevents crime, creates jobs, and even babies in Boston, Theo didn't have enough in his allowance to afford him. Did he ask Daddy for more money? Certainly, Theo could have showed enough interest in Abreu to drive up the price (in terms of prospects) the Yanks paid for him. But he didn't do that either. Silly boy.

All else could probably be forgiven by Boston fans, but not this:
Cashman housed Theo this summer -- and Kid Kong is going to pay for that (perhaps literally) all winter.

F Theo. All hail King George and his Cashman!

2006-09-08 11:27:00
63.   JL25and3
58 I agree, Bard and Meredith look like a steal in the very short term, but there's no reason to believe they'll continue this way. Especially Bard.

That trade might look better for the Sox if Wakefield hadn't been injured.

And please, don't forget that a couple of months earlier, SD gave up Mark Loretta no get Mirabelli. Now that's a steal. Put the two deals together - Bard and Meredith for Loretta - and it's still one the Sox should make every time.

I think Doug Mirabelli has to have been the most overvalued player of the year, even more than those relievers the Reds got.

2006-09-08 11:30:24
64.   Zack
58 That sort of sums up what I was going to say about the San Diego moves this year>

They trade Mirribilli for Loretta, which, even though San Diego wanted to dump him, they still could have done oh so much better. Steal

They trade Bard and Merideth, two guys who stunk up the joint in the Fens, for Mirabilli again, basically meaning that they traded those two guys for Loretta, which is a better total trade. Bard and Merideth, as Shaun said, are probably more the result of a career season and the powers of Petco park.

And then the Wells trade, which, again, seems like a steal for the Sox, who had no more use for Wells but really needed a young future C.

As for the other moves, well, the jury is still out on Theo. I would say he is overrated due to his winning the Series with that team, and he got lucky the Nomar trade worked out. Had they lost in 4 to the Yanks, well, he'd be gone by now. He has worked to build up the system, but then he has traded a lot of it away, but for pretty young, seemingly solid guys: Coco and Beckett.

I think the biggest difference is how Cashman and Theo are percieved in a lot of circles, aka the media and the "nation," and even in some Yankee fan circles. Cashman only has been successful because he has the money, whereas Theo is the boy genius. But, other than the fact that they ran into an 8 game hot streak that defied logic at the right time, the Sox haven't been all that better than in the DD years...

2006-09-08 11:33:19
65.   JL25and3
58 I don't think they really let Damon because of the money, any more than they did with Pedro. Certainly not the money in year 1; it was year 4 and up that they were worried about. And, for that matter, we don't know how that deal will look in a few years - though Damon appears to be such a great guy, in the clubhouse and with the press, that I'm willing to pay for a declining year.
2006-09-08 11:50:04
66.   JohnnyC
The evil genius in the Sox organization is Larry Lucchino...and his genius has little to do with actual baseball knowledge. He is the very picture of the modern baseball executive, Bud Selig-style. He's all about soaking the fan base for all the dinero he can. And if you can luck into a championship once every couple of decades (it's all in the timing)that's just the icing on the financial cake. If they could charge fans $100 a piece to stand on stilts on Landsdowne Street to watch games at Fenway, they would...but only on a season subscription basis, of course.
2006-09-08 12:12:14
67.   Jim Dean
58 I disagreed with other folks on whether Piazza would have signed. I say he would have because of:

a) more money, maybe twice as much
b) better chance for his first ring

Who knows though. This off-season he's going to command more than 1.5, that's for sure.

2006-09-08 12:13:53
68.   Max
I think you guys are being too easy on Theo. Though I agree that the performance of all the traded off prospects has to be qualified by the fact that the accomplishments are taking place in a junior league (the NL), Theo's track record with pitchers has not been good. It's nice to hit the waiver wire once in a while, and scour other clubs for damaged goods hoping to win the lottery (Mantei, etc), but at some point, the dumpster diving has to be recognized for what it is.

The current backlash against Theo is a natural reaction, given that all this blindfolded foraging has been hailed as canny genius for two years now.

2006-09-08 12:25:17
69.   AbbyNormal821
61 Much obliged!
2006-09-08 12:37:20
70.   JL25and3
66 I can't stand Lucchino, I think he's an arrogant, self-aggrandizing phony.

In the period when Camden Yards was being built and Lucchino then took over the Orioles, my brother worked for the same law firm he did. So one day my brother was able to get tickets in the owner's box, and of course he rooted for the Yankees. Lucchino apparently got miffed, and that was the last time my brother got those tickets.

Lucchino then went on to run the Padres, and then suddenly resurfaced as Mr. Red Sox Nation; I think he's just full of crap. My brother, of course, still roots for the Yankees.

2006-09-08 12:59:08
71.   Cliff Corcoran
I haven't been reading along, so forgive me if this has been covered, but Piazza actually told his agents to go to the Yankees to get him a deal here and Cashman said the Yanks weren't interested or didn't have room on the roster or whatever. Piazza wanted to sign with the Yankees. They were his first choice. Easily the worst move of the offseason.
2006-09-08 13:02:49
72.   Jim Dean
72 I did not know that, thanks! Where did you hear it? PeteAbe was arguing what Shaun 58 was saying. But it seems like a silly aargument. The guy thrived in NYC. Why would he want to leave?

I agree - bad move. He could have been their DH, and backup to Giambi and Jorge. It made too much sense.

2006-09-08 13:03:19
73.   Jim Dean
Sorry 71
2006-09-08 13:06:19
74.   wsporter
70 What are the bounds of decorum in that instance? Can you root for the opposing team in the hometown owner's box on comped tickets?

I have to admit I might be somewhat miffed if it happened in my box. I might be even more miffed if one of my employees did it in a box owned by a client. Especially if my firm was billing that client 6 or 7 figures annually. If one of my partners did it I might even be tempted to have a word or two with him or her. I might have to ask Yankees fans to root in silence or stay out of the box; Especially with a supercilious little prick like Little Petey Angelos floating around.

Don't get me wrong Lucky Larry is the devil incarnate as far as I'm concerned. Every time I hear that Evil Empire reference I find myself praying that he is humiliated in some horrible fashion but on that one I'm not so sure he would have been way out of line if he withheld future access ...... No offense intended and I don't mean to rag your brother.

2006-09-08 13:15:19
75.   Sliced Bread
re: passing on Piazza

As much as Cashman is in charge (and has been since last fall) I think when it comes to big name acquistions it's still George's call. He loved Damon. Expressed his fondness for Abreu.

If Steinbrenner wanted Pedro, Petey's age, length of contract, and "who's my daddy" /Zim slam - baggage would have meant nothing,and he'd be working in the Bronx.

Ditto for Mikey P.

If Steinbrenner liked or wanted Piazza we never would have seen Kelly Stinnett. Piazza's problems with Clemens, whom Steinbrenner was also yearning for last winter, may have also fueled the Yanks (read George's) disinterest in him.

2006-09-08 13:18:42
76.   JL25and3
74 Well, if he didn't want anyone rooting for the other team, he shouldn't have comped my brother. Anyone who's known him for five minutes would know that.

But that's not the part that offends me, at least not deeply; I think it's silly but not incomprehensible. It's the way Lucchino - a mercenary, hired gun - now presents hmself as the heart and soul of RSN that really pisses me off. (Remember, he was the one who coined the term "Evil Empire.")

2006-09-08 13:48:45
77.   Zack
For a depressing read, go over to RLYW and check out their bullpen counter sidebar. Its just obscene how much Proctor and Villone have pitched in comparison to everyone else...
2006-09-08 14:02:37
78.   randym77
I guess Andy hasn't Wally Pipped Craig Wilson yet...

Johnny Damon CF
Derek Jeter SS
Bobby Abreu RF
Jason Giambi DH
Alex Rodriguez 3B
Jorge Posada C
Robinson Cano 2B
Craig Wilson 1B
Melky Cabrera LF

Cory Lidle RHP

2006-09-08 14:14:15
79.   wsporter
78 I thought Andy was going to be Pipped by Wilson.
2006-09-08 14:23:06
80.   randym77
79 Yeah, well, Wilson has been in a bit of slump. So the "what have you done for me lately" fans, who not long ago were ready to draw and quarter Andy Phillips, have been screaming for his return. And he actually got hit when he was subbed in the other day, so of course he's much better than Wilson.
2006-09-08 14:27:38
81.   wsporter
80 Boy randy did you hit the nail on the head there; it's Shakespeare - "I come not to praise Andy but to bury him ..." – the stupid stinkin Mob.

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