Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
Boston Red Sox
2008-04-11 12:47
by Cliff Corcoran

Boston Red Sox

2007 Record: 96-66 (.593)
2007 Pythagorean Record: 103-59 (.635)

Manager: Terry Francona
General Manager: Theo Epstein

Home Ballpark (multi-year Park Factors): Fenway Park (106/105)

Who's Replacing Whom:

Jacoby Ellsbury replaces Coco Crisp in center field (sometimes)
Sean Casey replaces Erik Hinske
Kevin Cash replaces Doug Mirabelli
Jon Lester replaces Curt Schilling (DL)
Clay Buchholz replaces the starts of Julian Tavarez (bullpen) and Kason Gabbard
David Aardsma replaces Mike Timlin (DL)
Bryan Corey replaces Kyle Snyder

25-man Roster:

1B - Sean Casey (L)
2B - Dustin Pedroia (R)
SS - Julio Lugo (R)
3B - Kevin Youkilis (R)
C - Jason Varitek (S)
RF - J.D. Drew (L)
CF - Jacoby Ellsbury (L)
LF - Manny Ramirez (R)
DH - David Ortiz (L)


S - Coco Crisp (OF)
L - Alex Cora (IF)
S - Jed Lowrie (IF)
R - Kevin Cash (C)


R - Josh Beckett
R - Daisuke Matsuzaka
L - Jon Lester
R - Tim Wakefield
R - Clay Buchholz


R - Jon Papelbon
L - Hideki Okajima
R - Manny Delcarmen
L - Javier Lopez
R - Julian Tavarez
R - David Aardsma
R - Bryan Corey

15-day DL: R - Mike Lowell (3B), R - Mike Timlin
60-day DL: R - Curt Schilling


R - Dustin Pedroia (2B)
R - Kevin Youkilis (3B)
L - David Ortiz (DH)
R - Manny Ramirez (LF)
L - J.D. Drew (RF)
S - Jason Varitek (C)
L - Jacoby Ellsbury (CF)
L - Sean Casey (1B)
R - Julio Lugo (SS)

The Yankees and Red Sox will play five of their 18 head-to-head regular season games this season in the span of one week starting tonight. Both teams enter tonight's game with 5-5 records. Both have been outscored on the season thus far. Both teams are also coping with some early-season aches and pains.

The Yankees have been without Derek Jeter for three games due to a strained quad and have had Jorge Posada only intermittently due to a sore throwing shoulder, but haven't placed either player on the DL (Jeter's out again tonight, Posada will DH as Johnny Damon gets his first day off this season). The Red Sox just put third baseman Mike Lowell on the DL following a thumb injury he suffered in Wednesday night's game. That move shifts Kevin Youkilis to third base and inserts Sean Casey in the lineup. The Sox are also dealing with David Ortiz's continuing knee problems as the big DH is hitting a Giambi-like .083/.267/.167 thus far this season with just three hits in 45 plate appearances, but nine walks.

Given those bumps and bruises and assorted slow starts, neither team is doing a particularly good job of scoring runs thus far. The Sox are a tick below league average, scoring 4.2 runs per game while the Yankees remain the second-worst offense in baseball in the early going, ranking ahead of only the Giants' Quadruple-A squad. On the flip side, the Yankees rank fifth in the AL in preventing runs, allowing just 3.9 per game, while the Red Sox early-season struggles have been primarily due to their pitching, which is the fourth most permissive in the league.

Then again, Daisuke Matsuzaka has allowed just three runs in three starts, two of them coming in the season opener in Tokyo, and Josh Beckett and Clay Buchholz, both of whom will face the Yankees twice in the next week, have only made one start a piece thus far. Buchholz, who starts tonight against Chien-Ming Wang, struck out seven against just two walks in five innings in his first start of the year up in Toronto, but was undone by a Sean Casey error in the fourth inning that lead to three runs.

Beyond their weak performances thus far, these two teams are not only very evenly matched, but also very similarly constructed. Emerging young star at second base? Check and check. Emerging young talent in center field? Check and check. A lineup built around one of the most dangerous hitters in baseball? Check and check. A 36-year-old switch-hitting catcher? Check and check. A pair of youngsters in the rotation, one a potential ace and one projected as a reliable mid-rotation starter? Check and check. A grizzled veteran with a fastball in the mid-80s occupying another rotation spot? Check and check. An Asian ace holding the rotation together in the meantime? Check and check. One of the best closers in the game and an ace set-up man who came out of nowhere to cause a sensation last year? Check and check.

Hopefully when these two teams meet again in July, I can do a more detailed position-by-position breakdown. For now, I'd call things pretty even, giving the Yankees an edge on the bench for the first time in recent memory, but admitting that they don't really have a counterweight for Josh Beckett in the rotation, a fact exacerbated by the fact that Wang has a 6.17 ERA and 1.86 WHIP in Fenway on his career and has never escaped Boston with fewer than three runs allowed. On the other hand, the Yankees own Hideki Okajima (8.38 ERA, 1.86 WHIP in 9 2/3 innings), which tips the bullpen balance toward the Yankees considerably.

Buchholz makes his first start against the Yankees tonight and just his third ever at Fenway. The last two were his major league debut and his no-hitter against the Orioles. Here's hoping Wang can conjure up the strikeout stuff he had in his last start (6 Ks in 6 IP) to make tonight less memorable the for the 23-year-old Bosox rookie.

Comments (373)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-04-11 14:10:03
1.   tommyl
I guess Girardi does read Steve Goldman. Damon sits, Posada DHs, Matsui in LF. Not sure I agree with Goldman on this one, we'll see how it works out. I guess there's less ground to cover in LF at Fenway, which might be Joe's thinking too...
2008-04-11 14:10:41
2.   tommyl
Oh, and a big phew! on Horne. I was worried he'd done something serious to his rotator cuff.
2008-04-11 14:16:08
3.   Shaun P
1 Wang's groundball tendencies, I'm sure, also played into Girardi's. I'd bet with Moose on the mound tomorrow, and more potential flyballs, Damon is back in LF.

2 What is the word on Horne?

2008-04-11 14:19:20
4.   tommyl
2 Biceps strain, very mild. Hopefully can begin throwing again in a week or two. Nothing long term.
2008-04-11 14:20:04
5.   tommyl
3 Nice to see a manager making lineup decisions based on logic as opposed to Enrique Wilson owning Pedro Martinez, huh?
2008-04-11 14:20:53
6.   Cliff Corcoran
Chad Jennings' report on Horne:

the crux: It could be woise.

2008-04-11 14:21:13
7.   Shaun P
4 Thanks! That is a relief. IIRC, Horne has already had TJ surgery once before; when I heard he was hurt, I wondered if it was going to be really bad news.
2008-04-11 14:21:21
8.   Cliff Corcoran
5 There was logic behind that. It was just faulty logic.
2008-04-11 14:21:45
9.   Cliff Corcoran
7 I believe Horne had TJ in college.
2008-04-11 14:22:05
10.   tommyl
8 Was there logic in ever starting Sierra in RF?
2008-04-11 14:23:43
11.   Shaun P
6 Thanks to you too, Cliff. I've got to read Jennings' blog more regularly; he seems like he does a great job on the AAA beat. The few things I've read, he has lots of info, and he gets it across well.
2008-04-11 14:23:51
12.   Cliff Corcoran
Also per that Jennings post, Sean Henn is already starting his rehab work, which means the clock is ticking on a decision on his Yankee future. I've been very happy with Traber thus far, so I imagine Henn will have to pass through waivers to remain a Yankee.
2008-04-11 14:26:40
13.   Cliff Corcoran
10 Not that I can recall. He hit .211/.291/.394 in 21 games in RF in 2004. Ouch.

Incidentally, Ruben Sierra also had a 20-year major league career, and that doesn't include the 1999 season which he missed entirely. Wow.

2008-04-11 14:29:57
14.   Shaun P
12 Henn is a lefty, and throws somewhat hard for a lefty (92-ish); he can (in theory) start or relieve; and he turns 27 later in April. Any chance he makes it through waivers, back to AAA? Without any knowledge of their 40-man roster, you'd think the Nats would have room for someone like Henn.
2008-04-11 14:49:18
15.   Cliff Corcoran
14 I doubt he makes it. Someone will claim him. I'm not sure I care.
2008-04-11 15:18:25
16.   Shaun P
15 I don't think I care either. The potential upside to losing Henn is that whoever claims him has to give the Yanks something in return. Hopefully that something ultimately has more value than Henn does/did.
2008-04-11 15:23:19
17.   Cliff Corcoran
16 Don't get your hopes up. And they don't have to, the Yanks could just let him go, or the team could say he's not worth it and release their claim. I think at this point we've spent more time on Henn than he deserves, which should indicate what he's likely to bring in a DFA trade.
2008-04-11 15:36:02
18.   Shaun P
17 Not too much hope here, just a little bit. Something is better than nothing, usually.

In any case, Henn's departure (if nothing else) frees up a spot on the 40-man roster. I'm not sure who, if anyone, the Yanks will want to add to the 40-man (Gardner maybe?) right now, but the spot will be there.

(PS - Cliff, according to, Humberto Sanchez is on the 15-day DL, not the 60-day DL.)

2008-04-11 15:40:52
19.   Cliff Corcoran
18 has been wrong before. They had Phil Hughes on the 40-man for most of 2006. Also from the transactions:

"3/29/08 Placed RHP Humberto Sanchez on the 60-day disabled list recovering from April 2007 Tommy John surgery."

2008-04-11 15:50:06
20.   Shaun P
19 Good point. Then, unless I'm counting wrong, according to both the sidebar roster and's roster listing (considering Sanchez on the 60-day DL), the Yanks already have an opening on the 40-man. That opening is likely to be taken over by Sanchez himself, I guess. Unlike Pavano and Brackman, he shouldn't miss the entire season (I hope).
2008-04-11 15:50:45
21.   tommyl
13 I'll never forget the Ruben Sierra like batter in Jaleco's Bases Loaded for the original Nintendo. That's how long he played.
2008-04-11 15:54:44
22.   SF Yanks
Anyone have any word on the weather down in Bawston?
2008-04-11 16:01:22
23.   Zack
21 Ahh, Bases Loaded. My first and only baseball game, as I never actually owned RBI Baseball, just borrowed.

But Sierra, of course, has nothing on Julio Franco. Its amazing to look at both of their careers. Franco was all over the place for his career in terms of OPS+, while Sierra pretty much dropped off the table after 1995, his first half season in NYY. Its amazing that the guy, despite sporting some ungodly OPS and only once playing above average, managed to play for another TEN YEARS!!!!

Contrast that with Chili Davis, who in 18 FULL years in the majors (not counting the first cup of coffee), was only below average once.

2008-04-11 16:02:19
24.   Cliff Corcoran
22 Tarp's off the field. Looks good.
2008-04-11 16:02:47
25.   Shaun P
22 This morning's weather report called for rain tonight, starting around 8 or 9 PM; it was supposed to get heavy as the night went on. We might want to hope for an early Yank lead and a quick first 5 innings, if that report is still true.

Right now, its quite overcast here in the 'burbs.

2008-04-11 16:05:46
26.   Zack
The Sox broadcast was trying to mess with some dates there. They had Hughes listed as 22, but he is in fact 21.
2008-04-11 16:07:20
27.   Zack
ZOMG!!! Buccholz "only" throws a 91 MPH fastball!!11! He must not be legit :)
2008-04-11 16:08:11
28.   OldYanksFan
In NH, 70 miles North of Beantown, it is cold, wet and miserable. Rainouts ruin my day, but I hate having our guys play yet another game in horrid weather. Did I mention it's cold?

Jeez, I hope it's nice in TB.

2008-04-11 16:09:09
29.   SF Yanks
27 I was just about to type something similar, haha. Beat me to it.
2008-04-11 16:10:33
30.   Zack
29 The power of perception, huh? Laptop thief throws a nohitter and he has "ace" stuff. Hughes hurts himself throwing one and he "might not," the main reason seeming to be his FB velocity...
2008-04-11 16:12:26
31.   Zack
Well that was a slow loopy curve that Cano should have crushed
2008-04-11 16:19:06
32.   Mattpat11
Here comes Big Fatty.
2008-04-11 16:19:15
33.   Zack
Cripes the Yanks have been cursed with crap weather.

OK, clearly I am talking to myself

2008-04-11 16:19:26
34.   OldYanksFan
Did I mention that I HATE Matsui in LF?
2008-04-11 16:20:03
35.   OldYanksFan
Did Zack say something?
2008-04-11 16:20:40
36.   Zack
35 Who?
2008-04-11 16:21:05
37.   Mattpat11
35 No.
2008-04-11 16:21:14
38.   Zack
K-Wang continues!
2008-04-11 16:21:19
39.   Mattpat11
That was quick
2008-04-11 16:21:23
40.   tommyl
Damn, that was a nasty pitch
2008-04-11 16:21:43
41.   OldYanksFan
Cripes the Yanks have been cursed with crap weather.
2008-04-11 16:22:51
42.   Mattpat11
41 Bet they can't wait to play in that monstrosity in Tampa.
2008-04-11 16:25:19
43.   Zack
41 Hey! Just because you're ignoring me doesn't me I can't SEE that!!
2008-04-11 16:26:29
44.   Zack
Buccholz is exactly the kind of pitcher this offense, already out of whack, shouldn't be facing. They are so lost and off balance as it is, that a pitcher who relies on that should be able to dominate them..

Although thats two very hard hit balls that have managed to be hit right at people

2008-04-11 16:26:41
45.   Zack
A beach ball? Really Sox fans??
2008-04-11 16:28:11
46.   OldYanksFan
Buckholes appears to have a very good change-up.
2008-04-11 16:28:50
47.   51cq24
good thing michael kay is back, i was getting used to hearing the sounds of the game
2008-04-11 16:29:05
48.   Zack
Thats 3 ropes thus far
2008-04-11 16:29:10
49.   Mattpat11
2008-04-11 16:31:13
50.   Zack
Msn, that floating change-up looks so tempting

terrible swing Jorge

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-04-11 16:32:58
51.   Zack
Here comes Popup Giambi
2008-04-11 16:34:59
52.   51cq24
haven't really been here since october, did everyone change his or her name to "zack"?
2008-04-11 16:35:20
53.   Zack
Thats 4 ropes thus far this game, I mean, ROPES, and 3 of them have been crappily placed...
2008-04-11 16:36:03
54.   SF Yanks
I sort of wish Phil mixed up his pitches as much as Bucholz does.
2008-04-11 16:36:49
55.   51cq24
54 i was thinking he was getting away with not throwing enough fastballs
2008-04-11 16:42:46
56.   51cq24
that looked like a 4 seamer to k manny
2008-04-11 16:44:44
57.   Mattpat11
I don't care what anyone says, Manny scares me more than the Fat Man, and that first foul ball scared the crap out of me.
2008-04-11 16:46:06
58.   51cq24
57 i agree, but i do care what anyone says
2008-04-11 16:54:10
59.   Mattpat11
Anyone else having audio issues?
2008-04-11 16:54:17
60.   OldYanksFan
I believe Zack agrees too.
2008-04-11 16:55:32
61.   Alex Belth
Some nice pitching by both guys here early, huh?
2008-04-11 16:57:33
62.   51cq24
59 just that kay keeps talking
2008-04-11 17:02:24
63.   51cq24
61 yeah but buchholz is facing a shitty lineup
2008-04-11 17:04:57
64.   Maniakes
63 And Buchholz is throwing almost twice and many pitches (53) as Wang (30).
2008-04-11 17:05:40
65.   Cliff Corcoran
62 My favorite Kay quote from today thus far is his calling Bill Buckner a "borderline Hall of Famer." Talk about overcompensating. Buckner's career OPS+ is 99 and he made one All-Star team in 22 years in the bigs. Looking at the HOF standards stats on B-Ref, Buckner was only half way to the HOF after all those years.
2008-04-11 17:09:36
66.   Maniakes
64 Whoops, forgot we were in the middle of an inning. Wang's been more efficient than Buchholz, but not by as much as I thought.
2008-04-11 17:11:00
67.   Cliff Corcoran
I take it back, telling Cone he got to go out on his own terms because they really did rip the uniform off him beats the Buckner thing.
2008-04-11 17:11:33
68.   OldYanksFan
Great positioning by ARod or what?
Papi now has made as many outs as ABs.
2008-04-11 17:12:32
69.   Cliff Corcoran
I'm sorry, but that was an infield hit off Wang.
2008-04-11 17:12:57
70.   51cq24
65 i also liked that he said something like "for some reason" fans blame buckner more than anyone else.

something i remember from 99 or 2000 is kay at least intimating that since el duque throws so many 1-2-3 it was only a matter of time before he threw a perfect game.

that was clearly an error, he missed the throw.

2008-04-11 17:13:07
71.   fansince77
How is that a hit by Pedroia? If ARod makes a good throw he is out by a step. That was an error.
2008-04-11 17:13:32
72.   Cliff Corcoran
69 Okay, after seeing that replay, I'm less sure.
2008-04-11 17:14:53
73.   Andre
are both of these pitchers pitching great, or are the hitters all just sucking?
2008-04-11 17:15:46
74.   Andre
it's funny seeing you guys talk about what Kay's saying. I'm watching the NESN feed here in Mass. Gotta say, Boston has some of the best announcers around
2008-04-11 17:16:12
75.   51cq24
73 i think they both look pretty good but wang is pitching great, mixing in sliders and 4 seamers
2008-04-11 17:16:17
76.   Cliff Corcoran
70 I'm not going to rehash Game 6, but Buckner shouldn't have taken the bulk of the blame like he did. Kay's right about that.
2008-04-11 17:16:41
77.   fansince77
Though only one hit so far, much better at bats by the Yanks and some balls hit hard. This is Yankee ball and feels like something good is about to happen.
2008-04-11 17:17:10
78.   Maniakes
73 Not all of them. Matsui's doing pretty well so far.
2008-04-11 17:17:50
79.   51cq24
76 but it isn't a mystery that he was blamed even if it wasn't fair
2008-04-11 17:17:57
80.   Andre
posada has more home runs in Fenway than at any other park? Guess it makes sense (probably part of the reason why sox fans seem to hate him more than other Yanks
2008-04-11 17:18:40
81.   Cliff Corcoran
I like Cone so much better in the booth than doing pre/post-game analysis.
2008-04-11 17:20:09
82.   Andre
i feel a big hit for giambino coming
2008-04-11 17:20:32
83.   51cq24
81 definitely. in fact, 74 , i like all the announcers besides kay. the radio is obviously a disaster.
2008-04-11 17:21:56
84.   Cliff Corcoran
80 Always seemed to me they hate Jeter and Rodriguez most followed by Matsui, who they see as a Sox-killer (the stats don't really support that, though).

76 I suppose.

2008-04-11 17:22:18
85.   fansince77
Here comes an Uncle Charlie Giambi. Be ready.
2008-04-11 17:22:21
86.   51cq24
that's a nasty change, his best of the night
2008-04-11 17:22:27
87.   Cliff Corcoran
82 In what month?
2008-04-11 17:23:05
88.   Andre
I hear a lot of respect for jeter up here in boston. I also hear a lot of respect for Matsui. Without fail though, everyone up here I talk to HATES posada
2008-04-11 17:23:30
89.   Mattpat11
Jose Molina leads the team in doubles.
2008-04-11 17:23:33
90.   fansince77
How freaking great has this guy been?
2008-04-11 17:24:01
91.   Andre
Molina feels like the best pickup for the Yanks in the past 8 years
2008-04-11 17:24:04
92.   51cq24
88 i assume because they love their captain and have catcher envy
2008-04-11 17:24:10
93.   Cliff Corcoran
88 Huh. Okay. I can see that. Posada's the Yankees designated red-ass, so I can see how Sox fans would react against him. Still, I bet Rodriguez has him beat.
2008-04-11 17:24:23
94.   fansince77
Lets go Attorney General!
2008-04-11 17:25:02
95.   51cq24
by the way, how great was that kay call ("molina wayyy out in front...")?
2008-04-11 17:25:33
96.   Mattpat11
walks Alberto.

Come on Melky!

2008-04-11 17:25:44
97.   Cliff Corcoran
Speaking of, with Millar and Nixon gone and Schilling on the DL, who's your least-favorite Red Sock? Varitek? Papelbon? Beckett? Manny? Ortiz?

For me, I think I have to go Varitek.

2008-04-11 17:25:48
98.   Andre
Rodriguez probably has him beat now, but all of my friends here did want Rodriguez when he originally was supposed to come to the Sox.
2008-04-11 17:26:32
99.   monkeypants
gamecast is all frogged up--what happened to Giambi?
2008-04-11 17:27:02
100.   Mattpat11
97 Varitek. Varitek more than anyone ever except Traht.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-04-11 17:27:12
101.   Andre
least favorite Sox, in this order:

1. pedroia
2. youkilis
3. beckett
4. papelbon
5. varitek

2008-04-11 17:27:34
102.   Cliff Corcoran
A hit here chases Buchholz as Lopez will pitch to Cano and Abreu.
2008-04-11 17:28:03
103.   Mattpat11
God damnit.
2008-04-11 17:28:11
104.   51cq24
97 schilling will have to be off the team for him to be replaced in that category. but not counting him, i'd agree with varitek.

99 k'd on a nasty change.

2008-04-11 17:28:51
105.   Cliff Corcoran
Drat. Damn rookie. ;)
2008-04-11 17:29:59
106.   Andre
that was pretty lucky. one thing I envy about the sox is that their bench always seems to be better than Yanks. They don't seem to suffer at all by putting youkilis at 3rd, and now casey at 1st. Their bench seems like all starters on any other team
2008-04-11 17:32:06
107.   Cliff Corcoran
101 Youkilis is a close second in my book.
2008-04-11 17:32:20
108.   51cq24
101 you just hate ugly people.

106 casey is not that good.

2008-04-11 17:32:28
109.   Mattpat11
106 Wilson would have dropped it.
2008-04-11 17:33:18
110.   Andre
108 nice! probably part of it

is casey better than giambi, ensberg, betemit, duncan at first?

2008-04-11 17:33:23
111.   Cliff Corcoran
106 I'll take Molina/Betemit/Duncan/Ensberg over Cash/Cora/Crisp/Casey, even if Crisp is the best player of the eight.
2008-04-11 17:33:33
112.   Mattpat11
I hear there's alot of room in deep right field.
2008-04-11 17:34:33
113.   Eirias
Damn it Sterling, stop scaring me with the "hit it high" comments.
2008-04-11 17:34:44
114.   51cq24
nice play!
2008-04-11 17:34:59
115.   Andre
111 it's probably more perception over reality for me. the sox bench always SEEMS to be better, even if they're factually not
2008-04-11 17:35:21
116.   Andre
2008-04-11 17:35:28
117.   Eirias
And, of course, I jinx it.
2008-04-11 17:35:38
118.   Mattpat11
What the fuck was that Bobby?
2008-04-11 17:35:55
119.   OldYanksFan
Crap Bobby just missed it. Should be scoreless.
2008-04-11 17:36:24
120.   Andre
tipped off his glove. I think he bumped the wall jumping and threw him off
2008-04-11 17:36:29
121.   Mattpat11
Hopefully Matsui gets up this inning.
2008-04-11 17:39:15
122.   Chyll Will
Was Bobby ever subjected to torture sessions with endless playbacks of Pink Floyd? What is it with him and walls?
2008-04-11 17:39:36
123.   Mattpat11
122 Brick wall in Philly
2008-04-11 17:42:28
124.   Chyll Will
123 Ah. Birth of a DH, how unfortunate.
2008-04-11 17:43:42
125.   51cq24
you'd think they'd start to read that curve after seeing like 100 of them
2008-04-11 17:44:42
126.   51cq24
wow i can't believe yes just captured that so well
2008-04-11 17:46:16
127.   Andre
mike timlin should do wonders for the yanks' lineup
2008-04-11 17:46:19
128.   Mattpat11
God damn wall.
2008-04-11 17:46:46
129.   Shaun P
88 On the flip side, I've never heard any Sox fan say anything bad about Bernie, and they all seem to be scared (and very respectful) of Pettitte.

97 Schilling in first by a mile, then Papelbon. I want to dislike Wakefield, because he gave them such a sweetheart deal (perpetual $4M/year options!?!?), but I can't. That man has persevered.

2008-04-11 17:47:39
130.   Chyll Will
Manny gets to wear a durag, nice!
2008-04-11 17:47:41
131.   Shaun P
Is Gameday messed up, or has Wang really only thrown 49 pitches through 5 full innings? If so, wowie-zowie.
2008-04-11 17:48:36
132.   Shaun P
How did that second pitch to Posada look on TV? Gameday has it about 3 inches inside.
2008-04-11 17:49:05
133.   51cq24
132 was close but 3" sounds about right
2008-04-11 17:49:28
134.   Andre
132 looked about 3 inches inside
2008-04-11 17:49:42
135.   Chyll Will
132 I didn't see it, but the YES booth agreed with you...
2008-04-11 17:49:46
136.   OldYanksFan
We seem to be way outhitting them, yet it's tied. Good omen or bad?
2008-04-11 17:50:18
137.   williamnyy23
It's tough to say it with 1 run and 4 hits, but I don't think Buchholz pitched well in this game. A combination of hard hit balls right at people and the Yankees inability to realize that his only effective pitch was the curve has this a much closer game than it should be.
2008-04-11 17:50:39
138.   Andre
anyone have espn insider? wondering what their "3 things to watch for this series" are
2008-04-11 17:51:10
139.   51cq24
137 tough to say it but 100% true
2008-04-11 17:51:34
140.   Andre
135 NESN also agreed but said the ump has been consistently calling that a strike.
2008-04-11 17:52:11
141.   williamnyy23
138 If I remember correctly: Joba...Buchholz being like Scott the Sox pitch to Arod and how the Yankees pitch to Manny/Ortiz.
2008-04-11 17:52:14
142.   51cq24
that's definitely a changeup
2008-04-11 17:54:20
143.   Andre
141 thanks
2008-04-11 17:54:47
144.   Mattpat11
57 pitches through six innings.
2008-04-11 17:55:29
145.   Bagel Boy
Bobby Meacham is going to slowly drive me crazy, like he did my father before me.
2008-04-11 17:57:02
146.   williamnyy23
How much longer can the Yankees depend on Bengie Molina to carry the offense? Can Giambi try to hit a pop up off the wall? Will AG get his first Yankee RBI? These questions and more answered in the 7th.
2008-04-11 17:57:12
147.   Mattpat11
2008-04-11 17:57:30
148.   Mattpat11
146 Jose.
2008-04-11 17:57:49
149.   Chyll Will
145 It's like he stepped right out of a time capsule...
2008-04-11 17:58:19
150.   williamnyy23
148 Bengie, Yadir, Jose...what's the difference.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-04-11 17:58:29
151.   Mattpat11
Hit it off the GD wall, Jason
2008-04-11 17:59:12
152.   Chyll Will
148 It might be pejorative >;)
2008-04-11 17:59:26
153.   51cq24
144 cone threw 88 pitches in his perfect game (0 3 ball counts). wang would be perfect right now if not for arod's bad throw and a bobby's whiff.
2008-04-11 17:59:36
154.   williamnyy23
That pitch right there was tailor made for the wall!
2008-04-11 17:59:57
155.   Mattpat11
Or do that. That's fine.
2008-04-11 18:00:05
156.   williamnyy23
154 Or, over it!
2008-04-11 18:00:12
157.   OldYanksFan
2008-04-11 18:00:39
158.   Andre
I was a few innings early with my prediction : )
2008-04-11 18:00:39
159.   Chyll Will
151 "Nah, I'll just hit it out, thank you very much... "
2008-04-11 18:01:28
160.   Mattpat11
another double for Molina.
2008-04-11 18:02:10
161.   OldYanksFan
Giambi has made a number of loud outs. His numbers are deceptively bad.

CC with 18 ERs in 14 IP this year.

2008-04-11 18:02:19
162.   williamnyy23
No bunt here!
2008-04-11 18:02:50
163.   monkeypants
2008-04-11 18:02:51
164.   Shaun P
158 Nonetheless, you called it! - 82

Now let's see if AG does get his first Yankee RBI.

2008-04-11 18:03:04
165.   williamnyy23
I dont know how wise it is to sacrifice Molina to third. You kind of still need a hit to score him.
2008-04-11 18:03:30
166.   monkeypants
162 Ha! You answered my question before I asked it.
2008-04-11 18:04:00
167.   Shaun P
162 163 GRRRR.

This "AG bunting before the 8th inning of a close game" stuff has got to end.

2008-04-11 18:04:18
168.   51cq24
165 i agree but i think it's the right move with ag up
2008-04-11 18:04:25
169.   williamnyy23
146 Answers: Yes...Yes...we'll never know.
2008-04-11 18:04:48
170.   Chyll Will
"Is this the okey-doke?"
2008-04-11 18:05:37
171.   monkeypants
165 Of course, you might need two hits to score him from second, and with Gonzalez up...
2008-04-11 18:05:57
172.   williamnyy23
168 But, I am more concerned with the runner on 3B. You basically need a hit or a very deep fly ball to center or right to score him. Not sure if you get the full advantage with such a slow runner on base.
2008-04-11 18:06:46
173.   51cq24
that slide was melkyesque!
2008-04-11 18:07:09
174.   Shaun P
Melky delivers from the right side, again!
2008-04-11 18:07:11
175.   williamnyy23
OK...I was wrong. Great job by Melky to get that deep fly ball.
2008-04-11 18:07:30
176.   Chyll Will
I'll take that run and ask for more...
2008-04-11 18:07:43
177.   williamnyy23
Melky has played the most fundamentally sound baseball so far this season.
2008-04-11 18:07:47
178.   Andre
how does the slowest man alive tag up? love molina!
2008-04-11 18:08:53
179.   williamnyy23
178 I was shocked he made it...Drew's arm is not as strong as it once was or he just failed to get a good throw off.
2008-04-11 18:08:54
180.   cult of basebaal
the melk-man delivereth!!!

nice to see some good hitting when it matters

2008-04-11 18:09:34
181.   monkeypants
Now some really interesting questions arise: How long do you go with Wang? Is Joba available?
2008-04-11 18:09:36
182.   Sliced Bread
Melky's a stud. 4th outfielder, my ass.
2008-04-11 18:09:40
183.   51cq24
179 he didn't seem to be trying that hard
2008-04-11 18:10:14
184.   williamnyy23
Wouldn't it be funny if the biggest reason the Yankees are glad they didn't make the Johan deal is Melky and not Hughes?
2008-04-11 18:10:48
185.   Mattpat11
Wang through eight, Mo for the ninth.
2008-04-11 18:11:12
186.   Chyll Will
Cano swinging for the midges...
2008-04-11 18:11:41
187.   Andre
184 that would mean that phil is probably sucking up the joint, which would be decidedly NOT funny
2008-04-11 18:12:25
188.   williamnyy23
185 I like that plan...maybe Joba to bail Wang out in the 8th. Papi and Manny are lurking though.
2008-04-11 18:13:21
189.   Chyll Will
184 I wouldn't laugh at that if this were August...
2008-04-11 18:13:53
190.   51cq24
187 if melky somehow turns into bernie that would be funny
2008-04-11 18:14:12
191.   Mattpat11
188 Is Joba available?
2008-04-11 18:14:39
192.   williamnyy23
187 189 I meant funny in an ironic way, but maybe you're looking at it from a glass half full perspective. Hughes could still be very good, but Melky just might be better :)
2008-04-11 18:15:08
193.   williamnyy23
192 Glass half empty I meant.
2008-04-11 18:15:31
194.   51cq24
193 same thing
2008-04-11 18:15:45
195.   Mattpat11
Got him that time.
2008-04-11 18:16:21
196.   williamnyy23
194 Not really...depends on the material of the glass and the liquid inside.
2008-04-11 18:17:04
197.   Chyll Will
193 Depends on what we're drinking now, wouldn't it? >;)
2008-04-11 18:17:45
198.   51cq24
196 when i'm half full, i'm not half empty
2008-04-11 18:18:01
199.   Chyll Will
196 Jinx! Hah, first one of the season! You owe me a root beer...
2008-04-11 18:18:05
200.   OldYanksFan
What a freakin' arm ARod has!
Papi down. 3/39 this year.
4 outs to go.
A few blips, but our pitching has been outstanding!
I know Mattpatt is VERY happy. Joyous even.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2008-04-11 18:19:31
201.   51cq24
nasty! wang is pitching one of the best games i've seen him pitch.
2008-04-11 18:19:36
202.   Shaun P
140 OK, I've gone over every called strike on Gameday, and here are the ones it shows as "Called Strikes" despite being waaayyy out of the zone:

1st pitch to Ortiz in the 1st
1st pitch to A-Rod in the 2nd
5th pitch to Matsui in the 2nd
2nd pitch to Abreu in the 6th
2nd pitch to Pedroia in the 7th

Consistent or not, I hate it when the umps call the strike zone according to Eric Gregg in the '97 NLCS, and not according to the rule book.

2008-04-11 18:19:49
203.   OldYanksFan
And RastaMannian goes down!
2008-04-11 18:20:05
204.   williamnyy23
199 I don't believe in matter how many Sox jerseys you bury under the stadium. Still, I'll get you a root beer...Barqs...A&W...Dr. Browns?
2008-04-11 18:20:33
205.   51cq24
202 i actually think this may be the best performance by the home plate umpire yet this season
2008-04-11 18:20:49
206.   Mattpat11
69 pitches through seven innings.
2008-04-11 18:20:59
207.   Eirias
I don't care about the hitting. This is amazing.
2008-04-11 18:21:10
208.   Chyll Will
140 I guess NESN was right about that pitch then...
2008-04-11 18:21:11
209.   monkeypants 70 pitches and the big guns down, Wang may be able to finish this game.
2008-04-11 18:21:34
210.   51cq24
you don't know what would happen if plays are made but wang should be perfect right now.
2008-04-11 18:22:11
211.   Shaun P
Why is Francona going from his best lefty to his second best lefty for just one more batter? Okajima only threw 8 pitches; is he hurt? Or is Tito saving him?

And doesn't that empty the Sox bullpen lefty options?

2008-04-11 18:22:22
212.   cult of basebaal
wow ... those last 2 pitches to manny were just perfect ... this is the best game i've seen doodles pitch against the red sox and one of the best games i've seen him pitch, period!

very, very encouraging start to the year for wang

2008-04-11 18:22:35
213.   vockins
That Manny Ramirez K was gorgeous.
2008-04-11 18:23:22
214.   Chyll Will
204 Mmm, I never pass up an opportunity for a Barq's. Kicks the $%#@ out of ya... >;)
2008-04-11 18:23:33
215.   3rd gen yankee fan
Happy happy happy!
2008-04-11 18:23:36
216.   Shaun P
202 Oh, and the pitch to Posada which got me wondering in the first place.

205 Of all the games I've seen via Gameday, I think you're right.

2008-04-11 18:25:23
217.   Chyll Will
212 Doodles? what did I miss?
2008-04-11 18:26:09
218.   ChrisS
There goes A-Rod being unclutch again ...
2008-04-11 18:27:07
219.   williamnyy23
Pedroia got out of there fast...think he remembers Arod's slide from last season?
2008-04-11 18:27:46
220.   51cq24
219 maybe, but i don't
2008-04-11 18:28:42
221.   51cq24
i love when teams let jorge face a lefty
2008-04-11 18:29:57
222.   51cq24
looked like giambi wanted to look at whatever fight is going on in the stands
2008-04-11 18:30:42
223.   cult of basebaal

"We're gonna pitch a wang dang doodle all night long
All night long
All night long
All night long
All night long
We're gonna pitch a wang dang doodle all night long"


2008-04-11 18:31:15
224.   Chyll Will
221 THAT's why I find it strange when Posada bats righty! Thanks, I was getting dizzy there for a moment...
2008-04-11 18:31:48
225.   Shaun P
Can't leave in the lefty to face Mickey Molina, huh? =)
2008-04-11 18:32:43
226.   Chyll Will
223 Got it. Is that anything like pitching woo?
2008-04-11 18:34:23
227.   Chyll Will
225 (Shhh! He's the one they don't know about yet...)
2008-04-11 18:35:19
228.   cult of basebaal
223 willie dixon song ... i have no idea WTF "pitch a wang dang doodle all night long" means and, frankly, we're probably better off not knowing, but i like the obscurity of the reference ...
2008-04-11 18:36:00
229.   OldYanksFan
As good as this game is for Wang, lets not forget JD's HR should have been caught.
2008-04-11 18:36:58
230.   Chyll Will
228 I like it... very 1930's gangster flick >;)
2008-04-11 18:37:04
231.   51cq24
229 like i said, he should be perfect (unless you think arod shouldn't have even gotten to that pedroia gb)
2008-04-11 18:37:29
232.   ChrisS
Jose ain't going down without a fight.
2008-04-11 18:37:47
233.   williamnyy23
Still only a two run game...Yanks haven't made the most of their opportunities.
2008-04-11 18:38:12
234.   Shaun P
Crud. I wondered when Aardsma was going to break out the breaking ball. Sigh.

Nice battle, Mickey Molina! weeping would have been proud (until the last pitch), I think.

2008-04-11 18:38:19
235.   cult of basebaal
230 hahahhaha ... i was gonna write ... i also like it because it reminds me of the character "noodles" from Once Upon a Time in America
2008-04-11 18:38:24
236.   51cq24
233 half empty
2008-04-11 18:38:57
237.   Shaun P
Is anyone warming in the bullpen for the Yanks?
2008-04-11 18:40:01
238.   Chyll Will
236 Better not be, he owes me a root beer! >;)
2008-04-11 18:42:17
239.   51cq24
237 joba
2008-04-11 18:42:29
240.   Sliced Bread
233 true, Scarecrow. But we're not in Kansas anymore.

Tonight we restore order!

2008-04-11 18:42:39
241.   Chyll Will
OMG, Abreu didn't touch the wall there! (Half full)
2008-04-11 18:43:33
242.   51cq24
matsui has to dh. what was that look there?
2008-04-11 18:43:54
243.   51cq24
2008-04-11 18:44:16
244.   Andre
wang dang doodle - ted nugent?
2008-04-11 18:44:41
245.   williamnyy23
238 What? You wanted a full glass?
2008-04-11 18:45:50
246.   51cq24
gotta go. good to be back on the banter for a game. go yanks.
2008-04-11 18:45:52
247.   cult of basebaal
wow ... 8 innings, 78 pitches ... damn fine job, doodles, damn fine!
2008-04-11 18:46:11
248.   Chyll Will
Wang being democratic with the outfield (and conservative with the pitch count)
2008-04-11 18:46:27
249.   Mattpat11
78 through 8
2008-04-11 18:46:32
250.   Eirias
Root Beer? Go for good stuff, Birch Beer.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2008-04-11 18:48:03
251.   Chyll Will
245 A mug will do just fine, thanks >;)
2008-04-11 18:48:39
252.   RIYank

What a game. And I was worried about Wanger, who's had a lot of trouble in Fenway.

2008-04-11 18:48:41
253.   Mattpat11
2008-04-11 18:48:48
254.   cult of basebaal
so ... assuming no score in the top o' 9 ... what to do?

1) go with the pitch count and leave wang in until he runs into trouble

2) warm mo but stay with wang until he puts someone on

3) go with mo

2008-04-11 18:48:53
255.   Chyll Will
Did anyone just see that?
2008-04-11 18:49:42
256.   Andre
go with wanger until he's in trouble
2008-04-11 18:49:51
257.   Shaun P
254 I say 2a) warm mo but stay with Wang until he allows a run

255 What? AG's double (I'm guessing of the wall)?

2008-04-11 18:50:04
258.   Mattpat11
254 door number 2
2008-04-11 18:50:14
259.   Chyll Will
You will bunt and you will like it!
2008-04-11 18:50:25
260.   ChrisS


But if they can get AG around to score, then definitely leave him in there to finish his own game.

2008-04-11 18:50:35
261.   williamnyy23
254 If Joba warmed up hard, I might go to him if Wang gets in trouble. Otherwise, you have Mo light toss and give Wang at least two batters.
2008-04-11 18:50:40
262.   cult of basebaal
oh dear ... melk-man is attempting to bunt (covers eyes)
2008-04-11 18:51:06
263.   cult of basebaal
i stand corrected ... nicely done melky
2008-04-11 18:51:09
264.   Mattpat11
257 it dropped in at the base of the wall
2008-04-11 18:51:23
265.   Chyll Will
257 Actually it bounced up against the wall, but I was surprised it got that far...
2008-04-11 18:51:34
266.   RIYank
In principle I'm against these bunts, but it's really hard to argue with the move. Somehow the fact that we've been unable to come up with the key hit to put the game away makes me feel like playing for one run is fine.
2008-04-11 18:51:45
267.   williamnyy23
Cano needs to wake can live with bad results, but his approach has been awful. He seems to be mailing in his ABs. It just doesn't make sense.
2008-04-11 18:51:48
268.   Chyll Will
264 Jinx...
2008-04-11 18:52:02
269.   Mattpat11
261 I wouldn't waste Joba on this game.
2008-04-11 18:52:04
270.   Shaun P
262 GRRR.

Why not let Melky hit?

2008-04-11 18:52:17
271.   rsmith51
261 Agreed. I would pitch Joba if needed. Give Mo the night off.
2008-04-11 18:52:31
272.   cult of basebaal
aaaaah, fucking A, ca-NO!


2008-04-11 18:52:59
273.   Mattpat11
That should make the decision for Joe.
2008-04-11 18:53:07
274.   Chyll Will
Schweet! Cadillac Bob...
2008-04-11 18:53:15
275.   williamnyy23
Nice hustle Bobby! That play is the difference between Cano and Pedroia on defense. Cano's arm is so much stronger.
2008-04-11 18:53:41
276.   RIYank
Start with Wang, for sure.
2008-04-11 18:54:03
277.   cult of basebaal

nice hustle bobby!

2008-04-11 18:54:08
278.   Shaun P
266 I'd argue that's exactly why they ought to be avoiding the sac bunts - the offense needs to wake up and score multiple runs, but "when you play for one run, that's what you'll get."
2008-04-11 18:54:09
279.   ChrisS
complete game, CMW.


2008-04-11 18:54:11
280.   williamnyy23
269 It's not wasting...its using him if the game dictates it. What I would hate to do is warm Joba, not use him and then go to Mo. That kind of hurts them both for the weekend.
2008-04-11 18:55:09
281.   RIYank
I'm with Mattpat. If we need a reliever (which I doubt), it makes more sense to go with Mo. That way we have two innings worth of Joba tomorrow. Or maybe 2 1/3?
2008-04-11 18:55:15
282.   Chyll Will
I'd like for another "unclutchy" performance here...
2008-04-11 18:57:17
283.   williamnyy23
281 But, if Joba warmed up hard, you might not have him for 2 innings. Besides, nothign wrong with 2 innings of Mo on Saturday coming off a day of rest.
2008-04-11 18:57:28
284.   Chyll Will
282 Luckily I put that in sarcasm quotes >;)
2008-04-11 18:57:46
285.   Eirias
Look at A-Rod there. Sad. His batting average this game is only 0.400.
2008-04-11 18:58:50
286.   RIYank
278 I was really just articulating my feelings. I do think it's correct to play for more than one run.
2008-04-11 18:59:49
287.   Sliced Bread
I, for one, love the sac bunts, and what they've accomplished tonight.
2008-04-11 19:00:44
288.   Chyll Will
Those who chose Door number 2, you win a prize!
2008-04-11 19:02:38
289.   williamnyy23
287 Both bunts did actually work. Even though Cano failed, AG doesn't score on Abreu's IF single. Sometimes context dictates strategy more than a formula. In this instance, the Yankees have been struggling to score and Wang was dealing, giving a run a higher marginal value. If Girardi can avoid formulas and stick to reading the game, I have confidence he'll make the right call a lot more often than not.
2008-04-11 19:03:52
290.   Mattpat11
I sort of hope he give up a hit here. I don't want the one hit to be Abreu's botch.
2008-04-11 19:04:31
291.   williamnyy23
Wang DOESN'T have to work from the stretch. Let Pedroia steal 2nd and 3rd. MUST GET PEDROIA!
2008-04-11 19:04:38
292.   RIYank
Now, if that were the first hit of the game for the Sox, what would ESPN say about the bunt?
2008-04-11 19:04:55
293.   Eirias
I hate Crisp right now so very much.
2008-04-11 19:05:32
294.   Shaun P
289 Melky's bunt in the 9th bothers me only in principle, not in practice. AG's bunt in the 6th bothers me, for the reasons I said in 268 .

Man, if Abreu had caught Drew's home run, the name Coco Crisp would never be spoken here again, without severe penalty.

2008-04-11 19:06:38
295.   RIYank
Oh yeah!

I can't remember when I saw a better-pitched game for the Yanks.

2008-04-11 19:06:40
296.   williamnyy23
Matsui is a heart attack waiting to happen!
2008-04-11 19:06:44
297.   Shaun P
292 More interestingly, what would say about it? I seem to recall a bunt for a hit by Ben Davis in a no-no he was pitching once upon a time - or was it a perfecto?
2008-04-11 19:07:01
298.   Bagel Boy
Utterly dominant.
2008-04-11 19:07:15
299.   fansince77
Was this a two hour baseball game? official time anyone?
2008-04-11 19:07:38
300.   Mattpat11
Fine baseball game.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2008-04-11 19:07:45
301.   williamnyy23
299 More like 3.
2008-04-11 19:08:10
302.   cult of basebaal
way to go doodles!

good to get this first one ... since we've got moose vs beckett tomorrow

2008-04-11 19:08:13
303.   williamnyy23
299 Official Time: 2:59
2008-04-11 19:08:24
304.   SF Yanks
2008-04-11 19:08:30
305.   wsporter
And that ladies and germs is how it's done; nice job CMW. Kick ass job as a matter of fact.
2008-04-11 19:08:42
306.   Shaun P
Now the entire bullpen is rested up. Brilliant, Wang.
2008-04-11 19:09:45
307.   williamnyy23
Three baserunners...error...quasi-misplay...bunt. Pretty impressive.
2008-04-11 19:10:20
308.   williamnyy23
Three baserunners...error...quasi-misplay...bunt. Pretty impressive.
2008-04-11 19:10:30
309.   Chyll Will
293 Meh. I didn't mind; the way Wang was on today, even a homer there wouldn't have concerned me. Of course, that would've just brought out Mo...
2008-04-11 19:11:09
310.   fansince77
301 My bad - I am in Central time- got a little excited...but still- a veritable drag race in SUX v Yankee terms.
2008-04-11 19:11:20
311.   RIYank
307 Really, it was pitched as well as a perfecto, I don't think there's any question about it. The only difference was a tidbit of luck here, a smidgen of defense there...
2008-04-11 19:11:44
312.   JeremyM
So, umm, we might have something with this Wang fellow, huh? Wow.
2008-04-11 19:12:16
313.   Alex Belth
It doesn't get much better than this. Guys, I think it is safe to say that we might not see as beautifully pitched a ballgame by a Yankee pitcher this season. That was just gorgeous.
2008-04-11 19:12:28
314.   Chyll Will
294 Well yeah, there is that >;)
2008-04-11 19:13:15
315.   OldYanksFan
Under 90 pitches for Wang's CG?
2008-04-11 19:14:03
316.   Shaun P
303 The Yanks seem to like to finish games up in under 3 hours this year.

4/1 vs TOR: 2:31
4/3 vs TOR: 2:45
4/6 vs TB: 2:43
4/7 vs TB: 2:53
4/9 vs KC: 2:45
4/10 vs KC: 2:52 (not including delays)
4/11 vs BOS: 2:59

Two other games were under 3:10 (4/4 vs TB and 4/5 vs TB) while 4/2 vs TOR was 3:10 on the nose.

2008-04-11 19:14:14
317.   Sliced Bread
289 exactly my thinking, william.

Nice game by Girardi, outstanding effort by Wang. Tomorrow's a beautiful day.

2008-04-11 19:15:17
318.   williamnyy23
312 Nah...he can win another 19 and some moron next year will try to argue that he really isn't a top pitcher.
2008-04-11 19:18:40
319.   RIYank
315 I think he threw 94.
2008-04-11 19:21:23
320.   OldYanksFan
NESN says 93 pitches for Wang.
2008-04-11 19:22:48
321.   wsporter
The NESN Gun had him at 95 on a 4 seamer in the 9th. Nice stuff.
2008-04-11 19:23:17
322.   wsporter
321 that's 95 mph
2008-04-11 19:26:19
323.   williamnyy23
322 Conversely, the YES gun had Buchholz topping out at 91, but more consistently in the 88-90 range. I even saw a few fastballs in the mid-80s.
2008-04-11 19:31:31
324.   Mattpat11
sportsline says 93 through nine.
2008-04-11 19:32:08
325.   Shaun P
323 Hmm. Gameday had Buccholz at 90-93 MPH on the fastball; none below 90. Meanwhile, Gameday also had Wang throwing two 4-seamers at 95 MPH in the 9th.

Could the Yanks be dialing the gun down a bit for Sox pitchers? What did the YES gun have Wang at?

2008-04-11 19:33:08
326.   wsporter
323 The NESN gun had Laptop topping out at about 91 from what I saw and had a lot of high 80's as well. It's April and he's still a baby.

Dis you get a read on CMW on the Yes Gun in the 9th?

2008-04-11 19:35:06
327.   williamnyy23
325 They didn't have it on as much for Wang. In fact, I never noticed it at all. YES could be using a slow gun, but that would mean Hughes' velocity has actually been higher.
2008-04-11 19:39:18
328.   Rob Middletown CT
Sweet, sweet win. Wierd, though. Wang gave up a ton of flyballs (and several line drives that found gloves).

The HR was catchable. Sigh.

The "error" was a hit, IMO.

I love it. I said I'd be ok with 1 out of 3. We've got the one. Pressure is off a bit.

2008-04-11 19:46:59
329.   Bagel Boy
313 I couldn't agree more. That was one of the most dominating performances I've ever seen that my kids will never talk about. Simply amazing.
2008-04-11 19:49:46
330.   Bagel Boy
326 NESN also had Wang topping out at 95. As did Gameday.
2008-04-11 19:52:45
331.   weeping for brunnhilde
Great, great game, Team!

We're coming around.

Chien's a stud, Andy's a golden god, and how 'bout that Molina, eh?

2008-04-11 19:53:25
332.   RIYank
I'm sure Papi will be raking in July, but it's soooo nice to see him struggle. (Not that I dislike him personally, but for its effect on RSN.)
2008-04-11 19:54:18
333.   weeping for brunnhilde
328 I know, he actually got hit a lot harder than the linescore would indicate. Lots of hard line drives, but they were all caught. A couple to Abreu, at least one I remember to Melk, the final out to Matsui.
2008-04-11 19:55:06
334.   wsporter
330 Yeah I had that up a little higher 321 and that was in the 9th . Makes me think they may be about right. That's great stuff from the Ace of our Staff in enemy territory. A big big start; can't say enough good things about it.
2008-04-11 19:56:29
335.   Bagel Boy
Okay, here's the emerging question:

a) Jorge to DH and Jose at C


b) Jeter to 1B and Gonzo at SS

2008-04-11 19:58:05
336.   Bagel Boy
333 I watched a different game. Even those line drives died a slow death.
2008-04-11 19:59:52
337.   RIYank
331 Molina's probably the best BUC in baseball. Think how Sox fans feel with their crappy BUC (who they picked up after dumping their older crappy BUC). Ave, Cashman!
2008-04-11 20:01:43
338.   tommyl
This Wang kid, wasn't he offered up in that Santana deal?

That was one hell of a dominant performance. 93 pitches, 61 strikes. Only 3 Ks, but that included Manny and Papi. Offense not steamrolling yet, but certainly showing some signs of life. I keep thinking A-Rod is starting slow, then I look up, see him batting over .300 with 2 HRs already. Last year spoiled me a bit I guess.

All in all, I have a smile on my face.

2008-04-11 20:02:58
339.   RIYank
(a) No, because Molina will hit a lot worse than our DH this year. But for fifty games, okay. We want Jorgie in prime condition for October.
(b) Yes, on pure baseball grounds. But no way in real life, because of clubhouse and because Girardi doesn't have the capital to pull it off.
2008-04-11 20:03:03
340.   Shaun P
335 For as long as Posada's shoulder is bothering him, yes on a). But when he can catch again, he should. As much as we all love Molina right now, he's very likely to not keep hitting as well as he has.

A thousand times no on b). Giambi will eventually come around. Even Ozzie Smith's glove at SS wouldn't justify sitting Giambi/Matsui (assuming Damon starts most of the time in LF).

2008-04-11 20:03:08
341.   weeping for brunnhilde
"I'm moving the hitters' feet."--Chien on what he's doing differently.
2008-04-11 20:04:24
342.   tommyl
335 Way to early to think that at all. Molina may be the best BUC in baseball, but he's not going to keep hitting doubles like this. Same goes for the AG, if you look at his AAA and minor performance overall, he's really not that much of a hitter. I'd actually prefer he get sent back down and Duncan called back up.

11 games in, 6-5 and I really like Girardi so far.

2008-04-11 20:04:51
343.   RIYank
341 And, uh, what does that mean?
2008-04-11 20:06:21
344.   weeping for brunnhilde
343 I think he's saying he's pitching inside more, moving them off the plate.
2008-04-11 20:06:43
345.   RIYank
340 I dunno, Shaun. With AG at SS you might save 25 runs. With Jeter at 1st instead of Giambi, you could save another 15. Will Giambi be good for 40 runs over AG at the plate?
2008-04-11 20:07:17
346.   RIYank
344 Ah! Well, that's a good thing.
2008-04-11 20:09:04
347.   Indiana Jon
You guys must have been some of the happiest fans on the planet the day Joe Torre left town.
2008-04-11 20:10:10
348.   weeping for brunnhilde
347 Would you care to elaborate?
2008-04-11 20:10:12
349.   Bagel Boy
335 To answer my own question, you have go Jeter to 1B and Gonzo to SS. Too bad it won't happen until next year.

339 Not yet. Cashman will back him too. They both know the defense suffers. With Giambi gone next year, it's Jeter.

341 He threw 95 at Manny's hands.

2008-04-11 20:11:08
350.   RIYank
Are you dropping in from Dodger Thoughts, Indi-Jon?

Many of us were kind of attached to the guy, sentimentally speaking. But I'd say now we're all pretty pleased about it.

Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2008-04-11 20:13:19
351.   Bagel Boy
347 I was! He had worn out his welcome.
2008-04-11 20:24:25
352.   Indiana Jon
348 I'm a Dodger fan and Matt Kemp is the best hitter on the team. Is that enough elaboration?
2008-04-11 20:26:13
353.   Indiana Jon
350 I can understand the sentimental thing from our days with Tommy. I sure do wish the Dodgers would have beat you guys to Girardi though.
2008-04-11 20:26:31
354.   weeping for brunnhilde
352 Godspeed to you!


2008-04-11 20:27:46
355.   weeping for brunnhilde
353 I don't miss Joe, I'm very happy with Girardi. I appreciate all Joe I did for us, but it was time.

Good luck with him.

2008-04-11 20:37:58
356.   Shaun P
345 Are you sure about that? Admittedly it may not be the most accurate defensive stat, but I'll use it for my example because its expressed in runs.

Clay Davenport's Fielding Runs Above Average/Replacement (FRAA/FRAR) had Jeter at -3/18 last year. To save an additional 25 runs, AG would have to post 22/43 in FRAA/FRAR. Those are numbers Adam Everett did not reach at his peak. In fact, that's basically slightly worse than a typical Ozzie Smith season with the glove. Let's say AG saves 15 runs over Jeter at SS; that seems more reasonable.

We know AG can't hit much (weighted mean PECOTA VORP projection: 3.2 in 549 PA).

Let's say Jeter is 15 runs better than Giambi at 1B. 15+15+3.2 = 33.2 runs

Giambi at 1B could provide that many runs on offense alone (he'd have to have a VORP of 33.2). (And, at his worst with the glove at 1B in NY, Giambi had a FRAA/FRAR of -5/-1; those aren't horrible numbers.) Further, assuming that Damon is the regular LF, that also means you can't have Giambi and Matsui in the lineup in the same time (without shifting half the lineup around). So, to play Giambi at DH, you have sit someone else who is likely to produce much better than AG with the bat - either Matsui, Melky, or Abreu.

So no, in total, I do not think AG at SS and Jeter at 1B contributes more runs to the Yanks than Jeter at SS and Giambi at 1B. I won't even get into the "Giambi hits a ton better when he plays the field" variable.

2008-04-11 20:47:50
357.   Shaun P
356 And, Jeter saving 15 runs over Giambi at 1B might be too much as well. Giambi posted a -1/0 last year, but played only 18 games at 1B. So I'll use his numbers from 2006: -5/-1. 15 runs better would be 10/14.

In comparison, Pujols (perhaps the best defensive 1B in baseball) was 10/18 in '07, while Derrek Lee was 6/15. Jeter has never played even a PA at 1B in his professional career. Something tells me he will not move to 1B and become the greatest fielder right away. So let's revise that "15 runs saved over Giambi" down to more like 7. Even that might be too much.

Can Giambi alone amass a VORP of 27.3 (15+7+3.2+2, the +2 to offset a -2 with his glovework at 1B)? I say yes. Factor in the "if you play Giambi at DH, another good hitter has to sit", and it becomes more certain.

2008-04-11 20:53:56
358.   Shaun P
352 Let me take a wild-ass guess. The Dodgers are facing Peavy tonight, the reigning NL Cy Young winner, and so (of course) Pierre (the proven veteran) is playing instead of Kemp (the untested kid).
2008-04-11 21:09:21
359.   tommyl
358 ding ding ding
2008-04-11 21:10:11
360.   Andre
why would anyone waste jeter's strong arm and speed at 1st base? Only logical place to put him is outfield. I think his range would be fine in the OF because he'd have some time to react. That would also allow them to shed 1 of their 3 aging OF's next year (should be Damon since Mats is still the better bat)
2008-04-11 21:10:39
361.   tommyl
358 To make it better, Pierre is 2 for 2, with a SB. That guarantees at least another week in the starting lineup. Juan Pierre, the Bernie Williams of Los Angeles.
2008-04-11 21:11:08
362.   tommyl
361 I take that back, Bernie was once a very good baseball player. Juan Pierre has sucked every year.
2008-04-11 21:14:12
363.   tommyl
360 Except that the one position the Yankees have prospects in the high minors in is outfielders. You've got Gardner, Ajax and Tabata. Gardner is at AAA (though likely not a starter in the majors), Ajax and Tabata are in Trenton right now. In a year or two you could have a Tabata, Melky, Ajax outfield with Gardner as the 4th OF. At that point in their careers, I'd argue that those four are likely to be better OFs than Jeter, so why move him there?

Oddly enough, the natural place to move him would be 3B, since he has such a strong arm and decent range moving to his right. Somehow I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon though. If he hits, he is worth it at SS. If he starts to decline, it becomes a tricky dilemma.

2008-04-11 21:23:12
364.   Mattpat11
A preview of the rest of the series

2008-04-11 21:26:49
365.   rilkefan
363 When this came up last, it was pointed out that Jeter's slow first step makes him less than ideal for a 3rd baseman.
2008-04-11 21:38:21
366.   monkeypants
363 A difficult dilemma for sure, since if he declines with the bat he is unlikely to hit his position at 1B.

I do think that you exaggerate the danger of Jeter and Tabata and Co. competing for OF spots any time soon. Tabata is only 18 or so--he doesn't really project as a full time OF at MLB for a couple of years. By that time Damon and Abreu are gone, and Matsui restricted to DH/BUOF. Have either Jackson or Tabata played much above high-A level?

Gardner is probably not going to hit that much, certainly not enough to carry him at LF or RF.

IF Jeter were to move, the OF (LF) probably makes more sense, and there would be a window of a couple of years before the hard decisions would have to be made.

In any case, if he continues to hit, it's probably just as well to leave him at SS, despite the often ugly results with the glove.

2008-04-11 21:43:44
367.   Bagel Boy
366 Sorry, but just as it was a fond memory that managers can manage a bench, so it is when the shortstop makes plays toward second.

360 I agree with that too. If he's not moved next year, LF in 2009 makes alot of sense especially because he won't be very productive for a 1B 366 .

2008-04-11 21:49:41
368.   tommyl
365 Yeah, I think I was actually the one who made that point too :). Still, he can't play second, so its first or third.
2008-04-11 21:53:26
369.   tommyl
366 monkey, I was thinking a year or more likely two down the line. Ajax and Tabata are both at AA right now, and hitting well. If they make the jump during the year to AAA they could be ready to contribute as early as 2009. I do think 2010 or so is a bit more realistic for them, perhaps a cup of coffee in 2009. Still, I think Jeter can hold down SS this and next year, at least as well as he's done up to this point. In addition, once you move Jeter, I don't think they'd move him again a year or so later. So if you move him to the OF, he will at some point be blocking one or more of the prospects we have.
2008-04-11 21:58:58
370.   tommyl
Jeter's career rates are .317/.388/.462 . I don't know how to look up what the average 1B hit last year, but those are pretty good numbers. Not Pujols, but I can't imagine he's so far below average for 1B.

Aside, does anyone know how to look up average rates for position and league?

2008-04-11 21:59:37
371.   tommyl
Hey, guess who's pitching for LA right now? I give you one guess!
2008-04-11 22:00:57
372.   tommyl
366 Derek Jeter, the best UIF who ever lived?
2008-04-11 22:12:32
373.   monkeypants
{370] Look at the splits on Last MLB 1B batted OPS .821, but SS hit .738. So if Jeter maintained his career aves for the next few years, he might hit as a slightly better than average !B. But he would also hit a hell of a lot better than the average SS. It seems to me that you lose more relative advantage moving him to 1B, despite his poor range at SS. For what it's worth, LF hit .800 OPS; if Jeter could field the position he would be a relatively better LF than !B.

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