Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
You'll Never Guess How I Feel About the Angels
2007-08-21 00:06
by Emma Span
Note: The Bronx Banter blog has moved to

It’s funny: as much as I hate the Angels, I’ve never found much to dislike about their individual players. If we're being honest, they're a pretty inoffensive group*; I mean, John Lackey tends to breathe through his mouth all the time, which is a pet peeve of mine, and Chone Figgins has been slightly overrated, sure... but I think that’s about it, really. I just loathe them as an entity, the entire organization, the whole idea of them. Individual Red Sox have irked me far more – Schilling, Pedro back in the day, Carl “The Bible Never Says Anything About Dinosaurs” Everett, etc – but ultimately I respect the Sox, and clearly baseball is richer for their existence...whereas I firmly believe the Angels should be legally abolished.

Now more than ever, of course, as I stayed up late with a summer cold to watch all three hours and 45 minutes of an indescribably frustrating Yankee loss: Angels 7, Yankees 6. The highs were high but the lows were low, and the lows ganged up on the highs and beat them to a bloody pulp. New York hitters wasted several opportunities, but seems to me it was the Yankee pitching that was most at fault, and particularly the bullpen.

Phil Hughes, coming home for the first time as a Yankee, was slightly better than his box score indicates (because Luis Vizcaino was significantly worse than his), but he certainly struggled off and on tonight, especially with his control: 5 walks and 4 hits in 6.1 innings of work. He was not helped by Robinson Cano, who made what proved to be a harmless error on a routine-ish grounder in the first, followed by a costly -- if unofficial -- mistake when he let a ball hit hard to his right slip under his glove in the second. Larry Bowa looked... displeased. Three runs would score in the inning, but to be fair, Hughes was hardly blameless: after Cano’s flub, he walked two in a row and gave up a bases-clearing double, to Jeff Mathis of all people, on the hang-iest of hanging curves.

It was 3-0 Angels, but the Yankees raged against the dying of the light: Hughes settled down and pitched well for the next four innings, and the offense began to stir, especially after the removal of Angels starter Dustin Moseley. In the fourth, Hideki Matsui tripled and scored on a Jorge Posada groundout; in the sixth, Alex Rodriguez went deep for the 40th time this season, scoring Bobby Abreu and breaking an extremely brief tie with Prince Fielder for ML home run leader. 4-3 Yankees. As a bonus, Rodriguez did this off a pitcher with the top-notch name of Bootcheck.

Things went south in the bottom of the seventh, however. Hughes started the inning and promptly allowed a hit and a walk, so Joe Torre went to the bullpen… but unfortunately, though he tried to call for July Luis Vizcaino, he accidentally summoned May Luis Vizcaino, who promptly allowed both inherited runners to score, plus one to grow on. 6-4 Angels.

But! In the 8th, after A-Rod singled, Jorge Posada knocked a Justin Speier pitch over the right field fence to tie the game. (Had they skipped this part, the game would have ended 45 minutes earlier, thousands of New Yorkers would have been spared a dangerous rise in blood pressure, Mariano would have been fresh for tomorrow, I would have gotten some sleep, and Sean Henn wouldn’t have ended his night on the verge of tears*. But nice hitting, anyway).

Kyle Farnsworth came on in the bottom of the inning, and I don’t see why two solid recent outings should cancel out the dozens and dozens of mediocre to horrendous outings that preceded them. He promptly reverted to his most infuriating pitching style, falling behind Gary Matthews and Casey Kotchman and allowing a double and a walk, respectively. Maicer Izturis then smashed a line drive right to Wilson Betemit, who made a better play than he had any right to and was able to throw out Matthews at home plate. Spiritually, that ball was a run-scoring double. Reggie Willets (of “his family literally lives in a batting cage” fame) then struck out on a veeeeery questionable check swing call. Honestly, I’ve rarely seen a worse-pitched scoreless inning; yes, Farns got out of it without allowing a run, but it certainly wasn’t for lack of trying.

Torre then did something many statistically inclined fans have been wishing he’d try for a long time: he brought in Mariano Rivera in the ninth inning of a tie road game. It doesn’t get much higher-leverage than that, and Mo came through, pitching around some lucky hits. Unfortunately, he only went the one inning; and in the 10th, Torre brought in Sean Henn... who allowed a double to Kendrick, followed by a walk-off game winner to someone named Ryan Budde. Poor Henn looked to be taking it hard after the game, and I want to be clear that you really can’t pin this loss on just him, but I do just need to point out here that this was the SECOND-EVER HIT OF BUDDE’S CAREER.

I’m going to bed.


*I'm not as down on Torre as many of you, but I will say that when a third of your bullpen has left games openly weeping**, that's probably a sign there's room for improvement in that area, no?


**Or set their equipment on fire in front of the dugout.


Comments (61)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-08-21 05:46:44
1.   seamus
well, i dvred the end of that and just watched it. I really don't get how we can use Farnsworth in that 8th. We were lucky to escape. And with Henn coming out in the 10th I felt the game was over. I felt no way can we tempt fate twice.

We should have won that game, but our failure to plate more run opportunities was bound to hurt us. So, onward and upward.

2007-08-21 05:46:45
2.   Alex Belth
Tonight before the first pitch, the Yanks are going to pull their pants down, call the Angels their "Daddy," and then beg for the Halos not to stick it in too far.

Moose was horrible last week. Unless he's got his stuff really working, or an umpire with a liberal strike zone, he'll get torched again. The Angels are free-swingers, so that could help. However, if they get on base, they are sure to make like everybody else this year and run wild on Mussina.

Kelvim Escobar? Anyone seen his ERA lately? Jeez. The Horror vs. the Angels just won't stop.

Well, enough crying from me. Yanks just need to suck it up and beat two excellent starting pitchers over the next two days and that's that.

2007-08-21 05:48:13
3.   Rob Middletown CT
Wow, I'm happy I missed that. Ugh.

Joba and Edwar were both unavailable after the last game against the Tigers. He used Mariano.

This leaves Vizcaino (he of the "tired arm"), Farnsworth, Henn and Mariano... all of whom pitched. Oh, right, Villone as well.

I don't see mismanaging of the bullpen here. Torre does it a lot, but I can't fault him here. The problem is that Sean Henn just isn't any good (and Cano didn't make a play, and various hitters didn't get the big hit, etc).

2007-08-21 05:50:17
4.   Rob Middletown CT
And yeah, I hate the Angels too. It may be a good thing I can't watch these games.
2007-08-21 06:07:22
5.   vockins
Want an Angel to hate? BBRod. I hate him. Hate him. Powerful hate.

His whole schtick - I hate it. Striking out the backup catcher of a sub .500 team for the first out of an inning of a game played in mid June is not an event that should prompt a celebration that most relievers would reserve for closing a League Championship game. Take your freaking Ritalin, you buzzy squirrel.

When Edwar Ramirez made his first appearence for the Yanks, I immediately freaked out because he had those profoundly stupid Oakley glasses that it seems the entire Angels bullpen wears. I rushed to the computer and my worst suspicions were confirmed: he used to play for the Angels. Edwar is great, but I can't help but going into involuntary spasms when I see those glasses.

That stadium should be demolished. The papier mache mountain - good lord. That stupid waterfall is barely visible. Why bother? I'm all for absurd (I actually like the idea of a Rally Monkey, because it makes no sense - "we are down by two in the bottom of the eighth, it's time to free the monkey" - but I hate the stuffed animal monkeys), but like Zappa said, if you're going to go out there, go all the way out there. That mountain is too half ass. Why not go full ass and have a zoo back there with some gorillas and elephants and giraffes? How I would love a sportcenter highlight when the Angels Field giraffe takes a Travis Hafner HR to the head and gets knocked out. Or the gorilla starts flinging its feces at Johnny Damon. This won't happen because the Angels went half ass.

Is that Adelphia ad still in left field? Who the hell is paying for that? I guess you and I are.

2007-08-21 06:09:02
6.   seamus
5 breathe...
2007-08-21 06:25:05
7.   Ben
[2.] Ouchie-wa-wa.
2007-08-21 06:54:22
8.   JeremyM
I literally hate "K-Rod" more than any player in baseball. I can't stand the guy. The histrionics are so over-the-top, yet the Yankees almost always get beat by him. The way he talks to himself, points at the sky, yells, etc. it's like watching that old wrestler the Ultimate Warrior. Abreu swinging at that ball in the dirt was a huge letdown.
2007-08-21 06:56:46
9.   Bob B
Everyone hates the Angels.
I went to bed up 4-3 but with a bad feeling since the Sox and Mariners had already won. Was not surprised to see the final score this morning. I guess I'm glad I missed it after hearing about the Farnsworth/Henn innings. Hughes was not that great either and it's too bad he had to draw the first (and what should have been the easiest) game of this series. Guess we just suck it up and hope for the best tonight and tomorrow.
2007-08-21 07:06:42
10.   Mattpat11
I actually like a lot of the Angels. I like their pitchers, I like Vlad, I really like Arte Moreno.

I just don't like our results against them.

2007-08-21 07:14:03
11.   Cliff Corcoran
To be honest, before that final frame, I thought this was a fantastic game. Hughes really bore down after that Mathis double. Torre's bullpen moves were completely defensible as Joba was unavailable and Edwar had pitched two innings the day before and he actually used Mo during regulation in a tie game on the road to counter K-Rod. They got two huge clutch homers from Rodriguez and Posada and that game-saving play from Betemit. I was thinking to myself, "the old Yankees would have lost this in regulation, they never would have gotten to extras."

If anything Cano's defense and the Yankee offense's inability to do more against Moseley were where they lost this game. I also think that Melky and Abreu's have yet to be comfortable on balls in the gap that they both get close to. Melky came a step short of Budde's game winner, and I think it was because he hesitated when he saw Abreu sliding in his peripheral vision. That's a bit of a stretch, but they've had a lot of issues all year and I think it might have decided the game last night.

2007-08-21 07:16:22
12.   rsmith51
The only question that I have is why Giambi was not starting. I think he should be playing more than he is. JD can just PH, PR, and start 1-2 times a week.
2007-08-21 07:17:23
13.   rsmith51
I feel exactly the same way about the Angels, Emma. I look at their numbers and wonder why the Yankees don't dominate them.
2007-08-21 07:24:14
14.   mayorkoch
Night of the Shaky Bullpen - It is amazing how the tenor of the game changes when the bullpen does its job (Chamberlain/Ramirez) versus when all four relief pitchers are shaky. With Vizcaino seemingly burnt out again we need to identify one more bullpen arm who we can really count on on the Joba "Mr Hyde" day. Who is it going to be??? Britton, Bruney, Beam, Veras, Ohlendorf, Igawa (just kidding)
2007-08-21 07:38:00
15.   Daniel Zappala
You need a little perspective here.

You need to go back and look at the history of the Angels franchise. Prior to 2002, they were a lot like the Royals, just without the World Series. A few good years, a few stars, like Nolan Ryan and Bobby Grich and Rod Carew, but lots of really really bad years. Take a look at 1986 to understand the heartbreak this franchise felt for so long -- their only shot at the World Series lost in gut-wrenching fashion. It was so bad their closer committed suicide.

They had the great fortune to hire Mike Scioscia,win the Series in 2002, and get purchased by Arte Moreno. They've built on that success, and a great farm system, to win consistently, something they struggled with before. Check out their Baseball Reference page. Did you know this is the first time they will ever finish above .500 four seasons in a row?

I don't see how you can hate a team that has been basically irrelevant to the Yankees for so much of their history. I think the only reason you dislike the Angels is that they are winning and beating the Yankees recently. But that is so new to generate any kind of real hate.

Angels fans have suffered for so long, they deserve to have some success the past 5 years. I'm not the type to go goofy over the Rally Monkey or to bang Thunderstix, and the rocks in the outfield are indeed odd. But I'm willing to overlook those things in the name of a franchise that has finally learned to develop and horde prospects, has great players, a great manager, and a great owner.

2007-08-21 07:41:24
16.   bobtaco
They need to bring up Britton already. Cash? Cash? Earth to Cash?
2007-08-21 07:48:56
17.   JL25and3
The players I hate most on the Angels are Darin Erstad and David Eckstein, and I don't give a crap that they're not on the team anymore. The Angels have long been the poster child for the moral superiority of contact hitting (singles and Productive Outs) combined with scrap and grit and hustle and determination. You can take your new-fangled stats, your On-Base and your OPQRS - you ignore how games are really won. Jason Giambi may take walks and hit home runs, but Scrapstad and Gritstein have the moral rectitude of ground balls, headfirst slides and dirty uniforms.

That's still the Angels to me. Hell, Gritstad and Scrapstein probably still win games for the Angels, such is the power of their hustle and determination.

And what I hate most is that they beat the Yankees with that bullshit. I effin' hate the Angels.

2007-08-21 07:50:36
18.   bartap74
Going to Farnsworth was indefensible. I know Edwar had pitched the day before, but if he was well enough to warm up in the bullpen (which he did), you've got to think he was well enough to pitch an inning, particularly given all the talk about his changeup being more effective when he's working regularly. He certainly couldn't have done much worse than Farnsworth.

The worst part? Torre's postgame interview in which he singled out Farnsworth for praise, noting that "he got himself into trouble" and "he got himself out of it," adding that he [Torre] felt "that was very important." Farnsworth "got himself out of trouble" via a sac bunt (1 out), a remarkable defensive play that saved a double (2 outs), and a bad call on a checked swing (3 outs).

If that's a performance that INCREASES Torre's faith in Farnsworth, we might as well give up on the postseason. Farnsworth needs to be either DFA'd or traded to Boston for a bag of balls and Chris Britton, tragic hero, needs to be promoted.

2007-08-21 07:52:52
19.   JL25and3
0 Emma, you know I love your English 101 references. Earlier this week Michael Kay said that the Tigers (or maybe Orioles) "will not go quietly into the night." I almost threw my shoe at the TV.
2007-08-21 08:01:20
20.   Mike T
I hate the Angels as much, if not more, than anyone here. They thoroughly disgust me. What disgusts me even more is how the Yankees are basically afraid of them, and cower before them like a bunch of frightened schoolchildren. How is it that the Yankees have the ability and potential to pummel every other team in MLB, but routinely get schooled by the Angels?
2007-08-21 08:04:27
21.   JL25and3
18 I think Torre's public BFOG statements actually mean less than they seem. With all the talk about Cairo earlier in the year, Joe stopped playing him as soon as he had a remotely viable alternative.

In this case, what would you have him say? "Farnsy squeaked through his inning but he still sucks royally?" Sonce Farnsworth is on the team, Joe's choice is to try to find some way to help him be useful, or not. If slinging a little shit in front of the cameras will help moderate Kyle's churlishness and help him feel like a contributor - and if that, in turn, changes his attitutde on the mound even a little - then that's what Joe will do.

2007-08-21 08:04:34
22.   Yankee Fan In Boston
20 posada cowered the snot out of that HR last night. and rodriguez's shot? (his 40th of the season.) looked like he was pretty frightened.

some teams match up well against others. it happens.

i personally don't see the fear that you're describing, though.

2007-08-21 08:11:16
23.   Mike T
22 A couple of home runs doesn't cover up for how badly a lot of the rest of the team played, both on the mound and at the plate. Even if all six of our runs had come on homers last night, we still lost a game that we should have won, maybe going away. Sending fly balls over the wall and out of play doesn't change that.
2007-08-21 08:21:07
24.   standuptriple
The Yanks gave up an extra out. It came back to bite them in the ass. You can't do that against good teams. First freakin' RBI of his career. I too hate the Angels sooo much. I and another Yanks fan are going to take it out on an OCer tonight for all of us.
2007-08-21 08:21:47
25.   standuptriple
24 Good God that was written horribly. That's how much the Halos piss me off!
2007-08-21 08:23:13
26.   Mike T
22 I will concede that maybe frightened isn't the right word, but it is definitely more than an on-the-field matchup problem. It's mental. If the Yankees win the next two games I will happily retract my comments because our guys will have beaten two good pitchers on the road. However, considering the Yankees' history vs this team, I think it's more likely that our guys get worked.
2007-08-21 08:24:32
27.   Yankee Fan In Boston
23 a one run loss in a 10 inning game doesn't mean anyone is "scared" of anyone else. saying that a team is playing poorly is one thing, trying to say team is afraid of their opposition is another.
2007-08-21 08:26:00
28.   Yankee Fan In Boston
26 However, considering the Yankees' history vs this team, I think it's more likely that our guys get worked.

unfortunately, i can agree with that.

2007-08-21 08:34:37
29.   JL25and3
15 That's not how I remember the Angels' history at all. 1986 wasn't their only shot at a World Series - it was their third ALCS in 8 years, along with two second-place finishes. They showed a knack for picking a player up a year too late, and they traded away more talent than they should have, but they had tons of good ballplayers go through there in those years. You meantion Ryan, Grich and Carew; there were also Don Baylor, Frank Tanana, Fred Lynn, Carney Lansford, Joe Rudi, Doug De Cinces, Brian Downing, and poor Lyman Bostock, among others. Oh yeah, and Reggie Jackson.

Even after that, there's just no comparing them with the Royals. The Angels had a lot of mediocre teams, some of which were still very much in contention; they had very few awful teams.
2007-08-21 08:34:50
30.   Chyll Will
Wowzers, I'm using this thread as a screensaver on the computer next to me at the office I'm temping in so that I can counteract the thermostat they apparently cemented on zero degrees. Between the heat coming from you guys and the ice age in this office, I should feel the perfect level of indifference >;)
2007-08-21 08:36:11
31.   JL25and3
30 You just need to import a few crickets.
2007-08-21 08:36:27
32.   Schteeve
18 If you just want to criticize Torre I guess the Farnsworth thing is the only thing you can find to nail him for, but let me remind you that Farnsworth pitched a scoreless inning. The move was not indefensible, and it fucking worked.

What was indefensible, was Phil Hughes walking 5 guys in 6.1 innings.

As for saying that we lost a game that we should have won, that's debatable. There were more than a few Ball/Strike calls that went our way that were, shall we say, questionable.

That game pisses me off so much, because after Betemit's play at first, I had this feeling that no matter what we were gonna find a way to win.

Finally, I don't know why people think Chone Figgins is overrated, he has a .391 OBP for chrissakes. Nobody claims he's A-Rod, but he is the definition of a pest. If anything, I think he's underrated. At least this season.

2007-08-21 08:47:40
33.   Shaun P
15 Sure, fine, I applaud Arte Moreno and Bill "I won't make trades" Stoneman and Scoscia. And Bud Black was a hell of a pitching coaching.

But JL25and3 captured half the reason to dislike the Angels in 17 , though he left out the worst part - Rex Hudler. That man alone is enough to make anyone hate the Angels, with a deep passion usually reserved for evil incarnate.

32 Maybe he's not overrated, but he is overhyped. His OBP this year is nice, but it too is overhyped, because its batting average driven (he's hitting over .340). Drop the average down to .280 and the OBP plummets as well, making him far less useful.

2007-08-21 08:48:04
34.   Dan M
I don't know if this was brought up in the in-game comments last night, but I feel that Melky is just as much to blame for the Matthews "double" as much as Cano is. The replays showed that Melky was not running towards the ball until it got through. In other words, he assumed that Cano would get it (even though Cano had to range far for it), and was not backing up the play. If he hustles and backs up the play from the start, there's no way that Matthews goes for second, let alone gets there safely.

Of course, Cano and Mely didn't walk the next 2 guys on 10 pitches.

2007-08-21 08:49:47
35.   Max
Unlike most here, I didn't have a problem with Farnsworth coming in the game when he did. Note: I wasn't remotely happy about it, but what were Torre's choices with Ramirez having gone two innings the day before?

I don't think Joe really trusts Farns or has him very high on a BFOG scale (and last night, thank god, will hopefully put him back in the doghouse where he belongs), but given a lack of options, and Farns' recent flukish success, it was worth a shot against a free swinging team.

Having said that, I know Farns is generally awful, but I thought last night he was bad beyond belief. He generally throws strikes and throws hard and occasionally has control issues, and his problem is that he's too dumb to really know how to manage the good stuff and get through the bad (without help from great plays like Betemit's). But last night, he wasn't finding the zone at all -- he had nothing, zero, and anything he threw near the zone was particularly hittable.

As Mattpat put it, his outs were sac bunt, incredible play by Betemit, and a horrible check swing call by the ump...what kind of divine intervention (or deal with the devil) gets you that kind of luck when your stuff is a total steaming pile? It might have been better for Farns to just give it up there (since everyone expected him to tank) and not stay up longer to lose the way we did.

2007-08-21 08:52:12
36.   Daniel Zappala
29 Yeah, so they had three shots in 40 years from 1961 to 2001. 1979 ALCS they lost 3-1. 1982 they won the first two games and lost 3-2. 1986 they needed one out and lost 3 games to 2 in one of the most heartbreaking losses ever. Would the Yankees consider that a winning tradition? Most fans here wouldn't even be satisfied with 3 shots in 8 years, especially with 3 miserable years of the remaining 5.

The point is, no Yankees fan ever worried about the Angels until 2002. Suddenly an up-and-coming team with a strong farm system and great management wins, and you hate them? Whatever.

2007-08-21 09:06:28
37.   mhmitch
36 "The point is, no Yankees fan ever worried about the Angels until 2002. Suddenly an up-and-coming team with a strong farm system and great management wins, and you hate them? Whatever."

Exactly. The fact that the Angels weren't even on Yankee fans' radar until 2002 and have just been killing us in the most annoying ways ever since is the reason for the hate. You should enjoy and embrace the hate. It means your team is doing well. I didn't hear long discussions on Talk Radio about how everyone hated the Yankees in 1990.

2007-08-21 09:13:48
38.   Emma Span
3 , 11 Yeah, you're right... I don't REALLY have a problem with the bullpen management last night, just couldn't resist pointing out that that's it's been an emotional summer for the Yankee relievers.

15 36 Daniel, of COURSE it's only because they've been beating the Yankees recently. But so what? You can't look for logic from sports fans, for whom six years of frustrating losses is plenty of time and reason to work up some good healthy hate. It's nothing personal.

32 Schteeve Figgins is definitely having a great season, but if you look at his career numbers, he's been pretty mediocre. And many people were indeed suggesting he be traded for A-Rod (along with Ervin Santana). Now, maybe this is the real Figgins, in which case he will have been a poor example for me to use, but he still spent the last four years being more or less league-average as a hitter. But like I said, I was searching for a reason to dislike various Angels, when there really aren't many... I've got nothing against Figgins.

2007-08-21 09:24:37
39.   rsmith51
38 I think part of my irrational dislike for the Angels has to do with staying up late and the Yankees losing. If I stay up late, I believe I should be rewarded.
2007-08-21 09:25:23
40.   JL25and3
36 I don't like the sense of entitlement many Yankee fans have, but in any case I wasn't comparing the Angels with the Yankees. I was responding to the assertion that the poor, poor Angels fans have had to suffer through decades of ineptitude, and we have to let them enjoy their moment in the sun. Only one chance at the WS, and that ended tragically - okay, really three chances, but who's counting.

For the last 30 years, the Angels have been a perfectly decent team overall, and the fans have no cause to wallow in their suffering. I don't like them because of their media image, I don't like them because they chose an embarrassingly stupid name to try to weasel out of a contract, and I don't like them because they wallop the tar out of the Yankees. And I have no sympathy for the suffering of their fans - they've just not been bad enough for that.

2007-08-21 09:26:04
41.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
Now you know how I feel about the Yankees!

(I had to say it.)

I guess everyone's gotta hate someone. Too bad human nature seems to work that way.

2007-08-21 09:32:15
42.   Daniel Zappala
40 I don't like the sense of entitlement many Yankee fans have


I have no sympathy for the suffering of their fans - they've just not been bad enough for that.

Which is why I have zero tolerance for all the moaning and whining that goes on here when the Yankees lose. Especially when they lose to a team with better pitching and a better overall record, yet this was a game they "should have won".

2007-08-21 09:35:37
43.   Yu-Hsing Chen
I agree with Cliff that was one of the more entertaining games from a neutural perspective. in fact the Yankees since the Tiger series have been playing a lot like that, where both teams are pretty darn desperate and throwing everything they can.

As for cowering to them, that's just ridiculasly, we faught back to tie or take the lead against them twice against 2 different reliever.

Some teams have the other team's number it's really just as simple as that. the Angels gets owned by the Red Sox, the Twins inexplicablly gets owned by us a lot more than they should.

Cano's always been a somewhat inconsistent guy, on most days he's Roberto Alomar out there, but there are quiet a few times when he look like Soriano. it's difficult to argue with the overall result though. check out his BP rate defensely.

I also can't really blame Torre's pen usage , now if he had gone to Henn in the 9th or something that's a different story, but come on we already used up everyone else except Henn and Villone, and seriously, pitching Mo 2 strait inning isn't a very good call in itself either. and i don't trust Villone a whole lot.

the 8th.. it's teh same deal , you pick between Farns / Villone / Henn.. it's really pick your poison time.

he threw his most reliable avalible RP in the 7th which was also the right move anyway.

the reality is simply that in the crucial situations they excuted better and/or had better luck.

I do agree that we should have Britton over Henn or Villone though.

2007-08-21 09:40:49
44.   JL25and3
42 I don't expect any sympathy. I also don't whine about games the Yankees should have won - though sometimes I get pissed at them for it. And I don't think it's any god-given right for the Yankees to win.

I just don't like the Angels - I don't loathe them like I loathe the Dodgers, but I don't like them. Btw, there have been plenty of teams who gave the Yankees fits, especially in big games, that I quite liked and respected: the mid-late 90's Mariners, the late-70s Royals, and the Weaver-era Orioles come to mind.

Just because I'm a Yankee fan, and the world hates the Yankees, doesn't mean that I can't have my own dislike for other teams. I don't like the Angels.

2007-08-21 09:49:06
45.   Bama Yankee
40 "I don't like them because..."

LOL. That sounds a little Dr. Seuss-ish:

I do not like their fake rocks
I do not like Vlad in the batter's box
I do not like them in the playoff mix
I do not like their stupid thunder stix
I do not like their closer who is funky
I do not like their cheesy rally monkey
I do not like the LA Angels of Ana-ham
I do not like them Sam-I-am

(Sorry, I have a three year old. So that's how my mind works these days)

2007-08-21 09:50:02
46.   Count Zero
5 OMG that was funny!

(Sorry - got here late this morning.)

2007-08-21 09:51:24
47.   Schteeve
Also, Rick Sutcliffe is unbearable.

He was on some rant about how Mike Soscia (or however I'm supposed to spell it) isn't afraid of Torre, and that other managers basically throw games because they have so much respect for Torre.

And O'Brien goes, "So you're saying that other managers don't try to win when they are up against Torr..." and Sutcliff cuts him off and goes "We've seen it. Absolutely."

So I'm thinking Selig might want to launch an investigation, because apparently other managers are submarining their teams out of deference, to Torre.

And my poor finace had no idea why I was so outraged about the whole thing and yelling at the TV.

2007-08-21 09:52:26
48.   ChrisS
43 Indeed, the bullpen was used as it should have been. Henn was the man and he got beat, eh no big deal.

However, the five BBs from Hughes does concern me. Especially since against Baltimore he was having a hard time staying out of deep counts. Though, granted his other peripherals are all as good or better than average.

Hughes keeps me on edge when he pitches, because he seems to be too careful and labors through each batter. Just my gut impression right now.

2007-08-21 09:54:15
49.   JL25and3
45 I'm sorry for you, Alabam-
A, sorry 'bout Green Eggs and Ham.
2007-08-21 09:55:30
50.   das411
17 - "The Angels have long been the poster child for the moral superiority of contact hitting (singles and Productive Outs) combined with scrap and grit and hustle and determination. You can take your new-fangled stats, your On-Base and your OPQRS - you ignore how games are really won. Jason Giambi may take walks and hit home runs, but Scrapstad and Gritstein have the moral rectitude of ground balls, headfirst slides and dirty uniforms." - and exactly how many championships have the Yankees won since, oh, say, bringing in Giambi and getting away from the ground balls, headfirst slides, and dirty uniforms of the O'Neill-Brosius-Knoblauch era?

As a neutral staying up waaaaaay too late to watch last night, that was probably the best regular-season game I've seen in a long time. Give me a tight, dramatic game like that, even if it ends on a flyball between Melky and Bobby "Todd Pinkston" Abreu, instead of an anonymous Yankee 10-1 victory in an empty ballpark (looking at you, Kansas City) any day!

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-08-21 09:55:50
51.   Zack
You are all forgetting perhaps the most galling element of last night's game. The Yanks went down meekly, A-Rod, Matsui, Posada, again'st Darren Oliver. Darren freaking Oliver!! AGGGGGHHHHH!!
2007-08-21 09:56:45
52.   YankeeInMichigan
10 The right-center gap in Angels Stadium. That brings back memories ....
2007-08-21 10:00:02
53.   Ben
The Halos are the team I love to hate. I am a very mellow rooter, enjoy a well fought loss as much as a routing victory. But the Angels, oooooh the Angels. They're cocky, they seem to play their best ball against us, achilles friggin heel, Goddamnit Soscia of all people to haunt the Yanks, small ball, smart, Ah!!!

Can't wait for tonight.

2007-08-21 10:03:10
54.   Chyll Will
45 Ahhh, thank you for saving me from the ravages of explicit ranting. So, are you and the lil' one gonna see "Horton Hears A Who" when it comes out?
2007-08-21 10:05:50
55.   YankeeInMichigan
52 Perhaps the ghost of Bubba Crosby is still lurking there.
2007-08-21 10:07:46
56.   Chyll Will
53 Ben, that's "achilles figgins heel, goddamnit Soscia," et al...

Soscia? Scoscia? Sioscia? Scioscia? Hansel? ...

2007-08-21 10:21:06
57.   Rob Middletown CT
We hate them because they're good and they've knocked the Yanks out of the playoffs twice in recent memory. It's that simple. It's not a personal hate (except maybe K-Rod).

It's a compliment, Daniel Zappala. Besides, we're Yankees fans. Everybody hates our team. So isn't it some sort of honor to have us deign to hate yours? ;)

The Yanks lost a tough game (winnable, but not "should have won") they could ill afford to lose. It wasn't mis-managed by Torre, nor did the Yanks get unlucky (by the sound of it, it was the other way 'round). They were beaten by a really good team.

That doesn't lessen the sting, since the Yanks need to win ballgames so badly. And WTF, Seattle?

THAT is the team I don't get. They have no business being this good. ;)

2007-08-21 12:05:47
58.   Daniel Zappala
51 You mean the Darren Oliver who has had a 1.04 ERA since the ASB?

Crazy, but Bud Black and now Mike Butcher have both been very good pitching coaches for the Angels.

2007-08-21 12:14:23
59.   vockins
42 You have zero tolerance for Yankees's fans whining, but you're going to submit yourself to thousands of words that do exactly that on a Yankees centric forum? And respond?

Whatever turns you on.

2007-08-21 12:18:44
60.   Daniel Zappala
59 The whining was last night's thread.
2007-08-21 12:37:25
61.   EricSanSan
Thank you for MLB Extra Innings. After about a half-inning of Sutcliffe blabbering about things that are completely untrue, I switched over quick to YES. For the first time in a long time, perhaps my whole Yankee following life (1998-present) I was excited to hear Michael Kay. Weird. Good old DirecTV.

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