Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
When You're Hot...You Win
2007-08-14 05:11
by Alex Belth
Note: The Bronx Banter blog has moved to

"We've been on the balls of our feet lately," Torre said. "We're not waiting for something to happen." Joe Torre
(Hartford Courant)

For most of the first half of the season it felt like the Yankees were always losing by three runs, even when the score was tied. Just one of those seasons, man. But now, as they are playing their best ball of the season, the Yankees are finding ways to win games, even when their ace pitcher does give up three runs in the first inning. And so it went last night in the Bronx as the Yanks won a nail-biter in the bottom of the ninth inning, 7-6. Mariano Rivera blew his first save since April 20th, but Derek Jeter's infield single drove home the winning run as the Yanks remain tied with the Mariners for the wildcard and just four games behind the Red Sox in the AL East.

I expect the Yankees to win these days, but I'm not that brave. I kept thinking they were going to find a way to lose last night, especially since Chien-Ming Wang was far from sharp for a second straight outing. They tacked-on runs after taking a 4-3 lead on Wilson Betemit's two-run homer in the second inning, but left runners on second and third twice with two out. They just could not seem to pull away, and the Orioles have been more than pesky against New York this year.

A two-out wild pitch with a runner on third and two men out by Ron Villone in the seventh inning shaved the Yankee lead to 6-5. Then came Joba Chamberlain in his Yankee Stadium debut. He fell behind Miguel Tejada 3-1 but came back to strike the slugger out on a wicked slider. Joba got ahead of Kevin Millar who grounded out sharply to Alex Rodriguez. Joba ended the inning by striking out Aubrey Huff with another nasty slider. Joba was pumped, the Stadium was rockin.

Onto the ninth, and here is where I really started to squirm, knowing that Rivera was not sharp on Sunday in Cleveland. Mo generally has a bad spell right around this time of year, so it's not as if I'm alarmed. Still, there was a ballgame to win. Melvin Mora singled and moved to second when Ramon Hernandez grounded out weakly in front of the plate. With all three outfielders playing in, Tike Redman--what a name!---blooped a single to center. Melky Cabrera charged the ball and fired a strike home where Mora was nailed for the second out of the inning.

"They were playing very shallow and I think it was a really poor decision by me," [O's third base coach, Juan] Samuel said. "That was my decision that cost us the ballgame. Yes, we tied, but you can't predict what's going to happen next. You have to make your decision on that particular play, and that was a bad one by me."
(The Baltimore Sun)

Redman moved to second on the throw, and Jorge Posada overthrew the bag trying to get him. Fortunately, Melky was there to back the play up. Unfortunately, that little gnat of a Yankee-Killer, Brian Roberts was up next. Right on cue, he fisted a little fly ball into shallow right. Abreu fielded the ball on a hop and fired home. The throw was in plenty of time but it was high. Posada had to jump to catch it and Redman slide in safely with the tying run.

But with one out in the ninth, Chad Bradford hit Melky in the back. Jason Giambi pinch-hit for Shelley Duncan (who had pinch-hit for Johnny Damon in the sixth) and singled between first and second. Cabrera took third, Jeter at the plate. Would the Yankees try a squeeze? Perhaps if Jeter could push a bunt towards second. Well, that is essentially what happened. Jeter swung and tapped a dinky ground ball past Bradford. Roberts charged and fielded the ball, but it was too late. Cabrera, who doubled earlier in the game to extend his career-high hitting streak to 18 games, crossed the plate and the Yankees had themselves another win.

We'll take it.

Comments (164)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-08-14 06:11:03
1.   Cliff Corcoran
They wuz lucky. Jeter's one of the best bunters on the team. They should have squeezed on purpose, not by accident. Another reason they should have squeezed on purpose: Farnsworth was warming to pitch the tenth. Can't take chances in that situation, you have to make sure you win in then and there.

Still, a huge win what with Karstens going tonight and Bedard, as it turns out, pitching tomorrow's afternoon finale (great matchup by the way, Hughes v. Bedard, that should be a fun game). Now if only Seattle would stop winning. They outlasted Johan Santana last night to beat the Twins stellar bullpen. What's with those M's?

2007-08-14 06:14:28
2.   Sliced Bread
The 2007 Yankees savior has arrived, and his initials are JC. Jesus H. Chamberlain the kid is fist pumpin', sit-the-eff-down good.

Melky's pea to the plate was as assured, as true as a pitch from Mo in his prime. Posada could have put up an espresso cup for a target. 4th outfielder, my ass.

Oh, to have Straw back on the bench in the body and bat of Jason Giambi...

No pressure on Karstens today, right?

2007-08-14 06:18:59
3.   Sliced Bread
Sure, a bunt would have been preferable to a dink, but Jeter's still up for the Nobel Prize for Winning.
2007-08-14 06:29:16
4.   rsmith51
I keep saying the M's will fall off, but they keep pace with the Yanks. Eventually they have to drop off, right?

I was looking at the Dbacks run differential. -20 and second best record in majors. What is the deal with that?

2007-08-14 06:29:57
5.   Chyll Will
Somebody painted two pictures of A-Rod with a hot dog with the works... what a waste of a good hot dog!
2007-08-14 06:32:57
6.   RIYank
4 Who are those guys?
2007-08-14 06:35:03
7.   Sliced Bread
5 ... better that than making an A-Rod sculpture from a falafel pita, I suppose.
2007-08-14 06:35:55
8.   RichB
Hate to beat a dead horse, but... why Villone in a 2 run game? He just finds ways to let inherited runners score! Wang only had 94 pitches on him. Argh... Torre's bullpen management drives me insane.
2007-08-14 06:36:26
9.   Alex Belth
Those painters were horrific. Second-rate Andy Warhol, and wasn't Warhol a second-rate something in the first place?

Cliff, you are so right about them being lucky, especially with Farmadooke warming up. I was praying they could avoid going longer, to spare us from Farns.

2007-08-14 06:40:51
10.   Cliff Corcoran
Hey, yeah, I forgot about that. I was hoping to get some solid art criticism from our man Alex B. I mean, who the heck is Peter Max anyway, and how did he get such prestigious commissions simply by fingerpainting found objects and around enlarged photographs. "Congratulations on your 500th home run, Alex, here's some bad art." Really, "bad art" doesn't even begin to cover it.
2007-08-14 06:40:58
11.   RIYank
What's the success rate for a suicide squeeze with a good bunter (Jeter, say)? I think it's fairly low, maybe 50% or so.

Also: why didn't they pinch run for Giambi? To stay out of the DP, I mean (imagine if Jeter's squibbler had been hit harder).

2007-08-14 06:41:55
12.   Count Zero
Not to defend the art (because I didn't really care for it) -- but I believe those were both Peter Max works. Most of you kids are too young to remember Peter Max posters I think? I can only guess that A-Rod must have a thing for that retro stuff or they wouldn't have chosen him?
2007-08-14 06:42:37
13.   JohnnyC
BTW, did you catch the expression on Farns' face when he got up to warm? Man, they have got to get him off the roster somehow. The way he's pitched and his current can't let him pitch. He's not a part of the team anymore.
2007-08-14 06:43:54
14.   Count Zero
11 That's a safety squeeze situation which has a higher success rate. But we'll need someone else to answer the numbers question... :-)
2007-08-14 06:43:55
15.   Sliced Bread
9 and did you catch Farmadooke's fearful hang-dawg "you wouldn't hit a guy wearing glasses, would you?" expression as he was warming up in the pen?

Didn't look like he was chomping at the bit to get into the game.

2007-08-14 06:43:58
16.   Dimelo
Yeah I thought the pictures were kind of cheesy. The background on both those paintings looked like fresh vomit outside a spring break nightclub. Why couldn't they dig up that dude from channel 13? He would have done a much better job.

8 I thought Villone pitched fine, he had a wild pitch. Shit happens. Torre is doing a great job of managing right now, I guess I'm in the minority if I'm the only one who is noticing.

2007-08-14 06:44:41
17.   Sliced Bread
13 d'oh! beat me to it!
2007-08-14 06:44:45
18.   JohnnyC
11 Outside of Molina or a pitcher, there was no one left to pinch-run.
2007-08-14 06:45:39
19.   vockins
9 re: Andy Warhol

Surely you jest.

2007-08-14 06:46:39
20.   JohnnyC
13 Seriously, sliced, I don't like the idea of keeping someone on the roster who, obviously, is deep in the doghouse...and won't exactly acquiesce it.
2007-08-14 06:48:05
21.   JohnnyC
17 Didn't mean to be self-referential.
2007-08-14 06:52:13
22.   rbj
Sure it's crappy art, but it seems to be what people want these days (and don't get me started on the Jackson Pollack $%@#$%!@#$). How does LeRoy Nieman continue to get work?

What I'm concerned about is Mo not having his brush strokes down for two games in a row. Don't think Torre will use him three straight days, especially if he's "off", so time for Yankee bats to pound Cabrera today.

2007-08-14 06:53:41
23.   RIYank
Have you guys seen the Gary Matthews quote?

On Red Sox Nation:

"They're loud, they're drunk, they're obnoxious, it's one of the few places where you hear racial comments . . . it's just different," Angels center fielder Gary Matthews Jr. said.

"It's different than New York." Matthews said. "Yankees fans are passionate about their team, but they're a little more couth, they have a little more class than Boston fans. At least in New York, they appreciate guys who play the game hard and play the game right, and they let you know it. In Boston, they just smash you for three straight days, they're just dogging you the whole time."

2007-08-14 06:56:47
24.   RIYank
18 Wow, that's right. I hadn't realized that. They used everybody last night, except Molina.
2007-08-14 07:00:43
25.   Chyll Will
10 Is there any way to retroactively boo a painting?
2007-08-14 07:04:43
26.   williamnyy23
22 Leroy Nieman is the proper reference point. In fact, before Max was introduced, I thought "oh no...another Leroy Nieman special". Interestingly, Peter Max has done a lot of high profile work in sports and politics and Arod is an art collector, so perhaps his selection was a nod to Arod's artistic tastes.
2007-08-14 07:06:39
27.   JL25and3
10 Tempus fugit. "Who the heck is Peter Max anyway" could not have been asked by anyone who was around in, say, 1972 or earlier.

22 Pollock is one of my very favorite artists ever.

2007-08-14 07:11:15
28.   Alex Belth
Ballplayers aren't really known for their...taste. That dude Neiman is one of the luckiest bastards ever to make such a killing of living selling that schlock. And while I'm not a fan of Jackon Pollack, you can't lump him in with a real hack like Neiman. Pollack was a big deal and there was a method to his madness. He was a giant in American art, especially in helping establish New York as the art captial of the world in the late 40s and early 50s. For my money, his chief rival, Willem deKooning, is the superior painter and draftsman. But that's just my taste. And you know what they say about taste...
2007-08-14 07:15:09
29.   vockins
22 These days? Jackson Pollack?

Have you guys heard about this kid the Yanks just signed from Oklahoma? I hear he's pretty good.

2007-08-14 07:15:14
30.   Chyll Will
27 Maybe, if we can set the boo date to 1972, this would've never happened? >;)
2007-08-14 07:17:53
31.   RIYank
I'm listening to Steve Phillips being interviewed on local sportstalk radio. My god, he is so stupid. It's mind-boggling.

One of the hosts -- a football jock, not exactly a dazzling sabermetrician -- is running rings around Phillips. Phillips declared that the Yankees will not make the play-offs because pitching is what's important for consistent winning, and the Sox have it while the Yanks do not. So the football jock say, "Huh, now Steve, why is it that the Red Sox are 35-32 since mid-May, if their starting pitching is so great?" Phillips thought for a while. Then he astutely pointed out that it's because the Red Sox haven't scored a lot of runs this summer.

Now he's talking about the Mariners. This guy and Joe Morgan are ESPN's baseball analysts. I am finding this very difficult to understand.

2007-08-14 07:19:32
32.   williamnyy23
28 Perhaps more than most styles, Pop art is truly in the eye of the beholder. There doesn't really seem to be an in between with Max and Nieman...either you love their style or you hate it. Hopefully, Arod loves it, because if he stays, there's more where that came from ;)

Also, whether you like the art or not, it was pretty funny to watch Max pull the curtain off his sculpture, only to have it go crashing to the ground. It was kind of like the Scooter/Holy Cow incident.

2007-08-14 07:20:58
33.   JeremyM
23 Not to start anything, but I recently clicked on a few Sox blogs to get the lay of the land, which is something I do about once a year. A couple of them were fine, but I was really surprised by the tone of a lot of them: the MF Yankees this and Chokers that, kind of harsh stuff compared to the usual tone I see from the Yankees sites I frequent.
2007-08-14 07:24:31
34.   williamnyy23
23 Didn't Orlando Cabrera favorably compare Red Sox fans to Yankees fans earlies in the season? Maybe he and Matthews could debate the topic. Of course, Matthews is a neutral party, while Cabrera holds a bias in favor of Boston.
2007-08-14 07:24:33
35.   JL25and3
8 He brought in Villone because Roberts was hitting .341/.413/.525 lefty vs .263/.374/.336 righty, there were two lefties coming up after him (Patterson had a home run, Markakis a walk and HBP), and Wang certainly hadn't been impressive.

It may have been an arguable decision, but it was hardly a brainless one.

2007-08-14 07:27:07
36.   williamnyy23
35 It's always better to turn Roberts matter how bad the lefty is. I have no problem with any of Torre's moves last night...I just wish he would avoid using his better relievers in blowout victories.
2007-08-14 07:27:57
37.   JL25and3
32 I'd say I'm indifferent towards Max. In the 60s his stuff looked cute and shiny and pseudo-psychedelic - graphic art worthy of black-light posters, decent in that genre but no more than that.

Love Warhol, hate Nieman.

2007-08-14 07:29:51
38.   Chyll Will
34 There is the hero factor working in Cabrera's favor, coupled with the fact that he was allowed to escape before the slippery slope made it's way back to Fenway. Jim Rice complained a whole lot about RSN, from what I understand.
2007-08-14 07:30:28
39.   Cliff Corcoran
32 I disagree. I think most Niemans are garrish and awful, but I've seen one or two that I thought actually captured something, be it in their portrayal of their subject or in their technique (no, really). Hopping over to Max's web site, I was able to remind myself of his influence and importance in the psychedelic movement. Not high art in my opinion, but important iconography. That crap he gave to Rodriguez last night, however . . . eek.

As for Rodriguez's tastes, he didn't look too thrilled with the pieces, but then maybe I was just projecting.

2007-08-14 07:36:55
40.   jalexei
Please people, it's "Pollock", and while I love a lot of his work, I'll agree with Mr. Belth that deKooning rocked. Peter Max has done some interesting things, but I still think he works better as a poster artist than a painter.

Even if you're not a fan, movie buffs should check out "Pollock" the movie, Ed Harris' homage to Jackson. Ed's resemblance to Jackson is eerie, and the movie features some footage of Jackson himself painting - there was indeed a method to his madness. Harris was nominated for an Oscar and Marcia Gay Harden won for her portrayal of Lee Krasner. And speaking of deKooning, Val Kilmer does a spot-on cameo.

In terms of baseball, it's nice to be back in that spot where you "know" they're going to win, instead of having all the Farnsworth-ian ways they'll blow it run through your head -

2007-08-14 07:40:43
41.   Chyll Will
39 You're probably right about A-Rod's reaction, but what is he gonna say? "I hit 500 HRs and all I get is this?? Wow, you guys suck, I'm definitely not coming back here next year..."

At any rate, Peter Max may have been "valid" for lack of a better term at some point, but to me (and to put it in terms I can relate to) it's like reading a comic strip from the same creator who was relevant a generation ago, but now is just sadly fulfilling a syndicate mandate. Oh well...

2007-08-14 07:44:26
42.   RIYank
38 Rice did complain, yeah. That was quite a while ago, though. It's dismaying to me that Matthews still hears a lot of racial stuff. (Not shocking, but dismaying.)
2007-08-14 07:44:56
43.   Alex Belth
A Rod and taste, mmm. Dude frosts his hair. I mean, who--other than rich ballplayers--does that anymore?
2007-08-14 07:46:39
44.   Sliced Bread
Just got some sad news. A co-worker just received word that Phil Rizzuto has passed away.

Haven't seen or heard anything official yet, but oddly, his page has been updated with today as his date of death.


If it's true, Heaven just got a heck of a shortstop, and quite the loveable play-by-play man.

2007-08-14 07:46:49
45.   JohnnyC
They could have commissioned Richard Sloane, much heralded as the "next LeRoy Nieman." HBO uses him and he recently did some stuff for the UFC. On the other hand, he is British.
2007-08-14 07:46:55
46.   unpopster
since we're on the subject of art, there's an artist up in Beantown who has started a business painting WW2 popaganda style poster art "celebrating the Red Sox/Yankees rivalry". It's very Shepard Fairey-esque and it's actually beautiful stuff. Personally, I love it. Now if only it didn't pay tribute to Red Sox players:

I just sent him an email letting him know how much I like the art but that if he really wanted to "celebrate the rivalry" that he'd be better off adding some posters representing the actual rivalry, such as an unbiased Mariano/Papelbon poster.

By the way, if he did I'd throw down some sheckels for his posters -- even if he IS a Sawx fan.

2007-08-14 07:50:08
47.   Chyll Will
43 I dunno, ex-boybanders who have something they want to share? Oh, and I think they still do that among the trendy in the Meatpacking District...
2007-08-14 07:51:50
48.   Mattpat11
44 My father just heard it on the radio. Its very sad, but I think he's been in very poor health for a while now, so it may be for the best.
2007-08-14 07:53:34
49.   Sliced Bread has the Rizzuto story up.
2007-08-14 07:53:47
50.   Chyll Will
44 Wow. I need confirmation...
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-08-14 07:54:25
51.   williamnyy23
44 I haven't found any confirmation. If it's true, it is definitely a very sad day in Yankee land. The Scooter was the voice of several generations of Yankee fans and a true New York icon.

I know the team already has the black arm band, but they need to do something else to commemorate the passing. Maybe his #10 on the sleeve, or even "Holy Cow" on the back of their caps?

2007-08-14 07:55:48
52.   Chyll Will
49 Right. God Bless Scooter. I'll see you guys later...
2007-08-14 07:58:18
53.   williamnyy23
It is going to be a very emotional night at Yankee Stadium today.
2007-08-14 08:05:35
54.   Sliced Bread
... all the summer nights spent with Scooter.

As a Yankee fan, you had to love the guy like an uncle.

Rest In Peace, Scooter Rizzuto.

2007-08-14 08:10:15
55.   Count Zero
Oh - now I am very sad. There's another piece of my childhood gone. I'm gonna' miss that huckleberry.
2007-08-14 08:14:48
56.   weeping for brunnhilde
11 You think 50% is low?
2007-08-14 08:15:21
57.   Cliff Corcoran
54 Perfectly said, Sliced. Scooter may be the Yankee I hold most dear. I knew he was on the way out, but the news has cast a pall over an otherwise beautiful day.
2007-08-14 08:19:51
58.   ChrisS
Holy cow ...

I've missed listening to him on the broadcasts, and when I eat a cannoli (which is rarely) Scooter always comes to mind.

2007-08-14 08:20:11
59.   MainLineYankee
I grew up with his voice. He was the best. I'll say a prayer today for him and the Rizzuto family.
2007-08-14 08:20:51
60.   RIYank
56 Yeah.
Look, his batting avg. with runners in the corners is .375. Add all the ways he could drive the run in by swinging (the dribbler, a sac fly, an E, beating out a DP) and I figure it's well above .500. No?
2007-08-14 08:21:23
61.   williamnyy23
57 I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that Rizzuto has been one of the most beloved, recognizable and influential Yankees of all time. I think his passing really deserves something special, starting with tonight's game. I'd like to see more than a moment of silence…the Scooter deserves a game of silence. The only noise out of the PA tonight should be Sheppard's. Also, I'm sure the Bleacher Creatures wont need to be prompted to add him to tonight's roll call.
2007-08-14 08:21:25
62.   Start Spreading the News
It is a sad day in Yankee land. We'll miss you Scooter. You were a part of our lives for many many years.
2007-08-14 08:21:50
63.   dianagramr

His game-calling certainly took a back seat to his story-telling in his later years, but I grew up with Messer, White and Rizzuto.

Rest in Peace Phil. You were one-of-a-kind.

2007-08-14 08:22:29
64.   Jen
53 You ain't kidding. We all knew this was coming but it doesn't make it any less sad.

I do have an extra for tonight if anyone would like to go to the game with me. Bleachers. $10 (I'll eat the $2 email fee in honor of Scooter).
email: jen AT nosenseworrying DOT com

2007-08-14 08:23:44
65.   BklynBmr
Rest in Peace, Scooter. And thanks for the memories. You were the best!
2007-08-14 08:23:56
66.   weeping for brunnhilde
32 I don't really believe it's just in the eye of the beholder, william. I mean, of course it is, but that doesn't mean that there aren't some--God, I hate to say--"objective" standards about things like composition, color, etc.

Those things were just all over the place, loud, garish, cliched, with no underlying unity or vision.

It's one thing to see something like that on a wall in the Bronx, done in spray paint. That's honest.

But they lost me with the act of unveiling.

If you're going to hype something up, veil it, and unveil it in a dramatic moment, it really ought to not make one wince and recoil in horror when the veil is lifted.

Just because it's pop art doesn't mean it doesn't have to display some awareness of aesthetics.

Oh, God, I just can't take thinking about those paintings.

Abominations...worse than pulling an outside pitch, even.

2007-08-14 08:24:20
67.   domvjr
May You Rest in Peace, Phillip Francis Rizzuto! Another Yankee hero of mine, belongs to the ages!
2007-08-14 08:24:28
68.   Raf
44 And it appears people are already desecrating his Wiki entry... Unless Scooter actually did die of a heroin overdose.
2007-08-14 08:24:58
69.   Sliced Bread
Some Scooterisms from Plenty more where these came from, too:

"Well that kind of puts the damper on even a Yankee win." - on the news of Pope Paul VI's death

"I'll never forget September 6th, 1950. I got a letter threatening me, Hank Bauer, Yogi Berra and Johnny Mize. It said if I showed up in uniform against the Red Sox I'd be shot. I turned the letter over to the FBI and told my manager Casey Stengel about it. You know what Casey did? He gave me a different uniform and gave mine to Billy Martin. Can you imagine that! Guess Casey thought it'd be better if Billy got shot."

"I like radio better than television because if you make a mistake on radio, they don't know. You can make up anything on the radio."

2007-08-14 08:28:01
70.   yankz
R.I.P. Scooter. Here's the WNBC story:
2007-08-14 08:29:17
71.   dianagramr
Interesting factoid from story:

"Rizzuto, nicknamed "The Scooter," was the oldest living member of the Baseball Hall of Fame when he died."

2007-08-14 08:30:35
72.   weeping for brunnhilde
39 Cliff, I actually just went to see the Summer of Love exhibition at the Whitney with my dad the other day. It was nice hearing him reminisce about seeing Jefferson Airplane at the Fillmore.

But they had some pop art there that suprised me. Stuff very poppy as far as imagery goes, but with a clear command of technique, i.e., form, color, etc.

You should check it out if you've not already.

2007-08-14 08:32:25
73.   Start Spreading the News
In many ways, Rizzuto represented the innocence of baseball. He played for the love of the game. He played it with wide eyed enthusiasm and naivete until the day he was cut. He was unsullied by the dark side of baseball: greenies, gambling and sordid divorces.

According to one telling, he didn't know what the metaphor was when he helped Meatloaf with "Paradise by the Dashboard Lights". So a few weeks later after the taping, the song becomes a hit. His kids are walking around like "Alright, Dad, you are so cool." At that point, he was puzzled. So when they played the song for him, it dawned on him what he had done. Life had pranked him, like the Yankees used to prank him when he played.

2007-08-14 08:34:59
74.   JL25and3
Ah, Scooter. I'll be there tonight, and I hope they give a worthwhile tribute.

I spent more than 30 years listening to Rizzuto, and all of us have our favorite Rizzuto memories.

Messer: Hey, Scooter, what do you think - maybe Curt Flood went to Spain to become a matador.
Rizzuto (not missing a beat): Yep, yep, maybe that - or maybe a bullfighter.

But in between the hysterical reactions, the cannolis, the birthdays, the malapropisms, his bride Cora and so on - Scooter could astonish me by how much he knew about baseball. Late in his career, a pitch came way inside on someone, and the pitch clearly deflected as the batter went flying. The other announcer (I don't remember who) said, "It looked like it got him on the hand." Scooter decisively said no, it hit on the knob of the bat - and immediately added, "What you gotta do in that situation is, while you're on the ground, pinch the side of your hand real hard, then get up and show the ump that it's red."

Anyone who hasn't read The Poetry of Phil Rizzuto should try to find a copy. I have it at home, and I'll try to post an excerpt or two later on.

2007-08-14 08:37:32
75.   williamnyy23
71 That makes Bobby Doerr, also 89 (but a half year younger), the oldest living member.
2007-08-14 08:40:24
76.   JL25and3
71 I actually knew that. I assume that the oldest living HOFer is now Feller, born a year aftre Scooter.
2007-08-14 08:40:40
77.   JL25and3
75 D'oh!
2007-08-14 08:43:54
78.   williamnyy23
Somewhere Scooter, Mercury and Ratso are meowing ...

There are too many Scooter moments to recount. I always remember his call of the Pine Tar game on the radio side ("they did it to Munson") as well as his lashing out at Steve Balboni's slowness after Bones grounded out into a double play that took 2 days to turn.

Also, Saturday morning TV wouldn't have been the same without "Phil Rizzuto from the Money Store".

2007-08-14 08:44:01
79.   Bookworm
I think there was at least one series of baseball cards designed/done by Peter Max. Looked it up: 1997 Topps Gallery Peter Max Serigraphs. Maybe that's why he did the A-Rod art -- because he's done baseball art before?
2007-08-14 08:46:11
80.   yankz
Complete footage of the ceremony is up on At least the Jeter/Arod moment was nice.
2007-08-14 08:47:13
81.   weeping for brunnhilde
Rest in peace, Scooter, rest in peace.

Huckleberry, indeed.

I remember when Pags came up the guys in the booth turned to Scooter for the pronunciation.

"Not PAG-li-a-rulo, Pal-ya-RU-lo."

He loved saying that.

2007-08-14 08:49:16
82.   joe in boston
Wow, terrible news about the Scooter. I had a feeling he was at the end of the line. I was running errands with my 2 1/2 year old and came back home (first think to check was the Banter) and saw the posts.
74 You're lucky to go tonight - great comments too -

I lost my dad this spring (old time true Italian Yankee fan). I'm sure he and the Scooter are sharing a laugh now.

2007-08-14 08:50:50
83.   weeping for brunnhilde
74 ""What you gotta do in that situation is, while you're on the ground, pinch the side of your hand real hard, then get up and show the ump that it's red.""

Ha ha hah ah aha!!

That's beautiful.

Simply beautiful.

2007-08-14 08:50:59
84.   seamus
I heard about scooter and had to pop in. This is so incredibly sad. As I'm sure with everyone else, I've always associated watching the Yankees on tv with Rizzuto. It really is like he built a personal connection with you. And while I'm not shocked given his age and health, it still blows me away.

Rest in Peace Scooter! We'll miss you.

2007-08-14 08:54:50
85.   thurmtheman
To quote the Scooter himself who said this when it was announced during a Yankee telecast that Pope John Paul I had died: "This could even put a damper on a Yankee victory".
2007-08-14 08:57:40
86.   weeping for brunnhilde
It's funny, I watched the Yankees everyday for years and yet can't think of any discrete Scooter moments.

He was just always there. He's left an indelible impression on me, but it's all kind of a blur of Cora, cannoli, golf, misjudged homeruns, scolding players when they deserved it, comraderie with White and Messer, and just overall good vibes.

He was a warm human being and that warmth just illuminated the broadcasts as I fell in love with baseball and the Yankees as a little kid.

I also liked the idea of Scooter the player. Great, great nickname, and he was a shortstop, like I was, known for bunting, speed and fielding.

Maybe the greatest role model I never saw play.

2007-08-14 09:00:45
87.   joe in boston
86 I agree. Others have better memories than I as far as specific conversations. I listened to many games/watched many games. I just remember how the 3 of them (Scooter, Frank Messer and Bill White) would switch every 3 innings from radio/TV - unheard of now. Of course, Scooter would always leave early ...
2007-08-14 09:07:35
88.   weeping for brunnhilde
87 Yes! The switching between tv and radio, exactly.

What ever happened to that?

2007-08-14 09:08:42
89.   JL25and3
73 That's true about "Paradise by the Dashboard Light." I heard Scooter talk about it once - he said he couldn't figure out why it took so long for the guy to get from third to home.
2007-08-14 09:09:59
90.   Shaun P
I loved the Scooter, and I still miss his voice calling games. He always makes me think of cannolis, because of his reaction to a gift of cannolis my father, brother and I gave him when we met him during an autograph tour in 1996. But that's a story for another day.

I hope Mel Allen and Red Barber and the rest let Scooter call some games every once in a while. Rest in peace, and thanks for all the memories.

2007-08-14 09:10:37
91.   joe in boston
88 I'm sure modern business doesn't allow it. Those broadcasts were so much fun to watch and listen to.
2007-08-14 09:12:00
92.   joe in boston
Even my kids get a kick out of Scooters' rap on "Paradise..." - and they are only 4 1/2 and 2 1/2 ! (Of course they don't get the REAL meaning of the song ....)
2007-08-14 09:14:07
93.   Knuckles
Anyone remember when Topps re-made their 1953 set, in the early 90's? They were paintings, not photos, probably the most beautiful baseball cards ever. We got my dad the set for his bday or Xmas and he was like a kid again.

Then soon after, we went to Cooperstown, the first and only time I've been. We were each allowed a "present" in one of the many memorabilia stores, and I picked out a re-released Rizzuto 1953 card, signed by The Scooter himself. That thing was the greatest. I was just thinking about it recently, as we're moving soon and I'm gonna have some more space to fill, and was thinking about a shelf with a handful of my best old baseball stuff on it.

He mighta ducked out in the 7th inning of many a broadcast, but you gotta say he played his life to the full nine innings.

2007-08-14 09:14:18
94.   Yankee Fan In Boston
i met scooter at a signing event when i was a kid. he couldn't have been a nicer guy. i feel like i just got punched in the gut.
2007-08-14 09:14:54
95.   rbj
Rest in Peace, Scooter. I grew up with his voice on tv/radio. IIRC, he mentioned a few times that during the war he was in the navy -- stationed in the desert Southwest. Somehow, that's fitting for him. Sad to see him go, but he had a great life -- lifelong happy marriage, starter for so many great Yankee teams, Hall of Famer and a whole second act as an announcer for the Yankees. And even though he wasn't happy when the Yankees decided to retire him, I don't think he ever badmouthed the team over it. Truly, he was a role model.

The rest of this season is dedicated to the Scooter.

2007-08-14 09:17:23
96.   Yankee Fan In Boston
95 The rest of this season is dedicated to the Scooter.

it'd be nice to have his #10 on their sleeves. he deserves something like that to mark his passing.

2007-08-14 09:20:57
97.   pistolpete
Oh man, I just switched over from kiddie programming and saw Pablo Guzman on CBS-2 talking about 'Cora' and how the entire Yankee family would be sad.

I instantly knew what happened. So sad...

RIP, Scooter.

2007-08-14 09:23:55
98.   JL25and3
95 I'm not sure if you mean his retirement as an announcer or a player. The end of his playing career was handled in a mean and miserable way by the Yankees - George Weiss and Casey Stengel, that is. Stengel also brushed Rizzuto off contemptuously when he tried out for the Dodgers - "Get a shoeshine box."

Scooter may never have badmouthed the team, but he never had anything nice to say about Stengel.

2007-08-14 09:29:12
99.   Raf
While I enjoyed many of Scooter's broadcasts, I remember broadcasts of his HoF Induction Speech. Pure Scooter.
2007-08-14 09:38:34
100.   weeping for brunnhilde
60 Point taken.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-08-14 09:39:43
101.   joe in boston
99 check this out if you have a half an hour to spare

look for the video highlights-

2007-08-14 09:46:07
102.   yankz
Steinbrenner made a very nice statement, check it out at LoHud.
2007-08-14 10:09:50
103.   RIYank
I never know what to say when somebody dies. I always want to say nothing. But, damn.
2007-08-14 10:15:08
104.   OldYanksFan
66 Well said. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, and sometimes really ugly art may be 'bold', 'daring' or 'challenging', but it's still really ugly.

Did anyone on the Yankees review that ceremony and picture? My God, what a joke.

2007-08-14 10:15:15
105.   bp1
I find myself thinking about Yogi. This has to hit him particularly hard. There aren't many of his generation left.

RIP Scooter. You deserve it. Thank you for all the nights I stayed up listening to your voice instead of going to sleep like I should have been (and like my parents thought I was). You were a fan's best friend, and like Sliced said above, I loved ya' like an uncle. I'll smile today and think of many good times we shared and maybe buy a box of cannoli's for the family. Say Hi to Billy and Thurm and the rest.

2007-08-14 10:19:10
106.   Chyll Will
103 Just write whatever comes to mind. That's what I did (sigh) If you feel like freewriting or scribbling before you compose something nice here, you're all welcome to use my spot as well :(
2007-08-14 10:21:32
107.   weeping for brunnhilde
106 Well said, Will. Well said.

Of course, RI, sometimes there's nothing to say, and that's all right too.

2007-08-14 10:22:24
108.   cult of basebaal
obviously, the way for arod to get around actually having to display that monstrosity (and he can't very well sell it any time soon) is to give it to the Hall of Fame ... he comes off looking like a great guy and then it's somebody elses nightmare to deal with

was that thing some unannounced attempt by the yankees to help with the coming energy crisis??? i mean, jesus, that thing was so garishly bright it could turn midnight at the bottom of a mine shaft into a sunny summer's day ...

2007-08-14 10:29:17
109.   weeping for brunnhilde
108 ha ah ah aha ha ha hah aha!

Reminds me of the elephant in India. The czar--no, he's not a czar, what the hell is he, the raj?--would give an elephant to some rival nobleman as a "gift" but the costs of maintaining the beast would bankrupt the nobleman who was obligated to care for the thing lest he offend the raj by refusing the gift.

2007-08-14 10:35:10
110.   jalexei
I remember over the Fourth looking at my father-in-law's Yankee "Wall of Fame" (nothing particularly valuable, just a bunch of framed prints and lots of those Daily News and Post inserts of the various WS winners and player profiles) and seeing a young Phil, and having the sad thought (as I quickly calculated his age) that he probably wouldn't be around much longer. Wish I hadn't been so close to the mark.

When I was growing up in the mid to late '70's, we rarely got to the Stadium, but just about every night after we'd been out playing and had a bit of dinner, I'd settle into the couch with my Dad and watch the Yanks on WPIX. I think even then I thought he was a bit nuts, but in the way of an endearing uncle. And now, having married into an Italian family, I really do feel like I've lost an uncle - I think I'm going to stroll over to the North End and get a cannoli at Modern... Godspeed.

2007-08-14 10:39:41
111.   Chyll Will
108 Are you kidding? Give it to ConEd: No more worries about power outtages during a bad rainstorm!

Or better yet, give it to Mayor Bloomberg so he could include it in his congestion pricing plan: put copies of those all along 86th Street; it'll stop traffic dead in its tracks and keep just about everyone out of lower Manhattan!

(except PETA, who'll probably use it in their next ad campaign against animal torture... nor will it likely deter people leaving Las Vegas...)

2007-08-14 10:40:48
112.   weeping for brunnhilde
"Hey look at that, Ma, one dog's going one way, the other dog's going the other way! And you got this guy going "Hey, what do you want from me?""

Anyone, anyone?

2007-08-14 10:43:28
113.   Howie
109 At first, I thought that was a Scooter story from a game on a cold night in Milwaukee in the 80s.
2007-08-14 10:44:42
114.   pistolpete
112 Goodfellas
2007-08-14 10:45:31
115.   Chyll Will
112 A-Rod's daughter's first words as they brought the paintings home?
2007-08-14 10:45:42
116.   tommyl
I'll tell my Scooter story. I actually went to high school with his granddaughter. After the ceremony, one of my uncles comes up to me and says, "This is one of my greatest days ever!" At this point, I'm touched he cares so much.

Then he says, "I just met Phil Rizzuto!"

2007-08-14 10:47:24
117.   weeping for brunnhilde
114 Ding ding ding.

115 Not quite, but thanks for playing. :)

2007-08-14 10:50:22
118.   Chyll Will
117 Ya gotta admit, it was a good guess >;)
2007-08-14 10:52:35
119.   weeping for brunnhilde
118 Heh heh. Granted.
2007-08-14 10:56:58
120.   3rd gen yankee fan
RIP Scooter. One of my all-time favorite Yankees. Man, did his broadcasts teach me a lot about baseball, and life. Man I'll miss him.
2007-08-14 10:57:53
121.   Chyll Will
116 Ow. Art imitates life, or the other way around? >;)
2007-08-14 11:02:05
122.   E-Rocker
Not to be off subject, but do you think the Igawa deal can get done just to brighten up a sad day for the Yankees?
2007-08-14 11:06:41
123.   thelarmis
122 buster olney has an article up at espn saying the deal has fizzled.
2007-08-14 11:08:38
124.   ny2ca2dc
Wish I had memories of Scooter, just what I've read; growing up on the west coast, didn't have much exposure to his broadcasting exploits. Have read plenty about him though, especially in Halberstam's book. But I guess now I get some of the Holy Cow & canolli references...

122 Deadline passed 2 hours ago, no? Looks like he's ours still. He has a good arm, maybe something can be salvaged. He's not injured and has options, so he's not hurting the team by being immovable, a la Pavano or RJ or something.

Just watched the Arod presentation clip on, my god, those things are total crap. My first thought was for Arod to donate one to Torre's Safe At Home Foundation, one to Jeter's Turn Two Foundation, and maybe the third one to Po's Foundation, or maybe his own foundation - I'm sure he has one. Auction those puppies off, get them the hell outta there. If we want Arod back, best not piss off the misses by putting those eye sores in her house!

2007-08-14 11:11:05
125.   williamnyy23
It's funny how things tie together...for the longest time, I had a replica of a Leroy Neiman Rizzuto poster (given out at Phil Rizzuto day in August 1994 just before the strike) hanging in various locations. Considering that association, it's pretty weird that Neiman's name would surface on the Banter and then the Scooter would pass.
2007-08-14 11:11:14
126.   thelarmis
what a drag. i woke up with vigor, ready to attack the day, only to turn on the little laptop and find out the Scooter has left us. now i'm all sad and sluggish. i, as many of you, grew up with his voice and will have it ringing in my ear throughout the day, regardless of what music i'm charting, playing, etc. i always felt 'at home' listening to scooter talk and announce Yankees games. it was part of my daily life. i've missed him for years now, but now his family will have to miss him forever and it's quite upsetting.

i'm sure there will be a touching video ceremony at the Stadium tonight. ooh, i wish i could be there. even if it does put a damper on Yankees victory, let's get a victory for Scooter.


2007-08-14 11:13:04
127.   3rd gen yankee fan
re: the "art" this is what I posted on the last thread:

When I saw them I thought, oh cool, some little kid did those. Then they showed the artist watching the ballgame.

2007-08-14 11:14:03
128.   williamnyy23
114 Isn't there a line in Goodfellas where one of the made guys tells Joe Pesci to get his shoe shine box, just like Casey told Phil? Again...everything ties together.
2007-08-14 11:15:58
129.   JL25and3
123 Since Mattpat doesn't seem to be around at the moment, I'll say on his behalf: I'm sure that sometime next year we'll be ever so glad that Cashman held out for "fair value" for Igawa.
2007-08-14 11:21:21
130.   Knuckles
125 I had one of those too- though it wasn't Scooter. Ugly and garish as all get out- can't remember if it was Reggie, or maybe the Stadium, or something else. Drawing a complete blank...
2007-08-14 11:22:24
131.   Bluebleeder87
R.I.P Phil Rizzuto
2007-08-14 11:22:43
132.   Chyll Will
127 I saw that, LOL! I was gonna say something right after that, but didn't think anyone would go back to see it, so I siad something to Sliced about it near the top of this thread. I'm beginning to think that there's a lot of cosmic comic relief in having those, um, things around at a time where many hearts are heavy. Hold tight, people, tonights gonna be one for the ages!

124 I know what you mean in a different way. I was in a similar circumstance regarding my own father, honestly. Still, the retellings here give a good presence to who was, even if you never saw or heard anything he did. Stick around and read some more >;)

2007-08-14 11:24:10
133.   weeping for brunnhilde
128 I know, I know!

I thought the same thing.

Uncanny, no?

2007-08-14 11:25:04
134.   Mattpat11
129 More than we are now?
2007-08-14 11:27:40
135.   JL25and3

"The AROD Family Foundation is a nonprofit organization dedicated to positively impacting families in distress by supporting programs focusing on improved quality of life, education and mental health."

Sounds like a perfectly good cause, despite the "positively impacting" bit.

2007-08-14 11:28:19
136.   williamnyy23
Here's another Scooter story...during the short strike of 1985, Don Mattingly was scheduled to appear at the grand opening of the WIZ. Mattingly was my favorite player growing up, but I was supposed to go to Connecticut with my sister and aunt. I wanted to stay home to see Donnie Baseball, but my mother forced me to go on the trip. Luckily, the strike was settled and Mattingly was forced to cancel. So, who filled in for Mattingly? None other than the Scooter. In fact, it was during the broadcast when Rizzuto mentioned he had to fill in for Mattingly that I learned I made the right decision. Had I opted to stay home, I would have wound up with a Rizzuto autograph, but missed out on my only Yankee/Red Sox game at Fenway (an unexpected surprise thanks to my cousin).
2007-08-14 11:34:12
137.   cult of basebaal
129 now, now ... if you're going to borrow another man's dead horse, best to call it straight ... the correct phrase is "equal value"

you can also feel free to randomly post GONE in reference to this situation, i've been assured on best authority that it purges the bad humours in the blood

2007-08-14 11:43:46
138.   JL25and3
134 Yes, because he's not pitching for the Yankees now.

But not much more.

Sorry, if I misquoted you - "equal value."

2007-08-14 11:44:09
139.   JL25and3
137 How about, "HA!"
2007-08-14 12:03:16
140.   Mattpat11
138 I still think he's like a horror movie monster. He's already come back for no good reason once.
2007-08-14 12:25:17
141.   Mattpat11
137 At the end of the day, three of the worst moves Brian Cashman has ever made, Pavano, Farnsworth and Igawa, are still with this team for no good reason. The only reasoning we've been given is some variation of "we're looking for equal value." Because you can't admit a just give up on arms like that!

In the first two cases, not only did we stubbornly keep these men, but the team made moves (or non moves) to assure that they were kept in very important positions. For some completely asinine reason, Pavano was made a prominent part of the starting rotation, and Farnsworth was not only kept, but one of the buffers was removed.

I would really like him to spell out what he considers equal value for shit.

2007-08-14 12:28:44
142.   David
We don't have enough reliable pitchers for today. We'll be lucky to get 4 decent innings from Karstens. Mo and Joba are unvailable. That leaves only Brower, Farnsworth, Villone and Vizcaino to pitch o the other 5 or so innings. I wonder if one of the starters might be needed to pitch an inning.
2007-08-14 12:30:07
143.   markp
Among his best moments was when White would bring up Eddie Stanky. (Who kicked the ball out of his glove in a WS game I believe.)
2007-08-14 12:30:12
144.   Chyll Will
141 He doesn't need to, we already saw that in a pre-game ceremony last night.
2007-08-14 12:33:35
145.   weeping for brunnhilde
142 No kidding.

Good thing we managed to steal the last two games, huh?

2007-08-14 12:38:36
146.   cult of basebaal
142 which is actually another data point in favor of using mo last night ... with karstens starting and the dregs of the bullpen in between, the likelihood of there being a save situation in favor of the yankees tonite is pretty damn small
2007-08-14 12:47:01
147.   JL25and3
140 Looking for equal value, maybe?
2007-08-14 12:47:09
148.   Mattpat11
142 Mussina's throw day.

So No.

2007-08-14 13:33:29
149.   ny2ca2dc
Well, Karstens will have the Ideal Lineup to back him up today, per Petey:

Cabrera CF
Jeter SS
Abreu RF
Rodriguez 3B
Matsui LF
Posada C
Giambi DH
Cano 2B
Betemit 1B

Daniel Cabrera is due for a lumping up with this monster of a lineup. If you call today's Melky equal to opening-day-Damon-on-paper (for giggles), this is the best lineup of the season (Betemit being way better than Teh Stink). Only way for this to improve is when Joe is comfortable sliding Giambi back into the 5th slot, assuming he's up to it. I smell a possible 12-8 win. Sweet Jesus, and with Damon and Shelly on the bench, plus worthwhile glove men in Molina & Phillips. Sweet Jesus.

2007-08-14 13:36:12
150.   Mike T
Cash has apparently pulled Igawa off waivers. So would he be available to pitch for the big club tonight, or no?
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-08-14 13:37:22
151.   Bama Yankee
All the art talk reminds me of the following story:
"Jackson Pollock was the greatest artist who ever lived. Year after year he produced stunning, brilliant masterpieces, every bit as beautiful as Rembrandt's work.
But he couldn't bear to part with any of them, so he hid them in his basement and sold the public his dropcloths, instead."
2007-08-14 13:38:59
152.   cult of basebaal
i think i would have swapped out matsui and inserted damon in lf ... i have a feeling karstens is going to need all the help he can get from the outfield tonite

we'll see what we get from melky batting leadoff ... i'll be watching to see whether his approach is as different as the results suggest it is.

maybe if i have time this weekend i'll go through the gamelogs and do an analysis of P/PA between the two lineup positions

2007-08-14 13:40:31
153.   Shaun P
150 No, he's in the minors, and not on the 25-man roster.

Seeing that a team can never have enough starting pitching, trying to fix Igawa instead of giving him away isn't a bad thing, IMHO. Besides, he's currently what, 13th or so in the pecking order of available starters (minors and majors)? So its not like we're likely to see him again for a while.

2007-08-14 13:41:01
154.   cult of basebaal
150 SHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! are you trying to make mattpatt's head explode???
2007-08-14 13:43:56
155.   cult of basebaal
153 that's quite enough from you shaun p ... anymore measured, reasoned thinking from you and you're going to get sent straight to your room!

now say you're sorry and start ranting about dead horses like the rest of us ... sheesh

2007-08-14 13:45:50
156.   yankz
Yeah. The posting fee was sunk, and Cash wasn't going to get anything useful out of him right now. As long as he's not blocking anyone in the majors, or even AAA, why not keep him around?
2007-08-14 13:47:01
157.   cult of basebaal
i've gotta thank andy phillips for conveniently going cold just in time to let betemit get a real look at first ... i'm excited about the possibility of him entrenching himself at 1st ... sort of a working-class man's teixeira (being a switch-hitter and having, i'm assuming based on his athleticism and being able to at least fake play the MI decently, a pretty good glove at 1st)
2007-08-14 14:00:44
158.   Chyll Will
155 (Sorry you got in trouble, Shaun. SC does have some side effects after all >;)

152 If his basement was like my apartment, his beautiful works would've turned into dropcloth after all the rain we had up here...

2007-08-14 14:01:33
159.   cult of basebaal
something to look forward to for everyone ... i asked carlos gomez over at BBTF the following joba question:

Hey CBW, i heard that part of the reason for Joba's quick ascent and dominance this year is that the Yankees (specifically Nardi Contreras) made some changes to his mechanics after he signed last year and he went from sitting 92-94 to throwing 96-98 with ease. Have you ever taken a look at his mechanics or done a comparison of him in college vs now?

Your timing is excellent.... I submitted a Hughes vs. Chamberlain article that I finished YESTERDAY at The Hardball Times. I expect it to come out either tomorrow or the day after, depending on the editors' schedules. To answer your question: Yes, they have changed's a sneak peek....

Joba 06 vs. 07

it's interesting to watch the 2 versions side-by-side, i know which set of mechanics carlos prefers and why; gives real hope that Nardi can work similar magic with Andrew Brackman and we'll have another beast up here in a year or two ...

2007-08-14 14:03:18
160.   Raf
125 What's even crazier is that last night ESPN kept showing the Rizzuto Day 1985 ceremonies where the cow knocked him over (linking it to the sculpture that was knocked over during the unveiling).

And now this...

2007-08-14 14:05:16
161.   cult of basebaal
more from carlos (answering the question that provoked me to ask mine):

Thanks, CBW.
You know tons more about this stuff than I do, but I wanted to ask you about your dislike for the 'tall and fall' guys. There are major leaguers with success doing this - isn't it possible that Crosby, or Brackman, or whatever, will too?

Very valid question. Yes, there's examples of "tall and fall" the bigs as well. I prefer the hard-throwing, quick-tempo varieties and believe that those are more likely to keep their stuff as they age. That's my main thing....

I hated Joba Chamberlain last year and I'm generally skeptical of organizations that they diagnose mechanics properly. In Joba's case above, he turned from a "hang over the rubber"-type to a quick-tempo, use your momentum type. And I think that has a significant effect on velocity (on most everybody).

2007-08-14 14:08:16
162.   cult of basebaal
160 yeah, i saw that last night too ... i didn't catch that they said it was from Rizzuto day back in '85 (i hadn't seen the clip before), so i thought it was from last night ... when i heard he had passed away today, my first thought was that the run in with the cow was responsible and felt even worse
2007-08-14 14:12:09
163.   rilkefan
109 - you're talking about a "white elephant". White elephants are or were sacred in Thailand and around there, and couldn't be used as work animals - hence a gift expensive to the receiver.
2007-08-14 14:42:21
164.   weeping for brunnhilde
163 Ah, thanks, rilkefan!

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