Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
Oh, by the way: Yankees Win
2007-08-02 05:30
by Alex Belth
Note: The Bronx Banter blog has moved to

You wouldn't have known that if you read the back cover of the Post this morning, which features a photograph of Alex Rodriguez sitting in the dugout. The headline? "May-Rod." Yeah, I'm a dummy if I expect anything but shamelessness from a rag that traffics in human misery. Maybe it is the heat--and it is hotter'n'July in New York right now--but I'm just disgusted.

Vic Ziegel suggests his paper, The Daily News, isn't much better:

Alex Rodriguez is the best player in the game. Okay, that was easy. There is no other candidate. When he makes it to the Hall of Fame, they will add a penthouse for him.

He is six days past his 32nd birthday, still a child in Yankee years, and is already collecting the kinds of numbers that will one day make Babe Ruth look like Ruth Babe.

A-Rod must be the best because no one - not the Babe, who was bigger than life, or the Mighty Casey, a poem's cleanup hitter, or Barry Bonds, the body that ate Pittsburgh - can come close to A-Rod's latest impressive headline. He was the big story and big picture on Page 1 of this newspaper yesterday. This is why: he didn't hit a home run the night before. Hasn't hit a home run, in fact, since the middle of last week. And didn't manage to hit one last night in the Yanks' 8-1 win over the White Sox. The Yankees tagged 13 homers in those two wins. None of them came off Rodriguez's bat. Not one, nada. When was the last time a player ever made it to Page 1 for committing the sin of not hitting a home run? Never is a good guess.

I realize I'm adding to the sideshow by evening mentioning it (guilty), so let's move on. The Yanks beat the White Sox about the face and neck last night by the tune of 8-1. Here is the real story: New York is now just two games behind Cleveland in the wildcard standings. Andy Pettitte labored early in the game but "grinded it out" and got plenty of run support: Derek Jeter, Jorge Posada, Robinson Cano, and everybody's All-American, Shelley Duncan, all homered.

It was another tough night for White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen, who saw his pitcher Charlie Haeger tossed in the eighth inning for hitting Cano with a knuckle ball:

"The only thing I wish is Major League Baseball looks at this kind of stuff and sees what's really going on out there," Guillen said. "The umpire has the right to call anything, but you have to have a little bit of common sense about baseball to do that. I've never seen anyone try and get a point across with a knuckleball.

"You can't win. You're a baseball employee ... a baseball bitch -- at least I am."

Good ol' Ozzie. Always good for a quote. Finally, here is something that is sure to generate some conversation. According to Fortune magazine, the YES Network is for sale. That was quick, huh?

Comments (87)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-08-02 06:08:13
1.   williamnyy23
The next time a drooling NY sportswriter makes a statement like the only thing that counts in NY is winning, they should be reminded of the shameless headlines over these past few days.
2007-08-02 06:12:45
2.   rbj
I almost get the feeling that all the rags want A-Rod gone. Utterly moronic.

And scary as it sounds, I agree with Ozzie. A freakin' knuckleball?

2007-08-02 06:15:13
3.   williamnyy23
The $ figures thrown around in that article are mind boggling, especially when you consider what George paid for the team back in 1973. The thought of the team being sold gives me an uneasy feeling, but overall, the mere prospect of George Steinbrenner passing on makes me very sad. Like him or hate him, he has been a huge part of the Yankees and the New York scene, and it just wont be the same without him.
2007-08-02 06:17:35
4.   tommyl
I hear Alex also failed to cure cancer last night. Was that on page 2?
2007-08-02 06:22:46
5.   Javi Javi
Regarding Ozzie, I think he is experiencing payback from this umpiring crew for his tirade during the game two nights ago. He's not diplomatic,but sure is entertaining.
2007-08-02 06:24:28
6.   williamnyy23
Some interesting and disappointing quotes from Damon here:

It's amazing how the ego can obscure the truth. I hope Torre is persuaded by Damon's veteran sensitivity to supplant Melky in CF once Giambi returns.

2007-08-02 06:26:09
7.   Alex Belth
The rags definitely don't want Alex gone. Who else are they gunna put on the cover? Nobody else on the Yanks, even Jeter, is better fodder for the tabloids. And once he hits the homer, they'll be stroaking him (or, they'll sarcastically say "Finally" or something to that effect). That's the nature of the game. Build you up, tear you down, and repeat.
2007-08-02 06:28:31
8.   Alex Belth
Hey, at least the Yanks look like they'll have a decent bench for the first time in a long time down the stretch...
2007-08-02 06:31:36
9.   williamnyy23
6 That should be isn't persuaded...not is.
2007-08-02 06:33:18
10.   RIYank
Anybody know why Joba pitched for Trenton (and not Scranton) yesterday?
2007-08-02 06:36:28
11.   Shaun P
7 I never thought of A-Rod vs the rags that way. Great point, Alex.

I wonder if the Yanks will retain their share of YES, even if GoldmanSachs and the former Nets owner sell out. While the sale price ($3.5 BILLION?!) is awfully nice, and having the extra cash to handle estate taxes etc is good, there are advantages to a team owning its own RSN too. Derek Zumsteg did a nice profile at BP a few years ago on how a team could stash profits in their RSN and decrease their revenue sharing payout. The Yanks also get to write off construction costs with regards to revenue sharing, but I'd think those are short-term only; the new Stadium will be done in by 2009.

But maybe the cash is too much to turn down. Any financial advisors out there?

2007-08-02 06:38:16
12.   OldYanksFan
I think when umpires make these INEXCUSABLE decisions, they need to be taken to task. I agree with Ozzie, that short of betting on baseball, these guys seem to have free reign.

Look at some films of Billy Martin and Lou in his early days. These guys would put on tirades that would impress Shakespeare, and often were not throw out of a game.

If you didn't cuss the ump (or a family member), they often let you do you dance, and then the game resumed. Back then, the Umps understood they were 'observers', not participants.

That call last night showed EXTREME lack of judgement. And it bothers me that MLB seems to not be concerned in the least.

2007-08-02 06:41:56
13.   Shaun P
10 I didn't but Chad Jennings of the SWB Yanks blog does:
2007-08-02 06:47:44
14.   Raf
12 "Back then, the Umps understood they were 'observers', not participants."

That ended with Ron Luciano, and to an extent Rich Garcia.

2007-08-02 06:48:58
15.   OldYanksFan
6 I thought JD was candid and open with his feelings. He and JT are in a difficult spot.

Considering the situation with Abreu (2008 or not) and that I am not sold yet on Melky's bat, as much as part fo me would like to unload JD's contract, I don't think we should trade him. He's not a great player, but when he does his (good) thing leading off, he's an important cog in the Yankee wheel.

Communication is very important here. I think JDs MAIN complaint was Torre not telling him ahead of time. His feelings were hurt, plain and simply. My bad on Torre.

This teams NEEDS to be together the rest of the year. The Post Season could literally come down to one game, one inning, one play. We need to have everyone contributuing their best.

2007-08-02 06:53:24
16.   Raf
15 It can be easily remedied, as this situation has happened before; Fielder/Martinez, Hayes/Boggs, Stanley/Fielder, Cabrera/Matsui/Damon, Lofton/Williams, so on and so forth...
2007-08-02 06:53:34
17.   rbj
11 I think the Yankees will be writing of construction costs for a few years -- that'll help keep revenue sharing down.

And it sounds like some of the limited partners may want to be bought out of Yankee ownership. That could be good if the Steinbrenner sons buy them out. Alternatively, they could form a LLC to buy the team and own it that way.

2007-08-02 07:00:23
18.   OldYanksFan
Hey! We are 2 games out of the WC. TWO GAMES! (and only 3 behind Detroit)
At the ASB, I said we still had a good chance, but I'm not sure if I believed it.
What were we.... 7 games behind Cleveland?
We have played 10 games over .500 in three weeks!

And Giambi, Phil and Joba all coming soon, and a greatly improved bench.

Is this Yankee magic? Are the ghosts back in play?

(I think even Steve Lombardi is getting excited)

6 Damon seems stung that the Yankees reportedly shopped him. Asked flat out after the game if he wanted a trade, he told reporters, "No."

"I really like the way this team is improving," he added. "We're playing really well.

2007-08-02 07:03:21
19.   Hocakes
Re: Damon:
I think some of the current Yankee players must be watching "The Bronx is Burning" and thinking, "cool". The Bronx Zoo seems to be back. Not that the Damon thing is a big deal, but just the fact that his discontent made the papers shows you that Joe isn't running as tight a ship as he once was. It seemed like there were YEARS during the first Torre dynasty where nothing interpersonal ever got to the press. I think it sort of started to change with Sheffield. Torre met his match with Sheffield. Joe couldn't rein him in; Sheff brought his many beefs to the press and there was nothing Torre could do about it, although I'm sure it burned him. Then you had Mariano popping off uncharacteristically in spring training about his contract. Now it seems common for Yankee players to go to the press with complaints Damon being the latest. Personally, I don't think it affects their ability to win very much, but Torre gets a lot of credit for (and has inadequacies forgiven in other areas such as bullpen management) for maintaining a good clubhouse atmosphere and for managing the press to the benefit of his players' psyches. Well, he's not doing that anymore.
2007-08-02 07:07:00
20.   williamnyy23
11 As 17 mentions, I believe the revenue sharing rules allow the Yankees to write off debt costs. Of course, the Yankees are expecting at least $150mn in incremental revenue as a result of the new ball park, so the benefit of writing off the debt will be off set and then some.

What I think might be driving the Yankees' interest in a sale is Selig's intention to more heavily scrutinize how RSN's value team programming. It could be that endeavor will lead to the mitigation of some of the benefits of team-owned channels. Also, the cash is simply insane. Think of it this way…the Yankees stake in YES would be worth about $1.26bn if the $3.5bn sale price is correct. If the Yankees took that number and invested it at a modest 8% ROI, the annual return would be over $100mn. Now, add in that the Yankees' rights fees would probably at least be $100mn (presumably, the buyer would negotiate a long-term deal with the Yankees). As a result, the combined revenue of $200mn would actually be more than current cash flow of YES, in which the Yankees only have a 36% stake.

Selling YES would generate the same return as selling the team, but without having to actually sell the team. The Yankees would also retain the main asset of YES (their games) once the long-term deal expired.

All in all, a sale probably makes a lot of sense for all of the investors involved.

2007-08-02 07:10:32
21.   williamnyy23
20 Note that taxes were excluded from the calculations above, so while they may not be entirely accurate, the principles would be the same.
2007-08-02 07:13:08
22.   RIYank
13 Ah, that makes sense.
2007-08-02 07:13:17
23.   monkeypants
15 I would trade JD, if not now then certainly in the off season. Not out of malice, mind you--but as much as I am not sold on Melky's bat, I am completely sold on the fact that Damon cannot play CF anymore and will(probably) never hit well enought to warrant playing corner OF full time. If that's the case, then Melky wins by default, and there is little room left for Damon on the roster except #4 OF.

It's probably worth keeping him around this season, because I'm not sure that they have an OF in the system who could replace his bat (though KT intrigues me as a RH stopgap). On the other hand, they are LH heavy and vulnerable to LHP. If they found a waiver pick-up OF who was RH and had either power or speed, I would swap them in a second.

2007-08-02 07:15:33
24.   OldYanksFan
Gentlemen: 28 years ago today:

"On the day after his death, before the start of the Yankees' four-game set with the Baltimore Orioles in the Bronx, the Yankees paid tribute to their fallen captain in a pre-game ceremony during which the starters stood at their defensive positions, save for the catcher's box, which remained empty

That night, in front of a national viewing audience, the Yankees beat Baltimore 5-4 in New York, with Murcer driving in all five runs with a three-run home run in the seventh inning and a two-run single in the bottom of the ninth.

Not long after Munson's death, Yankees owner George Steinbrenner announced No. 15 would be retired. On Sept. 20, 1980, a plaque was dedicated in Munson's memory in Yankee Stadium's fabled Monument Park.

Out of sheer respect for his character and performance Munson's locker at Yankee Stadium remains empty to this day."

Steve at WW has some appropriate links.

2007-08-02 07:16:08
25.   Count Zero
15 Excellent post...agree totally.

I'm really starting to feel good about this team -- as pointed out, the depth of the bench including veterans reminiscent of the late 90s, Hekkyl and Jekkyl's enthusiasm and the way they treat A-Rod as a big brother, the Shelley Story, and potential bullpen magic to come from Joba and Edwar (imagine Edwar's Bugs Bunny change coming in after Joba's heat).

It's too early to talk playoffs when we are still two out, but I am very encouraged by events since the ASB. We're going to find out just how good a people person JT is in the next few weeks as Giambi returns, and possibly even Mink the Stink. Will he automatically re-insert veterans at the expense of the kids, or will he find a way to ride the hot hand as he did in '96?

2007-08-02 07:17:48
26.   OldYanksFan
24 I remember exactly where I was when I heard. You?
2007-08-02 07:18:35
27.   RIYank
Cool Standings today has the Yankees at exactly 50% to win the WC, with another 7% chance to win the division. This is the first time I remember that we're odds-on to make the play-offs!
2007-08-02 07:32:35
28.   joejoejoe
Do most managers let their players know personally (or through coaches) if a player is in or out of the lineup? Why wouldn't you tell an player what their job was for the day (be ready on the bench)? I'm sure Damon would be better prepared hearing he was going to be a bench player than finding out from the lineup card. I know the burden is on players to be professional but what possible benefit can their be in NOT telling a veteran with 2000+ hits that he's sitting behind a guy with twenty odd career ABs?
2007-08-02 07:45:27
29.   Alex Belth
With all due respect, no matter what static the Yanks deal with, the Bronx Zoo is dead and will never return. Things might get hot again one day, but this team is tame, a bunch of pussy cats compared with the teams of the late 70s-80s.
2007-08-02 07:46:52
30.   pistolpete
7 Gotta love the major sports sites' subtle approach as well - more often than not, I'll see a headline in the ticker that reads something like: "Yanks pound Chicago", but then you'll see right next to it, "A-Rod fails to homer".

As if the average baseball fan is going to sign on to ESPN or and think, "Hmm, I don't see anything about A-Rod hitting his 500th home run, but he may have done it anyway - let me go to another web site just to make sure."

Are you kidding me? We all know A-Rod's image will be splashed ALL over the place once he hits #500, and you'd have to be living under a rock in a cave on Mars not to know about it.

You don't need to tell us EVERY day that he didn't hit #500 yet.

We know.

It's pretty obvious.

2007-08-02 07:51:43
31.   pistolpete
29 I think ALL athletes now are pussycats compared to that era anyway.

Then again, the players in the 70's were pussycats compared to the sports stars of the 40's & 50's. Baseball used to be just a summer job for those guys, and then they'd go back to loading crates on trucks or delivering meat or whatever else they did...

2007-08-02 08:06:47
32.   Z Man
I'm looking at the cover of Newsday which states, "More Pop, Another Flop"... 13 HR's in 2 games and we get that headline,"hey Media, lay off the man already and let him bang out #500 with ease (I'm speaking to deaf ears right now)".

Side Note- Does anyone want Giambi back in the cruising lineup we currently have? If I recall last year, when we threw Sheff and others back in the lineup, it spelt out the Yankee demise...

2007-08-02 08:08:51
33.   OldYanksFan
29 Especially the rift between Munson and Jackson. It divided the entire team.

Reggie said: "This team, it all flows from me. I'm the straw that stirs the drink. Maybe I should say me and Munson, but he can only stir it bad."

I have strongly disliked Reggie since that day.
Imagine ARod saying that about Jeter?
And the feud between Munson and Fisk made the current relationship between the Sox and Yankees look like family.

Then add a crazed Billy Martin and (future) criminally insane George Steinbrenner to the mix.

Fortunately, they had 3 winning teams then, because if not for that, they would have been extremely dark days for the Yankees.

(Thank God for Torre and his white horse)

2007-08-02 08:09:14
34.   ny2ca2dc
32 When Matsui came back he was a beast. Sheff, not so much. Yes, i want Giambi back, but only if he's up to form.
2007-08-02 08:14:33
35.   Shaun P
27 BP's Playoff Odds (compared to yesterday):

AL Wildcard
Yanks 39.40946
Indians 22.41283
Tigers 14.51572
Twins 4.72001
M's 6.7822
Jays 2.88666
Red Sox 4.14619
Angels 3.67781

That's up almost 7% for the Yanks in one day - let's see what another win will do!

2007-08-02 08:15:21
36.   Raf
33 Was Reggie wrong?
2007-08-02 08:15:27
37.   williamnyy23
33 He kind of said something similar, which made the Alex/Jeter relationship a very mini version of Munson/Jackson.
2007-08-02 08:15:54
38.   Shaun P
32 34 I hope that, if Giambi looks sluggish, he won't play everyday. I really hope Duncan stays around to DH vs LHP until Giambi proves he's 100% back.
2007-08-02 08:19:55
39.   Z Man
We all know what Giambi's capable of and I'm all for him playing...eventually. We're 36-20 without him and to shake everything up (between Damon, Duncan, Melky and Giambi) just doesn't add up to me...JT has his work cut out for him!
2007-08-02 08:21:14
40.   Alex Belth
Hey, you don't have to apologize to me about calling Reggie an a-hole. He was most certainly that. But he was right too--Yanks didn't win it with Munson and they won two with Reggie. He wasn't always a big game player--witness his ALCS in 77--but he was often enough. The guy could actually back up the boasts. Had many flaws, especially by the time he reached New York, but he hit some huge, huge homers for the Yanks.

And not for nothing, but Thurman Munson wasn't exactly a sweetheart. He was an angry, self-absorbed sombitch.

2007-08-02 08:21:40
41.   mehmattski
37The difference being that A-Rod saying that about Jeter is utterly wrong, as Jeter had won four rings before A-Rod ever arrived. Munson, however, had just one pennant and no rings. Without Jackson, the 1977 Yankees finish in third place.

Similarly, without Alex Rodriguez, the Yankees would probably be 10 games under .500 right now. Oddly enough, out of A-Rod's first three months this season, May was the worst.

I'm proud to say I have never purchased a copy of either the Post or the News.

2007-08-02 08:22:37
42.   williamnyy23
35 I want Giambi back too. The parallel to Sheff is not 100% accurate because Giambi will be much more accepting of a limited role. For one, he has a guaranteed $20mn next season, and secondly, he simply isn't as surly and selfish as Sheffield. I firmly believe that Torre was intimidated into playing Sheffield because he didn't want to deal with the headache.

I see no problem why an arrangement like the following couldn't keep everyone happy:

6 games/week – Melky plays all 5 in CF and 1 in RF. Damon plays 3 in LF and 1 in CF. Matsui Plays 3 in LF; 3 at DH; Giambi plays 3 at DH; 1 at 1B; Abreu plays 5 in RF.

2007-08-02 08:24:53
43.   Yu-Hsing Chen
Joba played in Trenton I believe because of some odd passport issue that didn't allow him back into Canada. so they decided might as well send him closer to town.

For Damon, I have a suspicion that Newsday misused his quote to make a story look a lot more than just Damon being frustrated by his season. but we shall see...

As for Giambi, I want him back that's for sure. we aren't getting much from the DH spot with Damon there most of the time.. only real production we're getting is Shelley's crazy burst that's not the greatest bet to count on for the rest of the way. not to meantion Phillips better start hitting some extra base hits and/or walks or he's going to look awfully bad awfully soon (he was robbed a couple of time recently though, so there's still a little hope, but it seems far more likely we end up with Betemit playing 1B more often than not the rest of the way.)

2007-08-02 08:25:54
44.   OldYanksFan
32 Very small sample size (1 month last year), but I agree the chemistry was off, and Shef at 1st was very weird. But I think it was really taking Melky out of the mix that hurt their energy (and defense).

The Yankees NEED a healthy, powerful Giambi in the 3 or 5 slot. At DH, as long as Melky stays in CF and Torre handles the rotating of JD/Abreu/Matsui/Phillips well, we are a VERY deep team.

This also means that we can rest Posada more. He's doing great, but lets not take a 175-181 season lightly for the guy. Being able to have 'scheduled' rest for our older players is an advanmtage in a long season (as long as Torre lets everyone know what's going on).

And as well as they are doing, lets not forget they can 'crush out' 5 runs in any 3 game series.

I mean, I love what FrankenShelly has done so far, it's really cool. But are you guys counting on this to continue? Into the PS? Seriously? Duncan/Damon in our PS lineup instead of Giambi?

I guess a lot of folks here see the 'steroid, one-dimensional, clogging-the-bases, often injured dolt'. I see a guy who overcame tremendous odds in 2005, who has a real passion to win, who 5 years out of 6 averaged a .415 OBP and .975+ OPS, who was always our 2nd or 3rd most important offensive player.

2007-08-02 08:28:43
45.   OldYanksFan
36 Was Reggie wrong?
Was Reggie WRONG!
Dude! I don't have the words. Some other old person help me.
2007-08-02 08:28:52
46.   williamnyy23
41 I didn't mean he said exactly the same thing...rather, his comments were more, I am a player teams have to stop, while Jeter is just a cog in a strong Yankee lineup. That's not exactly saying "Jeter can only stir it bad", but it did make waves none the less. Also, like RJ's statement, Arod's had a kernel of truth behind it, which I guess is why both upset people so.
2007-08-02 08:32:39
47.   seamus
44 he is both the dolt and the good hitter.
2007-08-02 08:34:17
48.   ric

it may not be obvious to a large number of ESPN viewers that undoubtedly do not watch Yanks games. However, I do agree that ARod gets treated pretty crappy.

2007-08-02 08:39:06
49.   Start Spreading the News
I wonder what the Cashman detractors have to say about this quote from Newark Star Ledger:

"Torre has frustrated people in the front office with his loyalty to slumping veterans and his refusal to use the players (Shelley Duncan, Edwar Ramirez, Andy Phillips when he first came up) they have promoted from their system. He voiced strong opposition to proposed deals for outfielder Milton Bradley and infielder Morgan Ensberg — deals the Yankees eventually turned down in part because they believed those players would just rot on the bench. Duncan, who was a budding cult hero at Yankee Stadium a week and a half ago, played in just two games on the road trip that followed his big-splash debut weekend."

2007-08-02 08:42:14
50.   Raf
41 But is the ring count even relevant? Bernie Williams has more rings than Willie Mays. Tino Martinez has more rings than Don Mattingly. Paul O'Neill has more rings than Dave Winfield. Doesn't mean they're better players.

45 You may not have the words, but baseball reference has the numbers. And that's what people are judged on. Reggie may have been an ass, but he's in the Hall of Fame because he was "the Straw that stirred the drink." He was the man in Oakland, Baltimore and NY.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-08-02 08:44:44
51.   williamnyy23
45 It depends...what Reggie says he said was pretty accurate. What Ward said he said wouldn't have been.

Reggie was the straw the stirred the drink, albeit it a very tasty cocktail before he got there, but still in need of something to improve the mix.

However, if Reggie did really say Munson could only stir it bad, well, that wouldn't have been accurate. Winning the ALCS isn't the same as the WS, but it's not a bad consolation.

Finally, I wonder if Munson, for the rest of his brief life, ordered all of his drinks "shaken, not stirred"?

2007-08-02 08:45:57
52.   RIYank
51 No, that wasn't Munson, that was Bonds. Bobby Bonds.
2007-08-02 08:48:06
53.   tommyl
49 No no no, don't start that up again.

As for people questioning why the FO people don't tell Joe who to play more/less etc. did anyone see this week's Bronx is Burning. Man, all that drama over whether or not Reggie should bat fourth. I can just see Cash calling down and saying, "Hey Joe, why not try pitching someone else besides Viz." And Joe saying, "You want to be the manager?" Its not that easy. Cash and the others can express their opinions, but so long as Joe is the manager, its his call. The only team I can think of where its not like that is the As, as Beane will fire people for not listening.

2007-08-02 08:49:04
54.   tommyl
50 Ahem, Miguel Cairo has more rings than Don Mattingly.
2007-08-02 08:52:09
55.   NJYankee41
54 They both have zero.
2007-08-02 08:55:34
56.   OldYanksFan
50 When talking about an individual player, rings mean nothing. Rings belong to teams. Loui Soho and Bucky Dent have more rings then Mattingly or Winsfield too. What does that mean.

41 In 1977, Reggie had an OPS of .925. Quite good. Almost Giambi-like. While our surely catcher only had an OPS of .810 and a BA of .308. I guess that's why Reggie finished in 8th place for MVP... and Thurman only finished in 7th.

Reggie was a great player and an asshole. Munson was the heart of the team. Reggie didn't win it for us in 1977, but he did put us over the top.

2007-08-02 09:02:02
57.   cult of basebaal
49 jesus, why don't you just stand in front of the mirror and say "jim dean! Jim Dean!! JIM DEAN!!!"
2007-08-02 09:03:19
58.   Z Man
The Bronx is Burning has been a great show to really captivate the "behind the scenes" that no one really knows about. Me being 24, I've only heard stories of the Yankees during the 70's, so this show has really showed the truth of some elite players- it's not all good all the time haha...Billy Martin's the man.

Reggie's quality and Munson's forever our Captain.

2007-08-02 09:07:36
59.   Yu-Hsing Chen
Shelley does have true plus plus power but to stay effectively your going to have to not overexpose him, he whiffs with the best of them and isn't the most patient hitter (at least in the minors.. though you know what they say, you don't walk your way into the big leagues)
2007-08-02 09:13:16
60.   pistolpete
48 But imagine if you will, what's front page would look like once he does hit #500. They're undoubtedly going to beat people over the head with it. So is there really a need to reiterate every day that he didn't hit it yet?

Same with Bonds - I know I'll read it somewhere the instant he hits the tying HR and/or the record-breaker... if I don't see a tidal wave of media telling me this, I'll assume he didn't.

2007-08-02 09:17:34
61.   tommyl
Betemit is playing SS! Just got 2-4 with a walk man and make some nice plays. That'll up your BFOG+
2007-08-02 09:18:19
62.   YankeeInMichigan
18 I'm not breaking out the champagne yet. The Yankees came into July needing to win every remaining series to get to 97 wins, the total probably needed to secure a playoff berth. Playing against the dregs of the league (and mostly at home), they are one game behind the necessary pace (having lost two of three to Baltimore and not swept anyone).

Show me a sweep of Chicago or KC, and then series wins against Cleveland, LAA, Detroit, Boston and Seattle. Then it will be party time.

2007-08-02 09:23:43
63.   Schteeve
62 No need to break out the bubbly, but they are 2 back of the WC. I'm not counting any chickens yet, but I am warming up the frying pan.
2007-08-02 09:24:08
64.   NJYankee41
57 Very funny line. The levels of truth in it make the joke.
2007-08-02 09:24:45
65.   Zack
OT, sorta:

MVN's pending pinstripes posted a question about what you would give up if you were GM of the Yanks for Santana. I know this was debated a bit yesterday, but my answer was as follows, and I would be curious to what others thought:

You give up the house. Anyone and everyone save Hughes. I'm sorry, but as good as Joba will be, he ain't gonna be any better than Santana, period. Obviously you do this with the so called "window to negotiate an extension." You can't let him get to FA and watch as another team trades for him and signs him.

Santana paired with Hughes and Wang, followed by whoever, is a top three for the record books.

The Yankees have the luxury of being able to trade away Joba, Horne, Jackson and someone else and STILL have a pretty good farm system. Santana will be entering his prime, and were it not for his two short first seasons, would have 1 season with an era above 3.00 and thats at 3.07. We're talking an ERA+ with a MINIMUM of 150 with a 5:1 K:BB.

I'm sorry, but for all we know, Joba or whoever could be the next Cy Young. Or they could be the next Mark Prior. Or the next Kerry Wood. What you DO know, is what Santana will give you, and that is better than you could get from anyone. Period.

2007-08-02 09:26:20
66.   Zack
And yeah, Betimit playing today is a classic Torre move that I like. Play the new guy immediately to break them in. What I don't like is exactly what 61 hints at. If you fail to impress on day one, its day 21 when you see action again...
2007-08-02 09:33:03
67.   williamnyy23
The Indians season of bad luck continues. First they get snowed out of April and now their entire series against the Twins is in jeopardy of being postponed. Incredible.
2007-08-02 09:36:13
68.   standuptriple
48 FWIW, I think a lot of Yanks fans refrain from watching ESPN.
2007-08-02 09:36:13
69.   NJYankee41
65 I agree with you completely on knowing what you're going to get out of Santana. He is one of the few players you would break the bank for along with Pujols. No one knows what you are going to get from any prospect. All you can do is make educated guesses and hope for the best.

But on the other hand in the point of view a Yankee fan I think it is a lot more fun seeing guys from the system come up and win. You're not only rooting for the Yanks to win but you would be rooting for Hughes, Joba or Kennedy to have brilliant careers. I think it would just be a lot of fun and more rewarding to see those guys win it for us, if all goes well with their development of course. Don't get me wrong I like Santana a lot and would take him on my team any day. I'm not agaisnt a trade, its just more rewarding doing it without the best players in every position.

2007-08-02 09:38:47
70.   Yu-Hsing Chen
67 run differntial suggest they are probably one of the luckier teams in the AL.
2007-08-02 09:39:31
71.   OldYanksFan
I don't know how their future vs. past schedule and injuries play into it, but Cleveland is playing .561 ball (91) wins and Detroit .570 ball (92) wins. They are both very catchable. I would say we need to play .650 ball (36-19), which wins 94 games.

I would like better, but I'm guessing that 94 wins gets the WC. Seattle might stay where they are, but I can't see it. This means both Detroit and Cleveland have to play around .610 to .620 ball. And they go head-to-head 8 times.

I haven't popped the cork yet, but I feel the WC is ours to lose. And I think we have a substancially better team in a week or so then we have had all year.

Still possible, but I can't see winning the div unless we win 5 of 6 from Boston.

This series in Cleveland is VERY BIG.

2007-08-02 09:41:45
72.   OldYanksFan
67 WHY?
2007-08-02 09:42:31
73.   williamnyy23
72 Due to the bridge collapse that took place yesterday.
2007-08-02 09:43:56
74.   OldYanksFan
73 Wow, really? I wish they had a televsion show that told you the new things happening around the country.
2007-08-02 09:45:32
75.   seamus
74 you don't know about the bridge collapse?
2007-08-02 09:45:40
76.   RIYank
I say even 92 wins gets us the WC. In fact, I bet only the Yankees and the division winners break 90 this year.
2007-08-02 09:47:04
77.   Peter
66 Unless, of course, the new guy has a lot of veteranness under his belt.
2007-08-02 09:51:37
78.   Alex Belth
Hey Z-Man, do yourself a favor and read Ed Linn's account of the 77 season, "Inside the Yankees: The Championship Year," (or his book "Steinbrenner's Yankees") or "The Best Team Money Can Buy," by Steve Jacobson if you want the uncut versions of what really went down in 77. You'll see how lacking the ESPN series is, and just how dizzying the craziness was.
2007-08-02 09:52:12
79.   OldYanksFan
75 I didn't. Was it mentioned here last night? I used to watch MSNBC from 7-9, but now I'm here.

Looks very nasty. Have they officially cancelled any of the 4 Minn/Cleveland games (starting Friday)?

2007-08-02 09:52:23
80.   Raf
Hell, even ESPN covered the bridge collapse...
2007-08-02 09:54:28
81.   Raf
78 Reading Jacobson's book kinda made me wish Dock Ellis stuck around for the whole year.
2007-08-02 09:56:22
82.   YankeeInMichigan
I don't like the Karstens callup at all, especially if they are looking for a late-innings guy to replace Proctor. With Thome batting as the potential go-ahead run in the 8th, I would much rather see Edwar pitching than Karstens.

When I saw the notice of the transaction, I was sure that Edwar was still within his 10-day freeze period. But no, he was optioned on July 21.

2007-08-02 09:58:13
83.   OldYanksFan
80 You watch ESPN?
2007-08-02 10:02:13
84.   YankeeInMichigan
69 Well said. Sitting in Comerica last year and feeling the electricity when Zumaya entered reminded me of Guidry in '78. An import can never capture the heart of a city the way a home-grown star can.
2007-08-02 10:03:03
85.   Bama Yankee
80 That reminds me of the old SNL sketch:

2007-08-02 10:07:54
86.   Raf
83 Not often, I watch it or ESPN 2 to catch up on scores.
2007-08-02 13:47:00
87.   Z Man
well would you look at this... farnsworth gave up BACK TO BACK SOLO him the rest of the year salary and shove a bat up his a.s.s on his way out

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