Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
On a Sunny Afternoon
2007-09-02 06:56
by Alex Belth
Note: The Bronx Banter blog has moved to

We all know how well Andy Pettitte performs after a Yankee loss. Here's hoping homeslice can hack it after a Yankee win. With an important series against a reeling Seattle team starting tomorrow (with Felix Hernandez on the hill), this am be a big 'un to win.

Let's Go Yan-Kees.

Comments (290)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-09-02 07:59:02
1.   Mike T
I am very much looking forward to that series with the Mariners. What has happened to them? Also, I would like to say congratulations to that kid with the Red Sox throwing a no-hitter yesterday in his second major league start. Impressive.
2007-09-02 08:16:14
2.   BklynBmr
A tidbit on Moose that caught me off guard (from Bob Klapisch): "Actually, the Yankees believe Mussina still has talent, but that he's paying the price for letting himself get out of shape last winter. One insider said, "He got his [two-year] contract and didn't do a thing after that. Now his arm is shot and it's too late to build it back up."


I'd never heard anything negative about his work ethic...

1 Yeah, kudos to Buchholz. has a list of the now 20 rookies to throw a no-no, and notes that not one of them made the HOF:

Let's go Big Game Andy. Boot to the throat today!

2007-09-02 08:19:13
3.   seamus
2 I've heard that Moose works out hard. I've never heard that he loafed it. I can't believe he is that stupid.
2007-09-02 08:28:50
4.   BklynBmr
3 Agreed. FWIW, I don't think he has gained or lost a pound in the last 15 years. I believe we'll see the good Moose again for a stretch before it's all said and done. In what role, I dunno?
2007-09-02 08:42:59
5.   JeremyM
After Mussina had the arm trouble a couple years ago, didn't he stop throwing during the off-season? Maybe that's what they're referring to here.

I don't know, but the guy has a lot of mileage on his arm; it's not unreasonable that father time has caught up with him and there's nothing (legal) he could've done to stop it. That said, I think we would all like him to figure out a way to pitch successfully even with diminished stuff, like others have done.

2007-09-02 08:44:16
6.   joe in boston
You know, I've been thinking for awhile now: If Moose is supposed to be so bright, so cerebral...why doesn't he realize he has to pitch "smarter" (like Glavine, Smoltz for example) as he gets older ?
2007-09-02 08:47:42
7.   seamus
6 what do you mean? Isn't Moose's whole game premised on pitching "smart" by using different speeds and hitting spots?
2007-09-02 08:49:15
8.   Mike T
Is Chamberlain back from his suspension now?
2007-09-02 08:52:32
9.   BklynBmr
The lineup (via LoHud):

Damon LF
Jeter SS
Abrreu RF
Rodriguez 3B
Matsui DH
Posada C
Cano 2B
Phillips 1B
Cabrera CF
Pettitte LHP (12-7, 3.70)

8 Yes, he's available today.

2007-09-02 08:55:20
10.   mehmattski
Help me, help me, help me from this squeeeeeeze
I got a big fat momma tryin to break meeeee

Oh I look to live so pleasantly
Live this life of luxury
Blazin On a Sunny Afternoon
In the summertime
In the summertime...

2007-09-02 09:00:04
11.   Sliced Bread
I hope Joe doesn't use Joba this afternoon "just because." Joba Amendment for today: He shall be unleashed only if the game is tied, or tight.

Why waste him with Skeattle on deck?

10 love that one!

2007-09-02 09:01:40
12.   BklynBmr
Also from Pete A: "Buchholz was taken with one of the compensation draft picks the Red Sox got for Pedro Martinez"... There are some here who know the amateur draft history inside out, but it seems more often than not, teams' 'compensation' picks turn out better than regular top picks. How does that work? Are teams primarliy choosing other teams top picks? Just wondering...
2007-09-02 09:02:03
13.   joe in boston
7 Yeah, I guess I hear what you're saying....maybe it's the combination of losing 3-4 mph on his fastball and his inability to locate his stuff. From what I've seen- there's not enough difference between his fastball and his other pitches.
2007-09-02 09:06:56
14.   mehmattski
12 My guess is that big market teams like the Red Sox and Yankees usually pick towards the bottom of the first round. So when they get a compensation pick, it's because they lost a big free agent to a team that is likely ahead of them in the draft order. So it stands to reason that when the Yankees (Hughes) and Red Sox (Buchholz) get compensation picks, they're going to be able to draft better players than normally. Similarly, sandwich picks allow teams to draft more talented players than they would if they had no sandwich picks.
2007-09-02 09:13:17
15.   Sliced Bread
re: LoHud. Would Pete Abe, and every other person who cares about baseball please stop bringing up Girardi's inability go get along with the Marlins ownership as a strike against him? He worked for assholes and regarded them as such. If anything that makes his accomplishments with the team even greater.
I'm not guaranteeing Girardi would be the perfect choice to take the Yanks over the top, but I'd take my chances on him over Donnie (whom I also believe would be fine).
2007-09-02 09:17:54
16.   fansince77
In reference to Moose (and I've been thinking this for quite awhile now) Wouldn't it be great to see him in relief? a two-three inning guy? I think having the quirky Moose come into a game in say the 6th or 7th would be a great way to keep teams off balance. Call me nuts...but I wouldn't mind seeing Moose and Rocket both in that role- while our rotation moves to Wang, Pettite, Joba, Kennedy, ?

Think how sick we'd be across the board then?

2007-09-02 09:18:50
17.   fansince77
In reference to Moose (and I've been thinking this for quite awhile now) Wouldn't it be great to see him in relief? a two-three inning guy? I think having the quirky Moose come into a game in say the 6th or 7th would be a great way to keep teams off balance. Call me nuts...but I wouldn't mind seeing Moose and Rocket both in that role- while our rotation moves to Wang, Pettite, Joba, Kennedy, Hughes

Think how sick we'd be across the board then?

2007-09-02 09:35:45
18.   seamus
13 I think that is the issue. Unfortunately, it can be hard on a pitcher when he starts losing his velocity. We'll see, since Moose's new fastball speed is probably too slow to be effective.
2007-09-02 09:50:53
19.   BklynBmr
14 Thanks, that makes sense. I just looked up the 2004 draft, where the Astros had the 23rd pick, which in turn went to the Yanks for losing Andy (listed as a 'first round compensation pick), and also the 37th overall pick (listed as 'supplemental first round), again for Andy. Yanks picked 28th that year, as well. I admit I never paid much attention to the mechanics of that, but losing a top level free agent is certainly not the end of the world ;-)
2007-09-02 09:59:12
20.   yankz
I remember David Ortiz a couple years ago saying Moose was the toughest pitcher in the league because he has a million different pitches. I really expected him to age well.
2007-09-02 10:10:40
21.   BklynBmr
Kenny just said it. Man, does The Stadium look beautiful today, or what?
2007-09-02 10:14:14
22.   mehmattski
Urg. I haven't seen Melky make a mistake like that since his ill-advised call up in 2005.
2007-09-02 10:14:16
23.   rbj
Ouch. Melky, Melky, Melky.
2007-09-02 10:14:26
24.   BklynBmr
What's up with Melky's positioning in center lately?
2007-09-02 10:14:38
25.   williamnyy23
Does Melky dislike Andy?
2007-09-02 10:14:48
26.   yankz
Ah, Melky.
2007-09-02 10:15:20
27.   yankz
Did they rule it an error?
2007-09-02 10:15:47
28.   BklynBmr
27 Triple...
2007-09-02 10:15:51
29.   rbj
27 Triple. It really should be an error.
2007-09-02 10:16:13
30.   williamnyy23
27 3B...incredibly.
2007-09-02 10:16:27
31.   yankz
Nope, it was a triple.
2007-09-02 10:16:40
32.   yankz
Yeah, thanks guys.
2007-09-02 10:17:20
33.   williamnyy23
22 He misplayed another ball poorly with Andy on the mound this season. I believe it was against Pittsburgh and turned into an inside the park homerun.
2007-09-02 10:17:38
34.   BklynBmr
Melkman seems to be doing a lot of hauling azz to the wall lately...
2007-09-02 10:18:27
35.   yankz
34 Rat Race reference?
2007-09-02 10:19:41
36.   BklynBmr
35 No, but good one ;-)
2007-09-02 10:22:15
37.   yankz
HAHAHA Michigan
2007-09-02 10:26:54
38.   yankz
OK, I'm confident this won't be another Sonnanstine-level disaster.
2007-09-02 10:27:32
39.   randym77
Where's Bama? He'd appreciate hearing that his man Andy Phillips has been ragging on Derek Jeter for the Michigan loss.
2007-09-02 10:32:27
40.   rbj
2007-09-02 10:35:09
41.   BklynBmr
38 . Memo to Yanks: Jason. Hammel. 1-4. 7.44.
2007-09-02 10:37:51
42.   BklynBmr
Great AB, 'Zilla! Let's get it going, Yanks...
2007-09-02 10:38:03
43.   yankz
41 Winless in 17 starts.
2007-09-02 10:40:24
44.   BklynBmr
43 If this guy shuts us down today, I'm bailing on the season and will root for the Mutts...
2007-09-02 10:43:32
45.   williamnyy23
That's as bad as gets...1 and 2 against a pitcher like Hammel and you essentially hit into two double plays. Disgusting.
2007-09-02 10:43:51
46.   OldYanksFan
Shit! Did anyone see how SLOW Cano was getting out of the box? He should be fined. He figures it a DP so he dogs it... and then remembers he's supported to run hard... after a full second or more.

Thatt stuff should not be ignored.
The entire season can come down to one play.

2007-09-02 10:44:24
47.   seamus
those ground balls were hit too hard. That is always frustrating.
2007-09-02 10:46:55
48.   monkeypants
46 He dogged it so much that it was a really close play? Is that even plausible to you?
2007-09-02 10:48:49
49.   williamnyy23
HR for gets worse. Normally, you wouldn't worry about this game, but after Friday's debacle and last inning's wasted opportunity, one wonders. This is the type of game that should be over by now.
2007-09-02 10:49:48
50.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
Up is down, black is white, Buchholz is Hughes, Jason Hammels is Cy Young, Dioner Navarro is Babe Ruth. Wtf?
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-09-02 10:49:54
51.   randym77
Damon thought he was going to get that one. He did that glove-tapping thing and everything.

Yeah, trading Navarro for Randy Johnson was a great idea.

2007-09-02 10:50:39
52.   williamnyy23
48 It's plausible because it shouldn't have been close. In fact, it really wasn't close. If Hammels hits the bag, it's an easy double play.
2007-09-02 10:51:53
53.   monkeypants
44 Yep, pack it in. Even though they have a better record than the Mets, and hold a two game lead in the WC. Man, the emotions displayed here sometimes--it's like teenage girls.
2007-09-02 10:51:54
54.   SF Yanks
HaHaa... I could see Melky just dieing to slide head first on that play.
2007-09-02 10:52:35
55.   OldYanksFan
48 Did you see it on TV? They showed him coming out of the box... real, real slow... and then ALL OF A SUDDEN he realized he was supported to run, and started running hard.
Did you see it on TV?
2007-09-02 10:53:21
56.   SF Yanks
53 Dude, he's joking.
2007-09-02 10:55:10
57.   monkeypants
55 I saw it. What 'does supported to run' mean?

56 Sorry, my sarcasm receptors are off. These games bring out such shrill comments and I lose track of the serious posts.

2007-09-02 10:56:17
58.   OldYanksFan
Cleveland and Seattle both down by 3.
Is Seattle simply going to fold?
2007-09-02 10:56:31
59.   williamnyy23
57 Shrill comments? You mean like 44 ? :)
2007-09-02 10:57:33
60.   williamnyy23
Yikes Johnny...what a lousy way to end a good AB. 5 Ks for Hammels is that possible?
2007-09-02 10:57:35
61.   monkeypants
55 I saw it. What 'does supported to run' mean?

56 Sorry, my sarcasm receptors are off. These games bring out such shrill comments and I lose track of the serious posts.

2007-09-02 10:59:00
62.   SF Yanks
59 Yes, that's what he was referring to. I really don't think he's going to give up on the season and root for the Mets. C'mon now, lol.
2007-09-02 10:59:08
63.   monkeypants
61 Whoah, how did that happen? OK, keep me away from the keyboard.
2007-09-02 10:59:11
64.   williamnyy23
The Yankees better wake up ASAP.
2007-09-02 10:59:59
65.   yankz
2007-09-02 11:00:21
66.   BklynBmr
56 Thanks, SF ;-)

57 You're right, though. Sometimes there are too many thoughts here like that which are serious, so I shouldn't jest. No worries...

2007-09-02 11:00:33
67.   williamnyy23
62 I meant:

57 Shrill comments? You mean like 53 ? :)

2007-09-02 11:01:39
68.   williamnyy23
Can they call a team meeting right now?
2007-09-02 11:02:56
69.   SF Yanks
I swear this team is the most opposite team I've ever seen. You think the matchup favors them healivly but they'll lose. You think they're gonna get destroyed and they win. I'm not calling the end to the game by any means, so don't take this as a shrill comment, but it's come to my attention that it's never a sure thing. Ever.
2007-09-02 11:05:30
70.   yankz
Arod leads off, Arod leads off, Arod leads off...
2007-09-02 11:05:45
71.   SF Yanks
67 Gotcha. ;)
2007-09-02 11:06:56
72.   Jersey
Is that Hammel or Hamels who's pitching today?? Sheesh.
2007-09-02 11:07:29
73.   SF Yanks
65 Why would you do that? How can you become a Sox fan when the season isn't even over? That's way over board... kind of like how I'm going right now.
2007-09-02 11:07:30
74.   yankz
BJ Upton terrifies me
2007-09-02 11:09:13
75.   BklynBmr
69 I'm just thankful Andy is on the mound in a game like this. If Hammel goes Sandy Koufax on us, too, I'd feel better about having a shot in the late innings...
2007-09-02 11:09:23
76.   williamnyy23
I hate games like this because you start with the expectation that the team will win, meaning you can only be disappointed. Then, you squander a golden opportunity in the 2nd and give up a HR to a non-hitter, which leads to a lot of negative thoughts. Then, as each inning passes and you continue to trail, the tension mounts. I wonder if the players feel that way too?
2007-09-02 11:10:04
77.   SF Yanks
73 I know Delmon is supposed to be a good but I can't see him being that good.

BTW, I love Andy (Pettitte that is)

2007-09-02 11:10:52
78.   JimCobain
76 No. Because the players have control.
2007-09-02 11:11:53
79.   SF Yanks
76 I can sorta second that.
2007-09-02 11:11:57
80.   yankz
How many K's does Hammel have? 6 in 3 IP, right? Embarassing.
2007-09-02 11:13:03
81.   williamnyy23
78 To a degree...each hitter has control every 4 ABs, but they have to watch the other 8 players just like we do. Also, the fielders are very much dependent on the pitcher. For example, I'm sure they are much more confident when Mo comes into the game, versus Farnsey.
2007-09-02 11:13:39
82.   yankz
FWIW, Navarro's OPSing .787 since August 1. Not great or anything, but he's been improving as of late.
2007-09-02 11:14:22
83.   SF Yanks
77 lol, I don't know why I referred to my post there in 73 but whatever...

Oh BTW, I love Andy.

2007-09-02 11:16:52
84.   BklynBmr
Mats goes deep here...
2007-09-02 11:18:27
85.   williamnyy23
Hammels is now throwing very well...
2007-09-02 11:18:41
86.   BklynBmr
84 into the count I meant...
2007-09-02 11:21:39
87.   Dark Knight
hammel has a 43/31 SO/BB walk ratio this year. of course, today, 6/0 yanks. it's like i'm watching my michigan wolverines again. my head hurts so much.
2007-09-02 11:21:51
88.   yankz
Well, I have to go, not that I'm missing anything.
2007-09-02 11:21:56
89.   williamnyy23
Hammels has 67 pitches...I can't believe that's even relevant.
2007-09-02 11:22:09
90.   BklynBmr
Keep it close, Andy. Just keep it close...
2007-09-02 11:23:17
91.   SF Yanks
They will win this game... right?
2007-09-02 11:24:05
92.   BklynBmr
89 That's a better repertoire than Moose.
2007-09-02 11:26:41
93.   williamnyy23
Crap...that run at 2B now takes on a lot of significance. I wonder if Andy is as angry as I am.
2007-09-02 11:26:59
94.   OldYanksFan
57 SUPPOSED to run
2007-09-02 11:27:28
95.   BklynBmr
91 Yes, because right now, no one thinks they have a chance. These are the Yanks we know and love, always doing the opposite of what we think...
2007-09-02 11:29:31
96.   OldYanksFan
Has MLBTV shit the bed for anyone else?
2007-09-02 11:30:08
97.   BklynBmr
They will learn. You don't run on Johnny Damon!
2007-09-02 11:30:14
98.   SF Yanks
93 The reason I love Andy is because he gets mad when he gives up one hit. So, yes, he's probably just as mad as you are right now. Except at himself.

Johnny!!! I thought he didn't have a chance, but way to prove me wrong.

2007-09-02 11:30:21
99.   monkeypants
Damon with the cannon!
2007-09-02 11:30:40
100.   williamnyy23
Ok now...if you needed a good omen...that was the ultimate one. So, either the Yankees will win this game or the world is going to end today.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-09-02 11:30:42
101.   rbj
Um, did the Yankees forget to bring their offense to the stadium today?
2007-09-02 11:30:51
102.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
Sorry, listening in mlbradio, but did I hear right, did Noodle-arm Damon just throw someone out at the plate?
2007-09-02 11:31:14
103.   williamnyy23
96 It's back now...I'm also keeping an eye on Seattle.
2007-09-02 11:32:02
104.   randym77
I have a feeling they wouldn't have run on Melky or Abreu. Or even Matsui.

But yay, Johnny, anyway.

2007-09-02 11:32:19
105.   williamnyy23
Let's be patient here now.
2007-09-02 11:32:54
106.   BklynBmr
100 Just what I was thinking. If that's not a portender of good things to come, I don't know what would be...
2007-09-02 11:33:07
107.   williamnyy23
105 Or not...I guess trying to build a rally would be a waste of time anyway.
2007-09-02 11:33:28
108.   SF Yanks
Hopefully Seattle can start winning and the Angels will start losing so we can face the M's in the playoffs.
2007-09-02 11:34:25
109.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
106 More like a portent of the endtimes. Is this sky purple and the sun red? Hail the size of volleyballs? Plague of frogs?
2007-09-02 11:34:27
110.   williamnyy23
108 I'll worry about playoff opponents when pitchers like Sonnenstine and Hammels aren't completely shutting this team down.
2007-09-02 11:34:34
111.   SF Yanks
2007-09-02 11:34:59
112.   BklynBmr
OK. That's one high and tight to Jeter, now this. He should be suspended on the spot.
2007-09-02 11:36:18
113.   SF Yanks
Melky's gonna get a hit. I can feel it.
2007-09-02 11:37:01
114.   rbj
113 Good call.
2007-09-02 11:37:07
115.   williamnyy23
Very nice...Andy running with a purpose.
2007-09-02 11:37:22
116.   SF Yanks
113 See.

How was Any safe?

2007-09-02 11:37:24
117.   BklynBmr
YEAH!!! Good hustle, Andy! Nice balls, Bowa!
2007-09-02 11:37:35
118.   Dark Knight
i'm renaming my son melky.
2007-09-02 11:38:20
119.   OldYanksFan
Man... that was a real abortion of a slide. Almost blew it.
2007-09-02 11:38:28
120.   williamnyy23
116 Navarro's tag was very slow and he was behind the plate.
2007-09-02 11:38:32
121.   SF Yanks
116 Andy.
2007-09-02 11:39:13
122.   fansince77
somebody tell sterling he was safe please.
2007-09-02 11:39:29
123.   randym77
He looked out to me, but either way, it was close.
2007-09-02 11:39:37
124.   BklynBmr
109 As long as endtimes start with a Damon assist, and climax with a 27th ring for the Bombers, I'm OK with that ;-)
2007-09-02 11:39:57
125.   williamnyy23
Come on patient!!
2007-09-02 11:40:07
126.   SF Yanks
Yeah! Big Whammy. Big inning. Lets go boys.
2007-09-02 11:40:55
127.   OldYanksFan
If only Jetes could be clutch... like ARod
2007-09-02 11:42:10
128.   BklynBmr
Double steal, suicide squeeze, whatever. Let's have all hell break loose!
2007-09-02 11:42:55
129.   OldYanksFan
Seattle down by 3 after 5. Cleveland down by 4. Boston up by 1.
2007-09-02 11:42:59
130.   williamnyy23
Here comes the slider low and away now...don't chase it!
2007-09-02 11:43:04
131.   BklynBmr
When will Hammel get tossed and suspended for 2 games?
2007-09-02 11:44:32
132.   pistolpete
Pleas tell me we'll take the lead here fercrissakes...
2007-09-02 11:44:34
133.   williamnyy23
I'm ashamed to admit I had no confidence in Jeter that AB.
2007-09-02 11:44:50
134.   fansince77
Jeter - El SUCKO!
2007-09-02 11:45:09
135.   Dark Knight
at least hammel is up to 86 pitches. should last only 6.
2007-09-02 11:45:34
136.   williamnyy23
The world is definitely coming to an end...Raul Ibanez just threw someone out at the plate too.
2007-09-02 11:46:26
137.   Yankees Brasil
I'm glad Jeter took the day off.. he needed to rest..
2007-09-02 11:46:43
138.   Dark Knight
abreu walks, a-rod grand salami. wait, i was dreaming.
2007-09-02 11:46:52
139.   pistolpete
That's it, guys. Let him off the hook AGAIN.
2007-09-02 11:47:04
140.   williamnyy23
Do they want to win this game? It's a good thing Bowa gambled on the send.
2007-09-02 11:47:32
141.   SF Yanks
2007-09-02 11:49:07
142.   williamnyy23
There have been a lot of frustrating games this season, but this one is actually making me very angry.
2007-09-02 11:49:16
143.   Jersey
Ugh. Another one of "those" games.
2007-09-02 11:50:00
144.   williamnyy23
143 Why does this team have so many?
2007-09-02 11:51:23
145.   bartap74
Does Betemit coming in here mean Giambi is now the 3rd 1st baseman on the depth chart? You'd think that with the team being handcuffed by a less than mediocre right hander, you might want one of your best left handed hitters in the lineup. Just saying.
2007-09-02 11:53:25
146.   randym77
Where's Minky when you need him?
2007-09-02 11:53:31
147.   williamnyy23
Come on now! It's one thing to get beat, but the effort in this game has been unacceptable.
2007-09-02 11:55:39
148.   BklynBmr
Baltimore got a hit, so we got that goin' for us...
2007-09-02 11:57:24
149.   williamnyy23
I'd love to get on Andy for walking the first two batters here, but the offense has been so inept, that he must be pitching with an immense pressure.
2007-09-02 11:57:43
150.   randym77
Oh, no. It's Upton.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-09-02 12:00:15
151.   williamnyy23
If the Yankees would have just given Andy a 2-run lead, he would have thrown a shutout. Instead, he has had to pitch with the game on the line every batter.
2007-09-02 12:02:53
152.   williamnyy23
This is what happens when you refuse to put a bad team away. The bases are now loaded and the Yankees are one pitch away from getting blown out again. Losing one game against TB is part of the game, but to have two efforts like this in one weekend is unacceptable and speaks to a fundamental flaw in this team.
2007-09-02 12:03:27
153.   Yankees Brasil
Good play by A-Rod, saved a double..
2007-09-02 12:03:43
154.   Jersey
144 Your guess is as good as mine. One of the reasons it's so frustrating, is the fact that it's so inexplicable.
2007-09-02 12:03:56
155.   OldYanksFan
Seattle rallying....
2007-09-02 12:04:16
156.   mehmattski
152 And that flaw would be? With every hypothesis, evidence and logic are required.
2007-09-02 12:05:08
157.   williamnyy23
156 I don't know...if I did, it wouldn't be so frustrating. But, in the years when this team was great, they had very few games like this or lose.
2007-09-02 12:05:40
158.   OldYanksFan
"... but to have two efforts like this in one weekend is unacceptable and speaks to a fundamental flaw in this team."

You just so silly.

2007-09-02 12:06:02
159.   Jersey
Gutsy strike out right there.
2007-09-02 12:07:26
160.   randym77
A lot of the Tampa guys have gloves in their back pockets even while they're batting. For their other set of hands?
2007-09-02 12:07:35
161.   BklynBmr
Big. Game. Andy. Now we tie it up...
2007-09-02 12:08:01
162.   williamnyy23
158 Yep...silly...this is a flawless team.
2007-09-02 12:08:58
163.   williamnyy23
Andy has carried the team would be nice if the offense would match his effort.
2007-09-02 12:09:30
164.   BklynBmr
Baltimore has a baserunner. Things are looking up all over...
2007-09-02 12:11:56
165.   OldYanksFan
162 That's what you expect? a flawless team?
2007-09-02 12:12:42
166.   mehmattski
157 I just think it's odd to suggest there is a fundamental flaw with an offense that has hit .306/.376/.509 since the All-Star break, scoring 335 runs in 50 games (for an astounding 6.7 runs per game). Those numbers for August are .296/.363/.485 and 6.2 runs/game.

I'm not saying that games like this aren't frustrating. But there's nothing that says that the Yankees won't score 5 runs this inning, either. Runs in the first inning count just as much as runs in the sixth, after all. And a team that scores 6 runs per game is going to win games, period.

2007-09-02 12:12:46
167.   OldYanksFan
bases loaded, no outs for the boids....
Mora up.
2007-09-02 12:13:11
168.   williamnyy23
Thank you took 6 innings, but finally a Yankee batter exhibits a little patience.
2007-09-02 12:13:24
169.   OldYanksFan
Seattle down by 2 after 7.
2007-09-02 12:14:42
170.   OldYanksFan
Soft line out for Mora. Bases juiced, 1 out. Ramon up.
2007-09-02 12:15:08
171.   Yankees Brasil
Cy Hammel is out, let's get some runs now.
2007-09-02 12:15:15
172.   williamnyy23
166 If the Yankees offense wasn't as good as your data suggests, I wouldn't consider the inability to hit picthers like Sonnestine and Hammel a flaw. There is no way that both pitchers should shut this team down...there has to be a reason (anxiousness; lack of focus against a bad pitcher/etc.).
2007-09-02 12:15:19
173.   Jersey
Bullpen! Let it raaaiiinn!!!
2007-09-02 12:16:04
174.   OldYanksFan
Fly out throw 'em out at the plate DP. Sox up 1-0 after 4
2007-09-02 12:23:52
175.   mehmattski
172 There are plenty of examples of the 1996-2000 teams losing a series to a subpar team. The difference is one of perception- not since 1995 (with the possible exception of 2005) have games in September meant much of anything to the Yankees. Therefore each individual game is magnified and mistakes are taken out of the context of a full season and seen as flaws. What the Yankees have is a 90+ win team that will at the very least come very close to a playoff berth.

One can only realistically talk about flaws with personnel and in-game tactics, in terms of suggesting improvements. Intangibles like approach and attitude and clutchitude disrespect the hard working athletes who are on the field every day.

2007-09-02 12:25:55
176.   JimCobain
shouldn't you pinch hit with Giambi here?
2007-09-02 12:26:28
177.   Jersey
Why wouldn't you bat Giambi here?
2007-09-02 12:26:43
178.   mikeplugh
where's giambi?
2007-09-02 12:26:48
179.   Jersey
Why wouldn't you bat Giambi here?
2007-09-02 12:27:21
180.   randym77
175 I'd say 2005 was definitely an exception. That September was crazy. Like a month-long playoff. And they played very well indeed.
2007-09-02 12:27:54
181.   Jersey
176 ,178 Great minds etc etc
2007-09-02 12:27:58
182.   JeremyM
Betemit? Are you freaking kidding me? What horrible managing. Oh my mistake, we need DEFENSE right now. Or something.
2007-09-02 12:28:58
183.   mikeplugh
Torre loss if we don't pull this one out. Great chance there......
2007-09-02 12:29:11
184.   williamnyy23
175 It's not a matter of losing's being shutdown by bad pitching. And by shutdown, I don't mean hitting the ball hard at people, but rather having very poor ABs. Maybe the flaw is in approach or game plan, but whatever it is, this team wouldn't be in the dire situation it is had it only played better in games against weaker opponents.
2007-09-02 12:29:31
185.   JimCobain
That made no sense. Betimit is 0 fer. Gimabi is a vet with patience. And if you are concerned about defense they do have options. Sure one of them is Stink. But what if you never get another chance all game?
2007-09-02 12:29:37
186.   Jersey
182 Of course we need defense. Forget hitting, we're going to field our way back, dammit!
2007-09-02 12:31:01
187.   mikeplugh
Really? Stick with Pettitte here?
2007-09-02 12:32:00
188.   JimCobain
187 another questionable move. Let Edwar start and not come in to clean up the mess if there is one!
2007-09-02 12:32:27
189.   williamnyy23
175 Maybe it's not about the players either. Perhaps Joe needs to have a better feel for when the offense isn't clicking and be more aggressive when necessary. For example, the team has had three lead off men reach base and hasn't tried one hit and run.
2007-09-02 12:33:14
190.   williamnyy23
189 Or, let Giambi hit in a situation when a HR would be huge.
2007-09-02 12:33:49
191.   mikeplugh
pettitte at 111 pitches and no control
2007-09-02 12:34:57
192.   BklynBmr
191 That cutter looked pretty good...
2007-09-02 12:35:41
193.   mikeplugh
yeah....hope he finishes this half inning at 2-1.
2007-09-02 12:35:50
194.   williamnyy23
192 It did, but the curve seems to have abandoned him, which is what makes Pettitte really dangerous against lefties.
2007-09-02 12:35:54
195.   SF Yanks
These are some interesting stats about how often pitchers throw inside.

Other pitchers and their throw inside percentages:

Matt Cain: 24%
Greg Maddux: 24%
Phil Hughes: 31%
Jonathan Papelbon: 31%
Carlos Zambrano: 32%

Want another guy who has a reputation for throwing inside more than what he actually does? I have always thought that this next pitcher didn't walk this walk. He just talked like he did:

Curt Schilling: 22%

This is coming from Gomez at the Hardball times. I would like to check out more stats on this. Is this possible on

2007-09-02 12:36:07
196.   mikeplugh
2007-09-02 12:36:22
197.   williamnyy23
194 All fastballs to Pena will mean a 5-1 game.
2007-09-02 12:36:27
198.   mehmattski
I'm betting that Torre wanted Pettitte to face Iwamura, Crawford, and Pena, given that Pettitte is by far the best lefty on the staff right now.
2007-09-02 12:37:16
199.   JeremyM
198 You're probably right, I'm not sure it's the right call but at least you can see the rationale behind it.
2007-09-02 12:38:01
200.   mikeplugh
f-ing torre
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-09-02 12:38:24
201.   bartap74
Just remember, the Yankees released Pena last season.
2007-09-02 12:38:27
202.   BklynBmr
194 Did you say something about the curve?
2007-09-02 12:38:32
203.   mehmattski
Pretty sure I could have hit that one out.
2007-09-02 12:38:41
204.   williamnyy23
A 3-run HR by Pena was a pretty likely outcome. I wish the Yankees had a manager who could anticipate likely outcomes.
2007-09-02 12:38:50
205.   randym77
Methinks they left Andy in a bit too long.
2007-09-02 12:38:55
206.   JeremyM
Seriously, we have Andy Phillips with his 2 dingers and we let Pena walk.

Hey, another contender for worst loss of the year!

2007-09-02 12:39:57
207.   Jersey
197 there you go

What a f-ing joke of a game this is. Christ.

2007-09-02 12:39:57
208.   mikeplugh
i wasn't always a joe hater, but i've learned to despise him this year.
2007-09-02 12:40:23
209.   BklynBmr
200 See 198 . How is that logic so terrible?
2007-09-02 12:40:32
210.   JeremyM
201 Technically, I think he had an option where he could sign with another team if he wanted after a certain date if he was still in the minors, which he did.

Ron Villone had the same deal. We kept Ron Villone, but Pena, no, we let him sign elsewhere.

2007-09-02 12:41:05
211.   williamnyy23
This is a pure give away game...on the one hand, the offense completely abandoned the idea of being patient, and on the other you have a manager who can't react to a game as it unfolds.

The Yankees didn't have to lose this game.

2007-09-02 12:42:07
212.   mikeplugh
209 yes. terrible. he was cooked and you had options in the pen. a fresh arm in that situation was preferable to a cooked lefty
2007-09-02 12:42:11
213.   BklynBmr
206 I don't think anyone in their right mind saw this out of Peña. Boston let him go, too. Rays took him out of desperation.
2007-09-02 12:43:48
214.   mikeplugh
guess edwar should've started this inning
2007-09-02 12:44:00
215.   BklynBmr
212 Then why not take him out with the bags loaded in the 6th with one out? He was obvioulsy losing the plot. Why not a fresh arm there? Or did Joe just get lucky?
2007-09-02 12:44:19
216.   williamnyy23
209 The logic isn't bad at all, but you have to adapt. After expending all his energy in the 6th, it was obvious off the bat that Pettitte no longer had a curve. Without a curve, he isn't as tough on lefties. Instead of reading the situation, Joe devised his formula and went on autopilot. We've seen it time and time again, so I am not sure why anyone would be surprised. Overcoming bad managing has been an inherent part of what this team must do to win. I am more angry at an offense that completely abandoned its patient approach.
2007-09-02 12:44:52
217.   JeremyM
213 No, but he was a better bet to hit than Phillips and Doug M. I think. I'll be honest, I know all of the hardships Phillips has overcome and that's great, but I can't stand the idea of him playing first base with his 2 home runs.
2007-09-02 12:45:19
218.   randym77
213 But a lot of people, including many right here at the Banter, saw Pena as a better option than Andy Phillips.

Cashman was in love with Andy last year for some reason. Wouldn't even consider cutting him.

2007-09-02 12:46:49
219.   williamnyy23
215 If you watched Andy's pitches in the 6th, they were still sharp. Managing isn't connect the need to read in between the lines as well.
2007-09-02 12:48:19
220.   pistolpete
Blame this on the offense - if we had scored 3 or 4 by the 6th, Andy would have been yanked a lot faster.
2007-09-02 12:49:07
221.   BklynBmr
219 I dunno, two walks, no first pitch strikes, bad throw to first. You could make the case...
2007-09-02 12:49:43
222.   JeremyM
Well, there is still plenty of time to get 5 runs across the board, Damon needs to get something started right now.
2007-09-02 12:49:46
223.   williamnyy23
220 I agree, but it would sure be nice to have a manager capable of bailing out his team when they play like crap.
2007-09-02 12:51:04
224.   williamnyy23
221 Perhaps, but I am just going by what I saw and expressed before the fact. It's not a second guess when you say it before the fact.
2007-09-02 12:51:32
225.   randym77
Rick Ankiel with another homer. Is he for real? His average is something like .360 and his OPS is on the right side of 1.000. A former pitcher.
2007-09-02 12:51:54
226.   BklynBmr
218 I recall discussions about him being all glove - no stick, and the "sweet fielding" first baseman label as a negative. I watched him break in behind Giambi in Oakland, and he never lived up to anyone's expectations, then has a bust out year. Tigers gave up on him, too. Go figure.
2007-09-02 12:52:31
227.   SF Yanks
Like I said before. Just when you think it's a for sure win, it isn't. Not even close. I hate this opposite shit. Still, 8 outs left, 4 runs down. Definitely doable, but it needs to happen now.
2007-09-02 12:52:59
228.   thelarmis
at least seattle just lost. 6-4. that's what, 9 in a row...

c'mon Cap'n!!!

2007-09-02 12:53:46
229.   BklynBmr
224 Don't get me wrong. You did call it. But you're always pre-emptive on what could go wrong. This time you nailed it, unfortunately.
2007-09-02 12:54:22
230.   SF Yanks
Just two runs this inning. 1 in the 8th and 1 in the 9th and we're in business.
2007-09-02 12:54:25
231.   williamnyy23
228 I hope they don't turn around it this week, especially after the Yankees salted away two "wins" off their scehdule.
2007-09-02 12:55:33
232.   williamnyy23
Don't understand why Jeter has been so impatient today...he just swung at 2 balls.
2007-09-02 12:55:50
233.   SF Yanks
When's Jeter's last double?
2007-09-02 12:57:02
234.   JeremyM
Jeter really has not had a good second half, and a terrible game today. Hopefully he came come through now.
2007-09-02 12:57:06
235.   randym77
226 'I recall discussions about him being all glove - no stick, and the "sweet fielding" first baseman label as a negative.'

Still worth a look when the other options are Andy or Minky.

I remember some heated discussions here when Torre said he wasn't even checking to see how Pena was doing down in Columbus. Basically saying he didn't have a chance, no matter how well he was hitting.

And I remember Pete Abe saying that Cashman really liked Andy Phillips, for reasons no one could determine. I thought maybe they had a trade lined up for the off-season, but no, they just DFA'd him at the end of spring training.

2007-09-02 12:58:20
236.   williamnyy23
If you had to nominate one goat for this game, it's Jeter. Not only for the results, but the approach as well. He's earned the right.
2007-09-02 13:01:18
237.   thelarmis
does boBBy realize he's facing a pitcher named Bal Four? (hat tip to Emma!)
2007-09-02 13:01:34
238.   SF Yanks
There's one. It's a start.
2007-09-02 13:01:36
239.   williamnyy23
That's a great AB by Abreu...if only...ah, forget it.
2007-09-02 13:02:25
240.   JeremyM
Great at-bat by Abreu, obviously, come on A-Rod!
2007-09-02 13:02:51
241.   thelarmis
i'll take it! bring him home, alex!!!
2007-09-02 13:02:58
242.   williamnyy23
Patience...let them let us back in the game.
2007-09-02 13:04:23
243.   BklynBmr
235 Granted, but we're not even having this discussion without the HRs. Peña was just another possible "glove" beind a $17M starter, and nothing in his career to that point even teased otherwise. Another Travis Lee, Tony Clark, CP 3 Olerud, etc.

A lot folks around here thought Andy just needed to play everyday at this level and we would produce, too.

2007-09-02 13:05:11
244.   randym77
Nice to know that balls do occasionally drop in when Upton's within the zip code.
2007-09-02 13:07:43
245.   bobtaco
Anyone seen Chris Britton lately?
2007-09-02 13:09:15
246.   pistolpete

Hello Wild Card.

2007-09-02 13:09:28
247.   SF Yanks
OMG I feel like puking. What the hell was that at 87mph?
2007-09-02 13:10:41
248.   SF Yanks
Good day all. I'm out.
2007-09-02 13:10:46
249.   pistolpete
Edwar is officially crap.
2007-09-02 13:11:08
250.   bobtaco
Time to call more fastballs for Edwar.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2007-09-02 13:11:58
251.   BklynBmr
Oh, those fresh arms. I could have gotten the grill started an hour ago but fucking Joe had to stick with Pettitte...
2007-09-02 13:13:05
252.   williamnyy23
OK...this inning now has been much less optimistic about Edwar. He needs to come up with another plan because the stuff is there.

I can't believe that this team lost two games to Tampa, but I'm shocked (and appalled) that they were blown out and shutdown both times. It probably shouldn't be a surprise with this group, but I guess I am still spoiled by the expectations of years past.

2007-09-02 13:13:57
253.   BklynBmr
At least Joba will available to help put the final nails in Seattle's season...
2007-09-02 13:14:14
254.   williamnyy23
246 Hopefully.
2007-09-02 13:15:10
255.   mikeplugh
Seattle lost, so we have a chance to still nail down a solid lead in the WC if we can pound them in the next series. TB is a lost chance and the AL East is all but slipping away. Win the next three and hold off Detroit.
2007-09-02 13:15:30
256.   randym77
243 I think the difference is Andy's glove isn't that good.

Besides, Andy did get a chance, and I think it's a good thing he got a chance. We should have given Pena a chance, too, once it was clear that Andy wasn't the answer. And by the time Pena invoked his option, it was clear that Andy wasn't the answer.

2007-09-02 13:16:18
257.   williamnyy23
255 But with a win, Detroit pulls to within two games and they have by far the easiest schedule of the three. Losing these two games to TB can't be minimized.
2007-09-02 13:17:16
258.   williamnyy23
Down 6, 1-0 count, Matsui swings. That's the approach they've taken all game, so when I complain about the effort, this is what I mean.
2007-09-02 13:18:19
259.   williamnyy23
255 2-0 Tigers in the first...
2007-09-02 13:22:30
260.   BklynBmr
257 Sheff must be smelling something. Instead of shutting it down and resting on decent numbers, he's coming off the DL on 9/5.
2007-09-02 13:23:35
261.   williamnyy23
Now, Torre goes to's almost like he's thumbing his nose at common sense.
2007-09-02 13:24:16
262.   BklynBmr
Jason for the 6-run homer! I agree Joe blew it by not PH'ing for Betemit.
2007-09-02 13:35:53
263.   randym77
Robby flashes the leather.
2007-09-02 13:38:17
264.   JeremyM
Gamecenter says Chamberlain and Farnsworth are warming. Why?
2007-09-02 13:40:00
265.   williamnyy23
264 Not sure if it's true, but my guess would be Joe doesn't feel he's done enough damage today.
2007-09-02 13:41:10
266.   BklynBmr
265 I was waiting for that ;-)
2007-09-02 13:43:45
267.   yankz
Whoa, I'm glad I missed this disaster.
2007-09-02 13:43:57
268.   williamnyy23
266 I guess I can go over board criticizing Torre, but I can't tell you how much I resent that he is manager. At the very least, I can use the fact that he'll likely be canned if they don't make the playoffs to cheer me up.
2007-09-02 13:47:56
269.   williamnyy23
Down by 6, 9th inning, Jeter swing at a ball over his head...this is one of the worst games I've ever seen him play.
2007-09-02 13:49:00
270.   yankz
I know I'm being a bad fan, but if we get the WC, for the first time that I can remember I won't expect the Yanks to win it all. Wang is just OK on the road, Rocket is very hit-or-miss, and the 4th starter is currently Phil Hughes.
2007-09-02 13:50:42
271.   williamnyy23
270 It's not being a bad's being realistic. After this weekend, I can't imagine anyone not being seriously concerned about this team.
2007-09-02 13:51:34
272.   bartap74
Interestingly enough, Singleton and Murcer spent a ton of time discussing Pena, even talking about how several teams gave up on him, but neither mentioned that he was in the Yankees' system last year. I wonder if they didn't know or if they were told not to mention it.
2007-09-02 13:52:43
273.   yankz
Wang's home ERA: 2.97
Road: 4.93

Too bad that if they're the WC team, they play most of their games on the road.

2007-09-02 13:53:23
274.   JeremyM
271 I've felt like that for awhile--we have three somewhat reliable starters, two guys you can legitimately trust in the pen, and an offense prone to fall asleep. But all that said, I just want them to get their ticket punched and maybe they can catch lightning in a bottle and win it all. Strange things happen in the playoffs. I'm still stunned by Jeff Weaver and Kenny Rogers last season (although I honestly think Rogers was using something because his fastball suddenly became a lethal weapon.)
2007-09-02 13:56:19
275.   williamnyy23
273 At least they wont have to face Andy Sonnestine, Jason Hammels, Dan Wheeler and Gary Glover IF they make the playoffs.

I'd like to think the team is embarrased by their performance today, but I am sure it wont stop them from enjoying their Sunday night on the town.

2007-09-02 13:56:58
276.   randym77
Good grief. This game was almost 4 hours long.
2007-09-02 13:58:26
277.   bartap74
Hammel's 1st career win as a starting pitcher, in 17 tries.


2007-09-02 14:01:25
278.   Sarasota
Humiliation in the Bronx at the hands of the Devil Rays. Very disappointing performance. A lot of guys looked terrible atthe plate. Ehat gives???!!???!!!?
2007-09-02 14:01:27
279.   randym77
277 That is pretty depressing.

I know, that's baseball, anything can happen.

But it always seems to happen to us. :-P

Any word on how Andy's hand is?

2007-09-02 14:46:54
280.   JL25and3
278 Ehat sounds like an internet haberdashery.
2007-09-02 14:51:40
281.   Mattpat11
I realize this may be considered blasphemy around these parts, but I have to say it.

Edwar Ramirez has no business on a team that is in the middle of a pennant race. He's just not good enough. He allows way too many baserunners. He gives up way too many homeruns. He's just not very good. He's not to the point where he's a massive liability, but his fairly regular usage pattern suggests that he can be one if we keep trotting him out there to push games out of reach

2007-09-02 14:57:37
282.   BklynBmr
281 Is it my imagination or has Edwar only held leads or ties — or — put a game realistically out of reach if we're down a run or two or three, and with runners on? He seems either lights out or fuel on...
2007-09-02 15:08:46
283.   Start Spreading the News
282 I think he is the Steve Balboni of pitching: either a strikeout or a home run.

When the hitter guesses changeup and gets it, then it is usually gone. This bodes poorly for Edwar's future as a big leaguer.

2007-09-02 15:10:29
284.   BklynBmr
268 I love and share your passion for the Yankees, my brother. I do bust balls when you seem to cash out too early in a game, but I greatly respect your take. You know the team and you know the game. I can't tell you how many times I've thought "%#$@! He's probably right!", hoping against logic the outcome will be different. A fair percentage of the time it is, which keeps us all watching, but just some props in appreciation of your posts ;-)
2007-09-02 15:17:20
285.   BklynBmr
283 Thank you, I'm not competely insane. Was it against the Halos' G. Anderson that he threw nothing but changes in the AB, and Anderson took him out on the fourth or fifth one? If I recall, it was a pretty decent location (low and outside), but Anderson was sitting on it (duh!) and took it to deep right...
2007-09-02 15:46:58
286.   BklynBmr
Well, I'm not to let today's overall frustrating effort ruin the entire weekend. Mine got off to a great start with a Yanks' win yesterday, followed by some "family values" 'till late in the evening:

... and while today's game was f*cked, I have the grill going, the hooch flowin', family and friends about, under a cloudless, windless, fogless San Francisco sky with temps that Al Gore would say "Told ya so, muthaf*kaaas!..."

Tomorrow we start the wild card eli*M*ination process...

Campai! Sláinte! Salud!

2007-09-02 16:34:46
287.   OldYanksFan
The A's come back for a 7 run deficit to beat Detroit. On the WC side, things stay the same.
2007-09-02 16:53:29
288.   JeremyM
287 Just saw that, what a break! They shit the bed for 2 games and it would've been nice to put some distance between the other teams, but at least no ground was lost.

Hannahan was given to Oakland for nothing a month or so ago, I bet they regret that now.

2007-09-02 19:33:13
289.   Mattpat11
The most discouraging thing about today is the potential for Mink the Stink playing time.
2007-09-02 20:07:23
290.   thelarmis
286 i LOVE the "slainthe" reference! i use that at the bar all the time. : )

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