Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
A Bitter Pill
2007-10-22 05:29
by Alex Belth
Note: The Bronx Banter blog has moved to

Bigger, Better, Bullies

As much as I hate to say this, I will. Congrats to the Red Sox for winning the pennant. Tough team, man. Couple of the greatest hitters in the game, the best money pitcher going, an outstanding closer, and more. They deserve to be the AL champs.

Most of all, congrats to all of the cool Sox fans out there (and this means you, Josh). After Josh Beckett dominated the Indians in Game 5 did anyone think the Sox were going to lose? I pinned all of my hopes on Fausto Carmona, and when he got spanked on Saturday night, I knew it was over.

Before Game 6, I got an IM from an old Sox friend of mine who boasted, "We're winning this thing." He was dead-serious too. My, how times have changed. In the post '04-World, anything is possible in New England. The Sox have been a very good team for years now, the Patriots practically own the NFL, even the Celtics have a promising season ahead with the additions of KG and Ray Allen. Yup, a new world.

Disgusting, isn't it? (Especially in New York, where Red Sox gear has infiltrated every yuppie neighborhood in the five boroughs.) So while the Sox--and their fans--become more and more like the Yankees and their fans (elitest, entitled, overbearing, obnoxious, hated throughout the rest of the country), we can do nuthin but watch (Hey, maybe Season 4 of The Office will start getting good any week now...). A bitter pill, indeed. After the last couple of games, I might not have the stomach to look at the World Serious. Not to see the Sox roll over the Rocks, no thank you.

But there will also be enough continuing drama in Yankeeland to keep our minds of things, that's for sure. Time to commiserate. Whatta ya got?

Comments (107)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-10-22 06:03:52
1.   chrismarz
I still don't understand how CC & Carmona could pitch so poorly during this series. Yes, a lot of credit should go to the sox hitters, but these guys couldn't even keep their team in the games they pitched.

Did they run out of gas? I think I heard somewhere that both pitchers were 50 innings over their season highs this year.

2007-10-22 06:06:37
2.   Raf
Why does everyone assume that the Rockies won't show up for the Series?

Or is this some kind of jinx that we're working on here?

2007-10-22 06:10:38
3.   Alex Belth
They pitched many innings and were probably tired but Carmona was still throwing 97 mph, Sabathia was still throwing cheese as well. They just ran into a line-up that didn't help them out.

Both pitchers looked shook to pitch to Manny and Ortiz. And while that's not a crazy notion, with their kind of stuff, you'd think they wouldn't wilt. I'm sure Fewnway played a part in Carmona's two poor performances--remember when he was torched their in relief last year? I know he pitched a great game in Boston this summer, but when the pressure was on, he didn't deliver his best game.

Anyone give the Rocks a chance? I'd say you'd have to simply because they buzzed through the NL like they did. But all this time off, and now facing the Red Sox? Well, Boston is a far cry from the D Backs or Phillies, that's all I can say. Best thing the Rocks can do, is get down 2-0, 3-1, then maybe stage their own crazy comeback.

2007-10-22 06:10:57
4.   Alex Belth
2, you said it not me. LOL.
2007-10-22 06:15:30
5.   Max
Not that anyone needs reminding, but imagine that Abreu hits a single in the 7th inning just like Gutierrez's last night, and Bowa inexplicably holds Melky up at third instead of sending him home for the tying run.

Then ARod hits into a double play, and follows that up the next inning by making an error that leads to a two run HR off Joba (or Mo). Then Joba/Mo gets shelled for 6 more runs, aided by ARod clumsily barreling over Jeter on a popup that turns into a double.

Finally ARod makes the final out of the game on an outstanding catch by Crisp.

That's what the Indians did last night.

I think people aren't giving the Rockies much of a chance just because of their almost supernatural run of luck and the talent disparity, but I love their story (even without the RS to root against), and I'm hoping they can continue the run.

2007-10-22 06:16:46
6.   ms october
1 Sabathia pitched 241 innings this year - about 45-50 more IP than the last few years (previous career high was 210 in 2002).
Carmona pitched 215 this year and just under 75 last year. I thought the IP caught up to them the other day myself.
I think the Red Sox hitters adjusted slightly better to the pitching as the series went on compared to the Yanks approach.
2 I do think the Rocks wwill show up. I think the lay off will hurt as well as the difficulty of continuing to win so many games. Plus, though I still don't think the Red Sox are that good, the last few games they have been exploiting their strengths and hiding their weaknesses.

I might choke on the bitter pill. It really sucks to be in Boston right now. I must finish my dissertation ASAP and get out of here.

2007-10-22 06:18:09
7.   Sliced Bread
Thing is, head to head, even as mediocre as our pitching was, the BoSox didn't scare me this year. I think we had their number, and coulda/woulda taken the pennant.

I'm not ready to annoint them the top of the food chain. Not with the clowns they have on that team.

Let's go Rockies!

and let's go Yanks! Get yer shyte together, Steinbrenners.

2007-10-22 06:20:09
8.   Sliced Bread
7 Heh. How elitest, entitled, overbearing, & obnoxious of me to say all that.
2007-10-22 06:20:18
9.   thurmtheman
7 I agree, I'm just sick of rooting against them instead of for my team. I understand why all those Sox fans are so bitter after years of hoping someone else would beat the Yanks.
2007-10-22 06:21:06
10.   Knuckles
It's funny. A month ago, the Yanks were storming towards the playoffs, and I was hoping they'd play deep into October, because the Giants sure as hell looked like crap and it was looking like a long Fall, sportwise. Then the Bombers go and fall on their faces, but the Giants have picked it up. Now, I'm not saying football is equal to baseball in my eyes, but it helps. A bit.

I think the layoff is going to be bad for the Rockies, but hopefully they can retain enough of their juice. Their fans have had a while to rest up their lungs so I hope that joint is jumping.Maybe Big Papi turns into David Or-Wheeze in the thin mountain air, or Youkilis gets mistaken for an anti-earth lumberjack and some Greenpeace loco shackles him to a bulldozer, or Manny (being Manny) walks off the edge of a mountain and doesn't get found (Rulon Gardner style) until after the Serious. I've never been to Colorado, so these kinds of things seem plausible to me.

And I think The Office has been great so far this season. My brother and I were just lamenting the end of the hour-long episodes. Obviously, the tension b/w Jim and Pam is gone, but I think that's fine, as they've been able to flesh out some of the other characters and focus on the comeday aspect of it.

"I delcare...BANKRUPTCY!"

2007-10-22 06:25:05
11.   Yankee Fan In Boston
6 re: being in boston, suffering, etc.

hang in there. these people really are becoming all they said they hated. it is amusing.

2007-10-22 06:28:49
12.   ms october
8 I think I much prefer being those things with a small dash of worry thrown in for good measure than knowing something bad is going to happen (ex. Philly/Cleveland); knowing you never have a chance (ex. Pittsburgh/Kansas City); knowing you will always be second fiddle regardless of what Mike Lupica says (Mets); or knowing that you might be riding high now but you still have a LONG way to go (Red Sox).
Hopefully that was obnoxious enough.
2007-10-22 06:33:45
13.   Max
Courtesy of the Plain Dealer, last night adds to the following list for Tribe fans:

Jose Mesa.

Manny Ramirez and Thome walking out of town.

Charlie Manuel quitting in the middle of a season.

Milton Bradley taking a cab out of spring training.

The 68-94 record in 2003 and an Opening Day lineup featuring Matt Lawton hitting third and Karim Garcia fifth.*

The ball Grady Sizemore lost in the sun and the collapse of '05.

Jody Gerut falling into a black hole.

The collapse in Boston in 1999.

*(Hey, a Karim Garcia sighting!)

2007-10-22 06:40:25
14.   NJYankee41
10 Sigh, try rooting for the Jets.

13 Who?

I think it is yankz that has been voicing his displeasure at the 5 game series. Let me say that I feel the same way. I would think MLB would have some interest in playing the extra game or 2 per series ($ wise). Especially considering 3 out of the 4 division series games went the minimum of 3 games.

2007-10-22 06:43:04
15.   Sliced Bread
12 What's also interesting is that I honestly don't remember ever being as cocky as Red Sox fans are now.

They are so certain of victory going into this Series. They're actually talking sweep.

Looking back, I'm sure I didn't feel that way going into the '98, '99, '00, '01 , '03 World Series. The '95 and '97 postseasons, and a little thing called the 1980s taught me about cautious optimism.

Haters can say whatever they want about the Yanks, but the Joe Torre Yanks always respected their opponents. I'm getting a completely different vibe from the Sox and their fans these days.

2007-10-22 06:48:21
16.   unpopster
Between Manny's cadillacing, Beckett's 'tude, Youkilis' whining, and Pedroia's obvious napoleonic complex, how can you not hate that team? And, oh, Papelbon is SLING BLADE!

I've got to tell you, the only two guys on that whole team that I respect are Papi and Wakefield. Both handle themselves with uber-class on and off the field. The rest are a bunch of clowns.

2007-10-22 06:48:49
17.   ms october
13 Yeah - Cleveland man. Just wait until Lebron leaves them.
And continuing our wonderment of the LoHud commenters one of them wants us to make Milton Bradley the RF next year.
14 Yes yankz is planning to contact Rudy to have him make it a part of his campaign. I think we will eventually see it - what will probably propel it to happen is something like a Cleveland/Colorado WS. Also TBS losing so much money with all but one sweep. I think the Lakers single-handedly got the NBA to change, maybe this can be something Hank works on.
2007-10-22 06:51:30
18.   NJYankee41
16 You nailed it, but how could you forget the arrogance of Schilling?

Yes, Wakefield is very respectable and far and away the only guy I like on that team. Papi seems like a nice guy, but he buys into that clown shit too.

2007-10-22 06:52:55
19.   ms october
15 Yeah I agree. And Francona doesn't seem to be an a-hole. I think it really is the fans who had a switch flipped in them and the vast bulk of the players being such first class jerks. They even still have a spell over Kevin Millar, so I hope no one brings him up as a possible 1B again.
2007-10-22 06:53:30
20.   NJYankee41
18 I retract calling David Ortiz "Papi". I promised myself I wouldn't.
2007-10-22 06:54:41
21.   unpopster
18 OMG, how the hell did I forget about The Mouth? Doesn't matter though, he's a Phillie next year anyway.
2007-10-22 06:56:42
22.   bp1
7 8 15 I love ya, Sliced.

What is the opposite of schadenfreude? I think I'm suffering whatever it might be. I just hate it when the Sox win.

I can't help but wonder what happened when we played Cleveland. Seems like the team we played was a different team than the one that played BoSox. Where was Kenny Lofton, the two out rbi machine? Where were the Raffy duo, the late inning reliever killers? Carmono and Sabathia looked cooked against the Sox.


Have the Yankees lost their ability to intimidate other teams?

2007-10-22 06:56:52
23.   ms october
21 Because though I still hate him, he is actually being eclipsed by some of those other jerks. Plus, the Red Sox FO is casting him away and the Boston media has turned on him.
2007-10-22 07:00:10
24.   dianagramr
I like Papelbon for his stare/glare, and for the fact he loves playing Scrabble.

Francona is cool too ...

The rest ..... meh.

2007-10-22 07:01:48
25.   Felix Heredia
About that Red Sox gear - I see more and more Red Sox hats on the streets of New York. I think it's more than just fair weather fans, because some of the people I see with Red Sox hats look like they might even qualify as "hipsters." I think it's become a contrarian thing in New York - wear a Red Sox hat and you're anti-establishmnet and against the "corporate Yankees." Of course, it's total B.S., but that never stopped anyone before.
2007-10-22 07:05:03
26.   NJYankee41
24 That stare is the reason I began to hate him. It's such an act.

Oh yeah, Francona is alright too.

2007-10-22 07:09:00
27.   Yankee Fan In Boston
18 19 [etc.] there are a bunch of guys on the red sox that i like quite a bit. (how could a yankee fan not like jd drew or julio lugo?) papelbon strikes me as being a bit cocky, but people say the same thing about jeter.

the big difference i've seen is definitely in the general population. a girl at work who was asking me "how baseball works" last week came in this morning wearing a sox jersey. a guy here wanted to make a bet with me that "his sox" would win it all. i asked him who played 2B for the sox, and he was stumped. he couldn't name 2 starting pitchers.

i think a lot of the swagger in "the nation" is from the bandwagon set. the people i talk to who have suffered therough the dark years are still reasonable people and appreciate this run for all that it is, as opposed to the loud and gathering hangers-on.

still, it is pretty obnoxious around here.

2007-10-22 07:10:08
28.   unpopster
26 did you see his jig when the Sox won the AL East? Can you imagine Mariano acting like such a fool?

Not to change the subject too much, but Torre brought a certain amount of class to the organization and the team and it rubbed off on the players. I sure do hope that the team doesn't lose it with whoever takes over. I mean, I'd hate to see guys like Joba and Robbie begin to act like fools (see: the entire Red Sox team)

2007-10-22 07:19:57
29.   JL25and3
I look at these two teams, and the Red Sox just look much better than the Rockies. One incredible (and well-timed) streak doesn't change that.

It's also hard to think of the Rockies as still being "hot" after this ridiculous layoff.

The Sox have one big disadvantage, though. In the middle three games they have to leave Ortiz, Lowell or Youkilis on the bench. And if they play Ortiz, they have to suffer his defense.

2007-10-22 07:20:54
30.   AbbyNormal821
11 "hang in there. these people really are becoming all they said they hated. it is amusing. "

Hysterical, actually - but they'll never admit it they're turning into Yankee fans! Amazing what 1 win (possibly 2) in 4 years will do to a team. What a bunch of buffoons!

Go Rockies...

2007-10-22 07:21:17
31.   AbbyNormal821
11 "hang in there. these people really are becoming all they said they hated. it is amusing. "

Hysterical, actually - but they'll never admit it, which is even more hysterica!! Amazing what 1 win (possibly 2) in 4 years will do to a team. What a bunch of buffoons!

Go Rockies...

2007-10-22 07:23:12
32.   Alex Belth
Mike Lowell seems like a stand-up guy too.
2007-10-22 07:25:16
33.   Raf
27 That is usually the case when it comes to newfound success. When the Yanks started their run, the diehards appreciated it, the bandwagoners didn't, and still don't... But, the bandwagoners are the ones spending $$, at least more than the diehards.

I know the Yanks haven't had the big dogpile since 2000, but I've appreciated the effort, even though it hasn't come to fruition the past few years.

It could always be worse; it could be 1990...

2007-10-22 07:27:20
34.   pistolpete
3 The only hope the Rockies give me is that Philly's offense was tremendous going into the playoffs and the Rox only gave up 8 runs in 3 games. I feel like if Colorado can hit Boston's starters, they've got a legit shot.

Who knows, stranger things have happened. This whole thing feels like Yanks/Marlins of '03 to me, except Beckett's now playing for the favorite.

0 You didn't like the 'Shrute Farms' episode? I was giggling as soon as Jim & Pam watched Moses running alongside the car...

2007-10-22 07:27:44
35.   Comrade Al
22 The bloops stopped falling in, and the midges went away.
2007-10-22 07:30:06
36.   yankz
Office has been pretty good. Several fantastic lines. But I think last week was really sappy (with Dwight and Michael moping all the time, and Jim and Jan's consolation speeches).

Heroes- and Claire Bennett- tonight.

2007-10-22 07:30:56
37.   ms october
29 Yeah - and I wonder with his bad knee if they even mess around with putting him in the field.

Guess the interviews begin today with Girardi,; and Randy Levine worked hard over the weekend - way to earn those incentives.

2007-10-22 07:31:32
38.   yankz
Pettitte's stare is intimidating. Papelbon's looks like he has gas.

(Yeah, I've used that one before, but nobody ever read it.)

2007-10-22 07:32:56
39.   pistolpete
38 Papelbon's stare looks like an 8 year old who's made at his parents for making him drink milk instead of soda at dinner.

Whatever, dough-boy.

2007-10-22 07:33:05
40.   yankz
14 Yup, it's me. Look what happened- both Boston and the Yankees 3 of the first 4. I think given 3 more games, the Yankees would stand a much better shot. You'd get to start Pettitte and Phil. And there's no shot in hell Carmona repeats game 2- I mean, just look how he pitched after that...
2007-10-22 07:33:26
41.   pistolpete
39 'mad' at his parents. Another joke ruined by spelling errors.
2007-10-22 07:34:29
42.   yankz
13 For Ohio fans:

Losing in the NBA finals
Losing in the NCAA basketball finals (OSU)
Losing in the NCAA football finals (OSU)

Rough year.

2007-10-22 07:35:25
43.   Bronxer
Say what you will, but I would take Ortiz, Papelbon, Pedroia, Youk, Ellsbury on the Yankees any time, not to mention Beckett.
Who cares how they celebrate ... they win, period.
2007-10-22 07:36:30
44.   yankz
20 Plus, as someone (the since departed Jeb, maybe?) reminded me yesterday, Ortiz campaigned for himself as MVP (DH's should get equal consideration! It's not my fault!). Then Jeter showed him how it's done ("We're not focusing on individual awards...")
2007-10-22 07:36:47
45.   Schteeve
I don't think the Rockies have a prayer, but I will be rooting for them with everything I've got. I've always been a huge fan of Helton, be nice to see him get a ring.

I also remember a few years ago saying that I didn't think anyone had any business playing baseball at that altitude, so it would be nice to be proven wrong on that.

2007-10-22 07:40:27
46.   Zack
The Rockies have a serious offense which will have to carry them, and two decent-great relievers. Tulowitski, Helton, Holliday, Atkins can all rake, and Fenway shouldn't hurt them like most other parks do. However, their starting pitching is the pits. They do have Francis who is a lefty which might help, but we all know about teams that rely on a good offense...

Hey, if the Rockies can somehow avoid the total Fenway panic that seems to set in for most teams and play their game, they can easily hit the Red Sox pitching, which even the Tribe managed to expose as overrated save Beckett (Man, Hafner and Sizemore had AWFUL Abs all series).

I wouldn't count the Rockies out, and Coors field should do a # on Dice-K and Wake, but I'm not exactly giving them a shot either...

And finally, I have no problem with the Red Sox, though I do find their continued insistence on being "blue collar" "dirt Dogs" or "scrappy" to be completely contrived and disingenious, and find their fans embracing of it even more funny when the huge majority of them are so not "blue collar." Nostalgia I suppose...

2007-10-22 07:42:37
47.   Zack
43 I think its a bit premature to want Ellsbury and call him a winner. Besides, the Yanks have an Ellsbury already in Brett Gardner...Same thing with Pedroia, where they have a better version in Cano.

And as for them "just winning," I'm not sure where that comes from as last year they were a 3rd place team. This is hardly the same team as 2004, so theres really very little to say that they "just win" until, well, the past three games...

2007-10-22 07:42:50
48.   Cliff Corcoran
Add mine to the voices that think the Office has been particularly good thus far this season. Much better than last season, I'd say. I was actually on the verge of losing interest in the show last year. This year it's got me hooked all over again. But, 10 , are you saying that they're going back to 30-min episodes from here on out? That's a bummer.

As for the Giants, I've been enjoying the winning streak, but you have to take into account the quality of their opponents. I mean, the team is beating the teams it should beat, and that's great, but reality's going to hit after the bye week. They could make the playoffs due to their weak schedule, but right now I still doubt they'll get past the first round.

2007-10-22 07:43:57
49.   Bronxer
"They win. Period" as in 2007.
2007-10-22 07:47:55
50.   Shaun P
48 The only real question about the Giants' season to me is, does a first round exit get Coughlin an extension or a pink slit? And which is better?

The defense certainly has been a joy to watch, though that too might be because their opponents have been so bad. But maybe NFC:NL::Giants:Rockies?

11 30 "becoming"? Surely you guys mean "have become", because IMHO, the process was finished sometime before Spring Training 2005 began.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-10-22 07:47:56
51.   Schteeve
48 Disagree, they can win a first round game, what they absolutley can't do is hang on the same field with the Pats or Colts.
2007-10-22 07:48:28
52.   Zack
And remember to send all of your humid, non-windy thoughts the way of San Diego, we could sure use it!
2007-10-22 07:49:55
53.   pistolpete
46 Just silly considering the town they play in, which is the furthest thing from 'blue collar' you can imagine.

IMO, anyway.

2007-10-22 07:51:07
54.   joe in boston
11 "hang in there. these people really are becoming all they said they hated. it is amusing. " - thanks ! I now have my comeback line to use against all these clowns up here. Man -I feel awful as a Yankee fan, everything is backwards now : We are in disarray while the Sox roll on.
2007-10-22 07:53:27
55.   Sarasota
the FO in the Bronx is surely burning today!!.......
2007-10-22 07:55:59
56.   Bronxer
Joe in Boston - shouldn't you be teaching kids right now instead of posting???
2007-10-22 07:57:21
57.   Josh Wilker
Thanks for the congrats, Alex. I appreciate it.

I'm not among the Red Sox fans now apparently able to make boasts like "We're winning this thing" (0 ). How can you ever say that in baseball? Maybe in basketball or football, when it becomes clear that one team has either figured out how to beat or is just physically superior to the opposition. Baseball is too unpredictable and random. You can never know. I'm never going to tell anyone how to root, but for me the legacy of '04 is not a belief in some kind of team invincibility in tough spots but rather in me being personally able to more fully enjoy the game. From '04 on it's all house money. Anyway, I'm definitely not counting any World Series chickens. The Rockies are a complete team, no weaknesses, loaded with hitters. (They've even got Christ on their side.)

2007-10-22 08:00:03
58.   joe in boston
56 Worksheets baby, worksheets......
2007-10-22 08:01:12
59.   Bronxer
Joe in Boston - ah, the life of a high school teacher .....
2007-10-22 08:04:52
60.   Bama Yankee
44 Yankz, what happened to Jeb?
2007-10-22 08:05:11
61.   NJYankee41
27 Actually I hate JD Drew, not for playing for Boston, but he rubs me as someone who plays for no other reason than money. And he reminds me of a certain unnamed pitcher regarding his flimsy injuries. And I've hated Lugo since his wife beating incident in Houston.

All I have to say about Papelbon's cockiness in comparison to Jeter's is: "cinco-ocho".

2007-10-22 08:08:29
62.   yankz
60 He wouldn't give the Suzyn-porno thing a rest, so Ken warned him a bunch of times. Then Jeb insulted him, and poof! Rob Gee all over again.
2007-10-22 08:09:25
63.   joe in boston
59 this isn't my principal is it ?!
2007-10-22 08:12:55
64.   Bronxer
63 - Stop using the school's internet bandwidth and start your lesson planning. These are tax dollars at use here ...
2007-10-22 08:26:48
65.   pistolpete
64 Eh, they're all probably little Sox fans - no amount of education's going to matter anyway... ;-)
2007-10-22 08:27:19
66.   Sliced Bread
Newsday has a very interesting write up on Randy Levine.

And the paper earns my eternal gratitude for not putting the Red Sox on today's backpage.

2007-10-22 08:28:26
67.   Bronxer
65 Nice touch.
2007-10-22 08:29:00
68.   Shaun P
Way off topic - but if this is true, I'm not sure if even Torre on BBTN would get me to ever watch ESPN again:

Rick Reilly Leaving Sports Illustrated for ESPN?

2007-10-22 08:33:09
69.   ms october
65 True- I was in an elementary school right outside of Boston for a literacy study on opening day and everyone in the place had on Red Sox gear.

68 Yeah - they basically swapped Dan Patrick for Rick Reilly.

2007-10-22 08:38:31
70.   joe in boston
For years, I had it made: the Yanks always won. Now I suffer ....
2007-10-22 08:38:33
71.   Bronxer
70 well organized - I like it.
2007-10-22 08:39:55
72.   Bronxer
70 As a concerned parent and member of the PTA, I'm concerned about spending tax dollars on teachers who play around on the internet during school hours ...
2007-10-22 08:40:07
73.   Yankee Fan In Boston
61 the drew and lugo thing was tongue in cheek. i didn't say that i agree with the "jeter is cocky" crowd. far from it. i can't stand papelbon, but i was just trying to see both sides of the issue.

54 yeah, so much has changed in 3 years. people here are proclaiming the sox world champions already. not the majority, but far more than the dom & gloomers of yesteryear. just keep reminding them of the moves that they made to get to this point. how they're "buying a championship." that bologna was all i heard for so long, i'll gladly dish that out when provoked.

2007-10-22 08:43:35
74.   joe in boston
73 I find myself falling back on telling them how hard it is to win 4 out of 5 WS, and 26 Rings, etc. It was easier when we always won
2007-10-22 08:44:32
75.   Bama Yankee
62 Thanks. So he got banned? Wow, I guess history has a way of repeating itself. I never took Jeb as the Rob Gee type (maybe he is Rob Gee?), maybe he will apologize and get back in.
2007-10-22 08:45:17
76.   Yankee Fan In Boston
74 sadly, those old chestnuts have gone stale. we need to evolve to survive in this environment.
2007-10-22 08:45:59
77.   NJYankee41
73 My bad, flew right over my head. I knew you weren't knocking Jeter, I was just giving my ultimate defense to those who would make such a comparison.
2007-10-22 08:46:50
78.   tommyl
I agree with whoever said many of the arrogant Sox "fans" are just bandwagon types. The same thing happened during the Yankees run. Suddenly all these people showed up bragging about the Yankees but didn't know who Charlie Hayes (or Karim Garcia ;) ) was.

There should be a rule, if you can't name at least three starting pitchers and 3/4 of your infield you cannot declare yourself a "fan."

2007-10-22 08:51:01
79.   Bronxer
78 All winning teams have their bandwagons. I like your idea.

Most Yankee and Red Sox fans are knowedgable - it's the wagon-jumping jerks who make both fan bases seem arrogant. I can remember many Yankee arrogant "fans" (loose described) during the late '90s. It's the same now, but they're wearing red.

2007-10-22 08:53:46
80.   Yankee Fan In Boston
79 indeed.

if i hadn't met a group of knowledgable, rational sox fans in my time here, i'd be nauseous right now. they are out there, people, they just aren't as loud as the rest of the people in the crowd, so they go unnoticed.

2007-10-22 08:54:58
81.   RIYank
FWIW, BP gives the Rockies a 56.3% chance to with the WS:

2007-10-22 08:55:40
82.   RIYank
80 The Patriots' success doesn't help, either. No sportstalk radio for me for at least a month.
2007-10-22 08:56:50
83.   JL25and3
46 Also, while the Rockies' starters might be mediocre, they play great defense.
2007-10-22 08:57:14
84.   Yankee Fan In Boston
80 to finish my thought, and i was reminded of this by your comment (79 ), but when i met my sox friends here in boston, they were amazed that a yankee fan could talk baseball with them without being a total jerk.

(eventually i let my true colors show, proving my jerkitude beyond any doubt.)

it is a sad part of having a successful run, but a price worth paying in the long run.

2007-10-22 08:59:42
85.   Yankee Fan In Boston
82 the patriots certainly add to this swelling of swagger.
2007-10-22 09:01:24
86.   tommyl
84 Agreed, I know a few knowledgeable Sox fans, or at least ones that recognize how much luck can be involved in a postseason run. If a Sox fan wants to come at me with how much better of a pitcher Beckett has been this year, how is K rate is way up, HR rate way down and he's been consistently better in the postseason than Wang, that's fine. I can talk to that person.

If they tell me that Papelbon is the greatest closer ever, when he had his first 2 inning "save" ever last night I just walk the other way. Also, any mention of David Ortiz's clutchiness.

2007-10-22 09:02:35
87.   Bronxer
2001 Diamondbacks - NL WS underdogs
2003 Marlins - NL WS underdogs
2006 Cardinals - NL WS underdogs
2007 Rockies - NL WS underdogs ...
2007-10-22 09:16:50
88.   Max
78 The bandwagon seems especially insufferable here because of how quick the turnaround was from "grizzly, fatalistic loser" types to the chest bumping, pink hat wearing "Red Sox all the way -- no one stops Manny and Ortiz and Youk and Theo!" types.

I mean, I've spent plenty of time around Cub fans and Notre Dame fans and Met fans and Kentucky basketball fans and other rabid fans in their own environment at times of great success for them. I have never seen a fan base turned obnoxious so rapidly by success as the Red Sox have in all my years of following sports. The marketing done by Red Sox management has been superb, but it's resulted in too many casual know-nothings declaring themselves "members" of "Red Sox Nation". And Bill Simmons -- case closed.

Trust me, these folks are already hated around much of the country. There was one year of feel-good triumphalism after 2004, and then most fans of other teams quickly saw the reality -- another high payroll team muscling its way to the top. Nothing wrong with that, except for the extreme entitlement of fans who somehow believe they're still cute loveable underdogs. it's time to drop the loveable dirt dog card and the "poor us -- we're up against the $200 million Yankees" schtick.

And for people who say I'm a hater, I point to the success of the Patriots as a counterpoint. I'm most definitely not a Patriot fan and can't stand Belichick, but I haven't felt besieged by the bandwagoning with what is arguably a much more impressive example of sports success with the Pats. I have a lot of respect for them and envy their fans (outside of video-gate).

2007-10-22 09:18:55
89.   pistolpete
87 One can only hope for a slow roller down the first base line by Jason Varitek in Game 6, and Jeff Francis (or whomever) tags him out to clinch the Series for the Rockies at Fenway.

Let em' all get a taste of THAT bitter pill.

2007-10-22 09:27:24
90.   Zack
Just like with the Indians, in theory, if the Rox can win one of the first 2, they are sitting pretty...but, of course, the Indians tried their hardest to prove that wrong
2007-10-22 09:30:11
91.   Zack
Well, looks like I'll be having a "fire day" here as my campus is closed due to unhealthy air conditions. Full day of trolling and posting about the Yanks for me!
2007-10-22 09:33:07
92.   nemecizer
I really can't be bothered to separate johnny-come-lately Sox fans from the "die hards". It was the die hards who (literally) spit on me when I used to go to Fenway while at MIT in the late 1990s. They're assholes. The fact that the wannabes are just as much scumbags as the rest of that lot is clear proof to me that being a Red Sox makes one retarded.

I hate 'em. I really do.

2007-10-22 09:37:58
93.   bbfan1
"Haters can say whatever they want about the Yanks, but the Joe Torre Yanks always respected their opponents. I'm getting a completely different vibe from the Sox and their fans these days."

Wait, so what's the difference between those haters and the haters on this board? Are you a hater? Of course not, because you only speak the truth right? Speak against the yankees = hater. But you read the comments up and down this board and that's not hating, that's just truth.

I love that you say boston fans don't respect their opponents, and yet read what's being written here about the sox. Don't get me wrong, there are some classy yankee fans, but most are not here. I think it has to do with over-the-top fans being drawn to message boards. Because most are, well, like unpopster. Hateful and probably 15 or 16.

So thanks for the congrats Alex. You're one of the good ones.

2007-10-22 09:47:03
94.   Max
93 I don't buy the line about the Yankees "respecting their opponents" any more than other teams do, but if you want to feel morally superior to fans on a message board (a classic case of damning yourself by the company you keep), you might want to pay attention to everything Alex wrote -- specifically the last part:

"Time to commiserate. Whatta ya got?"

Needless to say, you're not one of those fans deserving of very much respect if you're trying to pass moral judgement on people venting on a rival fans' board.

2007-10-22 09:48:02
95.   Mattpat11
I'm having Casey Blake related nightmares.
2007-10-22 09:51:42
96.   NJYankee41
95 Beard or baseball related? ;)
2007-10-22 10:05:54
97.   yankz
94 Damn, well put.
2007-10-22 10:15:23
98.   Sliced Bread
It feels different...
it's only been a few hours...
but I kinda like being a Rockies fan.
2007-10-22 10:37:15
99.   tommyl
98 Can I instead just root for half the games to be played in snow? Have the Rox been practicing with snowshoes on?
2007-10-22 10:37:35
100.   pistolpete
>> Don't get me wrong, there are some classy yankee fans, but most are not here. >>

Divide and conquer, brilliant.

>> But you read the comments up and down this board and that's not hating, that's just truth. >>

In baseball, the only truth we can grasp is a statistic.

In Boston, the only truth seems to be that the 'Yankees suck'. You've all had that same attitude since the dawn of time - you chant it at Super Bowl victory parades, you chant it at rock concerts, and I'm pretty sure I read about one time during a church service.

Your Stadium vendors sell T-shirts demeaning the Yankees' sexuality & your players obsess over what A-Rod's doing even after winning your World Series in '04. "Hating"...? RSN practically invented hating. So don't act so shocked & appalled now that your team is receiving a good amount of the venom.

That's the way it works. You win, you get hated on by the opposing team's fanbase. If it makes you feel uncomfortable, there's about 965 other sites that'll make you feel all warm & fuzzy about the Red Sox. comes to mind. :)

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-10-22 11:00:09
101.   joe in boston
100 Wow, right on the money. Awesome
2007-10-22 11:02:29
102.   tommyl
100 Haha, at least in Philly they chant for the Eagles. Now why they do that in April at a Phillies game is beyond me, but hey, at least its positive.

Any fan base whose most popular chant is "Yankees suck" and its variations should look itself in the mirror before spouting off about "haters."

2007-10-22 11:12:32
103.   JL25and3
86 In the first few years of the Yankee run - when 1991 was still a vivid and bitter memory for some of us - I thought the shibboleth should be: Name a Yankee shortstop before Derek Jeter.

And thanks for giving me the chance to use the word "shibboleth."

2007-10-22 11:36:25
104.   pistolpete
103 Fernandez, Stankiewicz, Espinoza, Meacham - those are the only ones off the top of my head right now. Yikes, only 4 - am I a bad fan? ;)
2007-10-22 11:44:46
105.   tommyl
103 No problem, but 104 beat me to it. I just remember going to games in the late 80s when I was in elementary school, sitting way up high and calling Dave, "Spaghetti Righetti." Why we found this funny, I'll never know, but hey, you're only 8 once :). I also remember being in awe of my best friend because he could name the entire Giants roster, in alphabetical or numerical order.
2007-10-22 19:12:48
106.   weeping for brunnhilde
105 "Spaghetti Righetti!"

Ha ha ha haha h a!!

That's so adorable.

2007-10-22 19:14:32
107.   weeping for brunnhilde
104 Roy Smalley and what-the-fuck was his name...Wayne Tollison!

And Andre Robertson.

And that guy with the glasses...came over from California, I think...

And Butch Hobson! No, not really, he was 3B, but he popped into my head, stream-of-consciousness like.

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