Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
It's Inevitable...
2007-05-29 16:10
by Alex Belth
Note: The Bronx Banter blog has moved to

The Yanks are going to put a beatin' on someone one of these days. Why not tonight?

Comments (313)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-05-29 16:13:49
1.   Alvaro Espinoza
Why would a .355 hitter give away an out to a pitcher who walked Damon on 4 straight balls?
2007-05-29 16:14:29
2.   mehmattski
1 Because the Yankees are doing what a bad team does: sac bunt in the first inning.
2007-05-29 16:17:39
3.   Alvaro Espinoza
2 The kicker is that Jeter bunted a ball. Would have been 5 in a row.
2007-05-29 16:18:12
4.   Emma Span
1 God, I hate it when Jeter does that. Okay, okay, you're a team player - WE GET IT. Gah!
2007-05-29 16:19:02
5.   Mattpat11
2007-05-29 16:20:12
6.   Emma Span
It's going to be a long season if we don't come up with some creative Yankee drinking games, and soon.
2007-05-29 16:22:28
7.   Alvaro Espinoza
First 2 batters hit the ball hard.

Thank you, Mr. Rios, for not tagging.

2007-05-29 16:23:22
8.   Jim Dean
6 How about every time Sterling murdles a call?
2007-05-29 16:24:04
9.   bartap74
When I was a kid, just starting to follow baseball seriously (mid 80s), I hated the Blue Jays, because it seemed like they were the team that knocked my beloved Yankees out every year. A little karmic payback would be lovely....
2007-05-29 16:26:13
10.   Alvaro Espinoza
Make that 3 balls hit hard that inning. Hmmmph...
2007-05-29 16:28:45
11.   mehmattski
The Blue Jays commercials are pretty hilarious. This last one featured two kids in a pillow fight. Frank Thomas shows up and asks "shouldn't you be in bed?" To which one of the kids smacks Thomas with a pillow. Thomas says "Oh yeah?" takes a pillow and whacks one of the kids clean off the bed. Hilarious

Fine print at end: "Dramatization. Stunt man used. Do not try this at home."

2007-05-29 16:32:11
12.   Mattpat11
11 IIRC, there was some controversy over that originally about the Blue Jays "condoning child abuse"
2007-05-29 16:32:58
13.   rsmith51
Why is Minky playing every day? Wouldn't it be worth trying Phelps out for a week or so?
2007-05-29 16:34:02
14.   Mattpat11
That speedster Jason Giambi has an infield single and a stolen base.
2007-05-29 16:34:33
15.   mehmattski
Infield single, stolen base, to third on error.... by Jason Giambi.

I've officially entered the Twilight Zone...

2007-05-29 16:35:01
16.   Mattpat11
And here's MTS.
2007-05-29 16:35:57
17.   rsmith51
I haven't seen the Yanks for a couple of weeks. Does Minky look better at the plate?
2007-05-29 16:36:17
18.   Mattpat11
17 No.
2007-05-29 16:36:33
19.   seamus
lol! I was wondering why i was so alone in that other thread.
2007-05-29 16:37:00
20.   mehmattski
17 The booming homer of Schilling last week was certainly encouraging. But normally it's more of the same.

Like that.

2007-05-29 16:39:14
21.   rsmith51
20 I figure if Minky is hitting homers, he probably isn't hitting line drives and most likely isn't hitting...
2007-05-29 16:39:14
22.   Alvaro Espinoza
20 So often, he appears to be swinging an already broken bat. My friend likes to say that he swings a wet newspaper.
2007-05-29 16:39:57
23.   rsmith51
Off to mow the lawn. Go Yanks!
2007-05-29 16:40:11
24.   Schteeve
Let's see here, Abreu is the Ghost of Bobby, Damon is the Ghost of Johnny, The ghost of someone who can hit a baseball obviously is no longer in possession of Melky's body. There is only one conclusion that makes sense:

The Curse of Bernie Williams.

2007-05-29 16:40:19
25.   Jim Dean
I'll drink to that false homerun call.
2007-05-29 16:42:08
26.   Jim Dean
If we throw in Suzyn's inability to speak, we'll be hammered by the 4th inning.
2007-05-29 16:43:29
27.   Jim Dean
Can we also include all double plays?
2007-05-29 16:43:56
28.   Schteeve
Nisce brisk inning from good ol' Andy.
2007-05-29 16:44:19
29.   Mattpat11
Nothing annoys me more than when a bad organizational move comes back to haunt us. I think that's why I come off as smug. When the Yankees do something that I think is alarmingly stupid, I will be very vocal about it. But I always hope I'm wrong.

But when hideous signings like Pavano or Wright or Farnsworth or Mientkiewicz, or organizational moves like the promotion of career minor leaguers fail miserably, it pisses me off. I feel that a blind man could have prevented this and thats why I come off as smug.

This is how I feel every time I see Doug Mientkiewicz ground out to second.

2007-05-29 16:44:57
30.   Schteeve
The drinking game is easy, you do a shot every time Joe Torre walks onto the field. You'll get alcohol poisoning somewhere around the 8th inning, every night.
2007-05-29 16:44:58
31.   yankz
25 Can you describe what happened?

Everytime I check in, the Yankees are already losing, so this is on someone else.

2007-05-29 16:45:11
32.   mehmattski
29 Ah, but he grounded out to short.
2007-05-29 16:45:48
33.   yankz
Shot every time Mink gets a hit (or the opposite, if you're miserable)
2007-05-29 16:46:14
34.   Emma Span
25,26 The flaw with your plan is that it would require me to listen to Sterling in the first place...
2007-05-29 16:46:42
35.   mehmattski
31 The run was a 2-base error by Jeter, a stolen base, and a groundout. The "falls home run call" I'd imagine was Lind's deep (but ultimately foul) line drive down the left field line, which I'm guessing launched Sterling into his "itishighitisfar" spiel, erroneously.
2007-05-29 16:47:19
36.   yankz
35 Thanks
2007-05-29 16:47:24
37.   tommyl
33 Um, I'd like to finish a beer at least once a week, ya know?
2007-05-29 16:48:09
38.   Jim Dean
Igawa with 5 K's vs. 1 BB in 3 IP at the Office. But 63 pitches in those same three innings.
2007-05-29 16:48:12
39.   Mattpat11
32 Oh good. He's hitting it the other way.
2007-05-29 16:48:25
40.   yankz
37 Haha! I bet we could make it "Full bottle of 151" and still be healthy.
2007-05-29 16:48:47
41.   yankz
Bad inning and I'm out again. Be back later.
2007-05-29 16:49:26
42.   Mattpat11
38 Oh good. I'm sure he'll be back soon.
2007-05-29 16:50:19
43.   Jim Dean
34 You're three beers down - start chugging.
2007-05-29 16:50:24
44.   mehmattski
Did anyone else see that MiniWheats commercial? I had to check to make sure I wasn't high...
2007-05-29 16:51:26
45.   Mattpat11
44 Details?
2007-05-29 16:53:02
46.   Jim Dean
I'll drink to that.
2007-05-29 16:53:49
47.   seamus
38 that is a start. he needs to get that pitch count down. he cold be all over the place. hard to tell from those stats.
2007-05-29 16:56:27
48.   Mattpat11
47 I would have to assume he is. Thats how he pitches. I don't think a month is going to change that
2007-05-29 16:57:18
49.   Jim Dean
47 Except he just gave up a two-run shot to Chris Shelton.

Me, I'd rather see Clippard get a few more shots any ways.

2007-05-29 16:57:47
50.   mehmattski
45 Scene: beach/luau, with characters that look like they're from Disney's Pocohantas. A sign reads "Welcome to the Land of Vanilla,"

A female (long eyelashes) miniwheat is applying a bottle of "Vanilla Flavor" to the back of the male miniwheat, who is singing:

"My little story takes place at a tropical villa
I fell in love with the flavor
Yes it was vanilla."

Zoom back to some hula dancers, giant island men and the chorus:

"Miniwheats... wheats... wheats
I've wanted vanilla for so long
Miniwheats... wheats... wheats
It's high in fiber, you can't go wrong."

"Vanilla makes me weak
Got a flavor can't be beat"
(Scoops what I can only imagine is vanilla flowing from a pipe)
"Vanilla flavor mixed with wheat
Tastes so good, what a treat."

A giant easter island head announces:
Kellogg's miniwheats mixed with vanilla. Tastes so good... good... good...

Zooms out to the whole island, complete with masked men doing tribal dances.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-05-29 16:58:23
51.   seamus
48 he had good control while in japan. So that isn't "How he pitches" necessarily. That said, he wouldn't be throwing at AAA right now fi the Yanks didn't think he had made some progress with his new throwing motion. Still, it will probably take a bit longer for the motion to take hold and be effective, if it ever does.
2007-05-29 16:58:41
52.   nemecizer
Sh*t, my manifesto was posted to the wrong thread. Dammit!

Oh well, it wasn't that good anyway.

2007-05-29 16:58:54
53.   seamus
49 Clippard is a better pitcher so I don't have a problem with that.
2007-05-29 16:59:14
54.   Mattpat11
51 Can't wait.
2007-05-29 17:01:23
55.   Alvaro Espinoza
When exactly did '06 A-rod show up?
2007-05-29 17:02:07
56.   seamus
55 arod has always struck out a lot.
2007-05-29 17:02:47
57.   Emma Span
50 I hate to be the one to break this to you... but I think you're high.

Okay, fine, I'm going back to check. This is exactly why god invented the Tivo.

2007-05-29 17:04:04
58.   mehmattski
57 I should disclose that I'm watching the Blue Jays' feed on Extra Innings. So maybe it's a Canada-only commercial. Entirely possible, with how absurd/borderline offensive it is.
2007-05-29 17:06:33
59.   Jim Dean
And I'll drink to the screeching of: "Giambi drills one to DEEP RIGHT...."
2007-05-29 17:08:43
60.   nemecizer
So far a pretty good outing by Pettitte. Why do we waste that with no offense?
2007-05-29 17:09:18
61.   Chyll Will
50,58 Uh-oh. You've been eating what I eat. Welcome to the opposite side of sanity, Chyll Matt Ski! >;)
2007-05-29 17:09:38
62.   Emma Span
58 Oh, good. Because I'm watching YES and was trying to figure out how to tell you, tactfully, that you might be losing your mind...

But nope, it's just the MiniWheats ad agency that's gone mad.

2007-05-29 17:12:44
63.   seamus
60 he seems to have settled in nicely. i thought he looked shaky to start.
2007-05-29 17:13:26
64.   Chyll Will
I'm thinking you should probably avoid 61 in this lifetime.
2007-05-29 17:13:31
65.   Jim Dean
I'll drink again: "They trail 1-0 to the Yanks in the bottom of the fifth".
2007-05-29 17:14:19
66.   nemecizer
63 He got through the first 4 innings averaging 12 pitches an inning. But he might have looked shaky, I am watching on gameday.
2007-05-29 17:14:21
67.   seamus
65 what are you talking about?
2007-05-29 17:14:44
68.   seamus
66 a lot of hard hit balls in the first two innings.
2007-05-29 17:15:10
69.   nemecizer
Two fucking outs already?!?
2007-05-29 17:15:13
70.   SteveF
2007-05-29 17:15:21
71.   Jim Dean
See 8
2007-05-29 17:15:35
72.   Mattpat11
Well that was a productive inning
2007-05-29 17:16:07
73.   seamus
71 ok. not listening to sterling so it seems a bit abstract.
2007-05-29 17:16:20
74.   mehmattski
65 The danger in your strategy is that as you drink, you'll start hearing nonsense which may or may not actually be spoken by Sterling. Then again, if the goal is to get plastered...

Drink up, the world's about to end!

2007-05-29 17:16:22
75.   nemecizer
Cano. DEAD!
Abreu. DEAD!
Mienakdnghajsngwicz. DEAD!


2007-05-29 17:17:20
76.   Chyll Will
72 (...GameDay is Real Slow...)
2007-05-29 17:17:39
77.   Mattpat11
2007-05-29 17:17:40
78.   mehmattski
70 Thank you! I'm not insane!

But, watching that commercial too much could be hazardous.

2007-05-29 17:18:49
79.   nemecizer
70 That's ... disturbing for some reason.
2007-05-29 17:19:47
80.   Max
I can't even rail against any negativity anymore when the team seems to crave it so voraciously with their play. Did the 1962 Mets make every opposing pitcher look this good?

I haven't given up...but wow, this is one heck of a parallel universe I've landed in.

2007-05-29 17:20:22
81.   Mattpat11
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the Yankees get the tying run at least in scoring position before the game ends.
2007-05-29 17:20:23
82.   nemecizer
Gameday is slow.
2007-05-29 17:22:38
83.   nemecizer
urge to kill rising
2007-05-29 17:23:02
84.   seamus
jim dean - almost got another pettitte quality start going...
2007-05-29 17:23:20
85.   Jim Dean
74 It's a win-win.
2007-05-29 17:23:42
86.   mehmattski
81 Hey, don't forget Speedy Giambi in the second inning...
2007-05-29 17:24:15
87.   Chyll Will
83 How many times did you watch that commercial?
2007-05-29 17:26:51
88.   seamus
70 people on youtube really like that song...
2007-05-29 17:28:49
89.   mehmattski
Don't know if YES showed this, but Damon switched shoes when he got to first base. He didn't even tie them, just slipped off his cleats and slipped on some sneakers. His mom would probably be upset. "Tie your shoes Johnny!"
2007-05-29 17:29:22
90.   vockins
Anybody think the Dodgers or Angels would take ARod and Damon or Abreu by the ASB? If this team is under .500 by then, and I don't see much reason why it wouldn't, that might be a pretty good move.
2007-05-29 17:30:06
91.   mehmattski
90 Hard enough to get one player to waive a full no-trade clause, let alone two or three...
2007-05-29 17:30:38
92.   Mattpat11
89 Odds he trips, falls down, and misses the next three games?
2007-05-29 17:30:54
93.   nemecizer
2007-05-29 17:32:56
94.   Mattpat11
93 You're ugh frightens me. I think I'm behind
2007-05-29 17:33:23
95.   nemecizer
89 That can't be a good sign. Doesn't Damon suffer from heel splints?
2007-05-29 17:34:02
96.   nemecizer
94 Sorry, just general despair.
2007-05-29 17:34:09
97.   Jim Dean
90 Arod's the most tradeable and then he could spin leaving as a way to help the team. But then the Yanks better get some position players of value rather than 5 more mL pitchers.
2007-05-29 17:34:15
98.   vockins
91 I think the chances ARod will play out his contract with the Yanks are about as likely as the Yanks winning the AL East this year. I don't see any reason why Damon would complain, either. Abreu, maybe.
2007-05-29 17:34:29
99.   mehmattski
94 Nothing particularly ugh worthy so far in the 6th, other than foul ball after foul ball after foul ball...

And Damon is running on like every pitch, he's sure to make 92 come true...

2007-05-29 17:34:41
100.   Mattpat11
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-05-29 17:35:53
101.   seamus
97 Arod is far more marketable than any of the other guys we've recently unloaded. so that should be doable.
2007-05-29 17:36:05
102.   vockins
97 Oh yeah, position players all the way, unless they are willing to part with John Lackey.
2007-05-29 17:36:53
103.   Mattpat11
101 Sheffield is a big frightening man that can scare consumers into buying Sheffield shirts.
2007-05-29 17:39:35
104.   Mattpat11
My prediction has come true.
2007-05-29 17:40:06
105.   Jim Dean
98 But Abreu would have to find himself for the cash involved. And the Yanks would have to help pay Damon to leave.
2007-05-29 17:40:15
106.   seamus
103 maybe if we had a haunted house?
2007-05-29 17:40:45
107.   Jim Dean
Why the hell is Posada swinging at the first pitch?
2007-05-29 17:41:37
108.   mehmattski
98 Yes, I'm fairly certain that A-Rod opts out, after the season. But there is no reason that Scott Boras would ever allow A-Rod to be traded during the season when he can get maximum value after 2007 no matter what.

The Angels would actually have to part with some young talent... not Erick "projects to be an average player" Aybar... we're talking Kendrick/Kotchman and Santana/Weaver as a starting point, even for Abreu. So that's not going to happen. With the Dodgers it's gotta start with Ethier, and why would they want Abreu if they have to trade away a younger version of the same player?

The trade talk will make a lot more sense around the All-Star break, provided the Yanks are still double digits behind.

2007-05-29 17:41:53
109.   Mattpat11
106 I smell money.
2007-05-29 17:42:08
110.   williamnyy23
I really hope Joe isn't going to tell us after the game that Marcum deserves more credit than the team deserves blame.
2007-05-29 17:43:33
111.   nemecizer
I just don't see A-Rod going. I don't see anyone picking up his contract and giving him the kind of money the Yankees will. I also don't want him to leave.

How could you possibly trade a guy who averages an RBI every 5 AB and a HR every 14.4 AB?

BTW, those are career numbers. This year his average expected time to RBI is 4.3 AB and his average expected time to HR is 10 AB.

Sorry, been working on some new numbers. But those are phenomenal statistics.

2007-05-29 17:44:59
112.   JL25and3
It's incredible that a 1-0 deficit is completely insurmountable for this team.
2007-05-29 17:46:13
113.   vockins
105 I'm think it would be either Abreu or Damon, not both. For the sake of argument, let's just say Damon.

The situation might be similar to what the Marlins proposed for Beckett/Lowell. If you want ARod, you gotta take this guy, too.

2007-05-29 17:47:01
114.   pistolpete
Uh-oh...2-0 is even more completely insurmountable...
2007-05-29 17:48:37
115.   Zack
I simply cannot watch this team. The suck all the life and fun out of my body. Watching the Yankees play is like staring at a Dementor. In fact, I think I'll just refer to them as the Dementors from now on...
2007-05-29 17:48:43
116.   seamus
114 are you ahead of us or just crazy?
2007-05-29 17:49:45
117.   pistolpete
I just knew we had Damon on the roster for something... :)
2007-05-29 17:50:13
118.   nyyfan22
Hey everyone. Just getting in here tonight.

Funny video I came across today - a commercial from ESPN with Jorge and Big Papi. If you haven't seen it, it's too funny:

2007-05-29 17:51:26
119.   pistolpete
116 Just referring to eventualities....
2007-05-29 17:53:15
120.   williamnyy23
Can someone get angry? Must the entire team sit on the bench forelornly? It probably wouldn't make a difference, but at least it would make me feel like someone on the team is actually as angry as I am.
2007-05-29 17:54:46
121.   seamus
120 how do you know they aren't?
2007-05-29 17:55:07
122.   mehmattski
Guess who's back... back again... Giambi's back... tell a friend...
2007-05-29 17:55:16
123.   seamus
there we go! thankfully!
2007-05-29 17:55:23
124.   Mattpat11
2007-05-29 17:55:32
125.   pistolpete
Can Paul O'Neill just sit on the bench and smash a water cooler now & then?
2007-05-29 17:56:30
126.   mehmattski
113 Okay.... so.... A-Rod and Damon for Howie Kendrick, Jered Weaver, Erick Aybar, and Bobby Wilson (AA catching prospect).
2007-05-29 17:56:45
127.   Jim Dean
Sterling: " turns................................ and it's............ GONE!"

I'll drink to that!

2007-05-29 17:57:35
128.   JL25and3
115 I flip around. I watch the first inning or two, until they fall behind. Then I go back and forth, watching bits of the game just to make sure that they're still pathetic and helpless.
2007-05-29 17:57:40
129.   nyyfan22
120 I agree, dude. Not to actually accomplish anything, but it would be nice to see.

It probably goes back to the whole 'Yankees are uber-professionals' thing. No facial hair, no long hair, no traveling without being decked out, no tossing water coolers and snapping bats over your knee. (I made those last two up)

Think how ol Lou would be in the dugout game after game like this...

2007-05-29 17:58:04
130.   vockins
108 I think Boras is going to find his ass kicked to the curb if he's arguing for ARod to stick around a sub .500 team while two teams that have a very real possibilty of winning the World Series are expressing an interest in him. And wouldn't the contract still have an opt out option after 2007 no matter what happens?

Understand that I'm not arguing that ARod sucks. He absolutely does not. He is the best third baseman the Yankees have ever had, far and away.

But the guy is going to be gone if the Yanks don't make the playoffs this year. Count on it. As Steven Goldman has already said, the Yanks might as well see if they can get some value for him. My only contribution to the idea is to see if another contract can be attached to the deal. ARod is good enough to make a team bring someone else along they might not otherwise consider.

I think Abreu is a free agent after this year anyway, so maybe forget him.

2007-05-29 17:58:05
131.   Hocakes
I can feel it, all of the luck is going to even out and they're score 153 runs this inning.
2007-05-29 17:58:49
132.   mehmattski
126 Forgot about Brandon Wood. Him instead of Aybar (Adam Everett Part Deux).
2007-05-29 18:00:16
133.   williamnyy23
121 I'm sure they are...but I want to see it Paul O'Neill-style. Before this turns into a debate, please realize that I'm not advocating that someone fake emotion. I just wish the team had an O'Neill type if only to show me that someone on the team was as angry as I am.
2007-05-29 18:01:33
134.   mehmattski
Who is Josh Phelps?
2007-05-29 18:01:38
135.   bartap74
111 I was going to post and then you said exactly what I was thinking. I want ARod here for the next 5-10 years.

Free Josh Phelps!!!!!!!!

2007-05-29 18:03:01
136.   Jim Dean
113 Sorry, you're dreaming if you think a team takes both contracts - no other team could afford it unless the Yanks give 10 million or take 10 million back.

126 Not happening. If we're lucky it would be something like Loney and Kemp.

2007-05-29 18:03:21
137.   seamus
133 no debate. i just bet they are angry. What you want is a display of emotion. I'm ok with a display. But it needs to be timely i think. Otherwise it looks silly after a while.
2007-05-29 18:03:52
138.   Mattpat11
Phelps is now 5 for 14 with 1 HR and a 2B. Think he will derail Stinkapalooza?
2007-05-29 18:04:05
139.   Alex Belth
133, it's funny that you say that. It reminds me of how strangely okay, even good, I felt after the Yankees lost to Cleveland in 1997. I remember Cone, Jeter, maybe a couple of others, lingering in the dugout watching the Indians celebrate. They were fuming, especially Cone. And I remember thinking, "Wow, these guys are angrier than I am. This feels good."
2007-05-29 18:05:32
140.   mehmattski
135 I agree with you; I don't want it to seem like I'm not an A-Rod fan. I absolutely am, he's been one of my favorite players for a long time.

But, it's an age-old debate: if the trade I proposed in 126 (with Wood instead of Aybar) was feasible, wouldn't you pull the trigger? Is one great player worth more than four good ones? You can answer the question analytically through Runs Created and WARP, but the point is that if the Yankees can improve depth, and get younger and better at many positions... trading the best player has to at least be considered.

I really hope the Yankees find some way to stay competitive for the next 5-10 years while keeping A-Rod and while not breaking the bank for every aging vet. But I would sacrifice the former before the latter.

2007-05-29 18:07:10
141.   nyyfan22
They should have Giambi take off his cleat and show the (possibly) bloody sock. That'll fire everyone up!
2007-05-29 18:09:16
142.   ChrisS
Where have you gone Rob Cano?

I keep waiting for his bat to come around, but I'm starting to think that last year was a complete fluke.

2007-05-29 18:10:46
143.   mehmattski
136 A-Rod, Damon, and cash for Loney, Kemp, and Martin? Wouldn't that solve all your problems?
2007-05-29 18:13:32
144.   Mattpat11
I did not know Matt Stairs was still in baseball.
2007-05-29 18:14:01
145.   Mattpat11
come on DP.
2007-05-29 18:15:13
146.   Jim Dean
143 Not happening - why would they ever trade Martin? And after the money they gave Pierre, there's no way they take on Damon too.

I think Loney and Kemp is doable but more because Loney is struggling in AAA. That would be a fine trade for half a season of Arod.

2007-05-29 18:15:32
147.   pistolpete
So what is THAT crap?!!!
2007-05-29 18:16:04
148.   Mattpat11
Okay. I think the problem is we have the Phelps/Stink situation backwards. We should minimize the Stink's AB but bring him in late in games. Not the other way around.
2007-05-29 18:16:26
149.   Jim Dean
1 and 3rd TWO outs jackass.
2007-05-29 18:16:29
150.   seamus
he should be out!
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-05-29 18:16:38
151.   Benjamin Kabak
I really hope that Phillips is drilled with a pitch sometime tonight or tomorrow. That was completely uncalled for. Run in the basepath.
2007-05-29 18:16:44
152.   bartap74
I kind of want Phelps to pull a Pierzinski and deck Phillips. How would that be for putting a fire under the team?
2007-05-29 18:17:16
153.   seamus
he was outside the basepath where you can't run and he ran into the fielder who was not inside the basepath. that means you are out doesn't it?
2007-05-29 18:17:32
154.   bartap74
Then again, with those glasses, maybe Phillips just didn't see him?
2007-05-29 18:18:18
155.   pistolpete
Ok, new official low point in the season.
2007-05-29 18:18:27
156.   Mattpat11
uiinbh jmmju7yhtrgfgvyhuj;.
2007-05-29 18:18:29
157.   mehmattski
Oh fucking hell. That's it. Season's over.
2007-05-29 18:18:40
158.   Jim Dean
Well, that's a new way to lose.
2007-05-29 18:18:44
159.   Benjamin Kabak
Nice. This team is just asleep in the field too.
2007-05-29 18:18:49
160.   bartap74
Wow. I don't know if I've ever seen that before
2007-05-29 18:19:01
161.   Mattpat11
2007-05-29 18:19:38
162.   Mattpat11
2007-05-29 18:20:25
163.   tommyl
You have to be kidding me. Pettite gives up 2 unearned runs, one on a steal of home. Its getting hard not to question the coaches at this point. Nice to know that IF practice really helped.
2007-05-29 18:21:31
164.   nemecizer
2007-05-29 18:21:39
165.   williamnyy23
How does that happen?
2007-05-29 18:21:42
166.   mehmattski
Hey, I suppose David Cone's walk-off-bases-loaded-balk was worse.
2007-05-29 18:22:09
167.   Jim Dean
Mattpat11 = Rob Gee?
2007-05-29 18:22:23
168.   nemecizer
2007-05-29 18:22:30
169.   williamnyy23
When was the last time this team even had a lead?
2007-05-29 18:23:19
170.   pistolpete
Oh good, it happened to us against Flaherty - that makes me feel better.
2007-05-29 18:23:25
171.   bartap74
Now if Phillips gets called out for interference, that doesn't happen. But nobody seems concerned about that.
2007-05-29 18:23:26
172.   nemecizer
Say it to yourself:


It's gotta rhyme with "om" somehow.

2007-05-29 18:24:15
173.   pistolpete
Jeter is really floating in his own personal good luck bubble - wish he'd share it with everyone else...
2007-05-29 18:24:41
174.   ChrisS
At this point in the season, to me, it's like in Major League when Rick Vaughn gives up the grand slam to Clue Heyward and Pepper asks Lou Brown if he should go get Vaughn and Brown says, "No, I want to see how he handles it."

Boston is playing as well as any team can play and I'm not sure the Yankees can finish above .500 at this point. I just want to see how they handle it.

2007-05-29 18:24:42
175.   mehmattski
171 I don't think it was interference, Phelps was blocking the path to first base. I could do without the smirk after he smashed into our firstbaseman though. Maybe there's some bad blood from their minor league days?
2007-05-29 18:25:15
176.   florida yanks
Can someone watching describe how they stole home?
2007-05-29 18:25:42
177.   JL25and3
171 It wasn't interference. Phillips had as much right to the bag as Phelps did.
2007-05-29 18:25:50
178.   seamus
175 Phelps was NOT blocking the path to first. Both Phelps and the runner were outside of the basepath.
2007-05-29 18:25:51
179.   Benjamin Kabak
175 Phillips was running outside the base path. Phelps was on first base awaiting the ball. I think that may have been interference. But Joe doesn't ever argue. Or watch the game.
2007-05-29 18:26:20
180.   JL25and3
176 He took a walking lead off third, then broke for home. The pitch was high, the tag was late.
2007-05-29 18:27:14
181.   seamus
176 straight steal. Pettite was looking at first briefly when the runner on third started going. Pettitte didn't see it quick enough. Posada jumped and called for the ball and Pettitte threw home but he was safe.
2007-05-29 18:27:21
182.   vockins
136 I'm not going to pretend I know the intricacies of MLB contracts. So if someone wants to tear me a new a new a on the contract stuff I've laid out below, go ahead.

Let's say this Disneyland trade happens. The Angels are on the hook for half of what the Yanks pay ARod. So that would be $7 mil. For the Angels, this is no BFD.

The reason why I think the Yanks can tack on the Damon contract is that the Angels would have the possibility that ARod won't use his opt out and he sticks around for another two years. They've saved themselves the grief of throwing their hat into the ARod ring after this season and having to commit to what could conceivably be the most insane contract in the history of baseball.

Certainly, if ARod opts out after 2007, the Angels will be calling Scott Boras morning, noon, and night to try and work something out. They are a front runner for his services, if not the front runner.

With my scenario, they've at least got the possibility that they can keep ARod around, get his bat in the lineup now to become the surefire AL West winner, and potentially save some money because they didn't have to sign ARod to some wacky eight year deal after 2007.

That's how I'd sell it, anyway. You lose $26 mil over the next two years with Damon, or you sign up for $200 mil for eight with ARod.

2007-05-29 18:27:24
183.   JeremyM
I know Matsui has his fans, and I was one of them, but I think his extension is turning out to be a big mistake. It seems like he's always good for a worthless at-bat in a big spot this year.

I was at a Yanks game in KC with Pettitte pitching, and they stole home on him there. Can't remember who was catching though. Andy was pretty pissed about it.

Come on A-Rod.

2007-05-29 18:27:24
184.   mehmattski
176 Clayton kept stepping out and Pettitte was taking his sweet time, his back to third base. Hill took a walking start, made it to the end of the dirt around third and as soon as Pettitte went to a set, Hill took off. He was 10 feet away when Posada got Pettitte's attention, and there was no chance.
2007-05-29 18:27:26
185.   Benjamin Kabak
Can we pretty pretty pretty please make the Blue Jays pay for these errors? Please, baseball gods? What do I need to sacrifice to make you happy?
2007-05-29 18:27:47
186.   nemecizer
Look on the bright side, it's not like the Red Sox are up next or anything...


We'll pull something together. We have to.


2007-05-29 18:28:19
187.   florida yanks
180 Thanks - unfrickingbelievable. Last time I saw that was Claudell Washington, but that was a good thing!
2007-05-29 18:28:43
188.   Mattpat11
We may be putting something together here.
2007-05-29 18:28:51
189.   nick
please, somebody describe--damn espn scoreboard says 1-1 in the top of the 8th....
2007-05-29 18:29:02
190.   Benjamin Kabak
2007-05-29 18:29:03
191.   Mattpat11
Oh Thank God.
2007-05-29 18:29:35
192.   JL25and3
179He was running in fair territory, but not out of the basepath. Here's the interference rule: , rule 7.09.
2007-05-29 18:29:37
193.   Mattpat11
I really believe that steal of home was rock bottom. We may even win this game.
2007-05-29 18:29:55
194.   pistolpete
Toronto is obviously playing with a 'f*ck it' attitude with that steal of home - I'd love to see us play like that at some point too...
2007-05-29 18:30:13
195.   nemecizer

What happened for those of us on Gameday?

2007-05-29 18:30:20
196.   seamus
192 you can't run in fair territory to first. You have to run in foul territory. The basepath is entirely within that box in foul territory.
2007-05-29 18:32:44
197.   mehmattski
195 Single to center, Jeter scores, A-Rod to second.
2007-05-29 18:35:14
198.   tommyl
And suddenly we're having a patient AB. Oh yeah, I remember what those are now.
2007-05-29 18:36:57
199.   Jim Dean
182 I've got a few problems with it:

1) No way the Angels take Damon since they just signed Matthews. I just can't see it.

2) Angels have very little in the system that the Yanks need except Napoli or Kotchman. And I just can't see the Angels trading either of them.

3) I can't see Stoneman taking a risk. He just doesn't trade anyone of talent.

I see a much better match with the Dodgers with two of LaRoache, Loney and/or Kemp. All three the Yanks need in the near future and the Dodgers don't have as much of a need. Plus, Colletti seems more amenable to rolling the dice.

2007-05-29 18:37:25
200.   pistolpete
Attention, Yankees: ABREU IS USELESS.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-05-29 18:38:24
201.   williamnyy23
200 I was going to state the exact same sentiment.
2007-05-29 18:39:36
204.   cult of basebaal
182 i just don't see a trade with ANA happening, Stoneman's style is much more in line with trying for a free agent signing in the offseason. And the angels have absolutely no use for damon or abreu

ugh ... with at bats like that, i don't think the newark bears would have any use for abreu ... jesus, someone needs to paste his face on a milk carton and leave it in his locker ...

2007-05-29 18:40:05
205.   nemecizer
Time for bats to wake up! Where is Pedro Cerano when we need him?!? HATS FOR BATS!

Who drank Jobu's rum, Abreu?

2007-05-29 18:40:15
206.   seamus
201 don't do that. it widens our screens.
2007-05-29 18:40:58
207.   mehmattski
203 Please, is your friend.
2007-05-29 18:41:10
208.   nemecizer
206 I apologize, I didn't mean to post it. I clicked to delete and it posted twice automatically for some reason.
2007-05-29 18:41:34
209.   Jim Dean
201 Or at least put a space in every 20 characters.
2007-05-29 18:41:37
210.   seamus
206 sorry to 201. meant 202 and 203
2007-05-29 18:41:39
211.   cult of basebaal
199 plus colleti has inherited sabean's weird obsession with groovy veteranosity ...
2007-05-29 18:41:46
212.   pistolpete
Should have let that roll foul, A-Rod...
2007-05-29 18:42:14
213.   ChrisS
204 the sad thing is that he has more RBI than Giambi.
2007-05-29 18:42:22
214.   Benjamin Kabak
Er, that was totally going foul. Brain fart in the field for A-Rod again.

This would be the perfect time for Bruney to come in and strike out someone.

2007-05-29 18:43:09
215.   JeremyM
So will Lind try to steal home?
2007-05-29 18:43:14
216.   Jim Dean
Isn't this a better time for Bruney - needing a K and all?
2007-05-29 18:43:19
217.   seamus
ok, so far in May we are 2-4 in games where the other team scores 3 runs. We are winless when they score 4 or more runs. We are 6-1 when they score two runs. So this is obviously an important half inning.
2007-05-29 18:43:42
218.   williamnyy23
Matsui is really a bad fielder. The entire Yankees OF is bad.

Bringing Prcotr here makes little sense because he is a flyball pitcher and Rios is a fastball hitter. I think the move is to walk Rios and have Andy try to coax a DP from Overbay.

2007-05-29 18:43:53
219.   mehmattski
217 Don't forget 2-9 on the season in one-run games.
2007-05-29 18:44:52
220.   Jim Dean
So Proctor has been ill with food posioning for the last day and a half, and now's the time to bring him in, huh?
2007-05-29 18:45:05
221.   JeremyM
So Torre is really going to stake his job to Proctor? Because I honestly believe that's what he's doing here. Bruney was the right choice.
2007-05-29 18:45:09
222.   pistolpete
Did we need someone to unintentionally intentionally load the bases? If so, good move by Joe bringing in Proctor!
2007-05-29 18:45:29
223.   mehmattski
218 Do pitching changes ever make sense to you? I'd like you to find me a baseball game where you questioned zero pitching changes.
2007-05-29 18:45:31
224.   cult of basebaal
216 no, its big important situation time in the non-save, non-lefthanded batter kind way... ergo, it's time for scott proctor
2007-05-29 18:47:05
225.   Benjamin Kabak
I blame A-Rod. He fielded a ball that was about to roll foul.
2007-05-29 18:47:23
226.   mehmattski
218 Even if you were, ultimately, prophetic in this case.
2007-05-29 18:48:00
227.   Jim Dean
218 Props for the Carnac.
2007-05-29 18:48:07
228.   pistolpete
At this point I'd rather keep getting blown out - at least I can turn it off early and go play video games or something...
2007-05-29 18:48:15
229.   seamus
226 the truth is that folks seem to question any pitching move that doesn't involve bringing in Bruney or Mo. So inveitably, they question 90% of pitching changes.
2007-05-29 18:48:16
230.   nyyfan22
Another shaft outing for Pettitte.
2007-05-29 18:48:29
231.   williamnyy23
223 Do you find a flaw in my logic or do you just resent that I have an opinion different from yours?
2007-05-29 18:48:44
232.   cult of basebaal
i wonder if the bullpen assignments would work better if cashman gave bruney a sombrero and a pancho villa mustache, then told torre he'd traded for a crack veteran reliever from the mexican leagues
2007-05-29 18:49:08
233.   Mattpat11
this year sucks
2007-05-29 18:49:24
234.   Benjamin Kabak
It's not really questioning every pitching move. Kenny Singleton said Torre's thinking strike out there. So why not go with the guy with the best strike numbers out of the pen? It doesn't make sense to use Proctor over Bruney there if that's really the motivation.
2007-05-29 18:49:33
235.   seamus
231 honestly William, I think it is what I said in 229.

In this case, I also think Bruney would have been a better choice for the same reason.

2007-05-29 18:50:48
236.   seamus
william - there is your anger!
2007-05-29 18:51:13
237.   Benjamin Kabak
At least the Devil Rays are going to lose tonight too.
2007-05-29 18:52:02
238.   Benjamin Kabak
237 At least I can watch The Shield at 10 p.m. also.
2007-05-29 18:52:08
239.   mehmattski
231 I am commenting on a pattern that you always have a problem with every pitching change. I'm asking if you can find me a game where you did not question any pitching changes, and it all went according to your logic. I'd like to know the end results of those games.

In this case, it just may be that Torre figured that Pettitte was "done." It's the 8th inning, and Farnsworth sucks, so it's time for Proctor.

2007-05-29 18:53:27
240.   seamus
I've got a theory on Cano. I may be wrong as this is all subjective. But I think that when the season started he was trying to look at more pitches and he saw more than his shares of strikes without a swing. And now I think he is overcompensating and swinging at everything even worse than before. His struggles could be his own cause. But I could be wrong...
2007-05-29 18:54:20
241.   Benjamin Kabak
240 He's moving around too much in the box. Watch video from last year. He was fairly still up there. Now it's movement.

Also, he just swung weakly at ball four.

2007-05-29 18:55:08
242.   Mattpat11
8 under.
2007-05-29 18:55:08
243.   seamus
241 that is my point. he is swinging at balls. But you may be right about the movement.
2007-05-29 18:55:10
244.   Jim Dean
Drink to "McDonald" making the play at 3rd.
2007-05-29 18:55:36
245.   williamnyy23
I hate to say it again...but once again Cano puts up a very troubling AB (his second of the game). Changes have to be made. Otherwise, the season is over.
2007-05-29 18:55:51
246.   mehmattski
I liked this game better when everyone thought I was high.

Miniwheat.... wheat... wheat...
It's high in fiber, you can't go wrong...

2007-05-29 18:55:57
247.   Eirias
It appears that we are the cure to whatever ails any other team.
2007-05-29 18:56:14
248.   seamus

244 see what we are saying about no offense? Even that one run came off those errors.

We are now 2-5 in games where we ONLY allow 3 runs. ANother quality start down the drain. What else can you do?

2007-05-29 18:56:20
249.   JeremyM
Well, I'm giving up on predicting "rock bottom," because it just gets worse and worse.
2007-05-29 18:56:35
250.   Mattpat11
I'm trying to calmly and politely sum up all the positives I feel for this worthless sack of shit baseball team.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2007-05-29 18:56:48
251.   vockins
199 Angels, Dodgers - six of one, half a dozen of the other to me.

I just think that if a team is already in the market for ARod's services after 2007, it would be in their best interest to take Damon on if they'd like to save some money and lock up one of the most productive hitter in MLB for the postseason and possibility another two years.

I think Damon would go to LA, no doubt.

2007-05-29 18:57:33
252.   seamus
All of these one run losses really highlight Torre's bullpen handling issues like never before. Usually our offense would save him. But this month in particular, there is nothing there.
2007-05-29 18:57:44
253.   nemecizer
Sorry about my bad typing earlier.

We look terrible. Just terrible.

Totally over? Not yet. Close? Maybe.

We have got to get it together.

2007-05-29 18:58:03
254.   pistolpete
You know we should have made up Bingo cards about a month ago consisting of all the different ways to lose a ball game...
2007-05-29 18:58:22
255.   williamnyy23
239 Generally, I believe in letting the starter go until he falters and then bringing in the pitcher who best suits the situation. Joe doesn't seem to share my philosophy, so naturally, I often disagree with his decisions.

Of the top of my head, I liked Joe's decision to let Colter Bean take one for the team last month. That did not turn out well.

2007-05-29 18:58:43
256.   cult of basebaal
wow ... this season is just amazin' ... and keeps on getting amazin-er ... i've thought (probably since 2001) that an off year one of these years was not just possible, but inevitable, but ironically, this was the year i felt best about the composition of the team going into the season (obvious warts and all)

anyone know who's supposed to be the big name in next year's entry draft?

2007-05-29 18:59:15
257.   Mattpat11
This team really is no fun to watch.
2007-05-29 18:59:15
258.   seamus
253 looks like it got deleted.

some folks hate to hear it, but we're gonna be like whoever that horse was that won the big race (whatever that was called). you may notice that i don't give a damn about horse racing.

2007-05-29 19:00:56
259.   Mike T
My old high school team could even take the Yankees to the woodshed right now. This is pathetic.
2007-05-29 19:02:57
260.   cult of basebaal
251 but neither of those teams is taking damon ... or abreu

unless, of course, you'd like the pleasure of watching juan pierre lead the league in outs and chase flyballs like a peg-legged drunk falling down stairs

2007-05-29 19:04:02
261.   JL25and3
250 OK, here's my list of positives:

1. Petttittte has been terrific.


2007-05-29 19:04:41
262.   williamnyy23
Jeter's first inning bunt is the play that is gnawing at me most. For some reason, I really feel like the game was lost there. The attempt seemed to imply "we aren't going to score, so let's play for one here". Sure enough, with that attitude, that's pretty much how the team performed.
2007-05-29 19:04:53
263.   mehmattski
261 2. Jeter and Posada lead the league in hitting.
2007-05-29 19:05:09
264.   e double trouble
they're still not playing as a team
maybe they should start by having fun?
maybe they need to hear a rousing version of "You Gotta Have Heart"!!
it's great being at the bottom
let's enjoy it while it lasts
Cheer up! it's only going to get worse
before it gets better again

looking on the bright
it's nice when they're out of town
and I can hear the home crowds going nuts
as they put our Yanks to shame

enjoy everyone!

2007-05-29 19:06:19
265.   pistolpete
Pettite's probably thinking he could have stayed in Houston and commuted home every night if he wanted to lose this much.
2007-05-29 19:06:35
266.   williamnyy23
Does anyone think that if Bobby Abreu was showered with a chorus of boos everytime he stepped to the plate at YS he would care? Oddly, that's why I like Arod so much.
2007-05-29 19:08:50
267.   tommyl
And just when you think we've hit rock bottom.

Does anyone remember what seeing Mo in a save situation even looks like? I'm going to have to start watching Yankee classics.

2007-05-29 19:09:16
268.   seamus
266 yes. Actually, Abreu seems very sensitive to that kind of stuff. He reminds me a lot of ARod like that. At least that is the vibe I pick up from him.
2007-05-29 19:09:29
269.   JL25and3
258 You're probably thinking of Seabiscuit. But the horse you really want to compare them with is Silky Sullivan, famous for coming from way, way behind to win.

2007-05-29 19:10:19
270.   vockins
Accardo's on my fantasy team. That's something.
2007-05-29 19:11:46
271.   JL25and3
263 Not for long. Jeter's started to slump, and coming into today he's third, behind Ordonez. And we know Posada won't keep hitting at this pace...
2007-05-29 19:12:43
272.   williamnyy23
All anger and emotion aside, I think Cashman needs to sit down with Joe and convince him to resign. Maybe, just maybe, that will relieve the pressure on this team and allow them to just go out and play. There is no practical way to reform the roster, so changing the manager is the only option. It might be a shot in the dark, but it's time to fire it. Joe has had a good run; now it's time for him to step aside and see if a new voice will get through.
2007-05-29 19:13:18
273.   Yu-Hsing Chen
7.1 IP of 1 run ball and we lose, WOW, someone's gotta be fired for this, I finally get a week of vacation from teh freaking Navy and i seen exactly 0 win? yuck
2007-05-29 19:13:22
274.   Chyll Will
246 Hi! Hope you feel better...
2007-05-29 19:16:00
275.   williamnyy23
By the way...this is my "rock bottom" predicition. Randy Johnson is now on schedule to start against the team on June 14. I predict he will throw a 3-hit shutout and drop the team to 15 games under.
2007-05-29 19:16:39
276.   JL25and3
272 I wouldn't walk away from that much money, and I wouldn't expect Joe to. If Cashman wants to get rid of Joe, then fire him.
2007-05-29 19:16:41
277.   C2Coke
265 LOL! I was saying the same thing to my TV as I was watching the game.

273 All I could say after the game was, "wow, wow, is this situation even possible?"

2007-05-29 19:17:14
278.   williamnyy23
272 I meant resign with a full pay check.
2007-05-29 19:18:27
279.   seamus
272 I think you are right. The way I see it, the team is playing scared/pressing. They need to play like there is nothing to lose. With Joe gone, they might be pissed about that (that may be good) or just ready to say "frack it". In any case, as down as this team has gotten, it may actually have a positive impact.
2007-05-29 19:20:05
280.   williamnyy23
279 Ironically, they may also be playing scared, knowing Torre's job hangs in the balance. The upside to letting Torre go is now much greater than the risk.
2007-05-29 19:21:14
281.   Chyll Will
279 The only positive I can forsee coming out of that is identifying who the slackers are. If cutting Joe loose doesn't pick up some people's games, nothing will.
2007-05-29 19:22:41
282.   seamus
280 i think the wanting to play for joe is a factor affecting the team.
2007-05-29 19:26:11
283.   williamnyy23
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I really wish Clemens wasn't coming on board. As one of his biggest fans, I can't see anything positive coming from his being in this putrid environment. I really don't want his last season in pinstripes to be ugly, and it sure looks like that's how it's going to be.
2007-05-29 19:29:00
284.   williamnyy23
Before I explode, just one more dead horse. Gary Sheffield is having another great game. The Yankees really miss his bat and his presence. I was 100% wrong in advocating the trade. As he departed, Sheffield said something like you'll see that Abreu isn't as good as I am. Could he have been any more prophetic?
2007-05-29 19:32:25
285.   Mattpat11
284 It would have been better if we didn't trade him for Jaret Wright.
2007-05-29 19:36:26
286.   nick
wow................ok, gotta agree with william: bruney (or in an ideal world mo) in that situation: proctor is an extreme fly ball pitcher and his K rate is very low this year. but one expects this from Joe. the steal of home, that was not so expected......and then when they tried to give it to us in the 8th and we said 'no thanks'
2007-05-29 19:40:30
287.   rsmith51
284 Perhaps, but did you notice who Sheff started? Maybe Sheff would have been fine at 1b? Then Minky could have the role that he should have.
2007-05-29 19:44:57
288.   AbbyNormal821
Man, I'm depressed (ask the 1/2 bag of BBQ chips I inhaled a little while ago!) And I haven't done that in MONTHS!

This sucks beyond the telling of it! What else is there to do? Beg? Cheat? Steal? Kill? Pray? Make voodoo dolls of Josh Beckett (8-0??? How the F did that happen??).

...thank goodness I don't have a quart of Rocky Road in the freezer!!!


2007-05-29 19:47:46
289.   debris
623 Jeter is third. Posada .360 and going down, Youkilis .358 and rising, Jeter .350 and going down.
2007-05-29 19:50:17
290.   debris
289 Correction. Jeter is 4th, current MVP leader Ordonez is tied with Youk at .358.
2007-05-29 19:58:55
291.   nick
288 or a bottle of Stoli....
2007-05-29 20:09:21
292.   weeping for brunnhilde
Remember back in the Bobby V days when the Mets were NY's sideshow?

At least they had in him the right kind of frontman for a sideshow.


This is just painful.

If this is the kind of year it's going to be, let's at least find a lovable loser-type to manage the team.

Someone with panache.

A showman.

Someone who will make my dream come true and play Giambi at short for few days for my own amusement.

Maybe it's time to think about a mascott of some sort.

Someone like Mr. Met only with a bigger head.

Or wouldn't it be cool to watch some of the position players pitch a little?

I'll be Alex could pick up pitching and do a decent job of it.


I got it!!

Let's get Morgan to manage!!

What do you guys think?

Winning ideas, no?

2007-05-29 20:12:12
293.   weeping for brunnhilde
To be fair, actually, Joe appreciated the humor in Giambi's infield hit and stolen base, he even chuckled out loud at the absurdity of it all.

And by "it all" I mean "it all."

Giambi gave him the pretext to laugh, which was actually a very warm, sympathetic moment.

The poor man.

I feel for him.

2007-05-29 20:12:21
294.   JL25and3
284 One of the few things that brings me pleasure about this season is knowing that they finally got rid of Sheffield.
2007-05-29 20:17:32
295.   weeping for brunnhilde
I know most people frown upon the bunt, and especially frown upon the bunt being used by a .350 hitter, and especially frown upon the bunt being used by a .350 hitter with no outs in the first inning.

I get it, really, I do.

However, is it possible that playing for one run might be the right thing to do in some circumstances because scoring first puts the other team on the defensive and thus it pays to take the bird in the hand rather than the two in the bush?

I ask because I often hear the players (O'Neill, Hernandez, Leiter, Flaherty, etc.) musing about how such things effect the morale of a team and how that morale effects performance.

In other words, not all runs are created equal. Some of them have more psychological power than others, or at least the players believe they do.

Is it possible that this is the sort of factor that can't be quantified with stats?

Is there any merit to this kind of thinking, i.e., that pressure is a real factor in games and can be inflicted on another team by something like, e.g., scoring a quick one out of the box?

2007-05-29 20:24:11
296.   williamnyy23
294 Point taken...although I find no pleasure in replacing a 125 OPS+ with 57.

It's official...Bobby Abreu has become Tony Womack with much less speed.

2007-05-29 20:29:00
297.   JL25and3
295 Always listen to Earl Weaver. Weaver's Fourth, Fifth and Sixth Laws:

4.Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.

5.If you play for one run, that's all you'll get.

6.Don't play for one run unless you know that run will win a ballgame.

Or look at it this way: Jeter used up an out, and they still didn't score the run. It just doesn't increase the odds of scoring even one run enough to warrant using up the out.

2007-05-29 20:33:38
298.   weeping for brunnhilde
297 Thanks, I know, I understand the philosophy, I'm just wondering if it's as sound as people think it is.

What if it's more complicated than that?

I'm just asking questions because maybe Earl Weaver missed something.

Maybe Bill James did.

Who knows?

2007-05-29 20:36:04
299.   weeping for brunnhilde
297 Oh, I should mention that I did read Moneyball, and while I certainly may not have understood it as keenly as some, I think I get the basic argument, I just didn't find it quite so compelling as others, perhaps because baseball gratifies aesthetic needs of mine, so it doesn't just come down to percentages for me.

Not that it does for others, I don't mean to be presumptuous.

Just my perspective.

2007-05-29 20:45:56
300.   JL25and3
299 I don't know, maybe it does give a psychological boost, but I don't know how to gauge that. I don't think anyone can in advance - you only know there's a psychological boost later. There must have been half a dozen times tonight where Singleton or Flaherty said, "That's the kind of hit/play/at-bat/whatever that can really turn things around." Of course, none of them did.

Any of them could have, but only if they worked. I'd say the same for the bunt. And when it doesn't work, it's just another out.

Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2007-05-29 20:56:22
301.   weeping for brunnhilde
300 Heh heh. No kidding, there's a lot of kinds of whatevers that can turn things around.

You know who I love listening to? O'Neill. You want to develop an appreciation for the horrors of the game, just listen to O'Neill.

One he was talking about how during a slump you just play all sorts of mind games with yourself. If you're home, you tell yourself sleeping in your own bed will help, if you're away, a change of scenery, etc.

Your point is taken.

2007-05-29 20:59:23
302.   bbfan1
"AbbyNormal821: voodoo dolls of Josh Beckett (8-0??? How the F did that happen??)."

Um, he's got great freaking stuff and good run support? A lot of people don't like beckett, but you'd have to be blind not to understand why he should be successful.

2007-05-29 21:29:42
303.   yankz
290 Do you actually think a "slump" right now (after a 2-4 game yesterday) will in any determine the batting race? Or were you trying to troll without sounding like one? I ask you again, where were you last year during the Red Sox 8-21 month where they were swept in 5 games at home?

Meanwhile, Andy Pettitte is becoming the new poster boy for why wins are a stupid stat.

2007-05-29 21:30:28
304.   yankz
BTW, I love that Mini Wheats commercial. Tastes so good, good, good...
2007-05-29 21:40:14
305.   yankz
I think the only way the Yanks haven't lost is ending a game on that "Chicken! I dare you to run!" bit from Rookie of the Year.
2007-05-29 22:05:44
306.   yankz
303 Sorry, that was a bit out of line. I can only keep up this charm for so long!
2007-05-29 22:46:28
307.   yankz
Perspective, in a cheesy yet beautiful form...

2007-05-29 23:13:48
308.   NBarnes
Speaking as a Red Sox fan, I, at least, try not to gloat too much. In large part because I think the Yankees are a much better team than they are currently showing and are likely to have a much stronger second half, and I don't want to look like a gloating moron when that happens. I'd like to think that part of it is also that I'm not a total asshole. But...

This sucks beyond the telling of it! What else is there to do? Beg? Cheat? Steal? Kill? Pray? Make voodoo dolls of Josh Beckett (8-0??? How the F did that happen??).

This made me laugh my ass off. Now you know how we felt about Aaron FREAKING Small. 10-0? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over?

2007-05-29 23:30:20
309.   dzzrtRatt
maybe they need to hear a rousing version of "You Gotta Have Heart"!!

Wouldn't that be ironic? (In the show Damn Yankees, this is the song Washington Senators players sing to inspire them against the mighty Yanks.)

For Yankee-loathers, this is a depressing year. It's one thing to see Boston finally kick their asses, or the Angels knock them down a peg. It's another when they present less of a challenge than the D-rays.

The Dodgers have at least two veteran mediocre pitchers, Tomko and Hendrickson, who you guys could use. Pettitte they ain't. But better than the rest. Hendrickson knows the AL East. Tomko is capable of throwing a great game (and then not.)

2007-05-30 02:28:59
310.   nick
310 Go back to Dodger Thoughts, and take your worn-out journeyman hurlers with you!
PS--We'll give ya Doug Mientkewicz for either one, take your pick.....
2007-05-30 05:41:56
311.   AbbyNormal821
308 LOL! thank you for that! That's all I'm trying to say!
(and thanks for being one of the sane RS fans...I knew there was a bunch of you out there!)
2007-05-30 05:57:07
312.   Chyll Will
304 Yeah, but have you ever tasted those things? Sugar-frosted whisk broom, shredded and wrapped in tiny corrugated cardboard boxes, aged to perfection. Yummy!
2007-05-30 05:59:02
313.   Mattpat11
309 Hendrickson knows the AL East well. He gets pounded.
2007-05-30 06:01:06
314.   jkay
2007-05-30 06:03:43
315.   williamnyy23
314 Just when I think the season can't get worse, I sit slumped on the subway in my normal morning after loss daze, look up and see that headline.


Comment status: comments have been closed. Baseball Toaster is now out of business.