Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
Observations From Cooperstown--A Mixed Bag
2007-12-07 05:23
by Bruce Markusen
Note: The Bronx Banter blog has moved to

The lifeless winter meetings came to an end, the Veterans Committee weighed in, and the city of Cincinnati lost an icon. Here’s a view on those three topics from cold and snowy Cooperstown.

Now that the pursuits of Johan Santana and Dan Haren seem to have concluded, it’s time for the Yankees to concentrate their efforts on other postseason goals. (By the way, the winter meetings have become such a dud that baseball needs to bring back a trading deadline for the final day of the meetings; that way, someone will feel compelled to make a deal.) Principally, the Yankees need to fortify their bullpen, bolster their right-handed hitting, and possibly consider acquiring an innings-eating veteran for the back of the rotation.

Toward that first goal, I love the Yankees’ acquisition of Jonathan "Don’t Call Me Jessica" Albaladejo from the Nationals. In picking up Albaladejo for Tyler Clippard, who needs another pitch to succeed at the major league level, Brian Cashman pulled off a veritable steal. Albaladejo pitched lights out for the Nats during the final month of the season, overpowering hitters with a mid-90s fastball and surprisingly good control. There’s only one question about Albaladejo—his weight. Listed at 250 pounds (and he might weigh closer to 260), he needs to keep himself from enrolling in the Wilbur Wood Reform School for Eating. In the short term, Albaladejo could become the new Charlie Kerfeld. Let’s just hope he can avoid the boxes of Jell-0 and the arm problems that short-circuited Kerfeld’s career.

While they have a full cache of eligible right-handed relievers, the Yankees are badly lacking in bullpen southpaws. Ron Villone won’t be re-signed, Sean Henn is not the answer, and Kei Igawa looks like a long man at best. The Yankees have approached the Pirates about Damaso Marte (their first choice) or John Grabow (the backup plan). I could see the Yankees giving up a B-level prospect for the soon-to-be-33-year-old Marte, who struck out 51 batters in 45 innings last season. Last season, there was talk of the Yankees sending Kevin Thompson to the Pirates for Marte, but Thompson is now on the Pirates’ roster as a backup outfielder. So how about Chase Wright or Jeff Marquez for the veteran lefty?

In terms of right-handed hitting, I’ve heard very little talk about the Yankees pursuing another veteran bat. That would be a mistake, given how feeble the Yankees looked against quality left-handers last year. Even with Alex Rodriguez and Jorge Posada back in the fold, the Yankees could use a strong right-handed platoon player. Shelley Duncan might be the answer, but he struggled toward the tail end of 2007. Then there’s Mark Loretta, but he’s only valuable in terms of on-base percentage, with no power whatsoever. How about Kevin Millar, who hit 17 home runs and drew 76 walks? If he’s willing to accept a role as a platoon first baseman-DH and emergency outfielder, he might be a suitable alternative.

Finally, there’s the issue of starting pitching. With Joba Chamberlain, Phil Hughes, and Ian Kennedy in the projected rotation, the Yankees can’t expect any of the young right-handers to log 200 innings. If you subtract one of the "Big Three" and replace him with Mike Mussina, you’re basically dealing with a six-inning pitcher. Here’s where a durable veteran could come in handy. On the free agent front, there’s Jon "Big Daddy" Lieber, who happens to be a close friend of Joe Girardi. And on the trade block, there’s talk of the Giants’ Noah Lowry (along with Jonathan Sanchez) coming over as part of a deal for Hideki Matsui. Though not a workhorse, Lowry has averaged 173 innings over the last three seasons. He’s also a left-hander, always a nice commodity at Yankee Stadium…

The Hall of Fame is taking a major public relations hit in the aftermath of Monday’s news that the Veterans Committee had elected Bowie Kuhn but somehow had bypassed Marvin Miller yet again. Like him or not (and I haven’t always cared for Miller’s arrogant personality), Miller registered a huge impact on baseball’s financial landscape throughout the 1970s and early eighties. Without Miller, arbitration and free agency would not have come into play as quickly as they did, and perhaps not at all. Today’s game is financially healthy, probably better than ever—and Miller deserves some indirect credit for that, too. Hall of Famer? How can you have a Hall of Fame without a pioneer of Miller’s stature? There’s no question that Miller should be chosen. But with only two former players on the committee (Monte Irvin and Harmon Killebrew), Miller’s fate was sealed before a formal vote even took place.

As for Kuhn, I have to confess that I liked him on a personal level. Having talked to him informally on several occasions and having interviewed him as part of a live program at the Hall of Fame, Kuhn struck me as personable, thoughtful, and well intended. It’s also an exaggeration to call him the worst Hall of Fame selection of all-time, not when you have players like Rick Ferrell and Ray Schalk and executives like Morgan Bulkeley and Tom Yawkey occupying places in Cooperstown. (Perhaps the election of Kuhn at the same time that Miller was rejected serves to underscore the situation, making the anti-Kuhn lobby that much more incensed.) Still, Kuhn suffered too many losses at the hands of Miller and mishandled too many other situations, such as his effort to censor Jim Bouton’s Ball Four and his failure to attend Hank Aaron’s record-breaking home run. In light of those shortcomings, I would not have voted for Kuhn.

In contrast, the other four selections by the two separate Veterans Committees were on the money. Barney Dreyfuss oversaw a number of successful Pirates teams in the early 1900s while also playing a large role in implementing the first World Series. Walter O’Malley, though still reviled in the borough of Brooklyn, was arguably the game’s most influential owner from the late 1950s through the late 1970s. Managers Billy Southworth and Dick Williams were both criminally underrated, Williams because of his prickly personality and Southworth because most of his success came during the World War II era. Each man won four pennants and two World Championships; given their overall winning percentages, those are Hall of Fame markers.

So with four out of five correct, along with two bad omissions in Miller and Doug Harvey, the Veterans Committee did some passable work, certainly an improvement over the blank ballots of recent years. The Hall of Fame now needs to balance the composition of the Veterans Committee, which is too heavily slanted toward management and against the union. Ultimately, the committee charged with the directive of electing executives should feature a balance between retired players, former or current executives, and members of the media. Four apiece from each category would be ideal. That way, Miller would have a fighting chance…

I met Joe Nuxhall, who died last month at the age of 79, just one time. It happened several years ago in spring training, which I used to attend as part of my duties at the Hall of Fame. On a sunny March morning, I sat down to interview Nuxhall and Marty Brennaman at the Reds’ spring site in Sarasota. Both men could not have been nicer, absolute gentlemen, both on and off camera. I talked with Brennaman about his love of the defunct ABA (American Basketball Association) and with Nuxhall about baseball in general. Based on our short conversation, I learned at least a little bit why Nuxhall was so beloved in Cincinnati.

Nationally, Nuxhall was best known for being the youngest major leaguer of the 20th century, pitching in a game in 1944 at the age of 15. Yet, there was much more to his story. We tend to forget that after Nuxhall struggled so badly in his wartime debut, he returned to high school and then continued a long baseball apprenticeship in the minor leagues before making it back to the Reds, seven years after his debut, in 1951. Nuxhall would last 16 seasons in the major leagues, establishing himself as a very good left-handed pitcher in the mid-1950s. A two-time All-Star, Nuxhall led the National League in shutouts in 1955. Except for brief stints with the Kansas City A’s and Los Angeles Angels, Nuxhall remained with Cincinnati through the 1966 season, when he retired with 135 wins and over 1,300 strikeouts. The following spring, he returned to the Reds as a broadcaster, continuing what would become a 63-year association with the franchise.

Given such longevity, along with his easy-going personality and generous nature, it’s not hard to see why Nuxhall became one of the city’s most cherished icons.


Bruce Markusen writes "Cooperstown Confidential" for He can be reached via e-mail at

Comments (136)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-12-07 06:02:30
1.   Mattpat11
Lowry's leftiness doesn't make him appealing to me. And while he has averaged 173 innings over the last three years, he has averaged 157 over the last two, while allowing 475 baserunners in 313.3 IP. He's not worth acquiring and nowhere near good enough to trade Hideki Matsui.
2007-12-07 06:13:10
2.   williamnyy23
1 It was the Giants who called the Yankees. I don't think Cashman is foolish enough to accept Lowry as the centerpiece of anydeal. I'm sure the name surfaced because a sportswriter looked at his 14 wins and equated that with him being an up and coming pitcher.

"Jeff Marquez for the veteran lefty"
Marquez for Marte? If the Yankees were hesitant to include him in the Santana deal, they'd better not trade him for Marte.

I like the Millar idea, if, the Yankees are confident in or committed to Duncan.

2007-12-07 06:18:02
3.   Mattpat11
And for the record, watching Phil Hughes on Yankees Magazine on the YES Network has convinced me that we need to keep him forever. Any man that goes over to Joba Chamberlain's house when he's not home so he can play video games and ping pong is a hero in my book.
2007-12-07 06:20:50
4.   williamnyy23
3 He goes to Joba's house when he's not home? Does he break in? :)
2007-12-07 06:22:09
5.   Mattpat11
4 That's what he said

"He's not home right now. We sort of broke in"

2007-12-07 06:32:10
6.   williamnyy23
5 Well, Joba is at Penn Station this morning helping out an ESPN radio charity drive, so I guess Phil is over at his house now.
2007-12-07 06:33:37
7.   Mattpat11
6 Hopefully without a camera crew. It was kind of funny to watch him bite his tongue when you knew he wanted to curse.
2007-12-07 06:38:14
8.   cercle
If the Yankees could pick up Jonathan Sanchez as part of a Matsui-Lowry trade it would be a good deal. Not sure if he profiles better as a reliever or a starter, but I could see him in Ramiro Mendoza type role next year. Lowry, in turn, could most likely be flipped back to an NL club that needs starters (Philly? Arizona? Hell, maybe Cash could get Omar to pull one of his boneheaded moves to get him). If they could then go and land Marte then Mo-Marte-Sanchez would be a good start to the pen.

As long as trading Matsui in order to free up money to go trade Hughes for Santana isn't the plan (Keep Phil!) then I'm OK with it.

2007-12-07 06:41:26
9.   Yankee Fan In Boston
0 it looks like loretta might be staying with the astros.

and cashman has discussed signing latroy hawkins to a one year deal worth between $3M and $3.5M.

2007-12-07 06:41:31
10.   Mattpat11
8 I think I'd rip all my hair out watching Sanchez walk the ballpark. And I'd be worried about being unable to flip Lowry.
2007-12-07 06:42:07
11.   Mattpat11
9 Why?
2007-12-07 06:42:25
12.   Yankee Fan In Boston
oh... here's the hawkins link i forgot to put inside 9 :

2007-12-07 06:43:56
13.   Yankee Fan In Boston
11 i haven't the foggiest idea... unless that is an attempt at gaining leverage in another deal. who knows?
2007-12-07 06:48:05
14.   cercle
Control's been an issue for Sanchez. Agreed. He is only 25, though, and definitely has considerable upside. I can't imagine they'd have any trouble shipping Lowry off somewhere. The guy has value in the NL and he's cheap.
2007-12-07 06:48:14
15.   JL25and3
Noah Lowry has a medical exception to the amphetamine rule. He could supply greenies to the clubhouse - not to mention giving everyone the name of a friendly psychiatrist.
2007-12-07 06:48:37
16.   williamnyy23
8 Sanchez (nice arm but will be 25 with little experience) doesn't justify trading a very productive left handed bat. I also don't believe the reports that the Matsui deal is designed to clear salary for Santana. The Yankees might be more salary consciousness, but I doubt they'd dump Matsui to save $13mn (which for an OF'er as productive as Matsui is very reasonable), especially when next year Abreu will be a free agent and Giambi will be gone.
2007-12-07 06:48:39
17.   bp1
1 Matsui is more to the Yankees than a left fielder. He is still HUGE in Japan, so I don't think Cash will give him away for a bag of balls like they did with Sheff. I don't think it will be a salary dump. If Cash trades Matsui, he is going to demand plenty of talent in return.

Matsui .855 OPS. Abreu .814 OPS.

Cash just gave Abreu $16mil for 2008, so I don't think he's going to give Matsui away for nothing.

Or at least I hope not.

2007-12-07 06:52:30
18.   JL25and3
17 Matsui's stature in Japan is also a reason he'd be unlikely to waive his NTC.
2007-12-07 06:52:36
19.   Shaun P
9 It would be a waste - especially because he always pitches so poorly against the Yanks. Let someone else sign him.
2007-12-07 06:57:38
20.   Sliced Bread
Thanks for the mixed bag of goodies, Bruce.
"Don't Call Me Jessica" Albaladejo. That's rich.

I'd do either of the Marte trades you presented in a heartbeat. Not knowing much about Marquez I'm hesitant to say I'd give both him and Wright for Marte, but I might.
A hard-throwing lefty, one that the club knows well, might well be worth a pair of B prospects.

2007-12-07 06:59:40
21.   Mattpat11
14 There's any number of men that I assumed would have been easy to dump on someone that stayed for excruciatingly long periods of time because we were trying to pull one over on another team. Er, I mean "get equal value"
2007-12-07 07:14:03
22.   ny2ca2dc
"Don't Call Me Jessica" Albaladejo, nice one. I also love the trade - not a heist in any sense, but we've got to get value out of this huge number of B- RHP prospects in the Clippard/Desalvo/White mold, lest they turn into the next set of Rasner/Karstens (little upside left hence little value). Trading them for upside relievers is something I've advocated & applaud.

20 I wouldn't trade Wright AND Marquez. I'd rather keep Marques, actually. Marte is 33, no? Maybe Desalvo & White would get it done.

2007-12-07 07:15:13
23.   Mattpat11
22 I'd say DeSalvo hit that point already.
2007-12-07 07:15:58
24.   Yankee Fan In Boston
0 here's a list of some odd baseball contract clauses, beginning with the aforementioned charlie kerfeld and his jello.

2007-12-07 07:27:11
25.   Shaun P
What's sad is that, the Yanks had Marte, but traded him to Pittsburgh to get Enrique Wilson back in mid-2001. Sigh. Since 2001, except for one hiccup with the White Sox (in 2005), Marte has been very good.

I would not give up Marquez, because we haven't seen what he can do yet, or Wright, who is the only lefty starter of note in the system. I would gladly give up DeSalvo or Karstens, because their ceilings are pretty clear. But isn't Pittsburgh swimming in young pitchers? Why would they need more?

2007-12-07 07:27:15
26.   Levy2020
I think the issue is "Matsui plus WHAT = Cain or Lincecum?"

I mean I'd do something like Matsui and Cox and Melancon, right? Matsui and Kennedy?

2007-12-07 07:29:35
27.   Simone
I still can't believe the Veteran's Committee voted for Kuhn who was distasteful as commissioner and passed over Marvin Miller. They should be embarrassed, but probably are not. The players owe Miller so much. If it was up to the owners, they would still be buying their own uniforms. Incredible. What BS.
2007-12-07 07:38:41
28.   Sliced Bread
[22 25] Yeah, I'd like to see Marquez, too. The point is Marte is worth sacrificing some potential for,(especially in this market) even at his age.

Un-do the Marte mistake, Cash! Dude can still chuck it.

2007-12-07 07:41:45
29.   Shaun P
26 Yes, I would do Matsui and IPK for Lincecum in a flash.

Cain worries me. He's been worked pretty hard by the Giants. I know he went over 120 pitches a few times the last two years, with a max of 132 in one start in 2006. That is horrible for a 21 year old.

Whatever you think of BP's pitcher abuse points, he's been 7th and 8th the last two years in terms of stress (points/number of pitches thrown). Maybe he can deal with that kind of workload. I'm not sure I'd want to chance it.

2007-12-07 07:54:53
30.   monkeypants
Wow, people sure get worked up over what silly choices the veterans committee make. More seriously, as for Miller v. Kuhn, to be far to the VC, commissioners have long been considered "part of the game", and there are long standing precedents for commissioners being selected to the HOF. However, Miller was basically a glorified union boss. There isn't really a precedent for such an individual's inclusion into the hall. I'm not saying he does or does not belong, only that the very traditional and conservative HOF (the most conservative HOF of the most conservative north american sport) is still trying to sort out who belongs in and why, just like they are with DHs and closers and longtime 'contributors to the game' whose achievements do not easily fit prior models. But fear not, someday Miller and Scott Boras will be in the HOF, I suspect.
2007-12-07 07:55:48
31.   cercle
Pittsburgh has a lot of young starters. They'd most likely be looking for position players. Might be tough for us to match up with them. Maybe they'd be interested in Gonzalez? It would be a steal for NY if they were. Betemit?

21 Lowry, while not fit to pitch against AL lineups, had an ERA+ of 113 last year (95 in '06 and 113 in '05) and is 27 years old. Some NL club would definitely be interested. Cashman would need to determine just how interested before dealing for him, though.

2007-12-07 08:04:57
32.   williamnyy23
31 If Cashman could trick an NL team into taking Lowry that's fine, but why can't the Giants do that too if there's such a big market for him in the NL? Until the third part of that deal materializes, you can't connect the dots, so it stands that Lowry for Matsui, as a separate entity, would make no sense.
2007-12-07 08:16:06
33.   standuptriple
29 I'd love to see either Cain or Lincecum in pinstripes. Living in the Bay Area, I've seen a lot of starts from both. Cain has a grinder-type quality to him that keeps the pitiful giants (used little "g" on purpose) offsense in games they have no business being in. I think last year he lost more 1 run ballgames (usually given up by the bullpen) than anybody I can remember in a while. Lincecum has fantastic life to his pitches and the late movement and his deceptively small frame are nice compliments to his array of pitches. His smaller size is the reason teams let him slide in the draft, but I think both could be huge additions to the Yanks. That being said, Matsui is an important cog in the offense. I don't see any other team needing him as much as the Giants though, so if they can make one of those work I'd be happy. I do not want them to make a move for Lowry at all. He's mediocre and has benefitted from pitching in A) that home park B) in a weak hitting division with 2 other notoriously storng pitchers parks C) and it's the NL.
2007-12-07 08:18:02
34.   Levy2020
Does anyone understand the "minor league" phase of the Rule 5 draft? Are the same players available? But they don't have to be on the 25 man? (Why don't teams pick more heavily then.)
2007-12-07 08:19:39
35.   Mattpat11
32 Further, I'm getting sick of trying to trick people. I don't think the organization is nearly as good at tricking everyone as they seem to think they are. We wouldn't trade Pavano until it was too late because we wanted to trick the other teams into thinking he was worth the deal. We're still stuck with Farnsworth because we can't trick anyone into thinking he's worth a damn. We were upset when the Padres offered nothing of value for the nothing of value Kei Igawa, so we're going to wait and see if we can trick someone else.

I have this awful feeling that if the team gets Lowry and can't fleece some other team in a trade, they'll decide to trot him out there in hopes that he becomes [Not Noah Lowry] and we can trick someone into taking him.

2007-12-07 08:21:20
36.   Shaun P
31 As I think Mattpat said yesterday, I would not want to take a chance on being able to feist Lowry on some other NL team. Because if the Yanks don't, they are stuck with him.
2007-12-07 08:26:04
37.   Shaun P

It doesn't get into a lot of detail, but its a start. I'm still sure who qualifies for the AA and A reserve lists though, but it seems to not include guys who were on the AAA reserve lists.

2007-12-07 08:33:34
38.   williamnyy23
34 Basically, the structure is a hierarchy with decreasing requirements as you go down the ladder. Here is a summary:

Rule V segments:

Major League – All eligible players may be selected for a price of 50K. If the selected player doesn't remain on the 25-man, he must be offered back to the original team.

AAA – Players on the AAA roster (38 man max) are removed from the pool, and only players on AA rosters who are eligible for selection in the Rule 5 Draft can be selected for a price of $12K. There are no roster requirements.

AA - Players on the AA roster (37 man max) are removed from the pool, and only players on A rosters (35 man max)who are eligible for selection in the Rule 5 Draft can be selected for a price of $4K. There are no roster requirements.

2007-12-07 08:34:00
39.   RIYank
This is somewhat tangential to the current topics, but I thought I'd mention it. I keep reading that the Giants will trade Lincecum because they need hitting more than they need pitching. And you hear this kind of thing all the time. But does it really make any sense?
If you trade away pitching and thereby let your opponents score an extra forty runs next year, but you add a hitter who adds forty runs next year, haven't you broken even? What difference does it make whether you are already a good run-producing team or not? (And conversely for a good hitting team that 'needs pitching'.)

One possibility: if your team and system is loaded with pitching, you can replace the guy you trade away with a guy who's almost as good. Whereas the good hitter you get might be a whole lot better than the guy he replaces. If this is the explanation, why don't people just say that??

2007-12-07 08:36:05
40.   cercle
32 Well, I don't really think Cashman would be tricking anybody. It's not like Lowry sucks. I doubt there's "such a big market for him", but he'd certainly be useful to a number of teams. Is a good relief pitcher and a 2nd tier prospect out of the question for him? I wouldn't think so. And if you can get that for him plus somebody else from the Giants then you've strengthened the weakest part of the club.

I guess I just don't view Matsui as being that valuable. He's going to be 34, is owed 26 million over the next 2 years (not awful, but not great), and is an .850 ops DH (or bad defensive LFer)

Of course, Matsui most likely won't waive his NTC anyway, so none this of matters.

2007-12-07 08:53:33
41.   ms october
39 Now that would just be far too direct :}
Some weaknesses I understand a little better than others. Most teams are chasing middle relief. But how many years have we been hearing that the Angels need a "bat to protect Vlad" - and they sign two cfs two years in a row that do not qualify as protection for Vlad.
Or the Padres and their need for a hitter.

As for Matsui and the Giants, hopefully Cashman can utilize the fact that the Giants supposedly called him about Matsui and add something else of value to get Lincecum or Cain.
Also, I have read Matsui would waive his NTC - and though I have not spoken to either, I think both Matsui and Giambi (not that anyone wants him at this point) would waive their NTC for the opportunity to be more full time players.
Supposedly the Padres have made an offer to Fukudome, but I wonder if the Yanks do trade Matsui if they would go after Fukudome for the full replacement of Matsui.

2007-12-07 08:55:15
42.   Raf
35 That may be the case, but I'd have to say the Wright-Britton & Johnson-Ohlendorf/Gonzalez/Vizcaino deals are working out so far...

I think Pavano hasn't been dealt because other teams were offering crap AND the Yanks would have to pick up salary. If that was the case, what's the point of moving him?

2007-12-07 09:15:06
43.   JL25and3
25 I wouldn't consider Chase Wright a "lefty starter of note." If you can't trade Chase Wright, there isn't much of anyone you can trade. (Matt DeSalvo ain't getting you anything.)
2007-12-07 09:15:46
44.   williamnyy23
40 Matsui's OPS+ was 123 last season. His VORP was 32.4 (66 in all of baseball). I think you are being hard on Matsui, who when healthy is a very productive hitter. Considering the climate of the current market, his $13mn is very reasonable.
2007-12-07 09:20:05
45.   Mattpat11
42 I don't see how you could say either way on the Wright trade. We refused to use Britton for whatever reason.

And unless Ohlendorf becomes something, we got a no hit shortstop and a pair of middle relievers.

And I would have gladly paid for Carl Pavano to hurt another team. If we hadn't waited a year and a half for him to "improve his value" we could have gotten something of value by accident. Now we'll get nothing.

2007-12-07 09:24:07
46.   JL25and3
41 Right now, Giambi and Matsui look like full-time players in NY, or awfully close to it.
2007-12-07 09:24:17
47.   mehmattski
45 Three middle relievers and a slick-fielding shortstop is better than having to whine about RJ and Jaret Wright last year, right? I mean, there's no doubt that they would have been the same or worse than all the kids that were trot out during the dark days of May.
2007-12-07 09:34:33
48.   Mattpat11
47 I happen to think Randy Johnson is a better pitcher than Matt DeSalvo. But that's besides the point. Don't make that trade and then tell me we can't trade Carl Pavano or Kei Igawa or Kyle Farnsworth for crap.
2007-12-07 09:46:35
49.   williamnyy23
45 Simply by saving $13mn, the RJ trade was very good, especially if you believe Cashman's new budget conscious philosophy.

As for Wright, I think addition by subtraction makes that deal a good one too. Had he stayed, the Yankees might have been tempted to give him a start.

2007-12-07 09:48:44
50.   ms october
46 yes, right now i agree, but i don't expect to see giambi at 1b for too long (i could be wrong - he could stay healthy and be effective) but assuming he can't play 1b - we are back to a logjam at dh - with matsui and giambi and perhaps wanting to get shelley (if his health is okay) some abs against lefties- and if posada needs abs there as well, so i'm not sure how it will work out and if they both end up as essentially full-time players.

what do people think about if matsui is moved how that would impact deals involving melky?
that is, if matsui is moved does that preclude melky from being moved?

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-12-07 09:49:25
51.   Mattpat11
49 Kei Igawa. No, I don't believe it.

Valid point on Wright. I wanted him gone as well.

2007-12-07 09:55:38
52.   williamnyy23
48 You have a good point on Pavano, but there is no reason to give away Igawa when you can still stash him in the minor leagues.

As for Farns, as bad as he is, he wasn't the worst reliever on the team. Keep in mind that the Yankee bullpen employed the likes of Colter Bean, Jim Brower and Sean Henn. I'd love to ship Farns anywhere now that Girardi is more likely to use a younger arm, but Torre was going to gravitate toward the veterans anway, so that either meant someone would be overused or a guy like Brower would have had an expanded role.

2007-12-07 09:58:40
53.   williamnyy23
51 Kei Igawa might be pasrt of the reason for that new philosophy.
2007-12-07 10:01:18
54.   standuptriple
I'd be shocked if teams weren't at least kicking the tires on Farns these days. Would anybody be really opposed to including him in the Matsui deal to get Cain?
2007-12-07 10:10:09
55.   williamnyy23
54 I wonder if the Twins would accept Cain as a replacement for Hughes in the Santana deal?
2007-12-07 10:10:30
56.   Shaun P
43 By "lefty starter of note", I meant "the only lefty pitching prospect in the system anyone has ever heard of." I don't know if he's good or not, but when you say "pitching prospect" and "lefty", many eyebrows go up. To me, that means you don't trade him for a 33-year-old middle reliever. You hold onto him until he shows he's only worth a 33-year-old MR, or you can include him for something better.

54 And thus, I would gladly approach the Giants with a Lincecum and ______ for Matsui, IPK, Farns, and Wright deal.

2007-12-07 10:12:21
57.   Mattpat11
52 I think they'll either keep Igawa in the majors or bring him up with regularity to try and "get something out of him"

And I don't think you can use raw stats to evaluate Farnsworth's utter uselessness. His entrenchment as the setup man (and I don't think that will leave with Torre) and the Farnsworth Rules need to be considered.

2007-12-07 10:13:44
58.   Mattpat11
53 They traded Johnson and signed Igawa within two weeks of each other
2007-12-07 10:16:18
59.   Sliced Bread
54 Regardless of the other pieces in a potential trade, a Farnswacker recipient would probably want a big bag of money attached to his luggage -- though Cashman would likely dip into his own savings account to accomodate that request.
2007-12-07 10:17:17
60.   Mattpat11
54 I'd rather pay Worthless to hurt someone else than us.
2007-12-07 10:17:37
61.   Mattpat11
60 That should be 59
2007-12-07 10:18:18
62.   cercle
44 I don't mean to dog Matsui. I'm just concerned about the pen and think if we could get a couple of plus arms out there by dealing him it would be good. Really depends on what Lowry would bring back. It may be that there's a better way to go about getting bullpen help, but I think ms october is right that we're going to end up with several guys that have to DH and I actually like Giambi's chances to have a pretty good '08.

50 As long as Rowand is available they would probably still be willing to deal Melky. I'm not personally wild about paying Rowand a bundle, but I think the front office likes him.

2007-12-07 10:18:29
63.   Mattpat11
Andy Phillips refused a Scranton assignment.
2007-12-07 10:26:22
64.   bobtaco
Matsui would be closer to home and we have a huge Japanese population here in SF.

He also used to play for the Giants in Japan, so maybe he would think it is cool to play for the American version.

I would kick in my entire porn collection to give to Matsui if the Yankees could get Lincecum for him.

2007-12-07 10:29:08
65.   Mattpat11
62 Is there some reason to think Sanchez will stop walking 8 million people? I honestly don't know, so its a real question.
2007-12-07 10:30:12
66.   Sliced Bread
64 and even a porno to be named later?
2007-12-07 10:36:12
67.   standuptriple
64 I don't have much, but I'd include mine as well. Tera Patrick makes a strong argument. They are a real mess thanks to McGowan's love affair with Barry's HR record (and selling front row tickets) and their poor draft performance. Do they trade for a reliable bat and some lower lever SP prospects because they aren't sure if they should try and win now (to keep the fans from leaving, which they never will because SFers will show up there to watch the grass grow) or reload for the future? They've made so many poor decisions and are stuck with an againg lineup that they probably need to do a Marlin-esque type deal.
2007-12-07 10:38:23
68.   standuptriple
66 Depending on what he's into I'm sure some "screenings" could be arranged. You all have no idea what goes on in this town.
2007-12-07 10:58:00
69.   williamnyy23
65 I prefer our Sanchez to me crazy, but I think Humberto will play a key role in the Yankee bullpen starting around midseason.
2007-12-07 11:00:06
70.   Sliced Bread
68 meanwhile, at the well-appointed offices of Arn Tellem, and SFX Sports Group...

"Excuse me, Mr. Tellem, I have a "standuptriple" on line 1. He says it's urgent: something about Hideki Matsui, Tera Patrick, and extremely high levels of perversion detected in San Francisco."

Tellem: Put him through immediately.

2007-12-07 11:01:10
71.   cercle
65 I've read that some people think the Giants handling of him has slowed his development - moving him back and forth from starter to reliever to starter to reliever. There's also the old "lefties develop later" adage. Anecdotally, when I've seen him he's never struck me as a guy who had no command of his pitches, but obviously this doesn't jive with the numbers. In short, no real compelling reason. Still, there are plenty of people who are still high on him.

I might actually be more concerned about the jump in HRs last season. Looking at his minor league numbers, it seems like he could get away with the walks because he kept the ball in the park. Gave up the long ball at a disturbing rate last season.

2007-12-07 11:10:53
72.   OldYanksFan
BP puts these pitchers on the top of the heap:
Alan Horne, RHP
Dellin Betances, RHP
Andrew Brackman, RHP
Edwar Ramirez, RHP
Humberto Sanchez, RHP
Jeff Marquez, RHP
Ross Ohlendorf, RHP

Is Horne the only one we haven't seen yet who might pitch for us in 2009?
I don't think Sanchez is ready until mid-season at beat.

From what little I know, these guys are all talented and could be effective and the MLB level. Should anyone be removed from that list? Should anyone else be added to that list?

Daniel McCutchen maybe? How does he rate?
How about Patterson, who is on the 40 man roster?
Mark Melancon? (which team is he on?)

Wright, While, DeSalveo, Karstens, Rasner, Anthony Claggett, Kevin Whelan, Steven Jackson, et al.

As someone above said, we have a boatload of decent pitchers. Are any of these guys trading chips? There must be some teams looking for cheap RPs. Are 3 or 4 of these guys worth a decent MLB RP? A righty bat?

I'm surprised to see that Millar (over the last 3 years) is .060 BETTER against RHP and has TWICE as many HRs against RHP. I like the guy but a .782 OPS should be easy to find and is not much production from 1B/DH.

2007-12-07 11:12:05
73.   yankster
I've long been on the record as not an Arod fan and I doubt that's going to change (though I wish it would). It certainly isn't going to change when articles like this one are being written at the times:
2007-12-07 11:13:13
74.   JL25and3
63 Good for him. If he's ever going to get one more legit chance, it's not going to be with the Yankees.
2007-12-07 11:28:35
75.   bp1
I wish Andy Phillips all the luck in the world. He was snakebit with the Yankees - first his wife was sick and this his mom's accident. It seemed when he got the call-up, something else worked against him.

He seemed like a genuinely great guy, and wish nothing but the very best for him and his family. Here's hoping he learns to lay off those big breaking curveballs somewhere else.

2007-12-07 11:32:46
76.   Sliced Bread
73 When the Times sells its share of the Red Sox I might take their little hatchet job portraying A-Rod as a slumlord seriously.

Did you catch the snide cheapshot against the Yankees in the photo caption?

"Featuring Yankee-esque bunting, the Newport Square, one of the six Tampa, Fla., area apartment complexes owned by Alex Rodriguez."

No other team uses red, white,and blue bunting? I'm certain I've seen it draped around good olde Fenway, where clean, affordable housing is such a priority.

2007-12-07 11:46:56
77.   williamnyy23
76 Agreed...they went on and on about the one complex in Florida, but brushed over the others (where the main complaint was the residents didn't like the $100 late fee for paying their rent late). Also, the article didn't have any documentation of complaints...just residents asking why they should have to pay rent when Arod makes so much money. The article went out of its way to potray Arod as personally involved in suppressing the masses of Tampa...give me a break.
2007-12-07 11:51:10
78.   Rob Middletown CT
Yeah, like, 'cause he's rich and stuff so when you really think about it, like, HE should pay THEM rent! Yeah!

Total hatchet job. Nice to see things don't change...

2007-12-07 11:58:07
79.   Raf
45 At least Britton was available, Wright wasn't. The Yanks picked up his option and moved him for a useful part. That they didn't use it may speak more to Torre, I don't know.

I think the D-Backs took a risk on RJ, given his creaky back. That may be the reason the Yanks didn't get more for him. So far, at the very least, the Yanks got two useful arms for someone who did not want to be here.

They got younger, cheaper, and potentially better. Can't find too much fault with that.

2007-12-07 12:03:30
80.   Raf
76 "Featuring Yankee-esque bunting, the Newport Square, one of the six Tampa, Fla., area apartment complexes owned by Alex Rodriguez."

I see nothing wrong with that statement.

2007-12-07 12:10:05
81.   Yankee Fan In Boston
80 it was obvilously a shot at jeter.

(i kid.)

2007-12-07 12:11:51
82.   Yankee Fan In Boston
81 "obvilously"? yeah, this friday is running a bit long.
2007-12-07 12:19:43
83.   Sliced Bread
80 The bunting is not "Yankee-esque," it's what I'd simply call "bunting" - nor do the Yankees have anything to do with the housing project. I can see no reason to reference the Yankees here other than to take a snide cheapshot at the franchise.

I have no problem with the Times digging into A-Rod's affairs, but there's not even smoke here while they're trying to suggest fire. Hatchet job, right down to the photo caption as I see it.

2007-12-07 12:22:47
84.   Mattpat11
79 If you're going to trade Randy Johnson for little to nothing for the sake of saving money, you can't turn around and break the bank for Kei Igawa.
2007-12-07 12:26:19
85.   Sliced Bread
83 at the risk of belaboring the point:

would the Sox-friendly Times write: "Fenway Park is decked out in Yankee-esque bunting for the playoffs"

No, it would not.

2007-12-07 12:26:36
86.   RIYank
The Yankees aren't even any good at bunting. It's against their philosophy.
2007-12-07 12:34:39
87.   Yankee Fan In Boston
85 genius.
2007-12-07 12:38:50
88.   JL25and3
86 Beat me to that one, RIYank. Well played.

That article was ridiculous. I was especially impressed with the argument that Rodriguez (or his brother-in-law) is a lousy landlord, therefore he doesn't care about winning a championship. QED, right?

2007-12-07 12:46:43
89.   Sliced Bread
86 yes, "Yankee-esque bunting" would be not bunting against a hobbled pitcher on a slick field.
2007-12-07 12:51:39
90.   Raf
84 Money wasn't the sole motivating factor for the trade. RJ's request to be traded to AZ came out of nowhere.

85 No, because it doesn't make any sense. Would they use the term "Fenway-esque" referring to bunting? Had they preceded "Yankee-esque" with "tacky" or "cheap," then I could see having a problem with it.

2007-12-07 13:01:06
91.   Raf
88 Are you referring to "The next 10 years aren't about team championships, but financial benchmarks linked to A-Rod's rate of slugging, with a Monopoly game payout for eclipsing history: pass Barry Bonds, collect $6 million?"
2007-12-07 13:04:01
92.   Mattpat11
90 I just don't understand why we seem to take an "oh, just give us whatever" stand on some players, but others we're willing to wait years for them to "build their trade value" so we can get "equal value"
2007-12-07 13:19:43
93.   Raf
92 It depends on if you take Cashman's words at face value. This is the same guy that told us that Bubba Crosby was going to be the starting CF, and that Scott Proctor was going to be in the rotation.

From what I remember, there wasn't much offered for Pavano (not even a "slop swap"), and the Yanks would've had to pick up his salary. If you're going to do that, may as well keep him in the hopes that he'll turn it around.

2007-12-07 13:35:45
94.   Mattpat11
93 He didn't say that for years. We've been waiting for equal value for Kyle Farnsworth since before the trade deadline 06.

I'll never understand the "may as well keep him" line of thinking. They should have known after 2005 what kind of man they were dealing with when he sat out half a year with an undefined mystery ailment. If my options are pay him to be a pain in the ass and hurt my team or pay him to be someone else's pain in the ass and hurt their team, I pick door number 2.

2007-12-07 13:41:02
95.   JL25and3
91 Yes, along with a couple of other lines like, "...reveals a portrait of Rodriguez as a player about to enter Yankee Take II solely for business obsessive pursuer of cold, hard numbers on and off the bases, with serially disingenuous nods to his ever-challenged image."

Also, why is it that when Derek Jeter contributes $2M to his foundation it's magnanimous, but when Rodriguez gives $3.9M to a scholarship fund, it's a "vanity check?" Because the practice field is named after him? So what?

2007-12-07 13:54:49
96.   wsporter
89 I'm riding the bench today but Slice you you continue to amaze.
2007-12-07 14:05:00
97.   Raf
94 We're only a couple of years removed from the Crosby/Proctor directives; they weren't all that long ago.

WRT Farnsworth & Pavano, there's also the option that you keep them, and try to get something out of them... There's the chance that Farnsworth may harness that 100mph fastball, there's hope that Pavano may be productive. As bad as the pitching has been since 2004, they can't afford to give one away.

95 The NYT isn't the only media outlet that has portrayed Rodriguez as a money hungry ballplayer.

As for the comparision with Jeter, they were comparing how they treated their respective charities.

2007-12-07 14:17:17
98.   Shaun P
97 Now they couldn't pay someone to take Pavano - he's dropped Clifton as his agent and is "progressing slowly in his rehab" - shocking! But your point is true as of last year Spring Training. They did need him, scary as that may be. Now they don't.

Why Krazy Kyle isn't gone yet still perplexes me.

89 Here here! JL is also doing a terrific job.

2007-12-07 14:21:22
99.   Mattpat11
94 And within weeks the Crosby and Proctor matters were resolved. Its been well over a year of waiting for "equal value" to trade Kyle Farnsworth.

And if we're going to keep useless lumps because they could be productive, Why evaluate players at all? Any one can be productive. We should just ignore everyone's history and stats and throw darts at a board.

2007-12-07 14:22:28
100.   yankster
95 It's because the practice field that he named after himself is adjacent to one of his apartment complexes. My impression was that it was reducing the value of his apartments for the field to be dilapidated.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-12-07 14:25:00
101.   Mattpat11
98 I cannot wrap my mind around the fact that its December 7 2007 and

a) Kyle Farnsworth is still on the team.

b) Carl Pavano is still causing this team headaches.

2007-12-07 14:37:53
102.   The Mick 536
Terrific. Lots of info. Had to read it twice. Haven't read the comments, but I am sure that they carry a lot of love.

Not a criticism. Right on Miller. No cred for the Hall without him. Yes, a little rough on the edges. I can relate to that. Met him at the same SABR conference that I met Nuxie at. How lucky for me.

Bowie's career underscored by what he did in his post Commish law firm life. Also, not enough written about how he became Commish.

Need some comments on the A-Rod-SlumLord article in NYT. No (read as insufficient) contributions or distributions (read as pathetic) to his charity! Named the field after himself. Should be dead first. High late fees for the poor who barely have enough to pay the rent. He coudda been a hero. Has a layer of PR people guarding him. Where is Warren, or betta yet, the hated Howie. Is a reservation at Peter Luger's all that is important?

2007-12-07 15:41:33
103.   Bruce Markusen
Thanks, Mick.

Matsui is one of my favorite Yankees, but I think I'd have to pull the trigger if the Giants are offering Lowry and Sanchez. That's two young left-handers (one who is at least a No. 4 starter and the other a reliever with high upside), added to a staff that is way too right-handed, for a 34-year-old player coming off knee surgery.

The Yankees aren't getting Lincecum or Cain for Matsui. Lowry is about as good a veteran pitcher as they're going to receive for him. Now perhaps you'd interpret that as meaning the Yankees should hold onto Matsui. That's fine, too. He's more of a sure thing than Giambi, who would be getting the bulk of the DH at-bats in his absence.

2007-12-07 15:46:37
104.   Mattpat11
I'm not a fan of acquiring number four starters. The free agent and trade markets should be used for acquiring top caliber guys. If you're resigned to using mediocrity in the four and five spots, I'd rather get an in house option than waste money/personnel on mediocrity who you'd then be obligated to use.
2007-12-07 16:03:11
105.   randym77
Nuxy was beloved in Cincinnati.

The Reds will be wearing a Nuxhall patch on their uniforms next season:

2007-12-07 16:14:48
106.   OldYanksFan
Little known fact:
In 4 years with the Yankees, Girardi had 20 SBs and a SB% of 63!!
And for those that think Giambi is a 'baseclogger', as a Yankee, his SB% is 60!
Glad I got that off my chest.
2007-12-07 16:21:51
107.   Mattpat11
106 Would you step in front of a charging Giambi?
2007-12-07 17:20:13
108.   OldYanksFan
107 60%. Take that Dusty Baker! HA!

William....oh William.... WILLIAM!
Please check out:

For a cool listing, select:
Team: NL - NY1
League: NL
Qualify: Qualified
Start Year: ALL
and CHECK the 'AVG' Box.

Scroll Down and check 'Shorty Fuller' and 'Mel Ott'

I can be reached at Yahoo mail at: singledddd etc

I'm ready for the official 'Bronx Banter HOF Qualifying' formula.
We will sell it the the writers and donate the money to Hank and Hal, to go towards Santana's salary (IF they don't give up Phil!)

2007-12-07 18:28:56
109.   Zack
Just remember, that NY Times article is written by Selena Roberts, who has pretty much done nothing but hurl mud at the Yankees since she joined the Times...And, for that matter, everyone else...

And somehow she's getting hired on to SI...

2007-12-07 18:37:39
110.   JL25and3
97 No, they're not the first to portray him that way, or as a "24-and-1" player, or as a lot of other things. I have no idea if any of them are true. What I do know is this: not only is he an astonishingly good ballplayer, he busts his ass all the time, every day.

Does he love his money? No doubt. So do a lot of people, and a lot of ballplayers.

This article was worse than most, because Roberts didn't just say he was a money-grubbing ballplayer. It's the way she pulls together a few irrelevant facts from here and there to "prove" that he doesn't care about winning. Malarkey.

I understood that the Jeter-Rodriguez comparison had specifically to do with how they treat their own foundations. So what? Why does that make Jeter's contribution good but Rodriguez's bad?

100 That's not quite what it said - but it's easy to misread, because it's a vague, confusing and essentially meaningless insinuation. The contribution to U. Miami was in 2002. "The site is near a splendid oceanside estate in Coral Gables that property records show Rodriguez purchased for $12 million in 2004. The manse's value is down — like everything with an address in South Florida." What's the connection? Oh yeah - there is none.

2007-12-07 18:38:58
111.   JL25and3
106 Another little-known fact: in those four years, he went from first to third on a single exactly 6 times.
2007-12-07 19:12:54
112.   JL25and3
106 , 111 Oops, I misread that. I thought both notes were about Giambi.
2007-12-07 19:38:46
113.   Raf
110 That's the thing, I don't see anything that has anything to do with his commitment to winning. All I see is that he's going to get a lot of money for personal achievements.
2007-12-07 19:58:48
114.   Mattpat11
I think A-Rod has plenty of character flaws. I don't particularly like the man. I think he regularly creates situations that have an adverse effect on him. Frankly, I don't think he really gives a flip about anyone not named Alex Rodriguez.

But I don't doubt that he wants to win and be a champion. Its foolish to think otherwise, IMO.

2007-12-08 04:51:25
115.   randym77
Wow. Did she actually imply that the reason A-Rod came back to the Yankees was that he needed the money, because of the real estate bubble bursting?

Dunno if I buy that, but I think this credit crisis thing is going to catch a lot of people you wouldn't expect. Like A-Rod's friend Warren Buffet likes to say, when the tide goes out, you find out who's been swimming naked.

2007-12-08 06:11:40
116.   JL25and3
115 Yep. Because if he hadn't come back to NY, he might have had to settle for...what, $150M? $200M?

Somehow I suspect that would still have allowed him to weather the real estate crisis.

2007-12-08 07:43:03
117.   OldYanksFan
116 Really. Tori Hunter just got $18m/yr for his 105 OPS+. In 5 years, what will guys like that get? $22m? More?

ARods contract is too long, but those last 2 years are for posterity sake. If he stays healthy, he should be worth close to his $27.5 for a while.

I wonder if Trump owns any 'slum' or 'lower class' housing. Or if other millionaires do. Like with Bonds, I love when writers pull one person out of a huge barrel and shine the spotlight on them. It is just so fair and balanced.

2007-12-08 08:52:15
118.   randym77
I just saw in the Post that Vizcaino became a free agent.
2007-12-08 10:41:34
119.   ms october
118 and loretta accepted arbitration, so we don't have to worry about that anymore; but gagne declined arbitration:{
2007-12-08 11:12:13
120.   yankz
I hope the Yankees don't put too much stock in what fans think. From what I've read on other sites, the average fan wouldn't trade Melky for Sizemore because Melky is homegrown and is Cano's buddy.
2007-12-08 12:04:07
121.   monkeypants
117 Right, because the press has never shined the spotlight of criticism on Trump.
2007-12-08 12:23:08
122.   Raf
119 And Gagne's a Brewer
2007-12-08 12:45:44
123.   Mattpat11
120 After 2004, I had an argument with someone who insisted we should sign Milton and Guzman strictly so we could say we have home grown Yankees.
2007-12-08 12:52:19
124.   randym77
120 LOL! You can't split up Melky and Robby. It would break the hearts of all the teenaged girls who are writing sappy Cabrera/Cano porn. ;-)
2007-12-08 14:17:23
125.   Mattpat11
Pettitte officially accepted arbitration.
2007-12-08 17:19:55
126.   JL25and3
And note this headline from Bob Timmerman at The Griddle: Yankees DFA Kiheimahanaomauiakeo.

Not much of a ballplayer. Hall of Fame name.

2007-12-08 17:33:23
127.   randym77
I wonder if Sardinha will clear waivers. He was the Yanks' first round draft pick in 2001. He started out an infielder but was converted to outfield because the Yankees' infield is full.
2007-12-08 17:41:28
128.   Mattpat11
I was looking at the 40 man, and aside from maybe DeSalvo, I didn't see anyone else that you should go "It should have been him!"
2007-12-08 17:48:09
129.   randym77
At least two more players are going to have to be DFA'd, to make room for Mo and A-Rod. I hope one of them is Glass-Ass Pavano. :-P
2007-12-08 18:26:02
130.   Mattpat11
No one on the roster has options?
2007-12-08 18:33:07
131.   randym77
Doesn't matter if they have options or not. Optioning them down only gets them off the 25-man. They still have to be DFA'd to get them off the 40-man roster.

That's why Colter Bean was DFA'd, after only being called up once. Ditto Sardinha - he has options left.

Of course, they could open up a roster spot or two via trade.

2007-12-08 20:00:27
132.   yankz
Olney on Joba: "And he has become an integral part of the Yankees clubhouse, thanks to a demeanor that's equal parts Jeter, with his transcendent confidence; Clemens, with his ability to energize everyone on the field; and Mariano Rivera, with his stoicism on the mound."

Stoicism on the mound? Has he ever even seen him pitch?

2007-12-08 20:44:50
133.   JL25and3
132 Great point. I've read that the one concern about him as a starter is his ability to keep his emotions in check.

And did he really become an "integral" part of the clubhouse? More to the point, did Olney spend enough time there to know?

2007-12-08 21:44:11
134.   Mattpat11
I sort of figured they DFAed Colter Bean because he was Colter Bean.
2007-12-09 09:18:01
135.   OldYanksFan
I am doing some research in to "Stats" and it is very confusing. For 1), there are different formulas for a number of stats. 2) Many compare to 'adjusted league average', which in turn uses Park Factor. However, BR calculates THEIR PF differently than the PF used in the 'accepted' MLB database.
3) And when trying to 'equate stats' in different eras. Just a made up example:
Babe. (1925) OPS = 1.000
Bonds (2000) OPS = 1.000

When adjusting, Babe's OPS+ is WAY higher then Bonds, because the league average was much lower in 1925. Relative to his peers, Babe was WAY better. But if his peers were crappier pitchers and fielders then in 2000 (and all White to boot), Babe's OPS of 1.000 was much easier to get then Bonds' OPS of 1.000 (assuming that Bonds faced better pitching and fielding).
Of course, this doesn't account for ballparks and other factors, but still.... IMHO, comparing leagues in different eras can be misleading because it 'assumes' that the players of each era are equally talented.

I can not find where EQA has any adjustments relative to league or park, but is adjusted by team wins! Team WINS! So if Tony Womack plays on the Yanks, and they have a team .600 WPCT, Tony's EQA is increased by 8.5%. Does this make sense?

Conversely, if Miggy Cabrera's team has a .400 WPCT, his EQA is DECREASED by 8%

So Tony(EQA)= .240, adjusted = .260
Cabrera(EQA)= .350, adjusted = .323
Difference....... .110 .............. = .063

Is this a VALID adjustment what-so-ever????

While I do respect these sabermetric stats, there does appear to be many problems, ESPECIALLY if different stats are taken from MLB vs BR vs BP (or anyone else that has their hands in the stats soup).

MLB REALLY needs to standardize the sabermetric stats, so we at least have a single system where the stats are relative to themselves.

And PARK FACTOR is all screwed up.
Unless there are PHYSICAL changes to a park, shouldn't the PF be static? Why should batting in the Stadium be different in 2006 then in 2000?
IMHO, Park Factor be calculated on some formula involving 1) amount of foul territory, 2) depth of outfield walls, 3) Vision factors (domes, sun, etc) 4) AstroTurf
5)?? (can you think of anything else?)

In 1940, the Stadium had a 96 PF.
In 1945, the Stadium had a 105 PF.
Make any sense to you?

Not be me. Due to the random nature of baseball, more runs just happened to be scored in 1945.
That's a 9% difference. That's a LOT of difference when calculating + stats (or ANY stat that uses PF)

In 1949, the PF was 100. In 2001, the PF was 100.
Make sense? Do you know how much bigger ther park was in 1949?
Anyone think there may have been fewer HRs and more doubles turned into flyouts in 1949?

To me, PF is totally BOGUS in the way it is calcualted. A park has a certain geometry that either hurts or helps (or is 'neutral') hitters. That 'factor' should NOT change unless the geometry is changed.

Of course, my issues are ONLY with Stats that are 'adjusted'. But these are just the Stats we rely on more... aren't they?

2007-12-09 09:42:15
136.   monkeypants
135 PF is based on the runs scored by the home and visiting team that season, so it is a historical stat, not a static metric. Thus, one has to look at PF over the long term, to see how a stadium plays relative to the league in general.

It's like a HR hitter, if a guy slugs 50, 50, 50, 50, 35, and 50 HRs, the HR stat is not screwed up just because one year doesn't seem to "fit." So too, in most seasons Yankee Stadium has played as a pitchers park, but not every season.

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