Baseball Toaster was unplugged on February 4, 2009.
If there are two things Joe Torre can't stands from his young relief pitchers it's walks and embarrassing blowouts. I can't say I blame him, but I do worry about the severity of his aversion.
Colter Bean's last outing before he was shipped back out to Scranton saw him pour gas on Kei Igawa's fire at home against the Mariners on May 4. Bean entered the game in the fifth inning with two men on and no outs and simply could not throw a strike. He walked the first two batters he faced on eight pitches, forcing in a run. At that point the Yankees still held an 8-7 lead, but rather than recognize that the kid just didn't have it that night, Joe Torre left Bean out there to give up an RBI single and a two-RBI double. Bean threw a total of four of his 17 pitches for strikes and left with the Yankees trailing 10-8. Luis Vizcaino would allow both of Bean's remaining runners to score along with two more of his own to push the score to 14-8 in a game the Yankees eventually lost 15-11. The next day Bean was optioned back to Scranton in favor of Darrell Rasner, who was needed in the rotation. Obviously there's no defense for Bean's performance in that game, and someone had to go to make room for Rasner, but Torre has a habit of allowing one bad outing like that count for more than it should with young players. Those four batters could easily have buried Bean the way Andy Phillips four strikeouts buried him in early 2005, erasing all the good he'd done in spring training and in his three other scoreless regular season innings (and of course his stellar seven-year minor league career).
Yesterday, Sean Henn followed Bean down to Scranton. After beating out Ron Villone for the second lefty job in the pen, Henn had been fantastic in his first seven outings on the year, allowing just nine base runners and one earned run in 10 2/3 innings. Included in that total was one lonely walk. In his next eight games, Henn had walked nine in 6 2/3 innings and compiled a 7.50 ERA. The final straw came last week at home against Texas. The Yankees and Rangers were tied 1-1 after four innings, but Chien-Ming Wang gave up three in the fifth and combined with Vizcaino (there's that man again) to put up another three-spot in the seventh. Suddenly the Yankees were down 7-1 in a game that had been close. Vizcaino gave up another run in the eighth and Henn was called in with two on and one out to face lefty Brad Wilkerson. Wilkerson singled, Mark Teixeira doubled, and a walk and a Victor Diaz homer later the Yankees were down 14-2. Henn hadn't pitched since then and got his tickets to triple-A yesterday when the out-clause on Villone's contract came due.
Again, Henn's performance was indefensible and he and Bean both had options that men such as Vizcaino don't. One can't really get on Torre or Cashman for farming out these struggling young pitchers (well, Henn was struggling, Bean was squeezed out by a more important need), but I do worry about their willingness, or lack thereof, to recall them should Bean and Henn perform well in the minors and veterans such as Vizcaino continue, or in the case of Villone (who had a 1.90 ERA with 21 hits and 27 Ks in 23 2/3 innings for Scraton) start, to struggle.
As for Vizcaino, his game log splits look a lot like Henn's but worse:
Games 1-8: 1.08 ERA, 8 1/3 IP, 2 H, 1 R, 4 BB, 2 K, 0 HR
Games 9-19: 13.30 ERA, 9 2/3 IP, 16 H, 15 R, 10 BB, 8 K, 2 HR
The only thing that doesn't make sense is the strikeout rate, which was bad when he was good and good now that he's bad.
Incidentally, Kyle Farnsworth had one bad outing in the second week of the season in Minnesota (1 out, 4 Runs), but since then he's posted a 3.00 ERA in 12 games, allowing 14 base runners in 12 innings and striking out seven. Not great, but good enough for middle relief. If you limit it to his last 11 outings, that ERA drops to 2.45 with 12 base runners in 11 innings, all 7 Ks, and just one homer.
What a mean trick... Jose is either going to great lengths to extend his career, or he hit Luis on the head early on in the season and has been masquerading as him ever since. It would explain a whole lot, honestly; though Lon Chaney would have pulled it off even better if he were still around (at least his ERA would have been consistent with Luis so we wouldn't be tipped off) >;)
On another note, Villone has thrown more innings in the minors than any of our current relievers has, isn't that a bit worrisome? Add that to the fact that Britton has a .7 something era, and, well...
2/(25 outs + 2 hits + 4 BB + 2 K) = 2/33 = .061 K/PA in the early going, and
8/(29 + 16 + 10 + 8) = .127 K/PA in his later outings.
So, effectively doubled rather than quadrupled. I don't remember what statistical test is used to see if two samples have been drawn from the same population, but on the face of it I'd say that the means probably wouldn't be shown to be different.
If anything I'm more peeved by Unit's performance. He'll wind up throwing almost 200 decent innings for the Dbacks and everything the Yanks got in return will have promptly stunk the joint up. Worse, Jackson and Dorf (still rooting for you!) will prevent the Trenton kids from throwing AAA innings. Hey, but what else is new?
Let's see what Unit does against an offense that could actually win 81+ games in the AL, like the Mets and the Brewers. Way too early to judge.
Besides, when it comes down to it, would you rather have Clemens or the Unit? I'll take Clemens, and I'd bet you would too.
Regardless, what I'm hoping is that Henn was optioned down to get Villone and Viz into a 2 week battle royale. The winner stays, loser is dumped with Henn back up to replace the loser. Ideally, Villone shows something & replaces Viz, Henn comes back, and Viz & Meyers are sent to Phily for their BUC & some balls, with Britton replacing whoever falls off (or if Farns can be traded for a 1B or soemthing). Sweet
It's funny. I can't remember all the times people here complain about Torre's fast hook with relievers, and how he should leave guys in to 'see what they can do/get out of their own shit'.
However, in this case Cliff, it seems you wanted a fast hook.
Torre's BP management is pretty bad, but whatever he does, it will almost always be wrong around here.
9 Unit did go 7 innings (5 ER - but still) against the Mets. How many times has a Yankee starter gone 7 innings this year? And that was his second start back. The point: he's still very valuable (and especially to the NL Dbacks) as a LAIM.
That could be bloodier than "The Sopranos."
You know who's happy to see Villone back on the Yanks? Red Sox.
Minuscule samples here, but even a little cyanide can kill you.
2005
Vill v Boston
3 games 2 innings 27.00 ERA/4.50 WHIP/.544 BAA
2006
8 games 10.1 inn 9.58 ERA 2.32 WHIP .318 BAA
Career v Boston
19 games 7.86 ERA .305 BAA
Meanwhile, if Unit "crapped out" what does that make Moose or even Pavano?
1) "He'll wind up throwing almost 200 decent innings for the Dbacks"
... again, your crystal ball says 200 innings, but in TRUTH, 'time will tell' and not your statement.
... and 200 innings or not, in the NL West, looking and what he does and alluding to that's what he would have done for us, is silly.
2) "... everything the Yanks got in return will have promptly stunk the joint up."
... well, here's my crystal ball taking but, I don't think Cashman said "OH BOY... these guys are REALLY going to help us THIS YEAR!"
... I think it was a salary dump (successful), I think it cleared payroll for a possible Roger signing (successful), I think it got an unpopular guy who disappointed off the team (successful), I think RJ's health and ability were in question (time will tell) and I think we may eventually get some good value from the trade (time will tell)... you never know (see Proctor).
You focus on outcome, Jim... which is more about fate, luck and the Random Chaotic Nature of Baseball (RCNB).
If we had gotten Beltran for $40m/4yrs, it would have been a great deal... a great trade.
1) If he had a .623 OPS the first year, it was still a great trade.
2) If he had a .574 OPS and stole Jeter's uniform the second year, it was still a great trade.
3) If he complained about gas, and put himself on the DL for his entire 3rd and 4th years... it was still a great trade.
A great trade that due to RCNB, turned out shitty.
Conversely, if we had paid 4 million for Small when we got him, it would have been a terribel deal. The fact that he went 10-0 was a lucky fluke, due to RCNB. A terrible deal that turned out great.
Good decisions come from:
1) collecting as much pertainent data as possible.
2) analyzing that data in as many valid ways as possible.
3) making an many valid deductions from the analyzation as possible.
and then, based on your needs, goals and philosophies, making the best decision possible.
When you do this, you make good decisions. But outcome... well...the RCNB very often determines that.
Based on the needs, goals and philosophies of the Yankee's, I think Cashman's RJ deal looked like a decent deal.
If RJ pitches 240 innings and wins 25 games, I think the RJ deal was decent.
If RJ hurts his back, and never throws another pitch, I think the RJ deal was decent.
If the kids we got turn into the 3 greatest pitchers in baseball history, I think the RJ deal was decent.
If the kids we got never appear in another professional basebal game, I think the RJ deal was decent.
ahhhh Grasshopper... you must separate from outcome, because that is out of our control. Outcome is up to RCNB.
I still don't like the trade, for reasons that have been beaten to death here, but what's done is done.
Once again, the team now needs 6 pitchers, when it barely has 5, and will likely have to use an emergency starter when it faces the Mets on Sunday.
On the other hand, the rotation could be set up nicely for Mussina, Wang and Pettite to face Boston (against Schilling, Tavarez and Beckett/Hackysack).
Too bad the Rocket can't skip Tampa on Friday and show up at Shea Sunday night!
ERA+ for Moose:
2005: 101
2006: 125
ERA+ for Unit
2005: 117
2006: 88
By crapped out, I meant that he wasn't what we thought we were getting.
Who's Pavano?
http://www.nypost.com/seven/05062007/sports/yankees/mound_dogged_yankees_joel_sherman.htm?page=0
...
Sanchez, who another GM said "had too many red flags to acquire because of his injury history," already is out with Tommy John surgery. The Yankees could have taken a lesser overall package from Arizona and obtained Micah Owings, who has a 3.38 ERA in four starts for Arizona. Instead, they took Ohlendorf, who has been so abysmal at Triple-A that DeSalvo, Phil Hughes, Chase Wright, Darrell Rasner and Jeff Karstens have all gotten opportunity instead of him.
And me, I'm talking outcomes:
Vizcaino - sucks and continues to take a bullpen slot from guys like Henn and Britton.
Jackson and Ohlendorf (still rooting for you!) - suck and are clogging the system. Smith and Marquez should be in line to move to AAA in a month or two which would then open slots at AA for Kennedy and Chamberlain.
A-Gon - Can't hit or field.
A crappy trade all around, even if you look at it simply as a swap of Unit for Roger - a wasted opportunity.
25 Right but you can't leave out IP either:
ERA+ for Moose:
2005: 101, 180 IP
2006: 125, 197 IP
ERA+ for Unit
2005: 117, 226 IP
2006: 88, 205 IP
Oh, and in 2007:
Moose: 87 ERA+, 17 IP
Unit: 89 ERA+, 30 IP
So, Unit pitches more (even after major surgery) and is about as effective as Moose. Who's more valuable and who's crapping out?
26 And me, I just wanted a 1B or some bench help!
I don't think RJ was happy here. I don't think 'being a Yankee' had any value to him. If he had stayed, he MAY have given us a good year. He may not. But I'm glad he's off the team.
Having said that, I am not convinced that Cashman could have done better and think it was important to move Johnson, not only to save the money and free up the clubhouse for Clemens, but also because I don't think RJ wanted to pitch in NY anymore (which has to impact results on some level).
I think that sentiment colors the perspective of many fans. Sure, he was an overpriced SOB. But he had value to the 2007 Yankees and if traded should have brought something of value in return.
Instead they have a choice on Sunday of either throwing a fragile Moose on short rest or Chase Wright.
Um...Jim Dean, I'll take the word of many scouts/experts over yours and believe that Gonzalez can in fact field.
BTW, Owings got injured. I'm guessing we'd hear something like "Cashman sucks, first Sanchez now this!"
I'm not happy he's off the team, I wasn't happy when the Yanks traded Rickey all those years ago either. You don't give away talent for pennies on the dollar, because a player is "unhappy." If it gets to the point where he sabotages the team (spiking the gatorade, replacing the bats with balsa wood), then look into moving him, otherwise he'll have to suck it up.
30 That's the thing, he didn't have to move RJ. He simply expressed a preference to play closer to home, and was accomodated. Cashman could just as easily said "we'd like to move you, but we can't" or something along those lines.
Cashman has admitted that he knew that Sanchez might require TJ surgery.
Consequently, to compare Owings to Sanchez makes no sense.
Is Cashman ever accountable for anything?
Can't a dead horse get any rest around here?
But while I'm up, anybody wanna talk about the backup catcher situation?
2yrs avg Moose 188 4.00
2yrs avg Randy 215 4.40
Randy is 5 years older, has bad knees and a bad back. Looks to me like RJ pitches more innings, with slightly lesser results.
RJ would have been making $6m more then Moose?
----
Joel Sherman is a know-it-all who thinks he's the only one who can evaluate talent. There's no move made that he doesn't think he could have improved. He's a total gasbag.
While I would much rather have gotten Owings instead of the package we did (if it's true that Owings was on the table and Cashman didn't take him, it's a bad, bad move by Cash) his criticism here is nonsensical.
Rasner and Karstens both have big-league experience AND both already pitched for the Yankees. Obviously they are ranked higher than Ohlendorf.
At the time of Wright's promotion, Ohlendorf wasn't pitching abysmally -- Wright was just pitching lights-out (and was on the 40-man, which made things easier).
It shouldn't be a surprise Hughes was promoted before Ohlendorf -- he is, after all, the best pitching prospect in the system.
DeSalvo had a 1 ERA, and is apparently a favorite of Joe Torre. Again, no surprise he was promoted first, either.
Again, Owings would have been better than the trio of players we got, but Sherman once again makes an idiotic statement to defend his point.
What scouting reports on A-Gon have you seen? The bastardized versions in the press? Who they themselves are writing what they heard? Meanwhile, he sucked in spring training.
Sanchez I had no problem with and especially not with Whelan and Claggett.
34 I agree with everything you say. The same "we can't get a fair deal" has kept Manny in Sox for how many years?
36 It's scheduled at 7pm. Anyone know if it's been moved to accomodate ESPN?
37 That last question is one I've been asking myself for years now. The greatest trick he's pulled is working for the NY Yankees for ten years and has never been held accountable. That in itself is impressive. The media he treats well. But the fans? I've never understood all the love for him.
Don't get me wrong, he's a good GM and the Yanks could do much worse (Isaiah). But they could also do better. Me, I just wish he did his job better. Between 2006 and 2007, I've been much less than inspired. Now with Villone and Vizccaino instead of Henn and Britton, I'm afraid it's back to the old logic.
Cashman has been learning, but not quick enough for my taste. And Mghjfdokhgn endures.
40 The point was only that if Unit has been "crapping out", so has Moose. And Moose is still on the team and still getting hurt. Unit had major back surgery and has already tossed almost twice as many innings as Moose (who had no surgery) and at the same level of effectiveness.
Then again, that may be its own dead horse.
I read earlier today that Willie Mays started his career by going 2 for 25. Some of you would have wanted him sent back down, and Whitey Lockman in the OF if this was 1951 and the site was called "Manhattan Banter". Sheesh.
36 Not sure, but I'll bet the Tampa Yankees site has it. 7PM. Ought to be quite an event. Might be more fun to watch than the Yanks-Mets game, if only to see Tabata and some of the other kids.
Whatever happened to Witasick and Wohlers?
Are they still on the 40 man roster?
With Ohli and Karstens injuried, Rasner, DeSalvo and Hughes up with the club, they have called up Wright, and have Jackson and Clippard left. The S-WB pitching roster is like a ghost town. Heck they brought in a 38 year old guy just to fill up a roster spot. Obviously Marquez isn't ready yet, and his #'s, while good at AA, the gb/fb don't seem to show a pitcher witha good sinker, which is troubling.
But more importantly, they need to call kennedy's butt up to AA already and promote someone, anyone up to AAA to be a warm body. If by the end of the season they can have a AA rotation of Joba, Kennedy, Smith, Marquez, Horne, all of whom will be set to start at AAA next year and contribute to the majors, that will be perfecto...
Oh, and 26, the Sheff trade and the Unit trade were two different, non-comparable situations. The Sheff trade was a "lets get what we can for him since he's gone anyway" trade, and they knew that Sanchez was a risk. He'll be 26 next year, same age as DeSlavo is now, so don't say thats too old.
As for the Rocket deal, yeah, perhaps they could have gotten Owings, perhaps not. I'd say more than likely not since just as many sources are quoted as having said thats who Cashman wanted. Heck, the Sox "could" have gotten Jake Peavy last yer for Mike Lowell, but somehow that didn't happen either.
So, in order to save our poor friend in 39 , let's discuss who they WILL in fact have pitch that extra day. Moose is a possibility on short rest, so is Clippard (but of course thats one more AAA arm gone), BP by committee is a possibility as well...Or I guess Igawa could be called up for a game...
"Barry Bond's Brother Upset with Aaron over snub."
I mean, my God, that's Bobby Bonds Jr! And he's defending his brother!
I'm guessing Chase Wright on Sunday.
Wright isn't a bad call, I'd rather see them go Clippard just to give him the experience, but I bet you're right
Deadhorse, what about that blown call by the ump last week that cost the Yanks the game, eh? If you could get in touch with Conspiracy Theorist and ask him/her how much that call has affected the Yanks' currently dispirited play, I'd really appreciate it (I could use the extra scratch...)
55 Yeah, Chyll. I got flogged more than the ump after that blown call.
And I'm getting flogged somethin awful today thanks to a malodorous New York Observer piece comparing Katie Couric's struggles at CBS to A-Rod's on the Yankees. (deadhorses don't provide links)
Dang, it ain't easy bein' a deadhorse.
Anybody gonna ask me about my cameo in "The Godfather", or can I finally get some shut-eye up in this here Banter joint?
http://www.curbed.com/archives/2007/05/16/georges_bronx_hole_gets_filled.php
Alex Karras. Now there's an actor.
The stuff we did together in Blazing Saddles.... The scene where Mongo punches me out was all his idea, but that rat Mel Brooks gets all the credit.
Anyway, I'd take Mongo over Brando any day.
http://tinyurl.com/3667rb
Could you do us all a favor and answer this one for us:
"Who is Karim Garcia?"
YANKEES
Damon CF
Jeter SS
Rodriguez 3B
Posada C
Matsui LF
Phelps 1B
Abreu RF
Cabrera LF
Cairo 2B
Mussina RHP (2-1, 4.76)
Pregame chatter: The Yankkes have not picked a starter for Sunday. Joe Torre said bringing back Chien-Ming Wang on short rest is a possibility. The other alternative seems to be Class AAA lefty Chase Wright. Mussina is not an option. … Kei Igawa has been scheduled to pitch for Class A Tampa on Saturday. He has changed his delivery and reportedly has a better fastball as a result.
interesting news on igawa, though i'm more interested in hearing he's improved his control, since i've thought his stuff has been good enough in the outings i've seen of his to be a successful starter, but his command his been wildly inconsistent
Of course my career hasn't suffered a bit, and the skinny little witch gets busted for shoplifting. Hilarious!
Oy, the Karim Garcia question again, 'Bama?
Wouldn't your sequel have to feature one of these guys:
http://tinyurl.com/2pjncb
http://tinyurl.com/3xjme2
http://tinyurl.com/2o3xfg
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