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Don't Stop (Cut to Black)
2007-06-28 21:39
by Alex Belth
Note: The Bronx Banter blog has moved to bronxbanterblog.com.

Believing?

Well, um, would you believe that rain spoiled and then perhaps saved the Yankees tonight? We don't know the outcome of Thursday night's game between the Yankees and the Orioles because it was suspended with two out in the top of the eighth and won't be continued until the Yankees are in town again, which is at the end of July. The game was delayed just after the O's took a two run lead in the seventh. Then, it was called for a second time immediately after Derek Jeter singled home two runs off Chris Ray in the eighth, giving the Yankees an 8-6 lead. Melvin Mora berated the umpires for not stopping the game sooner. According to the AP:

Before Jeter stepped to the plate, Mora pleaded with third base umpire Tim Tschida to stop the game.

"I just asked him, 'You don't think it's too wet?' He started yelling at me and cursed," Mora said. "I said, 'This is worse than when you stopped the game when we was winning. Why you don't stop it now? I can't even see the ball.'

"He just tried to make Jeter hit so they can score one run so they can get out of here. That's what I think," said Mora, who was ejected from the game.

So the Yankees end one of the worst road trips in recent memory with an incomplete (just for the night, not for the trip). They didn't actually win a game, but they at least they were leading when it ended.

Chien Ming Wang didn't have dominant stuff but he pitched efficiently for the first six innings. Alex Rodriguez made a fine, one-handed play on a bunt attempt by Melvin Mora early in the game. Several innings later, Brian Roberts robbed Derek Jeter of a hit by backhanding a ball hit up the middle and then turning and making a great throw as his body was falling away to left field.

The Yankees couldn't come up with a big hit, but they were driving in runs with outs and working deep counts on Daniel Cabrera, who was characteristically wild. Rodriguez had a chance to break the game open in the sixth. He came up with the bases loaded and one out and was sitting on a 3-1 count but grounded into a 6-4-3 double play.

Wang then quickly gave up a 4-2 lead as Baltimore scored four runs in bottom of the seventh. I couldn't believe the Yankes were going to blow another game. You have got to be kidding me. And it all came apart on Wang so suddenly. But I give the team credit for how they came back in the eighth. Jeter's two-out hit is something he's done so often over the course of his career, it's almost easy to take for granted. But even though it didn't secure a win tonight, I'm sure Jeter and the rest of the Yankees are appreciating it plenty.

This has turned out to be a strange season hasn't it?

Comments (134)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-06-29 04:31:59
1.   monkeypants
I know it probably won't matter too much in reality, but what exactly are the rules for player substitutions in suspending games if the rosters change dramatically by the time they return to the game in July?

I figure that a player who has been removed from the game (Wang) can't rreturn, and the batter order presumably stays the same. But what if some of the players currently in the game are sent down, of DL, or traded?

If a player who has keft the game is released and another player added to teh roster, is the new player allowed to play? For example, let's say that the Yankees had pinch hit for Phillips last night (with Cairo or who ever). Phillips is in the meanwhile sent to AAA and they pick up (God forbid) Hillenbrand. Can Hillenbrand be substituted into the game in July, or must the Yankees designate a player to 'replace' Phillips, who must take his place on the bench? This could get complicated with multiple roster moves, especialy if the ratio of position players/pitchers changes.

Do suspended games create loopholes where a team can in effect multiple substitute?

2007-06-29 04:57:14
2.   rbj
1 I think it's that a player who replaces a player who's out of the game is also out of the game. Think in terms of roster slots -- if that slot is used up, can't use that slot no matter what the player's name. Where it gets complicated is when there are multiple players traded, some who have been used up, others who haven't. Then it is Torre's? Cashman's? decision for that game to determine who's in what slot.

And it's a strange and ugly season.

2007-06-29 05:20:21
3.   monkeypants
2 So, if pitchers have been moved as well (let's say Britton in, Farns out), then the manager could decide to put a new pitcher in the "slot" of a position player who has been removed from the game?

I guess this would only have a tactical advantage if, by the time the game is resumed, there are more position players on the 25 man roster. In that case, using my previous example, Phillips would be out, Hillenbrand in, Phillips' roster slot replaced by Britton; another position player could be added to the roster (let's say Bruney is sent down), so in effect two batters became available for the price of one. (Though, of course, at the cost of one pitcher.)

2007-06-29 05:25:29
4.   markh
It was an official game; it was raining. why was the game suspended instead of called as a victory for NY?
2007-06-29 05:30:51
5.   monkeypants
4 Because them's the rules.

Because there has to be "fair outs"--if a visiting team scores the go-ahead run in the top of the inning, the home team has to have at least one chance (one side batting) to tie it in the bottom of the inning. In the older days (a few years ago), this game would have reverted to the last full inning, and the Yankees would have lost. Now they pick up the game where it left off.

Now, if the Yankees went ahead in the seventh, the O's batted in the seventh and did not tie the game, then Yankees batted in the eigth and the rains came, the game would be declared a win for the Yankees (because the O's had fair outs in the bottom of the seventh).

2007-06-29 05:33:00
6.   monkeypants
4 Speaking of the old rules--didn't the following hapen to the Yankees in 1995 or 1996, against the White Sox (?):

Game tied after five innings, Yankees go ahead in the top of the sixth (or whatever), rain comes and game is called, score reverts to the fifth inning tie. So, the game was declared a tie and replayed at a later date.

I love this sort of stuff!

2007-06-29 05:34:00
7.   AbbyNormal821
45...and I thought it was just because Mora threw a hissy fit.

;-P

2007-06-29 05:34:45
8.   AbbyNormal821
uh...that was meant to be 4 5 - unless whoever makes the 45th post has a witty reply for me...hee hee!
2007-06-29 05:51:08
9.   rbj
3 I believe that is correct. You simply don't want a team to, in effect, get a 26 man roster for the completion of the game.

And now we have time to come up with a good joke for which 7 gets to be the punch line. More coffee.

2007-06-29 05:53:25
10.   AbbyNormal821
9 Touche`
:-)
2007-06-29 06:10:58
11.   buffalocharlie
I agree with Melvin Mora. The game should have been stopped before Jeter's hit. It was pouring, the Oriole pitcher had have issues gripping the ball, Patterson in CF had almost no chance of making that throw in the downpour. Badly managed by the umpiring crew in my opinion.

Could the Orioles officially protest the ump's suspect decision-making?

2007-06-29 06:25:54
12.   C2Coke
Strange? That doesn't even begin to describe it.
2007-06-29 06:28:59
13.   spufi2007
The rules for handling this actually date back to after the 1978 season. Just before the Yankees started their surge in catching the Red Sox, they scored 2 runs in the top of an inning to take a lead, if I recall correctly. The rain came, they called it, wiped the 2 runs off the board, and the opposing team won. If those rules still held, Baltimore would have won 6-4. So, thankfully, the 1978 rules aren't in effect any more.
2007-06-29 06:36:11
14.   RIYank
The game was tied before Jeter's hit, so it would have been suspended anyway. Unless you think Jeter had a better chance of getting a hit in the rain than he would in good weather (which may be true), the umpire's decision didn't favor the Yankees.

On the roster, I don't think 2 can be right because the 'roster slots' aren't individuated. So, for instance, suppose a team dropped four players from its roster, three who had played in the suspended game and one who had not. What would determine which of the new players was eligible to play in the continuation?
I believe all new players would be eligible. As monkeypants says, it's unlikely to make a difference in this instance.

2007-06-29 06:39:57
15.   seamus
so. curious what all of this has to do with sun ra.

Seriously. These are bizarre times in Yankee land. I've been busy at work which has allowed me to avoid what I'm sure is major frustration for everyone who has been watching the games. I can't really understand what just happened to this team.

2007-06-29 06:41:31
16.   buffalocharlie
14 I do think the hitter has the advantage in a downpour. The pitcher and fielders have to deal with gripping a wet baseball and making accurate throws, very difficult imo. That said, it is also more difficult for the hitter in the heavy rain, but I feel the advantage is for the hitter.
2007-06-29 06:42:40
17.   markh
Okay, that makes sense. That rule even rings a bell, amazingly enough. But despite zillions of rain-shortened games over the years, I really can't ever remember this having happened before. Weird.
2007-06-29 06:42:45
18.   ieddyi
Shaky outing for Randy Johnson last night. GEtting out from under that contract- even w/ no prospects in return is looking better and better ( right Jimmeh?? )

How many years did they extend him for??

Ouch

2007-06-29 06:46:20
19.   monkeypants
14 Right, I forgot the game was already tied before Jeter got his hit.

13 I'm not so sure those rule changes were put in place as far back as post-1978. I checked baseball-reference.com, and the Yankees did play in a 1-1 tie game on July 17, 1995 against the White Sox, though teh details were little different than I recall. teh game was tied after six, the Sox batted in the top of the seventh, the Yankees then began to bat in the bottom of the seventh: the first two batters reached base, then the game was called w/ runners on 1st and 2nd, no one out. The score reverted back to the last full inning (6th), and the game was declared a tie.

Now the rules (4.10.d) make this situation a suspended game, to be completed at a later date. So, presumably the rules for suspended games were updated after 1995.

2007-06-29 06:47:33
20.   monkeypants
18 Please don't!
2007-06-29 06:51:44
21.   monkeypants
Continuing from 19 with one last note on 1995: the day that game was decalred a tie, the Yankees were 33-38--they managed to make the play-offs as the WC team.

Signs?

2007-06-29 06:56:49
22.   Jim Dean
18 Wake me when he's as dead as Moose and Igawa. And Roger's not looking too far off. Good thing the Yanks saved all the cash!
2007-06-29 07:04:17
23.   Shaun P
18 Thanks. Thanks a lot.

I am not sure about the roster stuff, but I know someone who would be. Paging Bob Timmermann . . . OK, I have left Bob a note at the Griddle.

2007-06-29 07:05:43
24.   Shaun P
19 And speaking of Bob and the Griddle, if you go here http://tinyurl.com/yrl7oq, you can learn all about the rule and its interesting history.
2007-06-29 07:08:26
25.   51cq24
22 i don't care what anyone says and what they do elsewhere, i'm glad randy and sheffield are off this team. they were the right moves at the time, no matter how they look right now. they should have also tried to trade giambi and damon. signing clemens was not smart.
2007-06-29 07:10:43
26.   Bob Timmermann
The players who were subbed out of the game can't come back to play on July 27, but the Yankees and Orioles could conceivably call up as many different players as they wanted to help out with the final endings.

The Yankees could acquire Chris Ray in a trade and then send him to the mound and have him cough up the lead for two teams in one game.

You can theoretically have the same winning and losing pitcher in a game in this situation.

2007-06-29 07:11:17
27.   monkeypants
24 Why thank you! So, they changed the rule in 1979 or so to eliminate the Yankees-Orioles 1978 situation, but only this year changed the rules to eliminate the dreaded rain-shortened tie.
2007-06-29 07:12:15
28.   monkeypants
25 dear god in heaven, think of the children!
2007-06-29 07:13:34
29.   51cq24
28 like humberto sanchez?
2007-06-29 07:13:53
30.   monkeypants
26 But can they call up all sorts of players and use all of them, even if that means the total number of players used exceeds 25?
2007-06-29 07:14:39
31.   Rob Middletown CT
Maybe it's just me, but I thought Abreu should've caught Millar's "triple."
2007-06-29 07:17:42
32.   51cq24
31 he should have. he slid instead of dove. i went to wesleyan.
2007-06-29 07:24:42
33.   pistolpete
45 Yeah but the joke's on him - the other guy wasn't gay!
2007-06-29 07:26:50
34.   monkeypants
45 Why the big pause?
2007-06-29 07:28:22
35.   dianagramr
26 (re: Chris Ray as winning AND losing P)

Jayson Stark and the Elias guys would have a field day with THAT one ...

2007-06-29 07:29:14
36.   mehmattski
45 Karim Garcia?
2007-06-29 07:30:20
37.   dianagramr
31

Abreu is one of the laziest outfielders I've seen in quite a while. When was the last time he crashed into a wall or dove for a ball? Aaron Rowand ought to take Abreu behind the woodshed for a while.

2007-06-29 07:33:53
38.   monkeypants
37 Please tell me that's sarcasm... or have we predictably elided player analysis from "poor execution" to "moral deficiency."
2007-06-29 07:34:14
39.   51cq24
45 disappointing
2007-06-29 07:37:05
40.   Bob Timmermann
Reading Torre's comments in the New York Times were scary because you would think a guy who has managed for a long time would, you know, know the rules.

And in theory, the Yankees and Orioles could each trot out 25 new guys. However, the only players right now who can't play in the completion will be Wang and Vizcaino for the Yankees and Cabrera, Shuey, Parrish, and Mora for the Orioles.

And if neither the Yankees or Orioles change their bullpens around before July 27, I would be shocked.

2007-06-29 07:38:46
41.   Max
20 28 Thanks for fighting the good fight. I liked the sun ra discussion that broke out late last night myself.
2007-06-29 07:39:41
42.   dianagramr
38

Not sarcasm ... Abreu has long been regarded as lazy in the outfield. Its one of the reasons the Phillies dealt him last year.

I'm not suggesting he need to risk life and limb like Rowand does, but I've seen enough of Abreu in person and on TV to recognize lack of effort.

2007-06-29 07:41:13
43.   JL25and3
30 Yes, Bob is right. It's in rule 4.12(c): "A player who was not with the club when the game was suspended may be used as a substitute, even if he has taken the place of a player no longer with the club who would not have been eligible because he had been removed from the lineup before the game was suspended."

15 If you want to know what it has to do with Sun Ra, just ask Melvin Mora. He'll tell you it's just like nuclear war: a motherf*cker.

Funny, as I was listening to the game, I thought the umps were trying to give the Orioles a chance to get the last out, then they'd call it as a tie.

2007-06-29 07:43:34
44.   Bob Timmermann
After about 136 years of organized professional baseball, they finally said, "You know, a tie is a really lame idea."
2007-06-29 07:45:03
45.   RIYank
40 No, there are several others who can't play. Millar (removed for pinch runner) Bynum (runner removed for new 1B), Gibbons (removed for pinch runner).
2007-06-29 07:45:29
46.   monkeypants
40 43 Thanks and Thanks. I guess I could have figured that out if I bothered to read all of the relevant rules instead of just skimming. I guess Abreu is rubbing off on me.
2007-06-29 07:45:36
47.   RIYank
Oh, man, I squandered 45. Sorry. 44 wasn't up yet when I wrote it.
2007-06-29 07:46:36
48.   buffalocharlie
373842

I have to agree that 'lazy' doesn't work here. Abreu was hustling for Millar's batted ball, but to catch it required a head-first dive and MLB OFers, esp. those getting paid to hit are trained?, encouraged?, not sure which to protect their bodies.

I know when I start the softball season each year, I have to train myself to dive to make plays, it doesn't come naturally.

That said, that was a situation where Abreu should have gone 'all-out', diving head first in an attempt to save the game.

2007-06-29 07:46:58
49.   Jim Dean
37 What about the play in Boston that saved the game?

Abreu is the anti-Jeter: He's not awful but looks so because of some plays.

25 I'm changing my mind on the Sheffield trade and william spelled it out last night. At the time, I thought it was good. But if they knew Humberto would need Tommy J, then it's a pretty dumb trade. Shef would have been the DH. Giambi would have been the 1B. That would have lasted one month, if that. And Shef would have dealt with no extension - if he wanted to earn his next contract, just like in 2003.

See, everyone thought Giambi was getting hurt because of playing 1B. Instead he was breaking down from pumping his body full of chemicals.

As for Damon - last year when no one else in baseball wanted to pay him $13mil/year - all of a suddden suitors were going to line up to do so AND give up prospects? And who was lining up to pay Giambi 42 million over 2007-08?

2007-06-29 07:49:32
50.   monkeypants
44 Ties are lame, but I'm not sure it's a worse idea than allowing teh game to start again, weeks later, with potentially very different rosters. Basically the tie is a big "do-over."

The real problem, it seems to me, is that the season goes on so long, with so few real off days (mostly they are used for long travel), and the players and owners (and networks) are gainst double-headers, that there is intense pressure to play games in pretty bad weather. Ideally they would call games quicker, before the weather turns so crappy that they are forced to stop it once they've entered tied/suspended game territory.

Oh well, no solution is perfect.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-06-29 07:49:50
51.   51cq24
49 i would have said the same things about people lining up to trade for randy johnson. and paying part of their contracts isnt out of the question.
2007-06-29 07:50:46
52.   dianagramr
49

Sorry .... maybe the Paul O'Neill era in RF warped my mind :-)

2007-06-29 07:53:07
53.   Jim Dean
50 There are alot of other ways to do it (shorten season to 154 games, schedule double headers) but they're just too damn greedy. They want each and every gate receipt.
2007-06-29 07:55:24
54.   monkeypants
48 Did he need to go "all out" and dive for the ball in order to "save the game"? Does the evidence bear out that assertion at all? Within an inning the Yankees had retaken the lead. OK, bottom of the ninth and a tie game, dive away, but in the sixth or seventh?

Also, if he slid or dove (slud or dived? slided or dave?) and missed the ball--as he did--the ball rolls into the corner for a triple or worse. Maybe the best play at that point would have been to control the ball and limit the damage to a double.

2007-06-29 07:56:48
55.   51cq24
54 had he diven instead of slidden, he would have caught the ball.
2007-06-29 07:57:54
56.   Jim Dean
51 Randy had one season and 16 million left. The Yanks picked up 2 million of that and got four crappy players in return. For Damon or Giambi, they'd have to pay close to 20 million and they'd get nothing back. It makes no sense.

At the time of the Giambi signing, we knew these years were going to show up. Same deal with Damon. But were very overpriced and well past their prime.

2007-06-29 08:01:51
57.   monkeypants
53 Agreed (uh oh, we're agreeing ?!?). Especially now that the playoffs are longer, and will only get longer if/when more teams are added to the league and/or more pressure mounts to included a second WC. The more teams and more rounds that are added to the play-offs, the less important the regular season becomes in determining the play-offs.

They should re-jigger the schedule to regularize it (all teams should play the same number of division games, inter-league games, and so forth) and this would give them an opportunity to knock a few games off the schedule.

2007-06-29 08:02:04
58.   Rich
The best chance this team has to turn their season around is to fire Torre and hire Girardi, ASAP.

Torre is in full panic mode and his tight mentality is rubbing off on the team.

His bullpen management is comical.

It's time to hold him accountable.

2007-06-29 08:02:16
59.   AbbyNormal821
47...AAARRRGH! :::grumble:::
2007-06-29 08:02:47
60.   RIYank
55 "... he would have catchen the ball." Please. We have standards here.
2007-06-29 08:03:53
61.   monkeypants
55 See, I'm not sure we can assume he would have catched it if he had dift.
2007-06-29 08:05:16
62.   buffalocharlie
54

Valid point. I was thinking more about the last two weeks that which inning it was within the current game. With all the losing, it seemed to me the appropriate time to make the head-first dive, and I do believe he would have caught it.

It does seem that Abreu is VERY cautious around outfield walls.

2007-06-29 08:07:46
63.   RIYank
61 He willed have hadden a better chance, though.
2007-06-29 08:07:52
64.   51cq24
61 had he diven and not catchen the ball, and injuren himself in the process, he would have ridden the lineup of his bat and they would have been no worse off
2007-06-29 08:10:22
65.   JL25and3
56 That came out a little garbled - are you saying that Giambi was past his prime when the Yankees signed him??????
2007-06-29 08:10:38
66.   Shaun P
26 40 Thank you again Bob.

64 Ah, but then we woulden been see'en Miggy Mantle starten in right fielden.

2007-06-29 08:12:17
67.   Bama Yankee
Man, this thread is in bad need of some Henry David Thoreau or even some Henry David Ca-catch...
2007-06-29 08:12:49
68.   51cq24
56 and you weren't sick of watching him pitch and sick of his attitude and sick of his ugly face and everything about him? just because ohlendorf and sanchez are hurt right now doesn't mean they won't be useful in the future. more useful than that one more year of an injured and infuriating old pitcher hanging sliders and never pitching inside on righties. certainly more useful than the nothing we'd get by waiting until he leaves. and where was sheffield going to play? and who was sure he'd be so good after his awful play after coming back from the wrist injury last year?
2007-06-29 08:14:31
69.   JL25and3
67 Simplify, simplify, simplify. We should stop complicating things with all the trades the Yankees should have made or shouldn't have made or should have made differently. This is what we've got today.
2007-06-29 08:14:52
70.   seamus
43 they push that button, your ass gotta go. somehow this intrigues me more than the randy johnson discussion.
2007-06-29 08:15:01
71.   rbj
26, 40 Yes, thanks Bob. It's kinda bizarre to me that in one game you could theoretically have one team with a roster of 50, and the other team only 25. Usually it would be 27 to 25, but that still seems a bit unfair.
2007-06-29 08:17:50
72.   JL25and3
70 I agree. The important philosophical question is: What'cha gonna do...without your ass? I think the Yankees are trying to figure that out, and they haven't come up with much of an answer yet.
2007-06-29 08:20:34
73.   Jim Dean
68 No, cause Randy went out there and gave them a chance to win (with 6 or 7 innings) most nights. And I was never against trading him - but for a package useful to the 2007 Yankees. The point is: They didn't have to trade him.

I'm starting to feel the same way about Shef.

But more, I'm just infuriated the team sucks this bad with 200 million spent and a GM who couldn't recognize the flaws in Decemeber in signing Cairo and Mfhdkj with nothing in the system behind them. And the guys that could help the bullpen now are low on the BFOG meter.

2007-06-29 08:22:01
74.   monkeypants
73 And they're off...
2007-06-29 08:24:22
75.   JL25and3
71 I think that if they tried to do it any other way, it would get way too complicated. Let's say they did it according to "slots." Suppose the Yankees DL'ed Myers and brought up Henn - would Henn be in the game at that point? If Myers then came off the DL and they sent down Basak, would Myers be in his own slot or Basak's? It may seem unfair this way, but it's also entirely uncomplicated.
2007-06-29 08:25:03
76.   51cq24
73 i agree that cashman left some gaping holes. i don't agree that any trades have to help the team immediately.
2007-06-29 08:25:46
77.   JL25and3
Please. Please. Let's lay off the RJ and Sheffield trades for today. Just let's not talk about them. It's only one day out of the last six months, I'm sure we can all live without it just once. Please.
2007-06-29 08:25:48
78.   Jim Dean
74 Nah. I don't have the energy today.

The sad fact is: Both Shef AND Bernie would be huge upgrades to this team.

2007-06-29 08:26:42
79.   JL25and3
77 Oh yeah, and even the M'ntk'w'cz signing.
2007-06-29 08:27:51
80.   Shaun P
70 72 74 (Desperately hoping to change the subject)

So, who's this Sun Ra dude? And isn't that the best commentary on how bad things are in Yankeeland right now - there were as many posts discussing Sun Ra (and related topics) as there were discussing last night's game (maybe more, I didn't count).

I've been a Yankee fan since I was little, but I don't know who Sun Ra is! Am I missing out?

2007-06-29 08:31:08
81.   Bama Yankee
73 See, I told you that things would make more sense to you once you figured out the BFOG stat (although, you probably need to start using BFOG+ since it is adjusted for different size bellies).
2007-06-29 08:32:07
82.   Shaun P
78 C'mon Jim, you're just trying to bait someone by bringing Bernie up.

77 79 Don't forget the BUC situation!

How is it that we managed to end all discussion of a certain injury-prone "pitcher" of Italian ancestry who dates hot women and drives fast cars, but we can't end the Sheff and Unit trade talks? I find this very disturbing. At least with the other dude, we could have used it as a segway to talk about the cars or the women. Or great Italian food!

No such avenues are present with the old dudes.

2007-06-29 08:32:22
83.   Jim Dean
77 I was gone for two weeks - those at least aren't on me!

76 Oh, yes. The pooch is screwed this season (poor little fellow). Problem was they could have solved their problems with a better navigation of the free agent market.

Instead Cash's thought process:
1) I can save over 30 million by dumping Wright, Shef, and Unit!
2) I've got 30 million - what about this Japanese lefty!
3) I can save money at 1B! We can carry a "defensive" 1B! We scored the most runs in the league last year!
4) I can save money on the bench! The bench doesn't play anyways! We scored the most runs in the league last year!
5) Look at that money I saved! I can sign THE Roger Clemens!
6) What the hell happened? We scored the most runs in the league last year!?

2007-06-29 08:34:48
84.   seamus
80 you are missing out on becoming a citizen of the greater universe! If that doesn't say it all...
2007-06-29 08:35:09
85.   Jim Dean
80 Sun Ra is a 1B and BUC that the Yanks failed to sign.

And that Italian? Notice how he's not playing until 2009? That's how it's easy to forget him. However when he signs with the Brewers for one year and 8 million and wins 18 games...

2007-06-29 08:35:25
86.   seamus
and yes, folks give the Sheff and RJ trades a rest. Nothing can change what has been done anyhow.
2007-06-29 08:35:33
87.   Shaun P
81 BFOG+ (can't stop laughing)

That's awesome, Bama. Maybe we could get Chyll to post the leaders on his blog.

Where is Chyll anyway?

2007-06-29 08:36:22
88.   Jim Dean
82 Bernie could at least still hit lefthanders.
2007-06-29 08:37:40
89.   Jim Dean
88 That said - the problem was never with Bernie - it was how the manager would have used him. Rememeber the good ole days (last year) when Torre couldn't bear to put Melky out there?
2007-06-29 08:40:23
90.   Shaun P
84 I have a hard enough time being a citizen of the state of Massachusetts. Excuse me, the "Commonwealth" of Massachusetts. I'm not sure I could accept the awesome responsibility that must be associated with being a citizen of the greater universe.

Though couldn't I argue that Massachusetts is a part of the greater universe, and thus, post hoc ergo Proctor hoc, I am already a citizen of the greater universe?

2007-06-29 08:41:40
91.   Bama Yankee
85 I thought Sun Ra was one of those new Chinese prospects we signed...

Actually, are we talking about the same Sun Ra (aka Herman Poole Blount) that was from Birmingham, Alabama (by way of Saturn of course)?

2007-06-29 08:46:44
92.   bob34957
25 Agree but optimal value has passed for Giambino and Damonic. However, They both are grinders and cna still contribute towards #27.
2007-06-29 08:47:10
93.   JL25and3
80 Sun Ra was born on Saturn. He was sent to Earth to raise the consciousness of humans and introduce them to interplanetary travel intergalactic citizenship. He not only made music, he understood that all of us are music.

From http://missioncreep.com/mw/sunra.html:
"I'm a spirit master," he said. "I've been to a zone where there is no air, no light, no sound, no life, no death, nothing. There's five billion people on this planet, all out of tune. I've got to raise their consciousness, tell them about the wonderful potential to bypass death."
He claimed that cars and rocket ships would one day run on music, presumably his music. He refused to reveal much about his past. "That's his-story," he'd say. "My story is a my-stery."

I hope that clears things up.

2007-06-29 08:52:22
94.   Bama Yankee
87 Most people don't know that BFOG+ was developed after David Wells tried to increase his BFOG by hiring Takeru Kobayashi as his personal trainer. Players such as Colter Bean and Chris Britton have been seriously affected by the new BFOG+ adjustment.
2007-06-29 08:53:37
95.   Shaun P
93 Thanks for the info. Sun Ra sounds like an interesting dude. I would have liked to see him put on a show.
2007-06-29 08:56:29
96.   JL25and3
94 It sounds much like a scale I've been using for some time. It doesn't have a name, but the unit of measurement is the guapo. El Guapo himself is the only one who's managed to reach 1.000 guapos. Britton does pretty well, he's about .800 guapos.

Wells actually doesn't score as well. He always had a big gut, but he didn't have the fat neck, fat arms, fat chest, fat everything that true guaponess requires. I swear, El Guapo had fat hair.

2007-06-29 09:00:34
97.   Bama Yankee
96 As the late Rod Beck used to say: "I've never heard of anybody going on the DL because of pulled fat"...
2007-06-29 09:12:23
98.   pistolpete
47 You sure did!

328 Yeah, tell me about it. Like A-Rod would ever be caught dead with her.

2007-06-29 09:25:42
99.   Shaun P
98 Now let's see if this thread makes it to 328 posts! Paging Sun Ra . . .

96 Many Sox fans still sport #34 "El Guapo" t-shirts in the Fenway stands (and around town). It always causes the bandwagon jumper Sox fans to ask if Big Papi has a second nickname they didn't know. =)

Ah, El Guapo. IIRC, he used to snack on the tomatoes grown in the Fenway bullpen. What a character. Sox fans always thought he lost his effectiveness when the Sox ask him to lose weight.

2007-06-29 09:37:46
100.   RIYank
99 I don't think we'll make it. Cliff will put up an "Oakland A's" thread.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-06-29 09:38:59
101.   monkeypants
328 Why the big pause?
2007-06-29 09:41:51
102.   pistolpete
100 I think every series post should just start with the headline, "You guys still here?"
2007-06-29 09:42:18
103.   vockins
I missed a Sun Ra thread? Dammit!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=5LmG7wSN3sA

2007-06-29 10:07:00
104.   Zack
Man, heres the problem with living on the West Coast. I don't get to checking my computer until 10:00 AM and the thread is already up to about 105 and talking about all sorts of good stuff...sigh.

IIRC, Guapo was just voted the most popular reliever in Red Sox history or some such.

2007-06-29 10:08:28
105.   weeping for brunnhilde
101 Waka waka!
2007-06-29 10:08:56
106.   weeping for brunnhilde
102 :)

Nice.

2007-06-29 10:10:42
107.   hoppystone
Sorry I missed the Sun Ra party, but have to throw this anecdote in. Overheard at the bar at the Bottom Line:

Rashied Ali: How's Sunny?

John Gilmore: Sunny's out.

Rashied Ali: Sunny stays out!

In the subsequent gig, Sun Ra took an extended organ solo by himself on his Farfisa, using mostly his palms and forearms, so loud it was threatening to decimate the sound system. About halfway through it, two horn players came over and very slowly and reverentially tilted the keyboard on its stand so it was facing the audience. And Sunny kept right on blowing.

The gig ended with him leading the audience in singing his anthem:

"Come on let's take a journey - to Saturn...

Saturn is the planet of discipline -
Saturn is the great taskmaster

Come on let's take a journey - to Saturn...

Saturn takes 29-1/2 years to make a -
complete circle of the universe"

... and it was so catchy that I'm still singin' it 25 years later.
The Arkestra was quite possibly the best live act of all time.

2007-06-29 10:21:10
108.   weeping for brunnhilde
So there's yet another Yankees-Red Sox game on YES classics.

Why is YES' selection of "classic" games so unimaginative? They're all from within the last five years or so.

Why don't they ever show interesting games, like from the 1970s and '80s?

Do they not own the rights to those games or something?

Such a waste of resources.

2007-06-29 10:23:22
109.   Zack
I really wish YES would start showing minor league games during the day, like the night before's or something...
2007-06-29 10:26:54
110.   Zack
I think at this point I am purely waiting to see Hughes come back, thats pretty much the only thing for me to watch..besides A-God of course...
2007-06-29 10:32:37
111.   pistolpete
108 Were there any actual 'classic' games in the 80's?
2007-06-29 10:39:52
112.   Zack
111 They could show the Hawkins "no-hitter" but I think YES only shows wins. WHich makes the 80s a bit hard. I'm sure they've played the July 4th game over and over and over...

And I think all games with Mel Hall in them might be rejected too...

2007-06-29 10:39:56
113.   mehmattski
111 I think YES should sum up the effort of the current team and show this game:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CHA/CHA199007010.shtml

2007-06-29 10:40:19
114.   mehmattski
112 You beat me by four seconds...
2007-06-29 10:41:51
115.   mehmattski
112 And also, the Yankees had more wins than any other team from 1981-1989. It was sustained second place play for a decade, while teams like the Tigers, Red Sox, and A's rose and fell.
2007-06-29 10:44:38
116.   Shaun P
111 Rags' July 4th no hitter of the Sox in '83 is one of many.

108 I'm pretty sure the Yanks own the rights to all the old MSG broadcasts, but I don't know if they own the rights to the old WPIX broadcasts. Then again, I seem to remember watching a rebroadcast of Rags' no-no on YES a few years ago. Paging media-master Will Weiss . . .

(Hey, that paging thing worked last time.)

109 You could always sign up for MiLB.tv, which is cheap and awesome (or so I'm told). 700 games for $30 is a pretty good deal IMHO.

You can also register for MiLB Gameday Audio, which I think is free and covers every game.

2007-06-29 10:44:46
117.   pistolpete
I'd actually like to see a lot of the Old Timer's Day games when both Mantle and Maris were still alive...

I remember going to a few when I was younger, but for obvious reasons I couldn't appreciate it as much as I would seeing it now...

2007-06-29 10:44:51
118.   monkeypants
112 114 Maybe they could run a sort of Mel Hall/Luis Polonia day.
2007-06-29 10:47:32
119.   mehmattski
The Yankees who made errors in the four run eighth inning during Hawkins' no-hitter:

3B Mike Blowers (booted a ground ball)
RF Jesse Barfield (dropped a popup, three runs score)
LF Jim Leyritz (dropped fly ball, one run scores)

2007-06-29 10:53:39
120.   KJC
99 El Guapo is still pitching in New Hampshire:
http://tinyurl.com/2c44aa
2007-06-29 11:06:22
121.   JL25and3
107 I never saw Rahsaan Roland Kirk live, but I understand his was also quite a show. Probably not up there with Sun Ra, though - Kirk was pretty out there, but still merely terrestrial.
2007-06-29 11:07:18
122.   JL25and3
119 I remember Leyritz's error vividly. It was a classic little league "I got it, I got it, I got it, oops!"
2007-06-29 11:18:40
123.   weeping for brunnhilde
111 Any game featuring the skills of Rickey, Mattingly and Winfield in their primes would have to count as "classic" in my book, don't you think?
2007-06-29 11:55:05
124.   Zack
Is it bad that because of the title of this thread I have Journey running through my head? Yeah, its gonna be a great day...
2007-06-29 11:58:30
125.   Max
121 I had a serious thing for Kirk for a while, though I'm not old enough to have seen him live in his prime. Not as out there as Ra, but that made it easier to play his stuff for friends. He was still pretty amazing, though, with his ability to play multiple instruments in a soulful way.

True story: my sister had a crush on a record store clerk in San Francisco, and was looking for an excuse to call him back. She asked me for the name of an obscure album so that she could have him search for it. I gave her the names of two Rashaan Roland Kirk albums to stump the clerk with.

2007-06-29 12:03:23
126.   bp1
124 Yeah, and along those lines (re: the title) I dunno if I'm ready to stop believin' or what. I'd just like to squeeze my eyes shut and pretend the last three series didn't happen. I tell ya - there have been aliens at work this year - body snatching pod growing aliens. That's the only explanation I can come up with for some of the positively un-Yankee-like things we've experienced this year. Maybe the new stadium is affecting things like the spacecraft in Tommyknockers? Something is sucking the life out of this team.
2007-06-29 12:09:47
127.   Zack
126 Bizzaro Yankees, obviously...
2007-06-29 12:14:43
128.   JL25and3
127 Uh-oh. Does that mean that it's really a Bizarro ARod getting clutch hits?
2007-06-29 12:17:06
129.   bp1
128 Well, there was that GIDP w/ bases loaded yesterday.

I kid. I kid.

2007-06-29 12:17:23
130.   pistolpete
123 Or any game where Winny let go of the bat and it went flying into the stands...
2007-06-29 12:28:57
131.   Zack
128 Hmm, or perhaps A-Rod is really the Superman against whom all the rest of the bizarro-Yankees are are set. its all a continued elaborate scheme to destroy A-Rod and get him out of town..Mwahahahaha!!
2007-06-29 12:42:09
132.   thelarmis
105 waka jawaka!

125 roland kirk was great and that's an excellent story. ornette coleman was also fantastic but my favorite 'out' guy ever was the one and only Eric Dolphy. he was so unique and distinctive and i've never heard any instrumentalist be so individual in any genre. his fire/energy/passion/intention was unsurpassed. there's a great 9cd box set out on Prestige Records.

Clemens oughtta trade in his "Rocket Man" song for Sun Ra's "Rocket Number 9 Takes Off For The Planet Venus"!!!

2007-06-29 13:08:38
133.   JL25and3
131 Hmmm...that might also explain why they picked up his "friend," Doug Mxyzptlk.
2007-06-29 13:43:50
134.   Schteeve
58 I think they should shitcan Torre, but I don't think that replacing him is going to have a meaningful effect on the team's record this year.

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