Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
The San Francisco Giants
2007-06-22 14:53
by Cliff Corcoran
Note: The Bronx Banter blog has moved to

From 1997 to 2004, the San Francisco Giants finished first or second in the NL West eight years in a row, thrice winning the division and once making the World Series as the Wild Card team. In 2005, Barry Bonds' knee gave out on him, limiting him to 14 September games. Since then, the Giants have been a sub-.500 also ran. Always an old team, the Giants of the last three years have been downright ancient. When Barry Bonds joined the Giants in 1993 at the age of 28, the average Giants hitter was also 28 years old. Since then, the Giants hitters have steadily aged with Bonds. Last year, the average San Francisco hitter was 33.5 years old. This year they've shaved a few moths off that average age by doing things such as replacing the 41-year-old Steve Finley and the 39-year-old Moises Alou with 35-year-olds Dave Roberts and Rich Aurilia.

The creaky Giants ran off eight-straight wins in late April to slip into a first-place tie in the West, but the geezers ran out of gas there. They've been 18-33 since, are 5-14 in June, and have lost seven in a row coming into this weekend's series against the Yankees. During that slide they've scored an average of 3.14 runs per game and allowed an average of 6.43. Overall, the Gians have one of the four worst offenses in baseball, ahead of only the Pirates, Nationals, and White Sox. Omar Vizquel looks to finally be finished at 40, those 35-year-olds have been nearly as bad (though Roberts can still run, stealing 11 of 12, and Aurilia's on the DL, yielding first base to a resurgent 36-year-old Ryan Klesko). Worst of all, Barry Bonds, who's up to his old tricks, is being protected in the lineup by Bengie Molina. Seriously. No surprise then that Bonds already has 70 walks, 26 of them intentional.

I should say, Bonds was up to his old tricks. This particular geezer's been a bit winded himself, hitting just three homers in his last 36 games, batting .240 and slugging just .385 over that span. For those not keeping track, he's seven homers shy of Hank Aaron's career record. At that pace, he'll barely make it this season.

Things are a bit brighter on the pitching side of the ledger as long as you don't look too closely. Twenty-two-year-old Matt Cain, who starts tonight, leads the team in ERA and is fifth in the NL in least hits allowed per nine innings. He's also second in the league in most walks allowed and is getting a little help from a low BABIP (.257). Matt Morris has rediscovered his 20-game winning form in his second season in San Francisco, or seems to have until you notice that his strike out rate is continuing it's now six-year decline and his K/BB ratio is a dismal 1.55. Barry Zito is proving all his doubters right by echoing Morris's strikeout rate issues. Similar afflictions have struck Noah Lowry, who lost 2 2/3 K/9 last year and has gained more than a walk per nine innings this year. Top prospect Tim Lincecum is another issue altogether, as the existence of major league game film on the rookie and some wildness issues appear to have torpedoed what had been a sensational start to his career. The Yankees won't see him this weekend, which is unfortunate both because he's been ineffective and because his delivery is an exciting thing to watch.

In the bullpen, the Giants cut bait on Armando Benitez, sending him to Florida for Randy Messenger and installing another strikeout-challenged starter, Brad Hennessey, as the closer. Set-up men Vinnie Chulk, who came over in the Shea Hillenbrand trade last year, and Kevin Correia, another converted starter, have been solid, but the pen's trio of lefties have been less reliable. Veteran Steve Kline, for example, has struck out just five men in 19 innings thus far.

What is it about Corporation Ballpark that suppresses strikeouts anyway? The Giants hitters don't really strikeout that much either. Only two NL teams have fewer batter strikeouts and only four have fewer pitcher strikeouts. That's bad news for Kei Igawa, who will be making his return to the rotation tonight. Ks are a big part of Kei's game, as he struck out 21 in his last 20 innings after sorting out his mechanics in Scranton. The good news for the lefty Igawa is that the Giants have only two righties in their everyday lineup and of their three switch hitters, Ray Durham and Randy Winn are much weaker from the right side and Vizquel isn't hitting under any circumstances. Once again, here's Igawa's line over his last three starts in Scranton:

20 IP, 15 H, 4 ER, 6 BB, 21 K, 1.05 WHIP, 1.80 ERA

Let's hope that translates back to the majors. If Igawa can keep the fifth spot in the rotation warm for Phil Hughes, the Yankees will not only have a better shot of climbing into the Wild Card race, but they'll be able to be more cautious with Hughes coming off his severe ankle sprain, which is crucial to protecting his arm from a cascade injury caused by his adjusting his mechanics to protect his ankle.

San Francisco Giants

2006 Record: 76-85 (.469)
2006 Pythagorean Record: 76-85 (.471)

Manager: Bruce Bochy
General Manager: Brian Sabean

Home Ballpark (2006 Park Factors): [Your Name Here] Park (100/100)

Who's Replacing Whom?

Dave Roberts replaces Steve Finley
Rich Aurilia replaces Moises Alou
Ryan Klesko replaces Shea Hillenbrand
Nate Schierholtz replaces Fred Lewis (DL) who replaces Lance Niekro
Bengie Molina replaces Mike Matheny and Todd Greene and some Eliezer Alfonzo
Guillermo Rodriguez replaces the rest of Eliezer Alfonzo (DL)
Luis Figueroa replaces Jose Vizcaino
Barry Zito replaces Jason Schmidt
Tim Lincecum replaces Jamey Wright
Randy Messenger replaces Armando Benitez on the roster while Brad Hennessey replaces him as closer
Vinnie Chulk replaces Jeremy Accardo
Jack Taschner replaces Mike Stanton

25-man Roster:

1B – Ryan Klesko (L)
2B – Ray Durham (S)
SS – Omar Vizquel (S)
3B – Pedro Feliz (R)
C – Bengie Molina (R)
RF – Randy Winn (S)
CF – Dave Roberts (L)
LF – Barry Bonds (L)


L - Mark Sweeney (1B)
R - Kevin Fransden (IF)
L - Nate Schierholtz (OF)
S - Luis Figueroa (IF)
R - Guillermo Rodriguez (C)


L - Barry Zito
R - Matt Cain
R - Matt Morris
L - Noah Lowry
R - Tim Lincecum


R - Brad Hennessey
R - Kevin Correia
R - Vinnie Chulk
L - Jack Taschner
R - Randy Messenger
L - Steve Kline
L - Jonathan Sanchez

15-day DL: R - Rich Aurilia (UT), L - Fred Lewis (OF), R - Russ Ortiz
60-day DL: R - Eliezer Alfonzo (C)

Typical Lineup:

L - Dave Roberts (CF)
S - Randy Winn (RF)
S - Ray Durham (3B)
L - Barry Bonds (LF)
R - Bengie Molina (C)
L - Ryan Klesko (1B)
R - Pedro Feliz (3B)
S - Omar Vizquel (SS)

Comments (415)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-06-22 16:50:18
1.   tommyl
Phelps was claimed by the Pirates off waivers today and one can cue the sarcastic PeteAbe post.

I for one kinda have a soft spot for the guy. Here's hoping he rakes for them.

2007-06-22 16:51:36
2.   rabid stan
A team that grossly overpaid for a free agent LHP in the off-season, balanced by a rookie phenom who's hit a rough patch, carrying an old, lefty/switch-heavy lineup including a challenger for the all-time homerun record and working on their latest losing streak in a disappointing season (one hefty winning streak excepted).

Hey everybody, it's twins!

Well, the Yankees are three and a half months older, by average age.

2007-06-22 16:53:48
3.   monkeypants
2 Yeah, Pete Abe seems to have some sort of hard on for the guy. I mean, he ragged him he whole time he was on the team, but at least he's blogging on the Yanks. But after he's been DFA'd? Do you think Pete has a secret closet in his house with a bunch of poloroids and newsclippings of Phelps tacked on the wall?
2007-06-22 16:55:12
4.   monkeypants
3 Errr, that should have been 1.
2007-06-22 17:06:30
5.   tommyl
3 Honestly I have no idea. What amazes me is Pete is usually a really intelligent, reasonable guy but his attitude towards Phelps was basically Torresque. Over and over again people would point out to him how far to the right on the defensive spectrum 1B was, how few opportunities for "great" plays there are and how much better offensively he was than anyone else there. Then Pete would reply that MXYZ or Cairo just dug out some horrible Jeter/A-Rod throw, and that's the kinda thing that saves the team. Nevermind that neither of them can hit a flyball to the outfield to drive a runner in from third with less than two outs.
2007-06-22 17:07:54
6.   tommyl
3 Further, you want to say Phelps is a crappy option. Fine, back it up, and with something more than measuring his "grittiness," the size of his nose and the fact that he made a couple of crappy throws on the first game he was the nominal starter. One game, but hey, no pressure kid. Maybe next time Jeter has a 2-error game, we DFA him?
2007-06-22 17:21:52
7.   Chyll Will
6 No one would ever DFA Jeter's nose because it's full of guts (remember that face-first dive into the stands?) Poor Josh, compared to that his nose blows...

Here's to Phelps; may his nose show enough grittiness to bat .350 the rest of the way and win the Gold Glove! (sniff)

2007-06-22 17:30:20
8.   monkeypants
6 To keep flogging the dead horse. I'm bothered by how it seemed personal. Did he ever interview Phelps, maybe get his perspective on being moved into the field where he was clearly less than comfortable? Also, if Phelps' defense was soooo bad, as Pete Abe repeated, why didn't he act like a journalist and press the team on why he made the team as the primary back-up first baseman. Didn't the FO notice anytime in spring that he couldn't use the glove? Didn't they have any plan other than throw Cairo in there? Did Pete Abe blog on how a team with a 200 million dollar budget could be so hamstrung by an injury to...Stinky Minky? Nope--he just mocked Phelps as if his weaknesses were some sort of moral failing, while singing the praises of Cairo to the stars.

I don't mean this as shot at Cairo or a panegyric to Phelps, but rather to point out what I see as Pete Abe's laziness at best, downright meanness at worst when it comes to the Yankees firstbase situation.

2007-06-22 17:51:45
9.   Bob Timmermann
As a West Coaster here, I can tell you that these three games are going to be long slogs. The Giants are not a particularly interesting team to watch.

You can go and wonder how Matt Cain is 2-7 and the Giants are 2-12 when he starts when he is actually pretty good.

You can marvel at Bengie Molina's sloth.

And try to discern the difference between the Giants bad relievers and the Yankees bad relievers.

2007-06-22 18:13:48
10.   rilkefan
9 - Last Giants game I went to lasted 17 innings - no thanks.
2007-06-22 18:14:30
11.   OldYanksFan
According to PeteAbe:
The Yankees were 21 of 94 (.223) with one homer in three games at Coors Field. Raise your hand if you saw that coming. They drew five walks and struck out 22 times.

When they did get on base, it got worse as they were 1 for 17 with runners in scoring position.

Frankly, I don't think any of us should be allowed to make fun of any team for the rest of the season. Those numbers above should revoke our rights.

If we DO walk Bonds and DONT walk the pitcher, I feel good about this series.

2007-06-22 18:50:21
12.   randym77
PeteAbe now has an update saying he only picks on Phelps because it gets people worked up.

Honestly, I think that's why he posts half the things he posts. He calls Kevin Thompson "future hall of famer Kevin Thompson," he wrote a headline saying Bubba Crosby ripped Torre and the Yanks when he did nothing of the sort (and the author of the article he referenced actually came over the NY blogs to protest), not to mention the whole Phil Hughes thing. He just likes riling people up.

2007-06-22 18:51:09
13.   Mattpat11
Abraham is a huge fan of the Stink and i think this is a reaction to people prestedly pointing out that he's horrid.
2007-06-22 18:52:43
14.   tommyl
Ladies and gentlemen, your starting first basemen, number 41 Miggy Mantle, number 41.

Best damn .238 hitter in baseball! (Which isn't even true, since his OBP and SLG are crap too).

Look, I like Cairo, I like his attitude, I think he's a passable late inning defensive replacement for a middle infield position. But he has got to be the worst starting 1B in the league.

2007-06-22 18:52:59
15.   Mattpat11
There are Bubba Crosby fans to rile up?


2007-06-22 18:53:53
16.   tommyl
Oh wait...I just learned something. Cairo's middle name is Jesus. Maybe Joe thinks he's the Messiah?
2007-06-22 18:56:14
17.   Mattpat11
14 I'm telling you, we're saving Phillips as the secret weapon off the bench in the late innings to lead the Yankees to the promised land.

Provided of course, the opposing pitcher is a mediocre lefty that throws nothing but fastballs. But not good fastballs. And not too slow. 90 mph fastballs with no movement. And it can't be a big spot.

2007-06-22 18:56:37
18.   monkeypants
14 That must be a record for Torre. They called up Phillips, whom Torre praised at teh time for both his glove and bat, and he was banished after only one game! And again, this is not a slam on Cairo or even a defense of Phillips--I'm just commenting oon the farcical personnel decisions.
2007-06-22 18:58:07
19.   monkeypants
17 Hey Mattpat11, this lineup confirms the Torre-loves-Phillips theory!
2007-06-22 18:59:28
20.   randym77
Well, I guess we'll find out tonight if Miggy is the key to the Yanks' success.
2007-06-22 19:01:36
21.   Mattpat11
19 Hey, I'd rather he not. If I'm wrong, all the better.
2007-06-22 19:01:52
22.   monkeypants
20 Didn't we find that out last night, when he went 0-2 but had that critical sac bunt.
2007-06-22 19:01:59
23.   tommyl
18 Look Phillips is not the answer, but I agree with you. If you call the kid up, let him play for at least a freakin' week before burying him again. This past week was a perfect lesson in why you can't afford to give up offense in any position. If A-Rod and Abreu have a bad game, we basically score no runs. That's an exaggeration, but its not far off.
2007-06-22 19:02:20
24.   tommyl
22 Yeah, which made us lose by one run, not two.
2007-06-22 19:03:37
25.   Mattpat11
In other exciting news, here comes Igawa!
2007-06-22 19:04:21
26.   monkeypants
24 Winning baseball!
2007-06-22 19:05:25
27.   Mattpat11
23 I agree to an extent. There's no good reason to repeat the Phillips experiment. But if he's up, we might as well let him fail on his own and get it over with.
2007-06-22 19:06:58
28.   randym77
Griffey returns to Seattle for the first time tonight. He was afraid they'd boo him like they boo A-Rod, but the fans gave him a very warm welcome.
2007-06-22 19:07:15
29.   tommyl
Ah, remember the good old days, when our biggest worry on the year was why A-Rod and Jeter don't have sleepovers anymore? I miss those days.
2007-06-22 19:08:22
30.   Mattpat11
28 He's giving a speech for some unknown reason.
2007-06-22 19:08:26
31.   tommyl
27 Why is Shelley Duncan not an option? He's 27 years old, he's raking at AAA, there's a big opening in the position he plays. Um, shouldn't we at least try the kid for a week or two?
2007-06-22 19:11:41
32.   monkeypants
31 I agree entirely. In fact, if they were going to DFA Phelps before going on an NL road trip (where they would need more PH), they should have called up Phillips and Duncan. Duncan should be given a chance to see just how fluky this AAA year is, and Phillips should be used as the back-up 1B, depseration PH, and desperation BUIF. Oh yeah, Basak should be sent down.
2007-06-22 19:11:55
33.   Mattpat11
31 I think the fact that he's a 27 year old career minor leaguer who never hit before this year is setting off warning bells.

But I'd still try him over the guy who couldn't do it last time.

2007-06-22 19:12:55
34.   monkeypants
31 Let me rephrase--I don't entirely agree. He should be tried out for one game, or maybe two PH appearances. If he doesn't produce, bury him on the bench (but never use him or send him back to AAA).
2007-06-22 19:12:58
35.   Jim Dean
31 Because they have Miguel Cairo!

2005 = 64 OPS+
2006 = 59 OPS+
2007 = 57 OPS+

And I thought it couldn't get any worse. Now he's the starting 1B - un-fucking-believeable...

2007-06-22 19:15:34
36.   monkeypants
33 Actually, he has hit some before in MiLB (.800+ OPS at A, AA, and AAA), but his most successful seasons seem to come when he is old for his level, so you are correct in general: warning bells.
2007-06-22 19:15:34
37.   tommyl
35 Yeah Jim, I was recalling when you were complaining that he was the backup IF. Sometimes you just have to laugh. Hey, at least we don't have Dusty Baker managing, then he'd be annoyed at all those people clogging the basepaths.
2007-06-22 19:15:54
38.   tommyl
Oh we get to see Igawa bat (well maybe)! That alone is worth the price of admission.
2007-06-22 19:16:07
39.   Emma Span
Kei Igawa: 2 Fast 2 Furious!

By the way guys, while Omar Vizquel does indeed look finished at the plate 0, he is still truly a thing of beauty at shortstop... at least, he was when they played the Mets earlier this year. A real treat to watch if you like, as Weeping would put it, the aesthetics of the game.

2007-06-22 19:16:13
40.   Jim Dean
Not only did Damon's ribcage get worse by playing yesterday - his legs started to cramp up.
2007-06-22 19:16:23
41.   tommyl
36 I agree, its unlikely he's the answer. But isn't he at least worth a try before the trading deadline?
2007-06-22 19:18:35
42.   williamnyy23
I wonder what the Yankees record is when Cabrera leads off. It seems rather silly to ensure that one of your worst hitters bats the most.
2007-06-22 19:20:07
43.   monkeypants
42 I was going to bitch about Cabrera leading off, too. But then it occurred to me, it's really just like Jeter leading off but with one out.
2007-06-22 19:20:09
44.   Jim Dean
37 Actually I wanted to gouge out my eyes back then at the prospect of bringing back a 59 OPS+ guy to give another 200 AB's.


I want to light myself on fire while a flesh-eating virus feasts on my innards.

2007-06-22 19:21:18
45.   tommyl
Alright, now we get to see Quest 2.0.
2007-06-22 19:21:56
46.   Raf
30 The speech was probably because it is Griffey's first time back in 7 years? Granted things didn't end too well, but he meant a lot to that franchise.
2007-06-22 19:23:58
47.   tommyl
You know, I still can't look at Dave Roberts and not cringe.
2007-06-22 19:24:00
48.   Mattpat11
41 Eh. I'd sort of worry that he'd start hot and fool the team into thinking we don't need a solution. That's my fear with all these options that we know aren't really any good.
2007-06-22 19:24:19
49.   randym77
46 Yes. They credit him for saving baseball in Seattle and getting that ballpark built. They have special "welcome back Griffey" baseballs for the game.
2007-06-22 19:24:38
50.   Mattpat11
46 He's still active. They had a ceremony for an active player on the other team.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-06-22 19:25:43
51.   Mattpat11
Kay is talking about the exciting prospect on Igawa reaching the lofty heights of "acceptable fifth starter"
2007-06-22 19:26:44
52.   tommyl
51 Whatever, I'd take that. Just eat some innings, give up 3-4 runs or so. That's fine by me.
2007-06-22 19:27:29
53.   seamus
52 me too. There aren't enough pitchers for every team to have "adequate fifth starter". Just look around the league.
2007-06-22 19:27:38
54.   tommyl
C'mon Kay, a little bit better? He didn't go to 3 balls on anyone, nearly every pitch was down.
2007-06-22 19:27:49
55.   Mattpat11
52 46 million dollars.

And I'd consider eating innings and giving up three runs to be better than a fifth starter.

2007-06-22 19:28:03
56.   tommyl
53 Don't need to. I can just look on the Yankees ;)
2007-06-22 19:28:12
57.   ny2ca2dc
that high changeup was scary. But real nice inning, Kei; at least he was missing low (and not by much) with the FB for the first hitter.
2007-06-22 19:28:49
58.   seamus
56 lol! nice one.
2007-06-22 19:29:51
59.   Mattpat11
53 I'm not a big fan of breaking the bank for a fifth starter. Nor am I really a fan of signing fifth starters in general.
2007-06-22 19:30:21
60.   seamus
59 yeah. we should just start someone who is #8 quality.
2007-06-22 19:30:23
61.   tommyl
Well A-Rod can still hit.
2007-06-22 19:30:35
62.   Mattpat11
Barry moseyed on over to that ball.
2007-06-22 19:30:46
63.   seamus
woo hoo! a god lookie good.
2007-06-22 19:31:51
64.   monkeypants
59 Breaking the bank is a relative term for the Yankees. I do, however, agree that teams put too much emphasis of the fifth starter, five man rotation or not. They really should just have a couple of swing men.
2007-06-22 19:32:44
65.   tommyl
Yay! We scored a run!
2007-06-22 19:32:44
66.   OldYanksFan
"The elder (Cecil) Fielder earned almost $47 million during his career, enough to take care of his family for several generations. But according to a 2004 story by The Detroit News, Cecil Fielder squandered that fortune through gambling and bad business decisions."

Er.. even with taxes, how does one 'squander' 40+ million dollars?

2007-06-22 19:33:05
67.   Mattpat11
59 Like Kei Igawa?

If you're going to write off one of your rotation spots, I'd rather just call someone up and let them try it out then spend tens of millions of dollars on someone so they can fill the role of worst starter on the team.

2007-06-22 19:33:27
68.   tommyl
66 Ask Mike Tyson.
2007-06-22 19:33:30
69.   seamus
66 no idea. wish i knew.
2007-06-22 19:33:34
70.   ny2ca2dc
as usual, man on third, Matsui up, and Matsui delivers.
2007-06-22 19:33:34
71.   monkeypants
Woo-hoo, winning baseball! That should close the Yankees' scoring for the evening.
2007-06-22 19:34:00
72.   Jim Dean
Sterling is about to have an orgasm. I wonder if Suzyn has helped him relieve some stress on the road.
2007-06-22 19:34:21
73.   Mattpat11
64 46 mil all said and done. Even if you want to call it 4 mil per year, we could have used that to go after an actual bench.
2007-06-22 19:34:41
74.   ny2ca2dc
66 Dude; women and booze. women and booze. it's always women, and booze.
2007-06-22 19:34:48
75.   seamus
67 you just complained that he might be an adequate #5. now you want to argue something different?
2007-06-22 19:35:19
76.   seamus
cano with the rockin' hit!
2007-06-22 19:35:38
77.   Jim Dean
74 I prefer hos and coke.
2007-06-22 19:36:11
78.   seamus
77 i thought you were a whiskey guy.
2007-06-22 19:36:53
79.   tommyl
77 Not sausages?
2007-06-22 19:37:10
80.   williamnyy23
The Yankees have won with bad 5th starters before...what worries me are the 4-5 below average hitters currently in the lineup.
2007-06-22 19:37:20
81.   seamus
2007-06-22 19:37:30
82.   OldYanksFan
I really, really don't want to have to watch the Yankees next year without ARod.
2007-06-22 19:37:46
83.   seamus
80 name all 4-5.
2007-06-22 19:37:49
84.   Mattpat11
75 I'll always have issued with spending millions of dollars in hopes of getting a bad pitcher (or adequate number five)

I have real doubts Igawa can even get that good. I lean more towards the "long reliever" part of the exciting "fifth starter or long reliever" projection we got when we signed him.

2007-06-22 19:37:51
85.   Jim Dean
78 Nah - I'm immune. Probably cause Ma mainlined the bourbon during my preganancy. That and smack.
2007-06-22 19:38:40
86.   seamus
cairo working the count!
2007-06-22 19:38:45
87.   Mattpat11
MiggyMania running wild.
2007-06-22 19:39:07
88.   seamus
wtf with the erasing the guy?
2007-06-22 19:39:29
89.   williamnyy23
83 Damon - 87 OPS+; Abreu 98 OPS+; Cano 95 ops+; Cabrera 77OPS+; Cairo 57 ops+
2007-06-22 19:39:30
90.   seamus
I like this. Now Igawa makes last out and we can start third with melky.
2007-06-22 19:39:33
91.   ny2ca2dc
I have a much better feeling about the offense today.

and cairo walks! bring up the pitcher, hell ya.

2007-06-22 19:40:45
92.   ny2ca2dc
now just walk the pitcher too, that would be greeeaaatttt
2007-06-22 19:40:59
93.   Jim Dean
Speaking of smack - anyone else ever read the Mnookin addicted to smack piece?

I think he left out the part about blowing a Yankee fan for a score. That would explain his bitterness - for him at least.

2007-06-22 19:41:00
94.   seamus
89 umm, Cairo is below AVERAGE. The others have had off starts, but below average hitters?
2007-06-22 19:41:15
95.   tommyl
Hey, Bobby's been helping Kei. Fouling off pitches, working a full count.
2007-06-22 19:41:27
96.   seamus
igawa does not look scary as batter.
2007-06-22 19:41:43
97.   monkeypants
83 Assuming an AL lineup, currently Melky, Damon, Abreu, Cano, and Cairo are <100 OPS+, without even getting into the bench players (Nieves, Phillips, Basak) who play on a given day. Now, maybe Cano and Abreu pick it up this year, but right now the bats are hard to come by.
2007-06-22 19:41:44
98.   Mattpat11
Igawa's a better hitter than he is a pitcher.
2007-06-22 19:41:48
99.   seamus
2007-06-22 19:41:50
100.   randym77
92 You're psychic!
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-06-22 19:42:01
101.   WeMissPaulie
OMG. Hell just froze over.
2007-06-22 19:42:03
102.   ny2ca2dc
2007-06-22 19:42:26
103.   seamus
97 not if you erase their admittedly bad Aprils and consider that Abreu and Cano in particular are known slow starters.
2007-06-22 19:42:43
104.   monkeypants
90 Even better, if Melky makes out we can start the 3rd with Jeter.
2007-06-22 19:43:15
105.   tommyl
Now, the pitcher getting a walk. That is winning baseball!
2007-06-22 19:43:17
106.   seamus
104 and his pitch count climbs...
2007-06-22 19:43:24
107.   Mattpat11
103 If you're going to pick and choose what to count and what to discount, they can all be great hitters.
2007-06-22 19:43:24
108.   seamus
2007-06-22 19:43:37
109.   Jim Dean
89 You're better than that.
2007-06-22 19:43:42
110.   monkeypants
98 Has he ever played 1B? ; )

Woo-hoo Melky!!

2007-06-22 19:43:48
111.   ny2ca2dc
fuck me hell ya!
2007-06-22 19:44:07
112.   seamus
103 who is picking and choosing? Using only two months of numbers weighed down by a slow start, and ignoring career numbers is picking and choosing. I was fixing that error.
2007-06-22 19:44:45
113.   seamus
112 make that 3 months.
2007-06-22 19:44:50
114.   Jim Dean
Why the hell is Jeter swinging first pitch?
2007-06-22 19:44:57
115.   WeMissPaulie
Thats alright....good start. CAIRO!
2007-06-22 19:45:06
116.   williamnyy23
94 This year, they have all been below average hitters. There are more than enough games in the bank to start getting concerned. That doesn't mean Cano, for example, will be a below average hitter for his career, but perhap he will be this year. In summary, Cairo is awful, Cabrera is a 91 OPS+ for his career and Damon seems as if he will suffer from chronic injuries all year. So, if either Abreu or Cano continues at their current pace, the lineup is looking at 4-5 below average hitters in 2007.
2007-06-22 19:45:07
117.   seamus
114 because he can't hit like igawa can.
2007-06-22 19:45:42
118.   ny2ca2dc
114 seriously. I mean, the pitcher just walked the.... OTHER PITCHER... make him throw strikes.

awe forget it, i'm not going to question a .340 hitter. at least he didn't try a bunt.

2007-06-22 19:46:38
119.   Emma Span
Boy, Bonds doesn't exactly kill himself chasing balls down in left field, does he?
2007-06-22 19:46:39
120.   seamus
igawa v bonds. very scary.
2007-06-22 19:46:39
121.   Jim Dean
116 That's alot of if's. Lumping that crew with Cairo is beyond realm of sane logic.
2007-06-22 19:47:02
122.   Jim Dean
116 That's alot of if's. Lumping that crew with Cairo is beyond realm of sane logic.
2007-06-22 19:47:05
123.   seamus
119 don't you think that calling that "chasing" is a tad bit generous?
2007-06-22 19:47:12
124.   ny2ca2dc
Bonds' elbow guard always makes me giggle, it's like a frigin bionic limb.
2007-06-22 19:47:29
125.   Max
117 That sure as heck puzzled me as well...the pitcher working a better at bat than our Captain. Oh well.
2007-06-22 19:48:16
126.   seamus
that was high, but nice and tight. was that where he wanted that pitch?
2007-06-22 19:49:22
127.   Mattpat11
Robinson Cano has 1300 AB. He has no real career to base anything off of.

I also think its a stretch to call Abreu a slow starter. He gets better as the year goes on, but his numbers are usually good in April and May.

2007-06-22 19:49:38
128.   OldYanksFan
Wow... I didn't know Jon Miller is a SF announcer. It was really scary until I realized there's no Joe Morgan.
2007-06-22 19:51:05
129.   Mattpat11
IggyMania is running wild. This is so exciting.

This game will keep him on the team for the next month.

2007-06-22 19:51:53
130.   monkeypants
122 That's true. Cairo is not even on the map. The more interesting question is how to evaluiate the other four. Is the real Cano the 2005 or 2006 model? Is Damon just banged up, or sliding into his Ghost of Bernie phase? Melky is a career 91 OPS+. Abreu is really the only one I expect to start hitting dramatically better.
2007-06-22 19:53:26
131.   williamnyy23
122 What are the "ifs"? Cairo and Cabrera are below average hitters. If Damon continues to be injured, it isn't a stretch to think he'll be below average. So, that leaves Cano and Abreu. Personally, I think Abreau will wind up around 120+, but I could see Cano hovering around 100. I am not suggesting that the others are as bad as Cano, but collectively they have been and could continue to be below average.
2007-06-22 19:54:16
132.   tommyl
130 Even healthy, Damon has had off years, 2001, 2003, etc.
2007-06-22 19:55:53
133.   Shaun P
If Sliced Bread is reading this, thank you, little Matthew is settling in just fine. If he wakes up in the next couple of hours, he will get to 'watch' his first Yankees game. I'm excited, but I won't mind if he keeps sleeping either.

And yes, by chance (or providence), he was never awake during any of the Colorado games, so he missed them all. =)

Go Yanks!

2007-06-22 19:56:46
134.   seamus
2007-06-22 19:58:12
135.   williamnyy23
131 That was supposed to read "as bad as Cairo", not Cano.
2007-06-22 19:58:33
136.   monkeypants
OK, second A-Rod AB, third inning, and Miller brought up A-Rod's contract and opt out clause. Now, does it end there, or do we get to hear about that for the rest of the night?
2007-06-22 20:00:34
137.   seamus
136 oh, i hope it ends there.
2007-06-22 20:00:34
138.   Mattpat11
Giants have a screaming announcer.
2007-06-22 20:02:10
139.   ny2ca2dc
I'm going to take the almost-XBH as Iggy just going right after the #8 hitter...
2007-06-22 20:02:41
140.   williamnyy23
Significant K...that's the change we heard about. Vizquel doesn't K much, so that's a good sign.
2007-06-22 20:02:43
141.   Mattpat11
I'm telling you, Igawa is going to put the team on his back and march us to the promised land, forcing me to eat my words.
2007-06-22 20:02:58
142.   seamus
Igawa actually looks good. Still losing an occasional pitch, but much sharper. (knocks on serious amounts of wood)
2007-06-22 20:03:08
143.   ny2ca2dc
boy, that was a nice change.
2007-06-22 20:04:04
144.   Mattpat11
142 Promised land.
2007-06-22 20:04:11
145.   seamus
first time i've ever seen waldman. Now i know what she looks like.
2007-06-22 20:04:34
146.   ny2ca2dc
just getting in on the home-feed Pac-Bell Park love (or whatever it's called now), that park really is something to behold. now please take the camera off of suzyn
2007-06-22 20:04:41
147.   williamnyy23
Now Fuentes blows a save!
2007-06-22 20:04:42
148.   Mattpat11
145 Janet Evanovich
2007-06-22 20:05:06
149.   monkeypants
Oh God, Miller is now impersonating Sterling--there is no escape!
2007-06-22 20:06:27
150.   Zack
Soooo, hows it goin everyone?
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-06-22 20:06:46
151.   monkeypants
Fuck, now a replay of the Roberts steal and a panegyric to the 2004 Sox.
2007-06-22 20:06:49
152.   Zack
For some reason I can't even get's homepage to load...sigh
2007-06-22 20:07:18
153.   rockymtnyankee
1. Rockies just lost in extra innings in Toronto....looked like Keystone Cops on the last play......makes those 3 losses in Colorado even more painful.

2. Did you hear Jon Miller, who I like, say that Yankee fans love Sterling?

3. Dave Roberts again!!

2007-06-22 20:07:40
154.   seamus
152 i usually have to load it twice. just stick my cursor in address bar and hit return a second time. works for me.
2007-06-22 20:07:47
155.   ny2ca2dc
fucking fuckers showing flashbacks of 'the steal'.... thank god i was overseas for all of the playoffs in that year, and never 'got to' watch any of that series....
2007-06-22 20:08:09
156.   williamnyy23
Another change...interesting.
2007-06-22 20:08:12
157.   seamus
153 some of us do love sterling.

K Igawa!

2007-06-22 20:08:25
158.   Mattpat11
Hop on his back guys
2007-06-22 20:08:25
159.   Zack
Whoops, nevermind, clearly I had my safari set to the last time I, um, watched hed a Fox game...
2007-06-22 20:08:46
160.   ny2ca2dc
boy, look at that change, both Ks he had the batters completely fooled.
2007-06-22 20:09:31
161.   Jim Dean
131 You're calling them "below average hitters" based on a third of the season. You're better than that.

All of Abreu, Cano, and Damon are better than what they've shown. To assume constancy for the rest of the year is to make an ass of u and me.

Melky is a special case based on age. 1 and one-third seasons does not brand one a "below average hitter".

Cairo belongs nowhere in the discussion. He's been Womackian for the last three years. He doesn't deserve a spot in the major leagues let alone starting as the 1B.

2007-06-22 20:09:48
162.   seamus
160 he's being efficient too. Under 14 pitches per inning. (41 total). Remember before he was throwing 100 pitches through 5.
2007-06-22 20:09:52
163.   williamnyy23
157 I really like Sterling...he is just no longer a good play-by-play man. Having an awful partner doesn't help.
2007-06-22 20:10:07
164.   monkeypants
153 Yeah (see 149). I figure all announcers assume that fans of other teams love their announcers, because all announcers want to think that about themselves. I mean, what's he gonna say: "That Sterling, what a clod, the fans loathe him yet the Yankees keep givin' him contracts."
2007-06-22 20:13:06
165.   monkeypants
Our deadly bottom of the order!!
2007-06-22 20:13:34
166.   Mattpat11
162 I'm telling ya, Iggymania is going to sweep the country.
2007-06-22 20:13:34
167.   seamus
the heart of our lineup is Cairo-Igawa!
2007-06-22 20:13:51
168.   ny2ca2dc
162 good point. nice that he gets to slide back in against the drecks the Giants throw out there, we'll have to see what happens next time. 164 good point.

squeeze here?

2007-06-22 20:14:28
169.   ny2ca2dc
168 err, i confused myself, forget the squeeze comment...
2007-06-22 20:14:56
170.   williamnyy23
161 First off, we are talking about the current state of the team...which happens to only be 1/3 of a season. Secondly, Cabrera and Cairo are in the lineup for the foreseeable future. They are below average for their career (one just below and the other god awful). Damon 's case is fully contingent on his injury status. Do you completely dismiss the possibility that it could linger? Finally, Cano did have a full season of 102 OPS+. It is possible he could revert back toward that level. As I previously stated, the collective prospects of those four concern me more than the 5th starter.
2007-06-22 20:15:21
171.   JeremyM
I think Igawa would've drew another walk there-- bad managing:)
2007-06-22 20:15:28
172.   seamus
another inning where we get through igawa and at worst set up the heart of the order to start the next inning.
2007-06-22 20:15:30
173.   monkeypants
168 "squeeze here""

That would be a bold move with two outs.

2007-06-22 20:16:30
174.   ny2ca2dc
173 see 169... i thought they were loaded with 1 out... and, also, i'm retarded.
2007-06-22 20:16:48
175.   51cq24
am i drunk or were we just stuck on cano cam?
2007-06-22 20:16:59
176.   monkeypants
168 Oops, sorry--just saw 169.
2007-06-22 20:17:11
177.   Jim Dean

June 2007 -

Melky - .303 AVG .799 OPS
Cano - .316 AVG .853 OPS
Abreu - .347 AVG 1.041 OPS

Only Damon is still struggling - and we all know that's based on injuries.

2007-06-22 20:17:36
178.   ny2ca2dc
172 today the heart of the order is 7-8-9-1...
2007-06-22 20:18:13
179.   monkeypants
174 Actually, it's easy to make that mistake--you just assume that Cairo and Igawa are going to get on base for Melky. ; )
2007-06-22 20:19:57
180.   monkeypants
Wow--tight strike zone tonight.
2007-06-22 20:20:04
181.   JeremyM
Walking Durham right here would be a terrible idea.
This is a big inning for Igawa, obviously.
2007-06-22 20:20:21
182.   seamus
damn it. I hope igawa didn't lose his mechanics.
2007-06-22 20:20:54
183.   Mattpat11
Singleton owned Eck, FWIW
2007-06-22 20:21:21
184.   JeremyM
Wow, did that really happen? Nice.
2007-06-22 20:21:33
185.   Mattpat11
And Gaylord Perry and Catfish.

He really should be trumpeting this.

2007-06-22 20:21:34
186.   Mattpat11
And Gaylord Perry and Catfish.

He really should be trumpeting this.

2007-06-22 20:21:38
187.   ny2ca2dc
2007-06-22 20:21:41
188.   Jim Dean
2007-06-22 20:21:42
189.   monkeypants
Holy Carp!
2007-06-22 20:21:54
190.   seamus
speaking of mechanics. I play disc golf. I'm ok. not great. The other night I was playing 18 holes in our local eague and thought that my mechanics were perfect. Only to realize that I was opening up early and I finished strong. In any case, the experience led me to appreciate pitching mechanics more.
2007-06-22 20:21:58
191.   Mattpat11
182 I'd rather now than August.
2007-06-22 20:22:13
192.   williamnyy23
183 Flaherty wasn't lying about 20 PAs, he had a 1.450 OPS.
2007-06-22 20:27:13
193.   ny2ca2dc
some interesting stuff from PeteAbe re: Kei:

"The K-Man is dealing. He was accompanied here by Gil Patterson, the minor-league pitching coach who has been working him the last seven weeks. Patterson explained to us before the game that they've been working on Igawa's balance and arm slot. Patterson, in addition to being a very good guy, is an accomplished coach who has been on several major league staffs as a pitching coach. He signed on with he Yankees because he wanted to be close to his family in Tampa."

PeteAbe has really exposed himself as a pretty shitty analyst in the past few months, but this kind of reporting, i think, is just great to have - really neat to have that level of detail.

2007-06-22 20:27:14
194.   Jim Dean
Before we get too excited about Quest tonight, let's reflect on the words of Saint Cliff above:

"Overall, the Gians have one of the four worst offenses in baseball, ahead of only the Pirates, Nationals, and White Sox."

Everything looks good, but it's nothing that Mr. Wolf would get "excited" about.

2007-06-22 20:28:22
195.   seamus
194 which makes it a perfect team for him to begin to find his confidence in getting out mlb hitters.
2007-06-22 20:28:26
196.   51cq24
seriously, i know sele was pretty decent for a few years, but i think i would have owned him. the guy throws a softball curve.
2007-06-22 20:28:36
197.   williamnyy23
194 Agreed...but doing badly against a team like S.F. would be very worrisome.
2007-06-22 20:28:37
198.   Mattpat11
194 Negative Nancy.
2007-06-22 20:28:39
199.   Zack
I'm mostly watching the Sox-Pads game as its on tv here. Pads really blew a chance against DM in the 1st, now Sox up 2-1 with maddux getting squeezed a whole lot. Typical Petco game though, lots of singles...
2007-06-22 20:28:44
200.   williamnyy23
194 Agreed...but doing badly against a team like S.F. would be very worrisome.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-06-22 20:28:50
201.   Jim Dean
193 Of course, I expect the game stories, if this continues, will leave out Cliff's wisdom.
2007-06-22 20:29:44
202.   ny2ca2dc
Jete making up for swinging at the first pitch.

Reason i'm feeling good about the offense today is that they're taking their walks, and taking their pitches. Cain does struggle with the BB, so, as good as he is, this is the exact right thing to do.

Bobby's last couple ABs have looked kind of bad, this one's looking a bit better... hope i don't jinx it.

2007-06-22 20:30:08
203.   Mattpat11
200 Baltimore isn't exactly an offensive Juggernaut
2007-06-22 20:30:26
204.   Zack
193 Yeah, Pete Abe really wanted Phelps to fail and made it very obvious. He needs to stick to the insider info...

194 ok Debbie Downer :)

2007-06-22 20:30:26
205.   Mattpat11
That went out
2007-06-22 20:30:54
206.   Mattpat11
Nevermind. Double
2007-06-22 20:31:04
207.   monkeypants
How did Abreu not make third on that?
2007-06-22 20:31:09
208.   51cq24
way to pick your fights joe!
2007-06-22 20:32:05
209.   monkeypants
Wake up, gentlemen.
2007-06-22 20:32:45
210.   ny2ca2dc
that was a head scratcher. but at least i didn't jinx it.
2007-06-22 20:33:13
211.   Mattpat11
Winn has some arm, huh?
2007-06-22 20:33:47
212.   monkeypants
A-Rod has hit two ropes tonight.
2007-06-22 20:34:52
213.   Jim Dean

Wow - Alex has 74 RBI's in the 71st game. Even if the Yanks suck, it will be fun to watch what he can do.

2007-06-22 20:35:54
214.   51cq24
213 go root for the giants if you want to root for individual players
2007-06-22 20:37:16
215.   monkeypants
214 Be fair--Bonds has a whole team helping him out.
2007-06-22 20:37:40
216.   Zack
214 what does that even mean? I assume a Bonds reference, but come on...
2007-06-22 20:40:08
217.   Jim Dean
214 Ha!

It will be fun to see if he can make a run at 60 HR 180 RBI plus 150 runs.

2007-06-22 20:42:04
218.   51cq24
217 well it was mostly a joke, but the truth behind it is we're yankee fans, we aren't supposed to have fun watching a guy put up numbers while our team sucks
2007-06-22 20:43:02
219.   monkeypants
Whatever the case, I'm pulling for A-Rod to stay in the game long enough to take the HR record back from Bonds and his needles. A big year this year (even if the team flounders) moves him closer to that end.
2007-06-22 20:43:26
220.   51cq24
sorry i meant 216
2007-06-22 20:47:12
221.   DougP
93 Hey, Jim Dean, Seth's a good guy. Don't be so hard on him.
2007-06-22 20:49:53
222.   Jim Dean
221 Honestly, I loved that Slate piece. But he's nothing but a homer on his blog. His rants against Chass and the Times are sometimes funny, as is his blind hatred for A-Rod.
2007-06-22 20:50:34
223.   monkeypants
Kei looks like he's losing a little pixie dust this inning.
2007-06-22 20:51:32
224.   Jim Dean
P.s. Also funny is when Suzyn gets into bitchy pissing contests with the beat writers that visit the booth. And of course, everyone lets Sterling have the final say.
2007-06-22 20:52:50
225.   51cq24
why does this game seem so frenzied? is it just that the crowd noise is louder than usual?
2007-06-22 20:54:03
226.   Mattpat11
223 I'll hear none of it.
2007-06-22 20:54:55
227.   monkeypants
226 Maybe he gave some to Andy Phillips. ; )
2007-06-22 20:56:04
228.   monkeypants
Okey-dokey..let's stop showing Robin Williams after every play.
2007-06-22 20:56:13
229.   Mattpat11
227 Impossible. Phillips is the secret weapon.
2007-06-22 20:57:16
230.   DougP
222 I only read his blog about once a month, so I gloss over that stuff. He's obviously a big Sox fan, just like we're big Yankees fans. I knew him before the heroin thing -- haven't talked to him in maybe 10 years.
2007-06-22 20:57:19
231.   Mattpat11
I hope Igawa hasn't dismissed hitting him in this situation.
2007-06-22 20:57:39
232.   Zack
Hmm, walking someone to get TO Bonds, now there's an interesting strategy...
2007-06-22 20:58:17
233.   seamus
I think that Igawa is rushing his pitches now.
2007-06-22 20:58:32
234.   monkeypants
[231} I agree. Just plunk him or walk him, then change pitchers.
2007-06-22 20:58:38
235.   yankz
222 I hate Slate Magazine.

Oh, and welcome back.

2007-06-22 20:59:12
236.   DougP
233 That's what Posada said when he went up there -- he said "slow down"
2007-06-22 20:59:39
237.   monkeypants
Tight strike zone again.
2007-06-22 21:00:58
238.   seamus
ok. i'm tired and have to get up early. good night all.


2007-06-22 21:00:59
239.   monkeypants
2007-06-22 21:02:20
240.   Jim Dean
235 It's a good article. Convinced me there's a road back in case I ever get hooked on the H-bomb.

Right now, I think I'll have a bowl of Frosted Flakes.

2007-06-22 21:02:23
241.   Yankees Brasil
I'm afraid something bad is going to happen..
2007-06-22 21:02:27
242.   monkeypants
Mixed bag for Igawa tonight. He started well, but against a bad offensive team, then all the old tricks came back. On the other hand, he did show some promise with the bat and so thrust himself right inot the 1B/DH controversy.
2007-06-22 21:02:35
243.   Bob Timmermann
Does Vizcaino have a standing order to pitch in every game? Is it contractual?
2007-06-22 21:03:00
244.   williamnyy23
Well..that didn't last long.
2007-06-22 21:03:19
245.   Max
Well, if he was going to come crashing back down to earth, he was going to do so in character. No seeing eye singles or getting squeezed or being victimized by his defense -- just giving up hard hit balls and suffering a complete loss of control.
2007-06-22 21:04:24
246.   DougP
Cairo has to make that catch. Has to.
2007-06-22 21:04:24
247.   yankz
243 You do know what "EDSP" stands for, right?

242 Money.

2007-06-22 21:04:35
248.   Mattpat11
I'd rather Igawa fall apart in his first game back than his third.
2007-06-22 21:05:25
249.   ny2ca2dc
gift from the gods...
2007-06-22 21:05:36
250.   Zack
WOuld have liked to see Kei get one more batter to work out of it, but with the Joe Torre quick hook, so be it. Course, Viz, what with control issues, isn't really the best choice
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2007-06-22 21:05:44
251.   williamnyy23
248 He is definitely getting a third either way, so I am not sure it matters.
2007-06-22 21:05:54
252.   Yankees Brasil
Sweet Hideki!
2007-06-22 21:06:17
253.   monkeypants
Ah, the ol' "load the bases then walk Bonds but give up a smash to the fence by Molina and only give up a couple of runs strategy" pays off again.
2007-06-22 21:06:49
254.   DougP
240 Be careful with those Frosted Flakes. It's only a short leap to a different kind of frosted. Welcome back, by the way. Glad to see you enjoyed the vacation.
2007-06-22 21:06:56
255.   williamnyy23
253 Funny...but I was hoping Igawa wouldn't throw a strike to Bonds.
2007-06-22 21:07:41
256.   monkeypants
250 Normally I gripe about the quick hook, but Igawa had totally lost it, and they really can't afford to blow any more games against stinky teams.
2007-06-22 21:07:54
257.   Jim Dean
Realize going into that AB that Molina, who can't hit off a tee, was 3 for 5 in his career against Vizcaino with 1 HR.

I'm sure that history escaped the Yankee bench. But not Suzyn!

2007-06-22 21:08:17
258.   Mattpat11
251 If Igawa falls back to his old tricks right from the start, the team will be more likely to pull the plug quicker.

If he starts off well, his next months worth of work could be the drizzling shits and he'd stick around because the team saw potential the first time around

2007-06-22 21:08:27
259.   Max
250 Not me. Igawa has a glass jaw as far as I'm concerned...once he's down, he doesn't get back up. His pitches just veer further out of the strike zone and his fastball keeps getting hit harder.
2007-06-22 21:08:38
260.   monkeypants
255 Who's joking? So was I!
2007-06-22 21:10:44
261.   Mattpat11
The Yankees are facing fat Eminem
2007-06-22 21:11:45
262.   Jim Dean
254 Yeah - I haven't been able to kick that habit in over 25 years of life. I was ten when I started snorting them and twelve when the freebasing began. Now I just pour milk over them. When I want to get really crazy - Hershey's Syrup.

Thanks for the all the welcome backs - I wish i had come home to a twelve game winning streak though.

2007-06-22 21:11:55
263.   51cq24
2007-06-22 21:12:41
264.   monkeypants
Ouch--Melky bounced that one off his ankle. Good thing Damon can go in and play the spacious OF here in SF.
2007-06-22 21:13:09
265.   51cq24
wow i thought he broke something
2007-06-22 21:14:11
266.   monkeypants
2007-06-22 21:14:42
267.   Jim Dean
william -

Melky in June:

.309 AVG .834 OPS

2007-06-22 21:15:06
268.   Mattpat11
Jeter needs to keep his hitting streak going here
2007-06-22 21:15:08
269.   randym77
LOL! Why did Melky shove the third base coach?
2007-06-22 21:15:21
270.   Mattpat11
2007-06-22 21:15:21
271.   DougP
I want to know what Bowa said there. Melky looked pissed. Somebody tell PeteAbe to get us the story!
2007-06-22 21:15:28
272.   Mattpat11
And we scored too.
2007-06-22 21:15:55
273.   monkeypants
2007-06-22 21:16:34
274.   Mattpat11
267 Over the last 14 days

.216 .302 .270 .572

2007-06-22 21:16:48
275.   Mattpat11
2007-06-22 21:16:58
276.   williamnyy23
267 Hold on can't chide me about small sample size and then cite Melky's June performance.
2007-06-22 21:17:21
277.   williamnyy23
I think Jeter has caught a case of Posadaitis.
2007-06-22 21:17:30
278.   monkeypants
Christ, Jeter has looked like shit stealing/getting picked off this year.
2007-06-22 21:18:16
279.   Mattpat11
277 Posada caught it from Bernie.
2007-06-22 21:19:00
280.   Max
Wow, what the heck is up with Jeter's baserunning lately? It's like the ghost of Bernie possessing him on the basepaths.
2007-06-22 21:19:03
281.   Jim Dean
276 The point is only that you were saying how worried you were. June for Cano, Abreu, and Melky says you should relax - at least for those three.

Bitch all you want about Cairo though.

2007-06-22 21:19:34
282.   Knuckles
Jeter's been hanging around with the ghost of Charles Gipson lately...
2007-06-22 21:20:07
283.   monkeypants
NIce snag by Cairo. Now Pete Abe can write more snarky comments about Phelps.
2007-06-22 21:20:37
284.   51cq24
lay off bernie
2007-06-22 21:21:05
285.   Mattpat11
Al took that number from Bubba, IIRC.
2007-06-22 21:21:30
286.   Mattpat11
284 I love Bernie.

He ran the bases like me.

2007-06-22 21:21:44
287.   DougP
Can someone explain this to me -- we got Phelps from Baltimore in the Rule 5 draft. I thought that the way is works is that if we don't keep Phelps on the ML roster all year, we have to offer him back to Baltimore for $25,000. So how come he went through waivers for the Pirates to claim him? did the Orioles not want Phelps?
2007-06-22 21:22:23
288.   Jim Dean
283 And talk about how Cairo saves them at least 10 runs a week with his glove.
2007-06-22 21:23:09
289.   Jim Dean
287 I had the same question.
2007-06-22 21:23:25
290.   monkeypants
288 Are you implying he doesn't?
2007-06-22 21:23:44
291.   Mattpat11
287 I THINK its a deal we're the Yankees aren't allowed to just outright him when he clears waivers like they would with a regular
2007-06-22 21:24:06
292.   Jim Dean
290 Please don't joke about these things. I will set myself on fire.
2007-06-22 21:24:36
293.   monkeypants
Why is Torre playing righty-lefty here, especially after letting Vizcaino bat in the top of the inning?
2007-06-22 21:25:39
294.   williamnyy23
281 Point taken, but Melky and to a lesser extent Cano have not maintained a prolonged hot streak all season. Their season totals weigh more on my mind than their last few weeks do.
2007-06-22 21:25:53
295.   monkeypants
292 I don't know...I think I'm becoming a believer.

Do I smell smoke?

2007-06-22 21:27:31
296.   monkeypants
Wow, the other Giants announcer (who is that, anyway?) just noticed that Meyers has not done that well against lefties this year. I hope Torre is watching the broadcast.
2007-06-22 21:29:23
297.   rockymtnyankee
296 - I was thinking the exact same thing.
2007-06-22 21:32:12
298.   williamnyy23
Posada is slowing down a little.
2007-06-22 21:32:30
299.   monkeypants
Miler is going on about A-Rod's opt out clause, arguing that he would go to the Sox (for example) so he could play SS again. Does anyone really think he's going back to SS at this stage in his career?
2007-06-22 21:32:51
300.   WeMissPaulie
Grinding halt.....
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2007-06-22 21:33:34
301.   williamnyy23
299 Maybe he'll decide to play QB for the Patriots too?
2007-06-22 21:37:52
302.   Bob Timmermann
The other radio guy is Dave Flemming.
2007-06-22 21:38:09
303.   monkeypants
That's rich--Miller expressing surprise and even slight moral indignation that Giambi admitted to "and I quote, a personal history with steroids." I mean, every player on that San Fran team is so squeaky clean that such admissions really have shocked the innocent Miller.
2007-06-22 21:40:50
304.   williamnyy23
For those with the YES strong must Miguel Olivo be? Justin Morneau attempts to knock him over and he just peels off like he hit a wall. Luckily, Morneau only had a bruised lung and not broken bones. Still, spitting up blood isn't exactly getting off Scott free. It would be a real shame if Morneau misses significant time. I really wish MLB would outlaw the collision at the plate (and at 2B Mr. Lowell). Losing star players on football-type plays doesn't make much sense.
2007-06-22 21:41:23
305.   randym77
267 No, he still has to clear waivers. If he had cleared waivers, then the Yanks would have had to offer him back to the Orioles before they could send him to Scranton.
2007-06-22 21:43:10
306.   Yankees Brasil
304 That was scary.. Olivo didn't move an inch
2007-06-22 21:43:33
307.   williamnyy23
303 The Giants almost single handedly kept Balco in business...from Barry to Santiago to Marvin Bernard for goodness sake.
2007-06-22 21:43:42
308.   monkeypants
304 I agree with you about the "collision play." I often find Rob Neyer irritating, but he has complained about that play for years.
2007-06-22 21:47:53
309.   monkeypants
Ladies and Gentlemen, Jim Dean is burning.
2007-06-22 21:48:53
310.   DougP
305 Thanks.
2007-06-22 21:50:41
311.   williamnyy23
I have a theory on why so many people think Cairo "gets big hits". Basically, he is so bad that you have zero expectations. So, when he makes an out, you think nothing of it. However, when he gets a hit, you are disproportionately pleased. As a result, the hits standout ahead of the multitude of outs.
2007-06-22 21:51:09
312.   OldYanksFan
299 In a heartbeat. He will not be in the discussion for greatest 3rd baseman of all time. If he has another 6 years at SS, he will be argueably the greatest SS of all time.

Next year is Manny's last. $20mil off the books. The Sox will offer ARod big money. Revenge for the Babe. They will make him the cornerstone of the team, and rip that 'C' right of Teks jersey if ARod wants it.

Imagine playing the Sox and facing ARod.
I don't even want to think about it.

2007-06-22 21:52:06
313.   randym77
Well, that wasn't clutch, Miggy.
2007-06-22 21:52:07
314.   monkeypants
311 That, and he is such a great base runner.
2007-06-22 21:52:58
315.   williamnyy23
[312} Six more years at SS? I don't know if he could do that even if he hadn't moved to 3B. I have a hard time believing that Arod would want to go back to SS. He is bigger and older than he was back in the day and now seems much more suited to playing 3B.
2007-06-22 21:53:20
316.   randym77
Well, Bowa says Miggy is the best baserunner on the team. I guess even the best can screw up. :-P
2007-06-22 21:53:48
317.   OldYanksFan
311 Correct. But also because we are pyromaniacs at heart.
2007-06-22 21:53:49
318.   williamnyy23
Proctor is the perfect foil for Bonds.
2007-06-22 21:53:56
319.   DougP
There should be mandatory baserunning drills before the game tomorrow. This is getting silly.
2007-06-22 21:54:16
320.   monkeypants
312 Hmmm, maybe you're right. The thing is, you could already argue that he's the greatest SS in history, and I'm not convinced he can play the position any more. He's much bigger, and it's not like he has tons of range at 3B. If anything, I see him moving over to 1B at some point. But I could be wrong.
2007-06-22 21:56:59
321.   Mattpat11
2007-06-22 21:57:04
322.   williamnyy23
318 That was SOOO obvious!
2007-06-22 21:57:25
323.   monkeypants
That was...predictable.
2007-06-22 21:57:51
324.   JeremyM
God damn Proctor, that is exactly what I didn't want to see happen.
2007-06-22 21:58:37
325.   monkeypants
And on cue Mo starts to warm. See, it was really all part of the plan for Torre to get Mo a save situation. I bet he even signalled Miggy to pull that boner at third last inning.
2007-06-22 21:59:02
326.   Yankees Brasil
Now Mo can pick up an easy save
2007-06-22 21:59:28
327.   williamnyy23
The conventional wisdom is that you should challenge him with a 4-run lead, but Barry Bonds is a near lock to destroy a fastball over the plate. I'd still rather walk him. Considering his lack of mobility now, the double play is a strong possibility.
2007-06-22 22:01:08
328.   standuptriple
The bottom of the Giants barrel is just that. Should be easy for Mo. Of course, I said that about Scutaro in April.
2007-06-22 22:01:48
329.   Zack
Bonds hits a HR, Papelboner on in an utterly un-interesting 2-1 Petco style game...
2007-06-22 22:01:54
330.   OldYanksFan
320 You're being too logical. Where does a Gorilla sit down? ANYWHERE HE WANTS. I believe ARod still considers himself a SS. I'm sure Boston would be just fine with big, cloddy ARod at SS. I'm sure Red Sox fans would call friends who were Yankee fans on a regular basis.

I might have to move out of NE.
2007-06-22 22:02:32
331.   monkeypants
So, to review. Torre used the lefty specialist in the middle innings (though admittedly it a creative use, for consecutive batters over two innings) with a four run lead. He has two relief pitchers bat, including Proctor, who is left in to face Bonds late in the game. Now he goes to Mo in the eighth.
2007-06-22 22:02:39
332.   williamnyy23 have to use Mo for 5 outs is unfortunate.
2007-06-22 22:02:58
333.   DougP
Ummm... Mo for a 5 out save against the Giants in a 3-run game?
2007-06-22 22:03:21
334.   OldYanksFan
I'm glad Mo is in. Mo is not getting enough work. He goes a week without any work. He should be in every 4th game no matter what.
2007-06-22 22:03:42
335.   Zack
332 Define "have." I see no NEED to use Mo for 5 outs, its just Joe push button managing again...
2007-06-22 22:04:53
336.   51cq24
312 oh please. this guy is going to be in the discussion for the best player of all time. maybe he wants to be a shortstop again because he's a great one, but i really doubt he cares about being the greatest shortstop of all time. honestly, no matter where he compiles the stats, he's gonna go down as the best ss and best 3b of all time.
2007-06-22 22:05:08
337.   Zack
My God Papelbon is annoying. So is Pedroia. Actually, so are a lot of the Sox. Mostly that's because they are Sox, but Papelbon's purposful shows of "intensity" are just annoying and overly done. Sort of like Varitek's "C"...
2007-06-22 22:05:42
338.   Zack
I think Bonds' AB destroyed Yahoo or somethign as it hasn't progressed past him being up
2007-06-22 22:05:55
339.   Mattpat11
I've had an awful feeling for a while that at some point this weekend Barroids will hit a HR off Mo
2007-06-22 22:06:51
340.   Mattpat11
337 You know they forced him to wear that C.

No, I don't believe it either.

2007-06-22 22:06:53
341.   monkeypants
334 He SHOULD get regular work, but he really does lose effectiveness when he is used for multiple innings. He should be mopping up in the ninth tonight, because they should have scored another run when Torre should have PH for Proctor, and Meyers should have been brought in to face Bonds in the eighth, not dregs in the fifth (not that I really have any faith in his LOOGY ability this year).
2007-06-22 22:07:16
342.   WeMissPaulie
I cant stand Varitek's "C". It is the most asinine thing.
2007-06-22 22:07:43
343.   51cq24
speaking of steroids...
2007-06-22 22:08:34
344.   monkeypants
336 Mike Schmidt might have something to say about that greatest 3B of all time.
2007-06-22 22:08:58
345.   WeMissPaulie
Nice Mo.
2007-06-22 22:10:35
346.   Zack
There are so many front running Sox fans at Petco tonight. They are all over the place in San Diego the last few years (yeah, since they won of course). And of course they all look the same and are named Sully or or some such...
2007-06-22 22:13:22
347.   Mattpat11
346 I found people wearing Tigers hats in DC out of nowhere last year far more annoying.
2007-06-22 22:14:39
348.   Zack
Pepelbon ends the game by pumping his fist, screaming, yelling towards Varitek, clapping his hands together over and over, and fist pumping Varitek...I kid you not...
2007-06-22 22:15:01
349.   51cq24
344 i guess the point is he's pretty much a top 5 all time hitter (already). who cares what position he plays?
2007-06-22 22:15:22
350.   monkeypants
Come on Bobby--line drive to the SS? That's not winning baseball!
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2007-06-22 22:15:45
351.   williamnyy23
Arod hits today; we win today.
2007-06-22 22:15:49
352.   Zack
347 Nah, Tigers fans, fake or not, lack the billigerance.
2007-06-22 22:16:32
353.   Mattpat11
348 I've always found forced emotion out of a closer embarrassing. Thats why I like Mo.
2007-06-22 22:16:56
354.   Zack
Yup, the trend of A-Rod dictating the offense continues...

So basically all we nee is A-Rod to stay red hot all season long and we are in good shape.

2007-06-22 22:17:06
355.   williamnyy23
348 Makes you really appreciate Mo all the more. To be dominant is one do it with the utmost class is another.
2007-06-22 22:17:21
356.   monkeypants
349 He sure as hell looks great tonight. Ha!

I agree with you. If he was motivated to be the greates SS ever, he would have stayed in Texas and hit a million HRs a year. He wants a ring (which he may figure he can get with the Sox), and whatver position he plays he is going to pile up numbers as long as he wants to play.

2007-06-22 22:17:34
357.   WeMissPaulie
Papelbon is the most annoying punk....but Krod is a close second.
2007-06-22 22:18:27
358.   ric

a captain wearing a "c" is the most "asinine" thing? maybe its time to consult your dictionary because its very appropriate for a captain to wear a "c". just because jeter doesnt wear one doesnt mean its not okay.

2007-06-22 22:18:33
359.   monkeypants
OK, pull Posada and put in a PR.
2007-06-22 22:18:40
360.   Zack
Padres offense could make the Sox pitching look world class this weekend. Peavy vs. Beckett should be fun Sunday night, if not over-hyped...

Looks like the Yanks need a sweep this weekend...

2007-06-22 22:18:44
361.   Mattpat11
352 But I think there is still a certain amount of legitimacy there. I liked to play "Name a Tiger" with those Tiger Hat Wearers.
2007-06-22 22:19:22
362.   monkeypants
358 Is there any tradition of baseball captains wearing a "C" on their uniforms, as they do in hockey?
2007-06-22 22:20:08
363.   williamnyy23
361 Would Tony count? Tigger?
2007-06-22 22:20:32
364.   Mattpat11
Ken Singleton does not like Barry Bonds
2007-06-22 22:21:12
365.   WeMissPaulie
Ric, tell me any other baseball captain that would wear a "C"...none, ever. I dont need a dictionary, its a hockey thing.
2007-06-22 22:21:35
366.   51cq24
hey let's be honest. yankee merchandise was not what it is now in 1995.
2007-06-22 22:21:35
367.   Zack
358 Yeah, its appropriate in sports where players do that. I think if you "consult your dictionary" or whatever you want to check, you'll find no one else in baseball find it necessary to show everyone they are a captain. In fact, I imagine you'll find almost no captain in any sport wears a stupid C. So I would call it asinine, because it smacks of self-importance, and false leadership...
2007-06-22 22:22:10
368.   williamnyy23
365 Boston is really a hockey town anyway, so it's probably appropriate.
2007-06-22 22:22:23
369.   Mattpat11
Franco wore a C. That was particularly obnoxious
2007-06-22 22:22:36
370.   bbfan1
"Papelbon is the most annoying punk....but Krod is a close second."

Another thoughtful night of discussion at the banter. Such a beautiful thing.

2007-06-22 22:22:39
371.   monkeypants
364 I was watching the Rockies-Jays game earlier, and they interviewed Cecil Fielder who was at the SkyDome--he clearly was none too pleased with certain players who suddenly started putting up massive HR numbers in the last few years.
2007-06-22 22:23:17
372.   Zack
370 And why are you here? Go back to dirt dogs or sons of sma horn, sicne they are all known for their quality of discussion and analysis...
2007-06-22 22:23:30
373.   randym77
I've seen the "C" used in the NFL, too.
2007-06-22 22:23:38
374.   Mattpat11
Are they playing Enter Sandman?
2007-06-22 22:23:55
375.   Zack
And whoever was arguing that its a good thign to crash into catchers, check out what happened to Morneau tonight...
2007-06-22 22:24:09
376.   williamnyy23
367 Also, doesn't the captain actual perform a function in hockey, necessitating the designation? I just happen to think Varitek is a Hawthorne fan.
2007-06-22 22:24:16
377.   WeMissPaulie
Like Zack said, its all about being self-important. Jeter doesnt need to tell everyone he's the captain.
2007-06-22 22:24:38
378.   ric
Zack- your last few posts are asinine... intensity is bad? is closing a 2-1 game not worthy of a jeter-style fist pump? (the only thing a closer can do better is close out a 1-0 lead) should papelbon close it out with an abreu style eyes glazed over lack of intensity instead? get over your bias and refrain from writing asinine statements. and dont call red so fans sully, ok, you lego maniac?
2007-06-22 22:25:11
379.   Max
358 370 So do the trolls crawl out of the woodwork after 1am around here?
2007-06-22 22:25:24
380.   williamnyy23
375 Beat you to it...about 200 posts ago :)
2007-06-22 22:25:31
381.   randym77
375 What happened to Morneau?
2007-06-22 22:26:09
382.   Mattpat11
375 And I'm sure he'd tell you he'll do it again. I'm not sure he's the type of player that would stand there and wait to be tagged out.
2007-06-22 22:27:14
383.   williamnyy23
378 Papelbon doesn't do a fist pump. He gets hysterical on the mound. As long as he gets the outs, he can do whatever he wants. Everyone has their own style...I prefer Mo's dignified approach.
2007-06-22 22:28:13
384.   williamnyy23
381 He tried to barrel over Miguel Olivo, but looked more like he ran into a wall. He wound up bruising his lung and spitting up blood.
2007-06-22 22:28:50
385.   WeMissPaulie
The sullys are out after Papelbon closed their game.
2007-06-22 22:29:02
386.   51cq24
hey, who cares?
let detroiters suddenly love the tigers. let varitek wear his stupid c. let papelbon look like an idiot when he gets a save. let ollie perez do his weird run and skip over the foul line. and let the yankees come back and embarrass them all on their way to 27.
2007-06-22 22:29:57
387.   randym77
384 Yikes. Is he going on the DL?
2007-06-22 22:30:25
388.   Zack
378 haha, that would make some sense if you a) read my post b) had any sense of non-bias yourself, and c) if I cared.

I never calimed to be non-baised, but to answer your asinine question, no, closing out a 2-1 lead in petco in June in no way warrents fist pumps, screaming, yelling, clapping, etc. I eleive you find the "jeter -style fist pump" to be rather understated and calm.

Intensity is fine, Jeter is intense, Mo is intense, hell, YOukilis is intense, but you don't see him reacting that way.

So, as I said to the other troll, go back to sons of sam horn and fist pump away, but don't expect to come to a Yankees site and pretend you ahve anything to say...

2007-06-22 22:30:38
389.   williamnyy23
Kim Jones asks the stupidest questions..."they willed themselves to break the losing streak"? It's not like they had to come back from 5 runs down with 2 outs in the 9th.
2007-06-22 22:32:07
390.   Zack
380 Nerts! I figured it probably came up, but I was scrolling through the stories and couldn't resist!

382 I am sure he would do it again too, which, judging by the results, would be a very bad idea...

2007-06-22 22:33:42
391.   williamnyy23
390 Especially for fans of the Twins and those who just like to see the game's best players on the field.
2007-06-22 22:34:23
392.   Zack
Well, nice to start the new winning streak, let's get another tomorrow!
2007-06-22 22:35:49
393.   OldYanksFan
356 On the Sox, he will play SS, play ping-pong against the green monster, put up great numbers AND win a ring.

Theo wouldn't takes his kids out for ice cream because he's saying every penny for ARod.

2007-06-22 22:39:45
394.   ric
a. read it - NO substance b. im biased but not a fanbiy like you c. if you dont care then go to bed

"no, closing out a 2-1 lead in petco in June in no way warrents fist pumps"

the padres have the best pitching in baseball. right now. be excited to beat them no matter when.

"go back to sons of sam horn and fist pump away, but don't expect to come to a Yankees site and pretend you ahve anything to say... "

what do you have to say besides papelbon and the red sux are stinky stinkersons that have no class.. please get a life. you are no challenge.

2007-06-22 22:41:55
395.   Mattpat11
390 So he shouldn't try to score?
2007-06-22 22:41:58
396.   monkeypants
It's really late to bring this up, but re-reading LoHud I noticed that the Yankees are going "shut down" Damon until Tuesday then re-evaluate him for the DL...but he is apparently available to PR. That's a joke, right?
2007-06-22 22:45:07
397.   monkeypants
395 One could argue that it is rarely worth the risk of injury to score a single run.

On another level, I agree with Williamnyy23--the play should be outlawed. Frankly, I'm not convinced that it doesn't violate the rules anyway. If the runner has beat the ball to home, then the catcher shouldn't be allowed to obstruct him. If the throw has beat the runner to home, then the runner shouldn't really be alowed to unload on the catcher (he can't at any other base).

2007-06-22 22:49:16
398.   Mattpat11
397 I think you can argue the likelihood of serious injury is small enough to justify fighting for every run when your team is fighting to make the playoffs.
2007-06-22 22:51:50
399.   Mattpat11
Morneau's wikipedia page says "Today, he is considered one of the top Canadian first basemen of all time"

Who in hell is his competition?

2007-06-22 22:53:16
400.   ric
zack- i dont know why the c thing bothers you..besides, dont worry the yanks will be a playoff team as long as thye play .650 the rest of the way
Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2007-06-22 22:55:24
401.   monkeypants
399 I live in Canada--a Canadian must have written that entry. That's funny.
2007-06-22 22:56:57
402.   Mattpat11
401 I mean really. Put aside "good as Morneau" for a second.

Name another Canadian first baseman.

I think its fair to call him the best even at this early juncture.

2007-06-22 23:19:33
403.   Ken Arneson
402 Matt Stairs and Larry Walker have each played some first base, but I'd still call them outfielders.
2007-06-23 00:31:24
404.   joejoejoe
Is it common for an NL manager to have their bullpen pitchers get 2ABs in a game? Torre letting Vizcaino and Proctor bat in a non-blowout (Rivera pitched) is puzzling.
2007-06-23 08:04:18
405.   yankz
400 I guess the division streak had to end sometime. Hey, not everyone can be the Braves!

And people wonder why we hate Red Sox fans.

2007-06-23 08:08:00
406.   yankz
379 Yes, but only when the Sox win and have a big lead in the division. Same thing happened last year, and then they disappeared after August. And I don't recall seeing any during the nine game winning streak.
2007-06-23 08:57:49
407.   OldYanksFan
"slugger Justin Morneau spent Friday night in the hospital with a small bruise on his lung after he collided with Florida Marlins catcher Miguel Olivo.

Morneau was slow to rise and eventually walked to the dugout, but he didn't take the field in the bottom of the inning. After the game he was taken from the stadium on a stretcher, sitting upright and wearing an oxygen mask.

Morneau was coughing up blood repeatedly when he was taken from the stadium on a stretcher, Twins manager Ron Gardenhire said. But X-rays taken at the hospital were negative and a CT scan was normal, team spokesman Mike Herman said."

Well... he may have gotten 'lucky' to only suffer a small bruise on his lung. I wonder how this might effect the rest of his life.

You know if someone is eventually crippled or even killed because on Home Plate collisions, then will then change the rules.

I wonder... does MLB really HAVE to wait until that happens?

2007-06-23 09:14:21
408.   monkeypants
407 Well, that already almost happened in the All Star game (Rose and Fossey), and they still haven't changed the rules. I agree with you entirely.
2007-06-23 09:32:30
409.   Zack
ric I'm more interested in knowing why a Yankee fan making fun of a Red Sox gets bothers YOU so much. Its not like it never happens, and, more to the point, its not like being a Sox fan hasn't been BUILT on doing far worse to Yanks players. I was simply pointing out that Papelbon makes sure everyone knows hes ""an intense guy" and that there are different ways of being intense. I have found that the ones who show their intensity in such ways are the Zambranos, Papelbons, and Uggy Urbinas, and the ones who dont are the Riveras, Hoffmans, and Pujoles. Take your pick...

And as for the C thing, it bothers me b/c people spend so much time building up Varitek into this "dirt dog" image in MA, yet between the c and the "fight," he has shown himself to be, well, rather not so.

But, like I said, I am far more interested in why YOU care so much to defend it all here...

And the Padres may have some of the best pitching, but they also have some of the WORST hitting, so take it with a grain of salt...

2007-06-23 11:18:01
410.   OldYanksFan
Fox at Four boys and girls.
Where's our new thread?
2007-06-23 11:31:39
411.   yankz
409 WRT to Varitek, let Jaffe's numbers speak for themselves.
2007-06-23 12:08:56
412.   Zack
411 What does he say?
2007-06-23 12:11:18
413.   yankz
412 That he's really not much when compared to his peers.

It was a thread a couple days ago about Jorge's HoF chances.

2007-06-23 12:12:58
414.   yankz
2007-06-23 12:39:35
415.   matt nokes forever
New thread up.

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