Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
Still Bossy (after all these years)
2007-10-07 08:00
by Alex Belth
Note: The Bronx Banter blog has moved to

Ian O'Conner of the Bergen Record gets the money scoop of the season: he talks to the Boss directly on the phone. I'm happy to report that the Boss sounds like the same old Boss you always knew and loved to hate.

"I have full control," Steinbrenner says of his organization. "I'm doing all right, I'm fine." The Boss is angry that the Yankees lost the first two games of the ALDS--"They'd better show what they're made of," he said.

Dig this Vintage George 101:

On Torre:

"His job is on the line," the Yankees' owner said in a phone interview. "I think we're paying him a lot of money. He's the highest-paid manager in baseball, so I don't think we'd take him back if we don't win this series."

On Bruce Froemming:

"The umpire was full of [expletive]," Steinbrenner said of the retiring Froemming. "He won't umpire our games anymore."

In the wake of that Game 2 defeat, Steinbrenner said the Yankees had complained to baseball commissioner Bud Selig about the decision to play on. "[Selig] just said, 'That's in the umpires' hands,' " Steinbrenner said. "But Jesus Christ, it was terrible. It messed up the whole team, [Derek] Jeter, all of them."

On Alex Rodriguez:

"I think we'll re-sign him," Steinbrenner said of Rodriguez. "I think he's going to have a good run the rest of the [postseason]. I think he realizes New York is the place to be, the place to play. A lot of this [postseason] is laying on his shoulders, you know, but I think he's up to it."

Well, there you have it. The King, thought to be lost, reminds us that above all, this is still is his team. We all know his bite can be worse than his bark. If the Yankees lose tonight, all bets are off.

No pressure, guys.

Comments (74)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-10-07 08:47:17
1.   Yankees Chick
2 things....

1 - when is torre's job NOT on the line in big stein's mind?!

2- and this is an honest question, not a smart-ass one... does a team actually have a say in whether an ump can officiate for them? i would think not...

2007-10-07 08:52:12
2.   JeremyM
1 It reads stronger than it really is- the article says the guy is retiring so he won't be umpiring ANY games. George's comment almost makes it seem like the Yankees are going to Luco Brasi the guy.
2007-10-07 08:53:39
3.   Eric
Welcome to the Banter YC
2007-10-07 08:54:32
4.   Mark T.R. Donohue
1 , 2 The only way he could umpire any more of their games is if they made it to another round of the playoffs. So what George is really saying is he doesn't think the Yankees are going any further???
2007-10-07 08:56:22
5.   Max
It's really not news that Joe is toast if they lose..since 2004, it's amazing how he's held on. I think this is George just trying to pump out what life he has left to light a fire under the team, somehow.

With that said, Piniella really looked impressive managing those heavy favorite Cubs, didn't he?

2007-10-07 08:56:40
6.   JeremyM
4 Or maybe he really is going to be sleeping with the fishes?
2007-10-07 09:12:37
7.   Cliff Corcoran
4 Actually, he'll ump the game tonight. The crews travel with the series in the postseason.
2007-10-07 09:21:30
8.   Mark T.R. Donohue
7 You're absolutely right. I should know that.
2007-10-07 09:26:18
9.   Bob Timmermann
Also I think there are different crews for the next two rounds.
2007-10-07 09:40:13
10.   OldYanksFan
Common people... think about it.
1) Of all years, this is the year Torre is most likely to win "Manager of the Year"

EVERYONE wrote this team off. There are dozens of "NO Chance" quotes from 'reknown' writers. We set records for rookie pitchers debuts, we have serious injury problems early on. This was a BANNER YEAR for Torre. His hardest and his best.

Just imagine Lou, or someone else at the helm when we were 21-29. You think we would be in the PS now?

George is smart. He would NOT make an announcement like that if it would hurt the team. No owner is his right mind (although is that an issue for George?) would make a statement like that at this point in time.... unless.....
Can YOU think of a better way to light a fire under Clemen's ass, no less Jeter's, Posada's, and everyone elses then to threaten Torre's job?

Maybe Torre will go. And while sitting Giambi and other moves are questionable, our 2 loses so far are primarily on the shoulders of (1) Bugs (2) Wang (3) Posada and Matsui (4) The WHOLE DAMN OFFENSE!

So maybe Torre will go, just because it might be in time. But EVERYONE on the Yankee team credits Torre for holding this team together, when they themselves didn't really believe they would make the PS.

2007-10-07 09:42:51
11.   yankz
10 I'm with you. Torre's not responsible for these two losses.

But it's been a long time for George, and he might feel change is necessary.

2007-10-07 09:45:39
12.   3rd gen yankee fan
I just like the fact that George feels like he needs to light a fire under everyone's ass. Good ol' George. Glad to see he's still kickin.
2007-10-07 09:48:12
13.   thelarmis
yes, torre's job seems to always be on the line. i wonder if vets like jeter, mo and jorgie would/could lobby for JT to stay. i keep seeing if he goes, so would guidry, pena and bowa. i can understand guidry going. i like pena as a base/catcher coach. i'd have less reservations w/ bowa at the helm than girardi/mattingly/other.

if guidry goes, i'm down w/ dave eiland stepping up. i think it's more the talent of the arms that are/were in our system, but he seemed to well harnessing them.

yeah, as far as the umps, that was classic Boss! everyone knows froemming is retiring, big stein just wanted to phrase it like he had some say in the matter. as if. if teams were actually able to pick and choose the umpiring team, laz diaz, cb bucknor and especially angel hernandez, would be outta work.

well, fuck it, let's just go out and win.


2007-10-07 09:53:25
14.   MainLineYankee
I think it's time to change managers, regardless of the outcome of this divisional playoff series. The Yanks need someone with some fire, like Joe Girardi, especially since the team is now getting younger. Torre has never been good with young players. They usually just rot on his bench. Just look at what happened to Shelly Duncan this year! And at the risk of being excommunicated from the A-Rod love-in that Bronx Banter is known for, I say let A-Rod leave. Do we need any more evidence that his body of work in the playoffs is terrible, consistently? Spend the A-Rod money more wisely on what is becoming a phenomenal minor league system! That having been said, Go Yankees! And I have high hopes for a three-game winning streak against the Indians!
2007-10-07 09:53:40
15.   Sarasota
Nice to hear from the old Boss again vs the filtered Boss via the PR flack. That said, Torre isn't the reason why this team isn't winning this series. The offense didn't come thru the first night, and the bullpen sukced in game 1 and 2 (except for MO); Jaba threw 2 wild pitches in that inning while the Indians' shut the Yanks down. I'm tired of the excuses. Play, win, or go home already. I'm hoping they win. Go Yanks!!
2007-10-07 09:57:01
16.   Yankees Chick
Torre has proven himself to be the best man for the job when it comes to relating to his players and keeping spirits up, etc. case in point: the 2nd half of this season. The injuries and slumps of the first couple months were not his fault, but he had a lot to do with getting them to the post-season. I know he has a lot of trouble managing the bullpen, but it is the players that blew it on thursday and friday, not joe.
2007-10-07 10:02:41
17.   yankz
14 What happened to Shelley Duncan?

Also, who plays 3B next year? More importantly, where do you get 54 HR and 156 RBI? The minor leagues?

2007-10-07 10:06:07
18.   MainLineYankee
Give me a break Mr. Yankz. What is Torre's reputation with younger players? How many HR's and RBI's has A-Rod hit in the playoffs? The Diamondbacks and Rockies don't have anyone with that kind of firepower, and they are in the NLCS. Are you telling me that the only way the Yanks make the playoffs next year is if A-Rod is back? If that's the case, then Cashman should be fired, as well, because it is foolish to build your team around a great slugger who never hits the ball in the playoffs.
2007-10-07 10:06:10
19.   MainLineYankee
Give me a break Mr. Yankz. What is Torre's reputation with younger players? How many HR's and RBI's has A-Rod hit in the playoffs? The Diamondbacks and Rockies don't have anyone with that kind of firepower, and they are in the NLCS. Are you telling me that the only way the Yanks make the playoffs next year is if A-Rod is back? If that's the case, then Cashman should be fired, as well, because it is foolish to build your team around a great slugger who never hits the ball in the playoffs.
2007-10-07 10:09:35
20.   Sarasota
A Rod carried this team at times this year. No A Rod no playoffs. Yanks already in better position next year with Hughes, Kennedy and Jaba.
2007-10-07 10:11:06
21.   williamnyy23
I am not sure why anyone would be surprised that Joe Torre is going to be held accountable for the team's performance. Torre has survived poorly managed post seasons since 2003, so it's not like he is being held to an unfair standard.

I agree completely with 14 . Torre has consistently managed poorly in the playoffs since Popeye left his side. Off the top of my head, I think you can pin the following on Joe in this series alone:

1) Not starting Wang at home, despite not one or two, but three years of splits that clearly show he is a full 1.5 runs better at home. That isn't a trivial amount. It's huge...and Torre completely ignored it.

2) Starting Matsui twice despite his having horrendous ABs. What's more, he has kept him in the middle of the lineup, and worse, as Arod's protection in Game 2. One major difference between game 1 and 2 is Arod looked more anxious to swing in the latter. Well, can you blame him? While Posada was providing back up in game 1, Arod looked more willing to take a walk. With Matsui's feeble bat behind him, however, Arod went out of the zone. If you were Cleveland, why would you even throw Alex a strike with Matsui struggling so mightly behind him.

3) Not hitting and running with Arod up to alleviate some pressure, and not putting on many plays at all, despite the offense struggling so much.

4) Giving up on game 1 when it was only 7-3 in the 5th inning. Did it really make sense to bring Ohlendorf in when the game was still in play.

5) Wasting Hughes in game 1 garbage time instead of saving him for game 2, when he would have been a better option than Vizcaino.

6) Not realizing that Joba was completely flustered by the bugs and summoning Mo to save the game. While this one is a pure second guess, I am not paid to manage the team. Joe is. In retrospect, he should have seen that Joba was bothered by the bugs. He could have gotten Mo up at the last minute and then gone out to have a 10 minute argument with Froemming. Heck, he didn't even suggest to Froemming that the game be delayed. As usual, Joe fiddled while Rome burned.

7) Allowing Veras and Ohlendorf to win a roster spot based on end of season innings, while leaving Britton off, even though he has the best track record of throwing strikes.

These are all fair criticisms of Torre and, when combined with his past postseason gaffes (Weaver walk off; no bunting on Schilling; no stealing on Wakefield; Batting Arod 8th; etc.), expose Torre's role in the Yankees failure to win a playoff series in 3 years.

If the Yankees drop out early again, Joe has to go. Bringing him back would be the height of foolishness.

2007-10-07 10:13:26
22.   MainLineYankee
I agree Sarasota. My point is, it is dangerous to build your team around A-Rod. We were lucky he chose this year to have a career year. If he had hit 35 homers and drove in 120 runs, we wouldn't be in the playoffs. Can A-Rod be expected to hit 54 HRs and 156 RBIs every year? Don't think so. And what do we do about his consistently minor-league-like performance?
2007-10-07 10:13:49
23.   williamnyy23
18 You mean except for all the years that he has? You're right's foolish to build your team around one of the best players in baseball. Sure, it worked with guys like Ruth, Mantle and DiMaggio, but that was just luck.
2007-10-07 10:20:45
24.   MainLineYankee
Williamnyy23, is that your understanding of Yankee history? That it was just Ruth and a bunch of hacks who played with him? Those guys that you mentioned were just one piece of an incredible machine. In addition, check the stats. You'll see that Ruth, Mantle and DiMaggio performed in the World Series as you would expect great players would. A-Rod's post-season performance is an embarrassment when you compare it the Yankees of yesterday.
2007-10-07 10:21:33
25.   SF Yanks
14 You're forgetting that NOBODY is hitting. Not just Alex. Not one Yankee is hitting. How you can put the blame on Alex is beyond me.

Re: Torre leaving. What I think about when Torre leaves are the players. I almost feel like Jete, Mo, Po, and some others will treat the new manager like some new kid that doesn't belong. All those guys know is Torre. It must be weird for them having to listen to "get fired up" speeches from some newcomer. Are they going to celebrate just as much if they win the '08 regular season with their new adopted father? It's just weird. It's Torre's team, the players love him, so do I, let him stay for cryin' out loud.

Are Mo and Po really going to want to re-sign and play for a new manager? What if they don't resign because of it? Isn't it then a huge mistake to let Torre go?

I almost want to see Mo and Po leave along with all the coaches and the for the team to fall apart because of this. Not really, but in another world.

2007-10-07 10:24:41
26.   MainLineYankee
SF Yanks, you're right, no one is hitting. But A-Rod's past post-season performance suggests that he will continue to stink. Can you really say that about Jeter, for example? I doubt players are going to act against their own best interests just to have a major-league caliber temper tantrum and sign with another team. But if Mo and Jorge are as petulant as you say they are, why haven't we seen any evidence of this kind of juvenile behavior so far?
2007-10-07 10:31:28
27.   williamnyy23
24 Are you calling the team the Yankees have on the field a bunch of hacks? If not, your point is irrelevant. Having Arod doesn't mean the Yankees can't field a strong team. Losing him, however, considerably weakens it.

As for Arod's post season performance, have you even bothered to look at his numbers, or do you just prefer to make baseless statements. Arod's career post season numbers are .268/.357/.464. He has been very good in 4 series and bad in 4 series. That's hardly the record you portray. What's more, do you know what Dimaggio's post season line's .271/.338/.422. Compare that to Arod. As for Mantle, check out his numbers from 1961 to 1963. Like any superstar, Mantle wasn't perfect and suffered a pretty bad 3 year post season run. Why, exactly, do you think Arod should be condemned for having similar struggles?

You keep talking about facts...I suggest you actually check them out.

2007-10-07 10:33:13
28.   SF Yanks
21 William, are you Yankee 21 over at LoHud? If not then your long lost twin is residing just over yonder.

Why do I get the feeling that if Torre did all those things you suggested, you would "create" another list of things to hound him with? I could be wrong, but I think its gotten to the point that you look for any reason at all to add to your list. Thing is William, if you watch every post season game, you and I could compile a list like that for every manger. So what is it you really want? A perfect managger? Not gonna happen. You're going to get your wish, I just hope you know what you're wishing for.

2007-10-07 10:34:55
29.   MainLineYankee
Mr. Williamnyy23, you need a reality check. Would you rather have A-Rod over DiMaggio or Mantle in the playoffs? If so, then you deserve a seat next to Mr. Torre, who hopefully will be gone after the post-season, and my vote is for Joe Girardi.
2007-10-07 10:36:32
30.   SF Yanks
26 I haven't checked the stats but since game 4 in '04 who has been hitting? Alex is very capable of hitting in the post season and has done so in the past. Its not like its only his bat that has went cold the last few years. Everyones has.
2007-10-07 10:37:24
31.   williamnyy23
28 I do not post on LoHud.

What in the litany above do you disagree with? If it was one or two, that'd be one thing, but each post season, Torre racks up a laundry list. Unless Torre is the only manager who can handle a clubhouse, I don't see why the team should continue to put up with his poor game management. Torre has had a very long and lucrative run as Yankee manager. He isn't a sacred cow and he isn't owed anything. The only way I would retain Torre would be if I didn't believe I could find a better candidate. I find it hard to believe there isn't one good manager in waiting out there.

2007-10-07 10:37:49
32.   MainLineYankee
I hope A-Rod proves me wrong tonight and breaks out in a huge way and carries the Yankes to the ALCS and beyond.
2007-10-07 10:40:11
33.   williamnyy23
29 I take that to mean you didn't bother to check the stats? You said Arod has never hit in the post season...that's wrong. You implied DiMaggio and Mantle were always good in the post season...that's wrong too. All three players have had their ups and downs in the post season. I'd take any of the three because I realize that it's silly to condemn superstars for struggling. You can't seem to understand that...and seem willing to ignore facts so you can keep believing in your argument.
2007-10-07 10:44:20
34.   williamnyy23
30 Exactly...also, while Arod has been bad, anyone who has actually watched all the ABs can attest to the fact that he hasn't received many pitches to hit, probably because no one else has been hitting either. Look at 2004, everyone slammed Arod, but he had a .381 OBP. Why? Because the Angels game plan was to never give a strike. The same has been true in this series. It's easy to blame Arod, but when judged in the context of the entire offense, he doesn't stand out for blame at all.
2007-10-07 10:50:31
35.   MainLineYankee
To all of you A-Rod lovers: Excuses, excuses, excuses. Did the Dodgers want to pitch to Mr. October? And why does A-Rod swing at balls that are obviously out of the strike zone? He knows better, he just can't help himself, because he is choking in the post-season. It's called panic-attack, anxiety, etc. The DSM-IV has very useful information about A-Rod and why he is so predictable in how he chokes when you need him to maintain his composure.
2007-10-07 10:54:25
36.   williamnyy23
35 Your "Arod lovers" comments exposes your true motivation, so I probably shouldn't indulge your argument, but I'll try one more time to ask you back up your claims with facts?

By the way, do you know what Mr. October's LCS averages were. How about .227/.298/.380. Reggie did all his damage in the World Series, but seldom did much to get his team there. Had Reggie's teams slumped as much as Arod's have, he would never had gotten the chance to be Mr. October and guys like you would be making similar baseless claims.

2007-10-07 10:57:10
37.   Yankees Chick
mainline... that's exactly what I said about a-rod earlier on this thread - he needs some therapy, prozac, and perhaps the soothing words of the yankees chick to ease his anxiety.

he is painful to watch such a talented guy psych himself out. i can hardly watch when he's up to bat.

does that mean we should count him out? no. i'm still holding out hope that he'll come through.

2007-10-07 10:58:16
38.   MainLineYankee
Mr. Williamnyy23, your use of statistics to prove your point demonstrates the pointlessness of statistics. Let me be the one to bring you down to earth. When has A-Rod ever had a "Reggie" moment in the post-season? Try never! Your post proves my point, that Bronx Banter is comprised of a bunch of kids who suck up to A-Rod and know nothing about Yankee history.
2007-10-07 10:59:36
39.   MainLineYankee
I agree Yankees Chick. As much as I think the Yanks' reliance on A-Rod is wrong-headed, I am rooting for A-Rod tonight and it will be a great story if he snaps out of his funk.
2007-10-07 10:59:43
40.   williamnyy23
More fun facts that make baseless arguments difficult to justify:

Willie Mays in the post season: .247/.323/.337

Why did the Giants put up with the bum?

2007-10-07 11:01:58
41.   williamnyy23
38 Thank you've pretty much exposed yourself as someone who doesn't need to be taken seriously. I am sorry to scare you with those big bad's ok to come out from under your rock now.
2007-10-07 11:05:05
42.   MainLineYankee
I will let you have the last word Mr. Williamnyy23. I have to go mow my lawn. Go Yankees!
2007-10-07 11:05:23
43.   williamnyy23
For those not frightened by scary stats (aka, the Truth), here are some post season series when Arod did well:

1997 alds: .313 .313 .563
2000 ALCS: .409 .480 .773
2004 ALDS#: .421 .476 .737
2004 ALCS#: .258 .378 .516

#with the Yankees

2007-10-07 11:20:36
44.   Simone
21 Joe, blah, blah ... I bet you make out with Joe in your sleep.

28 I remember when the same spiels about Mel were overtaking the Banter. Rick Peterson or any other pitching coach was supposed to be the answer to the Yankee pitching woes. Mel was fired/forced out and nothing has changed.

2007-10-07 11:21:33
45.   williamnyy23
44 Thanks for reading.
2007-10-07 11:23:44
46.   Sarasota
A Rod and Torre are not the problem, nor are they the ultimate answer......pitching is.
It should be expected that a NY Yankees team with Petite, Jaba, and Mo pitching be accountable in the playoffs to hold onto a 1-0 lead.
Finally, why isn't Cashman taking more heat. He's the damn architect isn't he??
2007-10-07 11:26:32
47.   williamnyy23
46 I think 1 bug aided run in 10 innings is pretty much all you can ask from Pettitte, Joba and Mo. You can't fault the pitching for losing game 2.

Cashman isn't taking more heat because he has been rebuilding while keeping the team in contention. There are areas he could have done better, but if the manager and players performed better, the team wouldn't be getting bounced in the first round.

2007-10-07 11:31:22
48.   Sarasota
46 No excuses. They failed to execute the pitches in the 8th.
2007-10-07 11:31:25
49.   JeremyM
I don't think A-Rod looks that nervous. He's just getting beat. When he was spraying bug spray on everyone, including the umps, he was laughing and seemed to be enjoying himself. The numbers are bad, there's no doubt. But he's not a choker. I just hope he starts hitting tonight so all this bullshit will go away.
2007-10-07 11:33:20
50.   williamnyy23
48 You can take that attitude, but I am going to allow having your neck covered in bugs and hands drenched in pesticide as a reason for losing the strike zone. Regardless, allowing 1 run in 10 innings is excellent, bugs or no bugs.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-10-07 11:38:50
51.   Sarasota
50 it's got nothing to do with attitude. The Yanks played a great game, they came up short. They failed to execute. Both teams played under the same conditions. In the end the Yankees (in this case Jaba unfortunately) didn't execute his pitches. Vizcaino...well we all know about him.
2007-10-07 11:46:32
52.   weeping for brunnhilde
10 Not to sound like a broken record, and I'm not just saying this out of affection for Jorgie, but I really don't think he's been bad.

They've all been bad. Jorgie actually hit a couple of balls hard Friday night, which is more than the rest of them could say.

I hope I'm not just being irrational here, but I just don't see why Jorgie, of all people, should be PE Number One (Five-O said "Freeze!" and I got numb. Can I tell him that i really never had a gun, but it's the wax that the Terminator-X spun."--sorry, couldn't resist).

Seriously, why Jorgie and not Derek or Alex?

Frankly, I really don't think we have any clearly identifiable goats on the offensive side of the ledger.

2007-10-07 11:46:40
53.   Raf
10 Two words; Dick Howser. Steinbrenner has a history of doing stupid things that he thinks will make the team "play better."
2007-10-07 11:49:15
54.   williamnyy23
51 Again, I disagree. Both team didn't play under similar conditions. The swarm was most severe when Joba was on the mound. Personally, I don't think an attack of insects counts as a game condition, but if you think he should have been able to perservere, that's fine. I just find it hard to believe the argument that says the bugs didn't impact the outcome.
2007-10-07 11:49:25
55.   OldYanksFan
Willy... I'm gonna respond to your statement in 21 mainly in hopes that others will chime in. You raised many valid points, but I would like to know what OTHERS think.

1) Not starting Wang at home. My guess is polling 100 knowledgeable candiddates would yield a 60/40 split for Wang pitching 2 games on full rest

2) Starting Matsui twice Agreed. A have been stating that Giambi should play in the PS since a month before the PS.

3) Not hitting and running with ARod There haven't been many opportunites, and running into an out in a 1 run game is not good. I have no opinion... it's nit picking.

4) Giving up on game 1 I don't know if bringing in Ohlendorf constitutes giving up. I'm glad we saved JabaMo for game 2. I might have brought Hughes in instead. Again, the options were limited. I don't see this move as a 'fu*kup'.

5) Wasting Hughes in game 1 Who would you have brought in? It was a move that surprised me.

6) Not realizing that Joba was completely flustered I was fine will Joba. I would like to have seen Torre put up a fuss, but Froemming wasn't delaying the game.

7) Allowing Veras and Ohlendorf So you wanted Britton instead of Veras? Fine. They both have potential, they are both unreliable right now. I can't say you are right, but you may be.

PLEASE. Lets hear some other opinions.

2007-10-07 11:51:19
56.   JeremyM
52 Chuck D, my man! I love PE.
2007-10-07 11:52:00
57.   williamnyy23
52 Jorge whiffed on two huge ABs in game 1. Also, his inability to corral Mo's K in the 10th could have prolonged the inning to the point that he wasn't available for the 11th. I love Jorge too, but he isn't a bad PE 1.
2007-10-07 11:56:28
58.   OldYanksFan
52 Jorge came up TWICE with RISP (once, bases loaded) and ONE out, and failed twice. Long fly, BB, hit... there are lots of ways he could have produced. I believe that he struck out on Ball 4 with the based loaded.

Nobody is calling Jorge PE. He just disappointed us, as he had the 2 best spots to affect the game in a positive way.

2007-10-07 11:57:22
59.   williamnyy23
55 I wont debate your responses because none are unreasonable. I will however answer the one question that seems directed to me:

(5) I wouldn't have brought in Hughes AFTER Ohlendorf and Veras. I would have brought Hughes in after Wang or not at all. Once he decided to let Ohlendorf add fuel to the fire, I would have let both he and Veras take one for the team. One other option could have been to give Viz an inning to see what he had. After struggling so much down the stretch, it would have been better to take a look at what he had instead of crossing your fingers.

2007-10-07 11:58:22
60.   williamnyy23
57 Strike that...I think Wang is PE 1 because he clearly dissapointed more than any other single performer.
2007-10-07 12:04:23
61.   weeping for brunnhilde
49 I think he's maybe a tad jumpy. Nothing like in years past, but that last pitch he struck out on, that sinker or cutter or whatever it was that kind of dive-bombed towards his toes (iirc), his swing was a bit on the savage side. It was a savage pitch, so I'm not getting too worked up about it, but still, there was room for a shorter swing there.

It was strange, actually, because he'd done such a good job of fouling of the previous pitches, which had me feeling confident.

Oh well, tonight he'll fatten up.

He'd better.

They'd all better.

2007-10-07 12:04:47
62.   Raf
55 To chime in

1) I would've started "the ace" in two games instead of one.

2) Also agreed; I would've started Giambi either @ 1b or DH in at least one game

3) Agreed, there haven't been many opportunities. With they'd use it more in general

4) I was surprised to see Ohlendorf in so early (thought he'd be the last man out the pen), but I didn't think he would do as bad as he did. Can't really fault Torre for bringing him in.

5) The move also surprised me, but I know he needed the work.

RE: 4 & 5, play today's game today, worry about tomorrow's game tomorrow.

6) Can't really fault Joba. Personally, I think Posada could've done a better job on the wild pitches, but it's one of those things that, to me, could've gone either way.

7) I would've rather have had Britton, but once again, it's something that could work out as easily as it backfires.

2007-10-07 12:05:36
63.   weeping for brunnhilde
50 Agreed.
2007-10-07 12:08:53
64.   OldYanksFan
59 I will agree EXCEPT I don't assume that Dorf would have been bad. He was. I don't assume that Wang will be bad. He was. Torre knows that Joba and Mo are better the Dorf and Viz, but he HAS to assume (hope) that they are effective.

I believe he used Dorf, then planned to have Hughes go to the 7th or 8th, and then see what the score was. But your statement that Torre GAVE UP on the game is unfair.

2007-10-07 12:10:32
65.   OldYanksFan
It it worth the energy to root against the Sox? The Angels has Weaver going. Do the Halos even have a prayer? Is the manager stupid for starting Weaver?
2007-10-07 12:13:28
66.   weeping for brunnhilde
55 Yes, william's points are compelling, as usual.

2) Agreed. Just like starting Justice when it was clear to anyone with eyes to see he couldn't hit the broadside of a barn with a paddle. It's a serious problem of his to go with his guys even when his guys are clearly not capable of performing as they are wont to do. It's human beings, not the backs of baseball cards he's putting in there. If Hideki broke his leg would Joe send him out there on crutches because, after all, Hideki's our guy?
3) Agreed.
6) I don't know about taking Joba out, but certainly, he should have argued for a "rain delay" or something, anything to slow down the action and regroup.

I don't know, but watching from home, I was AMAZED they allowed baseball to be played. My wife remarked it was worse than rain.

I mean, standing in against a fastball with the possibility of a bug flying in your eye at any moment?

Joe should have played the game under protest or something. Anything.

As to the pitching issues, not my forte, so I can't offer a particularly reasoned opinion.

2007-10-07 12:14:06
67.   williamnyy23
64 I don't think he literally gave up, but think bringing Ohlendorf into the game amounted to as much. Unlike you, I wasn't expecting much from Ohlendorf. Clearly, Joe was, and I think that was his error.
2007-10-07 12:16:25
68.   weeping for brunnhilde
57 58 I understand. The PB was egregious.
The fact that he K'd in those spots, though, seemed more a product of superior pitching than Jorgie losing focus, being over-anxious, etc.

But point taken.

2007-10-07 12:16:56
69.   weeping for brunnhilde
60 Agreed.
2007-10-07 12:53:26
70.   Yankees Chick
lineups are set...

2007-10-07 13:36:27
71.   3rd gen yankee fan
Should I bother flipping out because Mats is in the lineup?
2007-10-07 13:41:44
72.   cult of basebaal
71 be angry at the sun for setting
if these things anger you ...
2007-10-07 13:44:15
73.   cult of basebaal
dammit, is it 3:30 yet??? how much longer must i watch the utter ineptitude of the anaheim angels gritty small ballers
2007-10-07 13:51:14
74.   Yankees Chick
3rd gen yankee fan - - -

I dont like it either. it just makes NO sense to me.... we need dougie at first, put giambi at DH, and we can always have Mats come in later. Matsui has good #s against Westbrook, but that was when he was at 100% (or at least 90%). He's NOT at 100% right now, not even close.

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