Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
The Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim
2007-05-25 11:03
by Cliff Corcoran
Note: The Bronx Banter blog has moved to

Just when the Yankees look like they might be putting things together, in come Hell's Angels, the one team that's confounded the Joe Torre-era Yankees consistently from year-to-year and is responsible for two of the team's three ALDS series losses.

The Angels were 6-4 against the Yanks last year, though the Bombers outscored the Halos 55 to 50, while the Yanks haven't won a season series from the Orange County set since 2003, when they were clearly out for revenge for the 2002 ALDS. Though some of the faces have changed, the Angels team that arrives in the Bronx tonight is the same as ever: good pitching, both in the rotation and the bullpen, and average hitting, with the latter being comprised largely of high-contact, high-batting-average hitters with weak on-base skills and modest power, but a lot of speed on the bases. Notable exceptions to this rule:

Vlad Guerrero: High contact and average, yes, but he also leads the team in walks and slugs with the best in the league. It also appears that his base stealing has finally come to a stop as he's 1 for 2 on the paths thus far this year. Of course, Guerrero's so good and so unique in his approach, that he'd be an outlier in any lineup.

Mike Napoli: The Angels are hesitant to commit to him, probably because he's a low-average slugger who walks a lot and strikes out even more. There are a lot of major league teams that would happy with that from their catcher.

Gary Matthews Jr.: High average, low OBP, modest slugging, speed, yes, yes, yes, yes, but Gary strikes out a lot. Setting runner-up Napoli aside, Matthews has 11 more Ks than third-place finisher Erick Aybar (who was brutal at the plate and on the bases while filling in for the injured Howie Kendrick).

Shea Hillenbrand: Can't run and isn't hitting for average either this year. He does have a very impressive two walks in 147 plate appearances, however.

Chone Figgins: Figgins is the prototypical Angels player, versatile, pesky, but he missed April with a pair of broken fingers on his right hand and has hit like a player coming back from a hand injury thus far in may (.133/.198/.187). It's a bummer to see a burner like Figgins lacking fuel, but I'm sure the Yankees won't mind his disappearing act this weekend. Nor will my wife, who pronounces his first name phonetically and his last name "Friggins."

The Yanks get their second look at young Jered Weaver tonight. Weaver beat them in Anaheim last August, striking out eight in six innings and allowing just one run on three hits, actually one run on one hit, a solo homer by . . . Craig Wilson? Well that's not going to help tonight. The only positive for the Yanks from that August game was that Weaver walked three and needed 104 pitches to get through those six innings, not that getting to the Angels' bullpen has ever done an offense any good, at least not while Mike Scioscia's been the Halos manager.

Clay Aiken's evil twin, Tyler Clippard, makes his Yankee Stadium debut tonight. He was nails against the Mets last weekend, posing a line that was just two strikeouts shy of matching Weaver's line against the Yanks last August. Clippard was the first of the five Yankee starters to make their major league debuts this season that didn't look like he was going to plotz in the first inning. After the game, Clippard said he wasn't as nervous as he expected he'd be, and I believe him. Here's hoping things don't change now that Clippard's in the Clipper's house. Me, I can't wait to see Clipp stomping around on the mound and shooting smoke out of his already famously prominent ears as he mows down the Halos with those nasty curves and disappearing changeups. (Incidentally, Rook, Don Sutton has a solution to that ear problem.)

Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim

2006 Record: 89-73 (.549)
2006 Pythagorean Record: 84-78 (.519)

Manager: Mike Scioscia
General Manager: Bill Stoneman

Home Ballpark (2007 Park Factors): Angel Stadium (95/96)

Who's Replacing Whom?

Gary Matthews Jr. is replacing Tim Salmon and a chunk of Maicer Izturis (DL) by way of forcing Chone Figgins back to third base
Howie Kendrick is replacing half of Adam Kennedy
Casey Kotchman is replacing Darin Erstad and the other half of Adam Kennedy
Shea Hillenbrand is replacing Juan Rivera (DL) for now
Reggie Willits is filling in for Garret Anderson (DL)
Erick Aybar was replacing Howie Kendrick when he was on the DL and is now back to replacing Dallas McPherson (DL) and Edardo Alfonzo
Jered Weaver is once again replacing his brother Jeff
Bartolo Colon is replacing Joe Saunders (minors) for now
Dustin Moseley is replacing Brendan Donnelly
Darren Oliver is replacing J. C. Romero
Chris Bootcheck is replacing the innings pitched by Kevin Gregg

25-man Roster:

1B – Casey Kotchman (L)
2B – Howie Kendrick (R)
SS – Orlando Cabrera (R)
3B – Chone Figgins (S)
C – Mike Napoli (R)
RF – Vladimir Guerrero (R)
CF – Gary Matthews Jr. (S)
LF – Reggie Willits (S)
DH – Shea Hillenbrand (R)


R - Robb Quinlan (1B)
S - Erick Aybar (IF)
S - Kenry Morales (1B)
R - Tommy Murphy (OF)
R - Jose Molina (C)


R - John Lackey
R - Bartolo Colon
R - Ervin Santana
R - Jered Weaver
R - Kelvim Escobar


R - Francisco Rodriguez
R - Scot Shields
R - Hector Carrasco
L - Darren Oliver
R - Dustin Moseley
R - Chris Bootcheck

15-day DL: L - Garret Anderson (LF), S - Maicer Izturis (IF), R - Justin Speier
60-day DL: R - Juan Rivera (OF), L - Dallas McPherson (3B)

Typical Lineup:

S - Reggie Willits (LF)
R - Orlando Cabrera (SS)
R - Vladimir Guerrero (RF)
S - Gary Matthews Jr. (CF)
L - Casey Kotchman (1B)*
R - Mike Napoli (C)
R - Shea Hillenbrand (DH)
R - Howie Kendrick (2B)
S - Chone Figgins (3B)

*Kotchman platoons with the righty-hitting Quinlan at first. Both hit in the five spot when in the starting lineup.

Comments (230)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-05-25 13:03:16
1.   Chyll Will
Clay Aiken? Harsh words, Cliff. Who's to say Clay isn't the evil one, hmm? >;)

Besides, I think he's closer to these guys:

2007-05-25 13:04:56
2.   RIYank
First, I'm with Mrs. Corcoran: the guy's name rhymes with 'stone'. Why should he get to decide? It's our language.

Second, Jered Weaver has pitched too well in May. Let's do our part tonight to support the law of averages and get his ERA back to its rightful April level.

Finally, every should please provide a sample Clippard-related headline for tomorrow's paper, now that the obvious pun has been done to death.

2007-05-25 13:07:30
3.   RIYank
Oh, I forgot to provide my own possible headline. This one is rather specialized, since it only works if Cano makes a couple of errors and Clippard is wild:
"Tippy Cano and Tyler Too"
2007-05-25 13:08:00
4.   Shaun P
2 Come on, for a game against the Angels? Too easy:

"Ty Clips Angels' Wings"

I'm just glad Figgins isn't better known. Its hard enough having a first name with 3 commonly known spellings (Sean, Shawn, and mine). A fourth would just be ridiculous.

2007-05-25 13:08:54
5.   Shaun P
3 Brilliant!
2007-05-25 13:17:26
6.   yankz
"Bad news keeps piling on for Halos"

Subtitle: Yankees' massacre of Angels overshadowed by sudden death of Rally Monkey

2007-05-25 13:21:09
7.   Chyll Will
"Yanks: Biggest Win In Ears"
2007-05-25 13:27:54
8.   tommyl
Lineup is all lefties again at the bottom of the lineup, sigh.
2007-05-25 13:33:54
9.   weeping for brunnhilde
3 Wow. I don't even know what to say, RI.

"Tippy Cano and Tyler Too."

Half of me wants to writhe in agony, the other half is awed by the sheer brilliance of the thing.

Tippy Cano and Tyler too.

2007-05-25 13:34:13
10.   Bama Yankee
1 Good ones. I still think he looks a little like this kid:

3 Very nice!

2007-05-25 13:35:33
11.   weeping for brunnhilde
3 I wonder if "tipsy Cano" wouldn't be even better.
2007-05-25 13:38:32
12.   RZG
8 The only LH reliever is Oliver and he's a long man. Don't worry about LH/RH, be more concerned with the quality of the Angels' bullpen.
2007-05-25 13:44:27
13.   Chyll Will
11 If William Henry Harrison had been tipsy, he might have been president longer.

3 Jedi Punmeister >;)

2007-05-25 13:49:25
14.   Chyll Will
10 Can't deny it. If that were playing on the PA system while Tyler warms up, do you think anyone there would notice? I could picture Tyler and Gator squaring off like that, by the way, especially during a visit to the mound...
2007-05-25 13:52:54
15.   Bama Yankee
14 I wonder if Bernie Williams can play the banjo...
2007-05-25 14:03:33
16.   Bama Yankee
3 What if we had this guy for our pitching coach:

Then it really could be:
Tippy, Cano and Tyler Too
(or I guess it would be Tyler Three... which makes no sense and absolutely ruins the pun. Forget I even mentioned it... ;-)

BTW, according to Wikipedia, Tippy Martinez actually picked three runners off first during a single inning back in 1983. After the first two, don't you almost have to be Charles Gipson to be the third guy picked off in that situation?

2007-05-25 14:03:37
17.   Chyll Will
15 I wonder if he could play 1B...
2007-05-25 14:08:41
18.   Chyll Will
16 It would probably make a better movie than You, Me & Dupree. But don't tell Sterling that joke, because you'll never hear the end of it after that and it'll all A-Rod's fault.
2007-05-25 14:15:40
19.   Chyll Will
18 It'll be all A-Rod's fault. Blasted crickets!
2007-05-25 14:21:33
20.   williamnyy23
Add the Braves to the list of teams that might be looking for another relief pitcher. According to AP, Mike Gonzalz will require Tommy John surgery on his elbow (Melky has been pretty bad, but that now looks like a good non-deal). With Salty down on the farm being blocking by McCann, maybe we could swong something like Henn and Farnsworth for Saltamacchia?
2007-05-25 14:27:17
21.   thelarmis
20 ooh, i'd love salty. he looked pretty good during his short time up recently. still not sure schuerholz would give him up for henn & farnsy. certainly worth checking into, esp. now that ca$hmoney is on a "BIG hook for 2007."

steinbrenner had lots to say today. pete abe has a nice summary of quotes.

bama - you NEED to buy that zoot suit from the last thread and frame it!

a heidi-heidi-heidi-heidi-hi

2007-05-25 14:34:23
22.   Mattpat11
We should write a letter to Bud and tell him to reverse last year's season series based on the Pythagorean winning percentage.
2007-05-25 14:35:13
23.   RIYank
No way the Braves trade Saltamacchia, unless straight up for Hughes.
2007-05-25 14:40:44
24.   Mattpat11
I don't know anyone that pronounces Chone as "Sean"

I also don't know what the hell Mrs. Figgins was on when she decided to spell his name like that.

2007-05-25 14:47:27
25.   Chyll Will
24 Her favorite movies might have been "The Hobbit" and "Shane".
2007-05-25 14:49:27
26.   Chyll Will
25 Or maybe she fell asleep reading the book while watching the movie?
2007-05-25 15:01:49
27.   Bama Yankee
21 A suit like that can't be in a frame,
not to wear it would be a cryin' shame...

a ho-de-ho-de-ho-de-ho!

(apologies to Cab Calloway)

2007-05-25 15:12:31
28.   thelarmis
according to peteabe, it now appears rocket might not pitch til the chisox series. hmmm. well, we'll be setup to throw wang, moose, pettitte again vs. beantown. if clippard shows he's for real again tonite, we can wait til the 1st full week of june for the relaunch.

cab calloway is great. louis jordan is my favorite entertainer! 5 guys named Moe : )

2007-05-25 15:16:47
29.   rilkefan
I've just been rereading some Ray Bradbury:
2007-05-25 15:19:42
30.   JL25and3
All-purpose headline for Clippard win - when Cano doesn't make errors, or they're not playing winged opponents, or some such:

The Ears Have It.

2007-05-25 15:21:57
31.   rilkefan
How the Clippard Hit His Spots?
2007-05-25 15:22:50
32.   rilkefan
Def Clippard
2007-05-25 15:31:01
33.   thelarmis
or if clip is wild and cano makes errors:

Ears & Thumbs Lead to Unearned Runs

2007-05-25 15:31:03
34.   Chyll Will
31,32 Goot!
2007-05-25 15:32:19
35.   weeping for brunnhilde
You guys are killing me.


Worth the price of admission, every penny, and the game's not even started yet!

2007-05-25 15:32:48
36.   thelarmis
if ty kicks ass vs. the angels:

Clippard's Big Red Shutout

2007-05-25 15:33:21
37.   Chyll Will
Or, if he has a so-so game:

Wax On, Wax Off

2007-05-25 15:33:25
38.   thelarmis
35 unfortunately, i won't be able to follow the game. must go to work soon...
2007-05-25 15:34:02
39.   rilkefan
There's a macabre drummer/pitcher joke in "Def Clippard" that someone else can work out.
2007-05-25 15:34:13
40.   thelarmis
37 if he's inconsistent, i guess...

Waxes & Wanes

2007-05-25 15:34:58
41.   Chyll Will
35 What are you saying, weeping? The entrance here is free >;)
2007-05-25 15:35:25
42.   thelarmis
39 i thought of it immediately. i'm a drummer for a living and i have shoulder problems from an old baseball injury so i figured it would be VERY bad karma for me to type any joking headline into the universe...
2007-05-25 15:36:40
43.   thelarmis
the angels up to their ears in clippard's funky delivery
2007-05-25 15:42:41
44.   thelarmis
ears, arms & legs ty's up halos
2007-05-25 15:44:15
45.   Chyll Will
Lanky Yankee Hears & Roars
2007-05-25 15:47:33
46.   rilkefan
42 Come to think of it our pitchers have been Spinal Tap-drummer-like this year...
2007-05-25 15:53:13
47.   thelarmis
46 well, in that case, if the game goes extras:

This One Goes To 11: Yanks Win!

2007-05-25 15:58:00
48.   OldYanksFan
Based on a post by PeteAbe at Lohud, I sent him the following EMail.

Pete, you said: "There is no interest in the Todd Helton. The last thing the Yankees need is another aging player with a huge contract."

Is this a common sense opinion, or do you have some inside dope based on conversations with Cashman or the FO?

His reply: "based on talks with FO people".

It may indeed not be 100% (you never know), but I have to guess the 'Helton Issue' is borderline DeadHorse.

2007-05-25 16:03:27
49.   Javi Javi
45 Love that. He will always be lanky yankee to me.
2007-05-25 16:03:48
50.   thelarmis
well, i gotta go hit & kick things at the same time. i'll try and channel clippard's delivery during my solos. have a good game everyone. here's hopin' i come home to a victorious headline!
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-05-25 16:06:47
51.   OldYanksFan
Hey... I dropped the big bucks (and extra $5)for MLB.TV 'Premium'. Does ANYONE know how to get the damn Mosaic thingy to work?
2007-05-25 16:11:47
52.   Cliff Corcoran
50 Wow, not only am I stoked that thelarmis is a professional drummer, but he just perfectly summed up why drumming so appeals to me "hit & kick things at the same time" -- gotta go work out on the kit in the basement after reading that one.

Great headlines, by the way, everyone. I'm especially pleased to see puns on both my name and the name of one of my favorite bands (that's right, you wanna make something of it?).

Finally, the one Clippard look alike no one's mentioned yet is this guy:

Which makes me wonder, has anyone else noticed that Clay Aitken and Thom Yorke look alike? Could there be two more opposite people of the same race and gender within the same profession than those two?

2007-05-25 16:14:51
53.   weeping for brunnhilde
Wow, did you guys see that swing from Vlad?

Fucking beautiful.

Like a serpent striking.

2007-05-25 16:36:28
54.   weeping for brunnhilde
Here we go again.

Always the same thing from these Californias; one line drive and hard ground ball after another.


2007-05-25 16:40:43
55.   yankz
53 wtf?

I hate the Angels.

2007-05-25 16:43:14
56.   williamnyy23
I was very dissapointed by the Yankees approach in the first inning. I thought all three batters could have been a little more patient. Three 3-1 counts and not much damage.
2007-05-25 16:48:23
57.   Chyll Will
Well thanks to Alex, we're back in. Settle down, Clip!
2007-05-25 16:49:07
58.   Yankees Brasil
Comon Bobby... get a hit!
2007-05-25 16:49:19
59.   williamnyy23
57 I think Clip has been ok. Sure, he gave up three well hit balls, but at least one, if not all three could have been, and perhaps should have been caught.
2007-05-25 16:49:25
60.   weeping for brunnhilde
I think Arod must have the most fluid swing I've ever seen.

I gotta give him that.

2007-05-25 16:50:57
61.   Yankees Brasil
59 They should have been caught..
2007-05-25 16:54:15
62.   williamnyy23
I am not sure if the Yankees are ready to break out of things or not, but continuing to play DM just makes things a lot more difficult.
2007-05-25 16:56:08
63.   nick
62 DM is gonna platoon with Phelps, plus get late innings, for the whole year....shocking as it may seem, our first basemen are league average right now-
2007-05-25 16:58:27
64.   randym77
50 pitches for Clippard already.
2007-05-25 17:01:59
65.   williamnyy23
63 He's actually 10% below league average from a position that should at least be 10% above. It's probably not worth debating DM during this game because he is the most moribund of all dead horses.
2007-05-25 17:05:50
66.   nick
65 no, our hitting stats for the first base position actually were, a couple days ago, very slightly over league average for that position--can't remember where I found them......and yeah, I mean, we both want him gone: there's no debate....pretty good 3rd for Clip, hmm?
2007-05-25 17:07:13
67.   williamnyy23
66 Very nice 3rd for Clip. The Yankees should really hit Weaver. I hope they don't wait until it's time for Shields.
2007-05-25 17:08:45
68.   OldYanksFan
I've never heard the phrase "..... and... IT'S OVER HIS HEAD" so much. I know great fielders make it look easy, but JD is taking bad routes to balls, and misjudging a lot of what comes his way. He is getting outright scary out there. Are we looking at GOJD?

We are stuck with this guy for 2 more years. Instead of going for a 1B-man, can we get a CFer and convert JD to 1st? That would also save his legs (and other damaged parts of his body) and conceivably keep him a productive hitter throughout his contract with us..

2007-05-25 17:09:30
69.   yankz
Doug Out's OPS+ is 93. Phelps is at 105.
2007-05-25 17:09:38
70.   williamnyy23
68 The outfield play is quitely one of the teams biggest problems. It has not only cost them two runs in this game, but probably one inning off Clippard's outing.
2007-05-25 17:10:09
71.   Yankees Brasil
68 Can he handle 1st or will he be another giambi-type defender there??
2007-05-25 17:13:41
72.   Mattpat11
2007-05-25 17:13:47
73.   yankz
Damn, A-god just missed tying it up.
2007-05-25 17:13:52
74.   Paul in Boston
Cabrera is one good shortstop. No doubt about it. Damn.
2007-05-25 17:14:42
75.   OldYanksFan
He's gotta bet better with the glove then Phelps or Giambi. I just can't imagine him holding up too many years more in CF. He's toast now. He's smashing into walls on ball he DOESN'T catch!

Between his arm and his glove, if he's passable at 1st, he will not only do less damage defensively, but be healthier and a better batter.

oh.... there's a play where a 1B-man saves a run (or more).

2007-05-25 17:15:06
76.   Mattpat11
Lindsay Lohan hosting an award show is...balsy.
2007-05-25 17:15:48
77.   chris in c-bus
not sure if anyone brought this up yet but newsday blog says Hughes rolled his ankle today and will have an MRI tomorrow.
2007-05-25 17:16:55
78.   yankz
77 Phil Hughes had his inevitable setback when he turned an ankle doing agility drills and will have an MRI. Hamstring issues always lead to problems of some sort. Torre said he didn't think the ankle problem was serious but it will delay the process.

76 Pun intended?

Come ON Clip.

2007-05-25 17:16:58
79.   nick
a lot of 90ish straight fastballs down the middle--no more 1st pitch fastballs, please, Jorge....
2007-05-25 17:17:22
80.   yankz
Er, the first part of 78 is Pete's blog.
2007-05-25 17:18:11
81.   Yankees Brasil
They just dont know how to beat the angels...
2007-05-25 17:19:03
82.   yankz
Geez louise those are enthusiastic strike calls.
2007-05-25 17:20:38
83.   3rd gen yankee fan
Clip does weird things with his tongue. Maybe he should list that on his myspace page.
2007-05-25 17:22:04
84.   nick
Yankee first basemen:
.273 .356 .483

average for AL first basemen:
.270 .345 .446

2007-05-25 17:38:09
85.   randym77
Minky is such a stud.
2007-05-25 17:39:34
86.   seamus
well, it is quiet here. i wish i was not here either. sick. sucks.


2007-05-25 17:42:46
87.   seamus
so, do folks think that Clippard was too pumped up tonight? I think that may be why he was so up in the zone all the time. Or maybe this is still him being young and not being consistent yet.
2007-05-25 17:43:08
88.   nick
ohhh shit, tell me Clippard isn't hurt, please-
2007-05-25 17:44:15
89.   seamus
wtf? why wouldn't clippard be in there?
2007-05-25 17:44:37
90.   tommyl
Why not let Clippard pitch the 5th? Come on Joe!
2007-05-25 17:45:05
91.   Zack
This move makes little sense. No idea what Joe is thinking, but then again, who ever does?
2007-05-25 17:45:25
92.   tommyl
Seriously, he'll leave Mussina out there forever no matter how he's pitching. Let the kid pitch, geez.
2007-05-25 17:46:16
93.   Jersey
I can't figure out what is more likely this year: Clippard being hurt or Torre pulling him because...who knows.
2007-05-25 17:48:40
94.   Paul in Boston
Desalvo's got nothing. Crap.
2007-05-25 17:48:40
95.   tommyl
This is working out well. Man on 2nd, behind in the count to Vlad. Maybe the kid wasn't ready to pitch out of the BP?

Why not let Clip pitch. I hope he's not hurt, but if he's not, wtf is Joe thinking? 75 pitches, 3 runs, yeah, lets yank him.

2007-05-25 17:48:45
96.   randym77
Just pitch count, I think. He's up to about 80 now. Which is probably what his pitch count was in the minors.
2007-05-25 17:48:49
97.   Zack
THis move really makes no sense. Clippard wasn't great, but he wasn't BAD. And then you bring in another kid with a lot of rest? So its not liek hes going for the win, so what is he doing?
2007-05-25 17:49:27
98.   rockymtnyankee
I do not understand the pitching change, either.

A lead-off walk and wild pitches from the reliever? DeSalvo has apparently been hanging around Kyle Farnsworth too long.

2007-05-25 17:49:57
99.   nick
& now DeSalvo has just classic rookie wildness-
2007-05-25 17:51:26
100.   Zack
I hate the Angels so much. And I hate when Joe Torre makes inexplicable moves that hurt the team...
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-05-25 17:52:03
101.   rockymtnyankee
2 walks, a hit, and a run allowed already......Yup, definitely see the Farnsworth influence here.
2007-05-25 17:52:04
102.   kylepetterson
Check please!
2007-05-25 17:52:39
103.   JeremyM
Is Clippard hurt? I'm so baffled right now.
2007-05-25 17:54:26
104.   seamus
i'm just at a loss right now.
2007-05-25 17:55:07
105.   Zack
Well, time to stop watching. F this
2007-05-25 17:56:56
106.   tommyl
Nice to know we've "turned the corner" on the season.
2007-05-25 17:57:53
107.   rockymtnyankee
The 2 walks acored, and 2 men in scoring position, and STILL no one out. I just hate it when the pitchers give runs back in the next AB right after we score.

Also, maybe it is because of the way I feel about the '61 Yanks, but DeSalvo should not be wearing Moose Skowron's old number 14, either.

2007-05-25 17:58:03
108.   Eirias
Qu'est ce qui se passe avec Clippard?
2007-05-25 17:58:55
109.   nick
the IBB, always a mistake I think with a wild guy like Viz out there...
2007-05-25 17:59:12
110.   randym77
Hmmm. Torre let Clippard throw 95 pitches last time. Maybe he is hurt, to be pulled at 75 this time.
2007-05-25 17:59:53
111.   tommyl
Ok, maybe Clippard is hurt. Still, I bet DeSalvo is gone after this, which is totally unfair. Think of the number of times "veteran" pitchers have tanked, like say Mussina two days ago, or even Mo that one inning or two. Joe has no patience for rookies, none whatsoever. DeSalvo may or may not be a MLB ready pitcher but we'll never find out.
2007-05-25 18:04:36
112.   unpopster
this team is just friggin' horrible!
2007-05-25 18:04:54
113.   seamus
this game felt good until they pulled clippard. I really don't get it at all.
2007-05-25 18:05:26
114.   rockymtnyankee
Nice quality "borderline" 3-2 pitch with the bases loaded!
2007-05-25 18:08:39
115.   Max
Double play one or two batters too late. I know there's a lot of (justified) hate for Viz, but he's been a bit better lately. DeSalvo just crapped the bed and left a near impossible situation for Viz to clean up.
2007-05-25 18:09:01
116.   rockymtnyankee
Nice comeback with the DP, Viz. Now it is tine for this vaunted "1000 runs in a season" offense to kick into gear and get those runs back.
2007-05-25 18:09:31
117.   claybeez
Can't believe they pulled Clippard. Over-managing, again? Kid has shown he can work out of trouble or at least minimize damage.
2007-05-25 18:09:37
118.   williamnyy23
I had to step away, so I apologize if it's been covered, but removing Clippard was a poor decision. Deciding to bring in DeSalvo for his first relief outing in who knows how long was even worse. Bringing Vizcaino in with men on base is pure icing.

The Yankees were having some nice swings off Weaver and could have broken through, but now this game is close to being over. Maybe I am being too critical of Torre, but this game is an example of how Joe makes it more difficult on the team. Coming back from 9 games in the standings is hard enough.

2007-05-25 18:09:41
119.   randym77
Game never felt good to me. I don't know what it is about the Halos, but they're the team I most hate playing. They're the Yankees' nemesis.
2007-05-25 18:11:14
120.   seamus
118 i think mos tagree. bad decision.
2007-05-25 18:12:18
121.   williamnyy23
Was that fair?
2007-05-25 18:13:53
122.   seamus
121 it looked over the bag, so fair.
2007-05-25 18:17:10
123.   rockymtnyankee
Hip-Hip Jorge!
2007-05-25 18:17:34
124.   Simone
Just about every time Joe pulls a pitcher early, some of you bitch and it turns out that the pitcher was injured or told Joe they had nothing left. Learn a lesson. Wait until after the game to find out why the pitcher was taken out of the game before you bitch.
2007-05-25 18:18:13
125.   williamnyy23
I have to admit I kind of thought they were turning it around, but then a game like this brings all the negative thoughts back. I guess I'm most disappointed by this game because I really like Clippard and was hoping he'd get a chance to hang around. Torre yanking him so early pretty much shows you the level of impatience that he has for younger pitchers, so it looks like T-Clip might not be around much longer. The sad thing is that I really believe he could have gone 2 more innings in him.
2007-05-25 18:18:35
126.   williamnyy23
Wow...this team can not get out of its own way.
2007-05-25 18:19:52
127.   williamnyy23
124 Give me a break. That's lame.
2007-05-25 18:20:53
128.   seamus
127 that isn't lame. I just don't think he is injured. I didn't see any indication of it.
2007-05-25 18:21:16
129.   Max
119 We're effectively throwing a AA pitcher out there every fourth or fifth day. So I'm not going to feel too good about our chances on those days, whether it's the Angels or not.

I like our young guys, but it seems like we're forced to work with some undercooked goods for the time being.

2007-05-25 18:21:45
130.   rockymtnyankee
Why is just about every game against the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim, California, USA, Planet Earth, etc., etc., such a struggle??
2007-05-25 18:22:34
131.   williamnyy23
128 What's lame is the idea that you shouldn't question a move until after learning that the pitcher isn't injured. Do you really think every time Joe prematurely lifts a pitcher it's because of an injury?
2007-05-25 18:23:21
132.   tommyl
129 Clippard is not a AA pitcher. For one thing, he was at AAA, for another he's a legit prospect. He's not Hughes, but he does project as a #3 starter in the bigs. Like I said, maybe Clip was hurt, and if he was, I have no problem with the move. If he wasn't Joe has a lot to answer for.
2007-05-25 18:23:42
133.   Simone
I just realize who is on the game thread. I'm out.
2007-05-25 18:23:50
134.   tommyl
AKLSDJFLKAJSD Figgins! He was slugging like .187 this year!
2007-05-25 18:24:01
135.   nick
bleh--god, do I ever despise the OC Angels...
2007-05-25 18:24:04
136.   williamnyy23
Is Vizcaino injured? I sure wish he was because that's about the only way to prevent Joe from bringing him to completely give games away.
2007-05-25 18:24:25
137.   williamnyy23
133 Bye bye!
2007-05-25 18:25:15
138.   Max
131 So you're saying "assume the worst" and "Fire Torre" should be the knee-jerk reaction until we find out the real reasoning behind a given move?

And you wonder why you're considered the biggest reason the discussions around here have gotten so nihilistically and corrosively negative?

2007-05-25 18:25:23
139.   nick
can we get a backup catcher who'd hit .220 from the Phillies for Farns and Viz? cause I'd make that deal so fast...
2007-05-25 18:25:27
140.   tommyl
137 There is no need for that. Simone has been on here for a long time and is always nice and understanding of people who disagree with her. Hope you decide to come back Simone!
2007-05-25 18:25:28
141.   rockymtnyankee
There it is again!......Score a run, allow multiple runs in the very next AB of the other team!...Argh!
2007-05-25 18:26:06
142.   seamus
133 i'm with you. i'm going to go watch the game and root for my team without the harassment.
2007-05-25 18:26:59
143.   vockins
137 Lame.
2007-05-25 18:27:07
144.   williamnyy23
138 First off, at least four other people questioned the same decision before I did. Secondly, fire Toree is a useless discussion because it isn't happeneing. If you don't think legitimate critism of Torre is valid, then that's your opinion. As for the negative tone, I think the Yankees are more to blame. I didn't bring in DeSalvo and Vizcaino, so don't blame me.
2007-05-25 18:28:28
145.   nick
8-3: the key here is not to use Bruney or Proctor. Who's the suck-it-up guy in the pen?
2007-05-25 18:28:57
146.   Yankees Brasil
145 it was supposed to be DeSalvo..
2007-05-25 18:29:40
147.   randym77
Pete Abe doesn't seem to think he's injured:

"So much for Matt DeSalvo. I thought he was lucky his first two starts because there were a lot of hard-hit balls. The question now is who starts on Tuesday? Clippard could come back on short rest. It may be time to option DeSalvo and bring back Sean Henn as a long man."

But I agree with Simone. We should wait until Torre's postgame interview before we start the lynching. He may have a good reason for pulling Clippard. His last start, he stayed in for 95 pitches and was allowed to pitch his way out of a jam.

2007-05-25 18:29:52
148.   rockymtnyankee
When is the last time there were 3 balls hit over the CF's head? Damon will have a neck injury to go with the rest of his aches and pains.

Viz sure has been a major disappointment so far this year.

2007-05-25 18:30:04
149.   tommyl
What's so frustrating about this season, is that other teams are finally doing to the Yankees what they used to do in the 90s; burn through the starters and get to the middle relief, which this year is a really weakness for the team. Its painful to watch.
2007-05-25 18:32:11
150.   williamnyy23
147 I read through my and everyone else's one came close to resembling a lynching. All the comments were legitimate critiques and not deserving of being labeled "bitching". If Simone is capable of denigrating other's opinions, she should be able to handle someone disagreeing with hers.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-05-25 18:33:55
151.   OldYanksFan
133 and 142
William... out of respect for Alex and Cliff, if not for loyal Banterers, do you think it might be a good idea to rethink your contributions here? Are you over 25?
2007-05-25 18:33:57
152.   rockymtnyankee
Good one, Ron.....Keep it up!
2007-05-25 18:34:05
153.   bartap74
So I guess we're looking at least 5 pitchers for this game, if not 6. I'm honestly worried about who's going to be able to pitch middle relief for this team in the second half, as everyone other than Mo will be bone tired.
2007-05-25 18:35:15
154.   nick
& they can't even get the play at 3rd????
ok, that's it for me--just an absolutely fucking horseshit performance tonight--we'll get 'em next time! (want a pony?)
2007-05-25 18:35:26
155.   williamnyy23
151 Well over 25...and no...I don't think so.
2007-05-25 18:38:15
156.   rockymtnyankee
Damon having a very tough night in CF. Yanks looking embarrassingly sloppy.....walks, WPs, plays not being made, etc. So much for the momentum we had.
2007-05-25 18:40:05
157.   Eirias
What a fantastic arm Damon showed there.
2007-05-25 18:40:15
158.   bartap74
This is starting to look like a Little League game.
2007-05-25 18:41:37
159.   Mattpat11
So glad to see the Yankees playing with such urgency
2007-05-25 18:42:14
160.   rockymtnyankee
2 terrible great catch by AROD to avert more embarrassment.
2007-05-25 18:43:50
161.   cult of basebaal
ugh ... what a complete disaster ... on the Fox Sports West coverage, they keep showing shots of Cashman, he looks like a man on a very uncomfortable "big hook" ... at one point he just got up and walked out of the private box where he was watching the game ... not that i blame him
2007-05-25 18:44:19
162.   bartap74
I understand the frustration at the negativity, but honestly, there's not a lot in today's game worth cheering about. In order to make it to the postseason, this team needs to play well above-average ball from here on out. So far, they're falling well below that standard. Boston's game is being delayed by rain, but if they do go, I think they've got an edge with Dice-K pitching against the Rangers. It's definitely getting late early.
2007-05-25 18:52:22
163.   Max
I'm not going to sugar-coat this latest train-wreck...but once the relief has to enter early because a starter gets hurt or we're throwing a young pitcher out there, it's a given this is going to happen, sadly, especially against a good pitcher. Like losing 14-2 to Texas...15-11 to Seattle...10-7 to the Mets.

But what will kill us is if the offense lays an egg against the likes of John Danks, Julian Tavarez and Horacio Ramirez, like it has the last few weeks. I'm not happy with what's going on tonight, but I can accept it more easily. At the very least, I'm not surprised.

Makes you wonder, though, how long it's going to take to get to .500 at this pace.

2007-05-25 18:56:35
164.   JeremyM
I don't want to add to the negative vibe here, but what is it going to take to get Vizcaino off the team? Chris Britton has a .93 ERA in 19.1 innings in Scranton, threw 2 scoreless for the Yanks, and was solid in the AL East last season. How long is a bad spring going to penalize him? Maybe Clemens can bring him along when he comes up.
2007-05-25 19:02:03
165.   williamnyy23
Jeter keeps his streak least that's a positive.
2007-05-25 19:02:42
166.   williamnyy23
164 I didn't realize Britton was pitching so well. It sure seems like a no-brainer to me. I wonder why they haven't done it already?
2007-05-25 19:03:31
167.   3rd gen yankee fan
Boston & Texas just started.
2007-05-25 19:05:21
168.   JeremyM
167 Well, neither team is really going to affect the wild card race, so who cares:)
2007-05-25 19:06:20
169.   williamnyy23
168 Cleveland and Detroit are playing each other this weekend, so if the Yankees can win the next two, at least they come out of the weekend one game closer to the wild card.
2007-05-25 19:07:30
170.   weeping for brunnhilde
41 You don't say, Will.

You don't say.


2007-05-25 19:09:24
171.   williamnyy23
Shouldn't every nightmare end with Mike Myers?
2007-05-25 19:14:24
172.   Bama Yankee
171 Good line, William.
2007-05-25 19:22:07
173.   nemecizer
I gotta be honest, I don't like watching this team this year. The thing that bugs me is that the veterans of the dynasty, especially Jorge, Pettitte and Jeter, are doing fine. We should be able to win.

I'll never forget the look on Giambi, Sheffield's and even Matsui's face during game 7 of the ALCS. They had just checked out as if they had resigned themselves to fate. I see that look on a lot of faces on this team. It's very frustrating.

I hope this turns out to be just a bad year, and not 3-4 in the wilderness.

2007-05-25 19:25:59
174.   weeping for brunnhilde
Nice hit, Robinson.
2007-05-25 19:26:05
175.   bartap74
Improbable comeback anyone?
2007-05-25 19:26:08
176.   bartap74
Improbable comeback anyone?
2007-05-25 19:27:34
177.   nick
Robbie is finally getting going, I think...
2007-05-25 19:29:15
178.   JeremyM
F'ing Vizcaino.
2007-05-25 19:32:11
179.   randym77
Why was Melky in for Damon?
2007-05-25 19:33:47
180.   weeping for brunnhilde
It's hard not to think Joe lost this game, depending, of course, on why he pulled Clippard.

Is the whole year really going to be like this?

2007-05-25 19:34:15
181.   weeping for brunnhilde
179 Yeah, exactly.

No idea.

2007-05-25 19:34:24
182.   3rd gen yankee fan
173 I'm thinking it's like being really really hungry and having a dish of really spicy food in front of you, you have to eat it but man it hurts.
2007-05-25 19:35:14
183.   nick
ok, making Proctor throw an inning here: Torre defenders, it's your call--waiting to hear from y'all!
2007-05-25 19:35:27
184.   weeping for brunnhilde
Why is Proctor coming in here?

Shouldn't he be saved for an actual ballgame?

2007-05-25 19:35:50
185.   bartap74
At least Joe got to his 6 pitcher quota. I weep for the state of the bullpen.
2007-05-25 19:36:06
186.   nick
the dumb decisions cascade down the line, and you end up with nobody else to pitch this incredibly low leverage inning--d'oh!
2007-05-25 19:36:50
187.   randym77
Pete Abe thinks Torre was right to pull Clippard:

I see where the Loyal Order of Joe Torre Haters are down on his hooking Tyler Clippard. Since when did Clippard earn the right to stink? He had allowed six hits – four for extra bases – in four innings and had thrown 77 pitches. Was he suddenly going to shut Anaheim down? DeSalvo was rested and has been throwing bullpens knowing he would be used in relief. It's not Torre's fault he was lousy.

Luis Vizcaino is injured, there is no other explanation. He pitched well in spring training and was good for the first two weeks of the season. Suddenly he can't throw a strike. He won't admit it for whatever reason but he has to be hurt.

2007-05-25 19:37:00
188.   nemecizer
182 Don't get me wrong, I am no fair weather fan. I watched through the late 80s and early 90s. I just prefer it when we win three world series in a row :)

To be honest, if we need to rebuild for a few years and get back to a real dynasty, I'll take the pain.

Tonight is painful.

2007-05-25 19:38:37
189.   weeping for brunnhilde
Speaking of Matsui (as he fields the ball), he had that great opposite-field hit earlier and I thought, yes, that's what he needs to do and then he went back to pulling that outside pitch in what, the 7th?--and bounced into the 3-6-3, was it?

I just don't get why sometimes he seems able to go the other way and others not.

Same with Giambi, for that matter, who actually went the other way too earlier.

More of that, people, more of that!

2007-05-25 19:41:25
190.   weeping for brunnhilde
188 Absolutely, but it has to be genuine rebuilding.

Right now it seems they're trying to split the difference, to rebuild, sort of, yet also to remain a pennant contender; exhibit A, Roger Clemens.

Why is he on the team again?

2007-05-25 19:41:27
191.   atc
187 I'm starting to think that Pete Abe doesn't really believe the stuff that he writes. I think he writes most of it to generate traffic, i.e., more posts.
2007-05-25 19:44:02
192.   weeping for brunnhilde
Fucking Derek!

He did it again!

Why did he take that pitch?

2007-05-25 19:45:20
193.   weeping for brunnhilde
Why can't they swing the baseball bats?

I mean I know this guy has good stuff, but still, why can't they protect?

2007-05-25 19:45:33
194.   williamnyy23
188 I agree...but I don't think that means you need to put a happy face on the losing as it happens. Win or lose, I'd still rather be a Yankee fan.
2007-05-25 19:46:39
195.   Max
180 To me, the issue is more about why we're throwing guys like Clippard out there in the first place -- yes, he did a nice job against the Mets, but did people really expect we'd get that out of him every time with his level of experience?

So we would have saved 2 or 3 runs (optimistically) by keeping Clippard in another inning...which still means we're in the position of trying to slug our way to a win and needing at least six or seven runs.

I do agree, though, that Vizcaino seems to be done. I attempted feebly to see the positive in his recent work, but clearly we've got Felix Rodriguez/Heredia all over again.

2007-05-25 19:47:12
196.   weeping for brunnhilde
Nice game, boys.
2007-05-25 19:48:06
197.   randym77
191 Yeah, that thought had crossed my mind, too. At the very least, he's needlessly inflammatory sometimes.
2007-05-25 19:48:24
198.   JeremyM
191 I don't know, but I am really tired of his "I told you so's" on the Hughes injury. His explanation tonight was good, but whether he was being intentionally smug or not it was really getting tiresome. But all that said, his original point was that him being a rookie is what caused the injury, which was ridiculous.
2007-05-25 19:50:24
199.   rockymtnyankee
We need to start playing .600+ baseball soon....or this season will be over....I do not want the Captain's postseason streak to end.
2007-05-25 19:51:33
200.   atc
198 His point about Hughes was just mindless...there is no other way to say it. He also needlessly piled on Arod earlier this year. I just think he intentionally takes a controversial position on most issues. Either that, or he's completely clueless. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume his motives are commercial.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-05-25 19:52:39
201.   3rd gen yankee fan
188 No I know, you've been around a while. I'm just starting to think, despite my usual insistence on the positive, that um, we may not do very well this year.
2007-05-25 20:03:35
202.   nemecizer
201 Let's be honest at this point, unless Boston tanks we will not win the division. I was an eternal optimist until the last week or two. We've dug ourselves a hole that is deep. The WC is our best hope. With the AL Central being what it is, I don't like our chances this year.

I hope Hughes and Clemens can make a difference. But I'd rather develop Hughes and Kennedy and Betances and our other prospects and produce a real 1-2-3 pitching dynasty than ruin them by early promotion.

Don't get me wrong, I want to win every game by 20 runs, and I want to win 162 games a year. I want the Yankees to win 10 WS in a row. I want this team to win.

I have good faith in Cashman to build a team that combines hungry farm kids with the right free agents to build a monster that will look like the 1998 Yankees. But I just don't see anymore how we can do that while trying to contend every year. Maybe missing the PS this year will allow us to do the ground work we need to do to dominate the game again.

This team feels like the late 1980s teams to me.

Is it time for a strategic retreat? Maybe. It's too early to tell this season, but we should know by the all star break.

2007-05-25 20:10:54
203.   Just fair
I listened to most of the game on the radio while working before heading over to my dad's to watch a couple of innings. He absolutely hates the Yankees and was in full chuckle before I even sat on the couch. Viz getting pounded, Damon's drop followed by his rocket of throw "cough-cough" to A-Rod, Villone nearly hitting the bull on an IBB.
Holy bad news bears. But in the infinite wisdom of my father, he told me what he has been telling me since little league. "Remember, It's only a game."
Little consolation for most I am sure, but my faith remains blind. I haven't kicked my dog yet, nor do I plan to. Things could be worse. Just go on a nice run, please. And get the gd Angels outta town after beating them the next 2 games. Go yanks
2007-05-25 20:42:04
204.   Jersey
202 Hughes, Kennedy, to my ears. Even if we're a ways out.
2007-05-25 20:49:59
205.   Jersey
By the way, for all those talking about rebuilding, growing the farm, glad that Steinbrenner is on his way out.
2007-05-25 21:09:04
206.   yankz
OK, some people around here criticize like they've never played baseball. Jeter stared at an easy pitch? So what? The man always gets a hit. His consistency over the past two years might be unprecedented. Instead of thinking Jeter lacks some fundamental knowledge of hitting, I'm going to give credit to the pitcher* and remind you all that it's not as easy as it looks.

*Not all the time, of course. Even Jeter messes up sometimes. I think he's earned the right to not be perfect every AB.

2007-05-25 21:20:25
207.   Mattpat11
203 Things could be worse in the world. Not much could be worse for this team.
2007-05-25 21:23:01
208.   Mattpat11
And as if everything wasn't falling apart to begin with, Igawa is being moved up to Scranton. I'm sure he'll be back soon.


2007-05-25 21:48:06
209.   ric

whassup with the bold? seriuously, i agree jeter is the last person to criticize. he is having an epic season...

2007-05-25 21:54:46
210.   tommyl
From the NYTimes, Clippard was suprised and upset about being taken out. So, there was no "reason" to do it, Joe was just being Joe, i.e. not trusting a rookie at all. The guy was losing 3-2, well under 100 pitches. Doesn't he deserve the right to battle?

And I am now officially sick of hearing Joe or any other coach bemoan the lack of starters going deep. If you are going to yank a pitcher after 4 innings because his location is a bit off, that is bs. I'm sorry. He left Moose in when his location was off, was topping out at 88mph and getting lit up like a christmas tree. Why, why did Clippard have to come out? We might have won this game.

2007-05-25 22:06:23
211.   yankz
209 Do you mean how do I bold text? Put it in between asterisks...if not, I just was looking for a few key things to emphasize.

210 Bullseye. Also, I am incredibly sick of seeing 50 pitchers a game.

2007-05-25 22:07:55
212.   Zack
210 The Times quote is:
The pitching change at the top of the fifth surprised and disappointed Clippard (1-1), who was trailing by 3-2 after throwing 76 pitches. Torre said Clippard was struggling with his pitch location.

"I never really had a terrible inning," said Clippard, who defeated the Mets last Sunday in his major league debut. "I never got in a bad rut. I was very, very surprised. You're a starter and your team is in the game. Yeah, I want the ball."

I have to agree with the Clippard and you Tommyl, the pitching change was asinine. If thats Joe's best defence for the move, shame on him...

And as for Pete Abe, his comments today linked above prove once and for all that he should stick to reporting the insider stuff. Maybe you are all right and he does it to generate comments, but he says it in pissy, I'm smarter than you and you are all stupid for saying these things, types of ways. And, of course, the things he says end up being the not so smart things.

Oh well, lets win tomorrow!

2007-05-25 22:14:42
213.   yankz
We have some brothers in California on here, right? Is it totally horrible of me to ask if one of you could arrange for the Rally Monkey to have some sort of accident?
2007-05-25 22:14:54
214.   tommyl
212 It is moves like this, precisely moves like this I think a managerial change was necessary this year. Not because the team is playing badly, or Joe can't motivate them or whatever. Instead, its because for the first time since the 90s, this team has a collection of minor leaguers ready to contribute at the big league level. They need a manager who will trust them, occasionally let them fail, but most importantly, leave them in to try.

Clippard is not lightning in a bottle, his track record in the minors shows that he can be a very good pitcher at this level. Yes, he was a bit off tonight, so what? He was battling, and even though his "location was off" he had given up zero, yes zero walks. He gave up three runs in four innings, but was well under 100 pitches. Let the kid battle. He, and the team would both have been better for it.

As I said earlier, Joe was happy to leave in Moose in a game where he clearly had nothing. Moose battled his butt off, and did what he could (he should have been yanked after the 6th if you ask me, but that's hindsight). If Clippard is a MLB pitcher, which he is right now, you have to give him the same chance. Its not as if he threw 90 pitches in 2 innings and gave up 5 runs.

2007-05-25 22:17:52
215.   tommyl
212 BTW, that's a gutsy as hell quote from Tyler. Calling out Torre, I'm impressed with the kid. Girardi should have been managing this team from day one.
2007-05-25 22:20:41
216.   WeMissPaulie
LA Yankee fan here....on my way to Anaheim to kill that rally monkey once and for all. Should have done it years ago.
2007-05-25 22:34:26
217.   yankz
216 You're a saint. Well, kind of the opposite, but awesome nonetheless.
2007-05-25 22:54:06
218.   weeping for brunnhilde
206 I'm sorry I push your buttons, that's not my intention.

First of all, I was frustrated, I'm not really mad at Derek. I'm perfectly aware of what his value is.

I was mad at that at-bat. There's a difference.

Secondly, you're turning my position into a caricature:

"Instead of thinking Jeter lacks some fundamental knowledge of hitting, I'm going to give credit to the pitcher* and remind you all that it's not as easy as it looks."

I certainly don't think "Jeter lacks some funamental knowledge of hitting." I felt that his at-bat was poor and that he's capable of doing better and in fact, I've seen him do better.

Do you disagree?

Do you think that was a good at-bat?

I think it was a poor one, not that Derek Jeter is a poor baseball player.

I'll ask you a question, yankz, and I mean this sincerely: is there a way that I can comment on what appears to me to be poor play in a way that doesn't push buttons? Because I'm really not trying to do that; I'm just talking baseball.

My coaches taught me not to go down looking when I was young. Perhaps that was bum coaching, but the point is that these things are deeply ingrained in me and it's hard to for me to see the game any other way.

2007-05-25 22:59:18
219.   weeping for brunnhilde
209 Please see above. I'm really not criticizing Jeter in the grand scheme of things.

I was frustrated with his at-bat and was noticing it's the second time in the last couple of days he went down looking in the ninth.

Both at-bats were poor ones because he went down looking on borderline pitches with less than 3 balls.

In other words, there was no hope that getting the call might get him first base, so he really should have been protecting.

If he looks at those pitches with a full count, I can live with it because he's gambling on a walk and loses.

But it's a good gamble.

He had little to gain from looking at the pitches he did so it makes me think he really thought they were further off the plate than they were, which would be alarming, or that he wasn't as focussed on the situation as I'm used to seeing him.

That's all.

It's not the failure that bothers me, it's the type of failure.

They were poor at-bats, that's all I'm saying.

2007-05-25 23:04:20
220.   weeping for brunnhilde
210 214 Agreed.

That's exactly the problem, they need to have a plan to rebuild, which means trusting the kids and allowing them to fail so that they can learn how to succeed.

Clemens being brought in is crazy because it's serving two masters: wanting to contend, on the one hand, even while 10 games back in May, and wanting to rebuild, on the other.

Choose a strategy and go with it. If it means watching a lot of kids fail so they can develop, so be it. I have the patience for that, provided it's part of a serious and well-conceived plan.

2007-05-25 23:08:15
221.   weeping for brunnhilde
215 Yeah, no kidding. I was thinking the same thing. I heard the quote and couldn't believe his bluntness.

Totally, I'm impressed by that.

Maybe it really is time for Joe to go, sad as it is to say it.

In fact, it is absolutely time for him to go because as long as he's here, there will never be a robust youth resurgence.

Although, he has been pretty patient with Melky, I'll give him that.

2007-05-26 03:50:27
222.   randym77

2007-05-26 04:11:04
223.   randym77
Holy crap. I just read that interview with Steinbrenner. (I'm on the road this week, and not keeping up on the news.)

Torre is safe, but Cashman could lose his job?


2007-05-26 05:01:48
224.   debris
202"This team feels like the late 1980s teams to me." I think they resemble the 1965 team, one full of championship caliber players many of whom got old at the same time.
2007-05-26 05:05:40
225.   ieddyi
198 His "explanation" was no where near good.
Hughes caught his spike in the grass while doing an agility drill. Saying that was caused by his hamstring injury is ludicrous. He quoted his theoretical knowledge of hamstring injuries and then proceeded to make a diagnosis w/o even having the particulars of the mechanism of injury.

He's just an arrogant tool

2007-05-26 05:45:56
226.   AbbyNormal821
I was at the game last night...U-G-L-Y...they ain't got no's UGLY (they momma says it's UGLY, HEY!)

I'm not stats girl, so I won't even attempt a stab at it, so these are just my thoughts. I figured if we stayed within a run, we might have had a shot. Clippard did not look awful to me, but he certainly didn't have what he had against the Mets.

DeSalvo was bad...Viz was abominable (SHOCKING!) I was pleasantly surprised (::ducking:::) to see Villone even though he wasn't great.

Damons fielding sucked last night. The one sweet moment was A-Rod's home run. Man, that was a thing of beauty. And I have to do it...I have to give props to Vlad. I was watching him in batting practice. He's a sick hitter. It's almost like he could hit a home run off a check swing.

Actually, there was one other sweet part - my seats. About 20 rows back from home plate, 1st row behind the walkway. Thanks to my co-worker Steve and his friend Ken for the tix! Oh, more thing. All the military at the stadium enjoying their Fleet Week in NYC. (but that's just the girly in me talkin'!) ;-)

Moving is another day. Won't be easy - Lackey has been awesome, but the Yanks got Wang.

As for the rest of it - have a great Memorial Day weekend y'all!

2007-05-26 08:17:43
227.   yankz
218 You're not pushing my buttons, sorry if I'm pushing yours or if my post appeared that way. Sure, it was probably a poor AB (I don't know which one you're talking about, but I'm not doubting your baseball smarts). I just think sometimes we gotta take a step back and think, "Derek's as hot as it gets. He was probably just fooled. Sh*t happens."
2007-05-26 09:10:15
228.   Mattpat11

In other news, The Hancock family is class all the way.

2007-05-26 09:13:50
229.   weeping for brunnhilde
227 Thanks, yankz. I appreciate the response.

I agree wholeheartedly about taking a step back. Sometimes it's hard when I'm locked into the game, pitch-by-pitch.

Point taken, though.


2007-05-26 09:28:51
230.   yankz
229 Oh man, I know all about getting locked into a game. I've said it before, sometimes I hate baseball, because it's impossible to quit.

OK, just PLEASE beat the Angels today, I can't stand losing series to them.

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