Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
Tampa Bay Rays III
2008-05-12 12:50
by Cliff Corcoran
Note: The Bronx Banter blog has moved to

Don't look now, but the Tampa Bay Rays have third-best record in American League. Given that, the Yankees look pretty good rolling into town with a 4-2 record against the Rays and a 2-0 record at the Trop this season, but then it's been nearly a month since these two teams last met. The Rays were 6-8 when the Yankees last left town, but are 15-7 since then, 13-5 over their last six series, and are coming off a sweep of the Angels.

Just as they planned it, the Rays have been winning on the strength of their pitching and defense, particularly since getting Scott Kazmir and Matt Garza, neither of whom has faced the Yankees yet this year but both of whom will start in this series with the latter taking the hill tonight, back from the disabled list. Last by a lot in preventing runs last year, the Rays are now are the fifth stingiest team in the league and are second only to the surprising A's in least runs allowed per game at home, yielding just with 3.47 R/G at the Trop.

Garza has a 3.06 ERA in three starts since coming off the DL, but with a reverse K/BB of 0.75. He'll face Andy Pettitte, who is working on an extra day of rest due to yesterday's rainout.

Tampa Bay Rays

2008 Record: 21-16 (.568)
2008 Pythagorean Record: 20-17 (.549)

Manager: Joe Maddon
General Manager: Andrew Friedman

Home Ballpark (multi-year Park Factors): Tropicana Field (98/100)

Who's Replaced Whom:

Greg Gross replaced Nathan Haynes (DFA)
Cliff Floyd (DL) replaced Justin Ruggiano (minors)
Andy Cannizaro (minors) replaced Elliot Johnson (minors)
Matt Garza (DL) reclaimed his rotation spot from Jeff Niemann (minors)
Scott Kamzir (DL) replaced Jason Hammel in the rotation
Hammel replaced Al Reyes (DL) in the bullpen

25-man Roster:

1B - Carlos Peña (L)
2B - Akinori Iwamura (L)
SS - Jason Bartlett (R)
3B - Evan Longoria (R)
C - Dioner Navarro (S)
RF - Gabe Gross (L)
CF - B.J. Upton (R)
LF - Carl Crawford (L)
DH - Eric Hinske (L)


R - Jonny Gomes (OF)
L - Cliff Floyd (OF)
R - Andy Cannizaro (IF)
R - Shawn Riggans (C)


R - James Shields
L - Scott Kazmir
R - Andy Sonnanstine
R - Matt Garza
R - Edwin Jackson


R - Troy Percival
R - Dan Wheeler
R - Gary Glover
L - Trever Miller
R - Scott Dohmann
L - J. P. Howell
R - Jason Hammel

15-day DL: R - Al Reyes, R - Chad Orvella, S - Willy Aybar (IF), S - Ben Zobrist (IF)
60-day DL: R - Rocco Baldelli (OF)

Typical Lineup:

L - Akinori Iwamura (2B)
L - Carl Crawford (LF)
R - B.J. Upton (CF)
L - Carlos Peña (1B)
R - Evan Longoria (3B)
L - Erik Hinske (RF)
S - Dioner Navarro (C)
L - Gabe Gross (RF)
R - Jason Bartlett (SS)

Comments (121)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-05-12 13:40:16
1.   ny2ca2dc
Rotoworld is reporting (via the post, i think) that Kennedy is going to be recalled to start Friday against the Mets. Welcome back kid.
2008-05-12 13:52:27
2.   Shaun P
1 That doesn't make sense to me. IPK is supposed to pitch the first game of a double-header tonight for SWB. If he comes back to start on Friday, he'd have only 3 days' rest. I can't see the Yanks doing that just to avoid Igawa, especially when other options are there.
2008-05-12 14:14:34
3.   YankeeInMichigan
A bunch of posters on Pete Abe's blog are quoting WFAN as saying that Kennedy will pitch only one inning today and will start on Friday.
2008-05-12 15:00:02
4.   Xeifrank
Very important series for the Rays as one of their biggest threats in regards to wild-card competition comes to town. A series win by the Rays could put some distance between the two teams and help build more confidence for the Rays and possibly help them narrow the gap with the Red Sox.
vr, Xei
2008-05-12 15:28:30
5.   OldYanksFan
2 According to PeteAbe:
The MRI taken today on Alex Rodriguez revealed progress but not enough to start playing in rehab games. Joe Girardi just told the media that Rodriguez will not be activated this week, meaning he's out for the Mets series.

The Yankees have not officially announced a starter for Thursday. But it will be Ian Kennedy. He will throw 1 or 2 innings tonight. Darrell Rasner will get the Mets on Friday.

2008-05-12 15:30:55
6.   rbj
5 Re: A-Rod, damn.
re: IPK, phew, much better than Igawa.

So what happens to Kei -- back down to AAA or trade him to, say, SD for a bag of used balls?

2008-05-12 15:34:17
7.   murphy
xei 4 , you know this is a yankees blog, yes? ;) the idea here is that the yanks sweep the series and climb above tampa in the standings - relegating the rays to their normal place near the basement.
2008-05-12 15:34:23
8.   YankeeInMichigan
Kennedy pitched just one inning. Strickland came in for the 2nd.

Kennedy's line:
1 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 0 K

The hit was an infield single. The hitter was then caught stealing on a pitchout.

2008-05-12 15:35:05
9.   YankeeInMichigan
6 So will we then see Jeter batting cleanup against Kazmir on Thursday?
2008-05-12 15:35:47
10.   YankeeInMichigan
8 Forgot to mention: 12 pitches, 7 strikes
2008-05-12 15:41:12
11.   rbj
9 Sure. And maybe have Molina lead off.
2008-05-12 16:11:41
12.   mehmattski
Hey folks, long time no chat... I sure have missed a lot of baseball the last few weeks, but now I'm back.

Matt Garza: not a good pitcher. So, 7 IP 0 R 3 H 6 K, right?

2008-05-12 16:30:41
13.   mehmattski
Need we remind ourselves of Matt Garza's career statistics:

158 IP
184 H
68 BB
116 K
17 HR

2008-05-12 16:32:55
14.   Yankees Brasil
13 Tell that to our lineup.
2008-05-12 16:44:27
15.   nick
ok, that's all Garza will need...
2008-05-12 16:44:55
16.   OldYanksFan
Pettitte victim of the bloops.
And when did Cano field that ball with his back to the infield when Melky was coming in?
2008-05-12 16:47:50
17.   mehmattski
Well, having men on base was fun while it lasted.
2008-05-12 16:51:12
18.   mehmattski
Alberto Gonzalez just raised his batting average to .296, which is fourth-highest on the team.
2008-05-12 16:51:36
19.   Yankees Brasil
This is a typical Yankee earned run. They get a cheap single, steal second, and drive them home with another blooper. Pathetic.
2008-05-12 16:55:07
20.   rbj
I've been out mowing the lawn, guess I haven't missed much.
2008-05-12 16:55:49
21.   Eirias
Anyone else want to see Giese pitch a game? I don't care (for exactly one start) if he is 31.
2008-05-12 16:56:12
22.   ny2ca2dc
I'm finding it hard to dislike AG. He should suck more than he has. Sure he can't slug a lick, but he's taken a few walks, plays great D; nice little player. Gotta be an asset for the bench or in a trade, no?
2008-05-12 16:59:23
23.   RIYank
Andy's pitching well, and we'll hit Garza, I'm pretty confident. (Some steam came out of my ears when the Rays put together that two-out 'rally', though.)
2008-05-12 16:59:48
24.   RIYank
... and here we go again...
2008-05-12 17:03:19
25.   tommyl
It would help if they umpire would say, call strikes and all. See, over the corner, knee high is what we call a good strikeout pitch.
2008-05-12 17:04:02
26.   RIYank
Was that one called 'low'?
2008-05-12 17:07:05
27.   RIYank
He really is pitching well. Now it's time to lay some wood.
2008-05-12 17:08:32
28.   tommyl
26 Or off the corner, who knows.

Derek, its ok to take a strike.

2008-05-12 17:12:03
29.   rbj
Is that Cy Garza out there?
2008-05-12 17:20:56
30.   Yankees Brasil
Here we go, the meltdown inning.
2008-05-12 17:27:15
31.   Yankees Brasil
Ty Gomes? Jonny Cobb? Or is Molina throwing left handed tonight?
2008-05-12 17:28:37
32.   rbj
Maybe I'll go back to listening to the Mudhens game.
2008-05-12 17:28:51
33.   Eirias
Unassisted triple play in the Toronto - Cleveland game.
2008-05-12 17:29:28
34.   ny2ca2dc
Shoot me.
2008-05-12 17:29:49
35.   tommyl
Le sigh
2008-05-12 17:29:55
36.   Mattpat11
Well, this is going well.
2008-05-12 17:30:33
37.   tommyl
Thankfully they bunted Navarro, otherwise we'd have no outs right now.
2008-05-12 17:31:19
38.   vockins
33 Man, Bob Timmerman is going to go bonkers looking up when the last time an unassisted triple play happened in the same game as a catcher's interference call.
2008-05-12 17:33:31
39.   Alex Belth
Tonight...may we present "Bad Andy."
2008-05-12 17:34:16
40.   Yankees Brasil
Pettitte doesn't look right this year. Combine that with our weakass lineup, and that's the game. Hopefully we'll get them tomorrow, or maybe next season.
2008-05-12 17:34:28
41.   vockins
Maybe this really is a .500 team.
2008-05-12 17:36:04
42.   nick
this is a real pattern for the last 3-4 starts, no? Andy looks great and then completely loses it without warning...
2008-05-12 17:44:07
43.   OldYanksFan
Robbie just can't get any luck. Another hard LD right at somebody.
2008-05-12 17:44:09
44.   Yankees Brasil
Down 5 runs, Molina is tries to bunt!!! And he misses! Pathetic.
2008-05-12 17:46:05
45.   mehmattski
New York Yankees, May 12, 2007:
New York Yankees, May 12, 2005:

All is not lost, even in May.

2008-05-12 17:51:37
46.   tommyl
41 With two starters not here and our best two hitters injured, yes this is likely close to a .500 team. Add back a (good) Hughes and Kennedy, and soon A-Rod and then Posada and we're significantly better.

Think how the Sox would be without Lester, Bucholz, Ortiz and Manny.

2008-05-12 17:53:20
47.   Mattpat11
May 12 1992: 16-16
2008-05-12 17:53:26
48.   mehmattski
The Yankees weren't over .500 for good last year until July 15. Of course, it doesn't make this team any less frustrating to watch. I may switch to watching a winning team, like the Marlins...
2008-05-12 17:53:56
49.   claybeez
45 The last few years when the doom and gloomers came out of the woodwork I always said it was early. This season, I recognize it's far from over, but I'm more worried.
2008-05-12 17:54:07
50.   Yankees Brasil
Pettitte injured? Thought he would at least complete 5 innings.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-05-12 17:54:17
51.   Mattpat11
Oh Christ. Igawa
2008-05-12 17:55:36
52.   OldYanksFan
The Bad news:
On ESPN, the Sox score 3 in the top of the first.
The Good news:
Laptops gives up 7 ERs in 4.1 innings, 8 hits and 5 BBs.
Buccholz out. Minn: 7, Sox 3. After 5.
2008-05-12 17:56:45
53.   randym77
So, Igawa's in the pen now?
2008-05-12 17:57:06
54.   cult of basebaal
the Make A Wish Kids rides again ... evidently, hopeless situations are what he's here for
2008-05-12 17:57:16
55.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
53 amazing to see the Sox getting knocked around by the Twins, they have no power at all! methinks the BoSox staff really isn't "all that"..
2008-05-12 18:00:32
56.   mehmattski
Gonzo hits like a Ray.
2008-05-12 18:04:40
57.   Yankees Brasil
56 And Damon pops out like a Yankee (first pitch!)
2008-05-12 18:05:53
58.   OldYanksFan
At this time last year, we were 7 games out. A week later (2007), we were 10.5 out.

We have some real injuries and Posada, Hughes and Albie are out until the ASB. Bruney maybe for the season. Have lost ARod for 3 weeks or so. It will be a tough year. But it's far from over. Cleveland and Detroit off to slow starts also.

2008-05-12 18:07:43
59.   tommyl
Phew! I thought we might score a run or something there. Way to take care of that Bobby.
2008-05-12 18:07:45
60.   Just fair
Well, just got home. That Abreu ab seems about right.
2008-05-12 18:08:53
61.   Yankees Brasil
Amazingly bad. Another DP induced from a flyball pitcher.
2008-05-12 18:09:39
62.   OldYanksFan
TB does have a good team, and basically EVERYONE is under 30. They could be a player in the AL East for years to come.
2008-05-12 18:10:37
63.   williamnyy23
39 I can't completely blame this one on Andy...having so few runs to work with has to make his life more difficult. Also, Maddon did a great job with the running game.

On the other hand, Girardi continue to exhibit a hands off approach (the first Molina double play comes to mind…do the Yankees ever send the runners?), which when juxtaposed against Maddon's aggressive approach, makes it seem as if Joe G. is sitting on his hands. I have to say I am kind of disappointed by Girardi's laid back style.

Another disappointing trend that continues is the Yankees over aggressive approach at the plate. I think the loss of Arod and Posada impacts that as well. Right now, the Yankees don't really have a hitter that opposing pitchers flat our fear.

The news about Arod is a lot more ominous then the progress of this game. The return of the MVP version of Alex could quickly cure a lot of the team's ills, so the possibility that we could be two weeks away from his return is very bad news, especially when you allow for a 1-2 weeks of getting reacclimated.

2008-05-12 18:11:23
64.   Mattpat11
62 They are and were a FAR better team than the talking heads favorite team Toronto.
2008-05-12 18:13:04
65.   mehmattski
How dare Chris Britton use Ron Villone's number! What a chump! BOOOOOOO!
2008-05-12 18:14:03
66.   Yankees Brasil
It just sucks that every single year the Yankees only start taking games seriously after they are back 8 to 10 games.
2008-05-12 18:14:52
67.   Just fair
Chris "I AM in a world of shit" Britton.
Full Metal Jacket, anyone.
2008-05-12 18:15:49
68.   williamnyy23
62 That's what being awful for 10 years will get you. Of course, the Rays now have to resign everyone to really sustain there success.

Ironically, the play of the Yankees this season might actually be making the decision to not trade for Santana look good. It could very well be that patching things up with a Santana might have been a counterproductive strategy when you consider the emergence of the Rays and the dedication to the farm exhibited by the Sox.

2008-05-12 18:18:03
69.   williamnyy23
Hopefully, Britton is opening up some eyes. While it took two serious injuries to get him a legitimate chance, I think the Yankees will be the better for giving Britton an extended chance.

I also think A.G. is showing signs that he could be an everyday major league SS. Clearly, any talk about moving Jeter to LF is premature, but if AG continues to show improvement at the plate, at least they have that option.

2008-05-12 18:27:06
70.   mehmattski
68 Not to mention Santana's 1.4 HR/9, 2.3 BB/9 (both his highest in five years) and his K/9 (9.1, but the lowest in five years) while facing the weaker hitting league in a pitchers' park. He'd be helping the Yankees for sure, but he wouldn't have them in first place all on his own.
2008-05-12 18:27:28
71.   OldYanksFan
Wow. Pedroia with an opposite field LD to Cuddyer. Cuddyer gloves the ball over his head. The ball bounces out of his glove and hits the top of his head. Cuddyer is not sure where the ball is. It bounces off his head and hits the bill of his cap. Bounces off his cap and Cuddyer manages to grab it.

You will be seeing this play many times over on BBTN.

2008-05-12 18:29:35
72.   claybeez
How many hits do the TB OF'ers take away? Man, Robby and Melky drove the ball with nothing to show for it.
2008-05-12 18:32:21
73.   williamnyy23
70 More importantly, if Santana isn't a super pitcher (Clemens, Johnson, Schilling, Maddux) and he has begun his decline phase, then he would have become yet another albatross contract. When you consider that Giambi, Abreu, Damon, Matsui, Mussina and Pettitte are likely to be gone after this year or next...and guys like Posada and Jeter likely could be starting their inevitable declines, it really would have been a counterproductive move to make that deal.
2008-05-12 18:33:16
74.   claybeez
Gutierrez robs Stairs of a hit with a nice diving catch. Preserves Cliff Lee's shutout. 0-0 going into btm of the 9th.
2008-05-12 18:33:18
75.   williamnyy23
72 I think Robbie is emerging from his cocoon and Melky is reaching the point where we have to start taking his progress seriously.
2008-05-12 18:36:29
76.   Just fair
Is it me or would any of the Rays outfielders caught that bloop easily. Bullocks.
2008-05-12 18:43:23
77.   tommyl
66 I'll say this again. They are currently missing their best two offensive players, both of which play key positions. The comparables, as I said before for the Sox would be to take away Manny and Ortiz. How would they be doing then? What if Varitek went down? You can mumble all you want about sucking things up, but the dropoff from A-Rod and Posada to Molina and AG/Ensberg is just huge. Also, I never expected this team to dominate this year, especially not early. Its a transition year, if these growing pains are the necessary first step to rebuilding a dynasty, I'm all for it. Have some patience.
2008-05-12 18:45:02
78.   OldYanksFan
Red Sox 3 outs away from a loss. We ARE in competition with the Sox, right?
2008-05-12 18:47:31
79.   Mattpat11
77 I actually have more patience than usual this year. If the Yankees are going to lose with Hughes an kennedy, I can accept ir.

If we keep throwing out Kei Igawa to try and prove that THIS WASN'T A BAD SINGING! PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE MAN BEHIND HE CURTAIN! I have significantly less patience.

2008-05-12 18:49:59
80.   williamnyy23
78 At this point, I am not even interested in the Sox anymore. First, the Yankees need to realize some player-related milestones: the return of Arod and Posada, some signs that Jeter is not in a significant decline, definitive proof that Cano is ready to play like an All-Star, evidence that Kennedy does belong in the majors, etc.

The Yankees really need a lot of questions answered before you can start worrying about this place in the standing this season. As 77 stated, if a rebuild becomes necessary this season, the Yankees should embrace it whole heartedly, even if the team's fans do not.

2008-05-12 18:51:24
81.   williamnyy23
79 Although, if this does become a rebuild and the Yankees can get something back for Moose or Pettitte, wouldn't it make sense to give Igawa some more starts, if only to re-build his trade value?
2008-05-12 18:53:51
82.   williamnyy23
Jeter walks...a silver lining!
2008-05-12 18:54:23
83.   tommyl
79 Well Igawa is in the pen (and soon to go down) and IPK is coming back up. So, you're getting your wish. I'm fine with Rasner pitching, he's been very underrated, and while I don't think he's quite as good as he's been, he may become a very strong 4th/5th starter type. If he can eat innings than he's not a bad replacement for Moose after this year. If all things work out (which they are unlikely to do) you could have a rotation of Wang, Joba, Hughes, IPK and Rasner next year. With Cano, A-Rod, Jeter, Posada and Melky locked in you need a serviceable 1B, and then an OF or two, depending on how Ajax, Gardner and Tabata progress. Sounds like a pretty good team to me.
2008-05-12 18:54:48
84.   Mattpat11
81 No.

First of all, I think allowing Igawa to pitch will only result in more atrocious Kei Igawa outings, which would not raise his trade value.

More importantly, trading Igawa would be like admitting a mistake, which Yankee management doesn't do.

2008-05-12 18:55:32
85.   tommyl
81 They are not going to trade Andy, no way, no how. He was straight up with them in the offseason, I know its a business, but I just can't seem them shipping him off anywhere else. Doesn't he have a no trade or something anyways?
2008-05-12 18:56:44
86.   Mattpat11
83 I will not be satisfied until Kei Igawa is out of the organization. He's a horror movie villain. Every time you think he's dead he pops back up.
2008-05-12 18:58:42
87.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
84 they traded the Fat Toad after a year..Igawa was expensive but should be traded asap. Can't help thinking Cashman blew it on the signings, what on earth were the scouting reports saying?? he's not even close to Dice-K in terms of stuff or pitching prowess..
2008-05-12 18:59:10
88.   Schteeve
Don't look know but the Yankees suck.
2008-05-12 18:59:54
89.   williamnyy23
84 As bad as Igawa has looked, I would definitely use the opportunity of a rebuild to see if Igawa could flash something. As bad as he has been, 70 IP is far from a definitive sample. After all, I think Dice-K had an ERA around 6 in his final 70 innings of last season.
2008-05-12 19:01:14
90.   williamnyy23
85 That suggestion was made on the assumption that he wanted to go.
2008-05-12 19:01:36
91.   Schteeve
81 Re build his trade value by giving him MORE starts. That's a good one! Holy crap that's funny. Rebuild his....more starts. Wooohooo! Stop it yer killin me!
2008-05-12 19:02:20
92.   Travis08
Old friend Sean Henn made his Padres debut today. It went as well as you'd expect.
2008-05-12 19:02:21
93.   Mattpat11
87 Irabu was on the team for three seasons.
2008-05-12 19:04:33
94.   claybeez
Henn comes in vs Cubs...1st inning gives up a hit, then gets a double play and a K. Next inning, not so much, gives up a 5 spot. Take that to the bank.
2008-05-12 19:04:53
95.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
93 memory fails me..thanks. I shouldn7t make fun of him anyway, read an article about his childhood here in Japan, he was bullied mercilessly for being "half" and even today still won't talk about his absent "foreign" dad... as for Igawa, why not just eat the money???
2008-05-12 19:04:59
96.   Mattpat11
93 I also think Brian Cashman is far more likely to trade away a bad signing that wasn;t his idea (Irabu, Wright) than a bad signing he wanted (Pavano, Farnsworth, Igawa)
2008-05-12 19:05:14
97.   williamnyy23
87 But they got quality back for the Toad...believe it or not, Irabu netted the Yankees Lilly and Westbrook. Also, here was the quote from Loria upon Irabu's acquisition:

"Hideki is a tremendous addition to our rotation and will be one of our top starters," new Expos owner Jeffrey Loria said. "We will continue to strengthen the club in all areas as we head toward spring training."

Read that quote and realize there is a sucker born every minute (like the Yankees were for signing him in the first place). Simply cutting Igawa because you are angry at his ineffectiveness would be counterproductive.

2008-05-12 19:05:44
98.   Mattpat11
89 Brian?
2008-05-12 19:06:13
99.   Schteeve
92 Given the Yankees luck, I'd expect that he stuck out all 27 batters he faced on three pitches each.
2008-05-12 19:10:37
100.   Travis08
97 I was in Montreal when the Expos acquired Irabu and Graeme Lloyd (as a free agent). The local English-language paper put the combined transactions at the top of the sports section.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-05-12 19:11:30
101.   williamnyy23
Just to further illustrate the point, Irabu had an ERA over 7 in his first 50 innings with the Yankees. He then rebounded to have two league averagish seasons before the Yankees dumped him for two pretty good pitching prospects.

Igawa, meanwhile, had a 6 ERA over 67 innings in his first season. Who knows...maybe the Yankees could eke a league average 100 innings from Igawa in the second half, especially if it is during the pressureless environment of a rebuild. If that happened and the Yankees traded him for one decent prospect, then it would be a huge coup.

The alternative is just to cut bait. I don't see the point of that.

2008-05-12 19:13:22
102.   Schteeve
It's nice to see Giambi hitting long flyballs to left. Even if they are outs.
2008-05-12 19:19:18
103.   Schteeve
In 98 and 99 Irabu looked pretty good. I think it's attributable to the fact that he almost cut his walk rate in half.

Igawa didn't walk anyone on Sat and still got lit up like the 4th of july. Small sample for sure, but I see no flashes of brilliance on that dudes ML resume.

2008-05-12 19:20:37
104.   Shaun P
101 william, for once, you and I are in complete agreement.
2008-05-12 19:23:05
105.   Mattpat11
101 To be honest, I don't even see Irabu potential in Igawa. Even when Irabu was horrendous in the big leagues, he dominated minor leaguers. Igawa can't even do that.

There is something to be said for the ability to admit a mistake.

2008-05-12 19:24:30
106.   williamnyy23
103 If you really break down Irabu's splits, he really only had 3 good months over those two years. I think that illustrates that even a small flash at the major league level could get one GM thinking he could mine gold.
2008-05-12 19:27:46
107.   williamnyy23
105 I am not sure if you remember 1997, but I didn't see any potential in Irabu that year. He was awful...worse than Igawa.

Also, Irabu was not much better than Igawa in the minors. Both struck out 1 per inning and had low WHIPs. Igawa's ERA was a 1 run higher, but that could be attributable to park effects, era or simply small sample.

In other words, there is no reason Igawa can't be another Irabu.

2008-05-12 19:30:22
108.   williamnyy23
107 In fact, Irabu had only 46 minor league innings while a Yankee, so I don't think you can look at that record for any meaningful conclusion. The other 45 minor league innings were while with Montreal.
2008-05-12 19:36:24
109.   williamnyy23
Girardi just said Garza threw one breaking ball for a strike and simply came after the Yankees with fastballs with all strikes. I stopped paying attention, but if true, that's pretty scary.
2008-05-12 19:38:14
110.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
I keep hearing about how much Girardi hates losing and how "fiery" he about a Leyland style eruption in the locker-room? do these work anymore? would the "veterans" resent it?? The team just seems so listless..or do I just still have a man-crush on Sweet Lou?
2008-05-12 19:38:33
111.   Mattpat11
107 Irabu's minor league ERA in 1997 was over a run and a half lower than Igawa's and his WHIP was .25 points lower than Igawa's minor league WHIP.

He didn't start pitching to Igawa levels of minor league mediocrity until 2001, long after anyone saw any hope in him. Montreal cut bait after that year.

I think Kei Igawa matches up far better with Hideki Irabu 2001-2002 than he does Hideki Irabu 1997

2008-05-12 19:41:55
112.   Mattpat11
111 That should be 2000-2001
2008-05-12 19:42:27
113.   tommyl
I'm not quite clear on what "admitting" a mistake on Igawa means. The posting fee is a sunk cost, we're not getting that back. That leaves his salary, which is under $5 mil a year. For the Yankees, that's almost chump change. Trust me, next offseason the decision to sign Texeira will not hinge on Igawa's salary. I see nothing wrong with keeping him around (in the minors) and seeing if you can get some value for him. Cutting bait seems counterproductive since you're on the hook for the contract no matter what. William, I couldn't agree with you more. Also, I do not want to see him anywhere near the mound in the Yankee Stadium again, so Matt, I agree with you. Can't we all just get along?
2008-05-12 19:43:42
114.   tommyl
110 Who says he hasn't? Just because he doesn't yell in public doesn't mean he's not chewing them out from time to time. I think Joe learned from Torre to keep things in house. Call out a player or throw a tantrum in public and it'll be a story for months, becoming counterproductive.
2008-05-12 19:47:50
115.   Mattpat11
113 If he's still in the organization, I don't trust them to not bring him back.

Getting rid of him is like taking a sharp object away from a child. For their own good.

2008-05-12 19:54:21
116.   Mattpat11
115 Also, if the Pavano and Farnsworth debacles are any indication, if they can't fleece another team, they;ll just hold on to him until the end of time.
2008-05-12 19:58:30
117.   williamnyy23
115 If the Yankees remain in contention, your point is valid, but if they enter a rebuild, why not see if you can squeeze blood out of the Igawa stone

116 What's wrong with holding out for a good deal. The only tangible deals I can remember with Fransworth or Pavano were eating the contract and taking a Wickman-type back. If you can't get lucky and pull off an Irabu-like deal, I see nothing wrong with holding.

2008-05-12 20:15:34
118.   Mattpat11
117 If the Yankees fall out of contention, I'd want to see Kei Igawa sucking it up even less. I think Kei igawa is as bad as he appears to be, and all we would accomplish is making the second half of the season even more unpleasant.

I think there's a difference between waiting for a good deal and waiting for someone to offer well above equal value for a player. The philosophy seems to be that unless we can trick someone into matching our stupidity, we should hold on to the player an allow them to continue to hurt the franchise.

2008-05-12 22:14:51
119.   Schteeve
You guys do realize that Farnsworth has an ERA+ of 123 this season right?
2008-05-12 22:17:31
120.   Schteeve
Sorry, I meant 137. His ERA+ in 2006 was 104. He was lousy last year, but I wouldn't call him a debacle.
2008-05-12 22:35:46
121.   Mattpat11
I'd say a league average season from your primary set-up man is a debacle. If the eighth inning guy is giving up around a run every two innings, that's no damned good.

On May 13 2006, Farnsworth had a 3.07 ERA. His semi-annual hot streak does not make me any more confident in his abilities as a late inning reliever.

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