It sure would. Let's go Yanks!!!

I think if the Yanks are ever going to grab some momentum, they need this one. They definitely need 2 out of 3 and you'd think it'd be easier off Tavarez, and it would build momentum for a sweep against Shilling.

On an unrelated note, I tried to bring up the really rare calls the umps have made against the Yanks in an earlier thread, but the discussion went in another direction. Anyone have any thoughts to MCI's HBP that wasn't, and the "free" ball given to the Sox batter (I don't recall who) when Wang went to his mouth accidentally to fix his fingernail? Even though these are the rules as written, I can't ever recall them being called that way in any game, not to mention against the Yanks. What's on tap for tonight, an appeal on a sac fly where the runner is ruled to have left early?

To me, this is Moose's chance to show he belongs near the top of the rotation. There's little doubt in my mind that the Yanks score at least 4 runs. The question is: Does Moose pitch better than that and deep into the game?

2 I have seen the "going to the mouth" call before, usually as a balk with runners on, but I've never seen the HBP one, though announcers like to always talk about it. Who knows, maybe the umps are feeling ornery lately?

2 I think Joe West, the ump on both of those calls (Minky's hit by pitch, and Wang's fingernail bite) is a dickhead.

5 Was he really the ump on both of them? working the plate two days in a row?

5 I'm not sure if this was televised, but after the home plate ump finished talking with Wang and Posada on the mound, Posada turned and walked towards home all the while giving the "yap-yap" gesture, opening and closing his raised hand multiple times in the direction of the 3B ump. It was classic Jorgie. I loved it.

When Wang pitched himself out of trouble I turned and noted to my wife that Wang was throwing a ton of sliders. "That's surprising." No great insight, but nice to see that I have become a more observant and knowledgeable fan thanks to the Banter and other good blogs.

6 West was behind the plate on Sunday and at 3rd base last night. He made the call on Wang from 3rd.

Actually, I might be wrong, Rapuano might have been behind the plate on Sunday.

I've seen the (non)HBP call before but really think it was wrongly applied to Minky. The pitch was going to cross the middle of the batter's box, calf high. I think he tried to decide which way to feint, and at the last second turned so it'd hit soft tissue rather than the lower kneebone or shin. I think it was just another example of an ump being a dck, for the hell of it.

I agree that the HBP call was weak in that it looked like he strode towards the plate as if he thought it was going to be an outside pitch, and then he was so shocked that it started that far inside he froze - I bet we won't see that same call in the next 10 years of MLB.

7 That's awesome.

Actually, both paragraphs are about awesome facts.

I agree that those two calls seemed a little nitpicky. Also, at least Torre came out of the dugout for those two calls. The two biggest blown calls this year (the one against Seattle at 2nd and the Posada play at 1B last night) Torre didn't even come out to argue. I realize that he is not going to get them to change the call (although sometimes they do ask the other umps for help) but at least he might get the next one and IMO he certainly should be out there backing up Posada (even if he thought he was out).

I'm totally wrong. West's crew didn't even work the Mets series.

West worked the Cubs/White Sox series, and followed Cliff Floyd back to the dugout after he struck out looking, and then tossed Floyd. Bob Brenly pointed out that West sort of instigated the confrontation.

West was the guy who called Wang last night.

13 Actually, wasn't Torre serving his suspension the game vs. Seattle?

7 re Wang and the sliders:

I wonder if this is the solution to the question that many of us have had about the Wanger. That is, his minor league stats mirror his major league stats almost exactly, with the exception of strikeouts. He's avging 3.3 k/9 in the show vs 7 per 9 in the minors.

Last night he got 5 in 6 ip, and the slider seemed to be his k pitch.

Did he just use the slider more in the minors, and did this acct for the increased k's?

The one he was throwing last night was nifty. I remember tho in his first season and last season he hung it often when he did go to it. Perhaps this was why he almost exclusively has used the sinker in the majors.

If he can work the slider in as a k pitch and get back to striking out 7 or even 8 batters per 9ip, he'll really be a beast.

Curse of the Gimpy Crow!

(I had to say it. I'm also wearing the same clothes from yesterday. TMI?)

2 Minky's HBP, I think we got screwed.

13 Exactly. Recently someone posted a link to a youtube of a young Joe cussing out some umps. When I saw it I thought, Who IS that guy???

Maybe someone else should be in charge of getting in umps' faces. Guidry or Mattingly, they'd both be pretty good at it. I'd pick Guidry. I can't tell whether Bowa would be any good.

18 You don't want the pitching coach tossed. Bowa would be perfect, he'd get his money's worth and then some.

The HBP was a joke -- I could understand it if it was the arm or torso, but no one wants to get nailed on the knee. Still, this might be karmic payback for Jeffrey Maier.

Julian Tavarez is not that scary. How do the Red Sox play .700 ball with Tavarez starting?

OT: The NY Post and ESPN are reporting the Angels are interested in Giambi.

16 from the daily news:

Wang admitted he is gaining confidence in his other pitches this year and last night he went to them more regularly than ever before. Of the 114 pitches he threw last night, he said "20-something were sliders" and "about 10" were changeups.

"This was the most sliders in one game," Wang said. He added he was not sure how much he will use the off-speed pitch in the future. "It depends on the opponent and if the sinker is working, you have to stick with it," he said.

~~~

I'm not sure if I'm entirely happy with the last statement, it shows Wang hasn't quite grasped the importance of adding another plus quality pitch to his arsenal. I'm hoping Guidry and Posada keep pounding last night's success into his head.

Crap, it's the NESN feed. At least it's not DJ & the Hawk.

Can anybody tell me why they have the NESN feed for a Yankee home game? Shouldn't we get YES if its a Yankee home game!

20 How is it that the Angels are always in the middle of blockbuster trade rumors? ARod, Manny, now Giambi...

Let's go YANK-ees!

23 Yankees feed is off of WWOR (same as for Friday) and I guess that EI doesn't pick up the local broadcast tv games.

It still seems wrong to me for Yankee games to be on WOR, and Mets games on WPIX. 'T'ain't right.

24 Moreno money.

..I have to say Wang did not look that good to me against the Sox: lots of 2-0 counts, pitching up in the zone. I'm not gonna get excited about the slider just yet. But he made some good pitches when he had to....

Crap.

Mussina just doesn't have the stuff to get through these types of lineups anymore.

Friggin Moose. I have to say, if we do make the playoffs, I don't want this guy in the rotation. It needs to be Wang, Roger, Hughes, and AnybodybutMoose.

Well I guess this is gonna be a really high-scoring game!

He's got nothing. 86 mph fastball? Who comes in to pitch long relief?

31

I was actually thinking Wamg, Roger, Wang, Roger :)

Damn.

30 Unfortunately, you are right. I remember when the Red Sox could barely hit him as he out pitched Pedro on a regular basis.

Is Henn out there?

31, 34 Don't forget Pettitte.

Sometimes I really hate Mike Mussina.

31,34 What did Pettitte do wrong?

Can we just not use "big three" until Clemens arrives? That's all I ask.

31 Is that realistic? Really? Torre is going to send the Mike Mussina to the bullpen?

35

What's worse, is that it is painful to watch. He tries to be too perfect, relying on the same old stuff. It notices how incredible Maddux and Moyer have been. But unlike Moyer and Maddux, Mussina refuses to change his approach in game. He just keeps plugging along with the same old strategy.

Where's the "Paint Drying" channel located?

36 Henn got sent down, I think.

Man, Tavarez is one ugly motherfucker.

Geez, I miss a half inning to get some work done and look what happens. Can't you guys hold down the fort without me?

Also, slightly off-topic, but the other Yankee broadcasters seem to be working really hard to make "Flash" stick as a nickname for Flaherty. I don't remember ever hearing it when he was a player.

46 I remember hearing it, since Tom Gordon had the same nickname, the Yankees cornered the market on Flashes.

Great, Cy Tavarez on the mound facing decrepit Moose.

(Sorry for forgetting about Pettite above)

47 There's a hot flash joke in there somewhere, but I'm not going in after it.

Why exactly was the infield in there?

Maybe this is Red Sox hate talking, but why does Lugo seem to be under the impression that he is a good baseball player?

Man, Moose needed that.

Wow, 8-pitch inning. Way to "come back"...kinda.

These are the toughest games to watch. At any moment the Red Sox seem like they are about to put up a crooked number against Moose. Meanwhile the Yankee bats are silent so far. Ugh.

Well clearly Moose is stating his case as NOT one of a big three. Way to kill any and all momentum Mike. A 3 run HR in the top of the first sure can take the wind out of your sails, eh? THis game is now all set up to have us bow out to Tavarez. Yuck!

Win, lose, whatever; but they can't get shut down by Julian Tavarez. No one wants to see his grinning mug on the back pages tomorrow morning.

46 Flaherty was definitely "Flash" as a player. I suspect it was an ironic nickname.

Aw man, I hate checking into a loss.

So, if we were all convinced that Hughes was really throwing 93-94 despite the YS gun saying 90-91, then what's the actual speed of Mike Mussina's titanic 86 mph fastball?

GIDP good today. About the only thing, so far.

Is this where Joe sends in a pinch runner for Giambi?

61 Good one.

Etiquette question here: if there are a bunch of people in line at the ATM, you should hurry up your transaction and not do 5-6 different ones, right?

62

Oh, I didn't notice that there are no outs. He only sends in the pinch runner with two out.

Where have you gone Robinson Cano?

63 During normal banking hours I'd say you should limit it to 2 transactions, otherwise go to a freaking bank. After hours, you don't know, maybe the guy needs to do a bunch of stuff right away.

But I'm no Dear Abby, so who knows...

Hey, is Tavarez pitching a no-hitter?

So far, so very, very bad.

Last time Tavarez pitched three consecutive innings without giving up a hit: September 22, 2006

Farging fraq!

Paging Matt DeSalvo...

63 I'm guessing that it depends on what that bunch of people look like they're gonna do next. If they're quietly and patiently waiting, hurry up and do your biz. If they're tapping their feet and making impatient noises, slow down and count each penny, carry the one, and so on. But if they start pulling down the ski masks, run.

72 We're all in cars.

I guess that two year deal for Moose is not looking so good anymore. He was so good last year, but it looks as if Mussina has reverted to 2004/5 form, which would seriously lessen the Yankees chance of making the post season.

70 I'm also guessing you'll be wanting your ski mask now...

73 Ramming speed, then.

Suzyn Waldman: "Lowell having an outstanding year both at the plate and in the field."

Baseball Prospectus -- er, no Suzy he may be hitting well, but he's fielding at an 87 RATE, well below avg and well below his stellar career RATe of 108

63 5 or 6 transactions from an ATM? That sounds like a lot. Why not just use the teller?

74 Maybe Hughes, Clemens, Pettitte, Wang, and Clippard are enough.

Tavarez throwing a no-hitter.. things cant get much worse..

77 Careful, if Mike & Rabid Dog get hold of that information, they'd make fun of her and ruin her life.

Er, scratch that, call them up right now.

78 After hours.

79 But Hughes wont pitch again until July, so he really isn't an option. Moose is not going anywhere.

92 In that case, if it was a short line, I'd offer anyone making one cash transaction a chance to go first. Otherwise, I'd try to go as fast as possible.

Before dumping on Mussina, I think it's far more discouraging that the offense doesn't have a hit through 3 innings.

We'll add that to the list.

'Bout time.

Yay, moral victory. Now go for a real victory.

Oh my goodness, a hit.

END of no-hitter, beeyotch.

Looks like he wants no parts of Alez

91 Alexxxxxx

Arod has swung meakly at two awful 2-0 pitches...that worries me a little.

Git 'im, Socks!

Does Tavarez remind anyone else of Freddy Kruger?

Godzilla spoils Julian's evening.
Now let's see someone make it really painful. Maybe Posada.

95 Yes! I've registered that as well.

Taverez still has a shutout going.

21 I think the reason Wang said that is that they've been trying to cut down on the kinds of pitches he throws. I read one article about Wang where they said he was like a sponge. Any pitch he saw, he wanted to learn - and he did. Very quickly. He had something like 8 pitches in his arsenal, and they thought he should trim that down.

Seriously guys, I'm fat and ugly with 12 toes. Lay off.

Matsui not running...doesn't say much for Torre's confidence in Arod.

Dang. Good try. Or: what a waste. Take your pick.

Wrong part of the park.

When did winning become so hard? I guess that's what really concerns me about this team.

103 Yeah, any other angle and it's gone.

Okay, now we need an Abreu walk, and a Giambi Bombi.

Now that's a break we needed. Bring home that other duck, Bobby.

woooo hooooo!

That works for me.
Now this is Julian Tavarez.

Finally, on the board.

Dang. Fat pitch, too. We're hitting a lot of fly balls, which is a good sign. But we'd better get some results pdq.

Nerts. Oh well, at least Tavarez's nice, shiny shutout is gone. But if he doesn't pay up, that W is gonna git broke too.

Chances of Mussina giving the run right back: 2 to 1.

I take back everything I said about Gary Sheffield.

Tavarez at 78 pitches thru 4. Another inning like that and he'll be done and we can get to the Sawx middle relief.

Meanwhile, tough 1st ip for Joba the Hut against Jupiter -- 3h, 1bb, 2 er -- but he's been stellar since, only giving up 1 hit and 1 walk, striking out 6

113 His .240/.358/.429 would not be a huge improvement over Abreu's .244/.328/.338. Add in the multiple years Sheff wanted and the fact that the Yanks can get out of Abreu's contract after this season and it's still a no-brainer.

114 But you shouldn't want Tavarez out of the game. The Yankees should be pounding him to the showers, not hoping he gets taken out.

The ball isn't carrying tonight...that was hit really well.

Did Mussina just mow down the side on 11 pitches?

Tavarez should be running to his mommy, begging to be taken out, because those big scary men in pinstripes are mashing his pitches all over the place.

116 Yeah, I half had the thought about pitch count and getting into the bullpen, and then I remembered: Tavarez basically is a mediocre middle reliever. We already have the guy we can hit, so just freaking hit him.

That'll do, Cano, that'll do.

Hit it to the right side please, Doug Out.

It's the doubles machine!

Aren't we better off batting Cano 9th instead of 8th (pseudo leadoff)?

Walking DougOut? Maybe Tvz is coming apart...

A guy hitting .210 just got walked on five pitches. That's awesome.

123, the advantage of batting him 8th is that he can bat in Abreu and Giambi when they walk.

After that first inning, if you'd told me they would be in this position at this point, I would have smacked you with a salmon.

126 Trout.

See, this is why we don't want to see that middle relief. Don't Pull Him, Tito!

Captain with bases loaded. I like it.

He's so clutch right now.

I take it that the left hand batters box is part of the plate tonight?

126 Open can of tunafish.

Not an rbi (I think), but I'll take it.

132 It is an RBI as long as it's not a double play.

SALMON I says.

That is an RBI. It's only double plays that score a run which don't count as RBIs.

See, with two outs he would have had a .650 chance for a hit. With one out, it's much lower.
Now Matsui must get on for A-Rod...

Can you just feel Boston gripping?

babysteps.

Crud.
Progress. But slow progress.

133 135 Thanks. I thought fielder's choices also didn't allow rbis.

That's a major let down. With Okajima and Papelbon that games gets very short. It's pretty amazing that neither Jeter nor Matsui could make solid contact.

Yeah, that guy does look like a RS fan.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking, the late inning relief is going to be hard to hit. But we'll have a couple of innings of weak relief first.

5 pitches? WOW.

Now get a pair of runs.

Bloop y blast por favor.

Wow, Moose getting stronger as the night progresses.

We should have played one practice inning first.

Moose has taken himself off the hook by settling down. Can the Yankee bats salvage the game, or will this be yet another rock bottom?

GO MOOSE

A-Rod, Posada, an Abreu walk, a bomb by Giambi or a double from Robbie.

No! Leave him in!!!

Yes. Good job, Tito.

145 Walk y Blast works too.

Walk and GIDP, not so good. Damn.

Jorgie's hitting .440 from the right side.

No, Jorge. Not at all like that.

That's awful! 2-1 count against a sinker ball pitcher and no hit and run? Torre keeps sitting back and nothing is forthcoming.

147 Tune in next time... Same Bat Time... Same Bat Channel...

150 Um, we may be hitting the ball hard, but we've still only got friggin 3 hits of Tavarez. That's why I wanted one of their crappy middle relievers.

I mentioned earlier in another thread that I was a bit dismayed about what seemed to me the team's reliance on the longball in their new life the past couple of days.

I think this is what I had in mind; they need to convince me they can scratch out a couple of runs here without a homer and I'll be a happy man.

Abreu pathetic...it sure looks like the good signs over the past games were nothing more than a respite in this increasingly disappointing season.

159 In fairness, not many lefties would have hit that guy.

Uh oh. Mussina thought he had that pitch. Prepare for a fat fastball or hanging knucklecurve...

See, I'm just the opposite, Weeping. I'm definitely looking for a long ball!

157 I think you want a pitcher you can hit hard. No? That was Tavarez. Now it's gonna have to be Lopez, and I'm not confident we can hit him hard.

Out by half a freakin' foot! Come on, this is twice in the last few weeks!

There was an SI article at the beginning of the year that made some ridiculous claim about umpires missing only a handful of calls on the bases ALL year. In the first 7 weeks of this season, there have been at least 10 poor calls in Yankees games alone.

Ugh. Lost him. Dammit, Moose, so close.

It sure would be nice if Torre would be as proactive as Francona.

Also, I mentioned earlier in the year, but Posada's throwing has regressed significantly. He should have thrown out Crisp.

So instead of being in the dugout with a 2 run deficit, Moose is still pitching.

that 5th run is a fucking killer...

The way the umps are positioned they can't see the play if the fielder is in front of the bag. Bad work.

fucking bullshit. Another botched call that comes around to score. Now we get to watch the Yanks lose by 1 run and know that it's bullshit.

WE JUST GOT SCREWED AGAIN BY A BAD CALL!

Well there goes that.

I'm glad that blown call hasn't cost us any runs or anything.

Mussina really is lacking in the fortitude department. He seldom seems to respond to adversity.

168 Good, so that sixth run probably didn't hurt, then.

It was a bad call...but the Yankees are losing because they have played a bad game. In fact, we may have to accept that this is a bad team.

Screwed on a call, run scores, what else is new. Welcome to 2007 Yankees baseball.

Cano butchering that double play ball looms really large, even more than the call.

And here comes the requisite Ortiz HR off Myers

So glad to see such a miserable effort in a game the Yankees had to win

Geez...why not just walk Ortiz and bring in a right hander to pitch to Manny.

178 Cano was lucky he even got to that one - I wouldn't consider that a 'botch'...

Mike Myers, you are the Ortiz Specialist. The idea is that you prevent him from getting RBI. (Someone forgot to explain it to him.)

181 But not that right hander! Torre is throwing in the towel. I guess he might as well. This team expects to lose, so it shouldn't be a suprise that they've become quite good at it.

Looks like there's no reason for Mike to stick around. He was signed to get Ortiz out. That's just not going to happen anymore, is it?

182 The ball was in his glove and he did everything short of kick it.

Hey look. Not Randy Johnson is in.

pbbbbbbbbbbbblth

I think Joe made the right call here: Vizcaino is the right man in this spot. You don't want to waste Bruney or Mo. And Proctor is obviously out of the question.

189 Proctor is out of the question for a number of reasons.

190 Uh. Well, the one I was thinking of was that he pitched yesterday and two innings the day before!

Well...it looks like sub-.500 into June. I am now ready to concede the division, which I guess only means I'll now root for Boston to beat the likes of Cleveland and Detroit.

191 And the fact that I get Manny out more often than Proctor.

Myers is a loogy in Bizarro World.

Jeter and Matsui making outs with bases loaded and Jorge GDP in the 6th really hurt. It is not our hitting, as much as our situational hitting when we are behind, that is killing us.

178 A hard hit, one hopper to his backhand? Butchered? That was not an easy play.

171 It was VERY close and I think he was safe. The replay (NESN) looked like he had his hand in when he was tagged.

I don't know what to do with our $16m auto-out. Abreu is killing us no matter where he bats in the lineup. Has he had an RBI in the last month? 15 day DL him and bring up KT? At this point, especially considering defense, KT gives us a better chance.

Tough call for Torre. Maybe the Angels will take Abreu for Figgens and cash.

189 I agree...this game is over. If this was chess, you'd just concede. Of course, bringing in Viz is the next best thing.

186 fwiw, he had to cut across nearly half the infield to get to it....

195 If we can trade Abreu, I want a prospect, not Chone Figgins.

178 And the ball was still going into his glove. And that Robbie played hackey sack with it.

Time to go clean my bathroom

195 Why do we want Figgins?

201 Because he's not Miguel Cairo?

193 Oh, I wasn't aware of that reason. How many AB does Manny have against Proctor?

194 And Cairo plays shortstop, right? We should have a Bizarro team.

What an inspired inning!

Kay is making a great point. Hindsight is 20/20, but the Yankees really miss Sheffield. I was happy with the trade, but Sheffield is exactly what this team needs. A right slugger whom you can plant in the 3-hole.

Chone Figgins is very bad at hitting baseballs. Very, very bad. He isn't better than Cairo. He does have a cool name, however.

Abreu will be better. He'll get on base a lot. He just didn't do it today.

204 Ideally, I probably wouldn't have traded Sheffield for the new Jaret Wright.

I know this has probably been discussed to death here, but what can they do to improve for the future (rebuild, in other words)if they decide they're out of it this year?

Well looks like I picked the right game to miss. Somehow I had a hunch. So this game, and Moose, will either go down as the momentum killer/nail in the coffin, or just a blip on our way up. If they can win tomorrow, chalk it up to a bad game. If not, well, poop

199 I'm sure you would have gotten it, though, right? :P

2034 for 9, 3 HR 1 BB 7 RBI

Yeah, I'd rather have our guys face Tavarez than Lopez, Yankee Fan in Chicago. 157

208 Blip in the way up? They had only won 2 games in a row, after losing 3 in a row and 5 of 6. Without a doubt, this is yet another anchor in a season going nowhere.

210 Wheeeeew. Small sample, but awesome.

209 I'm only good at getting Manny out better that Proctor. I'm not an every day player.

196 I don't agree with giving up. This is a team that can hit. They do put some crazy shite together sometimes.

I agree with some of the guys that have written on here who say they'd like to see a Yankee get fired up. I know that's not Torre's bag, but someone needs to get these guys pumped up.

Two more runs for the Yanks and it's a tie game when you take the bad SB call away.

212 "without a doubt"!
You need some doubting practice, dude.

I think I'll tune out. I don't like the way this banter is bantering.

212 Man. Why do you even watch?

215 We can't take that SB away.

215 I don't agree with giving up either, but reality sucks. This team is still 10.5 games behind with no signs of positive momentum. The team is losing 7-2 in a game that featured Mussina vs. Tavarez. What more can you ask for?

217 216 Same thought put differently.

219 Apparently if we take the stolen base away, there is positive momentum.

217 Why would anyone watch if they prefer to be blind to reality? Watching implies "seeing", and the reality is this team has shown no signs of contending.

So is this what it's come down to. Before it was the dog or the wife that had to put up with the incessant negativity. Now it's your friendly neighborhood blogmates.

I think I may be giving up on game threads.

222 ah, yes, "truth goggles" make their return

216 Oh...so you think this loss is a positive? Once again, "without a doubt" this loss is another low point in a season full of low points. If you see a positive in this loss, please share it.

223 I find it amazing how so many people can't accept valid criticism of the team. Is this a forum for an honest discussion of the team? If so, how could the tone be anything but negative.

222 Please don't presume to think for me. Minds, dull ones and great ones alike are prone to divergent rather than convergent thought at times. Why not accept that not everyone sees things just as you do? Could you at least keep the doom and gloom comments to a minimum. If you want to offer an informed critique instead I'm all eyes.

"Incessant negativity?"

Yay this game!

Maybe tomorrow we can do it AGAIN and be 11.5 out!

222 Maybe your time would be better spent, oh I dunno, getting drunk or something - as opposed to watching & getting yourself more & more depressed every single night.

At least getting drunk feels nice after a while.

225 Huh?
I didn't say that the loss is a positive, whatever that means. I was making fun of your 'without a doubt'.
You said that the season is going nowhere 'without a doubt'. That shows a disturbing incapacity for doubt on your part.

223 Come back another day, claybeez. This is a particularly depressive crowd.

I'm out, see youse tomorrow.

227 Uhm...weren't you the one who asked why I watch? So, I guess you don't mind thinking for others, but don't like when others do it for you?

Apparently its the Big Show.

225 I don't see this game as a positive. The positive will be if they get up and beat Schilling tomorrow after a sucky loss tonight.

Also, the thinnest of silver linings? They didn't burn out the bullpen. Moose sucked, but at least he gave them 6.2 innings...(.2 too many?)

229 I don't drink. I watch baseball. I also have no problem honestly assessing the performance of the team. If others feel positive, good for them. I haven't seen many positive signs and have failed to read a convincing argument from one of the resident optimists.

Take away Moose's horrendous 1st inning and the blown call, and we're winning this game!

;-)

Anyway, you doom and gloomers or trolls or whatever can have the night. Lots of us see that the team is playing poorly, but telling others what they need to see and pronouncing the season over after every bad inning lacks foresight.

I loved coming here. I think Alex and Cliff need to check back in more often and steer this board back towards more enlightened banter.

234 That's funny because you're going to drive a lot of us here to drink.

230 No...you are putting words in my mouth. What I said was "Without a doubt, this is yet another anchor in a season going nowhere."

Without a doubt refers to this loss being another low point in the season, preventing the team from rising in the standing. I stand by that.

234 well, at the very least, you have no problem convincing yourself you can honestly assess the performance and probabilities of things

235 If you take away 15 losses, things are looking up.

238 you are nothing if not grounded firmly in tautology ...

Maybe they'll win tomorrow. That'd be nice.

240 yes, yes, i know, if we don't sweep the red sox, the terrorists have already won, etc, etc, blah, blah ...

236 You guys are amusing. Whenever someone provides a negative commentary, you complain about the tone and suggest that the Banter is going down hill. Well, I think positive spin is inane, but that doesn't mean I take my ball and go home or hope that Alex/Cliff will steer the conversation more in line with my opinions. Geez...I didn't realize so many here can't handle differing opinions.

243 I agree. Who gives a shit about beating Boston? We can surely make up a ten game lead without doing it. Or maybe we can do it every once in a while.

one bit of cool news -- cap'n jetes now 1 game away from joe d. he stands at hits in 75 of 78 games. wow.

go pettitte! let's destroy scurt manana...

Anyone familiar with the movie "Aliens"?

Why do MattPatt and Williamnyy23 remind me of the Bill Paxton character...?

Cowboy Joe towers over Pedroia.

Good to see Arod still hustling. It'd sure be nice if someone could get a hit.

I want to see Papibon v Giambi(and not in ninth)

Abreu has been pulling off the ball for weeks now - when does Long actually tell him about it?

247 Not familiar. Is that another disparaging comment about those having the audacity to think differently from you?

249

the old back push hustle.... cough*bushleague*cough

Never liked The Alien movies.

253 If Dusty can't handle slides in the big leagues, maybe he should let Cora play?

252 I assume someone thought the Aliens would pose some kind of problem.

I further assume the character died.

252 Well let's just say he's got the same positive attitude as you guys.... ;-)

Pedroia is an 11 year old with male pattern baldness.

257 Did he live?

257 Oh I see...nothing like, "don't worry about those Aliens, they're friendly"?

253 Oh we're sorry - is there going to be a Photoshop of A-Rod with a women's handbag on the front page of Dirt Dogs tomorrow because of it?

259 He was one of the last ones to die, fwiw.

259 So he was right.

252 just because a broken clock happens to be correct twice a day, doesn't mean i should look to it when i need to know the time ... but thanks for being that shining beacon of intellectual courage that we all need in these desperate times ...

261

his posture during his slide would probably call for a different photoshop such as pushing a baby carriage or something

This whole negative versus positive debate is really silly. Is it really being negative to suggest that the Yankees poor play has made winning the division a seemingly lost cause? I don't think that's negative; I think it's realistic. When one of the resident optimists can put together a sound argument for why losing a game like this doesn't put the division all but out of reach, then I'll listen. Those who simply complain because they'd rather not be exposed to "negative" thoughts don't really hold much sway.

253 From Wikipedia:
Bush league is a term used to describe someone who is really a Red Sox fan but hangs out on a Yankee site during infrequent Boston hot streaks but disappears when the Yankees are winning.

264 I'm not really interested in your cliched, petty retorts. I could care less whether you "look to" my analysis or not. I am only interested in those willing to debate the merits of the Yankees performance, not whether others have the right to think differently from them.

265 That's convenient because Dusty would probably fit in the carriage.

I think its sort of funny that someone tried to debunk us by comparing us to a character that was proven right.

Come on Cano, get on base.

267

im not hanging out anywhere.. im sitting in my living room with a laptop just like you.

270 What I think is funny is how anyone could expect the tone of a game thread like this to be anything but negative. When the Yankees play poorly, one should expect negative comments. If I'm kicking the team when they play well, then I'll take the criticism to heart.

Lean into that Melky!

273 Dude, Secretariat is dead, stop beating him!

275 Dude...Matt and I didn't make our comments the topic of the day, so you'll have to endure our rebutals.

williamnyy23 and Mattpat11
2 years ago, a Red Sox/Yankees game would generate 700-1000 entres on this blog.

Of 270 entres, you two have about 70 of them.
You have basically done 2 things.
1) Remind us that the Yankees suck
2) Defend yourselves because people are reacting negatively to your presense here.

The 2 of you are chasing people away. Many have expressed that sentiment here, many others will just quietly leave.

You are much more interesed in voicing your opinions, or should I say reality? then in listening to others and trying to be a contributing part of this community.

You are hurting this blog and the great efforts Alex and Cliff have put into building this community.

Now please, write some intelligent, defensive retort to this comment, and certainly don't think about what I've said.

I'll be honest, I really thought they were going to get over on Papelbon there after getting the first 2 runners on, another one of those games.

I'm upset by this loss and the season so far, but my God, 277 OldYanksFan nails it.

We need to win series..

279 well said, brother.

Pettitte tomorrow. LET'S GO YANKS!

I need someone to explain to me, what, on a day where the Yankees have lost their sixth game of the season to Boston and pushed the team back to a double digit deficit, what exactly would be a productive post that contributes to the community?

I assume it would be "Go Johnny! Get a hit!"

277 When I signed on mid-way through the game, there were only 60 posts. I have a hard time believing I'm driving people away. I think the Yankees poor play is doing that just fine.

If offering your honest opinion is hurting a blog, then that doesn't speak well for the participants. If you read my posts, I do not disparage others. Instead, I simply point out "negative" aspects about a poor performance. If this community can only tolerate positive thoughts, then I don't really want to be a part of it. There are more than enough posters who seem quite capable of dealing with diverse opinions. When that stops being the case, I'll bow out.

I'm sorry you don't like my presence. To be honest, I don't really enjoy the presence of several members as well. Instead of disparaging them, I simply ignore their comments. I don't feel the need to pontificate about what is a good opinion and sincerely wish you would refrain from doing the same.

The Yanks' efforts tonight in a Mussina-Tavarez match-up in a must sweep home series were depressing and embarrassing beyond words. The pitching stinks, and our hitters have made Tavarez look like Cy Young for an unacceptable second time this season. This looks like early '78 again, but another comeback is highly unlikely with the Red Sox pitching this year....and I see nothing that gives me hope that the Yankees can play the necessary .600+ baseball for 118 games......They can not even win 3 in a row with a favorable pitching match-up at home. If things do not change real fast, the Captain will be watching the post-season for the first time in his career. Nothing much to cheer about these days other than Derek imitating the Clipper and Jorge.

Let's hope the hitters support Andy tomorrow night for once, get the deficit back under 10 games, and we take care of the BoSox in the next series at Fenway.

Btw, I think Ortiz has developed as a hitter.

I don't recall him spraying the ball this a couple of years ago.

He's really a good hitter, hard to catch off-balance, has some very effective defensive swings.

284 That is, spraying the ball this much.

267 $

Things to be positive about:

Melky and Cano both had good at-bats in the ninth.

In fact, it's just this sort of at-bat that gives so much faith in Melky. That was a tough at-bat in a very tough situation, coming off the bench against a guy like Paplebon. He struck out, but not without a fight. He just got beat, no shame in that.

Cano interestingly swung at ball four high yet laid off a much tougher pitch low for ball four. That was a good at-bat. If he can learn to lay off that high pitch as well, we might be in business.

Also, the team did put up a fight, but I think it all came down to the bottom of the seventh.

AFter they put up those runs, Giambi went up there and hit a fairly weak tapper to first on a 3-1 pitch.

What the hell was he doing? That's a poor at-bat. If you're going to swing 3-1 in that spot you damned well better make good contact.

And then Robbie swinging at the first pitch, not good. Not good. I forget who the third out was (Phelps?) but the inning was a disgrace. They needed to make Boston work at least, to try to grind out something.

It was as if they'd lost focus or were just deflated by the top of the inning.

For this team to start to perform better they're going to need to put up quality at-bats each and every time they step up to the plate.

Boston, meanwhile, hit the ball the other way and up the middle with two outs.

We need to take a page out of their book.

Oh, and one last thing to be positive about--Moose pitched his ass off. He kept us in the game despite a poor performance. Since I don't expect an A-type performance from him anymore, I think it's fair to say he did his job.

It's time for the bats to hit the baseball.

They need to win without the homerun, to remember how to hit singles.

We're so far past the point where we should be taking moral victories and reveling in strikeouts because they look more than three pitches.

All the "nice signs" needed to lead to something a week and a half ago.

Actually, the negativity and "realism" have scared ME away. It just hasnt been worth it to slog through all the apocolyptic posts.

OldYanksFan is right, I feel. Whatever my opinion is worth.

And Moose totally pitched great considering the Manny homer. If only that ump hadnt blown that CS call....

Then again, yesterday Wang got a pitcher's pitch to get Youkilis, and Posada was out tonight on that DP ball (of which A-Rod was out of line, and got credit over Pedroia's rookieness). I guess the blown calls are a part of the game. Which is why Jeter should not have been taking with 2 strikes and Papeljerk's mechanics all out of wack. Check out the HardBallTimes article on Papeljerk and a possible injury. Watching him lately makes me think it may be true.

288 I wouldn't quite say I'm revelling in strikeouts, but the point about Melky was less a point about the team than it was about the development and potential of Melky Cabrera.

I'm still watching him like a hawk for improvement because I really like him and that at-bat reminded me why, is all.

I'm rooting for him.

I don't know, I don't think I'm looking for "nice signs" so much as "quality baseball," or things to build upon.

I'm not forecasting anything, just observing.

289 Yeah, the Jeter thing.

That was maybe the worst at-bat I've seen from him all year.

There's absolutely no excuse for him not to be protecting there.

I mean, I think it's fair to say that was clearly too close to take after the previous strike. He should have been looking to drive that pitch the other way, or at least to ward it off and wait for a better one.

But that's fine, he's entitled to a bad at-bat now and again, he's obviously doing his part, like when he led off the 8th with that single up the middle.

If more guys just tried to go up the middle and opposite field I really think we'd be seeing much better results.

289 Tell me. 10.5 games out. Totally non competitive with Boston. What is there to be positive about? And spare me the "IF SUCH AND SUCH HAPPENED we'd have 15 more wins!" Because such and such didn't happen when the Yankees sucked it away. The fact that we could be better if the team was competent is of little consolation to me.

From your post, and your repeated use of the haha-larious "Papeljerk" I assume you think the blog should be filled with "Red Sux sux! M I Rite? Come on Dougie! I no u can get a hit one of these times! Hit a HR!"

Or maybe "If the Yankees would have just hit the ball every so often, we'd be 25-18! No need to panic!"

Just a general question for all the positive people. In your opinion, if the Yankees hope to contend, when do you think would be a good starting point for them to start winning? Obviously its not tonight. Thats too negative. But when is a positive time to demand this team win 13 of 15 and beat the teams they need to beat?

A follow up question. If the team continues to play like this, at one point is it no longer negative to say this team needs a miracle to make the playoffs? Another week? two? Three?

The obsession with fundamentals, while somewhat warranted, is a little extreme. I remember someone complaining recently that Matsui tried to pull an outside pitch. I kept that in mind, and the very next day, I saw Matsui hit a double to left on an outside pitch. Had he forgotten how to hit the previous day? No. It was just proof that hitting a baseball is in fact the hardest thing to do in sports. A lot has to go right. "A-Rod should not be swinging through fat fastballs"? It's a little harder than it looks.

294 That's me, yankz.

You say it's a little extreme, and you may be right. It's just my observations.

You're right, sometimes they do pull those pitches with authority, but they usually don't.

It's not about forgetting how to hit, it's about giving yourself the best chance to get a hit with each at-bat. Trying to pull that outside pitch doesn't appear to be the best way to maximize one's chances for success.

If you watched Boston tonight, you'll have noticed how often they just hit the ball where it was pitched. Youklis and Ortiz both did masterful jobs of that and in my humble opinion, the ability to do that with consistency is the difference between a winning team and a losing one.

At least, it seems to be a major factor.

And I still believe Arod shouldn't be swinging through fat fastballs.

Of course it's harder than it looks, but I don't think that's the issue.

Arod swung through that pitch because he refused to shorten his swing.

Sometimes I actually do see Matsui take that outside pitch the other way, which is why it puzzles me that he doesn't do it more often.

In some situations it pays to gamble on hitting a double or a homerun, in others, it's best to pass the baton, as it were, to play pepper and keep the inning going.

Frankly I don't think stressing fundamentals can be extreme, I mean, they're fundamentals, not special super powers I'm looking for.

Anyway, your point is taken.

"Which is why Jeter should not have been taking with 2 strikes and Papeljerk's mechanics all out of wack. Check out the HardBallTimes article on Papeljerk and a possible injury. Watching him lately makes me think it may be true. "

You complain about the site and then say Papeljerk like you're 12.

As far as the injury, 94 and no one stood a chance. Did you actually watch the game?

Man, the Banter has been testy of late. Losing sure brings out some bitterness. Sooooo, tomorrow it is!

255 Interesting response by Pedroia. Next time April-Rod tries to cheap shot young Dustin, he'd better have his purse in front of his face.

298 Will The Lil Tyke hit him with his legos?

298 smeone should put a stop watch on debris. how many minutes after the red sox winning a game against the yanks did that take?

300Actually, despite the fact that my team is performing pretty much as expected, this is only about the third time I've bothered to log in here this year. Hadn't really planned to comment, just enjoy the breast-beating, pulling of hair, and gnashing of teeth.

Regarding the injuries that have befallen the Yankees pitching prospects and designated fifth starters du jour, did you not think there would eventually be karmic payback for Small and Chacon? George may be able to torch $200M on "talent," but apparently the devil cannot be bought.