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Gettin' Late Early
2007-05-27 07:18
by Alex Belth
Note: The Bronx Banter blog has moved to bronxbanterblog.com.

Chien-Ming Wang had a rough first inning. His pitches were up, his control was off and the Angels scored three runs. He was terrific over the next seven innings. The Angels didn't score again, but wouldn't ya know it, they already had more than enough to beat the Yanks, 3-1. Kelvim Escobar, and then the dynamic duo of Shields and Rodriguez were in fine form, the Yankee offense left 758 runners on base, and New York finished the day 11.5 behind Boston, who won again.

The Bombers staged a two-out rally in the ninth but Bobby Abreu struck out looking to end the game. The final pitch was not close to a strike, but the Yankees can't complain about a poor call spoiling the game, although they did anyway. According to Anthony McCarron in the News:

"The sad part about it is that you stand there at home plate and take strike three and it's in the other batter's box," Torre said of home plate umpire Jeff Nelson's call. "We'd like to at least be able to determine our own fate. There's no excuse for it and then (Nelson) has the nerve to argue back at Abreu."

..."I'm not saying (Nelson) cost us the game," Torre said. "The next pitch, he may have popped up. I'm saying I'd like to have that 27th out. That's why the game is what it is. I just don't think it was there for us because he never had a chance to swing at the pitch.

"And I'm not saying we don't swing at pitches over our heads or in the dirt, okay? I'm not one to go harp on umpires, that's part of the game, but this just got me because it was the end of the ballgame with two men on base and at least you want to give your hitter a chance to swing at a pitch."

As frustrating as the ending was--and I came close to throwing and breaking something---the fact of the matter is the Yankees simply did not hit. No excuses, they did not hit. And the Angels did what they do best: beat the Yankees.

Comments (330)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-05-27 07:50:15
1.   Mattpat11
Mussina vs Lackey. Is there any point?
2007-05-27 07:53:13
2.   Alex Belth
Yeah, I'm not currently brimming over with confidence, dammmit.
2007-05-27 08:14:38
3.   Simone
I'm going with "any given Sunday" to give me hope that the Yankees can pull out this one win.
2007-05-27 08:16:43
4.   Mattpat11
3 Have we fallen so far that we're depending on the losers credo?

I guess we have, but still...

2007-05-27 08:52:08
5.   Chyll Will
I'll just read the comments when I come back home. I'm hanging out with Uncle Woodrow today to watch kung-fu and Monty Python, with an occasional shot of Nick and Cartoon Network. My plan is that if I slip into dementia, it will help me deal with the perception that this team is GOY...
2007-05-27 09:18:02
6.   williamnyy23
The Yankees are OUT of the race. Now, it is certainly possible that they could get back into it. To do that, however, they need to have a torrid June. In the meantime, it is going to be hard to enjoy many of these upcoming games. Unfortunately, when you are this far behind, winning one game is like a drop in the bucket. Until the water level really starts to rise, the Yankees are pretty much in the same boat as the rest of the league's dregs...at the bottom looking up.
2007-05-27 09:25:15
7.   vockins
4 Pretty much. On paper, this game is as good as over. They don't play the games on paper, that's the beauty of baseball, blah, blah, blah, but all I can hope for today is that the Angels went out and got completely wasted last night.
2007-05-27 09:48:53
8.   yankz
I feel really bad for Jeter, Posada, Pettitte, Mo, and A-Rod. Jeter and Posada because they're playing out of their skulls and the postseason is all they know. Pettitte, because he deserves it and it would be great to see him in a Game 2. Mo has sucked most of this year, but come on, it's Mo. But most of all for A-rod: The dude has a monster year but can't even make the playoffs? Texas all over again. Guy couldn't buy a break, and he has all the money in the world.
2007-05-27 10:09:22
9.   seamus
2 confidence is hard to come by right now. nevertheless, there is no point in not believing that the corner is there to be turned.

i hope we see the good moose today.

2007-05-27 10:13:43
10.   Mattpat11
Well, here we go.
2007-05-27 10:14:21
11.   Mattpat11
9 The corner was there three weeks ago. We missed the turn.
2007-05-27 10:15:24
12.   seamus
11 stop with the fatalism. noone knows where the corner is (or if there is one) until the end of the year.
2007-05-27 10:17:55
13.   Yankees Brasil
Struck out the side..
2007-05-27 10:18:02
14.   seamus
that is the moose i like!
2007-05-27 10:19:03
15.   seamus
was that last pitch a strike? I felt that the first batter helped him by swinging at a ball. When Moose is effective he gets batters to swing at those by setting them up. Hopefully he maintains his balance and control.
2007-05-27 10:19:55
16.   yankz
Moose K's the side! Hope?
2007-05-27 10:21:05
17.   Mattpat11
{12] Blind optimism is much more fun, I presume.
2007-05-27 10:21:58
18.   Mattpat11
15 Chest high right up the middle
2007-05-27 10:22:22
19.   JL25and3
Melky batting leadoff - now there's a way to recharge an offense.

When there's a fast guy batting ninth, they say it's like having a second leadoff hitter. With Melky at leadoff, it's like having a second ninth hitter.

2007-05-27 10:23:53
20.   Mattpat11
19 We have about 4 ninth hitters on the team.
2007-05-27 10:24:00
21.   seamus
18 thanks.
2007-05-27 10:26:38
22.   manila boy
17 "Blind optimism is much more fun, I presume."

Just as much fun as blind pessimism.

2007-05-27 10:28:41
23.   Mattpat11
22 We're five games under and 11 games back on May 27. Our first baseman, second baseman, and right fielder are various degrees of useless. What is blind about that?
2007-05-27 10:29:30
24.   yankz
Moose on fire.
2007-05-27 10:31:09
25.   Mattpat11
The Yankees are bitching to the commissioner?

What the hell do they expect him to do?

Bud is useless on things he has control over. He can't do anything here.

2007-05-27 10:32:03
26.   seamus
moose is losing it. they hit that ball.
2007-05-27 10:32:51
27.   yankz
Cano has been the Yanks' 2nd best hitter lately, after Arod, in terms of OPS. Check River Ave Blues.
2007-05-27 10:33:53
28.   seamus
23 we can agree to disagree on this point and shut up?
2007-05-27 10:34:23
29.   claybeez
23 Everyone knows you're views. You don't need to overtake the thread with your redundancy. Say it and allow others to express their optimism if they feel like it. Stop hijacking the game threads. I'm sick of it. There's really no need for you to respond to every post that voices some optimism. It's not your job.

The Yanks do have a number of issues. You're not the only one aware of that. Why not respect that not everyone who sees it feels the need to express their concerns as repeated pessimism.

2007-05-27 10:34:38
30.   Mattpat11
28 You're right. The Yankees are playing well. I'm making it up.

Whatever. I'm gonna go read.

2007-05-27 10:35:16
31.   claybeez
29 *your
2007-05-27 10:35:43
32.   JeremyM
Nothing would make me happier today than see Moose throw a good game. Well, that and some runs to go with it!
2007-05-27 10:36:53
33.   Yankees Brasil
Good job Nieves!
2007-05-27 10:37:45
34.   claybeez
Moose is looking good so far. Maybe his issues have had to do with building arm strength. Time will tell, but I sure hope so.
2007-05-27 10:38:01
35.   JL25and3
30 Come on, Mattpat, that's not what they're saying, and that's unnecessary.
2007-05-27 10:38:04
36.   seamus
good to see posada throw someone out. He hasn't been effective at that this year. or it doesn't seem that way, anyhow.
2007-05-27 10:38:25
37.   seamus
36 oops. forgot nieves was behind the plate!
2007-05-27 10:39:02
38.   RIYank
Hey folks!

Well, this is as good a day as any to begin winning, huh? Moose looks really good -- you can tell he's got intensity, taking this game seriously. Money game.

Can we hit today, though? With Melky and Nieves? Might need a long ball or two...

2007-05-27 10:39:09
39.   Yankees Brasil
37 Still good to see him throw someone out!
2007-05-27 10:39:41
40.   seamus
38 i found longball on the menu. I'm ordering it. Hopefully the kitchen isn't out of spinach.
2007-05-27 10:39:57
41.   RIYank
Robbie rapped it. Bad result, but not a bad sign.

Today's not the day for signage, though. Win any way possible.

2007-05-27 10:40:06
42.   seamus
39 agreed. one less pitch for moose to throw, if nothing else.
2007-05-27 10:40:33
43.   RIYank
40 Excellent, good choice.
(Let's hope the chef doesn't substitute Pasta Divingjeter.)
2007-05-27 10:40:37
44.   yankz
Cano's definitely coming around.
2007-05-27 10:41:07
45.   seamus
41 that kind of hurt. that "sign, sign, everywhere a sign" song popped into my head right after reading that. I hope I can get that out and soon!
2007-05-27 10:41:45
46.   seamus
43 haha! does that have anchovies on it? yuk!
2007-05-27 10:41:56
47.   JeremyM
Nieves is 4 for 8 against the stolen base this year, although one of those was a guy oversliding the bag if I remember right. Still, not bad.
2007-05-27 10:41:57
48.   RIYank
Three base runners without a hit. Must... cash... in...
2007-05-27 10:43:17
49.   yankz
You cannot bat Mink, Nieves, and Cabrera back-to-back-to-back. This is why Phelps is on the team.
2007-05-27 10:43:27
50.   RIYank
Man, our 8, 9, 1 line-up sequence is brutal today.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-05-27 10:43:42
51.   Yankees Brasil
Its time for Nieves 1st HR..
2007-05-27 10:43:45
52.   RIYank
49 50 Exactly.
2007-05-27 10:44:30
53.   JeremyM
49 I agree.
2007-05-27 10:45:31
54.   seamus
49 50 gotta agree. our bench isn't the strongest. though, cabrera has showed signs (earlier post about this not being a day for signs aside) of breaking out.
2007-05-27 10:46:52
55.   RIYank
I had perfect confidence in Wil.
2007-05-27 10:47:23
56.   nyyfan22
Fuck yeah.
2007-05-27 10:47:28
57.   claybeez
Way to go, Wil!
2007-05-27 10:47:39
58.   yankz
Yeah!

Who else thought "Just stay at 1st, Wil, even if it rolls to the wall!!!"

2007-05-27 10:47:42
59.   RIYank
Wow, standing O. And I don't think it's sarcastic! (Maybe it's because he didn't try to stretch it to a double!)

I gotta go, banterers. I gave you the lead, now win this thing!

2007-05-27 10:47:50
60.   seamus
unreal! nieves gets the rbi single and doesn't make out running to second! unreal!

(i overuse the !. sorry)

2007-05-27 10:47:51
61.   Yankees Brasil
Good job Nieves!
2007-05-27 10:48:27
62.   yankz
Good to see some smiles in the clubhouse.
2007-05-27 10:48:43
63.   RIYank
Like I was saying, our 9 and 1 holes are really strong today.

But now I do have to go, dammit.

2007-05-27 10:48:48
64.   claybeez
Yeah, Melky!
2007-05-27 10:49:15
65.   yankz
OK, Captain Clutch, RISP 2 outs. You know what to do.
2007-05-27 10:49:38
66.   seamus
our criticizing the 8-9-1 hitters was some sort of reverse curse?
2007-05-27 10:49:47
67.   bartap74
This is actually the first time all season that Nieves has run the bases. It' nearly June - amazing. That one hit aside, I really think it's time Cashman addressed the BUC situation. Nieves is being out-hit by most of the NL pitchers.
2007-05-27 10:50:50
68.   seamus
67 but he is on a roll! /sarcasm

honestly, I agree that we could use a beter BUC. But I don't thnk it is anything close to being our problem.

2007-05-27 10:51:15
69.   yankz
67 I believe he's reached on HBP, FC, etc.
2007-05-27 10:51:51
70.   JeremyM
67 Actually, he reached on a fielder's choice or error once:) He did run them on his first single, of course, but not for long.
2007-05-27 10:52:35
71.   nyyfan22
Did you all catch Pete Abe's article on Giambi? Check it out: http://tinyurl.com/3cer55
2007-05-27 10:57:27
72.   Max Nomad
Anyone have the video links to Torre cussing out the umps?
2007-05-27 10:58:25
73.   JeremyM
71 Pete better be careful, Hancock's dad will probably sue him for slander after that little blurb in the article.
2007-05-27 11:08:29
74.   seamus
as good as he has looked, moose os at 55 pitches. I hope can be a bit more efficient and remain effective.
2007-05-27 11:11:13
75.   Mattpat11
35 I want nothing more than for the Yankees to play well and win it all. I have very little life, and they take up a huge part of it.

But at the same time, the Yankees are in really, really bad shape right now. They have very little chance of having a successful season this year. For that to happen, not only is everything going to have to break our way healthwise this year, but the Yankees are going to have to start playing ridiculous baseball RIGHT NOW. (Frankly, we had to do it three weeks ago)

Trudging along at this pace isn't going to cut it. Sitting patiently and waiting for the Pirates to come into town is not going to cut it. We have 11 games coming up counting today against LAA, TOR, Boston and Chicago. We have to win nine. Not eight. not seven. Not four. We have to, at some point this year, sweep Boston.

But even if they do that, the Yankees have sucked to the point where their season is no longer in their hands. If Boston even plays at a normal pace for a first place team, we will never catch them. The Yankees have to pull their heads out of their asses AND pray Boston falls apart.

People here find that negative. Apparently this blog is for saying "Come on Johnny, get a hit!" and "I'm sure this will be the day the Yankees get going (I mean it this time!)
No one wants me here. I'm not going to pretend the season is in any kind of good shape or that we're a win away from making it one. No one wants me here and I don't see any reason to stay.

2007-05-27 11:11:15
76.   Yankees Brasil
Good inning for moose.. 8 pitches..
2007-05-27 11:13:18
77.   seamus
moose had an efficient inning. he really needed that. he finished the inning with 60 pitches which is great.
2007-05-27 11:13:54
78.   seamus
76 yeah, i see that 77 is redundan of 76.

Nice hit Cano!

2007-05-27 11:15:22
79.   seamus
abreu has been swinging a bit better. he still has a bit to go. and i agree that we need him to break out and stop just showing signs of breaking out.
2007-05-27 11:17:03
80.   Yankees Brasil
79 Agreed.
2007-05-27 11:18:18
81.   seamus
lol! Minky completely reverses the bad call jinx.
2007-05-27 11:18:47
82.   Yankees Brasil
Comon Nieves!!
2007-05-27 11:19:19
83.   JeremyM
Dude, Nieves is freaking me out here!
2007-05-27 11:19:52
84.   seamus
Minky's fake out reminded me of the whole flop thing in basketball. someone mentioned that the NBA should make it a foul to fake a flop. While that would lead to a lot of controversial calls it would help with the bs you see.

holy stinking hot Nieves!

2007-05-27 11:20:46
85.   Yankees Brasil
Somebody's been practicing lately..
2007-05-27 11:22:01
86.   JeremyM
84 If the NBA would change the charge rule, the flop would go away. Your feet should have to at least be planted for a second before it's a charge. Yesterday, Ginobli (who is a flopper himself) was charged with an offensive foul and the guys feet were still moving when he was hit. It's ridiculous.
2007-05-27 11:22:15
87.   seamus
damn that sucked. now we have the junky part of the order starting next inning.
2007-05-27 11:22:36
88.   Max Nomad
84 (see football, European)

Still no one who has the YouTube link to Torre's f-bomb display from back in the day? I saw it here on the Banter, but can't find it on the search...

2007-05-27 11:24:02
89.   seamus
86 that would help in certain instances, but you also see a lot of flops when fighting for boards and loose balls. The whole flop thing (as well as the leniency on travels) is annoying to watch. WHile we're at it, maybe make it a technical to foul the other team on two consecutive offensives possessions in less than 5 seconds each in the last two minutes of the game.
2007-05-27 11:24:40
90.   seamus
88 i remember watching it but i bet if you check the thread around the time he was suspended it was around then.
2007-05-27 11:26:26
91.   seamus
ok. sorry to hijack into nba talk. moose had two tough hits there. at least the one didn't break one o fhis bones.
2007-05-27 11:26:39
92.   Yankees Brasil
Oh god..here they come..
2007-05-27 11:27:45
93.   seamus
nice DP! moose has only thrown 5 pitches and given up two hits and a DP. one more moose. one more.
2007-05-27 11:30:48
94.   Yankees Brasil
Damnit
2007-05-27 11:32:00
95.   seamus
uh oh. moose is getting hit solid now.
2007-05-27 11:32:07
96.   yankz
Man, it's the 5th inning.
2007-05-27 11:35:03
97.   OldYanksFan
Just got in. Things looking pretty good so far.
29 Thank you for speaking up. 'Highjacking' was a very appropriate word.
Oops... shit. Halo's get one.
75 The problem is not that you are negative. The rub is you are repetitive, repetitive, repetitive, repetitive, repetitive, repetitive, repetitive, repetitive,
repetitive,
repetitive,
repetitive,
repetitive,
repetitive,
and unbelieveable repetative.
We heard you.
Enough old news until tomorrow. OK?
2007-05-27 11:35:19
98.   nyyfan22
75 Matt - I don't think anyone here doesn't want you here.

Personally, I like to follow along with the banter while watching (or listening) to the Yanks for 2 reasons... to heighten my knowledge of what's going on, and to have some fun in addition to watching.

Baseball is not life or death. We're all fans and therefore we're not happy concerning the Yanks and their performance in 07 thus far. And yes, even though I tend to look on the bright side, I still open the paper and see the standings everyday and think 'fuuuuuuuck'. But the Yanks are still my team. I'm not gonna run off to a winning team just cause the Yanks probably won't win the division.

Sometimes it's better to acknowledge the problems that have occurred, then move on. Yeah, in life we have to fix our mistakes of get ready for em again... but I know personally there's nothing I can do to make this team any better. The performance of the team is out of my hands. So what's a fan to do? Either focus on the good things looking forward, and accept the lot they're in.. or point out all the bad shite that's happened (and continues to happen) and get more upset. I choose the former.

I'm guessing that that's the vibe you're feeling here.

2007-05-27 11:35:55
99.   seamus
crucial K. Moose looks good overall. I was starting to worry that as someone noted early, maybe Moose's issues stem with arm strength, having missed a chunk of time at a critical moment early in the season.
2007-05-27 11:36:24
100.   Yankees Brasil
Good job Moose!
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-05-27 11:38:53
101.   yankz
Captain, all of a sudden, has gone a little cold. What is that, 0 for his last 8?
2007-05-27 11:41:30
102.   seamus
that was too damn easy. lackey's pitch count is sickenly low.
2007-05-27 11:43:33
103.   yankz
Did the sound on mlb.tv stop working for anyone else?
2007-05-27 11:43:55
104.   seamus
cano kicked ass in complete silence! anyone else lose their mlbtv audio?
2007-05-27 11:44:17
105.   seamus
103 ok, not just me. i hate that mlbtv craps out in weird ways some days.
2007-05-27 11:44:33
106.   nyyfan22
103 Yep.
2007-05-27 11:44:44
107.   seamus
and oh crap. i am totally starting at matsui's wrist on that one.
2007-05-27 11:45:04
108.   seamus
103 my audio is back.
2007-05-27 11:45:41
109.   yankz
Never mind.
2007-05-27 11:46:06
110.   Yankees Brasil
Great inning for Moose, 6 pitches!
2007-05-27 11:46:06
111.   yankz
6 pitches! Hell yes.
2007-05-27 11:46:40
112.   yankz
I am so incredibly tired of that Dick's commercial. WTF happened to Pac-Man?
2007-05-27 11:50:08
113.   seamus
112 that commercial makes we wonder where the diversity is.
2007-05-27 11:51:44
114.   randym77
88 The reason you can't find that Torre video any more is that the copyright police removed it.

It was here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LNzW2bixCA&NR=1

2007-05-27 11:54:59
115.   yankz
2-1 game? I want Bruney in there late.
2007-05-27 11:57:26
116.   Yankees Brasil
115 Let's hope Joe is thinking that
2007-05-27 11:58:03
117.   yankz
116 Proctor and Myers were warming up, so I guess not.
2007-05-27 11:58:39
118.   Yankees Brasil
117 Maybe Proctor to finish this inning, if Moose can't
2007-05-27 11:59:11
119.   nyyfan22
114 So why the hell does that one get yanked so quickly, yet there's a hundred other YES Network clips on youtube? I don't get that.

MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSE!

2007-05-27 11:59:22
120.   yankz
What?! 95 pitches, cruising, and you yank him?
2007-05-27 12:01:47
121.   yankz
119 Because YouTube, run by Google, is an idiot. Mark Cuban has blogged about this issue several times.
2007-05-27 12:02:08
122.   Yankees Brasil
120 He had just walked a batter.. and he might not be 100% yet, arm strenght wise
2007-05-27 12:02:18
123.   Yankees Brasil
120 He had just walked a batter.. and he might not be 100% yet, arm strenght wise
2007-05-27 12:02:22
124.   nick
ok, just checking in: as best as I can reconstruct things from the espn play-by-play summary, Lackey has been pitching inside, throwing at our big studs Bobby and Minky, only to be punished ruthlessly by Will Nieves. this seems highly implausible. please advise....
2007-05-27 12:02:34
125.   seamus
119 probably someone asked. maybe torre heard about it, or one of his agents or whatever. and maybe they didn't want it up.
2007-05-27 12:03:19
126.   seamus
124 you missed that Minky completely faked being hit.
2007-05-27 12:03:53
127.   thelarmis
and so it begins...
2007-05-27 12:04:39
128.   yankz
Just walk him, set up the DP.
2007-05-27 12:06:46
129.   yankz
I think Moose, who had struck out the leadoff guy, could've done this.
2007-05-27 12:07:13
130.   3rd gen yankee fan
anyone else having probs with mlb radio?
2007-05-27 12:07:35
131.   Yankees Brasil
129 Maybe, but we will never know..
2007-05-27 12:11:37
132.   seamus
this is heart attack time.
2007-05-27 12:12:38
133.   williamnyy23
123 Moose was pitching well and just missed on the 3-2 pitch. Considering the state of the team and the bullpen, Mussina is your best chance to win. Torre simply doesn't have the imagination to consider anything beyong bringing in Proctor at the first sign of trouble. Of course, Kendrick happens to be a great fastball hitter, so the matchup seemed all wrong for the Yankees. Now, the team is behind again with little hope of coming back. I'm sure NoMaas is getting another sheep ready.
2007-05-27 12:13:04
134.   yankz
Hurry up, Proctor, my clothes are going out of style!
2007-05-27 12:13:07
135.   mehmattski
It's fine, Farnsworth was just going to blow the game anyway.
2007-05-27 12:13:10
136.   Zack
Jesus Proctor, you suck
2007-05-27 12:13:13
137.   thelarmis
and there ya have it...
2007-05-27 12:13:26
138.   seamus
gotta give credit to the hitter. that was a phenomenal at bat.
2007-05-27 12:13:43
139.   Zack
Another wasted game. No offense, crappy managing, crappy BP...Sure is a fun season :)
2007-05-27 12:13:44
140.   yankz
131 Because Torre didn't give them the chance.
2007-05-27 12:14:09
141.   thelarmis
134 hilarious.
2007-05-27 12:14:16
142.   williamnyy23
And now Proctor is spent, which means this becomes a blowout.
2007-05-27 12:14:22
143.   Zack
I refuse to give credit to a backup hitting .250 against one of our supposidly top set up men...
2007-05-27 12:14:55
144.   Zack
PRoctor, you can't walk a guy hitting .128
2007-05-27 12:14:59
145.   3rd gen yankee fan
oh this is just fan-f'in-tastic.
2007-05-27 12:15:36
146.   williamnyy23
143 No credit is due...Proctor was awful and Torre was even worse for bringing him in.
2007-05-27 12:16:00
147.   3rd gen yankee fan
BOOOOOOOOOOO TORRE!!!!!!!!
2007-05-27 12:16:12
148.   thelarmis
are we having fun yet?
2007-05-27 12:16:14
149.   Zack
Well, thats it, I'm not paying attention to this anymore, it will just piss me off even more...adios, enjoy the long weekend!
2007-05-27 12:16:20
150.   mehmattski
Then again, if hitters not named Wil Nieves could get hits with runners in scoring position...
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-05-27 12:16:36
151.   yankz
141 Thank you!

As much as I'd like to pin this on Torre, Proctor really screwed the pooch.

2007-05-27 12:16:43
152.   williamnyy23
Oddly, Clemens coming on board might wind up being the nail in the Yankees coffin if it saved Joe's job.
2007-05-27 12:17:15
153.   seamus
143 the hitter fought off proctor's tough pitches and earned a walk. Sure, it is Proctor's fault. But is it Lackey's fault that Nieves hit him well today? Or does Nieves deserve credit? both maybe? fine, but he still deserves credit for getting done what needed to get done.
2007-05-27 12:17:50
154.   yankz
Great, Bruney for the 7th. Which probably means Worthless for the 8th.

Think the O can put up a 10 spot on the Angels' pen? Me neither.

2007-05-27 12:18:22
155.   williamnyy23
151 I just looked up the numbers and guess what Kendrick had done in his two previous ABs? Double to left. Of course, what did Kendrick do? Double to left. Small sample size? Coincidence? Perhaps. What bothers me most is Torre probably doesn't even know this.
2007-05-27 12:18:58
156.   Zack
153 Agreed. Of course he gets some credit, its just obliterated by the amount of blame that falls on Proctor
2007-05-27 12:19:12
157.   yankz
Forget rewards, Torre. Go for fucking wins.
2007-05-27 12:19:22
158.   williamnyy23
153 But Nieves HIT him. Lackey didn't walk him on pitches that weren't even close.
2007-05-27 12:19:30
159.   bartap74
151 Maybe if Proctor wasn't expected to pitch in every friggin game, like the rest of the bullpen, he'd be more effective. Seriously, no relief pitcher is going to remain effective with that kind of overuse. Torre's mismanagement of the bullpen is a big part of what's gone wrong this season.
2007-05-27 12:20:10
160.   williamnyy23
Wow...Torre gets a well deserved round of boos walking off the field.
2007-05-27 12:20:22
161.   Ramone
Just an observation: Torre's decision to replace a pitcher seems to be based 95% on how the existing pitcher is doing and 5% on who he has to replace the pitcher with.

When is Torre going to realize that this isn't 1996?

2007-05-27 12:20:41
162.   nyyfan22
Minky tried to shove that ball where the sun don't shine...
2007-05-27 12:22:38
163.   seamus
151 159 there is no question that there is plenty of blame to go around here. Torre and Proctor both deserve criticism. Particularly for that last walk. Proctor really screwed the pooch on that one.
2007-05-27 12:23:04
164.   nick
bullpen blowing a close game--that's so April 2007.....
2007-05-27 12:24:05
165.   seamus
we need another clutch fake HBP Minky!
2007-05-27 12:24:06
166.   Ramone
157 Exactly. Just like in April where, as the rest of the bullpen collapsed from overuse, Torre kept Mo on the bench to have him ready for nonexistent save situations.

It's about wins. Not saves. Or bolstering the stats of an individual player.

2007-05-27 12:24:11
167.   bartap74
My two favorite teams are the Yankees and whoever is playing the Mets. So far, neither is having a good year.
2007-05-27 12:27:04
168.   mehmattski
Viva a la Nieves!
2007-05-27 12:27:14
169.   yankz
He's totally afraid of Nieves.
2007-05-27 12:28:28
170.   randym77
Isn't Moose the one who always turns into a pumpkin at 100 pitches? Can't blame Torre for pulling him. I can blame him for using EDSP too often, though.
2007-05-27 12:28:31
171.   williamnyy23
When is Jeter going to step up and realize he has to hit .500?
2007-05-27 12:28:47
172.   yankz
If the Yanks don't make the playoffs, the media is going to be unbearable. I bet even Nickelodeon and Discovery will have documentaries about "The $200 million bust."
2007-05-27 12:30:11
173.   seamus
what sucks is that we need yet another hit...

glad jeter can still hit.

2007-05-27 12:30:12
174.   yankz
He's a machine.
2007-05-27 12:30:27
175.   williamnyy23
170 Even if you want to discount Mussina's effectiveness, I think brining in a fastball pitcher for Kendrick had a high chance to fail. At only 95 pitches, why not let Moose spin a few more curves before giving way to the bullpen? I'm sure Kay is right...Torre wanted to lift Moose with a good feeling. Unfortunately, this team is WELL beyond moral victories!
2007-05-27 12:30:34
176.   mehmattski
170 Protcor has pitched just twice since his 27 pitch 2 inning outing last Sunday. One of those outings was five pitches. I'd say that's normal use for a setup man. Certainly he's been overused in the past, but he's had plenty of rest recently.
2007-05-27 12:30:58
177.   yankz
Punish him for leaving in Lackey.
2007-05-27 12:32:44
178.   yankz
Good to hear the crowd, at least...
2007-05-27 12:32:49
179.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
I'm going to go out on a limb and predict a ground out from Groundzilla.
2007-05-27 12:33:17
180.   bartap74
By contrast, the Angels leave their starter in to work out of trouble and he does.
2007-05-27 12:33:23
181.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
Surprise surprise.
2007-05-27 12:33:28
182.   thelarmis
dishonor.
2007-05-27 12:33:38
183.   nick
%^%$^%%()$#(%@#$
2007-05-27 12:33:49
184.   yankz
OK, so an A-bomb and wait for Nieves...
2007-05-27 12:34:03
185.   seamus
damnit. this isn't making my sore throat and throbbing head feel any better.
2007-05-27 12:34:13
186.   williamnyy23
Hmmm...the Angels leave Lackey in and he gets the job done. I guess there might be something to this leaving the starter in philosophy?
2007-05-27 12:34:49
187.   Ramone
Interesting that the Angels didn't pull Lackey to give him a good feeling. I guess they cared more about giving themselves the best opportunity to win.
2007-05-27 12:35:37
188.   nyyfan22
I hate it when you feel like a bomb is the only way to win.

History shows us that you'll lose more than 50% of games not won. I know it's hard to accept, fellas, but it's mostly true.

2007-05-27 12:35:42
189.   nick
the Proctor move was questionable, rather than out-&-out stupid, given Moose's recent tendencies, no? and Bruney's wilder than he is, normally, so going Proctor w/men on, then Bruney for the 8th made sense...yeah, Joe is not doing a good job, but this year feels doomed: we just can't buy a close game....
2007-05-27 12:35:43
190.   yankz
It kills me to see Torre booed. I like the man. What kills me more is knowing he deserves it.
2007-05-27 12:36:00
191.   weeping for brunnhilde
Yet another weak-ass grounder from a lefty trying to pull the outside pitch.

This team needs a hitting coach, I'm sorry.

I've had enough.

2007-05-27 12:36:46
192.   yankz
188 I don't understand that %. Don't you lose 100% of games not won?
2007-05-27 12:39:07
193.   3rd gen yankee fan
192 He's been possessed by the spirit of Yogi.
2007-05-27 12:39:47
194.   yankz
193 Ah. Thanks.
2007-05-27 12:40:23
195.   yankz
Assuming they don't pick up Abreu's option, who plays RF next year? A Matsui/Damon/Melky OF sounds pretty awful.
2007-05-27 12:41:09
196.   seamus
195 i think that will depend on how abreu plays out the rest of the year.
2007-05-27 12:41:26
197.   yankz
Everyone is scared of Nieves.
2007-05-27 12:41:56
198.   yankz
196 Well, I was imagining a hypothetical world where he continues to suck.
2007-05-27 12:42:19
199.   williamnyy23
189 I think what makes the move worse is that matchup. Kendrick against Moose was the Yankees best bet. If managers have any influence at all, it's in close games. The Yankees horrendous record in these games has to say something about Torre's managing.

190 Agreed. Someone should have made a courageous decision during the off season.

2007-05-27 12:43:35
200.   bartap74
If only this was a video game and we could just hit the reset button on the season and start over.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-05-27 12:44:10
201.   williamnyy23
It sure sucks to see Bruney pitch so well AFTER the fact.
2007-05-27 12:45:12
202.   yankz
I had to mute it before I heard "It's about never giving up" again.
2007-05-27 12:46:02
203.   Ramone
You know, I hate being so negative. I've been a Yankee fan for 30+ years, and this team is, obviously, far from the worst that the Yanks have fielded during that time.

But I hate that there is a double standard between the expectations for the players and for coaches and management.

Over and over we are told that "this is a business" and "there is no place for sentimentality." No player, not even Mo, can expect a contract extension before the end of the final contract year. Bernie? Thanks for the memories, but no guaranteed contract.

Look, that's all well and good, but why am I then expected to support Torre for his successes 5-10 years ago? Torre is clearly making this team worse, not better, with his panicky mis-management. Why do feel like a traitor for pointing it out?

2007-05-27 12:46:36
204.   Just fair
My wife just got me "Birth of a Dynasty" for my b-day. It's real tough to read while watching this game. But hey, K-Rod is going to have to blow one eventually, right? Right.
2007-05-27 12:47:54
205.   williamnyy23
With another loss all but in the books, I return to a comment I made before the series. Going in, I thought changes would definitely be made if the Yankees were swept. Well...here's what I would do:

1) Fire Kevin Long (fair? probably not, but as Cashman said earlier in the year, perception sometimes overtakes reality).

2) Vizcaino is released; Britton recalled.

3) Cabrera is demoted; The hottest OF'er in the minors is recalled.

2007-05-27 12:48:08
206.   nick
203 a very good point, and not one I've heard made that way before...
2007-05-27 12:48:56
207.   yankz
Arod was trying to make it 4-3. I can't blame him.
2007-05-27 12:49:48
208.   Mattpat11
Well, I've decided to make a Clemens/Cher like return and comment on this game.

Its gone poorly. I hope that wasn't too negative.

2007-05-27 12:49:53
209.   williamnyy23
203 That's exactly how I feel. I DON'T WANT to be negative, but what else can you be watching this team. Right now, I honestly feel Joe Torre is atop he list of things hurting this team. Why does he deserve to be a sacred cow?
2007-05-27 12:50:20
210.   yankz
The "Can't trade Giambi because you can't make up his offense" argument only works if he's providing offense.
2007-05-27 12:50:48
211.   Mattpat11
205 Who is the hottest outfielder on the minors?
2007-05-27 12:51:07
212.   yankz
That was a joke. I'm starving, see you all later.
2007-05-27 12:51:11
213.   williamnyy23
Lackey gets ANOTHER inning...that's how you win ball games. Torre's poor decision looks even worse in comparison to the Angels' choice to let their starter decide his fate.
2007-05-27 12:52:57
214.   williamnyy23
211 I don't know...the most important part of the transaction is shipping Melky out. It sends a message and removes a player from the roster who can't hit.
2007-05-27 12:52:59
215.   nick
having to see Farns today is the absolute definition of adding insult to injury....
2007-05-27 12:53:15
216.   Mattpat11
Oh Jesus. Is there no one else to put in?
2007-05-27 12:53:34
217.   williamnyy23
Here's another move...hope Farnsworth K's the side and then call the Phillies immediately.
2007-05-27 12:53:37
218.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
Prediction: we score 2 in the bottom of the 9th of Shields/K-rod, but lose by one, b/c Fanswacker gives up a bomb in 3 . . . 2 . . . 1 . . .
2007-05-27 12:54:29
219.   seamus
203 is this any different than how management manages any situation? I'm just thinking about how not making or losing Super Bowls is always the QB's fault, but not necessarily management's fault for not getting the right players. Or how it is ARod's fault he earns all that money, and not texas' ownership. Or how it is ok for owners to pocket millions but an overpaid player is a bum. etc...
2007-05-27 12:54:52
220.   williamnyy23
215 But this is where he excels...no pressure...chance to win the game almost nil. Unlike "good" relievers, Farns is exactly the guy to bring in when the game is pretty much over.
2007-05-27 12:55:12
221.   nick
214 actually, the way Melky hit last year, combined with his youth, STRONGLY suggests he's a real prospect: I'd disable Damon and play Melky every day for a month--this backup shit is ruining his development. and it's not like we're in a pennant race or something...
2007-05-27 12:55:13
222.   Mattpat11
The worst thing that can happen is Farnsworth does well and earns himself another three weeks of immunity.
2007-05-27 12:55:25
223.   seamus
214 or it sends a message that the Yankees will over-react to a slump and ship off talent before giving it a chance.
2007-05-27 12:56:28
224.   nick
217 I hope we're "showcasing" the Farz...
2007-05-27 12:56:49
225.   bartap74
216 I wonder if Wade Boggs and his fabled knuckleball are available?
2007-05-27 12:57:10
226.   seamus
i thought that he was safe.
2007-05-27 12:57:37
227.   seamus
he may have been out looking at that replay, but hard to tell.
2007-05-27 12:57:47
228.   3rd gen yankee fan
Nice one for Wil.
2007-05-27 12:58:28
229.   3rd gen yankee fan
221 Agreed.
2007-05-27 12:59:08
230.   Mattpat11
TRADE HIM IMMEDIATELY
2007-05-27 13:00:59
231.   williamnyy23
221 Melky was a league average hitter last year and most scouts seem to think he is a non-prospect. If he plays a whole month, the Yankees are in trouble.
2007-05-27 13:01:50
232.   seamus
231 link to these "most scouts"?
2007-05-27 13:02:33
233.   nick
c'mon boys-
2007-05-27 13:02:45
234.   williamnyy23
221 Also, Melky has over 140 PAs...nearly as much as Damon. The part-time role cant be used as an excuse.
2007-05-27 13:03:14
235.   williamnyy23
232 After the game, I'll find links.
2007-05-27 13:03:44
236.   seamus
235 that is fair!
2007-05-27 13:03:56
237.   seamus
good job hip hip!
2007-05-27 13:05:07
238.   bartap74
Nice to see some signs of life. Let's keep it up!
2007-05-27 13:05:32
239.   seamus
235 236 i should change my name to "seamus!"
2007-05-27 13:06:17
240.   seamus
239 ugh. i meant 236 237
2007-05-27 13:06:21
241.   Eirias
K-Rod is on my fantasy team, but I would gladly take the BS for a win here.
2007-05-27 13:08:38
242.   Mattpat11
Melky with his Babe Ruth swing.
2007-05-27 13:09:03
243.   nick
Jorge is tying run--no pinch runner?
2007-05-27 13:09:33
244.   Mattpat11
Why do I feel like this is all a big tease?
2007-05-27 13:09:38
245.   seamus
243 i wouldn't. maybe if he was the winning run.
2007-05-27 13:09:49
246.   Mattpat11
243 Irrelevant now.
2007-05-27 13:10:07
247.   williamnyy23
You need to PR run here I think.
2007-05-27 13:10:17
248.   williamnyy23
You need to PR run here I think.
2007-05-27 13:10:21
249.   yankz
RISP, 2 outs. Who would you rather have up?
2007-05-27 13:10:37
250.   williamnyy23
248 Scratch that...Posada went to 3rd.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2007-05-27 13:10:39
251.   Mattpat11
247 With the runner on third?
2007-05-27 13:11:45
252.   Mattpat11
That was his pitch.
2007-05-27 13:13:39
253.   Mattpat11
Thought he missed that there.
2007-05-27 13:13:52
254.   Mattpat11
Vlad is terrifying.
2007-05-27 13:15:07
255.   Mattpat11
Am I alone?
2007-05-27 13:15:16
256.   claybeez
Jete is battling.
2007-05-27 13:15:52
257.   Mattpat11
256 Needs to do more than battle.
2007-05-27 13:16:39
258.   Mattpat11
And the Yankees suck away another one.

But in a positive way.

2007-05-27 13:16:50
259.   claybeez
257 Ugh!
2007-05-27 13:17:00
260.   3rd gen yankee fan
255 just glues to the tv.
2007-05-27 13:17:18
261.   yankz
Fucking A. I thought this was the one.
2007-05-27 13:17:21
262.   williamnyy23
Not even the Captain can save the sinking ship.

Not one Yankee on the top step?

I guess this is another low point. I really hope Torre doesn't use the "we didn't quit" speech.

2007-05-27 13:17:42
263.   seamus
damnit.

ok, i'm off to try and forget about another tough loss. i suggest that others do the same. it is too nice weekend.

2007-05-27 13:17:53
264.   Mattpat11
259 Sorry. Flying out and ending the game was good enough for me.

Wouldn't want to be negative.

2007-05-27 13:17:58
265.   3rd gen yankee fan
well, bye.
2007-05-27 13:18:12
266.   nick
what can you say?
2007-05-27 13:18:35
267.   randym77
So close. Sigh.

The flippin' Halos always do this to us.

2007-05-27 13:19:10
268.   williamnyy23
266 Merry Christmas, Happy New Year and Play Ball in 2008.
2007-05-27 13:19:29
269.   seamus
259 don't feed the troll.
2007-05-27 13:19:46
270.   JeremyM
264 Dude, shut up. Get over yourself.
2007-05-27 13:20:07
271.   yankz
It seems like lately, Jeter always looks good, even when he's lining out. Probably mostly my bias, but he's definitely an elite hitter in the game right now.

Losing blows.

2007-05-27 13:20:45
272.   Mattpat11
In case anyone was wondering, the big 12 game stretch where the Yankees needed to play their bestest baseball?

4-8.

But I'm sure they just need some more time. We need to be patient.

2007-05-27 13:23:18
273.   williamnyy23
271 Jeter has actually gotten better. His AB was great, but he can't do it every time. Unfortunately, that seems to be what it will take for the Yankees to get a win.
2007-05-27 13:24:02
274.   williamnyy23
271 I actually wonder how Jeter will handle this summer. Will he be able to maintain his performance in meaningless games? Or will he start giving away ABs?
2007-05-27 13:24:06
275.   Mattpat11
270 I'm being positive! It took the Yankees longer than usual to lose today! And they almost won today! In fact, I'm going to petition to the commissioner to readjust our record and add all our moral victories to the win column.

And if we just give them some time, I'm sure they'll figure it out eventually. Its only June after all.

2007-05-27 13:24:44
276.   claybeez
269 You're right. Ken needs to be hipped to this.
2007-05-27 13:25:06
277.   Mattpat11
274 Meaningless? Far too negative.
2007-05-27 13:27:55
278.   nick
272 Look, being negative is fine; what's a drag is insisting that the Yanks stinking out the joint proves you right--what's a drag is the bitter satisfaction some people seem take in the Yanks' sucking. Gloomy is fine; gloomy and smug is really a pain in the ass. Be as negative as you want. But don't use it to trash other people; don't insist that your negativity is the only possible mature realistic attitude. We all have our coping strategies to deal with this suckage.

Rant over.

2007-05-27 13:28:51
279.   Mattpat11
276 I honestly want to know what would be the positive, non "troll" way to react to the Yankees third straight loss, 13th for the month of may, 27th on the year, and likely the game that pushes them 12 games out of first.

Oh well?

2007-05-27 13:31:13
280.   williamnyy23
279 I dont think there is a positive way...one thing I'd note is the 2 or 3 posters who condescend to everyone with their "if you're not positive, you're ruing the banter" diatribe are not here now, so there's no need to push the whole negative/positive debate further.
2007-05-27 13:31:56
281.   yankz
279 You could start by not acting like you're better or smarter than anyone else.

274 Come on, it's the Captain. The Yanks could be mathematically eliminated and he'd want to play every day, trying to win.

2007-05-27 13:34:45
282.   williamnyy23
281 Perhaps...but Jeter is so much about winning...and winning big games. Will his internal intangible instincts kick-in when the team is out of it and battling Baltimore in a late-July slugfest? I don't know. I guess I only ask because I will be with the team regardless, and would love to at least root for Jeter to turn in another great season.
2007-05-27 13:38:10
283.   yankz
282 My faith in the team is waning. But not in Derek Jeter.
2007-05-27 13:39:42
284.   Mattpat11
278 I'm not getting any satisfaction out of the Yankees playing like this. I want them to play well. It pisses me off that they played like shit yet again today. I have no fun watching these games because as soon as they fall behind you know the game is over. And that pisses me off. It pisses me off to see the hideous moves by the management of the team fail day in and day out when a blind man could see it wasn't going to work out. But I watch them every day hoping a miracle hits. It never does. So I come to a blog I've enjoyed for several years to discuss the massive, massive problems that are facing my team and I am shouted down as being "too negative" "beating a dead horse" bringing up "old news (????)" and being repetitive.

What the hell is there to talk about with this team other than the fact that they've been a massive disaster and a huge embarrassment?

2007-05-27 13:42:30
285.   williamnyy23
Can Joe every say he made a mistake? Does he think he made a mistake? This whole "plan before the game" makes no sense! You can't simply go batter to batter without considering the game context.
2007-05-27 13:43:38
286.   Mattpat11
281 I'm not better than anyone. I'm the one that's "ruining the blog" by mentioning the record and the deficit.
2007-05-27 13:46:33
287.   williamnyy23
286 Don't sweat it...no one is ruining the blog by letting off steam. I have no problem with anyone expressing passion, even in ways that I disagree with it. If the team keeps playing this way, everyone's passion will be dead, which I submit will be the true definition of depressing.
2007-05-27 13:48:12
288.   yankz
Well, I turned to YouTube to cheer me up, and found this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hnf_-ApECkc

I've been reluctant to question this team's "fire" and "desire" just because we don't know what happens in the dugout/clubhouse. But now I think it's just true. Those teams had a passion that this one doesn't.

2007-05-27 13:48:37
289.   williamnyy23
Yikes...Moose talked to Flaherty and Stott...not exactly an endorsement of Gator.
2007-05-27 13:50:54
290.   williamnyy23
288 If you want to be positive, very few fans of very few teams will get the chance to live through and revel in a run like that one. Those teams were incredibly fun to watch and those memories can't be forfeited by Jose Vizcaino and Bobby Abreu.
2007-05-27 13:53:17
291.   Mattpat11
288 luis Vizcaino.

Jose contributed.

2007-05-27 13:54:57
292.   williamnyy23
288 Tino, Brosius, Knoblauch, O'Neill, Girardi...even guys like Straw. Not exactly the most talented group, but they were firey guys. I'm not sure how many of those guys are left.
2007-05-27 13:55:12
293.   nick
284 ok, but your negativity goes along with actively trashing/mocking optimism, as in 272; for a blog to work, people all have to actively try to get along--stubbornly defending your right to be negative is reasonable on one level, but if a number of people don't like it, it ain't gonna help the atmosphere.
2007-05-27 13:55:48
294.   Mattpat11
287 Apparently I "constantly remind people that the Yankees are playing poorly" Somehow the team does no do this.

I also "bring up old news"

Somehow the team losing is old news.

2007-05-27 13:56:59
295.   Mattpat11
293 People have yet to explain to me what there is to be optimistic about. They get annoyed when i call it blind optimism.
2007-05-27 13:59:15
296.   williamnyy23
288 One more thing...I want Bernie back. Period. Cashman has been worng on so many things this year...I don't care if it helps or not. If Bernie wants back in, I want him here making the same outs everyone else is.
2007-05-27 14:00:04
297.   Mattpat11
296 I agree.
2007-05-27 14:02:34
298.   Mattpat11
If the season is going to be a wash and the Yankees will lose every day anyway, they might as well lose everyday and let me see one of my favorite players.
2007-05-27 14:05:35
299.   nick
old Bernie made me so sad; it was actively painful to watch him--such a rapid, clear physical decline....
2007-05-27 14:08:47
300.   Mattpat11
Old Bernie is still more fun than shitty Abreu or the Stink.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2007-05-27 14:10:04
301.   weeping for brunnhilde
That was a great at-bat by Jeter, precisely the reason I was angry about his striking out looking twice in the ninth to end the game in the past week.

Both of those at-bats should have been like the one today. He did all he could.

As to Melky, I still believe in him.

And it's really no mystery to me why the team is loosing.

Go back and look at the tape and you'll notice that the team in general tries to pull that outside pitch way too often and it costs them.

Matsui did it with risp and grounded weakly to first and Melky did it earlier, I think also with risp.

If they'd both tried to hit those balls the other way, they'd have significantly increased their chances of success.

So frankly, I don't know what it takes to get hitters to stop trying to pull the outside pitch, but I'm fairly confident that they'd win a lot more if they could learn to do that.

From my observation, it's the major reason they're not hitting.

2007-05-27 14:14:40
302.   WeMissPaulie
I thought I'd never say this, but I now believe that the problem comes from the top down. Torre is a great manager for a certain type of player. But with these guys, we need a manager that motivates and inspires guys, one that hangs on the rails, and steals home. Sorry Joe. Got to hire Girardi.
2007-05-27 14:26:14
303.   JL25and3
302 I'm not sure what people see in Girardi. He seems like a good manager, but I think he's much better for a bunch of kids - last year's Marlins - than with a veteran, professional team. He certainly doesn't seem to be a firebrand, but more of a Showalter-type micromanager.

If they're going to change managers, I'm putting my money on Bowa.

2007-05-27 14:27:31
304.   JL25and3
To clarify that last post: I understand what people see in Girardi as a manager, I just don't think he's a good fit for this team, or the guy who's going to ignite them.
2007-05-27 15:43:15
305.   Ken Arneson
276 I think people are getting a little testy because of these unusual (for Yankees fans) circumstances. I'm inclined to cut people some slack.

However, for those of you who qualify in the "testy" category, I will point out that the Toaster Code of Conduct, newly updated, is currently on the "Hot from the Toaster" sidebar on the top of the page, and may be useful to help people remain friends in these trying times.

2007-05-27 16:16:14
306.   seamus
thanks Ken! It is appreciated.
2007-05-27 19:36:59
307.   manila boy
276 "I honestly want to know what would be the positive, non "troll" way to react to the Yankees third straight loss, 13th for the month of may, 27th on the year, and likely the game that pushes them 12 games out of first."

There may be no positive way, but there's no need to overload on the snide and snark, then doing it again and again and again. No one's asking you to be a Pollyanna, but there's no need to respond sharply to everyone who expresses a sentiment you don't share. And there's certainly no need for words like "shithead" and "asshole" and "fucked."

280 "...one thing I'd note is the 2 or 3 posters who condescend to everyone with their "if you're not positive, you're ruing the banter" diatribe are not here now..."

I happen to agree with those "2 or 3 posters who condescend" to remind other folks here, folks who haven't been around very long, that there's a difference between expressing criticism and disappointment and being smug. I don't have a problem with negativity or pessimism, but I am ticked off by insensitivity to the sensibilities of the other people, some of whom have already told you what they object to about your behavior. As a two-year lurker, I have come to respect many of the regulars here, and I am dismayed at how casually you dismiss their criticism of you.

2007-05-27 19:39:09
308.   manila boy
Oops, not 276 but 279.
2007-05-27 19:39:13
309.   Shaun P
Frustration mounts, and from reading some game recaps, I can see why. Damn. So close!

And Moose pitched a good game, too. They pitch and don't hit. They hit and don't pitch.

What really has me worried right now is that Cashman actually has a plan to get the Yanks back on top. Perfect its not (what is?), but the basic premise - rebuild through draft and development, stockpile great young players, supplement with young free agents - makes an awful lot of sense. A re-building/course correction, if you will, was an almost inevitable part of that plan.

However, if George turns back into the idiot "win at all costs" Boss of the 80s, that flushing noise we'll hear is almost certainly the first common-sense plan this franchise has had since Stick in the early 90s going down the drain. In which case, we'd all better get used to this frustrating awfulness, because if history is any guide, it will get a lot uglier before it gets any better.

What really sucks is that Boston has kind of gone through a year like this already - last year. They don't just have young, nearly-ready good pitching in the wings, they have some young, nearly-ready good position prospects too. The good position prospects the Yanks have are at least 2 years away. And sadly, there aren't many of 'em. At least not yet. That's why I hope coolheaded-ness prevails. Because the Yanks could be on the verge of something great, and I for one would gladly forego a couple of years of the Yanks not winning to get there.

I hope George can be persuaded to see things that way as well.

2007-05-27 20:04:11
310.   weeping for brunnhilde
309 I certainly hope you're right about the Master Plan, Shaun, but if so, how do you account for Clemens?

Seems to me that that's just the kind of retrograde desperate flailing around that'll make it harder for fans to accept a couple of years of rebuilding.

Because if now it's Clemens, a couple of years down the road it'll be, I don't know, say, Manny or Piazza to assume the DH duties from Giambi.

And who knows, maybe even a final go-'round for RJ in a couple?

2007-05-27 20:22:04
311.   manila boy
309 "That's why I hope coolheaded-ness prevails. Because the Yanks could be on the verge of something great, and I for one would gladly forego a couple of years of the Yanks not winning to get there."

Same here. I didn't think there was a need for an out-and-out rebuilding phase since the budget allows for significant free-agent signings, but the team has started so badly this year that that just may be the way to go. Plus, the prices of FAs went through the roof this offseason, which makes plugging holes a lot more expensive. But then, this may be actually have a benefit: the Yanks can at least get some value if they trade away a few of their still-productive vets (like Sheffield and Unit).

Yes, the team is "on the verge of something great" indeed, if the owner only has the patience to see it through. Is George the only one left who thinks you can buy a championship?

310 The Clemens signing doesn't strike me as desperate. It cost the team nothing but money: no young guys traded for fading vets. And it's just a one-year deal, so no long-term albatross contract. What's not to like? If the team still has the glimmer of a chance when he joins the rotation, then a run at the WC may still be forthcoming. And when Hughes comes back, even better.

Like all of you, I feel awful right now, but I haven't given up hope.

2007-05-27 20:36:07
312.   Mattpat11
307 I don't think I called any poster here a shithead or asshole. I called Josh Hancock and his father those things, and frankly, that's the nicest things I can think of to say about either one.
2007-05-27 20:41:53
313.   bbfan1
"It cost the team nothing but money"

And that's why most fans hate the yankees and red sox. No other organization can make that statement. Signing clemens cost almost as much as some organizations complete payroll, yet here it's "just money".

2007-05-27 20:43:05
314.   manila boy
312 I didn't say you called any posters "shithead" or "asshole." What I'm pointing out is that you think this kind of language is okay in a public community site like this. I have a problem with that.
2007-05-27 20:43:47
315.   bbfan1
"supplement with young free agents"

Abreu and damon were young free agents? Your comment has nothing to do with reality.

2007-05-27 21:29:40
316.   manila boy
313 Yes, that's one reason fans of other teams hate the Yanks and Sox, but it's an advantage they have over other teams, right? Wouldn't it be foolish not to use it wisely? I believe Theo said something of the sort this past offseason as a response to criticism for not chasing Abreu. And isn't the whopping posting fee for Matsuzaka "just money" as well? Wouldn't you say that it is looking like money well spent?

Clemens is a still-effective HOF pitcher, the Yanks will be on the hook for less than a year, and they didn't give up anyone to get him. Wouldn't Boston have made the same deal had they not been beaten to it?

315 They weren't, not when they were obtained (though they're playing like geriatrics right now). Besides, I said "significant" free agents, not necessarily young.

2007-05-27 21:47:36
317.   weeping for brunnhilde
311 What's not to like?

Well, I just think it's unseemly.

But then, I thought it was unseemly getting him the first time around. Same with Giambi and Arod, but at least those were long-term contracts.

I don't know, I'm old-fashioned; I don't like high turnover and I certainly don't like high turnover involving one big name after another.

It gets boring, imo.

2007-05-27 22:08:57
318.   manila boy
317 It does get boring, but I think it's one of the last few times the team will do it. When the farm starts being productive again, we should be seeing less and less of these hired guns.
2007-05-27 22:13:05
319.   yankz
I don't know. If all works out, the pitching will be solid for years to come. But does this lineup frighten anyone?

RF Ichiro (my guess for Abreu's replacemnt)
SS Jeter
LF Matsui
DH Giambi
3B Free Agent? (assuming Arod walks)
2B Cano
C Posada (assuming he's resigned)
CF Damon
1B Eric Duncan??

2007-05-27 22:17:46
320.   manila boy
Not too keen on Ichiro. And he'll want crazy money. How about Brett Gardner in CF?

And the team better hang on to Arod.

2007-05-27 22:35:44
321.   yankz
320 Yeah, I don't want him either, but from everything I read he won't be ready/that good.

Agreed on Arod, but at this point, could you blame him for jetting off to LA? Better weather, younger team.

2007-05-27 22:36:21
322.   yankz
321 The "he won't be ready" part refers to Gardner, the "don't want" part refers to Ichiro.
2007-05-27 23:30:09
323.   Chyll Will
Man, why does it seem like every time Ken posts his "Toaster Rules of Conduct" it's related to something we did? >;)

I ended up watching the game at Uncle Woodrow's and not acquiring dementia as planned, but I noted how complacent we had become concerning this team. We expected Proctor to blow up Mussina's good start and lose the game for us, and we anticipated the failed rally in the end, though we were satisfied with the fact that at least the went down fighting. Give Torre some credit in the end, the guys who came through were the guys you wanted in those situations, and Jeter's battle in the end was exciting, even on TV. At least he gave it a ride in the end, as opposed to looking at a called third strike. Exactly the person you wanted in that situation.

I was going to rant about how we seem to be whining too much lately, but it's really no use. I don't really expect us to become like typical Red Sox fans, bemoaning our fate as though it were a sacred rite of passage. I honestly feel bad for anyone who has emotionally invested themselves in this team so much that they have to release their pent-up frustrations on others in cyberspace or in a bar, or worse on their own family. I 'm discovering things about myself that need addressing in that regard, so forgive me if I sound like a raving lunatic from time to time, think about the alternative. People used to worry that I would blow up, and believe me I have plenty of reasons to do so in my lifetime, but I choose not to.

Are any of us dying of an incurable disease within the next year? Please tell me if you are, because I would like to pay my respects and say that I understand your frustration with not being able to see your team be competitive before it's all said and done.

If not, then take a deep breath and prioritize.

We can only hope that the people in charge make some sound decisions and then hope that those decisions pan out. But to blow up over something I have no control over is a habit I hope to fully break in my lifetime. I do believe it will replace the years I've lost for other reasons.

Meanwhile, relax, folks. It's a long season and unpleasant so far, but it's not over. If the Twins can come back and compete consistently, and Oakland, too, then the Yanks stand a very god chance of doing the same. If not, well the future looks bright enough, and patience is a fine life-skill. I hope to continue to provide a little laughter to ease the trauma and fend off the trolls and vultures that inevitably come. Honestly, I do care. And I hope others lurking about will sense that it's okay to express yourself, just be real to who you are and respect each other. G'night, all. >;)

(...zzzzz hmmm... maybe this is dementia zzzzz...)

2007-05-28 00:46:33
324.   manila boy
323 "Man, why does it seem like every time Ken posts his "Toaster Rules of Conduct" it's related to something we did? >;)"

Ha ha! Hey, you're right. We're such bad boys and girls. :)

Thanks for keeping things loose. You're a good clubhouse presence. There's definitely value in that!

2007-05-28 01:53:25
325.   BklynBmr
323 Chyll — If your blog is not up and running in the next 10 days, I'm gonna have to come over there...

Well said by 324 — thanks for the dash of reason. This joint needs it.

2007-05-28 07:19:44
326.   yankeefrank
I have a comment on Joe (and managers generally). I subscribe to the Baseball Prospectus theory that strategically and tactically, managers make very little differnce over the course of the season. Maybe somewhere between 3 and 6 games where the manager really influences the outcome with his strategic moves. On the other hand, his interpersonal skills are critical to the lifeblood of the team. How the manager relates to and motivates players makes a huge difference over the course of a season. It seems to me that Joe is somewhat "stale" in his player relationships and his ability to motivate and drive the team to success. Actually, I have had this feeling for two plus years. Thanks to Joe for all that he has done, but I do feel that a change in leadership is necessary for the welfare of the franchise. The team seems to need a spark, some fire and motivation, and right now Joe seems incapable of providing that kind of leadership.
2007-05-28 07:46:38
327.   seamus
326 I get your point and I think it is insightful. Don;'t you find it a bit contradictory though to say that a manager really only influences 3 to 6 games, but to conclude that joe's managerial style fails to spark the team? I think you meant to say that in-game managing influences only 3 to 6 games, but otherwise managers would seem to play a huge role on the success of their team. I don't mean to put words in your mouth but I would agree with that.
2007-05-28 07:59:12
328.   yankeefrank
Yes. You clarified what I meant by strategic and tactical. I equated those terms to in-game managing, but your phrase is much more precise than my expression of the managers value to his team in that regard. I listen to Joe after every game and it just seems as if he has lost his edge.
2007-05-28 08:10:27
329.   RIYank
I think changing managers would be very unlikely to make a positive difference, though probably it would make no difference.

Yesterday Joe said: "We've been bad early in other years, but not this late."
Compare that with the title of this thread. Joe is this year's Yogi! And you wouldn't fire Yogi Berra, right?

Losing close games is very draining, I must say. I still believe the Yankees will win more games starting now than the Red Sox will, but I no longer believe we have any realistic chance of catching them for the division.

2007-05-28 09:13:15
330.   weeping for brunnhilde
I'm convinced that changing managers is the only way to reconstruct the team, presuming we're looking for a youth movement.

I give Joe credit for sticking with Melky, but generally, he's not the guy I want developing younger players.

So as a long-term strategy to get younger, Joe has to go.

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