Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
Hey Joe...
2007-10-28 07:14
by Alex Belth
Note: The Bronx Banter blog has moved to

According to the Daily News, the Yankees have made up their minds and will likely announce the new manager either later today or tomorrow. Joe Girardi, reports the News, will probably be their man. Jon Heyman thinks Joe G is the right cherce. He also has details of a possible offer the Yanks could make to Alex Rodriguez:

It is believed that the extensions the Yankees are weighing would be for five or even six years for something close to $30 million annually, or possibly just a couple million short of that. So the extension offer, which hasn't been finalized yet, could be for about $140 million over five years or $170 million over six years. If the Yankees decide to propose a six-year deal, that would keep Rodriguez in pinstripes until he's 41 since he already has three years and $91 million remaining on his original Rangers contract. With the $91 million that's already coming to him, the Yankees could be committing about $260 million to A-Rod if they go the six-year route.

In the Post, George King has a different take:

When Alex Rodriguez agrees to meet with the Yankees, he can expect to receive a four- to five-year contract offer that, combined with the three years remaining on Rodriguez's deal, will increase his average annual salary of $25.2 million.

Meanwhile, the World Serious is just about done, with Boston holding a commanding 3-0 lead. They are just a much better team than the Rockies, period. As much as I dislike the dude, got to give props to Josh Beckett (and others, of course). I thought he'd be the difference for the Sox this year. But man, has he been tough in October: Dig this.

Comments (516)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-10-28 07:52:47
1.   Sliced Bread
As far as I'm concerned, let the third baseman walk if he wants.
That's too much money, and far too many years.

I love watching the guy play, but the deals that are being discussed are embarrassing.

2007-10-28 08:00:28
2.   Murray
I can't believe that I'm alone in believing that tiresome Kremlinology such as George King's article in yesterday's Post actually indicate nothing about what the front office intends to do. In fact, interpreting Hank S's statements as if they were back-channel messages from paraiah states being delivered through low-level State Department employees is boring.
2007-10-28 08:06:07
3.   monkeypants
1 All contracts are gambles--this would be a great gamble by the Yankees. Is it too many years? Who knows--they're talking about extending a 38 year old closer and 36 year old catcher. I think keeping the best player in the game until he's 40 is pretty doable. Is it too much money? Well, if one is of the "school teachers should get paid more than ball players" campl, it's certainly too much. But relative to the MLB market? If Barry Zito is worth 17 million/year, then ARod is worth 25.

Am I embarrassed. Nope. But I am excited by the thought of ARod cranking #800 in pinstripes.

2007-10-28 08:09:51
4.   Bronxer
3 I could care less about #800 in pinstripes, since a large # of those have come with different teams. How about #27 first. If he doesn't win a WS with the Yankees, he might get booed when he hits #800.
2007-10-28 08:10:44
5.   joejoejoe
Heyman: "if I had to guess...I think...I have always believed...My guess"

Daily News: "there were increasing signs...sources familiar with the GM's thinking"

Magic 8-ball: "Signs point to yes...My sources say no...Don't count on it"

I think I'll just wait for the official announcement from the Yankees.

2007-10-28 08:14:43
6.   Bronxer
5 Nice job.
2007-10-28 08:18:53
7.   monkeypants
2 And speaking about articles with "no there there", the two articles about Girardi as the leader in the managerial "race" (as if the decision is not already made) say absolutely nothing. Heres' the Daily News' "evidence" that Giradi has "pulled ahead":

"While nobody in the Yankee high command was prepared to speculate on Cashman's favorite, sources familiar with the GM's thinking pointed out that Girardi had all the characteristics - an analytical approach, organizational skills that come from having already managed (the Florida Marlins) and a proven ability to handle a pitching staff - Cashman is thought to be looking for."

So basically, the only evidence is that people think that Girardi has the characteristics that people think that Cashman favors. Even if true, wasn't all this known before? In other words, there is absolutely no new "evidence" that one or another "candidate" is leading in the managerial "race."

Heyman's article is equally without evidence. He thinks Girardi will be chosen basically because that's what he imagines. The key "evidence" according to Heyman:

"I have always believed that given the choice he'd hire Girardi...and while Mattingly was thought to have been "passionate'' and "impressive,'' I envision Girardi...acing that interview."

Sorry, nothing to see here. Move along and wait until Tuesday for the announcement. Then we can all spin whatever decision has been made into our own favorite narratives of this ongoing saga.

2007-10-28 08:20:42
8.   monkeypants
4 A goodly number of the Babe's HRs came with Boston printed on his uniform. I'll cope.

But you are correct that #27 is the most important, and adding the best player in the game almost certainly helps to that end.

5 Damn you for typing faster.

2007-10-28 08:25:05
9.   Sliced Bread
4 That's the thing. The booing. NY fans have loved A-Rod during his MVP years, and pretty much hated him otherwise. When the fans are hating on him, the team becomes a drag to behold.
I see no need to sign up for another decade of violent mood swings over the highest paid player in the game.

I would tell A-Rod "We like you. You're great. We'll happily add another year, or two to your current deal, if you feel that will keep you happy and productive. If you require anything more than that, go see what you can get, but we will not pursue you."

2007-10-28 08:29:18
10.   Bronxer
9 I think $30M per for 5 years is too much. I know the financial resources of the Yankees is almost limitless, but it's still too much.

Good point.

2007-10-28 08:35:23
11.   monkeypants
9 I wonder if the mood swings would be so violent given his season this year, and IF he were tied up for the next decade. In other words, over time he would lose the "hired gun" image and become a "true Yankee." Plus, look how much support he got when chasing the increasingly less historically important #500. Imagine the love as the all-time record falls in his sights.

But then again, you might be right.

2007-10-28 08:35:23
12.   Sliced Bread
10 It's definitely too much. That would be my absolute limit.
2007-10-28 08:40:02
13.   Yanks Fan in Chicago
I think that A-Rod would be worth every penny he gets. $30M a year doesn't bother me. I think he sets the table for everyone else in the lineup and would expect the Yanks to not make the playoffs without him.
2007-10-28 08:40:44
14.   jonm
Those who are saying that they should let A-Rod walk or that the offer is too much should have some idea about how the Yankees would replace the 4-6 marginal wins that A-Rod produces for the team. Without A-Rod, and even with all of the other free agents re-signed, the Yankees are a marginal playoff team (88-90 wins) at best.
2007-10-28 08:43:28
15.   Yanks Fan in Chicago
Couldn't agree more, Jonm. That's also not considering what will come of a full year of Hughes, Chamberlain, and Kennedy. All talented, all still unproven as major league starters.
2007-10-28 08:44:02
16.   Bronxer
14 Don't have a free agent list in front of me, or know about possible trades, but it "seems like" $30M could buy you 4-6 marginal wins. Possibly starting with Mike Lowell.
2007-10-28 08:44:44
17.   Sliced Bread
14 then make up the wins with better pitching, better fielding, etc.
A-Rod is not the only winning solution.

I wouldn't commit anything more than 5 years to any player his age, especially at top dollar. Too big a risk. Let somebody else assume such a risk. I don't want my team to do it.

2007-10-28 08:46:08
18.   Yanks Fan in Chicago
I don't see how Mike Lowell replaces A-Rod. Isn't it possible that Lowell's great numbers the past few years come, to some extent, from hitting in a lineup with Manny and Papi.
2007-10-28 08:47:17
19.   Bronxer
18 Maybe, but he put up impressive numbers (sans one season) in Florida, hitting behind ....... anyone?
2007-10-28 08:48:43
20.   Bronxer
18 17 and then maybe some better pitching, too.

Committing for 5 additional years is a lot of years, but hey, it's not MY money.

2007-10-28 08:50:56
21.   KJC
18 Not to mention hitting in Fenway.
2007-10-28 08:53:02
22.   Yanks Fan in Chicago
I think the Yanks should want to keep the best player in the game under contract AND improve their pitching and fielding. They will make a serious mistake if they let A-Rod go.
2007-10-28 08:55:49
23.   jonm
16 Mike Lowell last year had one of the best seasons of his career at age 33. He had had two down seasons before that. Last year Lowell had 12 win shares above bench (roughly 4 marginal wins). ARod had 26 win shares above bench (roughly 8 2/3 marginal wins). You can't expect either player to repeat last season's performance, but still Lowell is nowhere close to A-Rod.

[17} Sliced: how do the Yankees improve their pitching and/or fielding? Basically, they're locked into expensive contracts at every position and, with expensive contracts and promising youth at every slot in the rotation, there's no room there. The Yankees can't make up for A-Rod's loss by getting better middle relief pitchers; that kind of improvement is impossible.

Moving Jeter to 1B or RF would help their fielding, but that isn't going to happen.

2007-10-28 08:59:53
24.   Sliced Bread
I acknowledge the Yanks would be in tough shape without A-Rod, but a ten year commitment is ridiculous.
Cut that in half, and it's still an unbelievable offer. If that's not enough for him, I'd let him walk -- and yes, of course, I'd hate to see him go.
2007-10-28 09:02:36
25.   Yanks Fan in Chicago
The Jeter thing is a good point. I wish that instead of taking this hardline, "we don't negotiate" stance with Torre and A-Rod, the FO would do it with Jeter and tell him that he is one of the worst defensive shortstops in the game and move him to first.
2007-10-28 09:14:50
26.   jonm
25 Agreed. One advantage that the new manager might have is that he would be willing to take a harder line with Jeter. It's a tough position though, I admit.

Even if the Yankees made the fictitious Twins trade, an A-Rod-less Yankees would still be down 1-2 marginal wins; they would be paying the same salary to Rowand and Santana that they pay A-Rod, and they would lose Ian Kennedy.

2007-10-28 09:19:29
27.   rilkefan
Note that inflation will take a big bite out of the relative value of that offer, and I'd guess that MLB salaries are growing faster than that.
2007-10-28 09:20:20
28.   yankz
Haven't we been over this? Cashman has said explicitly that Jeter isn't moving. A new manager isn't going to change that.
2007-10-28 09:22:20
29.   JL25and3
8 Actually, Ruth only hit 49 HR with the Red Sox.

I don't think #800 is the point; I also don't think it makes much sense to think of Rodriguez winning or not winning a championship. Teams win championships, not individuals - but it's a lot easier for teams to win them when they've got really, really good players.

2007-10-28 09:24:16
30.   JL25and3
19 all-time favorite Yankee!

[/sarcasm off]

2007-10-28 09:27:43
31.   jonm
28 I hope that Cashman says that because they don't have an adequate replacement for Jeter. Alberto Gonzalez can't cut it with the bat. Cashman surely knows how bad Jeter is in the field.

If the Yankees acquired someone like Adam Everett and moved Jeter to 1B, the team would be much better defensively.

2007-10-28 09:37:30
32.   ms october
23 Agreed - there is not that much flexibility on this roster - and though I want Posada back as much as the next person, they will have to figure out something for him in 2-3 years.
It would be nice to figure out Giambi/Matsui/Damon and 1B for next year, but I don't see any obvious solutions.
I'm not sure about the length of ARod's contract as far as what is too long given what it will take to re-sign. But if he does in fact have to move to DH by the end of his contract, I hope the roster is not chock full of Giambi types. But that said, I think Cashman, assuming he gets extended himself will not dole out that many more excessively long contracts. But I also think he needs to needs to put even more of a focus of drafting, international scouting, player development to position players now. He's done a good job with pitchers, and shouldn't completely abandon that, but the Yanks need to try to develop some more position players since the ML roster is aging fast, the farm is nothing great, and for at least the rest of this decade it is going to continue to be hard to build a team through FAs.
2007-10-28 09:53:58
33.   monkeypants
31 The problem with moving Jeter to 1B is that his bat might not make up for the position. Sure, he was a horrible fielding SS last year, but he was also one of the best hitters at the position such that the tradeoff was (probably) still worth it. At 1B, I'm not so sure. The better solution would be to find a league average 1B and keep Jeter at SS and suffer through the defense. Or, convince him to move to the OF, but then again, what do you do with the other OFs then?

Not everyone (Jeter, Matsui, Damon, Giambi, Posada) can be moved to 1B/DH in order to keep them healthy/hode their defense.


As for ARod: the YAnkees do not need, nor should they, build a team around high priced aging stars at every position. However, the YAnkees financial advantages mean that they can wisely overpay some superstars and then fill in the roster around them. Overpaying for ARod makes sense--his career trajectory is (probably) a good bet to pay off in the long run in a way that Giambi's did not (and really, was there any doubt that A-Rod would "age" better than Giambi?).

So, throw the Brinks truck at ARod, and maybe also at Posada. Jeter is tied up a for a few more years, and he is still producing at a high level. That's a powerful core around which to place a combination of younger/cheaper players and selected FAs.

So in short--overpay for ARod, not Mike Lowell.

2007-10-28 09:54:35
34.   monkeypants
33 Grrr...

hide their defense.

2007-10-28 09:55:07
35.   monkeypants
I gotta run, but I want to be the first say welcome back to 134 .
2007-10-28 10:08:25
36.   OldYanksFan
People NEED TO STOP talking about ONE PLAYER in relation to winning a WS. Does this mean Donnie was a shitty player... that he should have been traded, because he did not 'LEAD' his team to a WS?

in the 15 years, 1920 to 1934, the Yankees had Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig on the team, possibly the TWO GREATEST players in entire history of Baseball. In that time they played in 7 WS and won 4. FOUR WS VICTORIES in 15 YEARS. Get it!!!

And there were NO SHITTY 5 GAME elimination ALDS series.
Or an additional 7 game ALCS series to get through.

If you don't think ARod is any good, or not worth the money, that's fine. But PLEASE stop putting his worth in context to LEADING the team to a WS! No one, or even 2... even the 2 BEST PLAYERS in HISTORY consistantly lead their team to win the WS!

You might as well blame ARod for 9/11 if you are going to blame him for how the Yankees fare in the PS. IT'S A TEAM effort!

2007-10-28 10:19:23
37.   RIYank
I have no problem at all with the deal as it's been announced. A-Rod at 40 will be worth every nickel, I believe, even if he contributes just a couple of wins ARP. (Didn't he add about a dozen wins this year??) That's because he'll be setting records, and contributing to Yankee attendance records, merchandising records, etc. Boras surely exaggerated Alex's economic value to the team, but he's just as surely right that that value is a lot more than the wins added.
2007-10-28 10:31:53
38.   OldYanksFan
And with that said....
$30m a year is absolutely nuts...
Having to pay a forture for many years of a player in decline or even done is absolutely nuts...

But you have to put this in the context of being a New York Yankee.

Will ARod sell seats to offset his salary?
Will ARod sell Yankee 'stuff' to offset his salary?
Will he bring us headlines and notoriety (which I think it important to the FO)?
Will he set historical records in Pinstripes?
Eveny single PS games brings in BIG (extra) dollars. How much of that might ARod be responsible for?
This year, he singlehandedly was the difference between the PS or not. Will this be the case again, or multiple times over the next 8 years?
Bill Gates can spend $1,000,000,000 easier then I can spend $1,000. Seeing what the Yankees are worth, and if ARod is definitely worth $20m/yr, does it matter if at $30m/yr, it NOT a 'good value'?
Whats ARod going into the HOF as a Yankee worth?
What's it worth for US to have ARod NOT play for the Red Sox? That could literally change the AL PS dynamic for the next ten years?
And yes... what is 600, 700 and 800, not to mention any other records worth the the FO, and also to us fans?
How many games are nationally televised primarily because of ARod?
And remember, that over 9 years, we get about a $3m/yr (or 10%) discount (via Tom Hicks).
Are you glad that 2 guys 60 years dead like Ruth and Gehrig were Yankees? How about Mantle? What is it worth to say these names and say they were Yankees?
What is ARod's 'worth' to Yankee history?

ARod's 'value' as both an icon and a productive player can't be judged compared to the average player. He is a once in a generation or better player.

My guess is: It's way too much money for one guy and we will take a big financial hit in his last years. And we will sign him anyway. And I might have to agree. It's just money.

If over 9 years, we pay ARod an AAV of $27m, and he's 'only worth' an AAV of $17m, I do not believe that $10m 'loss' will prevent the Yankee's from making any moves they need to make.

And as MasterCard will tell us, most things are just money, but there are a few very special things, that are priceless.

2007-10-28 10:36:46
39.   Jeb
8 "A goodly number of the Babe's HRs came with Boston printed on his uniform."

No offense Monkeypants, but the Babe only hit 49 Dingers with the Sox and 6 with the Boston Braves for a total of 56 out of 714 with "Boston" printed on his uniform, which is under 8% total. (I suppose that we could quibble about whether the uniform had "Boston" or "Red Sox", "Braves" or nothing).

2007-10-28 10:44:11
40.   ms october
33 Yes, the Yankees can and probably should wisely overpay for a few FAs. Part of what is wise is staggering some of the contracts so you don't end up with a glut of deadwieght all at the same time.
While other teams like Cleveland will have periods of being competitive and making a run and then have some rebuilding years when they are not good, the Yanks probably will not have to go through that in the same fashion.
2007-10-28 10:48:47
41.   51cq24
38 so one player can single handedly lead a team to the playoffs, but once there can't lead it to the world series?

i think we should keep arod for this money if he doesn't opt out.

2007-10-28 10:52:55
42.   OldYanksFan
"It would be nice to figure out Giambi/Matsui/Damon and 1B for next year, but I don't see any obvious solutions."

This is Jason's last year, and 2009 is it for both Mats ad JD. That's not a lot of time when planning for the future. Even if we sign Mo and Po, by 2010, Jetes and ARod might be the only 'vets' left.

Our current transition to youth and pitching is indeed our salvation. But it doesn't 100% have to happen in just 2 years. Having a core of quality, if not somewhat in decline vets, is OK if you ALSO have fresh blood constantly coming up. We don't have to be the Rockies or the Marlins. Our problems came from having an entire team of older, overpriced vets.

Phil, Joba, IPK, Melky, Wang, Cano, FrankenShelly and 1 kid in the BP makes 8. If we can continually have 8-10 young, cheap guys out of 25, we can also afford expensive vets.

2007-10-28 10:56:28
43.   Jeb
39 oops 55...D'OH
2007-10-28 10:57:32
44.   Jeb
40 the problem with too many free agents though, Ms. October, is the impact that would have on the draft.
2007-10-28 11:02:41
45.   OldYanksFan
41 Do you diasgree? Do we make the PS this year without ARod?
The PS is 3 short series. Any one player can get hot or cold over a short period of time. But over 162 games, the best players ultimately have an impact. But not necessarily so with a small sample size.

Remember when Jetes went 0 for 40? That could be a '0 fer' for both an ALDC and ALCS. But over 162 games, he had very good numbers.

This year, Kaz Matsui really helped in the ALDS and ALCS. Dustpan, Youk and Ellsbury might be the stars of the WS. It's just unpredictable. Anything can happen over 11-21 games.

2007-10-28 11:18:03
46.   ms october
42 Agreed - we don't have that much more of that bunch.
My point is we need to start infusing some more youthful talent in position players because it seems a nice job has been done on the pitching side.
Here is the FA class of 2009 -
2007-10-28 11:20:59
47.   Jeb
46 A southern woman who likes baseball, blogs, and even knows the FA class..
2007-10-28 11:21:19
48.   ms october
44 Fully agree - just saying a few FAs here and there. But I am really more advocating putting more resources into drafting higher end position players (the way Cashman has done with pitchers the last few years) and signing a few more young international position players who are not subject to the draft
2007-10-28 11:22:15
49.   51cq24
45 the answer to "do we make the ps this year without arod?" is no. but that does not mean that he singlehandedly brought the team to the playoffs. other players were vital as well. as you said, it's a team effort.
2007-10-28 11:26:40
50.   Jeb
48 Ms. October you are literally killing me! LOL :o)
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-10-28 11:44:27
51.   Jeb
and I mean that in a good way!
2007-10-28 12:21:30
52.   JL25and3
48 The Yankees could even - gasp - trade some of the surplus young pitching for young position players.
2007-10-28 12:25:57
53.   RIYank
45 Oh, I think we obviously would not have made the post-season without A-Rod this year. That's not close at all. I don't think we would even have been in the WC race. Six or seven games behind Seattle at the end.
2007-10-28 14:08:24
54.   Eirias
Speaking of finances, does anyone else find it absurd that YES network is worth more than twice what the Yankees themselves are worth?
2007-10-28 14:21:24
55.   monkeypants
39 et al...yes I am aware that Ruth hit the vast majority of HRs with the Yankees (and I am pretty certain the uni's had nothing written on them). If ARod stays with the Yankees and ends up hitting 800 HRs, he will have hit more than 400 with the Yankees. It will in no way diminish my excitement to see a pinstriper reclaim the all time HR record, even if he hit around half of his HRs elsewhere (see 4 ), so my point still stands.
2007-10-28 14:37:36
56.   Zack
52 Such an idea has become sacrilege in these parts. Of course, even if all the minor leaguers panned out, which of course they wont, the Yankees would still HAVE to trade some of them as there isn't enough space...
2007-10-28 14:53:26
57.   monkeypants
52 56 Agreed, but such a move must be done with caution. In the past the Yankees were perhaps too quick to trade away youth. I don't mind them erring on the side of caution now. Of course, the best would be a balanced approach.
2007-10-28 16:01:37
58.   yankz
The Giants squeak by the 0-8 Dolphins!
2007-10-28 16:11:54
59.   RIYank
55 I'm with you. The Jeters and Posadas are few and far between. A guy who puts in ten years in pinstripes and sets records with the interlocking NY on his hat is someone I'll be proud of.

58 I'm watching the local boys. Joe Gibbs vs. Bill Belichick -- first time two coaches with three Super Bowl rings apiece have faced off. Not a pretty game. The natives are going to be impossible to shut up this winter.

2007-10-28 16:14:49
60.   yankz
59 The Pats are just absurd this year. I feel bad for whoever they play. Fingers crossed for Indiana to pull it off next week, so the media will stop this "BOSTON IS THE SPORTS MECCA" lovefest. For the last time, it's not a dynasty if they didn't make the playoffs last year!!!
2007-10-28 16:50:18
61.   joe in boston
60 "For the last time, it's not a dynasty if they didn't make the playoffs last year!!! "

Thanks, we needed that. It will tough to quiet all the fans after tonight. Are the Sox on a roll or what ?

2007-10-28 17:11:22
62.   Jeb
Ok, let the speculation begin....BUT....Joe Girardi looked extra-happy during the pregame...almost like someone who's gotta catch a plane for a mid-day press conference tomorrow.
2007-10-28 17:17:01
63.   Chyll Will
47 ,50 Ha! >;)
2007-10-28 17:29:59
64.   Bronxer
61 Forget about "quieting the fans" - let them enjoy it (if it happens). Who cares about dynasty, I just want #26.
2007-10-28 17:30:34
65.   Jeb
63 that's perfection in my book chyll!
2007-10-28 17:30:41
66.   Bronxer
64 - Sorry, #27!
2007-10-28 17:35:23
67.   Chyll Will
65 I wasn't disagreeing with you, I was poking fun at you >;)
2007-10-28 17:38:59
68.   joe in boston
Aha, Bronxer is back for more banter. Not me - I'm just reading tonight.....
2007-10-28 17:39:42
69.   Jeb
67 not a problem.
2007-10-28 17:46:08
70.   yankz
Are you kidding me, they already scored?!
2007-10-28 17:48:15
71.   Jeb
At least if they win they still haven't gotten to celebrate a WS title in FENWAY. Its a small thing - but The thought of that idiot Papelbon doing another jig in front of those morons makes me puke. Maybe he'll break his leg next time.
2007-10-28 19:04:28
72.   Shaun P
RE: A-Rod's value (I'm late to the party):

A-Rod is worth every penny, and maybe more. MLB might take in more money next year than the NFL. What's $30M/year compared to over $6 BILLION/year?

I'm pretty comfortable with the best player of his generation making a yearly salary that is 1 half of 1 percent of the sports' total revenue. That sounds about right.

($30M is 1/2 of 1 percent of $6B.)

2007-10-28 19:13:34
73.   thelarmis
72 i wasn't told there'd be math! ; )

ooh, we actually have a math teacher on this board and a math fan. can't remember who though...

all signs pointing to girardi at this point. olney's got an article and there's a video section at espn. i wonder how donnie will react. i know i'll certainly feel more comfy w/ girardi at the helm. hopefully pena does indeed stay on. i wonder if they'd ask mattingly to manage in the minor league system.

damn rockies can't score a freaking run. total bollocks...

2007-10-28 19:16:29
74.   Matty B
Sports Illustrated's website ( is showing a breaking news banner that says Rodriguez will opt out of his contract, but an article isn't up yet.
2007-10-28 19:17:48
75.   yankz
Here's an article:

If it's true, burn in hell you piece of shit.

If it's not...oops, sorry!

2007-10-28 19:18:41
76.   Matty B
Article is up now and apparently Boras and A-Rod didn't even meet with the Yankees to discuss an extension.
2007-10-28 19:22:36
77.   thelarmis
just throwing this out there whilst the possibility still exists - as slight as it is... nothing, at this point, would do my heart better than seeing the shit sox blow this 3-0 lead and lose the Series. that would just rule!
2007-10-28 19:28:16
78.   monkeypants
75 76 We shall see. I highly doubt that ARod gets a deal any longer/more lucrative than the one the Yankees are supposedly going to offer him if he opts out. Also, I highly doubt that ARod will opt out the second the WS ends--it makes more sense to string the Yankees along as long as he can. This strikes me as a bargaining ploy by Boras to ratchet up the pressure on the Yankees to up their offer.

Then again, I could be wrong. If he does opt out, the Rangers will certainly be happy.

2007-10-28 19:28:41
79.   thelarmis
oh my freaking god! just when you thought this offseason couldn't get any worse.

75 yes, he's a fucking piece of dogshit. no negotiating - he obviously had his mind made up prior and never really had any intention of staying. what a jerkoff.

well, i guess the best medicine will be to just win it all without the mercenary next year. jackass.

2007-10-28 19:30:18
80.   Mattpat11
I've seen some onesided doozies, but this is shaping up to be one of the most utterly non competitive world series I've ever personally witnessed.

I never believed the Rockies were close to winning a game, regardless of the score or game situation.

2007-10-28 19:30:21
81.   thelarmis
78 if he opts out, we're not offering him any contract...

yeah, tom hicks will be thrilled...

where'dya think he'll end up? cubs? dodgers?

2007-10-28 19:31:29
82.   yankz
Wow. He didn't even negotiate.
2007-10-28 19:32:50
83.   thelarmis

80 i know how you feel.

whoa, wait a minute - cook is still out there? this is like the westbrook game. frick, frick, double frick.

2007-10-28 19:33:36
84.   thelarmis
82 neh, why should he? he probably never had any real intention of staying here. jerkoff.
2007-10-28 19:33:53
85.   monkeypants
81 I think he ends up with the Yankees, because I think he won't opt out.

But assuming that he does--who knows? SF is freeing up some money, at least next year, without Barry. I just don't see the Sox making that kind of financial commitment with their current payroll. Dodgers or Angels?

2007-10-28 19:35:26
86.   thelarmis
does any of this have to do with girardi? did a-rod not want to play for him?
2007-10-28 19:35:47
87.   monkeypants
82 84 Relax--this IS negotiating. Boras conveniently leaks info that his client will opt out, citing Yankees' "unsettled" situation as justification. This sends the Yankees into full panic mode, offering him more money/years as they basically bid against themselves.
2007-10-28 19:37:05
88.   yankz
86 Seriously doubt it. If he does opt out without negotiating with the Yankees, it meant he never wanted to stay in NY in the first place.

I blame C-Rod if it transpires like that.

2007-10-28 19:37:18
89.   monkeypants
86 Really relax! Now you're citing one unconfirmed story as an explanation for another unconfirmed story. The media have you wrapped around their little finger, don't they!
2007-10-28 19:38:00
90.   thelarmis
85 unfortunately, it sounds like he already notified the yanks he's opting out.

well, lowell just homered, maybe we can snag him... or aramis ramirez if alex goes to the cubs. then again, he'll probably switch back to shortstop for a coupla years. i'm sure he'll state SS, fans booing, media, manager/free agent as his top reasons. he might even mention his new baby coming and him wanting a different city or some bullshit.

either way, our team just got worse...

2007-10-28 19:39:01
91.   yankz
87 Did you read the Heyman article? It quotes Boras, who says they've already notified the team. And if you believe Cashman, that means Arod will not be a Yankee next year.
2007-10-28 19:39:25
92.   thelarmis
89 ooh, i hope you're right! i really, really do. watching the sux win isn't helping matters. : /
2007-10-28 19:43:14
93.   monkeypants
90 I have to believe that opting out requires some sort of official document--not a phone call or text message (or even "written notification") from Boras. Just because he says he is opting out does not mean he is. Again, it makes no sense for him to do it the moment the series ends. This is a bargaining ploy to see what the Yankees will offer.

Now, he MAY in fact opt out--and pressure the Yankees to stand by their public statement that they are out of the biddding at that point. But even then, it makes sense for him to wait the full ten days.

2007-10-28 19:44:05
94.   monkeypants
91 I did read it. It didn't say anything of real substance--see 93 .
2007-10-28 19:46:27
95.   yankz
93 How else would you opt out?
2007-10-28 19:46:31
96.   Mattpat11
A-Rod is a lot like Roger Clemens. The player is an alltime great. The man behind that talent? Not so much.

I'll still take the talent any day over the personality. I'd take Jack the Ripper on this team if I thought he'd help us win a world title. But you also have to realize what you're dealing with and not become too attached.

2007-10-28 19:47:21
97.   yankz
""Alex made the decision today,'' Boras said. "I thought we should notify the club.''"

I don't see how you can spin that into "Just kidding!"

2007-10-28 19:49:02
98.   monkeypants
95 Presumably there is a legal document that would have to be signed--perhaps even some part of the original contract. In other words, if someone gets mad and pops off a letter or text message ("Fuck you assholes, I'm opting out"), presumably he is not bound legally to that.
2007-10-28 19:49:03
99.   thelarmis
finally rockies on the board. just a solo shot though. 3-1, top 7, no outs.

pretty much seems like a-rod is a goner...

2007-10-28 19:50:43
100.   yankz
98 Rodriguez's agent Scott Boras said he sent word of the opt-out in writing Sunday and left phone and text messages for Yankees general manager Brian Cashman.

I'm sorry man- I hope to hell you're right- I just don't see it. Seriously though, let's all pray you're right.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-10-28 19:51:36
101.   thelarmis
tejada will most likely be available and could/should move to 3rd. not sure i'd be down w/ the bounty he might warrant in return...

97 agreed. sounds like he's done here...

2007-10-28 19:52:38
102.   Mattpat11
101 I'm not sure I want to deal with the ramifications of the Mitchell Report with Tejada on the team.
2007-10-28 19:52:52
103.   monkeypants
97 It's not spin, it is (I believe) bargaining. Imagine:

Boras: "Yep, we just thought that we should inform the club of our intentions."

Yankees: "No ARod! Pleeeeeaaase don't opt out we love you. Here is a 10 extension at 50 million dollars a year,"

Boras: "Well, I'll have to talk to my client about this..."


Seriously, what good would it do NOT to claim to be opting out? Or to announce publicly that he won't do it. ARod's only leverage with the Yanks is the opt out clause. The Yanks' only leverage with ARod is the vow not to negotiate with him if he does opt out. They're both playing hardball now.

2007-10-28 19:54:10
104.   yankz
Don't the Rockies have a young 3B coming up? Maybe Cash can spin a steal for Atkins centered around IPK.
2007-10-28 19:54:20
105.   Jeb
I wanted to keep Arod, but if he doesn't want to be a Yankee then fuck him. We've won 26 world series without him and none with him. I realize that he carried the team this year, but he's still "the cooler" in some circles.


2007-10-28 19:55:18
106.   thelarmis
102 oh, i totally agree. i wouldn't want tejada, either. just trying to think of some possible solutions...

103 again, i sincerely hope you're right, i just don't think that's the case. a-rod's out. : (

2007-10-28 19:55:37
107.   monkeypants
100 Right, but what does that actually mean? A letter? (Dear Yankees, this is to inform you of my client's decision to opt out.).

Maybe he's a goner. But I still see this as part of the negotiating.

2007-10-28 19:55:43
108.   dianagramr
Adrian Beltre .... Adrian Beltre ....
2007-10-28 19:58:41
109.   Jeb
From ESPN "Some executives are convinced that no other team will come close to the enormous extension offer the Yankees intended to make, and rival agents and executives are reading the steady stream of public negotiation rhetoric from Boras as a bluff."

By the way, if this is all true, the Yankees should notify their players that they will not negotiate with Boras again and will never again sign a Scott Boras client. He's been poison to the Yanks for a long time and it's time to nip that motherfucker in the bud.

2007-10-28 19:59:18
110.   yankz
108 107 Career OPS+...107 Career OPS+
2007-10-28 19:59:20
111.   monkeypants
105 I'm not sure it's all about the pitching. On the other hand, losing the best player in the game will be a serious blow, but it also frees up massive amounts of money. The question, should this play out as everyone assumes, is what the team does with the newly freed cash. The best thing might be to "sacrifice" next year, rather than freaking out and signing a declining Tejada or soon to be over-the-hill Lowell.
2007-10-28 19:59:49
112.   yankz
109 I like the attitude, but it's stupid. Many of the best players pick Boras.
2007-10-28 20:01:50
113.   yankz
Oh my god, Adrian Beltre had a .319 OBP last year. I think Wilson Betemit could do that.
2007-10-28 20:02:08
114.   thelarmis
109 ah, i think i read that. man, i sure hope it's a bluff and something gets done. i'm no good w/ politics, business and the like. i just hope alex stays. we'll see...
2007-10-28 20:02:34
115.   yankz
To quote WasWatching: Dewey defeats Truman...Dewey defeats Truman...
2007-10-28 20:03:05
116.   thelarmis
oh dear. mike friggin' timlin??? feh!
2007-10-28 20:04:03
117.   thelarmis
113 yes, i'd rather willie b. than taking on beltre's contract. is betemit on the team for next year? i guess i could look on the sidebar... : ~
2007-10-28 20:06:04
118.   yankz
IF this is true---

Do people think he left because he thought he could get more money, or because he didn't like NY, or both?

To be perfectly honest, I'm not sure how much I can blame him if it's the latter. The press and the moron fans treated him like shit for the majority of his years in NY.

2007-10-28 20:07:29
119.   yankz
2007-10-28 20:07:32
120.   thelarmis
bobby kielty? what a horrible fricking month this has been for baseball in yankeeland... : (
2007-10-28 20:08:21
121.   monkeypants
118 It would have to be the latter, I think. Because there is just about no way any other team could match the years/money that the Yankees will offer--considering the team's financial reasources AND the Rangers' subsidy.

That said, if he leaves for personal reasons, is he principled like the former manager (in other words, how will the story play out in the press)?

2007-10-28 20:08:45
122.   thelarmis
118 i think it's the latter. he'll be a happier person in a different city...
2007-10-28 20:08:56
123.   yankz
Wow. Amazing how Boston winning the World Series immediately took the back seat in my mind after reading that.
2007-10-28 20:09:38
124.   yankz
121 His fortitude will certainly be questioned. "I guess he couldn't hack it in NY!"
2007-10-28 20:09:43
125.   tommyl
Oh man, I have been one of A-Rod's biggest supporters around these parts. I've defended him to everyone since he came here, no more strongly than last year. If he pulled this, without even hearing the Yankees offer, well its a gut reaction, but: That man is dead to me. I will boo him every single chance I get. Hopefully some time will soften what I just said, but right now it feels like a gut punch.
2007-10-28 20:09:56
126.   thelarmis
and there it is - a-rod opting out is news at the WS. ken rosenthal just spoke to boras. this is done...
2007-10-28 20:11:11
127.   yankz
So, if Arod left because he hated NY, I think it's safe to say he won't be in Boston next year.
2007-10-28 20:12:01
128.   Simone
Wow, just heard on FOX that A-Rod opted out. He left all that money on the table. Boras must have another deal lined up. Goodbye, A-Rod. It has been fun.
2007-10-28 20:12:21
129.   Jersey
So, do we think it's Anaheim for ARod next year?
2007-10-28 20:12:32
130.   thelarmis
127 yeah, i don't think he'd go to boston. but buck is talking about it now...
2007-10-28 20:13:40
131.   thelarmis
129 i'm thinking the Cubbies. playing shortstop for Sweet Lou. teammates w/ Soriano, the man he was originally traded for...
2007-10-28 20:13:58
132.   Mattpat11
124 Absolutely no one to blame but himself.
2007-10-28 20:14:07
133.   tommyl
130 LA? Anaheim? Cubs? I hope he goes to the Giants and has fun losing with Barry Zito and company for the rest of his life.

I wonder if this has anything to do with the supposed impending announcement of Girardi as manager? Does A-Rod dislike him or something?

2007-10-28 20:14:43
134.   Simone
118 I think a bit of both. He has always wanted lots of money and probably wanted to get the hell out of NY. He definitely gave the fans and media who ragged on him the finger on the way out. Good for him. I supported Alex in NY and refuse to boo him when he comes back with another team. Too many Yankee fans are dumbasses and never appreciate anything good until it is gone.
2007-10-28 20:14:59
135.   dianagramr

I vote for Japan :-)

2007-10-28 20:15:32
136.   Jeb
Guys, seriously, don't worry about Arod too much because we can replace him with an average player at 3rd and then find someone who can play first and hit. The key is the pitching. See below and you'll sleep better tonight:

1996 871 Runs ERA+ 108
1997 891 Runs ERA+ 117
1998 965 Runs ERA+ 116
1999 900 Runs ERA+ 114
2000 871 Runs ERA+ 101
2001 801 Runs ERA+ 111
2002 897 Runs ERA+ 114
2003 877 Runs ERA+ 109
2004 897 Runs ERA+ 96
2005 886 Runs ERA+ 93
2006 930 Runs ERA+ 102
2007 968 Runs ERA+ 99

From 1996-2003, the Yankees scored 884 Runs per season and had an ERA+ average of 111. From 2004-2007, the Yankees scored 920 runs per season and had an ERA+ average of 97.5.

Scoring runs is wonderful, but great pitching is the key to playing in the World Series 6 times in 8 years. It's as simple as that!

FUCK AROD. Use the money to get a good first-baseman and concentrate on pitching because good pitching beats good hitting.

Just for sour grapes to make me feel even better (and I have NEVER said this about Arod before), just let me add that Arod was never a true Yankees

2007-10-28 20:16:08
137.   thelarmis
133 i do think the girardi thing is part of it, but only slightly...

if lowell leaves the sux, phils are his 1st choice and they're certainly interested...

2007-10-28 20:17:03
138.   Mattpat11
122 Alex Rodriguez isn't happy unless he's the center of attention. When he's not the center of attention, he does something stupid to rectify that. I doubt a geogrpahy change will change that.
2007-10-28 20:17:26
139.   thelarmis
134 nice to see you're back! ; )
2007-10-28 20:17:26
140.   Flip Play
Screw A-Rod. All ARod cares about is money and attention, and he doesn't even have the decency to sit down with the Yanks and listen to their offer, than screw him.

He is a great player, but he was a great player from '96-'03 when we went to the WS six times without him.

2007-10-28 20:18:30
141.   JL25and3
Foolish, foolish move.
2007-10-28 20:18:38
142.   Mattpat11
136 I'm not sure we'll go after someone who can play first and hit. The team's MO seems to be ignore than in favor of spending some absurd amount of money on a shitty pitcher.
2007-10-28 20:18:48
143.   yankz
134 I kind of agree with you, but the press and the fans adored him this year, and every indication was he didn't care what people thought anymore. I just can't believe he turned down 150 million, and getting to be big brother to Melky and Cano, and being "Superman" on the Yankees (remember when Alex wrote that?).
2007-10-28 20:19:34
144.   Jeb
A true Yankee (not Yankees). Now I feel like I just referred to the INTERNET*S* in a debate!

112 not if they want to play for the Yanks!

2007-10-28 20:20:50
145.   Mattpat11
143 I said that then, and I'll say it now. A-Rod's own fat mouth got him into at least half the problems he had in New York. I could never feel sorry for a man that never knew when to shut the fuck up.
2007-10-28 20:22:10
146.   yankz
144 If tonight's any indication, nobody will play for the Yanks if they can get more money elsewhere.
2007-10-28 20:22:28
147.   Sarasota
A Rod may be gone, but we still have Hank!!!
2007-10-28 20:22:36
148.   thelarmis
141 yeah, alex will, of course, put up insanely laughable numbers whereever he goes next, but it'll definitely hurt his career in some ways to not be remembered as a "yankee"

c'mon rox, pull out one freaking game. please!!!

2007-10-28 20:23:17
149.   JL25and3
Since I blasted the Yankees for what I thought was a sham meant to cover their asses I have to say: please, Scott, Alex, don't tell us he did this because he didn't know if Posada and Rivera would sign. That's as transparent a lie as there could be, and we're just not that stupid.

And having said that, I hope the Yankees change their mind and sign him. It's still the best move for the team. The "average 3b-good 1b" plan only works if it's a hell of a first baseman. Whom did you have in mind?

2007-10-28 20:23:20
150.   jkay
It is all Mo's fault!!.....

Boras said during a telephone interview that Rodriguez made his choice because he was uncertain whether Mariano Rivera, Jorge Posada and Andy Pettitte would return to the Yankees.

"Alex's decision was one based on not knowing what his closer, his catcher and one of his statured pitchers was going to do," Boras said. "He really didn't want to make any decisions until he knew what they were doing."

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-10-28 20:23:37
151.   thelarmis
147 too bad it's not hank aaron or greenberg...
2007-10-28 20:24:28
152.   yankz
150 I seriously doubt that.
2007-10-28 20:24:44
153.   marc
This is exactly what would be expected if you fire a manager for zero valid reason while a number of FA's who love the guy and want to play for him are at jeopardy.
2007-10-28 20:25:18
154.   Sarasota
I can't wait for Hank's statement...
2007-10-28 20:25:28
155.   thelarmis
150 yeah, it's a total bullshit cop out. and just about everyone knows Mo and Po will be back. um, i hope. they're coming back, right? they best!!!
2007-10-28 20:25:57
156.   Mattpat11
150 I have to assume this means if all those stars came back, Alex would have to work extra hard to make it all about him again. He already pulled the race card, there really aren't that many more shocking things he can do to put himself in the headlines.
2007-10-28 20:26:05
157.   Simone
139 Thanks :)

143 The "he didn't care what people thought anymore" was the clue staring us in the face and the people who supported Alex all along didn't get seee it. In retrospect, Alex clearly was done with NY and all the BS which is why he was so carefree and had that big year.

2007-10-28 20:26:51
158.   thelarmis
153 true, except i really don't think there was a major connection in the relationship of a-rod/torre. i can indeed seeing that affect posada and pettitte some though. still, they'll most likely be back.
2007-10-28 20:27:53
159.   randym77
They said his worry was "the composition of the team." Maybe he's worried his pal Minky won't be back next year. ;-)

Seriously, though, I'm a little worried about that, too. Not just the players, either. Torre gone, the Boss mostly gone, Swindal gone, the two Steinbrenner sons who apparently didn't care enough about the Yankees to be involved until their sister divorced Swindal now nominally in charge. The politicking is going to be brutal.

I think A-Rod knows he doesn't have many years left to win the jewelry, and he didn't think he was going to do it with the Yankees.

2007-10-28 20:28:09
160.   yankz
Ugh, scratch the Atkins idea. Career .927 OPS at Coors, .781 on the road.
2007-10-28 20:28:22
161.   thelarmis
157 oh, hi simone! doh - i was just referring to the post # of 134 w/ this weekend's mystery and all. : ~
2007-10-28 20:28:44
162.   Schteeve
Well, maybe we'll be good in 2009.

What a pisser.

2007-10-28 20:29:12
163.   yankz
159 The Dodgers, White Sox, and Mets have a better chance?

I mean, MAYBE the Angels or Sox. But I really think it's the Yanks.

2007-10-28 20:29:52
164.   yankz
153 That is not the reason Arod left.
2007-10-28 20:29:57
165.   thelarmis
159 a-rod has, most likely, at least another decade to get the jewelry. he's in great shape and should certainly play into his early 40's...
2007-10-28 20:31:26
166.   marc
453 what they said on Fox was that they made the decision because they no longer knew who'd he'd be playing with. I posted the same belief of the severe peril of firing Joe at this time before any of this news came up
2007-10-28 20:32:01
167.   Mattpat11
Maybe this will just wind up being more money for Mrs. Rod when she dumps his cheating ass. That would be somewhat satisfying.
2007-10-28 20:32:22
168.   yankz
I wonder if they should just punt 08. Not trade everybody for kids, but look to move Damon, or maybe Matsui.
2007-10-28 20:32:58
169.   jkay
How can A-Rod win a WS when he does not hit in the playoffs? He would have won a ring or 2 in NY if he had been clutch in the playoffs.
2007-10-28 20:33:40
170.   yankz
166 That's if you believe Arod when he said he left because the team was in flux. I don't. I think he hated NY so much he was willing to leave 180 million and the friends he made on the team.
2007-10-28 20:34:49
171.   Ramone
Go Rockies!
2007-10-28 20:35:24
172.   yankz
I hate, hate, hate to say this, but the fans almost certainly had a lot to do with this. Them and the press. Everyone's lost their favorite whipping boy.
2007-10-28 20:36:14
173.   yankz
Never mind, we want Atkins!
2007-10-28 20:36:22
174.   thelarmis
that lowell blast is now looming large. hurdle had no business sending cook out there to start the 7th...
2007-10-28 20:36:23
175.   dianagramr
I think Dane Cook told A-Rod to opt out ...
2007-10-28 20:36:58
176.   thelarmis
oh, nice timing fox - they just showed the roger clemens cingular 'coming back' commercial. bollocks.
2007-10-28 20:37:00
177.   pistolpete
170 The man had a few weeks to see if the team settled its managerial & FA situations - the fact that he opted out now means he's either a greedy b@stard or he's had his fill of the NY media & the fans who booed him for 4 years.

Can't say I blame him, but this does little to boost any hope I had of us being competitive next year.

2007-10-28 20:37:08
178.   Flip Play
No let's see the Rockies come back and kick the Sox's ass! Wouldn't that be unbelievably awesome...
2007-10-28 20:37:33
179.   pistolpete
Is that blasted game over yet? I'm following through BB...
2007-10-28 20:38:39
180.   Mattpat11
170 I always say, if Roger Clemens told me the sky was blue, I'd have to assume it was green, because every word that comes out of his mouth is a lie.

I may be adding someone else to that select group.

2007-10-28 20:38:42
181.   dianagramr
it kind of explains why he wasn't in colorado to accept his Silver Slugger tonight ...
2007-10-28 20:39:04
182.   Ramone
172 F-ing Joel Sherman is doing cartwheels right now. His sole accomplishment in life is helping to drive A-Rod out of New York.
2007-10-28 20:39:34
183.   thelarmis
179 nope. 4-3, bot 8, 1 out. paplebitch in for a 5 out save. hopefully he'll blow it...
2007-10-28 20:39:47
184.   Sarasota
I'll miss A Rod. It was exciting while he was here, especially this last year. Regardles of what he's saying, he and Jeter still don't get along, he was brutalized by the press, and he wasn't going to put up with the Hankees. Let's see if Mo and Po do....but there's a lot of money out there..and as far as Yankees glory..well we all saw how they handled Bernie and Torre.....A Rod didn't buy the monument schtick...
2007-10-28 20:40:09
185.   randym77
163 I think he might go to Boston. Which, as they just said on the WS broadcast, makes it a policy not to sign players over 35 years old.

Maybe we'll just trade third basemen...

2007-10-28 20:40:18
186.   Mattpat11
172 And again, if A-Rod could have shut the fuck up every now and then, they wouldn't have any ammunition. He wanted to be the center of attention. When he was, it hurt his feelings.
2007-10-28 20:40:21
187.   Flip Play
177 ARod has known for months, if not the whole season, that he was gonna opt out. Nodoubtaboutit.

Even with a few hits under his belt in the Division Series there were headlines of ARod blowing it again. He doesn't need that shit. And if the Yanks miraculously got to the Serious and won, he'd still opt out -- more money, more stature, less pressure. He would've gotten his ring and be on his way.


2007-10-28 20:40:28
188.   Jeb
149 Juan Miranda (ultimately). OR, how about Cano at First and make Iguchi the second baseman.
2007-10-28 20:41:13
189.   pistolpete
184 Maybe now they can get back to playing baseball instead of playing the 'what did Alex say now game'...

I'm looking forward to it, actually.

2007-10-28 20:41:14
190.   thelarmis
181 good point.

yeah, i think he was just fed up w/ NY - the fans, the media, the whole shabang...

167 there's gonna be a 2nd kid involved come next spring. that makes it a dicey situation...

2007-10-28 20:42:41
191.   yankz
Guess who the most powerful Yankee RH is right now?

That's right, one Shelley Duncan! Bring on Santana and Sabathia!

2007-10-28 20:43:42
192.   yankz
186 There was no need to boo him last year. Also, I would bet that most athletes cheat on their wives. Only Arod makes the back page because of it.
2007-10-28 20:43:51
193.   JL25and3
I heard Boras on the radio a week or so ago, and he basically thought the Yankees' stance on opting out was a bluff. It'll be interesting to see.
2007-10-28 20:43:53
194.   Sarasota
189 I am too, but I'll miss some of his exciting at bats. I'm also kind of glad he's sticking it to the Steins.......
2007-10-28 20:43:53
195.   thelarmis
188 hmmm, i can dig some of that. i wouldn't mind seeing robbie at the hot corner w/ his athletic ability and cannon of an arm...
2007-10-28 20:44:33
196.   Jeb
191 go get Johan Santana and we'll cure that sub-100 ERA+ problem 136 and the Yanks will reign supreme. BUT, we'd better not trade too much for him.
2007-10-28 20:44:34
197.   Jeb
191 go get Johan Santana and we'll cure that sub-100 ERA+ problem 136 and the Yanks will reign supreme. BUT, we'd better not trade too much for him.
2007-10-28 20:44:49
198.   JL25and3
188 I don't see that as much of a solution.
2007-10-28 20:45:31
199.   yankz
1. Damon
2. Jeter
3. Abreu
4. Posada?
5. Matsui
6. Cano
7. Duncan/Giambi
8. Betemit
9. Melky


2007-10-28 20:45:54
200.   yankz
188 Cano is one of the two or three best fielding 2B in the game. No fucking way.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-10-28 20:46:45
201.   JL25and3
196 If you want to get Johan Santana, be prepared to give up one or two blue chips. No use even dreaming about it otherwise.
2007-10-28 20:46:58
202.   thelarmis
3 outs left. heading to the 9th. rox down by a run...
2007-10-28 20:47:05
203.   yankz
1 more inning till the Worst Night of the Yankee Dynasty...
2007-10-28 20:47:31
204.   JL25and3
199 That's really a grisly prospect.
2007-10-28 20:48:07
205.   thelarmis
199 well, you know that if alex is indeed gone - and all points are leaning that way, at this point - ca$hmoney will indeed do something major to help atone...
2007-10-28 20:48:55
206.   Sarasota
199 well in that case, I'd dump as much as I could and then absolutely give it over to Girardi and prey for a Marlins miracle redux.
2007-10-28 20:49:17
207.   pistolpete
203 It's got little to do with us. If you don't feed into it, you won't be bothered by it.
2007-10-28 20:49:17
208.   thelarmis
we'll be even worse if andy doesn't come back. shudder to think...
2007-10-28 20:50:01
209.   Mattpat11
189 We were doing that for a while this year. There was no controversy, A-Rod was having his best year, but every single headline wasn't about him, and things were relatively calm on the A-Rod front.

Then he decided to indiscreetly walk around Toronto with his girlfriend, so we got a good two weeks of everything being about A-Rod again.

But then the rest of the year was nice. If he behaves, there really isn't much of a problem. When he does something moronic, its a feeding frenzy.

2007-10-28 20:50:13
210.   yankz
They can offer him arbitration?
2007-10-28 20:50:16
211.   thelarmis
206 how bout just getting miguel cabrera from the fish instead?
2007-10-28 20:50:55
212.   JL25and3
Well, at least this gives us a new horse to flog.
2007-10-28 20:51:51
213.   Sarasota
211 ..that's better than what the lineup looks like right now
2007-10-28 20:52:14
214.   Mattpat11
205 Oh God. The last time he did something big to step up after losing out on a big name he signed Igawa!
2007-10-28 20:52:31
215.   yankz
211 You ready to part ways with Phil, Cano, and others?
2007-10-28 20:52:44
216.   JL25and3
209 I don't see that as doing something moronic. Half the guys on the team were probably walking around Toronto with blonde bimbos.

Remember, this is the guy who was put on the front page for taking off his shirt in Central Park. You can't blame him for all of it.

2007-10-28 20:53:19
217.   Sarasota
214 .........perhaps Hank will out do him.....
2007-10-28 20:54:13
218.   pistolpete
211 Haven't heard great things about his work ethic, and he's got about 20-30 extra pounds on him as well...

But, I'm sure if it's Girardi next year and he likes Cabrera, we might very well get him...

2007-10-28 20:54:53
219.   ajamesd
According to Keith Law at ESPN, Boras's announcement might be a bluffing tactic. What do you guys think?

"Nick (NY): How much weight would you put in that SI story? it has a quote right from Boras. I'm really worried.

SportsNation Keith Law: (10:54 PM ET ) No weight until we hear/see that A-Rod has officially opted out. Until then, everything either side says is a negotiating tactic."

2007-10-28 20:54:58
220.   JL25and3
211 Cabrera's a great hitter. He's also got a reputation as a terrible fielder, and he's already getting fat at 24.
2007-10-28 20:55:07
221.   thelarmis
here comes the bottom of the 9th. last chance for rox...
2007-10-28 20:56:21
222.   yankz
219 Like I said- I REALLY hope he's right. I just don't think he is.
2007-10-28 20:56:23
223.   pistolpete
221 Possible bright side, albeit minimal - Sox miss out on celebrating at Fenway.
2007-10-28 20:56:38
224.   Sarasota
.........last licks for the ROX.............damn but they sucked.........Boston is gonna be nuts
2007-10-28 20:56:47
225.   thelarmis
oh, i know all of the badness regarding cabrera, i was just kinda thinking out loud. if we're looking for a 3rd baseman who might be available and would come somewhat close to a-rod's production, the list is short. none of the players would be a perfect acquisition...
2007-10-28 20:57:55
226.   yankz
brockdc at WasWatching nailed it:

"A-rod will win the MVP this year because he put up monster stats on a winning team. But anyone who paid attention this season witnessed an individual who matured on multiple levels - most conspicuously as a legitamate team leader. Combine his prodigious skills and emerging leadership with a work ethic that is virtually unparalelled and you have a player that is simply irreplacable.

Damn you, A-rod (and *&^% you, Boras)."

2007-10-28 20:57:56
227.   tommyl
219 I dunno about that. I mean, the guy said he sent written and phone word to the Yankees. The AP has picked it up and every major media outlet seems to be reporting it or carrying the AP story. I think its probably real.
2007-10-28 20:58:03
228.   3rd gen yankee fan
Hey also... doncha just love that even if the Sux are about to sweep the series, Yankees news can't be ignored...
2007-10-28 20:58:08
229.   Mattpat11
216 I couldn't tell you whether or not half the team had bimbos. Probably because anyone else that did had the common sense to wear a fucking hat and glasses or stay in the hotel and not get caught.

And yes, not everything was his fault. But I completely disagree with the idea that Alex Rodriguez was some big victim. He's a man that said or did whatever he wanted, to whomever he wanted, and was shocked when there were some kind of ramifications.

2007-10-28 20:59:11
230.   JL25and3
I really, really want to see the Rockies win this off Jonathan Goodpaper.
2007-10-28 21:00:55
231.   thelarmis
229 i wonder if he paid for her parking! ; )

ooh, i'm about to be sick... 2 outs away from more hell.

2007-10-28 21:02:25
232.   yankz
Check out the first comment at Dodger Thoughts- it got 134'd!
2007-10-28 21:02:47
233.   thelarmis
OH FUCK!!! sooo damn close. out at the wall. 1 damn out left...
2007-10-28 21:02:51
234.   marc
Arod was very happy and wanted to stay with the Yankees. This all unraveled with the firing of Torre. Keep in mind it wasn't Arod who was the first one to indicate a problem. Mo made it immediately aware when when Joe was going that he was now a true FA and no longer felt he had reason to have to stay with the team. Arod had gotten very comfortable with everyone including Joe. There was a neon sign saying this was not the year to dump Torre and it certainly wasn't the year to do it in a way where every player on the team knows what it means to get offered a cut in pay. Welcome to the Levine era and the dark ages. Levine's decisions and the others going along with it are the new No No annette.
2007-10-28 21:03:46
235.   yankz
234 Again, doubt it.
2007-10-28 21:04:21
236.   51cq24
234 bullshit. last year everyone thought arod wanted joe out.
2007-10-28 21:06:02
237.   Ramone
229 If you think the reason that nobody else makes the front (or even back) page with their bimbo is that everyone else is more discreet than A-Rod, you really are naive.
2007-10-28 21:06:18
238.   thelarmis
it's ovah... : (
2007-10-28 21:06:45
239.   3rd gen yankee fan
2007-10-28 21:06:49
240.   Mattpat11
What a miserable evening.
2007-10-28 21:06:52
241.   yankz
Honestly, if I could design a worst case scenario, it would be Arod opting out the same day the Sox won the World Series.
2007-10-28 21:07:27
242.   yankz
For anyone who's interested, last year's 3B sorted by OBP:

I don't even give a shit right now.

2007-10-28 21:08:25
243.   Mattpat11
237 I think Alex Rodriguez is an egomaniac who goes out of his way to make the headlines. I have no other explanation for the shit he does.
2007-10-28 21:09:08
244.   Zack
234 Oh please. And Sarasota too. Trying to pin A-Rod opting out on Torre being fired is ridiculous. This has nothing to do with that. Congratulating A-Rod on "sticking it to the Steins?" Are you guys serious? Boras has been saying the same thing ALL SEASON, Torre's (not being fired) REJECTION OF THE CONTRACT OFFERED TO HIM did not make A-Rod suddenly realize that he should opt out. Its negotiating. Boras is calling Cashman's bluff, and it will either work or it won't. But don't think he can be replaced, because he can't. Period.

And besides, if you all are really so convinced that Torre was that special and that players really are only interested in playing for him a) Torre isn't coaching anywhere else at the moment and b) do you really want players like that on your team? That are loyal to the man rather than the organization? B/c screw that, if the players are really like that then good riddance, clean house and start over with the kids who aren't so arrogant and self-important to think such things...

2007-10-28 21:09:51
245.   marc
236 I don't know what you mean by last year or what it has to do with anything. This year is when all these people become FA and Arod as well these other potential FAs have been very happy with Torre.
2007-10-28 21:09:59
246.   yankz
Via Pete:

"This is what A-Rod said the night the Yankees clinched:

"This feels like home. It's hard to believe that I played for another two organizations. So much has happened to me here – adversity, some success – that I feel like anything but New York feels weird for me now.""

What a punch in the gut. I can't believe I fell for it, just like they did in Seattle and Texas.

2007-10-28 21:11:43
247.   Mattpat11
So, what moronic thing will the Yankees do in coming weeks to make this worse?
2007-10-28 21:12:06
248.   Ramone
234 Until a-Rod writes his tell-all autobiography (and even then) it will be impossible to know how, if at all, A-Rod weighed the managerial situation in his decision. My gut tells me not much. For one thing, A-Rod knew Torre was on the hook. If A-Rod really wanted Torre back, he easily could have made a statement defending him, as Mo did.
2007-10-28 21:12:39
249.   dianagramr
Varitek stuck the Series-clinching baseball in his back pocket after the strikeout. I wonder if Minky will be calling him to offer advice.
2007-10-28 21:14:12
250.   weeping for brunnhilde
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2007-10-28 21:15:09
251.   Ramone
243 Yeah, he goes out of his way to have his marital infidelities splashed all over the newspaper.

Remind me to think of you when I wonder why A-Rod left.

2007-10-28 21:15:18
252.   yankz
This feels worse than 2004, game 7. At least then I thought "There's always next year."
2007-10-28 21:15:33
253.   Mattpat11
246 Much like, after 2003, it was amazing in retrospect that we could fall for Roger's line of bullshit after he did it to Boston and Toronto.
2007-10-28 21:15:47
254.   weeping for brunnhilde
247 Oh, for God's sake, don't ask.

This is all wrong.

2007-10-28 21:15:57
255.   cult of basebaal
well ... at least this is going to be an interesting off season ...
2007-10-28 21:16:06
256.   51cq24
245 last year, after torre batted arod 8th and also collaborated with verducci in that article, there was widespread speculation that arod wanted torre fired in place of piniella. now you are speculating that he wanted torre back so much that he opted out of his contract because torre is no longer here.
2007-10-28 21:16:18
257.   Zack
I can't fathom that the ratings for this horribly boring WS were very high...
2007-10-28 21:16:58
258.   marc
244 I'm not just saying this in hindsight. I said the same thing was a severe danger before any of this happened now. Tell me, exactly how many of these FA's did you hear saying I'll come back if Joe is fired? Zero. But virtually all of them expressed the opposite to one degree or another. Everybody always talks about how tough it is to manage a team of super-rich primadonnas. Well Joe had almost all of them feeling loyal to him.
2007-10-28 21:18:16
259.   Zack
And I have no doubt that this doesn't spell the end of the Yankees-A-Rod saga, but even if he does come back, he's managed to once again make himself look like an ass. He has taken all the good will he built up and blown it all in one move. Should he return, he'll have to earn it all over again.

I just don't get what hes thinking, unless he is really that desperate to get out of NYC, which just doesn't seem likely...

2007-10-28 21:18:48
260.   yankz
258 What kind of douchebag would go out of his way to say "I'll be here whether Joe gets a new contract or not!" ??

The Blame not hiring Torre thing ONLY works if you believe Boras when he says Arod didn't want to come back to a team in flux. And again, I don't.

2007-10-28 21:19:03
261.   51cq24
251 yes, it's all because of the fans. it isn't because arod is a greedy ass, it's because fans booed him last year when he was striking out in almost every big at bat.
2007-10-28 21:20:14
262.   Zack
258 I haven't heard a single FA say that because Torre is fired they aren't coming back. I also have heard all of them say they would like to return as much as they want to test the market
2007-10-28 21:20:42
263.   yankz
259 That's the only explanation I can see. He probably won't get more money. Cano/Melky/everyone else weren't worth it. He and his wife hated the city that much, I guess.

I think he's gone. Negotiate AFTER opting out? That's the equivalent of saying "Sure I'll stay, but only for many millions more."

2007-10-28 21:20:47
264.   monkeypants
244 Perfectly articulated.

The excuse that he's leaving because he doesn't know if Mo/Jorge will be his teammates is bullshit too. If he leaves, he won't really know who his teammates will be either.

I am still of the opinion that he is not necessarily gone. If he opts out, it is as you say to call the Yankees' bluff. The Yankees may not negotiate with him, in which case he'll have a heck of a time matching what he could have gotten for staying. Or, the Yankees will relent and negotiate--and they may be able to cut a deal that costs them no more than what they were offering in the first place (despite losing Texas' 20+ million in remaining pay).

Now, if ARod had planned to leave all along, then there was nothing the team could have done. In that case, the Torre/Mo/Jorge line is an extra red herring.

But as I said earlier this year, the whole team revolves around the ARod decision. If he is really gone, then the team has much greater clarity on the direction in the next couple of years.

2007-10-28 21:21:04
265.   yankz
263 That was poorly worded, the second part, I hope people get my gist.
2007-10-28 21:22:37
266.   yankz
261 You think he has a guaranteed contract somewhere, for more than the Yankees will give him? I'm not so sure. And that's the only way the "greedy bastard" explanation fits. I think it's, he just couldn't handle the fickle fans/press anymore.
2007-10-28 21:22:53
267.   Mattpat11
251 No, he just walks around Toronto with his whore thinking nothings going to come of it.

I can't find any other reason why he gives an interview with Sports Illustrated accusing the fans of racism and basically calling his teammates mean fucks.

I don't know what would possess the man to tell the AP that he's working out why everyone is taking their kids to school.

I don't know why any sane man would do any of that. I do know it all put Alex Rodriguez squarely back in the spotlight.

2007-10-28 21:23:32
268.   cult of basebaal
the whole "team in flux" thing is horseshit ... just more scott boras blather ... if the SF Giants offer A-Rod 40x10, that's where he'll go, the fact that the giants won't sniff the post-season for 5 years in their division with their farm system doesn't matter a whit ...
2007-10-28 21:25:11
269.   marc
256 Who the hell gives a crap about last year? This is this year and this is when everyone was becoming free agents. Are you telling me Arod didn't became very comfortable and even happy with the team and Joe? Last year the fans were booing him incessantly and he didn't have his head as well as swing in shape like he did this year. Last year's irrelevant. I don't give a crap about when he was 6 years old either. I cared about this year when all these crucial FA's including Arod were on the line. And this year virtually all of them from Arod to Mo and on wanted to play for Torre next year.
2007-10-28 21:25:27
270.   51cq24
ok i have to go do some work, but everyone calm down a little.

1. red sox win the world series. ok, it's 26-7 now. we'll have to deal with the sox being glorified for a little while. well, if anyone cares to dig under the arod and girardi headlines.

2. arod opts out. we won 4 championships without him in the 90s. without any player of his caliber. his numbers are irreplaceable. that we know. but he hasn't brought us a championship. he hasn't even performed well in the postseason. you can chalk it up to small sample size, but we all can see that the pressure clearly gets to him. we do not need him. but it will indeed be interesting to see what we do without him.

fucking, fucking bugs.

2007-10-28 21:26:44
271.   yankz
270 Isn't it 26-8 :(

Also, MAKING the playoffs is the tough part.

2007-10-28 21:26:51
272.   Mattpat11
254 Oh come on. Last year when we lost out on Matsuzaka, we signed Igawa. Its fun to see what we'll do in some perverted sense of damage control this year.

There has to be some mediocrity having a career year that we can foolishly acquire! Lets figure out who it is.

2007-10-28 21:29:00
273.   yankz
Boras: "The lines of communication for us are open," he said. "Our position is that we have told New York all along that we will continue discussions with them. Alex enjoyed playing in New York. He played well there. He was comfortable there."

Seriously, go fuck yourself.

2007-10-28 21:29:30
274.   JL25and3
I'll give Boras credit for this: he's managed to upstage the World Series and tomorrow's announcement of a new Yankee manager.

I wonder if they'll even do it tomorrow. Can you imagine what the press conference will be like?

2007-10-28 21:30:19
275.   yankz
274 99% of the questions will, no matter when it happens, be about the team post Arod. "How will you handle the loss, Joe?"
2007-10-28 21:30:32
276.   thelarmis
271 i think it is 26-7...
2007-10-28 21:31:31
277.   51cq24
266 i wouldn't say "greedy bastard" because that's probably a little too accurate. greedy ass. and i'm almost 100% certain that he is doing this to get more money, whether it is ultimately from the yankees or another team.

271 i think 7. and we also made the postseason those years (and 5 others).

2007-10-28 21:32:31
278.   JL25and3
267 I don't like inferring motives and making character judgments on flimsy evidence. I don't know why he did some of those things, but I'm not sure how you go from "I don't know" to "then it must be..."

I'm also sick to death of it after two years of pseudo-psychoanalyzing Rodriguez.

2007-10-28 21:34:55
279.   yankz
277 They had Tino at 1B, and excellent pitching. They don't have Tino at 1B, and the pitching is Mo, Wang, and a bunch of rookies. I'm not too optimistic right now.
2007-10-28 21:36:10
280.   51cq24
279 that is true. i'm not trying to say we are as good as the 98 yankees right now without arod, but just that we can certainly win without him.
2007-10-28 21:37:21
281.   JL25and3
I'm guessing that Boras clients won't be getting any more opt-out clauses from now on.
2007-10-28 21:37:45
282.   nemecizer
Well, this isn't good news about A-Rod. But 270 has a point, we won 3 World Series in a row without a player of A-Rod's caliber.

Still, this is a dark day.

And the fucker did it on my birthday!

2007-10-28 21:38:27
283.   Mattpat11
I wonder how much the Yankees will pay for Lowell's annual second half swoon.
2007-10-28 21:40:28
284.   JL25and3
280 It's not a question of whether a team can win without Rodriguez. Every World Series champion in baseball history has won without him.

But the more pertinent question is: how many teams win after losing the best player in the league, far and away the best player on the team?

2007-10-28 21:40:30
285.   thelarmis
282 happy birthday!
2007-10-28 21:40:48
286.   monkeypants
280 Of course a team can win without him--that is empirically true. But then, when the "dynasty" won, they had one of the top three players in the league at their position at C, SS, and CF. The notion that those teams won with great pitching, a bunch of lunchbox bloaks on offense, and no superstars is a bit misleading. I know you are not arguing that precisely. Still, ARod is for the Yankees now what, say Jeter was in 1999 or Bernie in 1998. It is indeed very hard to replace that kind of production at a single position.
2007-10-28 21:40:56
287.   Ramone
267 He probably thought nothing would come of it because nothing comes of it for any other professional athlete who does exactly the same thing. Again, if you think it is because others are more discrete, you are quite naive.

I'll be the first to admit that A-Rod has said some dumb things. But hardly in proportion to the criticism that he gets thrown his way. I didn't want to see him leave, but I'm not surprised. There are a lot of stupid Yankee fans nowadays.

As for him being an egomaniac, get real. Great players have egos. Big egos. DiMaggio insisted on being introduced as "baseball's greatest living player". Ego? Reggie was "the straw that stirs the drink." Ego? Who gives a sh-t? They were winners.

2007-10-28 21:40:59
288.   yankz
Mike Lowell's 2007 first half OPS: .869
second half: .889
2007-10-28 21:42:22
289.   Mattpat11
288 contract year. The Yankees favorite kind.
2007-10-28 21:42:57
290.   yankz
289 Hey, backtracking is awesome!
2007-10-28 21:44:15
291.   monkeypants
287 I heard Babe Ruth was known for his modesty.
2007-10-28 21:44:44
292.   Vandelay Industries
272 Exactly. Now playing the 1996-2000 New York Yankees: The Boston Red Sox.
2007-10-28 21:45:59
293.   Ramone
291 Ruth? Did he play for the Senators? Ya gotta love those small-market players. Real down-to-earth types.
2007-10-28 21:46:30
294.   yankz
287 And Arod is MUCH less outwardly a cocky prick than those guys.
2007-10-28 21:50:27
295.   Mattpat11
290 That was sort of my point. The Yankees tend to completely overlook a man's career in favor of OMG WHAT JUST HAPPENED.

Hey, if you want to follow the philosophy that netted the Yankees Wright, Pavano, Womack, Farnsworth and seemingly countless others, be my guest.

I'll look at the guy that on his career, loses 80 points of OPS in the second half, almost all of it slugging (his OBP more or less stays put at sub .350) and think that I've read this book before.

2007-10-28 21:53:21
296.   yankz
295 Where the fuck did I advocate them signing Lowell?

I'm just following the trend of calling you out when you assert something that isn't 100% true.

2007-10-28 21:54:45
297.   marc
I see some here are in complete sour grapes mode now by some bizarre logic blaming Arod for the paparazzi. I will make one more point about Torre for anyone still around. It's not just that Torre got fired. It's almost more the way he got fired and what it said to the players. Cutting someone's pay when things are going well is a sign of disrespect that the players obviously know well. It said to them there's a new bunch in town and from now on they'll be dealing with this kind of organization that's moved into the hands of the clueless nasty and vindictive. When have you seen a guy like Mo suddenly indicate he has no special reason to stay on the Yankees as he did when Joe was canned. It became a raw wound that said these people are become suddenly both stupid and not worthy of anything approaching loyalty. I a fan gets angry at the clumsy stupid dealings of a Randy Levine, how do think a player feels knowing this is who he's going to be dealing with from now on if he remains with the team?
2007-10-28 21:56:19
298.   Ramone
294 I see A-Rod as more of a clueless, foot-in-mouth player than an arrogant jerk. My biggest problem has never been with what he says. It was with his choice to take cash in Texas over winning in Seattle. Plus his contract killed any hope that Texas had to compete.

But I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt when he came to NY. Maybe he learned his lesson.

My problem with Boras' bullshit about Mo, Posada, and Pettite is that it shows that A-Rod didn't learn his lesson.

Any (smaller-market) team that offers A-Rod a larger contract than the Rangers-subsidized one offered by the Yankees will never be able to sompete over the next ten years. If Anaheim wants to pay A-Rod $300 million, good luck getting back to the WS.

2007-10-28 21:57:00
299.   Sarasota
The dark ages are upon us. No one wants to play for Hank and Levine
2007-10-28 22:02:35
300.   Ramone
297 Yeah, I long for the days when The Boss treated his players and managers with respect and loyalty. Oh, wait!
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2007-10-28 22:05:06
301.   Nick from Washington Heights
I don't think Levine and Hank did a good job handling the Torre situation but to point to that as the reason for A-Rod's decision is misguided. Boras's stated reason for A-Rod's decision is a transparent lie. A-Rod wanted out of NY regardless of the Torre situation.
2007-10-28 22:05:41
302.   monkeypants
299 are being sarcastic, I hope.
2007-10-28 22:06:24
303.   Sarasota
seriously.....I'm gonna miss A Rod. He was exciting. I just hope we get our hands on pitching.......'cause this Red Sox winning is working my nerves.......
2007-10-28 22:07:07
304.   Mattpat11
Someone on another board I go to made a great point about the Rockies. The first two series, they had that nifty TBS base stealers lead logo. With out it, they were thrown for a loop and just wandered off the bases all series.


2007-10-28 22:08:37
305.   yankz
I really thought he had learned. Just shut up and play, and you'll be the biggest star in the city. Guess that wasn't enough.
2007-10-28 22:10:47
306.   joejoejoe
If ARod opts out look for Wilson Betemit to be the everyday 3B next year. Hank Blalock and Troy Glaus are free agents in '08 and they are better options moving foward than Lowell (who Boston will likely resign).

One move I'd consider if Arod opts out is Barry Bonds as part-time DH and trade Giambi, B-prospects and $$$ for somebody else's bad contracts (preferably RH hitting bad contracts). Bring back The Bronx Zoo. I can live with Barry's BS if he brings his 1.045 OPS (170 OPS+).

Bring back scruff and eye black. I want Jeter to grow a beard like Dick Tidrow or the evil Spock in that one episode of Star Trek. The '08 Yankees to be a dysfunctional bunch of red asses who channel Joba, not Yoda.

2007-10-28 22:11:40
307.   51cq24
284 mariners won 116 games in 2001.

286 of course i agree with you. but we do still have jeter, who is a little older but still a great hitter (and no worse defensively than he was in the late 90s). we still have posada, who is getting old but put up better numbers last year than ever before. we have the best 2nd baseman in the league. and i think it's possible that in the next few years our pitching will be better than it's ever been. so there are still at least some reasons to be optimistic.

2007-10-28 22:12:08
308.   Ramone
305 I have no proof of this, but I also suspect Boras may have convinced A-Rod that the Yankees are bluffing (I don't think they are) and that opting out does not = leaving NY.
2007-10-28 22:13:07
309.   JeremyM
I think Pete Abraham nailed it: "One thing for certain: We now know the answer to the question of who is the biggest phony in sports history."

I was rooting for him and thought he was a decent guy. I'm thinking I was wrong. There's a reason he's always flying here into Omaha to meet with Warren Buffet: he's all about the dollar and then some. All he wants right now is some record breaking deal again.

2007-10-28 22:14:21
310.   51cq24
297 299 will you give it a break? this reasoning (if you can call it that) is laughable. maybe the new ownership will be bad. maybe it won't be. but what are you actually saying? that if steinbrenner were still his old self joe torre would still be managing?
2007-10-28 22:15:17
311.   Nick from Washington Heights
I vote for taking Adrian Beltre off the M's hands. He's a spectacular fielder, and, of course, has big potential at the bat.
2007-10-28 22:16:04
312.   Mattpat11
307 Every time I get optimistic something stupid happens.
2007-10-28 22:16:57
313.   bobtaco
Since Arod has arrived in NY, the Sox have now won 2 World Series. Does anyone believe if Arod had gone to Boston and Manny had gone to Texas or wherever that the Red Sox would have won more WS? Yeah, me either.
2007-10-28 22:17:20
314.   yankz
311 No, he doesn't. He got on base less than 32% of the time last year. That's dismal.
2007-10-28 22:17:31
315.   51cq24
how about wang for longoria?
2007-10-28 22:17:32
316.   Sarasota
310 Torre would have been gone last year for sure (probably before) if the Boss was his old self........ But Levine and Hank are not the answer....the signals/speak coming out of Tampa are not encouraging.
2007-10-28 22:17:54
317.   yankz
Man, it wouldn't feel this bad if there was someone worth spending that money on.
2007-10-28 22:18:05
318.   Ramone
The silver lining for Cashman, no doubt, will be the simple pleasure of not returning Boras' calls.
2007-10-28 22:18:37
319.   Mattpat11
311 I don't think this team needs to doll out 24 million dollars for that kind of production and that baggage.
2007-10-28 22:18:46
320.   yankz
Man, I wonder if Cash asked Arod if he would waive his NTC in July. Probably not.
2007-10-28 22:18:48
321.   Nick from Washington Heights
Well, he did hit 48 homers one year. That does show some kind of potential. No? Anyway, reading USS Mariner, a very good site, has gotten me high on the guy.
2007-10-28 22:19:45
322.   SF Yanks
As shitty as this shit is, I'm looking at it like this: We now have a boatload of money to spend. If nothing fits, keep the money, and the payroll drops. But also, this could be a very good opportunity to put some of that money towards an ace (if there are any available or any that we can bribe away). The pain would be considerably less if there is a Peavy/Santana type in our rotation next year.

Not likely but ya never know. We just need to pray that Levine and the Steinies don't fuck this up and sign as has-been ace.

2007-10-28 22:20:21
323.   Mattpat11
321 He seems to be suffering from Bret Boone disease after that 48 HR year
2007-10-28 22:21:18
324.   51cq24
317 you mean a 3b? we can certainly spend it on quite a few other things. maybe santana next year?
2007-10-28 22:21:52
325.   Ramone
316 What signals? All indications are that this is the Brian Cashman show and that Hank and Hal wll defer to the "baseball people".
2007-10-28 22:22:02
326.   yankz
321 How can you look at his numbers and think of that as an outlier? He was below average the 3 years before, and the year after. His next best year was 2000, with an OPS+ of 114. '04 was the only year he slugged above .500. I just don't think he's worth anything we have worth trading.
2007-10-28 22:22:52
327.   yankz
326 should be "not think of that as an outlier"
2007-10-28 22:23:55
328.   JeremyM
The Post actually has a great write-up, talking about how A-Rod skipped the Hank Aaron deal today and then makes this announcement that overshadows the World Series. I was very wrong about this dude, I'll admit it.
2007-10-28 22:24:24
329.   Sarasota
325 ...well thats what you say when things go wrong (or u think might go wrong) and you don't want the heat so you can fire that persons ass as a remedy....
2007-10-28 22:25:51
330.   51cq24
i thought scott brosius was swinging the bat pretty well on old timers' day.
2007-10-28 22:26:44
331.   Sarasota
328 ........Jeter is going to love that article
2007-10-28 22:28:24
332.   Mattpat11
331 I think Vaccaro nailed it.
2007-10-28 22:30:09
333.   51cq24
hey i think this probably helps our chances of getting mo, posada and andy back!
2007-10-28 22:32:55
334.   JeremyM
332 I thought this was the best line: "Sure. As if the Yankees are suddenly going to embrace the ways of the Pirates, Royals and Devil Rays. Beautiful. A prefabricated phony clear to the end." I'm very curious to see where the big deal is going to come from.
2007-10-28 22:33:18
335.   51cq24
wang melky and betances for crawford and longoria.
2007-10-28 22:34:13
336.   Ramone
333 Bingo.
2007-10-28 22:36:19
337.   yankz
Aren't we jumping to conclusions when we blame Arod for not going to the HA Award? What if his daughter was sick or something?
2007-10-28 22:39:51
338.   monkeypants
313 I'm not sure they would have won more than two, but I'm not convinced they would have won fewer than two, either.
2007-10-28 22:40:09
339.   51cq24
337 then he probably shouldn't have been discussing his contract with boras.
2007-10-28 22:41:17
340.   Mattpat11
337 Then he probably shouldn't have been worrying about his contract.
2007-10-28 22:41:30
341.   monkeypants
337 Moreover, who cares anyway?
2007-10-28 22:41:37
342.   Yankee Fan In Boston
rodriguez is dead to me now.

i hereby consider him 134ed.

here's to rebuilding.

...pass the scotch...

2007-10-28 22:42:08
343.   yankz
341 True dat. I'm going to assume he was out shooting puppies with bebe guns.
2007-10-28 22:42:24
344.   Mattpat11
337 I think it further kills this idea that A-Rod is this innocent deer that got eaten alive by New York.
2007-10-28 22:42:26
345.   monkeypants
339 240 Freaky.
2007-10-28 22:44:01
346.   Ramone
337 I have been a huge defender of A-Rod. I didn' t like him before he came here. I didn't want him to come here. But once he came I was impressed that he switched positions, tried to fit in, and acted like a team player.

Sure he played poorly in the post-season, but at least he cared enough to choke on the pressure.

That aside, I cannot believe what a trifecta of fuckups A-Rod just hit. He blew off the HA award, upstaged both the World Series and the naming of a new Yankee manager, and topped it off by giving a transparently lame explanation for his decision to opt-out.

Excuse me if I don't give him the benefit of the doubt that his daughter was in the Intensive Care ward.

2007-10-28 22:46:09
347.   yankz
346 Yes yes, please see 343
2007-10-28 22:48:46
348.   Mattpat11
346 I'd like to say I can't believe it, but, like I said, in my opinion, everything A-Rod does is for the purpose of putting A-Rod in the spotlight. So when he does something like this, its disappointing, annoying, maybe a little shocking at first, but when you sit down and look at this man's history, it really shouldn't blow you away.
2007-10-28 22:49:09
349.   51cq24
maybe the mitchell report will name arod, beckett, papi, and even schilling and clear pettitte's name at the same time!
2007-10-28 22:49:17
350.   monkeypants
346 It is shocking, SHOCKING that A-Rod blew off the HA Award, a time honored award that harkens back to 1999, when it was created as a PR stunt.
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2007-10-28 22:51:20
351.   Mattpat11
350 Combined with upstaging the World Series, which has been in existence for over a hundred years, and taking all the focus off the new Yankees manager?
2007-10-28 22:51:52
352.   yankz
The scariest part is he could go to Boston, where he would hit 65 home runs in that POS stadium.
2007-10-28 22:53:35
353.   thelarmis
olney's got a blog up taking shots at a-rod being bigger than the game...

man, and to think how excited we all were just a measly month ago. what a shitty october this has been... : /

2007-10-28 22:53:50
354.   rabid stan
352 I say he matches Manny's production.

Hey, we get draft picks, right?

2007-10-28 22:54:11
355.   monkeypants
350 Oh, I'll grant you the timing of the announcement was calculated for maximum impact--this is Osama Bin Boras at his finest. But I just can't dredge up much moral indignation for a player missing the Hank Aaron Award ceremony.
2007-10-28 22:54:48
356.   Mattpat11
352 And if he winds up getting overshadowed by Manny or Ortiz, I'm sure he'll try to pull some bullshit on them in a few years.
2007-10-28 22:55:27
357.   monkeypants
354 Good question about draft picks. Wasn't this clarified earlier in the season by MLB? I can't recall.
2007-10-28 22:56:45
358.   rabid stan
357 You need to be a lawyer these days.
2007-10-28 22:57:39
359.   monkeypants
356 Manny is gone from Boston in year anyway. Ortiz, on the other hand...
2007-10-28 22:58:26
360.   rabid stan
359 ...will collapse like Mo Vaughn?
2007-10-28 22:59:55
361.   Mattpat11
355 I think its Alex Rodriguez just as much as its Scott Boras.

People aren't upset that he blew off the Hank Aaron award itself. Its that Alex Rodriguez has decided he's bigger than baseball.

2007-10-28 22:59:55
362.   51cq24
353 i wonder how the media would have reacted if only arod has said he were opting out because the yankees' offer was an insult.
2007-10-28 23:06:12
363.   51cq24
353 i wonder how the media would have reacted if only arod had said he were opting out because the yankees' offer was an insult.
2007-10-28 23:07:38
364.   51cq24
6 minutes apart?
2007-10-28 23:07:59
365.   monkeypants
361 I'm not absolving A-Rod. But he hires an agent for a reason, and I have to believe that Boras came up with the particular PR tactics. Of course, A-Rod will have agreed to any of Boras' suggestions.

360 I suspect as much, but the way the Sox luck has run the last couple of years, who knows.

2007-10-28 23:12:59
366.   yankz
Here's the Olney article:

"Somebody will buy into A-Rod, of course. He's an extraordinary player. The cost will be hundreds of millions, and the heart and soul, of his next franchise."

I'm still hoping to wake up and find out this is all some kind of fucked up joke.

2007-10-28 23:13:34
367.   51cq24
353 i've never seen olney rip a player like that.

i hope i'm there the next time arod comes to play in yankee stadium. i think the booing will be unprecedented.

2007-10-28 23:14:01
368.   Mattpat11
He's a less charming Roger Clemens.
2007-10-28 23:15:26
369.   51cq24
hey whatever happened to that announcement clemens said he was going to make at the end of the season? are we to expect it soon?
2007-10-28 23:15:43
370.   yankz
367 I agree, I was thinking about that. He's now more of a "public enemy" than any Red Sox.
2007-10-28 23:16:04
371.   yankz
369 "Four more years" ?
2007-10-28 23:17:40
372.   Mattpat11
369 If Roger said he was going to do something, he was probably lying. So I wouldn't expect an announcement anytime soon.
2007-10-28 23:20:05
373.   thelarmis
371 Warrior Soul! anybody here from NYC remember them???

yeah, olney took some good, albeit well-deserved, shots at a-rod.

2007-10-28 23:20:08
374.   JeremyM
372 I think he's referring to what George said to him that made him resign with the Yankees. He supposedly was going to share that at the end of the year.

You know, I'm not that bummed. As long as we keep Po and Mo and Andy.

2007-10-28 23:20:56
375.   yankz
God, I hope Melky and Cano took notes during those workouts.
2007-10-28 23:23:59
376.   yankz
NYT, with Steinbrenner quotes:

And with a final "Fuck yourselves, Afraud and Boras," I'm off to bed. See you all tomorrow.

2007-10-28 23:26:15
377.   yankz
"In an interview before Boras's announcement, Steinbrenner said he would try to impress on Rodriguez the value of winning titles and making his legacy as a Yankee. He related a story of talking to Joe DiMaggio, who told him his championships would not have been half as meaningful if he had won them for any other team.

"Does he want to go into the Hall of Fame as a Yankee," Steinbrenner said, "or a Toledo Mud Hen?""

OK, I like Hank.

2007-10-28 23:58:38
378.   BleedingPinstripes
Wow, Arod is a money grubbing whore. I can not wait untill he returns the Stadium, it will be like Rocker @ Shea (minus batteries hopefully). I think in the end this is a good move for the team, the 90 mill that we save will go a long way for a nice future.
2007-10-29 00:05:06
379.   theblastphemous
I can't believe A-Rod/Boras would do this. The timing, the reasoning, all wrong. He won't stop being a great player, but imagine the grief this guy will probably head to pasture with? Either Rodriguez is all ego all the time or Scott Boras is a his RELIGION.
2007-10-29 00:16:06
380.   rabid stan
377 A-Rod showed he didn't have much of a sense for the history of the game when he passed Gehrig earlier this season.

In the postgame, after hitting his 494th, a reporter had to tell him he broke Gehrig's mark.

2007-10-29 00:25:10
381.   theblastphemous
Truer Words...

"After we were eliminated on Saturday, the media asked me a lot of questions regarding my future in New York -- whether I want to leave, or if I will be traded, etc. I will tell you what I told them: I am 100 percent committed to being a Yankee now and in the future. I don't want to play anywhere else. I never have (and never will) run away from the responsibility I have to this team. I believe I am part of the solution to winning a championship here. I want to finish my career in New York."

2007-10-29 00:46:38
382.   Mattpat11
379 A little column a, little column b?
2007-10-29 03:25:07
383.   NC Highlander
I was one of the ones that didn't boo Arod. I was forgiving, gave him a chance. Tried to be patient because I knew he was good.

But this is unforgivable. Where is team pride these days?

The only loyalty left in baseball is with the fans. I feel sick.

2007-10-29 03:34:33
384.   Al Rogers
Today's Front Covers

ARod serves divorce papers & Dodgers show Torre some leg.

p.s. The Yanks sent out an e-mail at 1:50 in the morning, informing us that ARod opted-out. Wow. They send stuff all the time, but not in the middle of the nite. I feel bad for the copy writer and graphics guy who had to come-in on a late offseason nite.

2007-10-29 03:54:25
385.   JL25and3
383 Team loyalty was always mostly a fan thing. It doesn't bother me a bit that Rodriguez doesn't have team loyalty; he's a professional, not a fan.

Nor am I all that upset that it's a venal decision. Business is business. The opt-out clause was part of the contract, and the Yankees always knew that. Thanks to Texas, they had Rodriguez at a bargain-basement price for four years; now, thanks to Texas, they no longer have him.

Two things do bother me (aside from losing the Yankees' best player). One is the pack of lies that we've been fed, from Rodriguez's insistence that he wants to finish his career as a Yankee, to Boras's patently bullshit explanation of why he opted out.

The other is that I still can't believe that Boras and Rodriguez would make such an obviously misguided decision. After what he went through in Texas and for the first few years in NY, you'd really think they'd know better. There is every reason for him to stay in NY, and every reason for him not to go anywhere else.

2007-10-29 04:00:00
386.   Al Rogers
Buster Olney says Boras informed Sports Illustrated of the move BEFORE he informed C-Money.

And he informed C-Money via a TEXT MESSAGE, not even a phone call!

2007-10-29 04:09:24
387.   Al Rogers

don't forget his statements on how much he "loved" NYC and the uniform, etc.

Also, why leave without hearing the offer - a guaranteed 5-year extension at $30 million per year, that takes him to age 40, is not an insult.

And he announced the decision during the 3nd inning of Sunday's game, in hopes of denying oxygen to the firestorm this decision ignites.

2007-10-29 04:24:28
388.   Al Rogers
ya know the Commissioner said NO major decision during the Series. Even if we came to a decision on our next manager, we couldn't announce it without permission.

Here ARod steps all over the Series finale, and we'll have to postpone our managerial announcement - there's no way that competes with this story.

2007-10-29 04:32:56
389.   Sliced Bread
Not surprised in the least this morning.
It was not a good marriage.
His wife hated it here, and now he can pursue his personal goals in a baseball town where the mood swings aren't as violent.
Yeah, he handled the quickie divorce like a douche, but that doesn't surprise me either.
The Yanks sure are going to miss his production, but I'm glad the team isn't locked into all that money, and all those years -- especially all those years.

Thanks for everything, A-Rod, and thanks for nothing.

2007-10-29 05:37:23
390.   OldYanksFan
"Boras said during a telephone interview that Rodriguez made his choice because he was uncertain whether Mariano Rivera, Jorge Posada and Andy Pettitte would return to the Yankees. Boras said it became clear that the others wouldn't make a decision by Rodriguez's deadline to opt out -- 10 days after the World Series."

This is a REAL shitty move by ARod. Of course, it's not near as shitty as DARY's Torregate. I think ARod sees what I see: this organization is falling apart. No manager. No Mo yet, no Po yet, Andy is sitting and now ARod is gone.

ARod had a good look at the 'new look Yankees' without Torre, and with DARY flapping it's gums.

I hate him, but I'm not sure I can blame him.
NOW Truly, the Dynasty is over.
It came in with Torre and now leaves with Torre.
I just can't express how sick to my stomach I am.

2007-10-29 05:52:43
391.   Simone
390 You can't really believe that Alex left because the Yankees are in turmoil. You are thinking like a fan. Alex Rodriguez went to TEXAS for goodness sake for the money. The man chases the almighty dollar first and foremost. I suspect that he decided to opt out before the season even began. He is so insecure and needy, then all of the sudden he is confident and don't care when he comes into this season. Why? Because he decided that he was done and was going for the best offer on the table. He doesn't care who the manager is or who this teammates are anyway just as long as he is top dog and is making the big bucks. This doesn't make him a bad guy by any measure, just a business man.
2007-10-29 05:56:33
392.   RIYank
391 I agree, Simone, that he can't be leaving because of turmoil. If he were serious about that, the logical thing to do would be to wait a week and see how much resolves itself, instead of burning the bridge.

But if it's really all about the bucks, it seems to me he's making a mistake. (Although if I had to bet on whether RIYank or Scott Boras is a better predictor of the baseball labor market, I wouldn't bet on me.)

Why this timing? That's what I can't figure out. It seems like it must be calculated to get maximum exposure (announced during a WS broadcast, with the press primed by the story that the Yanks had come up with an offer). But how does that help either A-Rod or Boras?

2007-10-29 05:59:22
393.   RIYank
Another thing:
Mike Lowell, WS MVP.
Now, did A-Rod/Boras just damage Lowell's chances because Mike could have been the only available 3B this winter, or is it the opposite (because now the Yankees have to get into the bidding for Lowell)?
2007-10-29 06:03:13
394.   ChrisS
392 Especially considering that Posada and Rivera have stated that they would like to dip a toe into free agency (even if they fully intend to resign with the Yankees, I would recommend), which they can't do yet.

I don't mind him opting out, but to throw the organization under the bus on his way out is bullshit.

In any event, even subsidized as he was, this opens up the payroll even more.

2007-10-29 06:03:18
395.   3rd gen yankee fan
392 But how does that help either A-Rod or Boras?

Just guessing here, but maybe some less media-savvy team will be impressed by Team Boras' ability to grab the spotlight, no matter what's happening?

Perhaps they're trying to impress a west coast team, who apparently get less media attention than the east coast teams?

2007-10-29 06:03:35
396.   Yankee Fan In Boston
alright. after getting about 2 hours of sleep, repeatedly being awoken by impromptu celebratory civilian fireworks displays, tossing and turning, mulling the future of a once-great organization, i have decided to embrace today.

i urge you all to do the same.

let today wash over you. soak it in.

especially those of you who said that you took the string of playoff appearances for granted.

the lows are what make the highs so high.

remember today the next time the yankees do something great. it will only amplify the experience.


that said, today sucks, doesn't it?

2007-10-29 06:06:32
397.   joejoejoe
Adios ARod (from the Daily News):
"It's clear he didn't want to be a Yankee," Hank Steinbrenner told the Daily News last night. "He doesn't understand the privilege of being a Yankee on a team where the owners are willing to pay $200 million to put a winning product on the field.

"I don't want anybody on my team that doesn't want to be a Yankee."

2007-10-29 06:06:46
398.   ChrisS
393 They don't really have to. Betemit can play third. But, I never wanted to see Lowell gone when he was in AAA, and I wouldn't be upset if they brought him back (within reason).

And remember, A-Rod can still play SS.

2007-10-29 06:07:14
399.   Simone
392 I don't think that Alex is making a mistake. He will get paid exactly what he is demanding. Never underestimate the willngingness of baseball owners to pay lots of money when they want a prize. Look at all the huge contracts that got done last season that no one want thought was going to happen like Zito and Soriano. Hell, even Gil Meche cleaned up.

393 I'd be surprised if the Red Sox do anything more than inquire about A-Rod. They have stocked up on pitching by acquiring Dice-K and they have enough bats. They will probably re-sign Lowell who will use the Yankees as leverage to get the Red Sox to give him a better deal. The Yankees are the ones who have to scrunge around for a 3rd baseman, but if their young pitchers come into themselves, the Yankees will be fine.

2007-10-29 06:08:01
400.   Bronxer
396 Well put.

Give the Sox team and true fans their due. As you say, "the next time the yankees do something great. it will only amplify the experience".

Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2007-10-29 06:13:13
401.   RIYank
399 I think this is a different story, though, Simone.
First, there are only a very few possible players in this game. Dodgers, Angels, Cubs, maybe Red Sox -- but they have to be more careful about spending given their current payroll.

And, A-Rod is looking for eight years commitment. GMs who might be willing to swallow a very expensive three-year contract will choke on eight years $250M. Or $300M.

395 Boras' ability to grab the spotlight: good point. And maybe Boras wants to remind a lot of people about that, quite independent of Alex's negotiations.

2007-10-29 06:15:34
402.   Sliced Bread
Lowell's going to be looking for too many years. See what he wants, but if he insists on more than 3 years, pass.
Other options will come up, and if not,
the Yanks have done well with worse third basemen than Betemit.
2007-10-29 06:15:37
403.   Franl Leja
While the Tampa village idiots were still sparring in the media with the manager they had already gassed, they were so out of touch with their superstar that they apparently had no idea he had already closed the door on the "offer" they had yet to present. Sure ARod's a prima donna and his agent an utterly transparent liar, but our real problem is what it's been since the Red Sox were sold -- John Henry et al are smarter and more capable than the Steinbrenners and their retinue of hapless hangers-on.
2007-10-29 06:16:02
404.   OldYanksFan
"Alex Rodriguez went to TEXAS for goodness sake for the money"

1) Texas was his first BIG deal, when he was younger. Texas also said they were committed to win.
2) ARod accepted an offer from the Sox for a significant cut in pay.
3) ARod ALREADY had given up SS, to Derek Jeter no less, to come to the Yankees and WIN.
4) Almost ALL (multi-millionaire) Vets, including Bonds, are more concerned with winning a WS then a few extra million.
5) The Yankee's would have paid him as much as anyone. More. Being a Yankee makes indorsement deals more lucrative. Leaving NY will LOSE ARod money.
6) The Yankee 'turmoil' is not the issue in itself, it's a sign of what is to come. Torre is already gone. Maybe Bowa. Andy said he needed a month 'to think' EVEN though his elbow feels the BEST it has in years (what do you think that means). The Yankees, because of looking for a new manager, have NOT resigned Mo and Po (why wasn't that done ALREADY!. It could have been done in a day!)

The "turmoil" is simply and indicator of what is to come. The DARY let Torre go without having a replacement... knowing that Mo, Po and Andy were on the fence... know that ARod had to be dealth with.

NO PLAN!!!!!!!!!!!
The Yankees have NO FUCKING PLAN!!!!!!!!
It's obvious to everyone.
This franchise is falling apart, and we will get to Banter about it every day.

The Yankees are no longer 'the Team' to come to. You're not coming to be one of Torre's boys on a self propelled ship. You are instead going back in time to the 1980s, managerial musical chairs, and an incompetent FO.

The bottom line is Torregate showed everyone that the DARY does not have a plan or a clue.
Dysfunctional Accountants ruining/running the Yankees. Get it?

I don't know how good Cashman is... although he might be gone next year too. In an event, he will have to BE MAGIC to put us in contention this year.

Enjoy the PS headlines about the Sox, and other teams. You will be seeing more, for the next few years.

2007-10-29 06:16:46
405.   Sliced Bread
401 San Fran will also be in the mix.
2007-10-29 06:19:18
406.   Simone
401 I don't see the situations as different at all. There will be at least two owners who will end up bidding on Alex and that is all it takes. There were only 3 teams in on Zito and Soriano as I recall and just about no one made more than a bare minimum offer on Meche. I remember with Guerrero, the Os thought they had it all wrapped up and then the Angels came in last minute with the 6 year offer that he wanted. Can you imagine the pride issue with those rival fanbases if the Dodgers and Angels go after Alex? Moreno and McCourt would do what it took to sign Alex. He will get his $30 million per year. No doubt.
2007-10-29 06:19:57
407.   Knuckles
hey ca$h, we R opting out, LOLZ!
Sent from my Blackberry Wireless Handheld
2007-10-29 06:21:54
408.   Sliced Bread
407 heh. calling collect would have been more appropriate.
2007-10-29 06:22:55
409.   ms october
Well, I know most of this has been stated - I am not surprised he-opted out - but it is hard to get why he opted out the SECOND he could.

After 2004, the Red Sox (probably wisely) let pretty much all of their FAs go - will they do the same with Lowell and Schill this year? - obviously a decision on Lowell probably impacts the Yanks and ARod.

There has been floating of Cabrera or Beltre as possibilities - I would much rather the Yanks give up money than prospects, but Cashman will probably see what Florida and Seattle would want - but Cabrera would have to go on a major workout plan.

395 401 Is grabbing the spotlight really a plus? Part of what has dogged ARod is that he sucks all the oxygen out of the room and everything becomes about him.

398 I'm not so sure he can still play short.

2007-10-29 06:23:51
410.   ChrisS

Overreact much?

2007-10-29 06:24:39
411.   joejoejoe
Next year will be very different but it's not a dark day to see Alex Rodriguez opt out. Change makes things uncertain, not dark. It's ARod's right to opt out and I wish him good luck. The team now has Wilson Betemit at 3B and a giant pile of money where it used to have Alex Rodriguez. If Cashman can replace ARod with the equivalent of Pedro Feliz and lower the team ERA by half a run a game it's a wash and I'd take the better pitching in a short series any day of the week.

Over a 162 game season losing ARod and replacing him with an average 3B puts the Yankees offense on par with the Red Sox. That means they have to match the Red Sox pitching to compete for a World Series. That's as it should be. Now the trick is doing it.

2007-10-29 06:25:46
412.   Simone
404 Again, stop thinking like a fan. Age and business are not exclusive. Alex is a business man for whom the world doesn't revolve around the Yankees.
2007-10-29 06:37:06
413.   OldYanksFan
You folks are in denial.
You are blaming ARod instead of DARY.
In September, NY WAS INDEED the best place for ARod. The 2nd half Yankees were the best team in MLB, and 2008 only represented a better, more experienced Hughes, Joba and IPK. There was really no reason for anyone to leave. The talk by Mo and Po was just to get a few extra dollars. They were NOT going to leave Torre and the Yankees.

We were set up to usher is a new day. A combination of expensive, quality Vets and cheap, talented youth.

However, this was NOT enough for DARY.

I ask this: Why were Mo and Po not signed yet? Did DARY not know in April that their contracts were up? Are they STILL thinking about it? Did DARY not suspect that the re-signing of Mo and Po MIGHT effect ARod and Andy's thinking?

Did they not wonder if ARod leaving MIGHT effect Mo and Po and Andy?

Do YOU Banterers really believe they Yankees have a plan?

We are in Triage now people.

2007-10-29 06:40:52
414.   RIYank
405 The Giants, you're absolutely right. Almost a perfect fit, assuming they have that much money.
2007-10-29 06:41:57
415.   Nick from Washington Heights
is OldYanksFan Rob Gee? What's up with the acronym business?

Truly, you can't believe A-Rod and Boras were being sincere abut their supposed reasons for opting out. He wanted out. Fine. But it's not because he believed the Yanks wouldn't try to put a winner on the field.

2007-10-29 06:43:40
416.   ChrisS
413 Like when they have previously been free agents, both have stated that they were going to test free agency. Nothing wrong with that. That they can't file for free agency yet is why they haven't been resigned.

I think your love of Torre has seriously clouded your judgment.

2007-10-29 06:44:22
417.   Cru Jones
OldYanksFan could be right.
2007-10-29 06:46:42
418.   Sliced Bread
414 He's always said how much he loves that stadium and that city...
but I think the ring is still the thing for A-Rod, so I'm guessing he'll more likely go to a club that's closer to contending.
Cubs, Angels, Dodgers seem to be the frontrunners.
2007-10-29 06:47:37
419.   RIYank
406 Simone, those examples seem to me to support my position. None of those guys was looking for an 8-year commitment! We're talking about a contract that will pay a player $30M+ at the age of 41. Even free-spending GMs are apt to be very wary of doing something like that, since it can cripple your team for a long, long time if it doesn't go well. The Yankees are in a different situation. I don't believe the Dodgers or the BoSox can afford the hit if Alex turns out to be nothing more than a decent DH in 2011.
I shouldn't say "I don't believe", since who knows what could happen? But I think there's a lot of doubt about it -- you think "no doubt"!
2007-10-29 06:47:40
420.   ms october
OYF - I think my comments over the last few weeks have shown I am not a big fan of much of the FO and get where you are coming from with DARY.
But I think connecting ARod opting out to the transition as strongly as you are is not accurate. I think it is clear ARod marches to his and Boras's beat - he does not really give a f* about anyone but himself (which is his right - this is a business and he is entitled to do that - but let's call a spade a spade). I don't think he cares about MO, Posado, and Petite - that is just cover for him and Boras.
I hope the FO turns their attention to Mo and Jorge now and they get re-signed and we move on. Short term losing ARod is a big blow - but long-term it has the potential to work itself out.
I am cautiosly skeptical of how things will play out - but I am not ready to think the skiy is falling.
I am not a huge Hank fan, but he made some good points in the papers today - and he stated that he will never let the Ynaks go 16yrs between titles again - if nothing else, Hank knows the value of the Yanks and thus his inheritance increases when they are winning.
2007-10-29 06:48:13
421.   joejoejoe
413 Don't worry. Be happy.

Philip Hughes, age 21
Joba Chamberlain, age 21
Ian Kennedy, age 22
Melky Cabrera, age 22
Robinson Cano, age 24
Chris Britton, age 24
Wilson Betemit, age 25
Chien-Ming Wang, age 27

2007-10-29 06:48:24
422.   williamnyy23
404 Man, you're taking this hard. After reading your post, it's hard to imagine that the Yankees ever existed without Arod (or made it to 6 World Series). Clearly, losing Arod is a significant blow because it will impossible to replace his production with one player. However, it isn't the end of the world scenario you depicted.

For starters, Arod was guaranteed to repeat his 2007 numbers. In his tenure, he alternated 130 OPS+ seasons with 170 OPS+ seasons. Despite the disparity, the Yankees were able to win regardless. So, in reality, the Yankees don't have to replace Arod's monster career year production. Also, the Yankees don't have to replace Arod with one player. By saving $30mn, the Yankees can spread the wealth, which is exactly what the Mariners did when Arod walked away from them.

Hopefully, Cashman is a more level headed than you right now, and realizes there are plenty of opportunities to position the team for improvement next season (i.e., do better than winning a wild card and bowing out in the first round). For starters, he could call the Marlins and talk about Cabrera. Migeul Tejada is also likely to be available (and has said he'd be willing to move to 3B).

Sure, this isn't a banner day for the Yankees, but I see a lot more hope than you do.

2007-10-29 06:48:52
423.   alterity
413 If ARod was really concerned about the state of the Yankees, why didn't he at least listen to what they had to say? why not let them announce their new manager today or tomorrow and then go from there? why not listen to their plan? May, just maybe, because it doesn't matter a damn bit? Or because he knows what it is already? I'm going with the first choice. And "we" are not in triage. "We" are fans, and "we" can get our underwear in a twist all "we" want, but what "we" do or don't has no impact on what the Yankees are going to do. The way I see is that ARod and Boras were looking for any reason to opt out. That's their right. But don't make it sound like the yankees were not going to try to take care of him. Do you really think that they wouldn't have told him their plan if he had asked?

As for the other stuff: Torre wasn't going to be around forever. Managers come and go, so don't act like taking a couple of weeks to find a new one is the worst thing that ever happened.

And yes, no doubt the Yankees brain trust did in fact know that Mo and Po were free agents after this year. But I suspect that there is far more going on behind closed doors than we are aware of. There would have to be, no? If we have the time to endlessly debate this crap online, don't you think that the people who stand to make or lose millions of dollars over these decisions might actually have some kind of plan? do you think that negotiating these multiple contracts, all dependent on each other, might actually be complicated? Maybe it doesn't happen all in a day? maybe it will take a bit of time? Maybe they are moving as fast as humanly possible? And maybe, just maybe, they were as blindsided by this particular development as everyone else? Mistakes happen all of the time, and if they were blindsided, then they made a mistake. The Red Sox made $10+ million dollar mistake with Matsuzaka, no? or else they would not have overbid for him by so much. None of this is to apologize for the Yankees brass, but don't act like they haven't been working in the last week. And don't act like everything is going to hell in a handbasket. The free agency period hasn't even begun yet fercrissakes.

2007-10-29 06:49:28
424.   RIYank
418 Sliced, is there a Catch-22 here, though? If the Dodgers break the bank on A-Rod, wouldn't that make it a lot harder for them to get the other pieces they need to be in the play-off mix year-in and year-out over the next decade?
2007-10-29 06:49:36
425.   OldYanksFan
412 I believe you are wrong. Bill Gates and many, many business men give away fortures of money. Being in business doesn't mean that the absolute maximum desire to collect money trumps everything. Yes, money is the motivation behind Business, and the obvious goal.

But once you have enough, you are allowed to consider other things. Like your wife and children. Your peace of mind. Your comfort. Your future. Your legacy. Having $100 million in the bank gives you these luxuries. ARod IS a business man... but he is ALSO a baseball player... and was a N.Y. Yankee.

Please reply to this post Simone, and tell me how much more ARod will get by opting out. I think, as a Yankee, he was looking at around 8/$240 total. We won't even talk about endorsement money and the zillions of other dollars this man can earn.

I'm just wonder about this man, who is worth well over $100,000,000.... how much he will get instead of a monument in CF.

And please tell me why he was so desparate to take a PAY CUT to go to Boston.

Sorry folks, this is about Torre and DARY. ARod, and maybe others, are just the casualties.

2007-10-29 06:51:21
426.   ms october
* 420 i meant cautiously optimistic
2007-10-29 06:51:53
427.   Yankee Fan In Boston
418 re: dodgers & rodriguez

torre is rumored to be in consideration for the dodgers' managerial post. what a reunion that would be.

2007-10-29 06:54:15
428.   ms october
423 I don't think the FO was blinsided by this - many in the FO was leaking to papers that they thought ARod would opt-out.

425 ARod was DESPERATE to get out of Texas

2007-10-29 06:55:08
429.   Mattpat11
413 I'm going to blame Alex Rodriguez for continuing to exhibit a pattern of behavior that he has shown for years. The need to make everything about him at all times.

He certainly did that last night.

2007-10-29 06:55:58
430.   Bronxer
425 Any idea how much ARod currently makes from endorsements?

Just curious ...

2007-10-29 06:56:48
431.   OldYanksFan
"I think it is clear ARod marches to his and Boras's beat - he does not really give a f* about anyone but himself (which is his right - this is a business and he is entitled to do that - but let's call a spade a spade). I don't think he cares about MO, Posado, and Petite - that is just cover for him and Boras."

Why is this clear? Are you a mind reader? What about FACTS?

Here are some Facts:
The Yankees trashed Torre.
The Yankees did NOT have a replacement waiting.
Mo is NOT signed by the Yankees.
Po is NOT signed by the Yankees.
Andy is NOT signed by the Yankees.
It's in the papers that Bowa might leave.

And like most of us, OF COURSE "he does not really give a f* about anyone but himself".
But why is leaving better?

To maybe get 9/$270 instead of 8/$240?
The Yankees have largest payroll in MLB.
They have been to the PS 11 years in a row.
They have a 30 MILLION DOLLAR discount
Staying on the Yankees SHOULD HAVE BEEN the most selfish thing he could do.
Maximum $$, N.Y., Yankee history, winning?

Please TELL me WHY he is leaving and why
staying was NOT the ultimate selfish move?

2007-10-29 06:57:23
432.   Mattpat11
425 A-Rod's wife is truly a top consideration as he tours Toronto with his whore.

I'm sure he likes the woman, but seriously. She's not Alex Rodriguez. She's not his top priority.

2007-10-29 06:58:04
433.   williamnyy23
413 It sounds like you are in denial. The timing of the announcement alone should make it clear what Arod's intentions were. For all he knew, the Yankees could have announced the Mo/Po signings as soon as the WS had ended. Of course, he'd have had to return a few phone calls to have found out. Instead, Arod made up his mind a while back and used the W.S. to emphasize his stature in the game. That's all well good. I don't blame Arod for opting out...he is free to make that choice. It is disengenous, however, to hide behind the Yankees off season unknowns when the clear motivation is either money or a dislike of playing in New York. Quite frankly, I think Arod would have been better received in baseball circles had he offered the latter excuse. Instead, he'll likely be hammered from coast to coast.
2007-10-29 06:59:05
434.   Sliced Bread
424 I don't know enough about the Dodgers finances to know whether A-Rod would break their bank.
All I know is I wouldn't invest 8 years at top dollar in any player his age, let alone one who is such a lightning rod for controversy.
2007-10-29 06:59:45
435.   JeremyM
425 I see where you're going, but you're crazy if you don't think the Yankees have a plan. Joba, Hughes, Kennedy, and the rest of the young pitching are the plan. With all of the young talent in the minors and in the bigs for that matter, you really don't see a cohesive plan? I can't believe someone is falling for that statement. This is 100% about the money and getting another record contract. I mentioned this earlier, but Rodriguez has flown into Omaha a few times just to talk to Warren Buffett about money. And that's fine, but for him to say it's about something else is ridiculous.
2007-10-29 07:00:44
436.   joejoejoe
425 430 SI puts Alex Rodriguez's endorsement income at $6 million in 2007.

2007-10-29 07:03:48
437.   ms october
430 He made 6 million in 2006 - can't find anything for this year.
2007-10-29 07:04:27
438.   Nick from Washington Heights

A-Rod is leaving in part because the Yanks haven't made sure Bowa is coming back. Makes a lot of sense. But of course! The Yanks are a reeling organization because Larry Freaking Bowa might not come back.

2007-10-29 07:04:57
439.   vockins
yay, draft picks!

That's all I got.

2007-10-29 07:07:23
440.   joejoejoe
438 If we lose Joe Kerrigan I'm committing ritual sepuku.
2007-10-29 07:07:49
441.   Nick from Washington Heights
also, within two days of the Torre departure, the Yanks had three candidates already targeted. Three managers who wanted to immediately replace Torre. They had/have a replacement in mind.
2007-10-29 07:07:57
442.   Mattpat11
431 He determined that the Yankees 2008 season was lost because they did not have all their free agents signed in the middle of the World Series?

He thought that the Yankees hiring of a manager the day after the World Series was just NOT SOON ENOUGH

And confidentially, he just happened to come to these conclusions on a day when he could overshadow baseball?

2007-10-29 07:08:02
443.   Yankee Fan In Boston
am i alone in praying that they don't trade for cabrera?

i'm kind of scared of this possibility.

2007-10-29 07:08:43
444.   Nick from Washington Heights

Dude, don't even go there. If Kerrigan goes, I become a Sox fan. Don't mess with the guru!

2007-10-29 07:09:21
445.   Sliced Bread
I'm with OldYanksFan to the extent that I'm not at all certain the Steinbrothers have a plan other than to win. Do they know how to build a winning team, and how to handle talent? I'm definitely not sure about that.
But I don't blame them for A-Rod's departure in any way.
2007-10-29 07:09:38
446.   OldYanksFan
416 It is NOT my love for Torre. It was obvious that between his age, his poor onfield judgement, his BP management and a 'new look' team coming in, that Torre's days were numbered.

I love Torre because of WHAT BECAME OF THE YANKEES under his watch. I love the Yankees more. I have been following them since 1965.
I have seen their darkest days.

DARY could have had a plan. They could have worked it out with Torre. This could have been great theater. They could have sent him out in a parade, with fans cheering and crying, but looking forward to a bright future. They could have milked his success and made the transition a positive thing. EVERYBODY knew Torre's time was coming soon. This whole this was NOT about Joe leaving. It WAS about the door slamming him on the way out.

But instead, DARY did it in the way that most the MOST DESTRUCTIVE way possible. If you worked for the Red Sox and wanted to destroy the Yankees, please come up with a better way then DARY.

Please. Come up with a better plan then is now playing out, to alienate the fans, lose ARod, and maybe lose Mo, Po, Andy and our coaches.

This is my issue. Not Torre in itself, but the RAMIFICATIONS of what DARY did.


It could be a new thread:
If YOU were running the Yankees, how could you actually Fuck Up More then whats going on now.

2007-10-29 07:09:44
447.   Mattpat11
439 I'm worried that this team will panic and do something stupid and lose those picks.
2007-10-29 07:09:46
448.   Nick from Washington Heights

To get Cabrera they'd have to give up Joba, Melky, my first-born and more. I can see why you'd be worried.

2007-10-29 07:09:51
449.   Sliced Bread
443 let us pray...
2007-10-29 07:10:14
450.   rbj
Are the Yankees in a bit of disarry? Yes. Steinbrenner is not in full control of his faculties and his designated successor, Steve Swindal is out, forcing Hank & Hal to step up this year when they clearly were not interested in taking over (why else have brother-in-law take over?)

But the A-Rod thing is purely in Boras' & Alex's court. They didn't even take a meeting with the Yankees to see what was going on.
""Alex's decision was one based on not knowing what his closer, his catcher and one of his statured pitchers was going to do," Boras said. "He really didn't want to make any decisions until he knew what they were doing."" That has to be one of the all time lamestest excuses.

Show/Hide Comments 451-500
2007-10-29 07:10:36
451.   RIYank
Yeah, I'm not thrilled about Cabrera.

Shouldn't we be looking for power pitching??
Livan Hernandez?

2007-10-29 07:11:45
452.   Yankee Fan In Boston
445 i think it is a bit premature to decide how the steinbrothers will handle the team.

hank has made mention of the "smart" "baseball people" that work for him. if he and his brother listen to those people and resist the temptation to make an instant splash, things may still work out...

...they might still work out, right?

2007-10-29 07:11:58
453.   Mattpat11
446 You're big mistake is you keep assuming Alex Rodriguez cares about Joe Torre or Larry Bowa or anyone not named Alex Rodriguez.

Or that he's such a slack jawed moron that he determined that, in the middle of the world series, free agents equaled doom.

2007-10-29 07:12:58
454.   ms october
443 Yeah a little. We don't need another DH.

445 I am with you on that - but I have have become more encouraged in the last few day how often Hank refers to "the baseball people" - if he in fact is letting Cashman, Oppenheimer et al make the baseball decisions I'm good with him - even if he is an incessant talker who says he is not stupid in every quote.

2007-10-29 07:13:56
455.   JeremyM
450 The fact that they were HIS players is the icing on the cake. Seriously, what a douchebag.
2007-10-29 07:14:41
456.   alterity
[431[] You're falling for the post hoc ergo proctor hoc fallacy (which has nothing to do with the state of Yankees relief picthing): after, therefore because of.

Here's some facts:

1) Southern California is on fire
2) Arod has enough money to buy a lot of fire trucks

Ergo, Arod must want to play for the Dodgers so he can put out all of those fires and get the love he doesn't get anywhere else.

Don't assume that because things are happening in a certain order that they have a causal relationship. They MAY have one, but the timing of the announcement and the deliberate (as opposed to dysfunctional) manner in which the Yankees are hiring a new manager, tell me that these things are not as related as Boras would have public opinion believe.

While you might be right that the Yankees did not have another manager lined up, would you feel better if they announced a new deal as soon as Torre said no? Would you feel better if they'd hedged their bets? Because that would have been classy, you know, to make a contingency plan. Not mention against the damn rules as they would not have interviewed a minority candidate. (Unless they did the interviews even as they were preparing the offer to Torr:: again, classy classy classy, and surely not something that would make any waves in the press. Nope, not a bit of it.)

And while it would have been nice if all of this stuff got taken care of quickly, I for one appreciate the fact that the Yankees haven't done anything rash. Transitional periods demand consideration and not knee-jerk reactions. If they had Mattingly all lined up as the season ended or hired Girardi the second Torre said no, do you really think that would have been in everyone's best interest? doesn't it make sense to make the right decision rather than any decision?

2007-10-29 07:14:53
457.   joejoejoe
443 448 That's a steep price for Asdrubal Cabrera. Or do you mean the other Cabrera?

Similar Batters through Age 24
1. Hank Aaron (950) *
2. Ken Griffey (917)
3. Frank Robinson (911) *
4. Orlando Cepeda (910) *

The price is steep on the second guy for a reason.

2007-10-29 07:15:12
458.   Yankee Fan In Boston
454 plus, as nick mentioned above, we'd have to sell the farm. ugh.

...suffering is a good thing. suffering is a good thing. suffering is a good thing. suffering is a good thing...

2007-10-29 07:15:28
459.   Nick from Washington Heights
It's pretty simple why we shouldn't take A-Rod and Boras at their word. They didn't even sit down to discuss the future of the team! I agree that it's a consideration for A-Rod to know the direction of the team before he signs. But, he didn't even give Hank and Hal a meeting. End of story.
2007-10-29 07:16:00
460.   OldYanksFan
But I will say...
If ARod truly wanted to leave, for personal reasons, there is nothing we could have done about it.

This may be the fact. I can't read minds. My comments are not based on reading minds. Maybe ARod just wanted to go. But in September, there were an awful lot of reasons to stay. His MVP year tells us a little about how he was feeling in 2007.

My point is, the Yankees should have known EXACTLY what they were going to do with ARod, Mo, Po and Andy. A plan should have been in place. This should have been a no-brainer.

You make a plan. You make contingency plans. You execute.

No one has answered my questions:
Why is Mo either signed or let go... meaning a decision was made, and executed.
Why is Po either signed or let go... meaning a decision was made, and executed.

2007-10-29 07:16:01
461.   williamnyy23
425 Your facts are wrong. Arod wasn't taking a pay cut in the Boston deal. He ws deferring money in exchange for earlier opt out rights.

431 It's clear that you want to blame Hank Steinbrenner for everything because they "trashed" Joe Torre (I didn't realize one could be trashed by $5mn job offers). That's fine...I know you were a big fan. That doesn't make your argument convincing.

Here are some facts: The Yankees have a good young core of pitchers; the Yankees are opening up a new stadium; the Yankees have massive resources; the Yankees have expressed every intention to sign Posada and Rivera; the Yankees reached out to Arod to discuss his future with the team; Arod opted out a carefully crated moment in an attempt; Arod didn't return those phone calls; Arod has been telling friends he already decided to opt long ago (according to media reports and Kim Jones on the radio today); Arod/Boras have a history of defining stature by salary.

Why are you ignoring all these facts? Maybe, Arod just didn't like playing in New York and left it to Boras to craft the best cover story. Earlier in the week, Boras floated the loss of Joe as a reason, but that was met with ridicule. I am not surprised Torre's name was left off the list of Arod's concerns.

It seems like some people have been desperate to define recent events in terms of good and evil. We saw it with Levine and Torre, and now the same is being done with Arod and the Yankees. Well, I choose to look at things a little less emotionally.

2007-10-29 07:16:11
462.   Bob B
If A-rod leaves, Mike Lowell (MVP of the WS) is a free agent. So long as $-Rod goes to the Cubs or Dodgers and NOT the Redsox I don't mind stealing a cog from the Redsox machine. Also, there should be no one out there defending the Front Office. As I said earlier, the Yankee Front office looks a lot like the Dan Duquette days in Boston. They were a laughing stock. Now it's the Yankees in turmoil. Randy Levine and Brian Cashman should both be shown the door.
2007-10-29 07:16:29
463.   williamnyy23
425 Your facts are wrong. Arod wasn't taking a pay cut in the Boston deal. He ws deferring money in exchange for earlier opt out rights.

431 It's clear that you want to blame Hank Steinbrenner for everything because they "trashed" Joe Torre (I didn't realize one could be trashed by $5mn job offers). That's fine...I know you were a big fan. That doesn't make your argument convincing.

Here are some facts: The Yankees have a good young core of pitchers; the Yankees are opening up a new stadium; the Yankees have massive resources; the Yankees have expressed every intention to sign Posada and Rivera; the Yankees reached out to Arod to discuss his future with the team; Arod opted out a carefully crated moment in an attempt; Arod didn't return those phone calls; Arod has been telling friends he already decided to opt long ago (according to media reports and Kim Jones on the radio today); Arod/Boras have a history of defining stature by salary.

Why are you ignoring all these facts? Maybe, Arod just didn't like playing in New York and left it to Boras to craft the best cover story. Earlier in the week, Boras floated the loss of Joe as a reason, but that was met with ridicule. I am not surprised Torre's name was left off the list of Arod's concerns.

It seems like some people have been desperate to define recent events in terms of good and evil. We saw it with Levine and Torre, and now the same is being done with Arod and the Yankees. Well, I choose to look at things a little less emotionally.

2007-10-29 07:16:56
464.   thurmtheman
431 While the general clumsiness of the new FO could certainly be a consideration, are we seriously supposed to believe that the uncertain status of a year to year mid thirties pitcher, a 36 year old catcher and a 37 year old relief pitcher are the reasons he doesn't want to be here for the next 8-10 years? Please, stop. The fact is while replacing the best single offensive player in the game will be very difficult one thing is indisputable, in every year Rodriquez has been a major league player two teams he was not on played in the WS. However undesirable to you it may seem, it is possible to build a winner without him and the Yankees certainly have the resources to do it.
2007-10-29 07:17:54
465.   Yankee Fan In Boston
457 true, the kid can rake... but he can also eat. he could give kobiyashi a run for his money. he has also said that the yankees have "too many rules." he is a mini-manny. in both a good and a bad way.
2007-10-29 07:18:41
466.   Mattpat11
462 We'd be spending a lot of money for a guy that doesn't get on base and loses all his power at the all star break.
2007-10-29 07:18:42
467.   ms october
455 I thought I read that this morning - then I couldn't find that quote again - and in all the other stories I read it just lists the names - but OMG seriously what a major douche.

456 Thanks - agree fully - I was trying to remeber the name for that type of fallacy.

2007-10-29 07:19:14
468.   JL25and3
Never mind who's right or wrong. This is such a breathtakingly stupid decision that I'm having trouble figuring it out.

Yes, Rodriguez might get a few million more from another team - but, then again, he may not. Given that the Yankees started with a $50M advantage, it's hard to imagine that he'll get all that much more in an extremely limited market.

Meanwhile, he runs the risk of having it be Texas all over again. If he starts off slow, he'll start hearing the boos. If his team doesn't win their division, he will again have "proven" that he's "not a winner." It's easy to imagine that, in a couple of years, his new team will start bitching about his contract and how it's preventing them from winning.

NY is the one place where he's gotten through the boos, where they won't bitch about the contract, and where he has the chance to be the biggest hero. I can't understand any reason why he wouldn't make it happen with the Yankees.

So here are my theories:

1. Boras already has a deal worked out via tampering, as he did with Drew.

2. Boras thinks the Yankees are bluffing and will still negotiate. (I heard him say something to that effect a week or so ago.)

3. This is a ploy to get the Yankees to bid against themselves even more: "Before we sent the papers to the Commissioner, the Yankees made a new offer" etc.

2007-10-29 07:19:21
469.   williamnyy23
445 If you can prove the Cashman has been usurped by Hank, I'll agree with you. Since midseason, however, Cashman has made it clear that the team would not deal with Arod if he opted out. Like it or not, that is a clear plan. Now, whether they stick to it is anoher story.
2007-10-29 07:19:37
470.   rbj
460 Cashman said, before the season began, that they'd negotiate with Jorgie & Mo after the season. Which is what they are doing. Sounds to me that that is a plan. I'm sure the Yankees want to retain those two, at a fair market price.
2007-10-29 07:21:44
471.   OldYanksFan
433 You may be right. I can't read ARod's mind. However, regardless of the ARod situation, until DARY proves me wrong by putting a PS quality team on the field in 2008, my feeling is DARY is screwing up big time.
2007-10-29 07:24:11
472.   williamnyy23
448 I am not sure the price tag would be so high. Either way, it's an option worth exploring. Also, consider this: Cabrera's career OPS+ is 143; Arod's is 147. Is work ethic might not be great, but at age 24, Cabrera has not even entered his prime. He has the potential to be the best hitter in the game...the next Manny in many respects. Like Manny, something tells me Miguel Cabrera wouldn't grind the bat too tightly in the post season.
2007-10-29 07:24:31
473.   Yankee Fan In Boston
471 nobody's 2008 roster is set. the world series ended less than 12 hours ago. contract negotiations and trade talks take time. give them a month or so to see what comes together.
2007-10-29 07:27:52
474.   williamnyy23
460 I think they do/did know what they wanted to do with all four. It's clear to me their intention is to resign Mo and Posada...offer Arod a pre-opt out extension...and hope Pettitte decides to return (it's his decision). What plan were you expecting.

Aas for not having a manager at the ready, maybe, just maybe, the Yankees DID expect Torre to accept the deal he was offered, and DIDN'T use it to purposely push him out?

2007-10-29 07:28:05
475.   OldYanksFan
435 "I see where you're going, but you're crazy if you don't think the Yankees have a plan. Joba, Hughes, Kennedy, and the rest of the young pitching are the plan."

Dude, these kids are ALREADY Yankees. We knew 2 months ago they were on the team. DARY inherited the kids, along with everyone now on the farm. Can you see a plan for their manager, closer, catcher, best veteran pitcher and coaches?

You see, the problem is I saw the Yankees 'Plans' from 1973 to 1995.
I just don't want that to happen again.

2007-10-29 07:29:40
476.   Mattpat11
473 The World Series ended less than 12 hours ago and Alex Rodriguez reached this determination several hours before that.
2007-10-29 07:31:02
477.   Sliced Bread
469 Declaring that they would not deal with A-Rod if he opted out is not what I'd call a plan for building a winning team.
I've said for quite some time that A-Rod was leaving.
Now, if Cashman and Co. have had their eyes on a replacement all along, and are ready to make a move, I'd call that a plan for building a winning team.
No, throwing say, 5 years and top dollar at Lowell will not pass as a plan for builidng a winning team either in my book.
2007-10-29 07:31:17
478.   ms october
472 A lot of people - including some people he says he has a lot of respect for like Ozzie Guillen have called him out - so if he is working hard this offseason - I think it is defintely worth exploring. But if he is not showing signs that he is working out hard - I don't think it is good to give up what the Marlins would want.
2007-10-29 07:31:29
479.   Mattpat11
475 What the hell kind of moron determines that the team has lost players because they're not signed during the World Series? This is a man who's been around Major League Baseball over a decade. I'd like to think he's smarter than that.
2007-10-29 07:32:42
480.   yankz
470 And seriously, what the hell is the rush? They had FAR more important matters, like this Pay-Rod mess and picking a new manager. I doubt Posada and Mo have even talked to other teams.
2007-10-29 07:34:25
481.   yankz
Also, I think there's a 0% chance they chase him as a FA. They would never, ever be able to bluff again.
2007-10-29 07:34:54
482.   JoeInRI
Sorry I'm getting in on this late . . . and I'm sure this has been said . . . but damn, I was just starting to think this guy wanted to be here.
2007-10-29 07:35:57
483.   williamnyy23
475 The plan seemed to work pretty well between 1976 and 1981. Also, the team won mor regular season games in the 1980s than any other team. While they failed to make the playoffs after 1981, it wasn't because they fielded an awful team. Of course, what defined that era was complete neglect of the farm system. That clearly isn't the case now.
2007-10-29 07:36:13
484.   yankz
I awoke in the middle of the night hoping that Howie Clark someday eclipses all of Pay-Rod's records.
2007-10-29 07:36:51
485.   RIYank
481 Zero is too low.
But I'll be surprised if they do chase him as a FA, yeah. I figure the loophole is if it turns out the market for him is a lot less excited than Boras thinks (or is pretending to think).
2007-10-29 07:38:11
486.   williamnyy23
477 Why isn't it plan. It seems to me the Yankees were going to craft their very best offer and present it to Arod. If he decided it wasn't enough, the team was then prepared to seek other options. That sounds like a rational plan to me...unless you'd prefer the Yankees bid against themselves like Hicks did in 2000?
2007-10-29 07:38:12
487.   OldYanksFan
456 I would have felt better if they knew EXACTLY when Torre was to be gone, and did it in anything other then the 'Yogi Berra' method. I would have felt better if they had made their decisions on Mo and Po. I believe Andy is waiting on this.

If ARod is leaving, lets not act surprised at his announcement timing. For Boras, this is theater. How is left is unimportant. Why he left is, although we may never know the real answer.

So are people here telling me they are not concerned about DARY and how this winter is unfolding?

2007-10-29 07:38:19
488.   51cq24
431 nice facts!
1. The Yankees trashed Torre.
torre rejected a huge contract offer from the yankees. whatever else you may feel about it, that is the "fact" behind your speculation.
2. The Yankees did NOT have a replacement waiting.
they are supposed to announce the replacement today. would you have preferred they hadn't even had any interviews and had just named a manager immediately? doesn't the "fact" that they didn't have a replacement waiting point against the "fact" that they "trashed" torre?
3. Mo is NOT signed by the Yankees.
4. Po is NOT signed by the Yankees.
these are both true. this is usually the case for free agents. so what? they aren't gone either.
5. Andy is NOT signed by the Yankees.
actually, he has an option to come back.
6. It's in the papers that Bowa might leave.
ok this one actually made me laugh. as others have mentioned, this obviously had nothing to do with arod leaving. but even funnier is the fact that you went from these facts in real life to the "fact" that a newspaper is speculating. very good.

does the fact that you're the only one saying "DARY" make you feel like you are maybe the only one who thinks this?

2007-10-29 07:39:38
489.   Yankee Fan In Boston
476 rodriguez likely had his mind made up months ago. the decision of one player to opt out of his contract is a far simpler (and faster) than a contract negotiation or discussions of trades. factor into that the declaration by selig forbidding teams to announce anything during the series, and the choices of a team must be dragged out even longer, even if agreements had already been reached.

to me, it looks like rodriguez made his announcement when he did so that he could use the mandated waiting period as an excuse. he wanted out. he got it.

2007-10-29 07:40:14
490.   yankz
485 Can you imagine him in the clubhouse next year if they bring him back? I know he's huge and all, but I hope he'd get his ass kicked.
2007-10-29 07:40:40
491.   williamnyy23
478 Agreed...but I don't think you pass up talent like his based on rumors. Whether it's at 1B or 3B, I know I'd be very comfortable building my lineup around Cabrera.
2007-10-29 07:41:10
492.   Yankee Fan In Boston
487 i might be concerned... eventually. i think that it is a bit too early to panic.
2007-10-29 07:41:19
493.   RIYank
490 Hm, I suppose his chances of being a Real Yankee (tm) would then be zero.
2007-10-29 07:41:47
494.   yankz
Anyone know Cabrera's defense at 1B?

I think the starting point would be Hughes and Cano. I don't think I'd get involved.

2007-10-29 07:42:25
495.   williamnyy23
480 They definitely haven't because teams have exlusive rights to their FA so many days after the World Series (I forget how many). It would have been silly to focus on Posada and Rivera before choosing a manager.
2007-10-29 07:42:53
496.   Sliced Bread
486 Bid against themselves?! No, you don't understand, or you're not reading my posts. I'm glad the Yanks didn't present the offer. I wouldn't have offered him anything more than two years tacked on to his current deal.
And again, I saw his departure coming a looonng way away. Did Cashman not?
Let's see what the big plan is now, aside from throwing top dollar at whoever's available. I'm afriad there is no plan beyond that, but we'll see. I hope to be pleasantly surprised.
For the record, again... I'm okay with Betemit at 3rd. The Yanks have done fine with worse third basemen.
2007-10-29 07:43:20
497.   ms october
489 yeah the more i think about it the more i think that too
2007-10-29 07:43:27
498.   yankz
Why did he do it? We were pretty much the last people in the AL that still liked him. Now he'll make "Who's your daddy?" look like choir practice.
2007-10-29 07:44:21
499.   yankz
New thread.
2007-10-29 07:44:47
500.   JoeInRI
Maybe ARod's taking a Marxist philosophy here . . . "I wouldn't want to belong to any club that would have me as a member"
Show/Hide Comments 501-550
2007-10-29 07:45:15
501.   Yankee Fan In Boston
496 yup. charlie hayes has a ring. brosius has bling, too.
2007-10-29 07:45:36
502.   williamnyy23
487 The winter hasn't even started. Whether it's Mattingly or Girardi, I am happy that the Yankees are going in a new direction at manager. Other than that, no other decision has been made. The Yankees had no control over Arod's decision, so I don't see how anyone could blame them for it.
2007-10-29 07:46:01
503.   OldYanksFan
"mid thirties pitcher, a 36 year old catcher and a 37 year old relief pitcher are the reasons..."

So let me see if I read you correctly.
Posada, a lifetime Yankee on a team who couldn't even get a decent backup catcher, a guy who just had a career year, and who has been basically the best catcher in the AL for a decade, is just a '36 year old catcher'?

And Mariano Rivera, possibly the greatest closer in history, another lifetime Yankee, and a guy who, while not the 'best' in still excellent in an otherwise (no Joba) crappy bullpen, is just a '37 year old relief'.

That's all these 2 guys represent to you?

Are you excited about replacing the 2 old guys?

2007-10-29 07:46:32
504.   ms october
490 you mean by shelley?

496 i think cashman knew this was a very real and in fact high probabability outcome. wasn't that part of the reason for getting betemit - as some sort of insurance (albeit you lost allstate for some guy selling insurance from his home)

2007-10-29 07:47:53
505.   williamnyy23
489 On the radio today, Kim Jones said Arod was telling a mutual friend in September something to the effect "these guys are going to miss me when I'm gone". Take that for what it's worth, but there have been a few stories suggesting that Arod made his decision long ago. Personally, I think he hated his treatment here in New York and also saw an opportunity to make even more money. I can't blame him for making his decision on that basis...he should just save the cover story.
2007-10-29 07:50:44
506.   Sliced Bread
504 I don't think Betemit is Cashman's longterm solution, and we'll know that for sure when he makes Lowell an obscene offer. Again, I hope to be pleasantly surprised by Cashman's next move re: third base.
2007-10-29 07:51:19
507.   OldYanksFan
470 That's a plan? Can you then tell me what they would have said if they didn't have a plan?
2007-10-29 07:52:22
508.   williamnyy23
493 All kidding aside, at the very least, we no longer have to deal with all the ancillary stories that come with having Arod on the team. Also, next post season (if they make it), the main story wont be will Arod finally come through. I am sure that distraction had to negatively affect the team. I know I was almost as nervous about Arod's performance as the team's. Does everyone remember the angry captain shouting "We, we, we"? Well, maybe that should be the lesson. I was probably one of Arod's biggest supporters, especially during the embarrassing booing episodes, but maybe he just wasn't a fit for this organization.

Finally, I wonder what Derek Jeter is thinking today….I have a feeling it's something like "Ha!"

2007-10-29 07:55:12
509.   williamnyy23
494 He hasn't played much 1B, but most people envision that as his final destination, ala Albert Pujols. Hughes and Cano would be way too much for Cabrera. I honestly don't think the price tag would be that high. He will be gone in a year anyway, so I am sure the Marlins would take a reduced package. I wouldn't be shocked if the Yankees could make a deal without touching their trinity or anyone on the major league club (except for Melky).
2007-10-29 07:56:11
510.   OldYanksFan
461 I am not ignoring those facts. Those facts were facts on Oct. 1, 2007. What's the news? Those are the facts even if we kept Torre. Those are the facts in we sign ARod, and if we sign Mo, Po and Andy. And ifour quality coaches stay.

Those have been the facts for a while.
We have some new facts now SINCE Oct. 1.
Torre is not a Yankee.
ARod is not a Yankee.
We don't know about Mo, Po, or Andy, or our coaches. Which 'facts' are more relevent NOW?

2007-10-29 07:58:09
511.   williamnyy23
510 Several of those facts occured after Oct 1, so I am not sure what you are talking about. As for the facts in place before, well, they point to the Yankees having a tagible plan and increasing resources, so I am not sure what more Arod could hope to have in place.
2007-10-29 08:04:19
512.   OldYanksFan
474 If the Yankees wanted Torre to be managing, he'd be managing. Do you believe Torre WANTED to leave?

The Yankees season ended 2 weeks ago. If they know what they are doing with Mo and Po, why wait? They could guess it MIGHT effect ARod and Andy, especially with the news on Torre.

If there a reason why they have not already announced that Mo and Po are back? It takes time? How much? Sometimes, it's good to act swiftly.
It is just a teeny, weeny bit possible that Andy, ARod Mo and Po were a little bummed out at Torregate? If so, should the FO let that fester? They made a decision on Bobby. Whats doing with Mo and Po?

2007-10-29 08:09:41
513.   OldYanksFan
I might be mssing something. If the Sox do NOT get ARod, why would they let Lowell walk? And isn't signing older FAs who just happened to have a career year a recipe for disaster? The Sox let JD walk, and we got him. Smart move? If the Sox let Lowell walk, should we get him?
2007-10-29 08:19:49
514.   OldYanksFan
488 So you feel the the Yankee's FO is better then the Red Sox's FO? You feel confident the our FO, consdiering who we had in 2007, will continue to put an outstanding team on the field and that NY will continue to be a favored destination for ballplayers?

I really hope so. As I've said, I've been a fan for 42 years. The Yankees have every advantage possibly, marketplace, value and cash. I just want to Yankees to continue to be the best team AND a franchise I can be proud of (which certainly was NOT the case, pre-Torre)

2007-10-29 08:41:52
515.   OldYanksFan
488 Facts are not nice or ugly. There are just facts... I think.
1) You're right. Torre hated it here. Wanted to leave. There was absolutely nothing the Yankee FO could have done, within reason, to keep him. It's generally accepted the FO did do everything possible and handled the situation in a professional and dignified manner.
2) Yup. The most powerful franchise in the world LUCKILY had every possible candidate ALREADY WITHIN THE YANKEE realm! Amazing that, yes? They didn't even had to look any further then their own backyard FOR THE ABSOLUTE BEST CANDIDATE POSSIBLE. Amazing!
3) & 4) I agree. Considering our situation, we should be governed by what OTHER FAs and organizations do. It is never good business to act based on YOUR specific issues and conditions. It's always best just to look at what others are doing, and do that.
5) Do you think that Torregate, Mo, Po and ARod have an impact on Pettitte's decision? If so, and IF the Yankees want Andy back.... and considering that the DELAY and committment were part of the reason Andy left us last time.... do you think that maybe we should consider all this information and act in a way that is best for the Yankee's interest? Or.... we can wait and see what other teams do.
6) Bowa's departure will probably not have ANY effect on anyone's decision. However, his departure is another small brick falling.
Do you like Bowa? His influence on Cano and the other INFs? Would you like him back?

But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe these 'facts' represent the absolute most intelligent, thoughful and comprehensive planning that money can buy.

How many people thought Torre was NOT coming back on Oct. 1 (before the ALDS)?

How many people thought the FO was planning to NOT have Torre come back on Oct. 1?

2007-10-29 08:42:30
516.   Bob B
You've just gotta hope that $-rod and $oros get a lot less money in the Free Agent Market. That would be sweet. Proves the Booing was well deserved. I'll be glad to see the unlucky #13 absent from the field.F-him and his agent.

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