Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
Detroit Tigers
2008-04-29 12:42
by Cliff Corcoran

Detroit Tigers

2007 Record: 88-74 (.543)
2007 Pythagorean Record: 90-72 (.553)

Manager: Jim Leyland
General Manager: Dave Dombrowski

Home Ballpark (multi-year Park Factors): Comerica Park (101/101)

Who's Replacing Whom:

Miguel Cabrera replaces Sean Casey
Jacque Jones replaces Craig Monroe
Edgar Renteria replaces Brandon Inge in the lineup
Brandon Inge replaces Mike Rabelo on the bench
Ramon Santiago takes over Omar Infante's playing time
Armando Galarraga is filling in for Dontrelle Willis (DL)
Dontrelle Willis (DL) replaces Andrew Miller and Chad Durbin
Kenny Rogers takes back starts from Jair Jurrjens and Mike Maroth
Aquilino Lopez is filling in for Fernando Rodney (DL)
Denny Bautista is filling in for Joel Zumaya (DL) and replacing Wil Ledezma Clay Rapada is taking over for Tim Byrdak and Macay McBride

25-man Roster:

1B - Miguel Cabrera (R)
2B - Placido Polanco (R)
SS - Edgar Renteria (R)
3B - Carlos Guillen (S)
C - Ivan Rodriguez (R)
RF - Magglio Ordoñez (R)
CF - Curtis Granderson (L)
LF - Jacque Jones (L)
DH - Gary Sheffield (R)


UT - Brandon Inge (R)
OF - Marcus Thames (R)
OF - Ryan Raburn (R)
IF - Ramon Santiago (R)


R - Justin Verlander
L - Kenny Rogers
R - Jeremy Bonderman
L - Nate Robertson
R - Armando Galarraga


R - Todd Jones
R - Jason Grilli
L - Bobby Seay
R - Aquilino Lopez
R - Denny Bautista
R - Zach Miner
L - Clay Rapada

15-day DL: L - Dontrelle Willis, R - Joel Zumaya, R - Fernando Rodney, R - Vance Wilson (C)

Restricted List: R - Francisco Cruceta

Typical Lineup:

L - Curtis Granderson (CF)
R - Placido Polanco (2B)
R - Gary Sheffield (DH)
R - Magglio Ordoñez (RF)
R - Miguel Cabrera (1B)
S - Carlos Guillen (3B)
R - Edgar Renteria (SS)
R - Ivan Rodriguez (C)
L - Jacque Jones (LF)

The Tigers made a big splash during the offseason with a pair of high-profile, win-now trades. First they traded talented 21-year-old starter Jair Jurrjens and center field prospect Gorkys Hernandez to the Braves for All-Star shortstop Edgar Renteria. Then they pulled off an utter blockbuster by trading a six-player package headed by their top hitting prospect, center fielder Cameron Maybin, and top pitching prospect, tall lefty Andrew Miller, to the Marlins for Florida's best hitter, 25-year-old superstar third baseman Miguel Cabrera, and pitcher, 26-year-old lefty Dontrelle Willis.

With Renteria, replacing the punchless Sean Casey via Carlos Guillen's move to first base (he's since swapped positions with the defensively challenged Cabrera), and Cabrera joining what was the third-most potent offense in baseball last season, and Willis and a healthy Kenny Rogers filling out a solid rotation built around youngsters Justin Verlander and a healthy Jeremy Bonderman, the Tigers were expected to crush a lot this year. Then they opened the season by losing seven straight while scoring just 2.14 runs per game and allowing an average of 6.29.

What's wrong with the Tigers? Here are a few answers:

1) Injuries: Center fielder and leadoff man Curtis Granderson missed the first 21 games of the season because of a finger that was fractured by a pitch late in spring training. Cabrera got off to a slow start (2 for 20) while slowed by a sore quadriceps. Guillen, despite the position switch, missed a couple of games early due to a hamstring and a few more recently after fouling a pitch off his knee. Second baseman Placido Polanco has missed several games while battling lower back problems and a sore left hip flexor. Gary Sheffield is still bothered by his bad shoulder, recently missing five straight games as a result. Willis hyperextended his knee two batters into his second start and is still on the DL. In the bullpen, neither of the team's two ace setup men, Joel Zumaya and Fernando Rodney, has thrown a pitch this season. Zumaya had offseason shoulder surgery after suffering an injury while moving his belongings during the California wild fires. Rodney was shut down at the beginning of spring training with shoulder tendinitis and has suffered repeated setbacks since.

2) The Rotation: The Tigers missed the playoffs last year because of a vicious August slump that was largely the result of bad starting pitching. From July 20 to August 23, the Tigers went 0-7-3 in series and 11-23 overall. Here are their starters' ERAs from that stretch:

5.32 Nate Robertson (7 GS)
5.95 Justin Verlander (7 GS)
8.41 Jeremy Bonderman (6 GS)
8.56 Andrew Miller (3 GS)
7.90 Chad Durbin (3 GS)
7.71 Jordan Tata (3 GS)
15.75 Kenny Rogers (1 GS)
5.14 Jair Jurrjens (1 GS)
3.60 Virgil Vasquez (1 GS)

Here are the Tigers' starters' ERAs thus far this year:

6.50 Justin Verlander (6 GS)
4.28 Jeremy Bonderman (5 GS)
6.91 Nate Robertson (5 GS)
7.66 Kenny Rogers (5 GS)
1.50 Armando Galarraga (3 GS)
5.79 Dontrelle Willis (2 GS)

Only the Pirates have a worse rotation ERA than the Tigers' 5.74 thus far this season.

3) Nothing: The Tigers bottomed out at 2-9, but since then have gone 9-6 while scoring 6.47 runs per game and allowing a respectable 4.27 R/G.

As for the Yankees, they've swapped out Chris Britton for Edwar Ramirez, whose ten days in the minor leagues are up. There's still no official news on Posada's shoulder, but Pete Abe reports that the word is that he won't need surgery, though it sounds like Posada's going to get a few more opinions. Brian Bruney is also looking for more opinions before putting his foot under the knife.

Chris Stewart gets his first start behind the plate as a Yankee tonight against Kenny Rogers. Rogers was solid against the Royals in his first start of the year, but has a 9.16 ERA in his four appearances since then. Morgan Ensberg plays third tonight in place of the injured Alex Rodriguez (quad). Melky Cabrera gets the night off with Damon in center, Matsu in left, Giambi at DH, and Shelley Duncan at first base behind Phil Hughes. Hughes looked good in his two innings in Chicago before the rain ended his evening. Here's hoping he builds on that tonight.

Comments (399)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-04-29 14:59:10
1.   Schteeve
Here's hoping Hughes throws a shut out cause I don't see the Yankees scoring too many runs tonight. No A-Rod, Posada, or Melky. Sheesh.
2008-04-29 15:01:44
2.   Mattpat11
I think we can take two here
2008-04-29 15:38:00
3.   williamnyy23
We joke about it often, and I realize I spend way too much time on the topic, but what in the world do the Yankees have against Chris Britton. In 66 major league innings, he has an ERA+ of 134 with a WHIP of 1.15. In 316 innings in the minors, he has a 2.88 ERA with a WHIP of 1.15 and 329 Ks. He has been equally effective at every level of the minors.

Based on the evidence presented above, why on Earth do the Yankees refuse to give him a chance. In this latest round, Britton was recalled and never used, and then sent down in favor of Edwar. If you never planned on using him, why promote him in the first place? Amazingly, the Yankees didn't even let him pitch in Spring Training. I just checked the stats and Britton threw 5 innings all spring.

Not only is it amazing that the Yankees wont use him, but I also can't believe Britton hasn't had a tirade about his treatment. Bewildering!

2008-04-29 15:53:20
4.   Cliff Corcoran
3 To be fair, there was a rules crunch here. Edwar, whose numbers have just been off the charts good in Scranton thus far (9 IP, 13 K, 2 H, 1 BB) and who pitched well in his one outing in the majors, couldn't be recalled until he had spent ten days in the minors. The Yanks took Britton as a warm body in case the bullpen was really taxed. It wasn't, they didn't use him, and now that Edwar is eligible again, they've brought him back. It's a good sign that Britton was next on their list. Don't get hung up on it. I expect to see a lot of movement at bottom of the pen's depth chart this year. Britton will be back.
2008-04-29 15:54:07
5.   Cliff Corcoran
1 Did you look at Rogers' ERA?
2008-04-29 15:56:09
6.   standuptriple
3 I hear you. With you they got rid of to obtain him, you'd think they'd want to get at least some return on all those wasted $'s. Not even much of a sniff to bait other teams into biting on him in a deal? A throw-in? Something?
2008-04-29 15:57:31
7.   standuptriple
6 With WHO they got rid of. Sheesh. Burnout.
5 I want at least 2 of this series.
2008-04-29 16:02:55
8.   williamnyy23
4 I wouldn't have minded seeing him last night or in the Saturday game, but I see your point. Of course, that doesn't explain his inactivity last year and this Spring (maybe he was injured, but I don't recall). Maybe if the Yankees cut bait on Hawkins, Britton will be the replacement, but I won't hold my breath that he'lla ctually get to pitch.
2008-04-29 16:07:19
9.   williamnyy23
You're at Yankee Stadium Mike!
2008-04-29 16:08:24
10.   Just fair
Dear Phil,
Please get outta the 1st under 30 pitches.
The B. B.
2008-04-29 16:08:42
11.   Zack
Hughes blows on his hand all the freaking time...
2008-04-29 16:09:19
12.   williamnyy23
An ominous beginning. Hughes has to start throwing strikes.
2008-04-29 16:10:37
13.   williamnyy23
This could get ugly fast.
2008-04-29 16:10:43
14.   tommyl
ugh...pleaseeeeee pitch well tonight Phil. Pleaassseeee
2008-04-29 16:11:13
15.   fansince77
good start phil.
2008-04-29 16:11:16
16.   williamnyy23
I'd at least like to see some swings and misses.
2008-04-29 16:12:39
17.   Zack
Forget whether he went around, that yacker to Sheff was nas-tay and a strike
2008-04-29 16:13:18
18.   Zack
13 Would you stop trying to prove that your opinions on Hughes are right? You sound like you WANT him to fail...
2008-04-29 16:13:21
19.   williamnyy23
17 Why did the HP umpire even need to appeal?
2008-04-29 16:14:13
20.   Zack
Ugh, more terrible fielding
2008-04-29 16:14:35
21.   tommyl
Why the fuck is Melky not in CF tonight? Hughes on the mound so lets play our backup backup backup catcher and a crappy CF.
2008-04-29 16:15:01
22.   ny2ca2dc
fucking victimized by the D already. Though it looks like that was a shitty pitch
2008-04-29 16:15:08
23.   Zack
y should damon be stunned someone is running on his crap ass arm?
2008-04-29 16:15:08
24.   Zack
y should damon be stunned someone is running on his crap ass arm?
2008-04-29 16:15:08
25.   williamnyy23
18 No...I WANT him the Yankees to win and Hughes to develop properly. I don't WANT to see him pitch three innings every game.

Playing Damon has already cost the Yankees two runs. Why would Girardi compromise his defense so much with Hughes on the mound.

Bad pitching and bad managing to start this game.

2008-04-29 16:15:24
26.   fansince77
That was fucking horrible...
Hughes putting himself in a shithole
Damon misplaying and then being made a fool of.........UGH.
2008-04-29 16:16:38
27.   ny2ca2dc
Presumably Damon in is CF because is supposed to be a groundballing high K pitcher. Damon just fucked that up in so many ways though.
2008-04-29 16:16:44
28.   Zack
2008-04-29 16:16:46
29.   fansince77
Where is Melkman tonight? If anyone does NOT need to come out of the lineup it's HIM!
2008-04-29 16:17:13
30.   ny2ca2dc
27 ...because Hughes is supposed...
2008-04-29 16:17:24
31.   Just fair
22 I couldn't agree more. The only thing I can imagine is Melky is nursing something unbeknonst to us. Other that that, it's b.s. he' not out there.
2008-04-29 16:17:50
32.   Zack
I feel like not only would Melky have caught that ball, but certainly 2 runs would not have scored, and perhaps none would have. That is an amazing swing between him and Damon
2008-04-29 16:18:18
33.   weeping for brunnhilde
I missed the first. How'd he throw?

And why in the hell is Melky sitting?

Is he tired?

2008-04-29 16:18:22
34.   williamnyy23
27 But he hasn't been...Damon in CF is a flat out bonehead move.
2008-04-29 16:18:36
35.   ny2ca2dc
I really think the only time Damon should be started in CF (baring oppsies) is when Wang is on the mound
2008-04-29 16:19:07
36.   williamnyy23
35 Not even...when Melky is hurt only.
2008-04-29 16:20:07
37.   ny2ca2dc
36 Well, Melky will need a day off now and then. Wasn't suggesting Damon be Wang's regular CF, but that you try to schedule Melk's days off around the Wanger
2008-04-29 16:20:28
38.   Zack
Its like Girardi and the Yanks treat Hughes's starts as mulligans or something...Starting damon AND the new catcher is pretty hard to justify...

And this team better freaking hit Rogers, who of course, I cannot stand

2008-04-29 16:20:51
39.   Zack
Way to go Derek
2008-04-29 16:21:00
40.   Just fair
Barry Ziito is sitting in a bullpen somewhere just dreaming that he could pitch against the Yankees.
2008-04-29 16:21:02
41.   ny2ca2dc
38 Check his hand for 'dirt'
2008-04-29 16:21:04
42.   weeping for brunnhilde
Good old first-pitch-swinging Derek.
2008-04-29 16:21:08
43.   fansince77
That curve to Damon was NOT a strike - definition of AROUND THE PLATE.
2008-04-29 16:21:43
44.   williamnyy23
37 Fair enough.

Another first pitch swing by Jeter and another fast and easy out. Jeter has been horrendous this year and is a big reason why this offense has been awful. Girardi needs to address this lack of patience.

2008-04-29 16:21:44
45.   ny2ca2dc
43 Overhead shoot looked good
2008-04-29 16:21:52
46.   fansince77
Jeter first pitch swinging? shocked!
Hit another squibber? shocked!
2008-04-29 16:23:02
47.   cult of basebaal
anybody else getting the finger from tonite?
2008-04-29 16:23:06
48.   ny2ca2dc
I just don't get this from Jete. Sure, he's never been an Abreu, but doesn't the normal aging pattern suggest MORE patience and discipline, not a dramatic falloff?!
2008-04-29 16:23:39
49.   williamnyy23
Criticism on YES? How refreshing.
2008-04-29 16:23:59
50.   weeping for brunnhilde
Kay: "But they've already cost themself a run in center field with that move."

Cone: "Yeah, well, point taken."

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-04-29 16:24:34
51.   weeping for brunnhilde
Wow, Kay's really digging into this.

Good on him.

2008-04-29 16:24:36
52.   ny2ca2dc
50 Lieter
2008-04-29 16:24:43
53.   williamnyy23
48 Jeter has been very patient in the past. His OBP is .390! This is out of character and worthy of concern.
2008-04-29 16:26:53
54.   weeping for brunnhilde
Oh my God!

Did I just see Matsui hit it hard through the hole on the left side?

Did someone dose my coffee?

2008-04-29 16:27:25
55.   Just fair
Memo to Giambi. 2 out hits with risp in not against the law.
2008-04-29 16:27:36
56.   weeping for brunnhilde
52 Of course, Leiter. They're really similar in my head.
2008-04-29 16:27:42
57.   williamnyy23
54 If Giambi does it you have a scoop.
2008-04-29 16:28:02
58.   Zack
Sigh, no surprise there
2008-04-29 16:28:14
59.   weeping for brunnhilde
Nice pop up there, Jason.

Christ on a fucking stick.

2008-04-29 16:28:27
60.   tommyl
Excellent job Jason. Way to see some pitches, work the count and pop out on the second pitch. AWESOME
2008-04-29 16:29:03
61.   williamnyy23
That's about as bad a first inning as you could ask for: Hughes doesn't locate his fastball; Damon screw up on defense; Jeter hacks away at the first pitch; and Giambi continues the Yankees futility with men on base.
2008-04-29 16:29:14
62.   weeping for brunnhilde
57 Indeed.

Still and all, it's nice to see Hideki do it. Lately he's been dribbling it to second an awful lot.

2008-04-29 16:29:23
63.   ny2ca2dc
53 I mean from more of a pitches per PA perspective. I'm assuming the falloff in pitches per PA is (helping) cause the falloff in OBP. But exactly, why the hell is is iso patience suffering so bad. His iso patience is frigin 20! It should be 70!

I suppose one theory could be that pitchers are pounding the zone more as his power fades, and he's hacking more (less pitches per PA) pick_one{out of frustration, to try to compensate, we're just noticing it more and it's not true}

2008-04-29 16:29:48
64.   Zack
61 I could think of a lot worse 1st innings
2008-04-29 16:29:54
65.   tommyl
Dear Yankee front office. Brett Gardner is really, really good at fielding CF. I hear he can throw more than 6 feet as well.
2008-04-29 16:30:58
66.   williamnyy23
Also nice to see Girardi stack all the lefties together. It's not like RHB have a 1.005 OPS against Rogers this season (.541 against LHB).
2008-04-29 16:32:04
67.   williamnyy23
63 Whatever the reason, he should be able to take a pitch. It's a lack of discipline that needs to be corrected.
2008-04-29 16:32:17
68.   ny2ca2dc
This is really why I think Damon should be traded. He's hitting just fine now, and hopefully he'll continue, but like Goldman said, he's not exactly redefining play out in left, and suxorz in center. He still has trade value, and this team has other needs.
2008-04-29 16:33:00
69.   Zack
I really don't get Hughes' control. I mean, from the way he reacts, the wildness of some of the pitches, and with the hand blowing thing, its almost like he hasn't been able to grip his pitches right?
2008-04-29 16:33:23
70.   Yankees Brasil
I'm glad we start to suck early in the game. It's always a pleasure to watch Giambi pop up with men on base.
2008-04-29 16:33:24
71.   williamnyy23
68 Signing Bonds and moving Damon or Giambi makes all the sense in the world.
2008-04-29 16:34:54
72.   Just fair
Rogers is someone I can imagine Frankeshelly mashing. Roger is somone I can imagaine makinng Giambi pop up meekly. So far, 1 for 2.
2008-04-29 16:35:10
73.   williamnyy23
69 My concern is that is a mechanical issue. Everyone is concerned about velocity, but what I have noticed is that Hughes can't control his fastball once it goes above 90mph. His velocity may be down because he doesn't feel he can control it.

I would much rather have Hughes work on these things in the minors (i.e., throw only fastballs, etc.) then rack up losses in the majors.

2008-04-29 16:36:12
74.   ny2ca2dc
67 Maybe New Joe doesn't' deserve his rep as a drill sergeant even with the vets. I see him giving a lot of leeway to those guys, the fitness stuff notwithstanding. Where the hell is the touted Kevin Long, too?

71 Frank Thomas would've been an easier move (PR-wise; not looking to argue it, but it is a fact), and is(was) right handed. Too late!

2008-04-29 16:37:40
75.   Zack
Its like Hughes gets walked and singled and bad defensed to death. Clearly the "stuff" is there, at least evidenced by the lack of tons of XBHs, but the control is just killing him
2008-04-29 16:37:46
76.   Yankees Brasil
I would really like to see some 1-2-3 innings from our young starters. And this new catcher, doesn't look that impressive huh.
2008-04-29 16:39:41
77.   ny2ca2dc
76 It looks like the gear is way to big for him. Looks like a 12 year old. I'd love to see PJ Pilliete get a taste, depending on Po's prognosis.
2008-04-29 16:39:53
78.   tommyl
75 That will come with experience. He's been aggressive so far tonight, he's ahead in most counts and his command has improved. He didn't help himself that first inning but with Melky in center its likely no runs would have scored.
2008-04-29 16:40:29
79.   williamnyy23
74 Bonds is much better than Thomas though.

75 What I think is killing him is he can't get his fastball by batters. Nearly every swing and miss is on the curve. Without a third pitch, I don't see how Hughes will be successful with a 91-92mph fastball he can't command and can't get by batters.

2008-04-29 16:41:02
80.   tommyl
I also don't understand Girardi's lineup tonight. You know Hughes has been scuffling, why not give him the best possible defense, the catcher he's comfortable with (Molina) and better offense behind him? Its like Joe is setting him up to fail. I don't like it.
2008-04-29 16:41:07
81.   Zack
And, I would definitely say that the lack of swinging K's is from his control issues...
2008-04-29 16:44:01
82.   ny2ca2dc
Hey look, a quality at bat! screw the results, I'll take this!
2008-04-29 16:45:14
83.   ny2ca2dc
And look, results follow from approach! Eureka!
2008-04-29 16:45:19
84.   Zack
79 i disagree completely. First off, he's already thrown changeups today. But hes been a strikeout pitcher before, and the logical assumption is that with his command will come the strike outs. You're pulling the velocity argument, which you've already yourself refuted. 91, 93 whatever, it won't make a difference if he can't control it..

Hughes is already able to prevent extra base hits and Hrs thus far, and whereas you see someone who can't be successful, I see someone who is most of the way there and just missing one key piece that he has already shown he has...YOu really are constantly taking the negative position on Hughes

2008-04-29 16:45:28
85.   Mattpat11
Michael Kay has to be the worst announcer in baseball at reading outfielders.
2008-04-29 16:45:54
86.   tommyl
Oh wow, offense! I remember that!
2008-04-29 16:45:55
87.   weeping for brunnhilde
Wow, check out Robby!

Way to go, Robby.

2008-04-29 16:46:47
88.   Yankees Brasil
Oh Robbie, thank you! Let's hope this is your turn around.
2008-04-29 16:46:58
89.   tommyl
Dear Chris Stewart,

Don't get too comfortable.


Yankee fans

2008-04-29 16:47:41
90.   williamnyy23
84 That's my point...if he can't spot his fastball and can't throw it by batters, he needs to have two other plus pitches to succeed. I realize he has had a very good fastball in the past (we saw it in Texas), but it isn't there now. COnsidering his age and assuming he is healthy, the only conclusion that I can come to is he has a mechanical flaw that might best be worked on in the minors. If Hughes still is having trouble commanding the fastball over the next 4-5 starts, I wouldn't hesitate to demote him.
2008-04-29 16:48:06
91.   fansince77
Now that's the guy I Cano and love.
2008-04-29 16:49:00
92.   ny2ca2dc
It's also real nice to see Cano smiling that big smile.

Lets lump up Rogers right here.

2008-04-29 16:50:17
93.   Zack
90 Yes, by 5 more starts, I would consider it, as we are talking about the end of may, I would think thats reasonable...
2008-04-29 16:50:38
94.   OldYanksFan
Evening all. Bummed out already. 80 I agree. If Melky needs rest, do it when Wang pitches.

Damon should not be in CF, but Matsui should not be in LF either. I like Bonds (as a LHB in YS, he is far more valuable then F.Thomas) but he's a DH and would replace Mats, who is our best batter so far.

Mats is a better batter then JD, but can't run or field. JD is still a decent LFer and can run. I hear AJax and Tabata are both above average with the glove. I can't wait.


2008-04-29 16:51:37
95.   Yankees Brasil
When one finds it, the other one loses it. Now Jeter struggling.
2008-04-29 16:52:44
96.   Zack
hmm, now THAT is not a good sign
2008-04-29 16:54:18
97.   Yankees Brasil
That was pathetic. Right down the middle. When you throw 90mph, can't throw it there.
2008-04-29 16:54:37
98.   williamnyy23
Right now, Hughes is a one pitch pitcher. His curve is pretty good, but it seems like the hitters can just sit on and feast off the fastball. Regardless of how we feel about Hughes, I think we can all agree that this isn't Hughes fastball and he isn't going to be successful until he finds it.
2008-04-29 16:55:04
99.   Zack
97 No. When you throw 99 you can't throw it there either. Enough with the velocity obsessions!
2008-04-29 16:56:07
100.   Yankees Brasil
This is horrible. I hope he keeps the ball in this galaxy when facing Sheff.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-04-29 16:56:13
101.   williamnyy23
Off the top of my head, are there any pitchers that the Yankees could acquire if they have demote Kennedy and/or Hughes? The only team I can see packing it in early is Texas, so maybe Kevin Milwood?
2008-04-29 16:56:40
102.   Zack
What the hell is going on with these cross ups and Hughes?
2008-04-29 16:57:03
103.   williamnyy23
99 Like it or not, velocity is an issue. Everything works off the fastball, and right now Hughes' is mediocre.
2008-04-29 16:57:19
104.   Yankees Brasil
What the fuck? Is this catcher blind or what? What a retard.
2008-04-29 16:57:42
105.   pistolpete
Triple A please, now. Pack his bags.
2008-04-29 16:57:44
106.   ny2ca2dc
New record for crossups in april
2008-04-29 16:57:54
107.   Zack
I still don't understand why they would throw out the new catcher with Hughes...This sucks
2008-04-29 16:58:05
108.   randym77
I think this counts as "tons of XBH." :-P
2008-04-29 16:58:28
109.   fansince77
way to bounce back phil.
2008-04-29 16:58:32
110.   williamnyy23
You simply can't get by throwing only a curve. Sheffield hasn't been able to get around on a fastball all year, and yet Hughes can't get one by him. I am willing to wait 4-5 more starts, but I don't think the Yankees will wait that long. Right now, Hughes is not ready for the major leagues.
2008-04-29 16:58:42
111.   Just fair
Well, strike 3 turned into a 2 run hr. Nice crossup dumbasses.
2008-04-29 16:58:49
112.   Mattpat11
2008-04-29 16:59:12
113.   Yankees Brasil
Wow, Tampa is waiting for you Mr. Hughes.
2008-04-29 16:59:21
114.   Zack
103 Velocity is NOT his issue right now. Focusing on his velocity is totally missing the point. Mechanics, as you suggested, would seem to be far more of an issue, and confidence is CLEARLY an issue. Sure, it would be great if he threw harder, but with his location, it really doesn't matter right now
2008-04-29 17:00:07
115.   Zack
105 [113 Go away if thats the attitude you are going to take
2008-04-29 17:01:02
116.   ny2ca2dc
Where is Dave Eiland?
2008-04-29 17:01:05
117.   pistolpete
115 So you'd just assume let him go 3 innings every start and give up 5-6 runs every time?

AAA might actually do him some good. He's 21 fercrissakes.

2008-04-29 17:01:46
118.   Mattpat11
So, what do you guys think about Chris Stewart?
2008-04-29 17:01:50
119.   nick
I'd give him 3-4 more starts, but right now he looks like a guy who doubts his own stuff, and--what's worse--is a guy who's CORRECT in doubting his own stuff--I see one good pitch right now, and that's the curve....
2008-04-29 17:01:56
120.   williamnyy23
114 Velocity IS an issue because right now Hughes HAS to be perfect with his fastball. If he was able to throw 93 mph+ with command, he wouldn't need to be pinpoint perfect. The difference between the scouting reports and the Hughes we saw in Texas IS velocity. The issue can't be swept under the rug...whether it's by working with Eiland or pitching in the minors, Hughes has to refind his fastball. Without it, he is not a top of the rotation starter.
2008-04-29 17:02:33
121.   Mattpat11
117 Do we have anyone to replace him with?
2008-04-29 17:02:51
122.   Zack
117 No, but I am not going to freak out and trash the kid, rooting for his demotion.
2008-04-29 17:03:18
123.   nick
I have to agree with william here: prime young starting prospects throw their fastballs by people reasonably often. hughes, right now, virtually never....
2008-04-29 17:03:42
124.   williamnyy23
121 At this point, anyone (yes, that means Igawa) would be better. What's more, you also have to take into account the toll it is taking on Hughes. I'd rather have Igawa get bombed than Hughes because with the former, I don't care about the implications it has on his development.
2008-04-29 17:03:49
125.   Zack
121 Exactly. Fine, you guys want to watch Igawa pitch, be my guess. I'd rather let Phil get two months or so to see if he can work it out (it does bother me that they aren't calling for more changeups and sliders).
2008-04-29 17:03:57
126.   ny2ca2dc
120 I duno, I'd rather he be able to get the FB to the same zip code as the catchers glove, than pick up a couple MPH. Of course, both would be fine.
2008-04-29 17:04:04
127.   randym77
I really wish they'd waited before DFA'ing Chad Moeller.
2008-04-29 17:04:35
128.   Mattpat11
125 Yep.
2008-04-29 17:04:44
129.   williamnyy23
122 I agree...we shouldn't be rooting for his demotion, but there is nothing wrong with advocating for it because it might not only be in the best interest of the team, but Hughes himself.

Chris Stewart sucks.

2008-04-29 17:04:54
130.   pistolpete
121 Rasner is tearing it up at Scranton, FWIW.

122 I'm not rooting for it, I'd love to see him succeed at this level - but this sort of beating every single time out can't be good for his confidence.

He's probably doubting everything about himself and his abilities right now.

2008-04-29 17:05:11
131.   Zack
120 93+ with command sort of is the definition of pinpoint perfect. And no, the difference is control. The velocity has been roughly the same, as in, 90-94.
2008-04-29 17:05:57
132.   Yankees Brasil
115 He clearly has no idea where his FB is going. And it's not like he's throwing 98, 99mph like Farnswack. It's like williamnyy23 said, he can't be succesful in the Majors with just his curve. He needs to be able to locate his FB. And right now he just can't. It's only killing his confidence.
2008-04-29 17:06:00
133.   ny2ca2dc
Lieter is on the button. And Stewert is aweful. Where have you gone Wil Nieves.
2008-04-29 17:06:36
134.   weeping for brunnhilde
Kay to Flaherty: "You're very bright."

Flaherty: "Well, not bright enough to go to Fordham, but..."

heh heh.

2008-04-29 17:06:50
135.   Zack
Hughes has never HAD to face this type of situation, where he has to struggle. he dominated the minors so much he never had to deal with lack of stuff, control etc b/c he could just blow away the hitters. Thats not really helpful.

The kid has made it this far, two months of getting knocked around and figuring things out won't destroy him. This isn't Chase Wright...

2008-04-29 17:07:43
136.   Zack
I still really really don't understand Girardi's decisions today with a struggling young pitcher
2008-04-29 17:08:06
137.   williamnyy23
131's the definition of a top notch starter...which is what the Yankees think and we all hope Hughes is. Right now, he doesn't have command or velocity...that's the definition of a starter with an ERA hovering around 10!
2008-04-29 17:08:11
138.   ny2ca2dc
134 I love the Fordham banter, me ma went there.
2008-04-29 17:08:48
139.   Yankees Brasil
125 If he can't even locate his FB imagine where the slider, his 4th pitch right now, will end up? It's not about the breaking stuff anyways, it all starts and ends with the FB.
2008-04-29 17:08:59
140.   Zack
132 I'm not so sure. He's not missing by a ton, but enough to not have the batters swing and miss. Hes throwing clear balls and middle strikes, where he used to be able to throw to the corners. That suggests minor issues to me, but who the hell knows anymore
2008-04-29 17:09:29
141.   Zack
139 Slider and FB location don't nec. correlate. He can locate his curve just fine...
2008-04-29 17:09:31
142.   randym77
Wil Nieves is in Washington. He hit a walkoff homer for the Nats last week. His first big league home run.
2008-04-29 17:10:35
143.   Yankees Brasil
Nice AB there Abreu. No need to swing, we don't want you to get hurt.
2008-04-29 17:11:29
144.   williamnyy23
Too bad Hughes can't pitch against the Yankees.
2008-04-29 17:12:12
145.   Mattpat11
135 I'd much rather his growing pains happen now than down the line as well.
2008-04-29 17:12:24
146.   Popcult
True or false: if today's starting pitcher was named Karstens or Rasner, he'd would've been in AAA by now. Hughes is a name with hype, but I'm really beginning to think he needs more seasoning in the minors. There's no shame in that-like other posters have said, the kid's 21 years old.
2008-04-29 17:12:35
147.   pistolpete
The sad thing is, you just know the Hank/Santana quote is coming soon.
2008-04-29 17:14:10
148.   williamnyy23
That was a shockingly bad inning, but that's what Girardi gets for stacking the lefties. Nothing like letting Rogers get into a nice rhythm with his breaking ball.

Hughes is the biggest disappointment of this game, but the continued poor managing of Girardi is a close second. I know a lot of people have been happy with the all things considered start, but there are just so many bad signs right now.

2008-04-29 17:14:56
149.   tommyl
We should tell Giambi to face 45 degrees off axis. That way he'd be hitting balls to the second basemen.
2008-04-29 17:15:48
150.   Zack
The thing about the minors is that you simply can't reproduce big league hitters there. Look at freaking Igawa, he is dominant in the minors but sucks in the ML. Hughes can go down to the minors and work all he wants, but it won't reproduce what he needs, the experience and struggle of facing ML hitters--getting them out is very different and more difficult than with ML hitters. Hughes himself has said that he knows what to do but when hes out there its hard to maintain it etc. He could go down to the minors and probably look great, but hes going to need to work it out up here sooner or later...
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-04-29 17:16:06
151.   williamnyy23
147 Especially with Santana and Hughes pitching on the same day all the time. Like or not, the non-deal looks bad if your perspective is only 2008 (although I still say not dealing Melky will be something we applaud).
2008-04-29 17:16:45
152.   Mattpat11
146 That's sort of the point. There was no point in having patience with Karstens or Rasner. There is with Hughes.

And who would replace Phil?

2008-04-29 17:16:57
153.   pistolpete
150 MLB hitters, no, but he can work on locating his pitches and perfecting his mechanics. If he dominates in AAA, then he'll at least have the confidence to do certain things up in the bigs...
2008-04-29 17:17:17
154.   claybeez
135 I thought I'd heard Hughes did take some time adjusting to levels as he went up. But, once adjusted, he dominated them.
2008-04-29 17:17:40
155.   williamnyy23
150 Forget about results...I would just like to see Hughes work on commanding his fastball and increasing his velocity. I don't care if they tell him to throw only fastballs and he gets hammered.
2008-04-29 17:17:52
156.   pistolpete
151 It's hard to have any perspective beyond Hughes' last few starts.
2008-04-29 17:19:35
157.   pistolpete
Ensberg kinda looks like young Mike Stanley from certain angles...
2008-04-29 17:20:16
158.   williamnyy23
Giambi heading back to the bag on the 3-2. I know Rogers has a good pickoff, but then just start on the bag and take off on the release.
2008-04-29 17:20:26
159.   Yankees Brasil
Look at the difference today. Granderson got a ball right down the middle and murdered it. Shelley got one right down the middle and fouled it off weakly. Frustrating.
2008-04-29 17:23:54
160.   cult of basebaal
now we get to see if something has turned for robbie
2008-04-29 17:24:36
161.   Yankees Brasil
Comon Cano, just forget the bases are loaded. Imagine there's nobody on, and you need to get on base to save your life. Nice and easy up the middle. Comon boy.
2008-04-29 17:28:13
162.   OldYanksFan
Strike 2 was well outside. A call that could really cost us.
2008-04-29 17:28:20
163.   Zack
154 Absolutely. Both in AA and AAA it worked that way
2008-04-29 17:28:32
164.   Zack
More men LOB is SP
2008-04-29 17:28:55
165.   pistolpete
And he's grinning about that. Lovely.
2008-04-29 17:28:58
166.   williamnyy23
This team can't get a big hit. The offense is pathetic.
2008-04-29 17:28:59
167.   cult of basebaal
2008-04-29 17:29:11
168.   randym77
2008-04-29 17:29:49
169.   Yankees Brasil
This sucks. That might have been our best chance.
2008-04-29 17:30:35
170.   cult of basebaal
i'm becoming almost glad i can't watch this game on
2008-04-29 17:30:53
171.   williamnyy23
8 baserunners and 2 runs. Incredible.
2008-04-29 17:31:18
172.   Yankees Brasil
Only against the Yankees a pitcher can walk the bases loaded and get out of the inning without giving up a run. It's like they're toying with our hitters/lineup.
2008-04-29 17:31:46
173.   fansince77
I'm not too upset with Cano there - especially since one of those strikes looked four inches outside, but I think that illustrates the difference between a great hitter and a good hitter. If a great hitter has seen that many pitches in an ab...he hits the ball real hard in that spot.
2008-04-29 17:32:40
174.   fansince77
BtW that's twice we sent six men to the plate with 0 to show for it.
2008-04-29 17:33:51
175.   Yankees Brasil
173 He swung on what would've been ball 4.
2008-04-29 17:35:24
176.   williamnyy23
173 I can't pick on Cano either...the Yankees problems are so much deeper than him.
2008-04-29 17:36:31
177.   williamnyy23
Another horrible pitch by Hughes and more crappy defense.
2008-04-29 17:36:47
178.   Mattpat11
So Granderson is pretty good.
2008-04-29 17:36:51
179.   pistolpete
Would a 1-2-3 inning be INSANE to ask for from Hughes?
2008-04-29 17:37:53
180.   Mattpat11
Did he just get fucking crossed up again?
2008-04-29 17:37:53
181.   Yankees Brasil
Great D there by Godzilla. Our outfield tonight is pathetic. What goes on Girardi's head when he decides to put those guys out there.
2008-04-29 17:38:23
182.   fansince77
Gee- tigers need two batters to get a run with 2 outs- we send 4 and can't get a fucking run!
2008-04-29 17:38:29
183.   OldYanksFan
Does JD in LF catch that one?
2008-04-29 17:39:00
184.   Zack
How did Matsui make such a crappy throw there?

Lieter confirming what I have been saying

2008-04-29 17:39:09
185.   fansince77
I'm ready to give Farnswhacker a start. WTF. why not?
2008-04-29 17:39:35
186.   Yankees Brasil
How many pitches for Hughes?
2008-04-29 17:40:20
187.   fansince77
As much as I like Leiter - the phrase "it is what it is...." means absolute nothing.
2008-04-29 17:40:34
188.   Zack
Ump not helping at all there
2008-04-29 17:40:43
189.   pistolpete
Seriously, roster moves have to be made.
2008-04-29 17:41:01
190.   fansince77
Did Sheffield have surgery? Torn labia?
2008-04-29 17:41:28
191.   fansince77
Hughes gave up.
2008-04-29 17:41:40
192.   Zack
Yankees fans are freaking morons. You don't boo Hughes. You can be unhappy with the results, but you don't boo. But then again, Yankees fans have continued to show their absolute ignorance and utter classlessness a lot this year
2008-04-29 17:42:01
193.   williamnyy23
Girardi looks angry. Can't get much worse than this. If things don't change significantly, this team is in deep trouble.
2008-04-29 17:42:27
194.   Mattpat11
189 I really hope not. I have no real desire to watch Rasner get bombed.
2008-04-29 17:42:34
195.   fansince77
Oh we can throw the 19 year old at them instead of the 18 year old. This should be pretty.
2008-04-29 17:42:36
196.   Zack
189 Seriously, no they don't. Adjustments need to be made and Hughes needs to be more aggressive, but roster moves don't HAVE to be made. Chill out. Perhaps you should be focusing on the much deeper issue of a punchless offense
2008-04-29 17:43:30
197.   Zack
More inning+ for Ohlie, which he has already shown he isn't great at
2008-04-29 17:43:30
198.   williamnyy23
192 Too many people are getting wrapped up with booing. Hughes was awful. If someone wants to boo, so be it. If he can't handle that, then he definitely needs to be demoted.
2008-04-29 17:44:40
199.   Yankees Brasil
Maybe they are just a .500 team. They sure as hell don't look that impressive. Pitching sucks, hitting sucks, fielding sucks major balls. What CAN they do?
2008-04-29 17:44:56
200.   Zack
198 You are the same freaking person who is worried about his confidence in the majors, and you say that its okay to boo them?

No, people get worked up about booing because it shows they have no freaking idea of what they are doing. Booing a 21 year old struggling kid who is one of your blue chip prospects and the foundation of your future is, without a doubt, idiotic...

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2008-04-29 17:45:08
201.   Mattpat11
Stewart is no damned good.
2008-04-29 17:45:20
202.   JeremyM
Good thing we got rid of Britton, but I suppose he tried to break the junk food ban....
2008-04-29 17:45:42
203.   pistolpete
196 Hey Zack, are you watching the same game we all are? Do you have a DVD of Cone's no-hitter in or something?

When I said what I said, I was also referring to the slew of useless OF/DH types we have in abundance on this team. Deal Matsui/Giambi/Damon to whomever will take him, get some prospects, a BUC, whatever.

Then get someone up here from the farm who can actually track down a ball...

2008-04-29 17:46:24
204.   fansince77
As bad as Hughes was and he was bad again- the Yanks should have a six or seven spot up there right now. Is it too much to ask for a big hit with RISP JUST ONCE! In the not so distance past putting a ten spot up was not unheard of.
2008-04-29 17:47:13
205.   williamnyy23
200 Like it or not, most fans at the Stadium are not diehards. They want to see a win today, now, because they are there. When a pitcher is as bad as Hughes, they will boo. That's not going to change. If Hughes can't handle that, he doesn't have the makeup everyone says he does.

As for my concern, it's with his confidence that he can locate pitches and get major league hitters has nothing to do with handing boos.

2008-04-29 17:47:44
206.   Zack
203 Both Mattpatt and myself took your meaning to be in relation to Hughes, a justifiable reaction based on the calls for his head. My mistake. I do agree with the OF futility...
2008-04-29 17:48:36
207.   Mattpat11
203 I'll take Matsui.
2008-04-29 17:49:33
208.   pistolpete
Ok, Ohllie did good. Now get him out!!!! ;-)
2008-04-29 17:50:05
209.   Zack
205 that doesn't change the fundamental fact that you don't boo Hughes and that they are morons.

Hughes has shown in the past to struggle somewhat to adjust to levels, and this is the biggest level difference, obviously, so I have no doubt he will adjust.

2008-04-29 17:50:34
210.   Mattpat11
Almost feel bad for Stewart
2008-04-29 17:51:47
211.   Mattpat11
209 I'd also much rather he struggle and adjust now than three months or a year from now.
2008-04-29 17:52:36
212.   williamnyy23
More pathetic offense.
2008-04-29 17:55:13
213.   Yankees Brasil
Rogers throws more than 20 pitches per inning through 4, loaded the bases on walks, throws a bunch of 85mph meatballs and we can't score more than 2 runs. That is more troublesome than Mr. Hughes' perfomance.
2008-04-29 17:55:49
214.   williamnyy23
209 Uhmm...that may be your opinion, but it isn't a fundamental fact. Pitchers with ERAs of 10 get booed in New York.

I just looked at Hughes minor league numbers. If he did struggle at each level, it was for a batter or two. Hughes has never come close to struggling like this...he also has never had such poor fastball command and velocity.

I think you are sugarcoating things a little too much.

2008-04-29 17:59:36
215.   Mattpat11
nice pitch
2008-04-29 18:01:01
216.   claybeez
214 I think lots of what goes on at the stadium is embarrassing. We see and hear multiple cringe-worthy things each game we attend. Really nothing to be proud of.
2008-04-29 18:02:24
217.   williamnyy23
216 Sure, but booing based on performance is not embarassing. Hughes was awful...if he can't accept a smattering of boos for that performance, then perhaps he shouldn't be pitching in the majors after all.
2008-04-29 18:04:19
218.   williamnyy23
Matsui hacking at the first pitch with the team down by 4...that's a bad approach. This offense is bad and it deserves to be.
2008-04-29 18:05:04
219.   Zack
214 Actually, I would say you are being far to polarized in your thinking. In AA, Hughes actually struggled for the first HALF of the season and then turned it on. He struggled in his first two or so starts in AAA, but only had like 4 total. Of course he has never struggled like this. He has never faced hitters like this. Hughes has always been FAR beyond the talent of the hitters he's faced. Now, not so much.

Its not so simple as going down to AAA and "fixing" it. Rookie/young pitchers historically struggle upon reaching the ML and take time to adjust. It might take Hughes some time, but its far more likely to happen in the majors than the minors...

2008-04-29 18:05:50
220.   williamnyy23
2-0 count...Giambi hacks.

It isn't a surprise why this team doesn't score. Their whole approach has changed. That's a real red flag.

2008-04-29 18:06:26
221.   Zack
217 nobody said anything about Hughes not being able to handle it other than YOU. I don't think it has anything to do with his confidence, which I have never questioned. It has to do with the fans and them alone.
2008-04-29 18:07:14
222.   williamnyy23
And Ensberg hacks away on the first pitch. With this approach, the Yankees are a bad offense, they aren't simply playing badly.
2008-04-29 18:08:47
223.   claybeez
217 If New Yorkers, living in this capital of culture and commerce, the world capital, can't use enough intelligence to ascertain when to support and when to castigate then it is embarrassing.
2008-04-29 18:09:03
224.   fansince77
another risp
2008-04-29 18:11:29
225.   williamnyy23
219 I am not sure why it matters where he is pitching if the issue is suring up his mechanics. At least if he learns in the minors, the Yankees wont have an automatic loss every 5 games.

221 I never said anything of the such. I didn't mention did.

2008-04-29 18:11:47
226.   Zack
On the bright side (somewhere in the haze created by Hughes and the continued putridity of the offense) Ohlendorf looks GREAT
2008-04-29 18:12:26
227.   fansince77
223 Oh C'mon all you NBFHC* members: I doubt very much that if Hughes is half the competitor that I think he is he would want anything but some boos on a shitty performance! Nobody who is a real competitor wants to be woosied.

*(No Boos For Hughes Committee)

2008-04-29 18:12:44
228.   williamnyy23
223 Again, you are assuming that everyone at the game is concerned about the development of Phil Hughes. They want to see the Yankees win...Phil Hughes is making that very difficult. As a result, they boo. If players can't deal with that, they need to play elsewhere.
2008-04-29 18:14:48
229.   williamnyy23
227 In fact, I'd expect Hughes either didn't notice or would say he'd have booed himself.

I think a lot of Yankee fans desperately want to see the team develop an ace that they can't bring themselves to accept the possibility that Phil Hughes is not ready to pitch in the minors. Hopefully, Cashman is not equally hell bent on the same.

2008-04-29 18:15:28
230.   Zack
225 You said it numerous times, right in 217 . I never said anything about his confidence being booed. In fact, YOU first mentioned it in 198 .

And its things like "automatic out" that make you sound like you are actively rooting against Hughes just to prove your point. The point was that it seems very likely that there is something about pitching to ML hitters that is causing the problems, be they mechanical or otherwise

2008-04-29 18:16:39
231.   Zack
227 The issue, for the one millionth time, is not whether Hughes cares or not. Its about the fans. You can be unhappy with the results, but booing your 21 year old struggling future is jsut stupid. It was like when they booed Jeter during his slump.
2008-04-29 18:17:40
232.   Zack
229 And I think that you are so hell bent on being right about Hughes that you are unable to accept the possibility that pitching in the minors might not really be helpful
2008-04-29 18:19:37
233.   williamnyy23
230 Clearly, you can see that my responses were to your suggestion that somehow being booed might affect Hughes. I hope so at least.

Again, like it or not, Hughes has pretty much meant an automatic, bullpen draining loss everytime out. Now, maybe you don't mind seeing that, and feel as if Hughes will solve his problems throwing 3 innings every fifth day, but I am willing to be more realistic and accept the possibility that this 21-year old boy may need more seasoning.

2008-04-29 18:20:06
234.   williamnyy23
Cano hacks on the first pitch...are Girardi and Long watching? Do they approve? Do they care?
2008-04-29 18:20:50
235.   williamnyy23
231 You keep failing to explain why it is stupid. Just because you think so isn't very compelling.
2008-04-29 18:22:20
236.   williamnyy23
232 That's absurd. I can't debate the issue with you can't keep it off an emotional level.
2008-04-29 18:23:00
237.   williamnyy23
Wow...the offense has actually found a new low. Another shame of Hughes poor outing is that it will completely overshadow this inept performance.
2008-04-29 18:23:26
238.   claybeez
228 The best players playing elsewhere is exactly what many of the fans who attend games deserve.

No matter the excuse it's boorish behavior. For me it's an unwelcome and embarrassing aspect of being a Yankee fan.

2008-04-29 18:24:21
239.   Zack
233 I do see that, but what you seem to be failing to see is that I never suggested that booing would affect Hughes. I responded to your claim that if it would affect him, he doesn't belong here. ALl I continued to say is that booing him is dumb and shows a real lack of thought by Yankees fans, a trend this season...

And you don't seem to be very level headed on the matter. But I acknowledge that neither am I. We can leave it at that you are more focused on this season whereas I am more concerned with the future. I'd ALWAYS rather see a struggling prospect with upside try and work it out than a crap pitcher like Igawa with zero upside be crappy but not super crappy.

I've been open with the fact that if he hasn't turned it around by the end of May a demotion would be in order, or at least worthy of consideration.

2008-04-29 18:27:21
240.   williamnyy23
238 Again, that's your opinion, and you are entitled to it, but as one who does not boo, I have no problem with fans voicing displeasure, as long as they do so without using vulgarity. I am not so arrogant as to decree that those who root differently than I do are morons or boorish.
2008-04-29 18:28:26
241.   Zack
235 And you fail to make a case for why its acceptable. Simply saying that people are there to see a win doesn't justify the behavior. In fact, booing a young prospect with high upside definitely won't help. It probably won 't hurt, but it might. Doubtful, but its idiotic for that reason alone. Second of all, as I have said, it shows a complete lack of understanding about the game of baseball. He's 21 and figuring things out. Booing his performance doesn't "send a message' or anything like that. It makes you come across as a boorish, win now no matter the cost johnny come lately.

As I said, its like when fans booed Jeter during his awful slump. Its 100% a temporary, reactionary, irrational emotional reaction based in the moment. Those fans booed Jeter because they were displeased with his performance? Thats idiotic and completely ignores his past history and potential. Fine, you boo Jeter then, you shouldn't be able to cheer for him later...

2008-04-29 18:29:30
242.   williamnyy23
239 How am I not level headed on this matter? I've outlined the problems that I see; mentioned that I'd give him another 4-5 starts in the majors to work things out; but also accepted that he very well might not be ready to pitch up here. That seems pretty level headed to me. Somehow, you've taken that to mean I want Hughes to fail.
2008-04-29 18:29:39
243.   Mattpat11
I want to see Al Leiter at a "Fifty Cents" concert
2008-04-29 18:29:42
244.   Zack
Eh, I'm done with this argument. You've been carrying it on for weeks with regard to the LaTroy incidents too, so clearly you feel impassioned enough about it...I'm off to eat dinner and ignore this game as I cannot stomach anymore of Kenny Rogers dominating this team
2008-04-29 18:31:41
245.   williamnyy23
241 It's acceptable because fans pay money to see the Yankees win. When they do well, many cheer. When they do poorly, many boo. Cheering and Booing is acceptable conduct at sporting events. I have no problem with fans choosing to do either. Just because one fans acts differently than you doesn't make him a moron.
2008-04-29 18:31:42
246.   Zack
242 One more note. As I have said, its mixing comments like giving him 4-5 more starts with comments like "automatic loss," and "I don't see how Hughes will be successful" that give the impression
2008-04-29 18:33:02
247.   williamnyy23
244 More like consistent. It's just not my thing to call those who disagree with me a moron.
2008-04-29 18:34:04
248.   claybeez
240 I guess I'm arrogant, then. Call it like you see it. I attend plenty of games and, yes, if you do too, you know it is often laced with vulgarity.

The same people that boo have to be asked or yelled at to sit down, as they are to busy watching a budding fight, joining in the "a@@hole" chant or yelling "Boston Sucks" to watch the action.

I'd argue that I'm not a snob. I'm just a lifelong Yanks fan often appalled by the behavior of those around me. Arrogant Clay, he'd rather watch the game and support the players that struggle than join the chorus of boos for the likes of the best player in baseball or our 21-year old SP. I'm such an ass.

2008-04-29 18:34:19
249.   williamnyy23
246 Hughes starts have pretty much lined up as automatic losses...that's why the Yankees need to consider demoting him. If you can't accept that reality, as Leiter would say, "it is what it is".
2008-04-29 18:36:46
250.   williamnyy23
248 You said it, not me. I guess I don't subscribe to the theory that booing is the gateway to vulgarity and violence. I go to about 20-25 games each year and observe lots of people who boo poor performances without going beserko.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2008-04-29 18:38:04
251.   Just fair
246 Human race, this is Zack. Zack, this is human race.
People get pissed off and boo. I like to think that I am not Ignorant and know a ton about baseball. But this does stop me from firing my Yankee hat across the room and sending my dog Mickey scurrying to another room whenever anything shitty happens. Am a proud? No. Do I think Phil will survive yet another piss-poor start? Yes.
2008-04-29 18:39:31
252.   claybeez
247 You're not above ascribing other adjectives, though, are you? You miss the point - the booing at every downturn is childish. It's not like you never hear booing at other venues. I was at games in Baltimore where they booed Cal. It's just that it passes for sport here. Booing is the amusement.
2008-04-29 18:40:00
253.   Mattpat11
249 I was at Hughes one good start. I think he just needs more me.

And unless the Yankees think they have a viable alternative (and no, Igawa doesn't count) the only thing I see demoting him accomplishing is crushing what's left of his confidence.

2008-04-29 18:40:49
254.   OldYanksFan
Meanwhile, Lester and the Sox 2 hit Toronto, and beat Halladay 1-0. Double bogie.
2008-04-29 18:41:06
255.   Just fair
I just don't like Kevin Youkilis. I would boo him right now if he rang my doorbell.
2008-04-29 18:42:59
256.   claybeez
250 That's right. I wrote what you would rather imply. You're sooo clever. And so much brighter than the average man. I forgot just how much I missed you commentary.
2008-04-29 18:43:12
257.   Zack
249 The only reason today is an "automatic loss" is because of the offense. 6-2 with this many runners left on is at the hands of the O. Yes, Hughes put them in a hole and didn't give them much of a chance. But an "automatic loss??" come on, don't be ridiculous...
2008-04-29 18:44:36
258.   Zack
251 Right, I get pissed too, I want to win as much as anyone. But the big difference is you are at home and you aren't booing Hughes. I wasn't saying anything other than that its really stupid and not very smart as Yankees fans to boo Hughes. Its just dumb and shortsighted...What else is new...
2008-04-29 18:44:39
259.   williamnyy23
252 Some people think wasting time watching grown men hit and throw a small ball is, at every downturn, childish. On issues as trivial as the morality booing, I try not to be too judgmental.
2008-04-29 18:46:03
260.   williamnyy23
256 Yawn.
2008-04-29 18:46:23
261.   Zack
Edwar Ramirez is another example of the fallacy of using the minor leagues to "fix" things. Ramirez can work as much as he wants in the minors on setting up his changeup, but in the end, he can just go back to it in the crunch and AAA hitters can't do anything about it. Then he comes to the ML and not only can they hit his change, they can wait for the FB. He'll look good than crappy then good etc...
2008-04-29 18:47:24
262.   cult of basebaal
yay! an edwar appearance! now i wish i was watching the game again
2008-04-29 18:47:48
263.   williamnyy23
257 If Hughes is going to pitch to an ERA of 9, the Yankees will lose 90% (my best guess) of the games he starts. It might not be automatic, but it's close.
2008-04-29 18:48:09
264.   quacks25
side point:
Aside from the second inning, (the only runs of the game) the Yankees have only managed to get men on base after 2 outs. doesn't give you much of a shot...
2008-04-29 18:48:13
265.   Mattpat11
257 I disagree here. Phil Hughes was horrendous today and this loss sits firmly on his shoulders. The offense was no good, but the only reason we're not buried further is they finally took him out.

I still think he should stay up here though

2008-04-29 18:48:37
266.   Just fair
Hey, the good news is that the Yanks helped a relative dormant Tigers team feel pretty good about themselves. : ) The bad news is I've never been a fan of Ivan Rodriguez.
2008-04-29 18:48:47
267.   williamnyy23
261 Edwar isn't 21 though...and he isn't performing differently from how he has pitched in the minors. The cases are different.
2008-04-29 18:49:47
268.   Zack
267 Um, yes he is. His minor league #s are stratospheric. In the majors, he stinks, or at least, isn't very good. And the difference is in adjusting to the majors and learning to pitch to them and getting better at it...
2008-04-29 18:50:32
269.   Mattpat11
261 And I have some real doubts that getting out the collection of hasbeens, never wases and never will bes of your typical AAA team will help his confidence all that much.
2008-04-29 18:50:49
270.   Just fair
258 Complaining about people booing is dumb and shortsighted. IMO. And the circle goes round and round.
2008-04-29 18:51:19
271.   williamnyy23
Interesting conversation between Leiter and Flaherty. They are discussing Hughes' need to work on his third and fourth pitches if he is going to be successful (apparently, he only three 5 of those). If both men are correct, it seems to suggest that Hughes would benefit from working on more pitches in the minors.
2008-04-29 18:52:24
272.   williamnyy23
268 Edwar is 21? And his fastball has been better in the minors? You lost me here.
2008-04-29 18:53:27
273.   cult of basebaal
261 i'd say the issue with edwar isn't the quality of his change, but the lack of consistency with his fb ... if he can consistently throw the fb for quality strikes, i think he'll be a quality reliever in the pen ... we'll see ... at least he's likely to get a chance to show whether he's taken the next step this year
2008-04-29 18:54:03
274.   Mattpat11
272 I think he means Edwar performs much differently in the majors than minors.
2008-04-29 18:55:22
275.   claybeez
260 Great. So, you're familiar with how I have felt about your incessant diatribes. Good to know you're in touch with it.
2008-04-29 18:55:40
276.   cult of basebaal
hmmm ... gameday keeps saying edwars throwing a splitter ... i don't remember that from the games i saw last year (i remember a slider) ... does it look like he's actually throwing a split (or is it just pitchFX confusion)?
2008-04-29 18:56:12
277.   williamnyy23
274 Ah...I was talking about mechanics and "stuff". If Hughes was getting beat with great stuff, I'd be more patient.
2008-04-29 18:56:43
278.   williamnyy23
Michael Kay has to drop the "tired" excuse. It's lame.
2008-04-29 18:56:50
279.   claybeez
The bats. Where are they?
2008-04-29 18:57:02
280.   williamnyy23
275 Yawn.
2008-04-29 18:57:26
281.   Zack
271 What I heard them say is that he needs to throw those pitches more, period.
2008-04-29 18:57:38
282.   williamnyy23
276 I think that's the change. He isn't throwing a splitter.
2008-04-29 18:58:13
283.   Just fair
I'm just happy we didn't get no hit by that kid, Rogers. Man, he was fillthy. CACK. The horror. The horror.
2008-04-29 18:58:16
284.   Mattpat11
277 I'm willing to be more patient because I see no alternative, I don't think the minors will help him, and I think in the long run, if he can get past this, it will benefit him.
2008-04-29 18:58:24
285.   williamnyy23
281 Right...but if he isn't comfortable throwing them (which might be why he hasn't), wouldn't you agree the minors is the best place to develop them?
2008-04-29 18:59:36
286.   Just fair
A lead off walk means only one thing. A potential dp. Reverse jinx. Let's go.
2008-04-29 19:00:05
287.   williamnyy23
284 Where I disagree is: (1) A 9 ERA is bad enough that there are better alternatives; amd (2) I am not sure Hughes being cuffed around is going to benefit him, if only because he wont be able to throw enough innings.
2008-04-29 19:00:08
288.   Jeb
Are we going to continue running Phil Ohlendorf and Ross Kennedy out there 40% of the time or is it time to bring up Rasner and/or Horne?

Alternatively, and yes I know this is a crazy idea, but what about a salary dump move and acquiring Zito for a bag of beans and trying to get Eiland to help him work out his problems? Is Zito just beyond help at this point? (and yes I know the contract he has is insane).

2008-04-29 19:00:37
289.   Mattpat11


2008-04-29 19:01:08
290.   williamnyy23
288 Maybe as a LOOGY.
2008-04-29 19:01:17
291.   cult of basebaal
288 horne is injured ... hasn't started throwing from a mound again yet
2008-04-29 19:01:28
292.   Just fair
288 Seriously? Crazy doesn't even give the idea justice.
2008-04-29 19:01:53
293.   Zack
288 I don't want Zito anywhere near this team. He is seriously messed up/done. Besides, Eiland needs to be focused on Kennedy and Hughes and their mechanical or other issues
2008-04-29 19:02:54
294.   williamnyy23
Good to see Joe get one of the teams only hot hitters into the game. Girardi really managed a poor game tonight.
2008-04-29 19:03:07
295.   Just fair
Hey, Melky's in. Too little, too late.
2008-04-29 19:04:48
296.   Mattpat11
287 I think Igawa and Rasner are very capable of throwing to a nine ERA, to be honest. If I thought they'd go outside the box and try someone else, I might agree. I think it will be one or the other though, so I see no real improvement.

I agree about the lack of innings potentially being a problem, but I'm not sure that trying to work out his problems against vastly inferior hitters is going to help. He can pitch the way he is now and get many of hem out just with the hook.

2008-04-29 19:05:17
297.   claybeez
285 I'm not so sure. If he's already dominated AAA, isn't there something to be said for learning to put it together at this level?

I know I've heard many times recently that Maddux and others took their knocks in the bigs. The team stuck with them and were later rewarded. Maddux made 27 starts while a rook to the tune of a 5.61 ERA. Maybe others can cite some additional examples.

I think it would be foolhardy for the Girardi and the FO not to consider sending him down. They need to weigh the pros and cons carefully.

2008-04-29 19:06:10
298.   Just fair
Kenny Rogers = Yankees Kryptonite= my head is going to explode.
RISP with 2 outs = i foretell my head exploding.
2008-04-29 19:06:27
299.   Jeb
just curious about what y'all thought.

We may all be from Alabama but when your shoulder hurts where do you go? (ask Jorge)

2008-04-29 19:06:48
300.   Just fair
Kenny Rogers = Yankees Kryptonite= my head is going to explode.
RISP with 2 outs = i foretell my head exploding.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2008-04-29 19:06:56
301.   Just fair
Kenny Rogers = Yankees Kryptonite= my head is going to explode.
RISP with 2 outs = i foretell my head exploding.
2008-04-29 19:07:15
302.   claybeez
280 Back atcha.
2008-04-29 19:08:07
303.   Mattpat11
Leyland is going to have a stroke.
2008-04-29 19:08:28
304.   Just fair
Whoops. C'mon Jeter x3.
2008-04-29 19:09:14
305.   Mattpat11
Nice time for Jeter's third walk.
2008-04-29 19:10:31
306.   Zack
Why must the torment us so?
2008-04-29 19:10:34
307.   weeping for brunnhilde
Three walks and a hit batsman.

That's what it's come down to.

The only runs we can score are literally forced upon us by the opposing pitcher.

2008-04-29 19:10:39
308.   Just fair
The only thing more bizarre then winning yesterday's game would be winning tonight's. Hey Leyland, smoke em' if you got 'em.
2008-04-29 19:11:08
309.   Mattpat11
Bautista with the untucked shirt reminds me of Alex Graman
2008-04-29 19:12:12
310.   Mattpat11
If I had double digit amputations, I promise you I would remember the exact number
2008-04-29 19:12:36
311.   Just fair
I will consider anything other than a weak groundball to second or a pop up to be a success.
2008-04-29 19:12:56
312.   Mattpat11
I'm going to name my son a new agey name like Clay. Or Skye.
2008-04-29 19:13:31
313.   Zack
Absolute torture
2008-04-29 19:13:32
314.   weeping for brunnhilde
Well that was fun.
2008-04-29 19:13:38
315.   Just fair
2008-04-29 19:13:58
316.   weeping for brunnhilde
311 Success, then.
2008-04-29 19:14:05
317.   williamnyy23
Very quietly, Bobby Abreu has been very unproductive. That was a very anti-climatic ending to an undeserved rally.
2008-04-29 19:14:26
318.   cult of basebaal
312 or Cla!
2008-04-29 19:17:31
319.   cult of basebaal
317 agreed, Attack Hamster has been scuffling the last week or so ... sigh ... i'd rather we got 1 hit or something
2008-04-29 19:17:37
320.   Mattpat11
oh christ
2008-04-29 19:18:00
321.   pistolpete
The Ghost of Torre apathetically sipping his green tea is somewhere on that bench, I'm convinced.
2008-04-29 19:18:03
322.   williamnyy23
The play pretty much says it all for Robbie.
2008-04-29 19:20:03
323.   fansince77
Is that 3 innings with the bases loaded and 1 run? pathetic.
2008-04-29 19:21:01
324.   pistolpete
Sheffield channeling himself in 2005.
2008-04-29 19:22:04
325.   Yankees Brasil
Let's hope Leyland brings in Jones right from the start of the inning. If there's a guy we can get a hit of, it's Jones.
2008-04-29 19:22:53
326.   pistolpete
I'm officially convinced we don't need Giambi.

Duncan probably doesn't have half the talent but I have twice the confidence in his ability to play 1B and drive in runs...

2008-04-29 19:23:19
327.   williamnyy23
325 I don't know...this is the same team that couldn't touch Byrd, Sowers, Laffey and Rogers.
2008-04-29 19:24:14
328.   Mattpat11
Todd Jones' numbers should be going up
2008-04-29 19:24:55
329.   Yankees Brasil
327 Hey, let me keep on dreaming here!
2008-04-29 19:25:12
330.   tommyl
Well, can't blame the pen tonight. C'mon guys, do something
2008-04-29 19:25:39
331.   claybeez
312 Clay is a new age name? Now, I understand those pics of my grandfather [also a Clay(ton)] in NC where he's outside an ashram holding a Tarot deck with a quartz crystal where his 3rd eye should be...
2008-04-29 19:25:59
332.   williamnyy23
330 The pen has had some blowup games, but sadly has been the best part of the team by far.
2008-04-29 19:26:00
333.   tommyl
The very fact that Todd Jones has over 300 saves shows how stupid a stat it is.
2008-04-29 19:26:27
334.   Just fair
For anyone interested, 3 hours x 162 games = 20.25 days.
Basically a royal waste of time for all of us unless this offense gets its shit together. The fact that Kenny Rogers shut us down again makes me upchuck a bit in my mouth. The kiddy pitchers got to get it together, but goddam.
2008-04-29 19:27:22
335.   tommyl
2008-04-29 19:27:49
336.   pistolpete
I'm betting fortunes will be reversed sometime around June or July - we'll get great starts from everyone on the staff, have 8-1 leads going into the 6th inning but guys like Ohlendorf and Farnsworth will consistently cough up 4-5 runs, forcing Joe to overuse Joba & Mariano...
2008-04-29 19:27:52
337.   cult of basebaal
if morgan spurlock was a baseball player ... he'd be todd jones ... well, except for the cracker-ass redneck part
2008-04-29 19:28:21
338.   Yankees Brasil
Now would be a great time to bunt.
2008-04-29 19:28:24
339.   Just fair
Giambi was just completely blown away by a 91 mph fastball.
2008-04-29 19:28:28
340.   Mattpat11
2008-04-29 19:29:27
341.   tommyl
Hahahahaha, man if he could just relearn how to go the other way, sigh.
2008-04-29 19:29:45
342.   cult of basebaal
339 HA!
2008-04-29 19:29:45
343.   Just fair
340 Basebal torture.
2008-04-29 19:30:18
344.   Mattpat11
Duncan gets less ugly when you get used to him.
2008-04-29 19:30:27
345.   cult of basebaal
nice to see joey joe joe pinch running for the living statue at 1st
2008-04-29 19:30:44
346.   pistolpete
Good going, Shelley - get that base cholesterol Giambi into the dugout...
2008-04-29 19:30:56
347.   Just fair
hey everyone, let's now start swinging at the first pitch. WHAT THE F?
2008-04-29 19:30:59
348.   williamnyy23
WHY!!!!!! Did Duncan and Ensberg swing at the first pitch. I hate to keep repeating it, but where is the approach!
2008-04-29 19:31:05
349.   tommyl
Soooo now Robbie will ground out and that'll be it.
2008-04-29 19:31:31
350.   pistolpete
::pencilling 4-3 into his scorecard for Cano::
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2008-04-29 19:31:37
351.   tommyl
Nope, it'll be a K
2008-04-29 19:32:01
352.   Mattpat11
345 I;m not sure we have anyone
2008-04-29 19:32:21
353.   Just fair
don't hate me because i will use lowercase letters.
2008-04-29 19:32:55
354.   williamnyy23
Pathetic...this team is in trouble.
2008-04-29 19:33:29
355.   Yankees Brasil
It's only fitting that Cano gets struck out to end the game and the comeback.
2008-04-29 19:34:06
356.   pistolpete
354 And yet you're her every night. Masochist!
2008-04-29 19:34:16
357.   pistolpete
365 *here
2008-04-29 19:34:21
358.   fansince77
hello my name is robinson cano: sometimes i just swing wherever the ball is pitched.
2008-04-29 19:34:37
359.   pistolpete
357 356 LOL, time for bed.
2008-04-29 19:35:07
360.   cult of basebaal
352 i was thinking of the DA, but it's a minor point, screw this pooch, i'm off to watch Deadliest Catch, those boys earn their keep!
2008-04-29 19:37:48
361.   Yankees Brasil
Yankees within 2, runner on first, what do we do? First batter bounces into a force out on the first pitch. Second batter grounds out on the first pitch. Last batter strikes out on 3 pitches, none of which were close to the strike zone. Now that's a great sequence.
2008-04-29 19:38:10
362.   williamnyy23
356 Sad. See 334 .
2008-04-29 19:39:20
363.   williamnyy23
361 It's been going on all season, which I take to mean Girardi approves of it. That's very ominous.
2008-04-29 19:42:28
364.   Yankees Brasil
I wanna know who was the retard saying Cano was better than Utley. Or who said he would be. I don't remember. Anyway, that sounds so wrong now, doesn't it.
2008-04-29 19:51:18
365.   williamnyy23
Arod on the DL...that's BIG, BIG trouble.
2008-04-29 19:51:32
366.   weeping for brunnhilde
2008-04-29 19:52:27
367.   williamnyy23
Granted I'm very pissed about tonight's game, but the notion of not making the playoffs seems very real.
2008-04-29 19:55:14
368.   williamnyy23
The way Cashman sounded, I think Hughes may be headed back to AAA.
2008-04-29 19:57:19
369.   randym77
368 That's what it sounded like to me, too. They are at least considering it.
2008-04-29 19:57:21
370.   Mattpat11
367 The mediocrity of everyone else gives me hope.
2008-04-29 19:58:08
371.   Mattpat11
368 I really hope we're not going to be banging our heads against the Igawa brick wall again.
2008-04-29 19:59:02
372.   Just fair
Get better soon, Alex.
Phil, get ahead for chrisakes. Figure it out here in the show.
At least we're not the Pirates. Brrrrrrrrrrr.
2008-04-29 20:00:26
373.   randym77
The YES guys seem to think Hughes should be sent down. For his own good.
2008-04-29 20:01:24
374.   Mattpat11
373 I really don't see how getting inferior hitters out will help him.
2008-04-29 20:03:40
375.   williamnyy23
374 True...they could just have him throw an intrasquad game for that.
2008-04-29 20:03:50
376.   tommyl
Oh good, A-Rod on the DL. Can I ask, why didn't he get an MRI right away? Are MRIs too expensive or something? A-Rod is your greatest and most expensive asset. If he sneezes I'd have him at the Mayo Clinic.
2008-04-29 20:06:35
377.   Mattpat11
376 This super secret cloak and dagger bullshit is getting tiresome as well.
2008-04-29 20:08:12
378.   tommyl
From watching Phil, the one thing I see consistently this year more so than tape from the minors is that his right shoulder seems to be trailing a small amount. That would lead to pushing a bit and, like a slice in golf his ball will tail back towards the right, most noticeably on his fastball. When he misses he seems to miss right no matter which location he is going for. I'd focus on that.
2008-04-29 20:11:26
379.   SF Yanks
378 I have noticed his fastball always missing to the right as well. I do recall this a bit last year also. Not sure what it means though.
2008-04-29 20:15:15
380.   Zack
374 Agreed, but it would seem that they are leaning towards doing it anyway. At least it will make everyone remember how God awful Igawa is. Oh God I just threw up in my mouth...
2008-04-29 20:16:38
381.   Zack
378 379 It certainly seemed that way tonight.

If they are going to send Hughes down, I really hope its under the careful eye of Contreras and under strict instructions to work on ALL his pitches, because it won't do him any good to just destroy the AAA pitchers with his curve, which hasn't really been the problem...

2008-04-29 20:17:33
382.   JeremyM
376 No shit, what's the point? To me, the fans of a team deserve to at least receive some semblance of the truth.
2008-04-29 20:17:41
383.   Mattpat11
This Hughes interview is depressing
2008-04-29 20:18:50
384.   tommyl
379 Its what I said, think about playing golf. I have a pretty consistent slice (ok, I completely suck at golf). So you try to correct for it, but then one time you do and you don't slice it and the ball goes way off to the left. Now you line up again, where do you aim?

There are two issues here, one is the repetition of mechanics. The second, bigger one is that I think there's something slightly off in his base mechanics right now. Because of that, he's constantly fighting for the right feel, and so he can't repeat at all. End result is the ball goes everywhere. At this level, its not really going everywhere, but he is missing location and that fastball is tailing to the right. The nearest comparison I can think of is Tiger Woods a few years ago when he was revamping his swing. His drives were all over the place for about a year.

The problem is that to righthanders, he can't really work inside because the ball might tail off and hit them. To lefties, when he tries work in tails back over the plate, and since he's trying to go up and in, it ends up middle and up (which gets crushed and may explain his horrible stats against lefties). When he tries to go outside, it ends up tailing off the plate for an easy ball.

I've seen only a little bit of video of him in the minors but it just looked different. He was always hitting his spots. Something is wrong with him mechanically.

2008-04-29 20:19:58
385.   Mattpat11
380 I did as well.

One of the issues I have with sending him down to the minors is that he can dominate the league with the hook. He'll be awesome in AAA and nothing will change and we'll be watching Igawa.

2008-04-29 20:20:15
386.   tommyl
383 At least the kid manned up. Took full responsibility (didn't blame Stewart) and said it was inexcusable. Sometimes its hard to remember he's 21. At 21, I was in college and ski bumming in colorado, whining that my roomates made too much noise.
2008-04-29 20:22:47
387.   Mattpat11
386 Looked to me like he's taking this all pretty hard though.
2008-04-29 20:25:48
388.   tommyl
387 Yeah, well, can you blame him? Think how frustrated we were watching it. He had to stand on the mound and take it. I've given lectures at very difficult universities before and been thoroughly raked over the coals (one place I think was actually trying to see if I would cry). That's so much smaller scale, but at the time I thought my career and life were over.
2008-04-29 20:34:22
389.   Mattpat11
388 To be honest, there were a couple points where I thought he might cry. It was very uncomfortable and I felt terrible for him.
2008-04-29 20:45:52
390.   randym77
That's why they think sending him down might be to his benefit. Might not help his pitching, but if he does dominate in Scranton, it sure would help his confidence.

On another topic...Ron Villone has a 0.93 ERA with the Cardinals. Shelley's dad really is The Pitcher Whisperer.

2008-04-29 20:51:46
391.   Mattpat11
390 Would decimating a league he already knows he can destroy offset the blow that being sent down would cause?
2008-04-29 21:10:54
392.   weeping for brunnhilde
Hey, there's an interview between Kay on Joba on YES.

Joba's a beautiful guy. He just talked about how much he loves Lincoln, NE, it will always be home and he loves when people ask him questions.

"People think it's intrusive, but it's not intrusive, I'm honored they care enough about me to approach me and ask me what it's like and who you meet..."

He's so sincere, so heartfelt.

He's really a winner of a human being.

I think we have something special here with him.

2008-04-29 21:12:37
393.   weeping for brunnhilde

His uncle's choking up talking about Native American pride and how much Joba means to them.

Really moving stuff.

2008-04-29 21:15:19
394.   weeping for brunnhilde
"I don't care if you say you want to act, you want to write, I just want to make sure people from my reservation can have opportunities to follow their dreams."

Joba on the work he means to do for his community when he strikes it rich.

God bless him.

2008-04-29 21:22:20
395.   weeping for brunnhilde
"By the time I get out of here, I want people to know I can hit!"

He sounded gleeful.

He wants to hit. How cute.

2008-04-29 22:43:55
396.   Raf
390 A bulk of Villone's work has been against the SF Giants
2008-04-30 05:01:26
397.   OldYanksFan
I think Phil could pitch 5 perfect games at AAA, but at this point, I don't think anything will help him succeed at the MLB level EXCEPT finding his footing and succeeding at the MLB level. However, he still has to be confident, wanting the ball, and willing to fail until he succeeds. I would talk to him. If he is not hungry to get out there again, then maybe he needs to go down to AAA a while.

Phil pitched shitty, but I just can't figure out why we had Stewart catching. Could it be more obvious that this pair we not working well together? And why only 7 non FB/CBs in 82 pitches? Who was calling this game? Stewart? The bench? We can't help that both ARod and Po are out of the lineup. The fact is most of our lineup is underperforming. But an OF of JD and Matsui is almost a guarantee of bad things to come. Is there really a reason Molina and Melky coundn't have been rested a day or 2 later?

As these excuses? Sure. Might Phil have been shitty anyway? Looks like it. But JESUSHCHRIST! Phil and IPK are struggling. Can we at least put our best team on the field for them until they get a few wins or good performances until their belt?

If Phil and IPKs troubles are mechanical, maybe AAA will help. But has Eiland made this call? Is the problem mechanical or just execution?

And as shitty as this game was, Detroit was begging us to win it. Short of pitching the ball underhand, they did everything they could. But this team choked. The O saved a bunch of crap games last year (when ARod was HOT), but this year we're giving them away. Again, not an excure, but has we gotten a few hits with RISP, we might be talking about the great job the BP did, and just waiting for Phil to get 'em the next time.

Our offense is killing us. And there should be a law against having Matsui and JD in the same outfield.

2008-04-30 05:05:59
398.   OldYanksFan
Also, PeteAbe says: "But the Yankees are 1 for 3 with key injuries so far this season."
Alex and Po bad. Jetes OK. However, Is Jetes OK? Anybody watch him run? Is he still injured? Was there an MRI before his took the field? Does he still have a Grade I tear just waiting for the event that will turn it into a Grade II or III?

Is Jeter STILL injured?

2008-04-30 05:09:19
399.   monkeypants
398 I said it earlier--over and over--that they should have DLed Jeter and Posada right away. Jeter does not seem exactly right.

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