Hm, so, with Halladay on the mound and A-Rod sitting out, we might need to manufacture runs.
Uh oh. WHERE'S MIGGY???

Yowza, check out Y. Gallardo's line in his start today against Col: 2.2 IP, 12H, 11ER, 3BB, 1K, 2HR...Welcome to Coors Field kid, enjoy your stay...

By the way, Cliff where did you get the early lineup?

The next 22 games are real tough and will probably decide the season. It all starts today.

1 game vs Halladay at Toronto
3 at Cleveland
3 versus Baltimore (not so tough but still no cakewalk)
4 vs Detroit
3 at LA
4 at Detroit
3 vs Boston

Now that I think about it. Going .500 in the next 22 games will not be enough.

The Yanks can't just tread water since the sox will be playing the likes of Tampa, Chi Sox and Baltimore with one series with LA. Cleveland gets to play a few series with Tampa and KC.

The only team that has a tougher schedule for this month is Detroit: oakland, at Cleveland, at NY, cleveland, Yankees and finally at KC. Zoiks!

4 Let's hope Detroit's pitching and offense woes continue for another couple of weeks.

1 Poor weeping. I wonder how's he reacting to the loss of Miggy?

Hm, that's 21 games.
I agree that .500 (or even 11-10) isn't satisfactory. I'd take 12-9, if we can go 5-3 against Detroit. That plus their tough schedule should put us in front with a relatively easy September to come. (I just can't get worried about Seattle!)

5 7 I'd take 22-0 myself. ;)

In all seriousness - say the Yanks keep up their post-ASG .740 pace. Maybe not likely, maybe not even possible, but it could happen. Who thought they'd ever close the gap to 5 games in the division?

That .740 pace is 16-6 over the next 22 - or, not surprising, losing just 1 game/series (and winning tonight). Sound good to me!

Off topic - seems like Wells's days in SD are over: http://tinyurl.com/2llpbm

2 I was listening to some of that game on XM. Gallardo pitched well against the Rockies in Milwaukee a week ago, but apparently twice is once too often where that well is concerned.

And just so we know it's not just our manager, how's this for in-game tactics: Gallardo gave up 7 runs in the bottom of the second (plus one in the first), and Yost let him bat in the top of the third.

5 No, I don't think .500 is anywhere near enough (but then, that's because I still insist on thinking Red Sox, not wild card).

9 That was a month ago, not a week.

We are all thrilled at how great the Yankees have been playing....My biggest concern is that the Yankees' remaining schedule is the toughest of the contending teams: 31 games of 49 vs. teams with a .500 record or better, and only 23 of 49 games are at home. (The Yankees have 9 games left vs. the Orioles, who have given the Yankees problems this year, 8 games each vs. the Tigers and Blue Jays, and 6 each vs. the BoSox and Tampa Bay). The BoSox play only 21 (10 less) games of 49 vs. >.500 teams. The Tigers have the most home games remaining (29), while Cleveland has the fewest (21). Wild card may require more than 92 wins (the average over the years has been 95), so the Yankees need to continue their winning ways.....hopefully better than .600.....very little margin for slumps, injuries, bad breaks, etc. Hope everyone stays hot and the youngters perform up to potential.

Trivia question for the night, regarding #715. Everyone knows Aaron off Al Downing - both #44 - and Tom House catching it in the Braves bullpen. But one of my vivid memories is of the young Dodger left fielder trying his damnedest, leaping and climbing up the cyclone fence, refusing to just let it go out in peace. His name was...

No fair checking Retrosheet, that's too easy. He's not an obscure player - everyone here knows who he is. Answer in the bottom of the fourth, or sooner.

#13 - Bill Bruckner was the LF for #715

#13/#14 - That's Buckner.....regret my typo.

I keep seeing all these articles talking about how Joba is obviously the heir apparent to Mo, even though hes been trained as a starter.

I don't get the obsessive love for closers in the media and belief that they are somehow so incredibly valuable. Sure, Mo is incredibly valuable, but an ace starter is STILL more valuable than your average to above average closer any day. Joba giving the Yanks 200+ innings of dominant starting is far better than 60 innings of relief work, no?

16 I wouldn't rule out Joba as a closer. Mo came up as a starter. We'll have to see of course. A closer affects more games than a starter, but a starter impacts more innings. Both are critical and I wouldn't say one is more valuable than the other.

17 Actually, a better way to describe a starters impact would be to say they pitch in less games but have more control over the outcome of those games overall. At the same time, since you bring closers in in save situations, the closer has a lot, but not as much, impact on the games they are in. And they definitely impact more games.

17 Affects more games than a starter? How so? To me, I go with the theory that the difference between the good and merely average closers tends to be quite small and that many many relievers can be closers, even if they are not amazing pitchers. On the other hand, finding a really really good starting pitcher is much much harder...

I definitely agree with Zack, a top-of-the-order starter is more valuable than the best closer, particularly since closers are used so inefficiently. If Joba only had those two pitches he showed last night, then maybe he'd be best used as a closer. If he looks like he'll be no better than a 4 starter, then fine. But if he looks like he can be a 1 or 2 starter, then it would be a waste to make him a closer.

14,15 Well, that didn't last long.

20 Especially because he will be a CHEAP #1-2.

Add me to the ace starter being much move valuable than an ace reliever side. Add to that the high number of closer candidates we currently have in the minors, and moving Joba there seems to be wasting resources.

19 Closers are bought into close games and pitch in more games than starters. Their ability to succeed in close game situations is important.

I don't see the differences being that big. With the runscoring offense on the Yankees, even 5+ ERA starters have produced 10+ win seasons. But we haven't seen many 20 game winners.

In essence, the differential in terms of success is pretty balanced in my opinion. Now, what I feel really matters in looking at a guy like Joba is need. If we have a closer, that is one thing. If we have an ace, but need a closer, or vice versa, I think that should be informative in making these decisions.

But mostly, I think it should be based on what players are best at. I have no idea what Joba is best at.

18 If you buy BP's VORP stat, then it's a good stand in for what you're calling "impact". In the top 60 VORP leaders for pitchers in MLB right now, 11 are relievers, none are named Rivera or Papelbon, and the top reliever is 29th in the league in VORP.

If you don't buy VORP as a stand-in for impact, you'll be harder to convince.

23 What about Ohlie or Ramirez as future closers? Both have been pitching very well in relief. Ohlie has the potential to be a ground ball machine, and Ramirez is a strikeout G-d so far.

but that is just my opinion, and y'all need not share it...

I for one will be happy when we leave Toronto. It wasn't enough to plunk two guys in NY. It wasn't enough to throw behind Arod. It wasn't enough to plunk him in the knee. John Gibbons fingerprint is all over this, and it needs to end.

I did think Roger did the right thing last night. It's about time someone took the nipple out of the Yankee pitching staff's mouth and finally stood tall for our guys. The greatest part was watching him arguing. I had it on DVR and watched it several times. It was clear that before leaving the mound, he turned to Hernandez and said "I did mean it, I did mean it." he also made clear that he wasn't going to just sit by even though the precipitating events occured before he joined the team. The game will miss Roger when he's gone. He stood up for what baseball has always been, and will not simply lie down and take the new rules implimented by MLB, which favor the team which intentionally hits a batter, and punishes those who only want to retaliate and end it.

24 But imagine having two aces instead of one? If you have a rotation that is fronted by Hughes, Wang and Chamberlain, how many close games will you have anyways?

27 I do agree that pitchers are suited for various jobs, and some make better relievers than starters, obviously.

25 So does that suggest that starters are more valuable, and even non-savers? But does VORP account for differences in IP etc?

25 I don't know enough about VORP. I'd have lots of questions about that since there are 5x as many starters as closers, and how relievers roles are measured, before determining what to make of it. And then I'm sure to disagree with someone... :)

30 Yes, and the relievers are a mix of savers (e.g., JJ Putz) and non-savers (e.g, Okajima). It does take into account IP. It makes sense to value a pitcher that pitches more innings, because they have more influence over a game. By the time a closer comes in, the game is largely decided.

I'm sure there is a more eloquent way to describe the value of pitching more innings.

30 I'm not sure VORP is the right stat here. What it tells you is the value of a certain player over a replacement at that position. It can tell you that Jeter is a much better shortstop than some AAA guy, but it won't necessarily tell you if a great shortstop is more valuable than a great second basemen. In this context, it might tell you that so called "ace" relievers aren't really that far above their replacement level as compared to starters, which is (no pun intended) a start on the analysis. But what you really want to do, is look at say RSAA of a set of elite closers, and compare that to a set of aces over a full season.

You could take (totally random):
Mo
Papelbon
Hoffman

and compare to:
Santana
Wang
etc.

and see what you get.

33 Hmmmm...thinking about what I just said, that's not going to work. Clearly a good starter will have a higher RSAA because they pitch so many more innings. What we need is something that accounts for leverage situations. As in, 1 run lead in the ninth is a much higher leverage situation than tied or up a few runs in the 3rd. Maybe WRXL? I'm not sure. Its a really good and interesting question.

So, I've been keeping tracking of our quest for 1,000 runs for the heck of it. I don't think we'll get there since we'll face better pitching from here on out. But just fyi, we have averaged 5.96 runs per game and need to average 6.65 for the rest of the season to get there. We are on pace to score 966 runs.

(And the new mac spreadsheet is pretty cool but I think it will take a while to get used to where certain functions are. Been using excel for soooooooo long!)

34 But the notion of higher leverage is going to always favor a closer of course, under the whole "clutch" notion, which I think is all hooey anyways. But its arbitrary in the end, no? I mean, is the 4th inning tied at 0 high leverage? It still means that a run scored could decide the game, but favoring the 9th inning is just like the whole 9th inning home run is more clutch than a 1st inning one debate...

I want this game really bad.

36 Again, IP becomes an issue, but this time on a smaller scale. Let's assume that the 9th inning is higher leverage than the 3rd (though, as you point out, that could be argued as well.) But I think the appropriate comparison is whether the 9th inning alone is higher leverage than innings 1-6 (or more) combined?

36 Well, I think that a 1 run game in the 9th inning has a higher certainty of being high leverage than a 1 run game in the 4th inning. So, one may or may not be higher leverage because you do not know the outcome of the innings past the fourth inning, which are impacted by what happens in the fourth inning. So, the certainty of it being a high leverage situation is better known.

36

I agree. What about a pitcher starting a game of the series after the team dumped the first two, when a loss would push you further back in the playoff hunt? A closer isn't in any higher leverage position than any starter whose job is to get the team into a position to win based on percieved skill. It is the closer's job to get three outs before the opposition ties or wins the game, while the starter is expected to give up as few runs as possible to allow the team to score and win the game.

36 But we're not questioning whether or not someone is "clutch", we're asking how much effect does a closer have versus a starter. Lets say you only use your closer in 1 and 2 run games, and only in the ninth inning (which is stupid, but for the sake of argument). Lets assume this happens roughly 40 times a season (making that up) and that said closer, being "elite" succeeds 39 out of 40 times, whereas an average one succeeds 30 out of 40. Now compare that to the chances of winning a game if your starter gives up on average 2 runs in 7 innings or something close to what an "elite" starter does and the number of starts he makes a year. Which is more valuable?

My gut of course is the starter. But I dunno if my BFOG is right or not.

38 Yes, that is precisely the point. Is one inning of more value than a lot of innings based on their relative leverage values?

40 I have no idea what you are saying. A pitcher can only control the game he is in, not whether or not the team has lost or won a few before he comes in. That's sort of the pitching equivalent of using RBIs, as in: What if Alex comes up and hits a HR with no one on base, when later on in the game he strikes out with 2 on. He failed to do his job.

40 Also, what are you getting at? The original question is you have one pitcher, who has the skill set to be either an elite closer, or an ace starter. If you want to maximize the number of games your team wins, which do you let him be?

38

The answer to that would be no. The vast majority of games are decided in the first seven innings. Starters will always be more valuable than relievers. The idea that the team performs better when they know the lights out closer will finish the game for them flies on the face of what many here believe, that hitters will try to get a hit every AB in the same way, no matter the situation. The game has changed for the worse, putting mediocre pitchers in positions where their performance will affect the outcome of games to too large a degree.

42 More specifically, is one inning in more games of more or less value than more innings in less games. right?

Oh, and speaking of aces, Ian Kennedy is dealing so far tonight. 4 IP, 3 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 5 Ks.

45 Yes, if all those innings are say in close games in the 9th inning say.

Watching ESPN today, I couldn't help but see the HR several dozen times, along with Barry's tribute to his father.

After watching Barry use his children and godfather to try and gain sympathy, and read about how he treats everyone else in his life, and I really supposed to believe that Barry Lamar Bonds gives a flying fuck about anyone not named Barry Lamar Bonds?

41 I know we're not arguing about clutchness, but when we start talking about high-leverage, it smacks of the same argument to me, which as already discussed, inherently favors the closer for better or for worse.

Shouldn't the difference between a true ace starter and an average starter be far greater than between an elite closer and an average one?

43 When you phrase it that way (better than I did initially, I might add) I lean even more towards starter.

Oh, and by the by, Boomer Wells was released by the Pads today and might (finally) retire..

43

Gotcha. Well, I always believe in conquering one hill at a time. The closer has no value if the starter cannot effectively keep the game in reach to get to the closer. A starter can affect the outcome of more than 30 games a year, whether by pitching lights out, or keeping the game close. The closer would only effect a small number of games, perhaps those led by one run in the ninth, but even then, just about any mediocre pitcher will convert eighty to ninety percent of those save chances, when the game has already been decided. How often do teams come back and win in the ninth inning when trailing by three runs? Not very often, no matter who is pitching. Even when leading by one run, I would think the perentage of games won would be pretty darn high, regardless of who is pitching.

For example. if Papelbon was able to pitch as effectively or damn near as a starter, I would bet the Red Sox lead would be 10 or 12 games right now, with Okajima or even Timlin as the closer.

49 I agree, and that is likely what VORP will tell you. But then there's win shares, or whatnot. I basically agree with you, that I think the starter is more valuable, I'm just wondering how to quantify it.

If they can steal this one tonight, it will be a huge win in my book. Come on WANGER!!!

48 I still haven't seen it. I assume it looks a lot like a home run. I prefer to hang on to the image of Buckner trying to claw his way up that cyclone fence.

52 Ditto, I agree with your thinking and see 53. I am just wondering if we can show it, in a quantifiable way, since many other nuggets of convential wisdom (always bunt the runner over) we know to be wrong under close scrutiny.

Hey, the Po'Sox have a guy named Bobby Scales. Any relation to Mickey?

48

Did you notice how he basically ignored his son at the plate? He grabbed him slightly and then pointed to the sky, never actually hugging him. I don't know any father worth a damn that would have done that, and reacted that way to his son. I actually don't care one way or the other. The HR record is utterly meaningless so long as PED's are around, the mound is lowered and fences are so close you can spit on them. Wasn't the HR record 128 when Ruth broke it on his way to 714? Now that my friends is a record. I actually find Barry's 500 SB's, 3000 (soon to be) Hits, and 2000 RBI a lot more impressive than the HR's.

53 I remember River ave. blues, I think, charting the probability of each teaming winning based on specific events and then giving values to how each player contributed to the win. That might be a good way to do it...

that is, each team winning based on specific events within the game, such as a hit, a strikeout etc

56

You know what? I think that if there was a way to show it, teams wouldn't be putting so many games in the balance behind mediocre to bad relievers, while paying starters gazillions of dollars to pitch six innings. By protecting their investment with a meaningless pitch count, they self fulfill not retrieving the most of that investment, giving far too much power in deciding the outcome to guys making league minimum. It is like buying a great car and driving twice a week, when you could be driving it every day. Looking around both leagues the past five years, there is not one piece of eccicacious scientific evidence to show that pitch counts are preventing injury. All this while overusing relievers, and sometimes causing serious long-term injury that science can actually quantify in many cases, where muscles and connective tissue are actually damaged when repeadedly not given forty-eight to seventy-two hours to rebuild and heal.

61 Um, as far as I know there is. Take a look at some of Bill Carroll's writing, others have commented on studies, but I'm too rushed right now to look them up. I mean, remember when David Cone threw 160 something pitches and the next year had an aneurysm? or Schilling threw 140 or so last year and was ineffective for about a month or so after that.

60 I may have been thinking of wpa, which seems to only be for batters...oh well

62

I've read them. Although at first glance they seem to explain some injuries, they do not. The issue is both one of an individual nature and one of conditioning and excercise. The issue is rarely the number of pitches thrown, but rather the rest period between the stress on the muscles and tissue, the excercise that follows, and the time between starts. While every pitcher is different, an arbitrary process is applied, and that is more responsible than any number or pitches. An individual program should be developed for every pitcher, using both medicine and physical therapy to determine each pitchers "breaking point." They should be studies closely to determine a maximum velocity, arm angle etc. Using the system in place makes little or no sense and amounts to a wait and see approach, rather than a proactive one, and most every team is getting less than it could from its investment. Clearly certain pitchers break down sooner than others. This is the only way to help ensure that you are able to minimize damage to certain pitchers, while getting the most out of pitchers for whom a 100 pitch count is far too low. Roger Clemens is a perfect example. He understands his body, while most pitchers have no clue. He knows how hard to push it, while many pitchers would rather throw as hard as they possibly can for as long as they can. Just as batters need to keep within themselves, pitchers must as well. The Cone injury was more due to his overthrowing for too long a period than it was the number of pitches. He could have thrown 160 pitches with no injury had he had a real understanding of how hard he should be throwing, and from what angle those pitches should be thrown given his physiology.

Well, I'd say this game looks to be over early

This annoys me. Have I mentioned how badly I want to embarrass this team?

Well I kinda knew we were gonna have it tough today

Awesome stuff for Kennedy in AAA against the PawSox. In the 6th, he gives up two singles, has runners on 1st and 3rd with no outs, and then strikes out the side. His line: 6 IP, 5H, 0R, 1BB, 9K 8-0 GB/FB...Niiice

Well, three of Wang's last four starts have been shaky. The line might not show it, but they were most certainly shaky.

69 It seems like his command hasn´t been there lately

Halladay sharp today, not good

Robbie!!!

Nice one Rob.

71 Cano is sharper!

Good job Robbie, dont let him get away with mistakes..

This inning will tell the tale for Wang.

I really do think they have to discard the china approach with Giambi and get him out there at 1B. They have to keep Damon and his walks and legs at the top of the order. I know its been beaten to death, but Giambi is so much better at the plate when he plays defense.

77 I wouldn't put Giambi on 1B with Wang pitching.

WOW! Zaun is channeling Jorge Posada!

So what is Vendelay Industries?

78

Oh, not necessarily today. Bt it needs to be done. Damon is having a bad year, but without him, we have no speed to distract pitchers, and Giambi will make up for the offense if he's at 1B.

80 They're in latex. He's a latex salesman.

81 Hard to disagree..

From now on Melky should have to do 50 pushups for every time he swings at the first pitch.

80

It's from Seinfeld. George uses this name for several schemes and lies. His full name is Arthur Vandelay.

82 I totally didn't register that until now!

85 Yeah, after 82 said that, it hit me..duh...

80 Funnily, it's also the name of the judge in the final episode.

Okay, I have now met my twice-monthly Banter comment allowance.

Ok.....I'm out. Have to tape the game out here on the west coast so I can go to dinner. Go Yankees! Go Tampa! Go Chicago!

Keep the faith. Boston is showing its vulnerability to teams which keep pressure on, and start it early.

I'm listening on the radio. Is Kay fellating Lyle Overbay yet?

Can't say I'm happy Stairs is killing us.

90

He's in a three way sandwich with Overbay and "One of the best players in MLB," Vernon "Mr. .250" Wells. But he already quoted McCain's campiagn manager from Florida. He only gave fellated Overbay because he was afraid of the black man.

ok. I will accept this loss if we continue to win 6 out of 7.

92I can deal with the Wells love. I just don't understand the Overbay love. I don't see it at all.

crappy game..

The worst part of this game is the Blue Jays will decide they're good again and I'll have to see that smug fuck Ricciardi smirking in the skybox

92 And the grounds crew, don't forget Kay got the grounds crew too...

The aformentioned Lyle Overbay?

93 Nah, I can accept a 3-2 loss. Wang is getting hammered, which is a bit disconcerting.

How does Wang look? Does he just have nothing today? Thanks in advance.

99

You had to see it coming though. He has had no command for over a month.

101 Yes, which makes you wonder if he's hurt?

God damnit.

97 Whyyyy, Michael Kay?

101 I wonder if it's that fingernail that's bothering him..

Steve-O/Scary Flyball Guy in for Wang

Ok, seriously, who is this guy and what did he do with Wang?

106 I'm not going to say we lost it already but it's pretty close that, might as well let him and Brower pitch..

How did Hill ground out to short and they only got the out at first with Glaus and Thomas running?

We might have to get Joba into the rotation after all.

107

He's had nothing for quite a while now. They better figure it out.

Where the hell was the pitch?

(Joba!)

Ok.......time for dinner. Come on.....we can get back in this and really bury these guys!

Someone explained to me earlier why I hate the Blue Jays.

They're an organization that has accomplished jackshit, with players that have done jackshit, a manager that has done jackshit, and a general manager who's reign, if you were generous, you could call a massive failure.

Yet they carry themselves like they're the Casey Stengel Yankees. From Ricciardi to Gibbons to Overbay and Reed Johnson and John effing McDonald, you'd never realize they have been a total non entity for over a decade.

108 I've no problem with the move, just stating for those who are unable to follow the game for whatever reason. Gameda's nice, but can be a pos sometimes

116 oh I see, my bad.. we can even allow Farnsworth to pitch today!!

One here, a few there... it can be done. Deep ABs, boys. Deep ABs...

I leave to get dinner, and this shit happens? What the hell is going on today?

Oh what a bad call. I've never seen Bobby that hot. The mic was on, too..

Bobby gone 4 arguing balls & strikes

Umpire thinks he's part of the show.

119 Next time order in, bro. Wang brought his 'D' game tonight...

That was BS. Bobby was at the bat rack when he was tossed.

122 They just don't get it. Maybe a minimum age requirement for the bigs should be 50. When they have a little maturity....

122 This umpire crew has been really bad over this series..

I kinda hope the whole lineup gets themselves thrown out the same way. That would be a neat way to protest bad calls when the game is pretty much over, or on a day when everyone's only thinking of the off-day... or so it seems...

C'mon Jason. Half the lead...

Wang on the road, 2007: 58.2 IP, 68 H, 29 ER, 2 HR, 15 BB, 22 K, 4.45 ERA, .300 BAA

Wang at home, 2007: 78.0 IP, 67 H, 24 ER, 4 HR, 19 BB, 42 K, 2.77 ERA, .234 BAA

And (small sample size) Wang on turf, 2007: 12.1 IP, 16 H, 7 ER, 0 HR, 0 BB, 9 K, 5.11 ERA, .308 BAA (2 games at Tropicana Field) - add in tonight's numbers and it gets much, much worse.

He relies on his defense as much as any other Yankee. Maybe the team doesn't field so well on turf?

124 Cousins is going to be 61

125 Daryl Cousins is behind home plate. I am not surprised by his behavior at all.

Well I guess Abreu could use some extra time to rest..

129 Not if he keeps that act up ;-)

129 What, months?

130 This is a crew that has Cousins and Angel Hernandez.

Think about that.

134 In other words, it's unbelievable the team got three off the Jays under the circumstances?

134 I have a few choice words in mind for those gentlemen that I'd rather not type on a "family" blog. Useless is the one word I feel OK typing.

big hurt with big power... broken bat, still went to the track. methinks damon would've had that

I didn't want to say this weeks ago because I'm "negative" but why the hell were people so excited about the return of Jeff Karstens?

OT, should I smack someone who demands an explanation for the Wendy's Baconator commercial with the cut-out men's faces over screaming womens' bodies?

Scary fly ball guy.

139 go for it...

138 This is not the park for Scary Fly Ball to pitch in. Too small.

Good news: Detroit is losing.

Bad news: Cleveland is winning.

111 Care to use some numbers to show me that Wang, "has had nothing for quite a while now?"

115 Mattpat111, did you read Goldman's Pinstriped Bible today? He tore into the Blue Jays pretty good. You'd like it - http://tinyurl.com/2pqjo6

Anyone else dying to see Farnsworth pitch the 7th? Unless, you know, the Yanks score 7 runs in the top of the 7th and tie it up.

In the month of June, Wang had a 2:1 K to BB ratio. In July it was 1.6. That doesn't tell me that he has had no command for over a month.

145 No thanks, I'd much rather watch the screen go pitch black. At least there's something to look forward to after that...

147 You mean, after the guy walks out of th

146 Aw man, he's just waxing hyperbolic, s'all. Better than gouging your eyes out, or... self immolation? >;)

148 Yeah, just like th

149 Sorry, this season has made me hypersensitive to "the sky is falling" cries.

138 That would be the Kei Igawa factor, anything looks good after that guy.

Yikes. And here I was expecting a pitchers' duel.

Why is Duncan in for Abreu? Just wanted a bigger bat, or is Abreu injured?

What happened to Duncan? Gameday skipped right over his AB. It was like the screen faded t

Our guys look exceptionally awful tonight.

153 Daryl "Look at me, I'm an umpire" decided to become the night's entertainment by throwing Abreu out, while Abreu stood at the bat rack after Cousins called him out on strikes.

154 Struck out swinging.

Abreu got shown the door for arguing.

155 At least it's against a good pitcher, not Edwin Jackson or something.

156 Abreu was ejected? Why? Was he arguing the call?

160 I believe he was complaining about the strike zone, though I'm not sure if he did it while at home plate. Thanks for 157!

Thanks, all. Wow, I never thought of Abreu as the hotheaded type. And it's not even Joe West...

I don't like anything I've seen from Karstens.

151 Having to endure "So You Think You Can Dance?" because your roommate, who demands explanations for the obvious and insists on doing sideline commentary along the way, insists on watching it would kind of take the edge off, but I wouldn't recommend it...

163 Especially this bases loaded, no one out.

A four pitch walk to a guy batting .251. Awesome.

164 My fiance watches it religiously. It's totally goofy.

Just kidding honey :) !!

Bad night for the wanger, and this game is probably a loss. But the Yanks still take the series, have tomorrow off before the Land of Burning Rivers, and Detroit and Cleveland are both (at the moment) losing.

I'll take it. You can't win them all. I just hope Wang is okay. Maybe an issue with his fingernail...

Eh. Its only one game.

Clemens is on MythBusters right now. Well, not right NOW, his segment is on later in the show, but it's their "baseball special".

(I also apologize if this has been mentioned before. I did a quick scan of the comments and didn't see it.)

170 I used to have to watch Mythbusters because my freshman roommate decided that he owned my TV. He would then flip out if I started talking to someone else because he's "doing his work"

EDSP doing well with his new team tonight. He's impressing the heathens.

And 'Zilla starts the Yankeeography comeback!

At least he's still hitting

Here come the Yankees.

Man oh man, pitching matchup? Yeeeeuuuk...

We want Farnsworth! (clap-clap-clap-clap-clap)

In fact, let's see him get two innings tonight.

TB with the bases loaded in the 8th, 2 out, Pena up . . . he singles, two runs score, 7-1!

Cleveland down one to the White Sox going into the 6th.

172 He got to pitch two innings again! EDSP must be so happy.

Hey, when did Damon take over at first?!

This isn't ugly, its fugly. Anyone here with me?

Hmmm. Jays 15. Cano 3. Zilla 1. I got a bad feelin' about this one...

Let's go Rays, ChiSox and HALOS!!!!

180 I'll admit, the Law & Order reruns seemed more interesting tonight.

180 I'm going down with the ship tonight, too...

EDSP pitched two innings, and gave up only one hit. A single to Ken Griffey, Jr. 17 pitches, 11 for strikes.

The Trolleydodgers are pretty happy with the trade right now.

182 183 I'm trying to decide who's pitched worse, Karstens or Villone. I think the answer is Villone.

184 I'm pretty happy with the deal, too. I like Wilson Betemit just fine, thanks, especially since he's why they DFA'ed "Joel" Cairo.

184 I was glad to see him with a contender. Too bad most Dodgers fan will never get to see him work...

185 Strange that no Yankee hurler looked anything close to sharp tonight.

If we don't see Farns here, he's officially on the milk carton...

185 Are you sure the correct answer isn't Wang?

The big difference between Villone and Karstens is that Villone isn't being sent down tomorrow.

186 The best kind of trade: both sides think they got the better end of the deal. ;-)

Of course, it's still real early. I thought we got the better end of the deal with the Pirates last year, but Chacon is still on their roster, while Craig Wilson didn't help us much and is no longer in the big leagues.

(He had season-ending shoulder surgery. It was a chronic problem, so the bad shoulder might be why his hitting fell off so steeply.)

This is a game where I want to see Farnsworth give up six runs.

We want Farnsworth! (clap-clap-clap-clap-clap)

WOO!

176 Didn't Cliff say that same thing earlier in the year, and the same thing happened as happened tonight? (Sorry Cliff.)

191 I was thinking 10...

I still hate Farnsworth.

Good news: TB still up 7-1, two on in the 9th, only 1 out.

Bad news: Cleveland now leading the White Sox, 3-2.

Karsten's stats for this season: 10.2 IP, 19 H, 13 ER, 5 BB, 4 K, 2 HR. ERA 10.97, WHIP 2.25, BAA .380

Five walks seems low.

Nothing's going right.

194 He looked funny milling around during last night's bench clearings. No cap, razored haircut, reading glasses. I was waiting for someone to sucker punch him. Preferrably Torre...

196 Drop him and pick up Boomer for long relief. Can't be worse numbers than that...

198 Heh-heh...

Now night arrives with her purple legion
Retire in Tribetown, Pinstripers, to your tents and to your dreams
Friday the gauntlet begins
I want the Bronx Bombers to be ready

202 TAKE NO PRISONERS

143

It has nothing to do with numbers. He settled down later in the game during his last start, but one could see a game like this coming from his previous three starts. He had little control. I am just saying that what happened today didn't surprise me at all. I am not down on Wang, its just that he hasn't had control or presence out there for a while now.

Bad, bad night for you, Mattpat. Blue Jays roll over Yanks, and Farnsworth has a 1-2-3 inning. All you need now is a report of a Pavano comeback...

You can put in on the board, YES!

Tied at 3!

206 That's one game I can't hear 'He gone' enough! Let's go Good Guys!!!

207

And its bases juiced and one out in Anaheim. Sox down 2-0.

So much for the feel good story of Lester.

207 Ah, I love it. I've noticed that you and I share a special disdain for Good Guy Hawk. Bravo, brother!

209 Oh yeah, Hawk is pure evil, bro. But tonight the 'enemy of my enemy is my friend' applies big time...

208 3-zip now, but should have been worse for the Sawx. They're slappin' Lester around pretty good, though. I'm encouraged...

209 "Stay fair. Stay fair. Stay fair. Dad-gummit!" Hawk at his best just now...

210 I love when a call doesn't go the Sox ways. "This is just ridiculous. That's just a ridiculous call, no other way to say it."

I also love that he's a part of the team. "We're looking to score a few runs here."

Last time I had to listen to his drivel, I was nearly convinced that Jermaine Dye was a short hot streak away from passing A-rod as the best hitter in the game.

Well, Lester got out of that innig with only 2 runs in, but he's at 50 pitches thru 2.

Too bad the Sawx have an off day tomorrow, last night's game. combined with a potentially short outing by Lester tonight, could really weaken some arms in their pen going into the weekend -- tho they are only playing Bal-more.

Other good news for us is that the Sawx threw a "C" lineup out there -- Lugo leading off, outfield of Whiffy-Mo, Nancy, and the rookie Moss.

Let's go Halos.

The normally sure-handed Uribe throws it into the dugout. Lofton at second with two outs.

To improve the effects of tonight's slaughter, here are the Ramones playing "Commando" with Johnny wearing a Yankees T from 1978:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rD1dqGU4PYA

If I had the ability to take major league at bats, I would approach the batter's box to this song.

212

Dude. It would take a locomotive to weaken the arms in that bullpen.

Aye, lads. MacDougal gets 'er done. Bottom 10 in the Windy City...

I smell a walk off!

214 Love it. Great song, too...

217 ..with Erstad or Podsednik getting the big hit!!!!

217 , 219 I'll take a bags loaded walk walk off...

WTF? Just flipped back to Halos-Sawx. 3-3!

221 4-3 sox now..

AND Konerko grounds into a double play...

222 The crime report:

- D. Pedroia singled to center
- K. Youkilis singled to left, D. Pedroia to second
- M. Ramirez doubled to deep center, K. Youkilis and D. Pedroia scored
- J.D. Drew doubled to deep left center, M. Ramirez scored
- M. Lowell doubled to deep left center, J.D. Drew scored

224 Who's pitching for the halos?

225 Dustin Moseley. Here's his stats:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7507

On to the bottom of the 11th...

Figgins delivers! Double to right, plates 2. 5-4 Halos. Lester to the showers...

Pale Hose : winning run on second. 2 out. Uribe up...

Uribe grounds out

Top of the 12th, Jose Contreras to pitch..

Uribe soft grounder to 2nd. On to the 12th...

{Holdin' down the corner for East Coast nightowls and Left Coasters...}

man, Contreras sucks

232 I'm up, and very appreciative. You're a bigger man than I am, to sit through The Good Guy at this hour.

Indians score...on an Uribe error

234 Thanks, but I'm actually in San Fran, so it's still a reasonable hour out here. Damn! Tribe just goes up 4-3 on a bloop. ChiSox last licks...

Game! Tribe loses!!!!

HR for AJ Pierzinsqotx! Tie game!!!

shit! my bad. I didnt see them go ahead,ooooops. tied game.

shit! my bad. I didnt see them go ahead,ooooops. tied game.

Yes! Single. Winning run on first, no outs!

Shit happens when you have Joe Borowski as your close..

(Owens singles)

Owens steals second, setting up the stage for an Erstad walk off hit!

Stolen base for Owens. Kernerko gets an IBB. First and second, one out. Dye coming up...

But seriously. What the hell? Shouldn't Cleveland be tanking the season by now?

Dayum. Dye whiffs on ball four. Slider off the left side of the plate... Erstad up...

Talk about GOB. Erstad is the dust of Darren.

245 Anyone should be tanking with Borowski as their closer.. I don't get it either

248 Wait...they have Gammons' flavor of the month, Grady Sizemore. He's the next Bobby Crosby you know!

They really should ban those maple bats.

248 Maybe that solves the discussion earlier. Clearly closers not as valuable as starters.

This game is starting to favor the Indians.

Lineout to second. Dad-gummit! This is a helluva game, though. Let's go, Hose!

I predict a walk-off HR for Podsednik on the bottom of the 13th!!!

Bad to the real bad news: 6-5 Boston, but Halos have Vlad on second, no out, bottom 5....

The Indians' radio announcers just said that Hafner was taken out of the game tonight with a "tweaked" knee. Bodes well for the Yankees?

255 Now if only Sizemore would hurt his hamstring

255 "Kneecapped" would sound better. (No, no, just kidding...) There's nothing better than beating teams at full strength, I hate to hear when key guys get hurt, no matter their uni...

6-6 in Disneyland...

White sox win!!

Homer by Uribe..

Uribe walk off!!!!! Good Guys win!

257 Other teams didn't seem to mind beating us when we had all our injuries...

262 I'm talking about fans. I don't think any pro would wish for another to go down... As a fan, I don't want us to overtake Boston because Beckett, Schilling, and Ortiz are on the DL. I want them (and us) at full strength, play head to head, and let the cards fall where they may. I can live with the outcome...

I'm fairly certain that Arod wouldn't mind Stairs or Towers going down with a season ender.

So, Bob "Lap Dog" Watson says a suspension will be automatic for Clemens. Anyone have a guess as to how many games?

265 5 games as per Pete Abe's guess. If there is justice, Towers will get 7. Don't hold your breath.

7-6 Sawx. Perdroia goes deep...

265 5 games usually, so he misses 1 start.

Effin Angels and their effin manager. Bottom 6, 9 hitter singles. Sciosa then has their leadoff hitter, 2 for 2 in the game, hitting .300, with a .400 obp, sac bunt. Figgins proceeds to popup, and Cabrera strikes out.

And of course the midget 2ndbaseman then comes up for Boston and homers.

264 Nah. You wanna see those guys f*ck up, not get hurt.

Wow! Nice catch by Willits! I thought that was Pesky Pole for a second...

267

Ridiculous. Three attempts to hit Arod, and Clemens gets suspended. I know the rule is black and white, but all it has accomplished is to force players to develop more craetive ways to even the score. Way to go Bud! Steroids, ridiculous rules, almost nothing to do with getting new stadiums built, the Devil Rays and Marlins, a tied All-Star Game, an All-Star game for home field in the WS. What a bang up job he's done. Why did Vincent retire again?

Holy COW! Willits made a great play. I suppose its Gagne and Papelbon, and game over then.

270 "I suppose its Gagne and Papelbon, and game over then."

SportsCenter is always looking for copy writers. Don't give it away here for free.

268

I'm sorry dude, but the knee!!! Not only does Towers not have the control to be doing that, he did it for his own selfish reason in trying to stay up with the club now that Burnett is off the DL. It should have been finished when they threw at him in NY. It should have been over when they threw behind him last night. Towers could have taken Arod out for the season. I hope he spends the next 10 years playing in some podunk town somewhere in Canada. Oh, and if he has a dog, I hope its dead when he gets home tonight. I hope his wife screws his best friend and puts the tape on xtube for all to see. I'm sorry, but what he did is inexusable, especially for a young kid with no control over his pitches. You don't put a man's job and mobility at risk so you can play another day. Stairs is just an ass, and that I can deal with. I don't wish any ill will upon him.

I don't think Tito lets Gagne anywhere near this game, unless the Sawx blow it open. He's still behind Okajima in the pecking order no doubt.

Looks to me like Tito rides Okajima as far as he can into the 8th, and then bring in Paps for 4,5,6 outs, whatever it takes. This is a big game for the Sawx to steal.

Thanks Sciosa, for the sac bunt and for bringin your starter out again even tho he'd given up a 4 spot the previous inning.

271

Wait! SportsCenter has writers? Can you back that up?

273

I have to say, with the level of talent that the Angels have, and the success they have had, it is hard to argue with the moves that Mike Scioscia makes.

Just as I say that the Angels throw the ball all over the infield.

274 Yes. You're soaking in it. Night after night...

277 Ok Madge. But I'm more of a store brand detergent kind of guy.

Bklyn,

Were you in SF last night? How was the scene? I don't care much about the record, but rather the event. I would have liked to have been there. At least a Mets fan gobbled up the ball.

278 Advertising lives! ;-) Good one!

279 Not at the park, but it's a strange thing here in SF. Giant fans I talk to seem to be about 50-50 with Bond's place in history. While you could not tell that from the crowd reaction, it's a completely different vibe around town. Most seem glad it's over and want this to just go away. The hardcore will support this guy if he axe murders 10 people. But they have little else to root for, and are looking at a rebuilding stretch that I'm not sure this fan base will understand...

280 Thanks. I was hoping that the whole town wasn't in cazy sweet love with they guy as they appear at AT&T (Which would be maybe the best esthetic stadium in the league if they would dump that glove and soda bottle).

I'll tell you. Tonight was an ass whoopin, which in some ways was more important to them than it was to us. Only two games in the loss column behind Seattle with plenty of time left. I know many have written Seattle off but think they have a talented club, and with some miraculous pitching could be right there near the top of the Wild Card battle until the end. They do have Putz to shut the door and for other guys to feed from. I worry more about them than I do Cleveland, especially if Hafner goes down for any period of time.

Well, for you guys in beautiful NorCal, it is over, and now the Mayor can back to the business at hand, keeping poor people out of San Francisco.

They just won't let it go. At least Aaron Hill has some perspective on what his teammates and coaches are doing.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2007-08-08-1156559795_x.htm