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Getting It Done
2007-07-15 01:09
by Cliff Corcoran

Chien-Ming Wang allowed three runs in the first inning last night, but quickly adjusted, mixing in more sliders and changeups to hold the Devil Rays to a lone single over the next four innings. Meanwhile, the Yankees chipped away with a run in the third, a Hideki Matsui solo homer in the fourth, and a two-run homer by Bobby Abreu in the fifth to take a 4-3 lead. Wang got into trouble again in the sixth, loading the bases with two outs, but struck out Jonny Gomes to end the inning and his evening. The Yanks tagged on an insurance run in the seventh thanks to some aggressive base running by Johnny Damon, who went from first to third on a single to left and scored on a groundout. That run was crucial, as, after Ron Villone pitched a perfect seventh, Kyle Farnsworth gave up a solo home run to Carlos Pena in the eighth, an inning he escaped only when Jorge Posada gunned out B. J. Upton stealing second. The Yanks got that run back in the top of the ninth, however, again thanks to Damon's legs as Johnny walked, stole second, and scored on a Bobby Abreu double. Incidentally, speed made the first Yankee run happen as well, as, with the bases loaded and one out in the third, Bobby Abreu (there's that man again) hit into what looked like a sure inning-ending double play, but burned up the first-base line to beat the pivot throw as Andy Phillips scored from third. Mariano Rivera shut the door in the ninth, nailing down the 6-4 win and picking up his 425th career save, which moved him past John Franco into third place on the all-time saves list. The other big numbers on the night were Abreu's five RBIs and Chien-Ming Wang's six strikeouts against no walks in six innings.

Today the Yanks look to wrap up the series by taking three of four, which is exactly what they need to do against teams such as the Devil Rays. The bad news is that Mike Mussina will be working on a whole bunch of rest. The good news is that he only has to be better than 23-year-old Edwin Jackson, who is 1-9 with a 7.23 ERA and a 1.89 WHIP on the season and also hasn't started since July 4, when he gave up 7 runs in five innings against the Red Sox.

Comments (459)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-07-15 03:32:10
1.   OldYanksFan
JD is not hitting, by at least he is running. What's his injury status? Is he permenantly quasi-injured? Does he heal? Will he get 'better'?

His ABs are preety weak. It looked like he needed all his strength to get a LD over the 2nd basemans head.

I've accepted that we just don't know what we will get out of hot'n'cold Melky and Cano, but we need both Abreu and JD if we still have a chance at the PS.

2007-07-15 06:27:37
2.   Sliced Bread
This isn't good. I slept on my left side last night. I always sleep on my right side the night before Moose starts a day game following a night game. Made it even worse this morning as I brushed my teeth before shaving which, of course, puts his control over the knuckle-curve in jeopardy.

Well, at least Nieves is catching today, so we have that going for us...

2007-07-15 06:54:50
3.   Jim Dean
2 Hilarious satire! I love it.
2007-07-15 09:31:37
4.   JL25and3
2 Here's the strange part: those same things will actually benefit Nieves. You've greatly increased the chance of hitting one within 30 feet of the warning track - or, as Michael Kay would have it, "flirting with extra bases."
2007-07-15 09:32:17
5.   JL25and3
That's "of *his hitting one." Probably didn't increase your chances all that much.
2007-07-15 09:37:49
6.   Jim Dean
PeteAbe does it again:

"The Yankees play the Toronto Blue Jays tomorrow night, the first meeting between the teams since the celebrated incident on May 30 when Alex Rodriguez yelled, "Mine!" to distract their infielders from catching a pop-up."

2007-07-15 10:57:13
7.   Mattpat11
6 I don't get it. Thats not the first meeting?
2007-07-15 10:57:39
8.   Yankees Brasil
I think the D'rays are going to get at least 5 SB...Nieves is pretty weak
2007-07-15 11:00:54
9.   Zack
7 No, its the way Abe phrases it, saying definitively that he "yelled, "Mine!" to distract their infielders from catching a pop-up," as if its cut and dry, and of course, in so doing, pretending there is something there when there isn't...

Good ol' Moose, eh?

2007-07-15 11:02:05
10.   mehmattski
Choices for today: Yankees-DRays, or watching the guy who's counting to one million on the internet (http://www.millioncount.com/). I think it's a tossup.
2007-07-15 11:04:42
11.   Mattpat11
Mussina's getting squeezed something fierce.
2007-07-15 11:05:48
12.   Yankees Brasil
11 Let's hope he doesnt blame it on the extra days of rest!!
2007-07-15 11:05:59
13.   Mattpat11
9 I think part of it is that I believe that's exactly what he did. I always thought the idea that he just yelled "Ha" for no good reason to be absurd.
2007-07-15 11:06:29
14.   Mattpat11
12 I blame in on CB Bucknor being amongst the worst umpires in baseball.
2007-07-15 11:07:17
15.   Mattpat11
Well, I've seen enough of this.
2007-07-15 11:07:18
16.   Eirias
It is sad. Mike Mussina used to be one of my favorite pitchers. He was an intelligent, well spoken player who outwitted the batter. He even fielded well. But between his (admittedly inevitable) decline in performance due to age and his finicky (some might say whiny) nature regarding anything that might interrupt his pitching routine, I have come to dislike him a little.
2007-07-15 11:07:58
17.   Zack
I hate Moose.
2007-07-15 11:08:00
18.   mehmattski
Carlos Pena couldn't have started his breakout one year earlier?
2007-07-15 11:08:17
19.   WeMissPaulie
He's jumped the shark
2007-07-15 11:09:29
20.   Mattpat11
Bucknor is a hideous umpire that picks fights with players. Remember the David Wells incident? A good 40 percent of these called balls have been strikes.
2007-07-15 11:10:46
21.   WeMissPaulie
Mattpat.

Seriously? Is it THAT bad?

2007-07-15 11:12:24
22.   Mattpat11
21 Horrendous. Mussina isn't pitching well, but he's gotten nothing that didn't go right down the middle.
2007-07-15 11:14:59
23.   mehmattski
The MLB Extra Innings commercial fails to point out the Yankees fan who lives in Iowa, unable to see the Yankees when they play the Royals, Cardinals, White Sox, Cubs, Twins or Tigers.
2007-07-15 11:16:06
24.   Zack
I swear, if this is going to be one of those games...
2007-07-15 11:17:37
25.   Mattpat11
24 Its already one of those games.
2007-07-15 11:18:08
26.   iicollies
23
As it happens, I do live in Iowa. Didn't see the commercial however
2007-07-15 11:18:16
27.   Bob Timmermann
The Tampa crowd sounds like they are all listening to Sterling call every fly ball as they are getting very excited on routine fly outs.
2007-07-15 11:19:57
28.   Mattpat11
Ty Cobbington irritates me like few other baseball players.
2007-07-15 11:21:16
29.   Mattpat11
Well, that's rock bottom.
2007-07-15 11:22:09
30.   Jim Dean
9 Yup, that's it. A-Rod says he said "Ha!" and the video evidence backs that up, but it becomes definitely "Mine!".

And yup - trying to start something - all cause he doesn't like A-Rod.

It's hard to trust a writer when even on the little things they're loose and goose with the facts.

And good thing the Yanks let Pena get away! You know cause they had a great plan for last off-season. Shocking that last year the Yanks had Durazo and Pena and Stinnett and Fasano - and any of those would have been improvements for this year's team.

2007-07-15 11:23:04
31.   williamnyy23
Mike Mussina's act is very tiresome.
2007-07-15 11:24:24
32.   Mattpat11
I mean this in the nicest way possible, but watching such a phenomenal baseball player as Alex Rodriguez struggle so much on pop ups is kind of funny.
2007-07-15 11:25:23
33.   mehmattski
Sorry to channel some Bill Simmons, but this game is like playing Madden, when the computer just decides you're just not going to win.
2007-07-15 11:25:33
34.   matt nokes forever
25 Yes, Mattpat, it is most definitely one of those games already.

Fucking Moose... that extra day of rest b/c of the all star game must be sucking the life out of him...

2007-07-15 11:26:33
35.   Mattpat11
Are we off tomorrow?
2007-07-15 11:27:25
36.   iicollies
What was on the "MLB Extra Innings commercial"?
2007-07-15 11:27:25
37.   matt nokes forever
32 Or you could have someone like Cano who nonchalants every catch so much that half the time you have a heart attack b/c you're convinced he won't make it.
2007-07-15 11:27:42
38.   williamnyy23
34 Mussina is the king of excuses...too much rest; bad defensive play behind him; umpire is squeezing him. It seems as if Mussina can only pitch with Zero adversity.
2007-07-15 11:28:34
39.   matt nokes forever
8 Brasil, that's already two steals... by Crawford alone... five isn't too far of a reach.
2007-07-15 11:28:50
40.   JeremyM
33 Man, was there anything worse than that happening? You'd be up 35-0 and next thing you know, you're fumbling, you can't tackle, can't do anything except sit there and take it.
2007-07-15 11:29:43
41.   matt nokes forever
38 And on that day, he would complain that there was no adversity to deal with, hence rendering his knucklecurve useless.
2007-07-15 11:30:13
42.   Mattpat11
Please tell me we're off tomorrow.

I can't stomach an Igawa game after this.

2007-07-15 11:30:13
43.   mehmattski
36 It shows a bunch of lonely-looking fans in black and white as they can't see their favorit team- a Cubs fan in Seattle, a Red Sox fan in Cincinnati, a White Sox fan in Atlanta. Then the White Sox fan catches a ball as the announcer starts talking about Extra Innings, and the commercial goes to color.

What's weird is I think it's a commercial that only people watching Extra Innings can see. So, they're advertising something I've already purchased.

2007-07-15 11:31:26
44.   matt nokes forever
42 Sorry, we're home against the Jays tomorrow night... Igawa it is.
2007-07-15 11:31:42
45.   Mattpat11
And here's Nieves.
2007-07-15 11:31:46
46.   williamnyy23
Is there anymore helpless feeling than rooting for Wil Nieves to get a hit?
2007-07-15 11:31:51
47.   Jim Dean
Why not trade Mussina? He's got a no-trade but a team like the Brewers could use him.

And Crawford running at will on Nieves.

2007-07-15 11:32:16
48.   Mattpat11
44 God fucking Damnit
2007-07-15 11:32:19
49.   matt nokes forever
45 And there he goes.
2007-07-15 11:32:36
50.   williamnyy23
47 Make you can trade Moose and Nieves in a package deal?
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-07-15 11:33:06
51.   matt nokes forever
46 Yeah, rooting for Moose when he's had an extra day of rest.
2007-07-15 11:33:34
52.   Jim Dean
42 Igawa tomorrow.
2007-07-15 11:34:08
53.   Mattpat11
50 Who in all hell would want Wil Nieves? Besides inexplicably the Yankees?
2007-07-15 11:34:34
54.   Jim Dean
50 For what, Koyie Hill or Sal Fasano?

But I think this team needs to earn reinforcement first...

2007-07-15 11:35:05
55.   JeremyM
Someone forgot to tell the Yanks that Edwin Jackson is horrible.
2007-07-15 11:35:22
56.   williamnyy23
At 3-0 in the third, this has gone from a game that should be in the bank to pending loss. How long will Cashman be content to hover around .500? It's either time to break things up or make a change to shake things up. Standing pat is accepting mediocrity.
2007-07-15 11:35:41
57.   Jim Dean
Leave to the Yanks to help Edwin Jackson find his potential.
2007-07-15 11:36:36
58.   williamnyy23
53 You have to look past the .120 batting average. What counts is Nieves' ability to get Mussian through the game. How long have you been watching baseball?
2007-07-15 11:37:50
59.   matt nokes forever
56 But there is so little of the nucleus that we can blow up... half of the big shots that people would take a flier on have no trade clauses... and who truly wants the Farnsworths, Nieveses, Cairos, Damons, and Igawas? The only one we can probably move is Melky, and he's one of the only ones actually playing well... Do we blow up the farm system for this shitty team to MAYBE sneak into the playoffs? Fuck it, just wait until the offseason.
2007-07-15 11:40:04
60.   williamnyy23
THROW NIEVES OUT!
2007-07-15 11:40:04
61.   Mattpat11
59 With Worthless, you'd just have to convince some other team that his numbers don't matter because he throws 100 MPH
2007-07-15 11:42:02
62.   williamnyy23
CB Bucknor is one of the worst umpires in baseball. I'd like to see umpire stats made public. They are making very big bucks and should be held accountable.
2007-07-15 11:42:07
63.   Mattpat11
Now fucking Bucknor should be suspended. Who the fuck told this asshole that he's part of the show and has ANY business marching out to the mound with his mask off?

Maybe if you punish these assholes it will get through their thick skulls that THEY ARE NOT PART OF THE SHOW.

2007-07-15 11:42:33
64.   JeremyM
60 He should be suspended for the duration of the season, I don't know what he did but it was uncalled for. An example needs to be set.
2007-07-15 11:47:58
65.   Mattpat11
There should be a new rule. If the umpire removes his mask to argue, the player gets one free shot. If he fails to knock the ump out, the player is fined and suspended. If he succeeds, the umpire is.

NOTHING infuriates me like an umpire that wants to be part of the show.

2007-07-15 11:48:54
66.   iicollies
Why did Bucknor go to mound?
2007-07-15 11:49:46
67.   matt nokes forever
65 I'ld love to see Farnsworth's one free shot against Bucknor.
2007-07-15 11:50:10
68.   Mattpat11
66 So everyone would know he was CB Bucknor.
2007-07-15 11:50:26
69.   williamnyy23
Honestly...what explains an effort like this one? Between Mussina not being able to focus on the mound and a lineup of hackers against a pitcher with no control, it looks like this team has already mailed it in.
2007-07-15 11:50:49
70.   Mattpat11
67 Even better. The team gets to pick who gets to hit the umpire.
2007-07-15 11:51:27
71.   Mattpat11
68 Get away day
2007-07-15 11:51:57
72.   Mattpat11
One thing though, Bucknor has been awful for both teams.
2007-07-15 11:54:07
73.   williamnyy23
First pitch pop-up...is there an approach or is everyone just freelancing up there?
2007-07-15 11:55:17
74.   Mattpat11
73 This is the opposite of our David Wells approach.
2007-07-15 11:55:30
75.   Jim Dean
After 25 years, I need a new team. Any suggestions?

They need:
1) A good young lineup
2) At least one good young pitcher
3) A decent front office not afraid to make interesting moves.
4) A manager that doesn't spin the BFoG wheel.
5) A good blog.

I'm thinking the Brewers or the Padres. But the D-Rays could maybe work too.

2007-07-15 11:56:13
76.   williamnyy23
If I was Joe, I'd pull Moose here and pat him on the back for not showing up.
2007-07-15 11:56:33
77.   Mattpat11
Jesus Christ. Get the crappy catcher out.
2007-07-15 11:57:11
78.   williamnyy23
75 When the going gets tough, Jim Dean gets going?
2007-07-15 11:57:44
79.   williamnyy23
MEMO to Mussina...you have to hold runners on!! Damn it.
2007-07-15 11:58:02
80.   Mattpat11
Can you release a player in the middle of a game?
2007-07-15 11:58:49
81.   Jim Dean
Fill in the blank:

You know your catcher sucks when...

Here I'll start:

the other catcher is stealing bases off of him.

2007-07-15 11:58:55
82.   williamnyy23
MEMO to Cashman...Nieves is the worst player to ever wear pinstripes. Please stop insulting the entire fan base by allowing him to masquerade as a catcher.
2007-07-15 11:59:43
83.   51cq24
75 after the next 25 years, come back and let us know how it went
2007-07-15 11:59:44
84.   Mattpat11
81

2. The team congratulates him when he hits the ball in the air.

2007-07-15 12:00:13
85.   williamnyy23
81 I think this puts Nieves in perspective. Wil Nieves has a 26 OPS+...he would be a significant upgrade over Nieves.
2007-07-15 12:00:29
86.   williamnyy23
Wow...that's two tough guys.
2007-07-15 12:00:40
87.   Mattpat11
Nieves is the biggest embarrassment to the uniform I've ever seen
2007-07-15 12:01:11
88.   Mattpat11
The noise of that collision is what scared me more than anything
2007-07-15 12:01:19
89.   williamnyy23
85 Make that...Dioner Navarro has a 26 OPS+...he would be a significant upgrade over Nieves.
2007-07-15 12:01:32
90.   matt nokes forever
Andy is so much tougher than Minky... wow, what a collision...
2007-07-15 12:02:14
91.   Jim Dean
78 The going was tough my entire childhood - from my first game in person in 1982 to 1993.

That said, it's a bit different when I torture myself from November on and still have to look at Mghdfkg, Cairo, and Nieves to say nothing of Torre and Cashman.

But the Brewers and Padres at least allow me to have a NL team without the bigamy getting too bad.

2007-07-15 12:02:17
92.   Mattpat11
Mussina's actually thrown less pitches than I thought.
2007-07-15 12:02:29
93.   monkeypants
Maybe Donnie Baseball needs to hold some special coaching sessions on how not to get killed playing 1B?
2007-07-15 12:02:42
94.   Mattpat11
What a strange play.
2007-07-15 12:02:43
95.   williamnyy23
Let's get a rally started...oh wait, Cano, Phillips and Nieves. Maybe not.
2007-07-15 12:02:52
96.   Bob Timmermann
85
I think you meant Navarro is at 26 OPS+. It's 50 points higher than Nieves.

There's a guy at Dodger Thoughts who thinks that Dioner Navarro should still be the Dodgers backup catcher and considers his trade to be one of the Dodgers worst mistakes.

2007-07-15 12:04:23
97.   williamnyy23
91 I don't know...guys like Espinoza, Salas and Maas could give those guys a run for the money. Only rats jump ship.
2007-07-15 12:05:20
98.   Jim Dean
95 Ha!

On any decent team, Cano would be a great #9 hitter.

2007-07-15 12:06:21
99.   Mattpat11
97 I'm going to bitch about this shitty team every game, but ultimately, I'm going to come back every day and hope against they somehow figure it out.

I could never just ditch this team.

2007-07-15 12:06:38
100.   williamnyy23
98 Maybe that's all he is going to be?
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-07-15 12:06:39
101.   monkeypants
97 No doubt about it. The c. 1990 version was much bleaker than the current crew. At least this team has a few individuals playing at a high level. Those late 80s/early 90s teams were awful at just about every roster spot.
2007-07-15 12:07:11
102.   Jim Dean
97 Ah but I didn't know back then what I was in for in November.

And who said anything about jumping ship?

I'm just going to enjoy the company of a mistress.

2007-07-15 12:07:15
103.   Hocakes
I think the combo of Mussina and Nieves is so effective that the Yanks should let them stay together next season...

....in an independent league.

2007-07-15 12:07:19
104.   OldYanksFan
75 The Brewers or the Padres are both REALLY good choices. We'll really miss you and your wonderful attitude. Good luck. Send me a Christmas card.
2007-07-15 12:07:25
105.   williamnyy23
100 This is all you need to know about Cano. The last four pitches weren't close, but Cano is hacking away.
2007-07-15 12:07:45
106.   Mattpat11
100 I think you could do worse than your number nine hitter batting like this from second.
2007-07-15 12:09:29
107.   williamnyy23
106 You could...but I was hoping Cano would be an All Star, not a good #9 hitter (especially on a team that already has a couple of bad #9 hitters).
2007-07-15 12:09:30
108.   Mattpat11
Wow. Upton was really going balls to the wall for that one, huh?

I'll take it.

2007-07-15 12:10:05
109.   monkeypants
105 Lots of fouls; ended up with a single. Quality AB!
2007-07-15 12:10:07
110.   Mattpat11
Jackson is at 70 pitches.
2007-07-15 12:10:31
111.   OldYanksFan
99 "I'm going to bitch about this shitty team every game..."
Gee Matt, thanks so much for giving me something to look forward to.
2007-07-15 12:11:27
112.   Mattpat11
111 Well, I could pretend that things are going well, but that would be silly.
2007-07-15 12:11:30
113.   williamnyy23
109 That's not my definition of a quality AB. Fouling off pitches way out of the zone and then fisting a blooper doesn't give me confidence for his next AB.
2007-07-15 12:11:45
114.   williamnyy23
why!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2007-07-15 12:11:55
115.   Jim Dean
104 Aw, you're just saying that! (as he pushes me out the door...)
2007-07-15 12:12:14
116.   Mattpat11
That was ball four Andy
2007-07-15 12:12:51
117.   Mattpat11
WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Andy, I was wrong.

2007-07-15 12:13:05
118.   williamnyy23
114 Honestly, why is Phillips even thinking swing. I think that has to come from Joe. This isn't Wade Boggs we are talking about. It wound up working out, but Phillips' not having the patience to lay-off that 3-1 is exactly what's wrong with this team.
2007-07-15 12:13:06
119.   Mattpat11
Aw crap. Here comes Wil.
2007-07-15 12:13:26
120.   monkeypants
Yeah Andy Phillips!!

The TB defense giveth, and taketh away...

2007-07-15 12:14:04
121.   JL25and3
That might be the worst play I've ever seen an outfielder make - and I saw Leyritz's error in the Hawkins no-hitter.
2007-07-15 12:14:38
122.   Mattpat11
Nieves is such a buzzkill
2007-07-15 12:14:48
123.   monkeypants
118 Oh Christ--it's a 3-1 count, ya'know, a hitters count. If he took a pitch and it was called a strike you'd bitch about that.
2007-07-15 12:15:11
124.   JL25and3
118 I hope weepingforbrunnhilde is watching. This game is a great argument for the "quality at-bat."
2007-07-15 12:15:29
125.   weeping for brunnhilde
I didn't see Andy Phillips' whole ab, but I did see that he swung at ball four.

I'm glad he got a hit, but that would be an example of a non-quality ab that happened to end well.

2007-07-15 12:15:32
126.   matt nokes forever
Holy Shit!!!
2007-07-15 12:15:45
127.   JL25and3
123 No, not in this case. Not with Edwin Jackson pitching and Andy Phillips hitting.
2007-07-15 12:15:53
128.   Mattpat11
Holy crap!
2007-07-15 12:15:56
129.   Jim Dean
Holy Crap!
2007-07-15 12:16:11
130.   Jim Dean
First XBH of the season!
2007-07-15 12:16:22
131.   OldYanksFan
HA!
2007-07-15 12:16:47
132.   monkeypants
Something weird is going on this inning. I think the comish needs to investigating gambling or poit chaving or something.
2007-07-15 12:17:01
133.   Mattpat11
123 In this case, with Jackson wild all inning and the tiny strikezone, you can afford to take.
2007-07-15 12:17:05
134.   williamnyy23
123 Did you see the pitch? It almost bounced. The fact that you would swing at a 3-1 that isn't in your zone speaks volumes. If you have no problem with Phillips' appraoch in that AB, we'll, then we have different philosophies.
2007-07-15 12:17:15
135.   OldYanksFan
Do I smell a Silver Slugger award?
2007-07-15 12:17:43
136.   Mattpat11
130 5th of his career.
2007-07-15 12:18:05
137.   monkeypants
127 Whatever. He's hit the ball hard thre times today, all off the same pitcher. I'm not going to give him the take all the way sign just to get to Nieves.
2007-07-15 12:18:33
138.   Mattpat11
Has Nieves ever been in second base with us?
2007-07-15 12:18:44
139.   OldYanksFan
JD better let his hair grow out. This a definitely the Samson syndrome.
2007-07-15 12:19:24
140.   matt nokes forever
HA!!!!!!! Taking a page out of the Nieve's Guide to Hitting!
2007-07-15 12:19:43
141.   Mattpat11
YAY!

Now Mussina will give it might back.

2007-07-15 12:19:45
142.   Jim Dean
Derek Jeter!
2007-07-15 12:20:13
143.   Jim Dean
Pull Mussina now!
2007-07-15 12:20:23
144.   williamnyy23
137 The reason he should get a take is because he has shown a lack of discipline, made evident by whiffing at a ball in the dirt on a 3-1. If you have an accomplished hitter who knows how to zone a pitch, you can leave him on his own. Phillips hasn't earned that right.
2007-07-15 12:20:34
145.   matt nokes forever
We hit for the cycle this inning. Crap, when was the last time that happened?
2007-07-15 12:20:42
146.   monkeypants
134 What game are you watching? It dove out of the zone because it was tough breaking pitch. This may come as a surprise, but major league pitchers, even bad ones, do try to fool the batter and get him out. Phillips was fooled; it's not like he's going up there aiming to swing at balls in the dirt.

Once again, bad result (swing and miss) is turned into moralizing and dubious analysis of process.

2007-07-15 12:21:27
147.   Jim Dean
BTW: SO much better listening to the other teams' announcers. It's added about three years to my life. And I don't have to figure out what's going on for myself.
2007-07-15 12:21:29
148.   Mattpat11
146 It was never in the zone.
2007-07-15 12:22:28
149.   monkeypants
143 Sadly, this is the "he has to stay in to try to get the win" time of the game. Of course, Mussina being teh delicate flower that he is, he'll probably lose whatever effectiveness he's had today because he had to sit too long.

Damn offense, scoring too much at once.

2007-07-15 12:22:58
150.   OldYanksFan
"moralizing and dubious analysis..."
Here? At the Banter? Nahhhhhhhh.
You're kidding.. right?
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-07-15 12:23:09
151.   Peter
138 Nieves actually scored 3 runs for the Yanks this year (a career high). It was, however, his first xbh since 2002 with the Padres.
2007-07-15 12:23:27
152.   monkeypants
148 You're right.
2007-07-15 12:23:37
153.   matt nokes forever
Whoever said that this crowd goes all Sterling on every fly ball couldn't have been more right... If I was just listening and not watching, I would have thought Abreu's ball landed somewhere in the top tier, instead of just the warning track in center.
2007-07-15 12:23:46
154.   williamnyy23
146 That pitch didn't dive...it started low and stayed low. At 3-1 against a pitcher, a hitter needs to zone a fastball in the strike zone. If you think that pitch was anywhere near the zone, then I guess I can't argue.
2007-07-15 12:24:26
155.   Mattpat11
How sad is it when a real case can be made for Wil Nieves having the hardest hit ball in the inning?
2007-07-15 12:25:38
156.   51cq24
146 it was a 94 mph fastball that was way down the whole way. but swinging at it is phillips' fault, not the bench's.
2007-07-15 12:25:44
157.   monkeypants
See. that's the problem with this team--A-Rod swinging at that pitch off the plate. Doesn't he know that if he misses that pitch with two strikes, that it's an out? That must have come from the bench. I don't know why Torre, or Cashman, doesn't coach these guys better and teach them NOT to miss the ball if they're going to swing. Fucking Yankees.
2007-07-15 12:25:54
158.   Mattpat11
Eh. Here we go.
2007-07-15 12:26:21
159.   williamnyy23
154 Or a curve, slider, etc...the point is balls that almost bounce aren't what one should be looking for at 3-1.
2007-07-15 12:27:15
160.   51cq24
155 when he hits the ball hard, not sad at all. but jeter hit a home run.
2007-07-15 12:27:20
161.   williamnyy23
157 Facile rebuttal. If you can't see the difference between protecting on 0-2 and being in the driver's seat at 3-1, then this issue is probably too deep any way.
2007-07-15 12:28:12
162.   monkeypants
156 I don't know, I swear my feed on MLB.tv said 84 MPH, and it sure looked like it dropped to me. Maybe I'm wrong--there was no replay.

You're all right, though, that swinging and missing on a pitch that clearly fooled him does reveal poor fundamentals and probably moral failing on Phillip's part.

2007-07-15 12:28:14
163.   Mattpat11
160 I'll argue that the Nieves double may have been hit harder than the HR.
2007-07-15 12:28:47
164.   Mattpat11
Cano scares the hell out of me in the field.
2007-07-15 12:30:25
165.   OldYanksFan
157 I KNOW! What kind of fucking player swings and misses? I blame ARod for being a stupid and lousey player, Torre for playing a stupid and lousey player, and most of all, Cashman for getting a stupid and lousey player. Good thing he's playing on a stupid and lousey team.

Fun sharing these games with all these brilliant and optimistic guys, eh?

2007-07-15 12:30:29
166.   monkeypants
161 It's not a rebuttal per se. I'm just trying to join in on the pitch-by-pitch processural analysis of the game. If you look at old threads, you'll see that I used to focus on outcome, not process, because (I used to argue) it is more difficult to analize process objectively. I'm coming around though.
2007-07-15 12:31:22
167.   williamnyy23
164 I actually think Cano's glove has been carrying his bat all year. Even if Cano doesn't learn a little patience, I think his defense and league averagish at would still make him a useful player.
2007-07-15 12:31:35
168.   Mattpat11
166 Well, the outcome was a flyball that got butchered like nothing I've seen in years.
2007-07-15 12:31:58
169.   OldYanksFan
162 It's well known that Phillips hangs with loose women and farm animals.
2007-07-15 12:32:10
170.   monkeypants
165 Sweet lord, is this the first time we've agreed?

; )

2007-07-15 12:32:52
171.   Mattpat11
167 Its not that he's bad

He's just very nonchalant out there

2007-07-15 12:33:20
172.   monkeypants
168 That Melky play earlier this year was comparable. ; )
2007-07-15 12:33:56
173.   51cq24
162 i didnt say or imply moral failing. i think he just swung and missed when he should have held up.
2007-07-15 12:34:43
174.   williamnyy23
171 Agreed on that point, but after some time, I've grown to trust him.
2007-07-15 12:34:47
175.   Mattpat11
In that Phillips AB, I don't think you can just dismiss the count or the way Jackson was pitching in both that AB and the Cano AB.
2007-07-15 12:35:48
176.   OldYanksFan
That error not withstanding, that kid at SS seems to be a decent player. TB has a lot of good young talent.
2007-07-15 12:35:59
177.   Max
121 Upton obviously didn't look good lunging at that ball, but was it really total incompetence? It looked like the ball took a weird hook really late...almost like Upton got too good of a jump, then got blindsided by the ball swerving behind him.

But I'm happy to be corrected and told how the ball should have been played.

2007-07-15 12:37:43
178.   51cq24
177 it looked like it was tailing towards right field and then stopped tailing. but i dont think a ball can actually change direction enough to excuse totally missing it in the outfield.
2007-07-15 12:38:41
179.   williamnyy23
177 All series, Upton has looked a little shaky in centerfield. He is learning the position after all, so you can't kill him for the learning curve.
2007-07-15 12:38:44
180.   Mattpat11
177 I think it was an example of an infielder who isn't very good as reading fly balls. He completely overran it. Most outfielders seem to anticipate the arcs of flyballs better than that.
2007-07-15 12:40:03
181.   Mattpat11
Sportsline lists Mussina as 76 pitches through five. How can that possibly be? Wasn't he at 75 early last inning?
2007-07-15 12:40:36
182.   williamnyy23
LOL...tough day for Andy and his pitch selection.
2007-07-15 12:40:42
183.   monkeypants
175 OK, I overstated the case. I'm not saying one should dismiss the count or situation. But I do think that the criticism may have been a little too dramatic ("How can he possibly swing at that point? It must be the bench calling that swing" type of criticisms). Phillips is what he is, a marginal AAAA/MLB type player. The reason he is such a player is precisely because he is fooled, or overanxious, or less disciplined, or whatever than better players.

As for the situation, I personally would rather Phillips swing more freely there, then try to work a walk for Nieves (who would have proven me wrong anayway).

As for the moralizing, I misread the tone of the various criticisms. But sometimes the sheer incredulity expressed in some posts registers as a sort of moralizing ("How could X even think to do Y in Z situation?").

2007-07-15 12:40:52
184.   Mattpat11
That wasn't a strike three innings ago.
2007-07-15 12:41:35
185.   OldYanksFan
175 Tell me, with 25 players a team, 30 teams, each playing 162 games... have you ever seen a player swing at a ball out of the strike zone? More then once? Have you ever seen a really good player swing at a ball out of the strike zone?

It's frustating, but it seems to me to happen a lot. Sometimes against the Yankees. Sometime even against Mo. And when that happens, we believe it's because Mo is a great pitcher.

Andy swung at a ball. Big fucking deal.
Ooops! He just forgot to swing at a strike!
What an amazing game!

2007-07-15 12:42:52
186.   matt nokes forever
Wouldn't want to get that first multi-hit game as a Yankee, now would we Wil... Thanks for comin' out.
2007-07-15 12:42:54
187.   monkeypants
The bottom of the order giveth, and it taketh away...
2007-07-15 12:43:15
188.   Mattpat11
183 I think people were shocked more because we thought it was a ball right out of his hand. In my case anyway, its not like he even swung at a close pitch. I expected it to bounce.
2007-07-15 12:43:17
189.   williamnyy23
186 He already has one...off of John Lackey no less!
2007-07-15 12:43:39
190.   Mattpat11
[186[ I'm almost positive he has a multi hit game this year
2007-07-15 12:44:25
191.   Yankees Brasil
Glad to see tha Nieves is back to normal
2007-07-15 12:45:00
192.   matt nokes forever
189 Was Lackey throwing underhanded?
2007-07-15 12:45:17
193.   williamnyy23
Mussina really has to control himself now...Bucknor is awful and it's not going to change.
2007-07-15 12:46:14
194.   Max
178 179 180 Thanks.

The Rays TV announcers were trying to defend Upton and claimed the ball did something strange (using the TV replay to make their "case"), but obviously no one's going to be able to trace the arc of a ball on MLB.TV. A shaky fielder over-running the ball sounds more plausible.

2007-07-15 12:46:52
195.   Jim Dean
Melky!
2007-07-15 12:46:57
196.   matt nokes forever
That'll teach Ty Cobbington to try and run on the Melk-man... what a throw...
2007-07-15 12:47:06
197.   Mattpat11
We're starting to get the calls.
2007-07-15 12:47:10
198.   williamnyy23
192 Nope...overhand...Nieves alsu worked out a walk as well. It was easily his best day in the majors.
2007-07-15 12:47:36
199.   monkeypants
Cripes--A Melky OF Arm highlight reel today!
2007-07-15 12:47:37
200.   Mattpat11
196 You call him Ty Cobbington too?
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-07-15 12:47:52
201.   williamnyy23
Man it seems like Wiggington is an automatic hit against the Yankees.
2007-07-15 12:48:00
202.   matt nokes forever
198 He should have hung them up immediately after that game... it was obviously god's version of a parting gift.
2007-07-15 12:48:29
203.   matt nokes forever
200 Yeah, who the hell else is named Ty?
2007-07-15 12:49:15
204.   Mattpat11
After all that, Mike Mussina has a quality start.

That might be stretching the boundaries of the term, but it fits.

2007-07-15 12:49:43
205.   OldYanksFan
I hope JD never plays CF again.
2007-07-15 12:50:16
206.   williamnyy23
204 It wasn't pretty, but you have to give him credit for not collapsing. On more than a few occassions, it looked like he was ready to implode.
2007-07-15 12:50:22
207.   Mattpat11
203 Me and my father always called him Ty Cobbington because someone somewhere told him he played baseball like a crappy Pete Rose.
2007-07-15 12:51:27
208.   Mattpat11
207 *That should read "someone somewhere told him he was good and he played baseball like a crappy Pete Rose."
2007-07-15 12:52:18
209.   Mattpat11
208 Damnit that makes no sense either. He thinks he's really good and I don't so i made a funny pun on his name using a good baseball player instead.
2007-07-15 12:52:46
210.   Mattpat11
Nothing more exciting than the prospects of an Igawa start.
2007-07-15 12:52:58
211.   51cq24
194 i think a case could be made because the ball did clearly do something weird. but if the ball had been caught no one would have pointed it out.
2007-07-15 12:53:49
212.   Hocakes
Litsch is starting to falter against the Sox, that dude looks like Corky in his Gameday pic; very happy.
2007-07-15 12:54:41
213.   Yankees Brasil
Josh Towers against Key Igawa... it's going to be ugly
2007-07-15 12:54:58
214.   Mattpat11
194 I think it only appeared that he did something weird because he overran it. I suspect if he would have ran to the spot where it landed, it would have looked fairly routine.
2007-07-15 12:56:16
215.   Mattpat11
Who pitches the seventh?
2007-07-15 12:56:47
216.   matt nokes forever
209 That's kinda the same direction I went in... but it was more useful when he was busy sucking it up for the Metropolitans a few years back.

And for the record, there is nothing more important the prospects of an Igawa (7+ era) vs. Towers (5+ era) matchup... Yipppeee!

2007-07-15 12:58:09
217.   monkeypants
214 To be honest, the balll looked like it travelled pretty straight (or perhaps better, the arc was uninterrupted), despite what the Rays announcers tried to show by drawing on the replay. I think he just misjudged the arc of the ball or the initial speed of the ball off the bat, ran to the spot, and then saw he'd overrun it.
2007-07-15 12:59:14
218.   williamnyy23
215 Villone, which is also who I had in mind. So, if this doesn't work out, I'm just as bad as Joe.
2007-07-15 13:00:02
219.   monkeypants
Villone's numbers didn't actually look that bad. The mind plays tricks.
2007-07-15 13:01:50
220.   Jim Dean
I think if I was a Rays fan I'd be very upset that Iwamura is batting leadoff with guys like Crawford and Upton on the team.
2007-07-15 13:01:52
221.   williamnyy23
219 He's thrown well lately and I really dont trust anyone else, so I would exactly call it a vote of confidence.
2007-07-15 13:02:26
222.   williamnyy23
220 Iwamure has shown a very good ability to get on base. I think it's a pretty good selection.
2007-07-15 13:02:52
223.   Jim Dean
215 What's really sad is that Villone is now thought of by Torre as the 7th inning guy - he's actually said so.
2007-07-15 13:02:56
224.   matt nokes forever
221 On the bright side, its Viscaino up in the pen (can't believe I actually said that) instead of Kyle.
2007-07-15 13:03:18
225.   OldYanksFan
Anyone else think Ty was safe at 2nd on that play where he was called out?
2007-07-15 13:03:54
226.   Mattpat11
YEAH!
2007-07-15 13:04:11
227.   williamnyy23
That's a spectacular double play. Arod has really put it all together.
2007-07-15 13:04:45
228.   williamnyy23
That's a spectacular double play. Arod has really put it all together.
2007-07-15 13:04:55
229.   mehmattski
225 Nah, Cano's tag got Ty on the lead foot on the way by.
2007-07-15 13:06:01
230.   51cq24
225 yeah but it was hard to tell because they didnt have a perfect angle
2007-07-15 13:09:52
231.   matt nokes forever
Thank you for the giant "Fuck You," Carlos Pena... Thanks...

Oh, and by the way, Villone, you and your hanging sliders suck ass.

2007-07-15 13:10:55
232.   williamnyy23
That's what bad bullpens do.
2007-07-15 13:13:14
233.   Mattpat11
Carlos Pena broke the Banter
2007-07-15 13:14:49
234.   monkeypants
OK boys (and girls). Would you bunt Matsui w/ A-Rod on second?
2007-07-15 13:14:53
235.   matt nokes forever
Go, A-God, Go!
2007-07-15 13:15:34
236.   matt nokes forever
233 Thought that was just my computer going ape-shit... fucking Pena.
2007-07-15 13:15:39
237.   Jim Dean
222 Fair enough, but he's third on the team behind Pena and Upton. And Harris is just behind him with the better average.

Upton would be a phenomenal leadoff guy, especially if the alternative is batting him 6th.

Meanwhile, Pena with 3 RBI's today. At least Mhgjkd is almost back.

2007-07-15 13:16:04
238.   randym77
Well, that must have been sweet for Pena.

Remember when Torre said he wasn't even checking to see how Pena was doing in Columbus?

2007-07-15 13:16:07
239.   williamnyy23
The reason this is a .500 team is because the offense can't outhit the bullpen, which would explain the poor record in close games. I'm not sure when, but at some point guys like Edwar and Britton have to be given a chance to see what they can do.
2007-07-15 13:16:36
240.   Mattpat11
As I said the other night, there's no excuse for not hitting Fossum.
2007-07-15 13:16:49
241.   Vandelay Industries
238

Of course he wasn't. He's not over 30!

2007-07-15 13:17:19
242.   williamnyy23
237 Upton can really slug though. I'd rather have him batting behind guys who can get on base.
2007-07-15 13:17:25
243.   Mattpat11
So, lead off double followed by a non run scoring single. What whacky way will be not score?

I say pop up and double play.

2007-07-15 13:17:25
244.   matt nokes forever
Fly ball, Melk, fly ball... c'mon... don't dip and jack... just get it in the air...
2007-07-15 13:18:08
245.   monkeypants
234 And the answer would be no.
2007-07-15 13:18:24
246.   williamnyy23
Come on Melky...dont revert to the jumpy Melky with men on base.
2007-07-15 13:18:28
247.   Jim Dean
238 Yup.

239 But why? They have Villone, Proctor, Myers, Farnsworth, and Vizcaino.

2007-07-15 13:18:40
248.   bobtaco
Why is Farns up and not Edwar? Farns pitched yesterday. He is not like Macaroni and Cheese, he sucks on the second day! Why Joe why?
2007-07-15 13:18:44
249.   SpoonG91
Weak, weak at bat
2007-07-15 13:18:57
250.   Vandelay Industries
244

You mean the master Joe Torre won't have him bunting in the 6th, with a one run lead and the bottom of the order on deck?

Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2007-07-15 13:19:02
251.   williamnyy23
246 Crap.
2007-07-15 13:19:12
252.   Mattpat11
I'll amend my prediction to strikeout, pop up and fly ball.
2007-07-15 13:19:22
253.   SpoonG91
Just lift one Cano!
2007-07-15 13:19:55
254.   Mattpat11
I like cold mac and cheese.
2007-07-15 13:19:57
255.   Jim Dean
242 If they really believed that he'd be hitting 3rd.
2007-07-15 13:19:58
256.   williamnyy23
0-2 to Cano...man I have a horrible feeling.
2007-07-15 13:20:42
257.   Vandelay Industries
Robbie gets it done!
2007-07-15 13:20:45
258.   SpoonG91
Looked gone off the bat.
2007-07-15 13:20:50
259.   matt nokes forever
Robbie makes out better than anyone else on this ball club...
2007-07-15 13:20:51
260.   bobtaco
252 Ha, i thought that was going to be the case, glad to be wrong.
2007-07-15 13:21:14
261.   Mattpat11
260 As am I
2007-07-15 13:21:32
262.   Jim Dean
Hey, if this thing stays tied, at least we'll see Edwar before Mo.
2007-07-15 13:21:32
263.   williamnyy23
255 That's your argument right there.
2007-07-15 13:22:42
264.   Vandelay Industries
262

Don't count on it.

2007-07-15 13:23:16
265.   JL25and3
OK, this may sound strange but:

Listen to the AFLAC ads (they just played the one with Yogi). I'm pretty sure they've redubbed them, and that's no longer Gilbert Gottfried's voice as the duck.

2007-07-15 13:23:18
266.   bobtaco
262 Farns will blow it first.
2007-07-15 13:23:30
267.   Vandelay Industries
262

I think Joe would rather sign Feller and have him pitch the ninth.

2007-07-15 13:23:31
268.   51cq24
262 are you joking? it can't stay tied long enough to get either in the game.
2007-07-15 13:23:39
269.   williamnyy23
Off the cuff, I think the D-rays best lineup would be Iwamura, Harris, Upton, Pena, Young, Crawford and so on.
2007-07-15 13:24:02
270.   Mattpat11
Uh Oh. Its the Devil Rays closer.
2007-07-15 13:24:09
271.   bobtaco
YES!
2007-07-15 13:24:11
272.   Vandelay Industries
Andy Phillips! Yikes!
2007-07-15 13:24:14
273.   51cq24
huh? he looked so out there
2007-07-15 13:24:41
274.   monkeypants
Andy Phillips!!
2007-07-15 13:24:49
275.   matt nokes forever
Atta boy Andy!
2007-07-15 13:25:07
276.   Mattpat11
273 Second base umpire has been making up for the homeplate umpire tonight
2007-07-15 13:25:22
277.   Jim Dean
Cool beans, okay - now Farns for one out, a hit and a walk, then we see Mo?
2007-07-15 13:25:23
278.   Vandelay Industries
Take note Joe...aggresiveness gets the runs, aggressiveness gets the calls.
2007-07-15 13:25:23
279.   matt nokes forever
Hip, hip Jorge!... I wonder what this'll do to Wil Nieves' confidence.
2007-07-15 13:25:28
280.   williamnyy23
273 He may have slid around the tag...it was close.
2007-07-15 13:25:43
281.   monkeypants
273 Throw certainly beat him, but they never showed a close replay of the slide.
2007-07-15 13:25:47
282.   bobtaco
Make 'em pay JD!
2007-07-15 13:25:55
283.   randym77
Then again, maybe Torre was right. Who needs Pena, we've got Andy Phillips.
2007-07-15 13:26:21
284.   Vandelay Industries
Walk Jorge to get to Bubba. Wait....that's not Bubba. Who is that?
2007-07-15 13:26:27
285.   51cq24
276 there's no making up for bad calls.
2007-07-15 13:27:52
286.   SpoonG91
Not Fucksworth, please, spare us.
2007-07-15 13:27:59
287.   Vandelay Industries
285

It's like basketball in that way. The Umps and refs get into the game, and the more aggressive you are, the more calls you get.

2007-07-15 13:29:13
288.   Vandelay Industries
Ruh Ruh Scooby! Big AB here.
2007-07-15 13:29:40
289.   williamnyy23
Damon seems to have so much movement at the plate. I wonder if he is going to figure it out this season (or, are the injuries still taking their toll).
2007-07-15 13:30:26
290.   matt nokes forever
Time for the real captain to give Kaptain Kombustable (warming in the pen as we speak) a little more breathing room
2007-07-15 13:30:28
291.   Vandelay Industries
289

If only I could believe its only injuries. I wish I did.

2007-07-15 13:30:36
292.   williamnyy23
Great omen...Farns is warming up and one of his pitches made home plate. I hope he is as close to the strike zone when he comes into the game.
2007-07-15 13:30:55
293.   Hocakes
Beggars Can't Be Choosers-
Remember at the beginning of the year Damon said he was disappointed at his own performance with runners in scoring position last season? Just hit, Johny, just hit.

Beckett is going deep into the game looking for his 12th win...I hope he wakes up with a hand full of blisters tomorrow.

2007-07-15 13:32:33
294.   matt nokes forever
Ha!
2007-07-15 13:32:36
295.   bobtaco
Wow. Jeter is amazing.
2007-07-15 13:32:37
296.   Vandelay Industries
What the hell just happened there?
2007-07-15 13:33:01
297.   Mattpat11
That was a strange play.
2007-07-15 13:33:11
298.   williamnyy23
What an odd call by the umpire...it looked so tentative.
2007-07-15 13:33:19
299.   Vandelay Industries
Yikes. Jeter was out.
2007-07-15 13:33:34
300.   Jim Dean
Okay, cool - now Farns for two outs, two hits and a walk before we see Mo?
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2007-07-15 13:33:44
301.   monkeypants
A couple more and maybe the game will be Farnsworthproof.
2007-07-15 13:33:47
302.   Mattpat11
293 You mean defective baseball injuries.
2007-07-15 13:33:57
303.   williamnyy23
296 Ground ball in the hole; 3B dives, pops up and double clutches before bouncing a throw that just missed getting Jeter,
2007-07-15 13:34:36
304.   Mattpat11
298 Thats his safe call. He did it on the Dioner bunt too.
2007-07-15 13:35:00
305.   Vandelay Industries
Is it selfish to want to see Edwar?
2007-07-15 13:35:07
306.   SpoonG91
Four games of Ken Singleton's play by play actually makes me thirst for Michael Kay.
2007-07-15 13:35:13
307.   matt nokes forever
301 Nothing is ever Farnsworthproofed... EVER.
2007-07-15 13:35:47
308.   williamnyy23
306 Quite the opposite for me...I love Singleton and anyone else who isn't Kay.
2007-07-15 13:36:46
309.   51cq24
306 are you kidding?
2007-07-15 13:36:56
310.   Vandelay Industries
307

But he has that really cool 1985 tribal arm band tattoo. Between him and Bruney, some woman should really accompany them to the tattoo parlor to stop them from doing something stupid.

2007-07-15 13:37:27
311.   Mattpat11
306 Oh no way. Singleton has been great. Kay is horrid. We'd have heard the Jonny Gomes story 12 times in four days, heard about DEEEEEEEEEEEP pop ups heard how Farnsworth is good because he throws 100 and heard if Singleton would have rather faced Clemens or Paul Byrd.
2007-07-15 13:37:41
312.   SpoonG91
307 True Dat.
2007-07-15 13:38:37
313.   Mattpat11
Ugh.
2007-07-15 13:38:50
314.   matt nokes forever
One batter... one blast... go fuck yourself Kyle... seriously go fuck yourself
2007-07-15 13:38:53
315.   Vandelay Industries
LOL. Yea, why give Edwar a shot when we have the 6 million dollar man?
2007-07-15 13:38:57
316.   JL25and3
308 309 I'm with you guys. I think Singleton's play-by-play is much better than Kay's - better than Singleton's color commentary, in fact.

The single best broadcast of the last few years was the game in Baltimore that Singleton had to do solo. It was superb.

2007-07-15 13:39:03
317.   Mattpat11
Krazy Kyle got lucky there.
2007-07-15 13:39:24
318.   williamnyy23
If anything, Farnsworth is consistent, just not in the good way. When I've argued that the Yankees would be better off with a different manager, these are the types of games to which I am referring.
2007-07-15 13:39:29
319.   weeping for brunnhilde
His first pitch.

How long must we suffer this man?

2007-07-15 13:39:35
320.   Vandelay Industries
314

Joe had round peg sqaure hole syndome. The 8th inning is the hole, and Farny is the peg.

2007-07-15 13:39:51
321.   Mattpat11
316 I always thought that was in Toronto. But I also loved that broadcast
2007-07-15 13:40:44
322.   williamnyy23
It's nice to see Mo jogging to the bullpen, but why would he not already be there as soon as Farnsworth is brought into the game?
2007-07-15 13:41:43
323.   Mattpat11
322 That would hurt Kyle's feelings. Remember the last time we pulled him for Rivera?
2007-07-15 13:41:50
324.   Vandelay Industries
321

Hey, I live in LA now. Just be happy you don't have to suffer with Vin Scully and his anecdotes about every little stupid fucking detail of every player's life, and continual shots of little girls. I do often wonder why so many shots of the tots. Maybe Vin, umm......

2007-07-15 13:42:16
325.   williamnyy23
That's inexusable. If they lose this game, it's a Joe Torre loss. Why he keeps beating the team and its fans' heads against the wall with Farnsworth is beyond me.
2007-07-15 13:42:34
326.   Yankees Brasil
Fucking Farnshit
2007-07-15 13:42:47
327.   matt nokes forever
TY WIGGINGTON IS 4 FOR 4.... There is no fucking excuse for that... NO EXCUSE... Kyle becomes more and more pathetic every time he trots out to the mound... What a ridiculous waste of money and god-given natural talent
2007-07-15 13:42:48
328.   Jim Dean
Walk then Mo?
2007-07-15 13:42:52
329.   Ravenscar
OK, I gave up my waiver position to get Edwar Ramirez. Why does Torre hate me so much? Or is it just himself that he hates, to keep doing this?
2007-07-15 13:43:07
330.   bartap74
Phillips just saved Farnsworth's ass!
2007-07-15 13:43:14
331.   Vandelay Industries
Round Peg! Sqaure HOLE JOE!

I know OldYanksFan thinks Joe's shit has more baseball knowledeg that I do, but Kyle Farnsworth is not the 8th inning guy. Does he need a road map to tell him that?

2007-07-15 13:43:23
332.   3rd gen yankee fan
Go Rays!
2007-07-15 13:43:28
333.   Mattpat11
325 I like to hang all Farnsworth disasters om Cashman.

Andy just saved Farnsworth's useless ass.

2007-07-15 13:43:51
334.   randym77
Andy earning his paycheck today.
2007-07-15 13:43:52
335.   Jim Dean
Wow - game saved by Andy.
2007-07-15 13:44:06
336.   williamnyy23
MEMO to Joe: Farnsworth did not get out of that inning. Last night, he didn't get of the inning either (Upton was CS). Farnsworth has failed in back to back outing. He isn't an 8th inning man. If you want to salvage this season, please break from the script and actually manage the players you have!
2007-07-15 13:44:07
337.   weeping for brunnhilde
Last night it was Jorgie saving Farns' bacon.

Now it's Phillips.

Cut this man.

Now.

Cut him from the baseball team.

I don't want to see him cast another pitch.

Ever.

Not for us, not against us, I just want to forget he ever existed.

2007-07-15 13:44:13
338.   rabid stan
Andy Baseball.
2007-07-15 13:44:20
339.   Ravenscar
324 - I know somebody always hates somebody, but if you're coming from NY broadcasters and hate Vin, there's no helping you.
2007-07-15 13:44:54
340.   matt nokes forever
Who does Andy Phillips think he is? Makla;jsdf;klasdlkf?

What a play... wow...

2007-07-15 13:45:11
341.   weeping for brunnhilde
322 No kidding!

If you're willing to use him in the 8th, be willing to use him in the 8th, before the game's lost, not after.

For Christ's sake.

2007-07-15 13:45:20
342.   Mattpat11
337 Getting rid of him for whatever would really be addition by subtraction at this point.
2007-07-15 13:45:38
343.   williamnyy23
333 They can share the wealth...Torre doesn't always play the guys Cashman gets him.
2007-07-15 13:45:46
344.   nemecizer
I think we should trade the Farnswacker for a pile of fresh dirt and an old ball. But we might not get that much.

Can we just give him away?

2007-07-15 13:46:14
345.   Yankees Brasil
The sad thing about all that is that in 2 or 3 days we are going to see Farnsworth again pitching the 8th, just because he "did not blow the game" (he tried)
2007-07-15 13:46:14
346.   Mattpat11
343 I'll accept that.
2007-07-15 13:46:45
347.   Vandelay Industries
339

I don't hate him. I mean, I guess he is in many ways a function of the fans out here. It is the only stadium I have ever been in where I was screamed at for standing up and cheering for the home team down by 1 with runners at third and second with one out in the ninth. I was obstructing some poor fat Dodger fan's view.

2007-07-15 13:47:07
348.   3rd gen yankee fan
For some reason my bf always decides to turn to the Yanks game during the 8th inning. Nope. Don't want to see it. It's less painful to follow through the box score. Never want to see friggin Farnsworth again.
2007-07-15 13:48:08
349.   randym77
I love Vin. And his player anecdotes.

Dunno about the shots of little girls, but I seriously doubt that's Scully's doing. He's not a cameraman, and he doesn't run the video board.

2007-07-15 13:48:54
350.   williamnyy23
1) Why does Farnsworth pitch in the highest leverage situations of all relievers(including Mo)?

2) Why does Chris Britton toil in the minors while guys like Myers serve no use?

3) Why isn't Nieves released and replaced with anyone?

These are three simple questions that shouldn't exist for this team. The solutions are simple, but nothing gets done. Why?

Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2007-07-15 13:49:15
351.   Vandelay Industries
Is it just me or would Don Zimmer be giving Joe some real constructice advice about Farny? Maybe Donnie does too, but for some reason, Joe hasn't listened to either Girardi or Donnie. But yet, Zimmer's word was gospel.
2007-07-15 13:50:16
352.   Mattpat11
350 Wouldn't want to hurt anyone's feelings.
2007-07-15 13:50:49
353.   williamnyy23
349 I love Scully too...I always opt for Dodger games on the satellite when he is in the booth. Maybe it's because I always think of "little roller up along first...behind the baaaggg! Get's through Buckener, here comes Knight and the Met's win it!"
2007-07-15 13:50:59
354.   Vandelay Industries
349

Did you know that Reuter has a barn/wood shed where he hangs out with his buddies and teammates? Sheesh. Scully is awful. But like I said, the fans know less about baseball than an old shoe, so he has to play to his audience.

2007-07-15 13:51:14
355.   51cq24
347 i've been yelled at by a fat guy in the upper deck here, but not in the same situation. i was actually standing up while cano was rounding the bases after hitting a go ahead home run in 05.
2007-07-15 13:51:16
356.   Jim Dean
350 What? Myers was going to pitch to Iwamura last inning!
2007-07-15 13:52:05
357.   Vandelay Industries
353

That being said. Would I take Scully over McCarver, umm, oh hell yes!

2007-07-15 13:52:49
358.   williamnyy23
From Pete Abe:
UPDATE, 4:35 p.m.: I'd love to see a stat for beating out a grounder with the bases loaded and two outs in a close game. Derek Jeter has to be the all-time record holder.

XX
Isn't that damning with aint praise? Is Abe saying that when Jeter gets up with the baseloaded in a close game, he usually hits a weak ground ball?

2007-07-15 13:53:25
359.   Vandelay Industries
356

Roung peg......square hole. Joe should name his book about managing that.

2007-07-15 13:53:29
360.   Mattpat11
A-Rod rules.
2007-07-15 13:53:46
361.   weeping for brunnhilde
Oh my God!

Alex!

That was (if you'll pardon the expression) Jeterian.

What amazing instincts.

2007-07-15 13:54:56
362.   williamnyy23
Damn it...I have an awful feeling about this game.
2007-07-15 13:55:00
363.   randym77
354 Better than hearing the same damn story a dozen times from Kay.
2007-07-15 13:55:03
364.   Vandelay Industries
Stupid question. I think I know the answer. But did Cashman and the Yankees refuse to negotiate with Mo, or was it Mo's decision? It was the team, right?
2007-07-15 13:55:44
365.   Vandelay Industries
363

I'd also take Scully over Kay.

2007-07-15 13:56:39
366.   randym77
364 It was the team. Mo was not happy about it.
2007-07-15 13:57:33
367.   Eirias
WTF?
2007-07-15 13:57:54
368.   williamnyy23
Incredible...a new way to lose every game. Damn it.
2007-07-15 13:58:04
369.   51cq24
that is such fucking bullshit
2007-07-15 13:58:06
370.   Mattpat11
Ack.
2007-07-15 13:58:07
371.   Vandelay Industries
366

Thanks, that what I thought. Strange that the team would take that position with the best closer of all time, and then show weakness with Alex mid-season. Hmm. But at least Mo said he wouldn't go to the Sox.

2007-07-15 13:58:53
372.   nemecizer
What the hell just happened?
2007-07-15 13:59:06
373.   Mattpat11
371 They also took that position with the only viable catcher we have.
2007-07-15 13:59:18
374.   williamnyy23
372 Catcher's interference.
2007-07-15 13:59:31
375.   Mattpat11
372 Interference call. Borderline at best.
2007-07-15 13:59:55
376.   51cq24
371 i read that they're willing to talk to rivera and posada now too. but i also heard that posada doesn't want to talk. and supposedly neither of them were upset about the yankees changing their position since the arod situation is obviously different.
2007-07-15 14:00:15
377.   williamnyy23
375 Borderline? Crawford clearly made contact before the swing.
2007-07-15 14:00:21
378.   Vandelay Industries
Damn right its strike. Abreu had three of those called at his ankles!
2007-07-15 14:00:38
379.   Mattpat11
Joe West might be the most facially recognizable umpire ever
2007-07-15 14:01:28
380.   51cq24
375 borderline because really his swing interfered with posada catching the ball, and because he clearly could not have hit that ball.
2007-07-15 14:01:29
381.   nemecizer
Nice! Mo!
2007-07-15 14:01:49
382.   Vandelay Industries
376

I wonder why Jorge doesnt want to talk. Does he want to feel out the market? Or has the atmosphere changed, and he might not want to stay around?

2007-07-15 14:02:12
383.   Mattpat11
Its silly to ask a question like this, but would it have been better to let Iwamura take third and go for Crawford so he's not a distraction off second?
2007-07-15 14:02:36
384.   williamnyy23
380 I think the rule is pretty strict...if the bats makes contact goign forward, it's interference. It doesn't matter if the ball was hittable.
2007-07-15 14:02:52
385.   Mattpat11
382 Says he wants to test free agency

380 Exactly.

2007-07-15 14:02:54
386.   Jim Dean
Boston lost, at least.

2-1.

2007-07-15 14:03:17
387.   williamnyy23
383 I'm sure Mo isn't distracted at all.
2007-07-15 14:03:20
388.   51cq24
382 he says he's excited about becoming a free agent for the first time ever. i don't know if that actually means anything though.
2007-07-15 14:03:36
389.   Mattpat11
387 I also forgot it was a lefty batter coming up
2007-07-15 14:03:44
390.   Jim Dean
383 No - not better.
2007-07-15 14:03:54
391.   Vandelay Industries
385

Thats not good news, on so many levels.

2007-07-15 14:04:41
392.   Mattpat11
Phillips struck out on that pitch today
2007-07-15 14:04:48
393.   williamnyy23
whew!!! Great job my Mo.
2007-07-15 14:05:28
394.   Mattpat11
393 This inning was a showcase by Mo and A-Rod.
2007-07-15 14:05:43
395.   nemecizer
So we pick up a game on Boston. Single digits!
2007-07-15 14:05:44
396.   Jim Dean
Thank God (Mo). That series was still too close. Whatever - 9 games back.
2007-07-15 14:06:52
397.   Vandelay Industries
396

And the Cubbies have made up 5 1/2 on the Bewers in three weeks. Oh wait, they have a manager. My bad.

2007-07-15 14:07:47
398.   williamnyy23
396 Hopefully next weekend won't be so difficult. It looks like they should miss Kazmir (and maybe Shields too if they push him to Wednesday).
2007-07-15 14:08:05
399.   Jim Dean
Boston had 11 hits and scored one run.

Ha!

2007-07-15 14:09:26
400.   Vandelay Industries
But Beckett is still better than any pitcher we have. Why does that have to be true? Why o' why does it have to be true!
Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2007-07-15 14:09:59
401.   JL25and3
Jorge hasn't exactly said that he wants to become a free agent, just that he wants to wait until after the season:

"There's nothing to talk about; I'm going to wait until the offseason, anyway," Posada said. "There's no sense for me to negotiate something now when I can wait and see what happens. I want to wait."

"This is the only team I've ever known and the only team I'd like to play for," Posada said. "But if they don't want me here, I'm not going to come back here."

2007-07-15 14:11:03
402.   JL25and3
398 This is how pathetic this season has become: we're looking ahead to see if we'll have to face the top of Tampa Bay's rotation.
2007-07-15 14:12:21
403.   Vandelay Industries
401

But he's still maybe the best in the game offensively. Why wouldnt they want him back? "Now batting, your catcher, Michael Barrett?"

2007-07-15 14:12:23
404.   Jim Dean
400 I'm not convinced. He's looked very hittable against the Yanks. Indeed, even as the the Sox may have the better year, I like the way the Yanks stack up against them in a 7 game series.

Problem is: Would Torre ever give Hughes a Game 4 ahead of Moose?

2007-07-15 14:12:38
405.   JL25and3
380 The batter's swing can't interfere with the catcher. If there's contact, it's catcher's interference, period.
2007-07-15 14:14:15
406.   JL25and3
404 Would I? Yes. Would Joe? Not as long as Mussina still has a right arm.
2007-07-15 14:14:31
407.   Vandelay Industries
404

Dude! Will you come and please clean my carpet? I just spit my juice all over the place.

Joe Torre, give the pitcher who gives you the best chance to win a start late in a series? Have you gone mad? Mad I tell you.

The rotation is what it is and He'll stick with it.

2007-07-15 14:15:55
408.   Vandelay Industries
406

It is pretty sad when you get out-managed by Bob Brenly. Terry Francona I can see, he is better than Joe even with the flu, a concussion, and taking Vicodin, but Brenly?

2007-07-15 14:18:53
409.   Vandelay Industries
404

I know I've beat this dead horse before, but Game 7, in 2004, was the last day I had any faith that Joe Torre had or has the slightest clue how to manage a playoff series. I was even willing to give him Game 7 against the D'Backs. I mean Mo never breaks any bats, best to call the infield in. Square peg-round hole. Because quite frankly, he doesn't have the slightest clue.

2007-07-15 14:19:17
410.   monkeypants
"Not as long as Mussina still has a right arm..."

...and...

2007-07-15 14:21:23
411.   Mattpat11
409 I hold games five and six against Torre more than i do a mess that no one could have saved.
2007-07-15 14:21:56
412.   Mattpat11
411 *more than i do game seven
2007-07-15 14:22:16
413.   Vandelay Industries
Cubbies about to keep pace with the Brewers. Go Lou GO!
2007-07-15 14:23:10
414.   Mattpat11
I HATE this new McDonalds commerical.
2007-07-15 14:24:26
415.   Vandelay Industries
411

I agree. But it speaks to a methodology. Moose on 3 days rest. A healthy Duque at 90%, or Vasquez. And he starts Brown? The guy who no one could get through to over 162 games? It speaks to his way of doing things, and its horriblt horribly flawed.

2007-07-15 14:27:28
416.   monkeypants
410 ...a belly full of guts.
2007-07-15 14:27:29
417.   Vandelay Industries
Phillips is right on BBTN. The Yankees dont have that "bridge." All our bridges are in AAA, and one might be riding the pine.
2007-07-15 14:29:13
418.   Vandelay Industries
I need some advice. Do I actually watch the ESPY's or not?
2007-07-15 14:29:56
419.   monkeypants
417 Of course, part of the problem is the whole notion of a "bridge" in itself. Teams only need (or perceive that they need) bridges because starters only go 6 or 7 innings, and the closer only pitches in the 9th. So a good many teams, not just the Yankees, trot out inferior pitchers in high leverage situations in the 7th and 8th in a desperate attempt to find the "bridge."
2007-07-15 14:30:30
420.   monkeypants
418 Why would anyone want to watch the Espys?
2007-07-15 14:32:30
421.   Vandelay Industries
419

Is there anyone in the game, now that McKeon is gone, that doesnt use the silly pitch count, innings role garbage?

2007-07-15 14:33:51
422.   Jim Dean
415 Moose would have been on two days rest, and Duque on three days rest. It was Vazquez or Brown, and even based on Game 3 he made the wrong decision.
2007-07-15 14:34:22
423.   Mattpat11
415 Duque's arm was shot. And Vazquez was a disaster. Since the beginning of the second half, he'd given up 70 runs in 88 IP, including the playoffs, where he sucked in both playoff games he played in. It was a toss up between Brown and Vazquez, and Brown had an effective playoff game the series before.
2007-07-15 14:36:34
424.   Vandelay Industries
419

I agree with that theory. What I dont get, is that if I beleieve, as many should, that most middle relievers are interchangeable, why do the Yankees refuse to use guys like Ramirez, or give Henn and Britton aother chance? They do apear willing to give Karstens a chance. But one bad outing, and he goes back to the pine for Villone and Farny, and that is the problem.

The Dodgers really want Proctor. Why? Who knows? But do they have something we can use? Kent is in a contract year. He would make a fine fine DH, moving JD to 1B. As it appears no deal will be made for Dunn or Texiera.

2007-07-15 14:38:07
425.   Mattpat11
This is the worst commercial on television
2007-07-15 14:39:08
426.   Jim Dean
423 Vazquez was more effective in Game 3 (in relief of a Brown stain), and in Game 7 (in relief of a juicy Brown stain). The results prove the point.
2007-07-15 14:39:24
427.   Vandelay Industries
423

I dont buy that Duque was burned. He was on the roster, and had expressed verbally that he was ready to go, and I believed him. What was the worst that could happen? You already knew what Brown was going to give you. And at second best, he could have at least sent Mussina out there on three days rest. I guess there is no use in dragging this out, I just dont think Joe has a clue what to do in the platoffs.

I would have started Duque and hoped for the best, with Moose and Brown available. He hadn't ever done a great job in the PS for us had he?

2007-07-15 14:41:13
428.   Vandelay Industries
Did Miguel Cabrea swallow a cadillac or something?
2007-07-15 14:42:35
429.   BklynBmr
8 back in the all-important loss column. Not to mention the 8-6 suspended game to be resumed against the Boyds with Cap on second, 2 outs in the top of the 8th, so we got that going for us, too...

418 Friends don't let friends watch ESPN period.

2007-07-15 14:42:50
430.   monkeypants
427 et al. A very creative manager would have seen that the starters were all shot or shit, and started the game with the BP, or even the "best" starter on an extremely short leash. Literally play the game like an all star game and go for broke early. I don't fault Torre for not doing this, because NO manager in the game today would have gone for this sort of tactic.
2007-07-15 14:44:24
431.   Vandelay Industries
430

But none of the top managers would have trotted out Kevin Brown. I guess that's my point.

2007-07-15 14:45:33
432.   Vandelay Industries
What am I missing? The Angels have almost no offensive talent. How the hell do they have the best record in MLB? Is Mike S. really that good?
2007-07-15 14:45:36
433.   Mattpat11
426 Vazquez was still horrendous in both those games.

And going into that game, we didn't have the game seven stats. What we did was Vazquez coming off a second half where he gave up 61 runs (all earned, funny enough. Rare to see that) in 79.1 IP, combined with a playoff run where gave up nine runs in 9.1 IP.

2007-07-15 14:45:37
434.   Jim Dean
426 What's most disgusting is the other option was Loaiza and he was the best of the three that series. The Yanks had 6 starting pitchers and only two were worth anything - one of whom was Lieber the other Mussina.

The Yanks blew it but that they were ever in a position to win it was even more surprising. Even looking back - the Sox had a top three of Pedro, Schilling and Lowe, plus Wakefield.

2007-07-15 14:47:14
435.   Jim Dean
428 Nelson de la Rosa.
2007-07-15 14:47:37
436.   monkeypants
431 No argument here. That series was lost when Clark's double bounced over the short fence in Fenway. The subsequent pitching moves were just a slow train wreck.
2007-07-15 14:48:05
437.   Vandelay Industries
429

I agree. We have to shoot for the Division. Minnesota is very very good, and I dont see us leapfrogging 4 teams, but what do I know?

2007-07-15 14:48:17
438.   Mattpat11
431 Oh, I disagree. Mike Scioscia, in those same playoffs, pissed away the Angels chances by making a stupid "by the books" managerial move. And he's supposedly one of the best. I really don't think the difference between the best manager and worst are as different as people suggest
2007-07-15 14:48:43
439.   Vandelay Industries
437

Wait, I know that Posh spice looks pretty nasty in HD. What was Beckham thinking?

2007-07-15 14:48:57
440.   Jim Dean
433 True, but much less horrendous. And Game 3 Vazquez was still better.
2007-07-15 14:52:54
441.   Mattpat11
440 And Brown was much better in Minnesota and the last two months of the year.

They were two horrific options. Both guys would have lost the game, and as it turns out, both did everything they could to lose that game.

2007-07-15 14:53:03
442.   Jim Dean
BTW: Igawa tomorrow night! W00t!
2007-07-15 14:54:01
443.   Jim Dean
441 No shit. What are we arguing about? It was Cashman's fault! Jeff Weaver would have thrown a shut out that game!
2007-07-15 14:55:04
444.   Mattpat11
443 I'm just pointing out that Vazquez was in no way an obvious or easy answer.
2007-07-15 14:55:22
445.   Mattpat11
442 AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWSHIT
2007-07-15 15:22:13
446.   BklynBmr
437 Call me crazy, too, but I'm thinking the division is doable. Even in the face of "Well, Team A has to play .800 ball while Team B has to play .500 ball, and that just ain't gonna happen, yadda, yadda." Really? It seems to happen every year, when some club is left for dead in August and good things just start happenin', math be damned.

This is why they play 'em, and why we watch...

2007-07-15 16:39:16
447.   Mattpat11
The division will be the only way
2007-07-15 17:42:38
448.   BklynBmr
447 Yeah, the WC looks tough. Seattle has a brutal second half (lotsa Halos, Boston, Detroit, and Minny — which could help or hurt), but the loser of the Tribe-Tigers race seems to be the one to really worry about.

Assuming we take care of biz on this end ;-)

Trade deadline moves may be real interesting this year...

2007-07-15 19:02:30
449.   JL25and3
Why the big pause?
2007-07-15 19:39:59
450.   Zack
Bueller? Bueller?
Show/Hide Comments 451-500
2007-07-15 20:12:02
451.   Vandelay Industries
444

That's for sure. I thought Duque was a no brainer. He still had Brown and Mussina to go to. Even Vasquez. Would have been the Cuban pitching version of Kirk Gibson. He still contends to this day that he was good to go, and I believe him. But Joe will always take the known quantity over the unknown, even if its the worst possible option. I still wonder why they didn't just sign him for a song. We could have locked him up for 10 freakin' years for what we spent on Pavano that very same off-season. Talk about injury concerns! He was so bad for Chicago in the PS after all. I'd take him in a game seven tomorrow, even 3 years later.

2007-07-15 20:13:50
452.   Vandelay Industries
He'd still be bettter out of the Pen in 2007 than the three headed monster of Villone, Proctor, and Farny.
2007-07-15 20:19:45
453.   Vandelay Industries
One nice thing about the ESPY's. It shone another light on what Boise did to the under-coached, perenially over-hyped and over-ranked Oklahoma Squanderers.
2007-07-15 20:42:13
454.   Mattpat11
The tired arm situation and Duque's arm falling off in the fifth inning of game four probably scared him away from sending him in three days later.
2007-07-15 21:32:59
455.   Vandelay Industries
Does anyone know of a comprehensive piece on HR distance in ballparks historically that I could read?

I know that records are records and nothing can be done to change that, but given the lowered mound some 30 years ago and much smaller ballparks, that the Babe and Mays cant really be compared to today's players, or Hank Aaron for that matter.

Has anyone ever done a workup as to how Ruth's HR numbers stack up against Bonds or Aaron, given the distance that the ball actually had to travel? I wouldn't think anyone would have reached even 600 HR if the dimensions had stayed constant. I mean the Japanese record is what, like 850? I got to thinking after ESPN made a huge deal out of a HR that travelled 460 Ft. today, which didn't strike me as all that far, well, not far enough to make a big deal out of it.

Am I crazy?

2007-07-15 23:03:23
456.   Zack
I think its time to send Edwar Ramirez back down to AAA so he can get some work, let alone consistent work. It's really amazing how Torre just cannot be trusted with any pitcher/player with under two seasons of major league work, no matter how crappy
2007-07-15 23:34:48
457.   Vandelay Industries
456

Zach,

My prediction is that so long as the team continues to win series, Edwar won't see much if any work. It doesn't matter how badly middle relief performs, so long as the team wins, Joe won't give him a chance. I am still happy for him though, at least he is earning league minimum to ride the pine. However, you are correct, we aren't helping him by not getting him any work. Maybe the dinger off Villone, Proctor reverting to the guy who just throws fastballs and won't throw anything else for a strike, and two days of Farns being Farns will get Edwar some work, but only if things get so bad he has no choice. Overreact when things are bad, and keep status quo so long as W's keep coming, the Torre way.

There is no reason to think that if he learns not to overuse the change-up, he cant be nore effective three days a week than anyone in our bullpen. Joe was the same guy who was more than reluctant to use Mariano Rivera. And if Rivera lobbying Joe to get Edwar some work doesn't get it done, I don't know what will. Oh yes I do, losing 5 of 7 will do it.

Anyone catch Strawberry's and Lofton's comments? It is amazing that refusing to play LOfton because well, he was rotten at the time, will lead a grown man to accuse someone of racism. That is no better or worse than using the N word to describe someone. Lofton and Sheffield should be treated as if they were white players who had done just that, but there is about as much a chance of that as there is of the NY Times running a caricature of Mohammed.

2007-07-16 02:18:50
458.   Jim Dean
457 Problem is: Lofton was a better CF option back then than Bernie but became a part-time player cause Joe couldn't face the facts and make Bernie a DH. That decision not only affected 2004 (as Lofton contributed nicely in the few post-season ABs he got) but also 2005 (when Bubba became the regular CF by the time the ALDS rolled around).

Meanwhile, look at what Lofton continues to do. He would have been a better, and much cheaper option, than Damon as he's a better player - not just this year but for each of the last three years. But for whatever reason, Joe never gave him a solid chance (IMO because he couldn't let go of Bernie). Who knows why?

2007-07-16 07:21:19
459.   bob34957
414 MMMMMMMMMM I'm lovin it!!!!!!!!

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