Baseball Toaster was unplugged on February 4, 2009.
I’ll never get tired of Old-Timers Day. In fact, as I work my way into my early forties, I only appreciate this wondrous day more and more. It boggles the mind that the Yankees are the last team to hold the fort on Old-Timers Day—of the 30 clubs, they’re the only team that bothers to stage this event any more—but that’s a subject for another day. Rather than focus on what other teams are losing out on—hey, it’s their loss, not the loss of Yankee fans—let’s take a look at some of the more memorable moments from the latest gathering of legends at Yankee Stadium.
*I was amazed at the loudness of the ovation for Scott Brosius, who was one of several former Yankees participating in his first Old-Timers Day at the Stadium. Although mostly a journeyman player during his big league career, Brosius enjoyed a career year in pinstripes in 1998 and then hit that nail-in-the-coffin home run against Trevor Hoffman in the World Series. Those accomplishments, coupled with the relative recentness of Brosius’ time in New York, have made him one of the most popular of the ex-Yankees. (Imagine if Brosius had played for the Yankees in the 1980s; he likely wouldn’t even be invited to Old-Timers Day.) I guess Brosius’ cult status shouldn’t come as that surprising given how many fans lament for the hard-nosed players of the recent dynasty. The three names that fans always mention are Paul "The Warrior" O’Neill, Tino Martinez, and—of course, Scott Brosius.
*Other than Brosius, several former Yankees made their inaugural appearances at Old-Timers Day. O’Neill, the recipient of some loud chanting at the Stadium on Saturday, was the most prominent. Even into his sixth year of retirement, he looks to be in the same kind of playing shape today and rifled a line drive single into right-enter field. (Former Yankee GM Gene Michael says O’Neill retired way too early, giving up three our four more potentially productive seasons.) Given the struggles of the every-passive Bobby Abreu, maybe the Yankees should give O’Neill an audition. Well, let’s not get that desperate… On a more realistic front, I wonder why we don’t hear more talk about O’Neill becoming a manager. (After all, there have been whispers about O’Neill becoming the Reds bench coach in 2008.) Fiery and intelligent, O’Neill was often mentioned as a future managerial candidate at the tail end of his playing career. I know that O’Neill is concerned about spending large chunks of time away from his young children, but perhaps he’ll take a page out of Don Mattingly’s book and begin to pursue a coaching career once his children get older. O’Neill could become a curious cross between Billy Martin and Lou Piniella, and wouldn’t that be an interesting kind of manager for Yankee fans to follow after the sedate tenure of Joe Torre?
*A couple of Yankees from the lean years also made their Old-Timers debuts. Ken Griffey, Sr. and Jesse Barfield reappeared in Yankee pinstripes for the first time in years. I have to admit that I never much cared for the senior Griffey as a Yankee; he was a chronic complainer who showed a reluctance to try to steal bases and who bristled when the team tried to move him to first base. On one occasion, Griffey failed to show up for a game (a cardinal sin for a professional athlete), only contacting the team at a very late hour to provide a reason for his absence. I find his return to the Stadium curious; could it be an omen that Griffey, Jr. is on his way to the Bronx? As for Barfield, I have a much softer spot for the former right fielder. Though he played for some of the worst Yankee teams in the early 1990s, Barfield always played hard, displayed one of the greatest arms in recent right field history, and gave the Yankees some decent production before giving way to Danny Tartabull. Barfield also carried himself like a classy gentleman, which is one reason why I root for his son, Indians second baseman Josh Barfield.
*As the Yankees always do, the organization remembered former players who have passed away within the last 12 months. The list of names read by Bob Sheppard included Cory Lidle, Hank Bauer, and Clete Boyer, along with onetime Yankees Steve Barber, Lew Burdette, Johnny Callison, Pat Dobson, Pete Mikkelsen, and Joe Niekro, and former Yankee pitching coach Art Fowler. I knew Boyer fairly well from recent summers, in which he lived in Cooperstown and often signed autographs up and down Main Street. I also remember Barber, Callison, Dobson and Niekro from my early days growing up with baseball, yet another sign that I’m treading toward middle age.
*The theme of this year’s Old-Timers Day centered on the 30th anniversary of the 1977 World Championship team. That’s a summer that I remember vividly. I was 12 years old, still in grade school, and savoring what would be the first Yankee World Championship of my lifetime. Sixteen members of that team attended Saturday’s reunion. Also, in a nice touch, close relatives of four deceased members of that club (captain Thurman Munson, Hall of Fame right-hander Jim "Catfish" Hunter, coach Elston Howard, and manager Billy Martin) were introduced to the crowd. That left roughly ten prominent players from the ’77 squad who did not show for a variety of reasons. Several of the ’77 Yankees are managers at either the major league level (Lou Piniella and Willie Randolph), in the minor leagues (Sparky Lyle), or in the new Israel Baseball League (Ken Holtzman), thereby making them unavailable for Saturday’s ceremonies. With those exceptions, that left Roy White, Carlos May, Fred "Chicken" Stanley, Fran Healy, Don Gullett, and Dick "Dirt" Tidrow as no-shows. Stanley and Tidrow both work as executives with other clubs, so perhaps that created a conflict. Healy has disassociated himself from the Yankees since working for them as a radio broadcaster in the early 1980s. As for White, May, and Gullett, I’m not sure of the reasons behind their absences. White was fired by the Yankees after his last coaching stint, so perhaps that was a factor, while the whereabouts of Gullett and May remain unknown to me.
*Perhaps the most surprising attendee among the ’77 Yankees was Mickey Klutts, a onetime highly regarded prospect who flopped in the major leagues. Klutts (man, we had fun with that name back in the seventies) appeared in all of five games in 1977, coming to bat 15 times, but was still included in the ‘77 contingent. (Klutts actually had fewer at-bats than 1977 late arrival Dave Kingman, who has about as much association with the Yankees today as Ken Phelps.) It makes you wonder if Dave Bergman, Gene Locklear, and Marty Perez received invites to the reunion.
*The No 1 highlight of this year’s Old-Timers gathering may have been the appearance of Bobby Murcer. Given some of the grave reports surrounding Murcer’s battle with cancer this past winter, I wondered whether we’d see Murcer on Old-Timers Saturday. Not only did Murcer appear, but also he wore a uniform, sported a microphone for the YES Network, played in the actual game, and delivered a hard-hit line drive that was caught in right field. Though his uniform looked a bit baggy because of his recent weight loss, Murcer moved well for someone battling the effects of brain cancer. His hair has also started to grow back after recent chemotherapy treatments. And just as importantly, Murcer has lost none of the self-deprecating humor that makes him one of the most beloved of all the retired Yankees. Simply put, Bobby Murcer is one of the best justifications for having something like Old-Timers Day in the first place.
Let’s just hope the Yankees remain the last holdouts among major league teams and never do away with this gathering of nostalgia and remembrance known as Old-Timers Day.
Its funny you mention the strange appearance of Griffey Sr. The same thing went through my head when I saw him. I thought maybe they are trying to warm up to Griffey to get him here. I like Junior, but I think that would be a bad move being he is old and left-handed.
The best part of it all was seeing Bobby out there playing and having a good time. He even hit a hard liner.
That's what I remember when I was looking through the World Series program sitting in the bleachers before Game 3 of the World Series at Dodger Stadium. I was so engrossed in the program that I missed a Jerry Grote BP home run that nearly conked me in the head.
I didn't get the ball.
That said, Michael Kay loves to say that the Yankees are the only team that has an Old Timer's Day because they're the only team with the legacy of stars to pull it off. With the '50s-era Yankees dying off (Boyer and Bauer most recently, Scooter unable to attend any more, etc.), I'm not so sure that's true. From 1965-1995 the Yankees made just three World Series and won just two, that's 30 years dominated by the Jesse Barfields of history rather than the Yogi Berras and Whitey Fords (no disrespect meant to the late '70s dynasty, or to the favorites of my youth such as Mattingly and Brosius analog Mike Pagliarulo).
At any rate, I'd say that at this point the Cardinals (six World Series from 1964-1987), A's (six from 1972-1990), Dodgers (eight from 1962-1988), Reds (five from 1961-1990), and even the Giants (only two: 1962 and 1989, but what stars!: Mays, McCovey, Marichal, Cepeda, Perry, Clark) could do at least as well in assembling an Old Timer's Day.
The names were astounding. There were people in the stands that wept with nostalia.
While I love the Yankees I really knew, the Murcer/Munson/White crew, the post 60's Yankees and history just can't compare to the 'old days'. I don't know why he was there, but I got Stan Musials autograph.
I will say that Murcer is really cementing his legacy as a Yankee. So odd that he was traded. He is a great gentleman and carries on our tradition proudly.
Oh... to be a fly on the wall back in the early '70s and hear those 'old timers' talk in the locker room.
A different time....
My blog hasn't been updated due to computer woes, but my pictures from game are up.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/goddam/sets/72157600730798323/
And in the last year of Yankee Stadium, I'd like to see a quality tribute to the great and tragic Mickey Mantle.
If Jeter bunts here...
As for the tribute, I hope they celebrate the teams entire history. Off the top of my head, I'd love to see giant flags representing all 26 World Championships across the field.
Yeah, I want him on my team. Scrub.
Man... does Reyes throw hard or what!
That was an absolute rocket to 1st.
He would look mighty nice in RF and will be a free agent after next year, I think.
Wow, and Kenny R with the report that Ichiro will sign for 5 years and 90-100 million.
If Arod opts out, I'd imagine the Yankees would pursue Cabrera very aggressively. I sure like to keep Joba though. Other than he and Hughes, I think everyone else should be on the table.
Seriously, a montage about the World Series with the Yankees making up like three of forty-odd clips?
Why would it have to involve A-Rod opting out? Indeed, A-Rod would be a great mentor.
What about Tabata and Ian? Cabrera is 24.
Cano, Tabata, Chamberlain, Clippard, and Marquez for Willis and Cabrera?
Honestly, I'd include any of those guys before Melky or Cano. And Melky still has time to be be very valuable.
PeteAbe's blog, meanwhile...
Meanwhile, Russell Martin standing next to Chris Young looked particularly hilarious.
WORST ASG EVER
http://tinyurl.com/y2nt45
:-)
Cano and Melky have proven they belong in the majors before the age of 24. And replacing them would take three years of Cairo-Damon types.
Chamberlain - no argument here. He should be untouchable. But Cabrera is the type of hitter that you forget those things based on the package.
I think Ichiro is great.
And Reyes is definitely a star. Has a great future ahead.
And Byrnes as an intentional clown is good.
--checking--
Wow, career wise he does. Looks like the NL guys have locked him in there. Problem is: He doesn't get many chances to drive in runs. In Tex he was an okay 3 hitter.
15 HR and 33 RBI
Weird.
Brad Wilkerson (2004, 32 HR 67 RBI)
Rob Deer (1992, 32 HR 64 RBI)
Felix Mantilla (1964, 30 HR 64 RBI)
Take Reyes' 35 net stolen bases (46 SB - 11 CS) - and add it to his double count, and he's got 52 2B's.
Or simply add those "extra" bases into his SLG and it's over .500 with a .387 OBP.
That's tasty.
That was a really nice rendition.
Since NY is the talent capitol, if we HAVE to do God Bless America at every game, why not get some nice stylized versions?
OPS+ doesn't seem to include SB. Does EQA? Reyes is at .299 vs .294 for Jeter. I think WARP does and he's already at 4.7 this year (vs. 5.1 for Jeter).
Even half a base puts him at 35 2B's plus 9 3B's and 4 HR's. Given his job as the leadoff hitter, that's probably the best in the game.
Not surprisingly, he's at 61 R after 122 R last year.
I think that's what we see when we look at his EQA and WARP. He's about as valuable as Jeter even as the AVG, OBP, and SLG are all about 20-30 points lower.
Reyes - .299 4.7
Sizemore - .301 3.7
Ichiro - .311 5.7
Ichiro's also playing hotter than he has the last two years.
Reyes and Sizemore are both 24. Should be a great debate for many years to come.
Meanwhile:
Hanley Ramirez - .318 EQA 4.5 WARP1 - except he's only batted leadoff half the time, and he's been better doing it (1.000+ OPS). And he's 23.
Soriano - 2007 - .293 EQA 4.9 WARP1
Also, for perspective, a hitter who hits a 2B in 1AB has an EqA of .300. A hitter who singles and steals second has an EqA of .225.
150 You want to look up VORP too? See, it's at this point I lose interest. I don't think the stats will ever have enough precision to say, definitively, who's better when the comps are that close. They help clarify things (like Reyes is in the same class as Ichiro and Sizemore :) but that's about it.
See, the All Star Game is good for something.
Goodnight!
As for VORP:
54.5 Alex Rodriguez
44.0 Ichiro Suzuki
35.8 Grady Sizemore
35.6 Brian Roberts
35.2 Jose Reyes
Great explanation of ZR over at RLYW by SG. Take from it what you will but I for one was wrong about the Stats Inc guys at games - there are three of them. And the beauty of stats: You can examine their scores for something called iter-rater reliability. Basically it's a estimate of how much their scores correlate. If they match perfectly you know they weren't independent, match very little you know your method is crap. Anywhere in between and you have some estimate of how folks rated each and every play and the variability thereof.
The only thing better IMHO is having thirty scorers at each game. Now, who wants to fund, manage, and transcribe that operation across every ballgame?
I am not trying to discredit Reyes' SB at all. I am just suggesting that their contribution fall well below that of a total base.
The piece on RLYW was very interesting, but it doesn't' explain away a few problems I have, such as:
1) There is subjectivity among the scorers, even in a three-man system.
2) There is n o accounting for pitching staffs and park effects (consider my YS example from before…if hitters at YS try to avoid hitting to the left side, then Jeter's chances in his zone might be both more difficult and more likely to exploit his weakness). I think this is one of the biggest concerns I have with ZR.
3) It doesn't factor in pop-ups and line-drives, two things Jeter seems to be pretty good out. In other words, maybe Jeter does let 20 extra balls get by him a season, but it might be that he snags an extra 6-8 line drives/pop ups. Should that not be counted as well?
4) I am not sure on this one, but it doesn't seem to differentiate between throwing and fielding errors. If the purpose is to measure range, shouldn't throwing errors be considered outs?
5) Looking at the defined zones, it appears as if slice G (which isn't in the SS zone) is about where Jeter makes his jump throw. Assuming Jeter is better in this zone than most SS, then it's exclusion would limit his relative advantage. Even though Jeter would get credit for the play, other SS wouldn't be penalized.
As the article states, the differences in the number of plays between the worst, best and average isn't very much over the course of the season. When you sprinkle in corrections for some of the factors I mentioned, that difference could narrow even further 9in fact, the BTF article suggests that tweaking ZR bring Jeter to about average in the two seasons prior to the article). Having all these variables is what makes me wince.
Also, for what it's worth, BP lists Jeter's RATE as 107, 105 and 111 from 2005 to 2007. Now, if I understand RATE correctly, that would be above average over the past three seasons.
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