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Torre Don't Play That
2007-05-15 21:05
by Cliff Corcoran
Note: The Bronx Banter blog has moved to bronxbanterblog.com.

If there are two things Joe Torre can't stands from his young relief pitchers it's walks and embarrassing blowouts. I can't say I blame him, but I do worry about the severity of his aversion.

Colter Bean's last outing before he was shipped back out to Scranton saw him pour gas on Kei Igawa's fire at home against the Mariners on May 4. Bean entered the game in the fifth inning with two men on and no outs and simply could not throw a strike. He walked the first two batters he faced on eight pitches, forcing in a run. At that point the Yankees still held an 8-7 lead, but rather than recognize that the kid just didn't have it that night, Joe Torre left Bean out there to give up an RBI single and a two-RBI double. Bean threw a total of four of his 17 pitches for strikes and left with the Yankees trailing 10-8. Luis Vizcaino would allow both of Bean's remaining runners to score along with two more of his own to push the score to 14-8 in a game the Yankees eventually lost 15-11. The next day Bean was optioned back to Scranton in favor of Darrell Rasner, who was needed in the rotation. Obviously there's no defense for Bean's performance in that game, and someone had to go to make room for Rasner, but Torre has a habit of allowing one bad outing like that count for more than it should with young players. Those four batters could easily have buried Bean the way Andy Phillips four strikeouts buried him in early 2005, erasing all the good he'd done in spring training and in his three other scoreless regular season innings (and of course his stellar seven-year minor league career).

Yesterday, Sean Henn followed Bean down to Scranton. After beating out Ron Villone for the second lefty job in the pen, Henn had been fantastic in his first seven outings on the year, allowing just nine base runners and one earned run in 10 2/3 innings. Included in that total was one lonely walk. In his next eight games, Henn had walked nine in 6 2/3 innings and compiled a 7.50 ERA. The final straw came last week at home against Texas. The Yankees and Rangers were tied 1-1 after four innings, but Chien-Ming Wang gave up three in the fifth and combined with Vizcaino (there's that man again) to put up another three-spot in the seventh. Suddenly the Yankees were down 7-1 in a game that had been close. Vizcaino gave up another run in the eighth and Henn was called in with two on and one out to face lefty Brad Wilkerson. Wilkerson singled, Mark Teixeira doubled, and a walk and a Victor Diaz homer later the Yankees were down 14-2. Henn hadn't pitched since then and got his tickets to triple-A yesterday when the out-clause on Villone's contract came due.

Again, Henn's performance was indefensible and he and Bean both had options that men such as Vizcaino don't. One can't really get on Torre or Cashman for farming out these struggling young pitchers (well, Henn was struggling, Bean was squeezed out by a more important need), but I do worry about their willingness, or lack thereof, to recall them should Bean and Henn perform well in the minors and veterans such as Vizcaino continue, or in the case of Villone (who had a 1.90 ERA with 21 hits and 27 Ks in 23 2/3 innings for Scraton) start, to struggle.

As for Vizcaino, his game log splits look a lot like Henn's but worse:

Games 1-8: 1.08 ERA, 8 1/3 IP, 2 H, 1 R, 4 BB, 2 K, 0 HR
Games 9-19: 13.30 ERA, 9 2/3 IP, 16 H, 15 R, 10 BB, 8 K, 2 HR

The only thing that doesn't make sense is the strikeout rate, which was bad when he was good and good now that he's bad.

Incidentally, Kyle Farnsworth had one bad outing in the second week of the season in Minnesota (1 out, 4 Runs), but since then he's posted a 3.00 ERA in 12 games, allowing 14 base runners in 12 innings and striking out seven. Not great, but good enough for middle relief. If you limit it to his last 11 outings, that ERA drops to 2.45 with 12 base runners in 11 innings, all 7 Ks, and just one homer.

Comments (70)
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2007-05-15 22:14:50
1.   Chyll Will
0 "Bean threw a total of four of his 17 pitches for strikes and left with the Yankees trailing 10-8. Jose Vizcaino would allow both of Bean's remaining runners to score along with two more of his own to push the score to 14-8 in a game the Yankees eventually lost 15-11."

What a mean trick... Jose is either going to great lengths to extend his career, or he hit Luis on the head early on in the season and has been masquerading as him ever since. It would explain a whole lot, honestly; though Lon Chaney would have pulled it off even better if he were still around (at least his ERA would have been consistent with Luis so we wouldn't be tipped off) >;)

2007-05-15 22:27:04
2.   Chyll Will
1 As it turns out, Luis is Jose's middle name, so he probably felt he had a perfect right to hit the other Luis on the head and take his spot in the BP, though I wish he didn't. (Jose, it's been over six years; let it go man, the Yanks don't want you anymore!)
2007-05-15 23:00:33
3.   Cliff Corcoran
I think I warned you guys I was going to do that about 50 times this season, didn't I?
2007-05-15 23:00:40
4.   Zack
Wow, a rational analysis of Bean that doesn't include references to his appearance and also notes that Bean had, until that game, been effective. I'm shocked, shocked I tell you! Don't let Jim Dean read this, combined with the Andy Phillips reference, we'll start hearing about 30 year old career minor leaguers etc...

On another note, Villone has thrown more innings in the minors than any of our current relievers has, isn't that a bit worrisome? Add that to the fact that Britton has a .7 something era, and, well...

2007-05-16 00:07:21
5.   Jeff P
The strikeout rate looks a lot worse in the recent outings if you consider it on a K/PA basis rather than a K/IP basis. Ignoring his one DP this season (I can't be bothered to find out which game), he got:

2/(25 outs + 2 hits + 4 BB + 2 K) = 2/33 = .061 K/PA in the early going, and
8/(29 + 16 + 10 + 8) = .127 K/PA in his later outings.

So, effectively doubled rather than quadrupled. I don't remember what statistical test is used to see if two samples have been drawn from the same population, but on the face of it I'd say that the means probably wouldn't be shown to be different.

2007-05-16 02:49:37
6.   Jim Dean
4 Nah, I don't mind Bean so much. And me, I wouldn't be surprised to see an Andy Phillips appearance in the next month.

If anything I'm more peeved by Unit's performance. He'll wind up throwing almost 200 decent innings for the Dbacks and everything the Yanks got in return will have promptly stunk the joint up. Worse, Jackson and Dorf (still rooting for you!) will prevent the Trenton kids from throwing AAA innings. Hey, but what else is new?

2007-05-16 02:59:34
7.   Jim Dean
6 Lest I look all doom and gloom, I have pleasantly noticed Francisco Cervelli's solid start in Tampa - .355 .450 .473 with a grand slam last night. Given that he's a 21 year old, switch hitting catcher High-A - that's nice. Also nice - Ian Kennedy has had a tasty start and got 11 K's in 6.2 IP last night (against 3 BB).
2007-05-16 03:46:28
8.   mehmattski
7 Yeah I'm looking forward to the Clemens start on ESPN on Friday not so much for Roger but for a chance to see Cervelli, Tabata and Friends.
2007-05-16 04:26:29
9.   Shaun P
6 Nothing like facing those high-powered NL offenses to help makes one's stats look better. (Colorado is the 12th-highest run scoring offense in the NL.)

Let's see what Unit does against an offense that could actually win 81+ games in the AL, like the Mets and the Brewers. Way too early to judge.

Besides, when it comes down to it, would you rather have Clemens or the Unit? I'll take Clemens, and I'd bet you would too.

2007-05-16 04:39:41
10.   seamus
Regarding Bean, every time I've seen him this year he has given me a heart attack. He has trouble getting it in the zone. That outing wasn't the only time he struggled with that.
2007-05-16 05:29:17
11.   ny2ca2dc
10 Totally. Every time Been was up his command has been all over the place. He got away with it for a while, then got slammed. He might be the pitching version of Andy Phillips (great in minors, shit in majors). Agree with Cliff that Joe does seem to leave kids out there to get shellacked for some reason; Bean vs. the Rangers i was just hoping he could even deliver a pitch withing leaping distance of Posada. He should have been yanked after the 2nd walk.

Regardless, what I'm hoping is that Henn was optioned down to get Villone and Viz into a 2 week battle royale. The winner stays, loser is dumped with Henn back up to replace the loser. Ideally, Villone shows something & replaces Viz, Henn comes back, and Viz & Meyers are sent to Phily for their BUC & some balls, with Britton replacing whoever falls off (or if Farns can be traded for a 1B or soemthing). Sweet

2007-05-16 05:35:45
12.   OldYanksFan
"At that point the Yankees still held an 8-7 lead, but rather than recognize that the kid just didn't have it that night, Joe Torre left Bean out there to give up an RBI single and a two-RBI double."

It's funny. I can't remember all the times people here complain about Torre's fast hook with relievers, and how he should leave guys in to 'see what they can do/get out of their own shit'.

However, in this case Cliff, it seems you wanted a fast hook.

Torre's BP management is pretty bad, but whatever he does, it will almost always be wrong around here.

2007-05-16 05:45:03
13.   Jim Dean
8 Excellent point. And here I thought it was silly that ESPN was showing the game - just didn't put those pieces together.

9 Unit did go 7 innings (5 ER - but still) against the Mets. How many times has a Yankee starter gone 7 innings this year? And that was his second start back. The point: he's still very valuable (and especially to the NL Dbacks) as a LAIM.

2007-05-16 05:59:10
14.   rbj
Unit was great in the NL, crapped out in the AL, and is now good again in the NL. I'm actually a bit concerned that Roger might get hit hard in the AL. Or maybe I'll just ascribe Randy's performance with the Yankees to a bad back (now healed) and discomfort with NY (which Roger won't have).
2007-05-16 06:03:22
15.   Sliced Bread
Villone is not starting Sunday night, right? RIGHT?!
That could be bloodier than "The Sopranos."

You know who's happy to see Villone back on the Yanks? Red Sox.

Minuscule samples here, but even a little cyanide can kill you.

2005
Vill v Boston
3 games 2 innings 27.00 ERA/4.50 WHIP/.544 BAA

2006
8 games 10.1 inn 9.58 ERA 2.32 WHIP .318 BAA

Career v Boston
19 games 7.86 ERA .305 BAA

2007-05-16 06:11:09
16.   Jim Dean
14 I don't know that he "crapped out" - he did win 34 games in two years. That's only possible by being decently effective and getting on the mound for over 400 IP. He was a fine #4 but was expected to be a #2. There's a good chance both will also be true of Roger though some prob expect him to be a #1.

Meanwhile, if Unit "crapped out" what does that make Moose or even Pavano?

2007-05-16 06:19:15
17.   OldYanksFan
6 I respond to your comment Jim, feeling like a man standing in a puddle of gasoline and lighting a cigarette.

1) "He'll wind up throwing almost 200 decent innings for the Dbacks"
... again, your crystal ball says 200 innings, but in TRUTH, 'time will tell' and not your statement.
... and 200 innings or not, in the NL West, looking and what he does and alluding to that's what he would have done for us, is silly.

2) "... everything the Yanks got in return will have promptly stunk the joint up."
... well, here's my crystal ball taking but, I don't think Cashman said "OH BOY... these guys are REALLY going to help us THIS YEAR!"
... I think it was a salary dump (successful), I think it cleared payroll for a possible Roger signing (successful), I think it got an unpopular guy who disappointed off the team (successful), I think RJ's health and ability were in question (time will tell) and I think we may eventually get some good value from the trade (time will tell)... you never know (see Proctor).

You focus on outcome, Jim... which is more about fate, luck and the Random Chaotic Nature of Baseball (RCNB).

If we had gotten Beltran for $40m/4yrs, it would have been a great deal... a great trade.
1) If he had a .623 OPS the first year, it was still a great trade.
2) If he had a .574 OPS and stole Jeter's uniform the second year, it was still a great trade.
3) If he complained about gas, and put himself on the DL for his entire 3rd and 4th years... it was still a great trade.

A great trade that due to RCNB, turned out shitty.

Conversely, if we had paid 4 million for Small when we got him, it would have been a terribel deal. The fact that he went 10-0 was a lucky fluke, due to RCNB. A terrible deal that turned out great.

Good decisions come from:
1) collecting as much pertainent data as possible.
2) analyzing that data in as many valid ways as possible.
3) making an many valid deductions from the analyzation as possible.
and then, based on your needs, goals and philosophies, making the best decision possible.
When you do this, you make good decisions. But outcome... well...the RCNB very often determines that.

Based on the needs, goals and philosophies of the Yankee's, I think Cashman's RJ deal looked like a decent deal.

If RJ pitches 240 innings and wins 25 games, I think the RJ deal was decent.
If RJ hurts his back, and never throws another pitch, I think the RJ deal was decent.
If the kids we got turn into the 3 greatest pitchers in baseball history, I think the RJ deal was decent.
If the kids we got never appear in another professional basebal game, I think the RJ deal was decent.

ahhhh Grasshopper... you must separate from outcome, because that is out of our control. Outcome is up to RCNB.

2007-05-16 06:37:51
18.   williamnyy23
12 Agreed. I was at that game and pretty much everyone was complaining about why Torre didn't make a change. Despite being a frequent critic of Torre, I actually agreed with his decision to let Bean figure it out. With the bullpen in disarray and two rookies going in the days ahead, my attitude was either Bean is going to pitch well or the game is lost (losing the battle to win the war). I thought Torre managed that game very well. Now, one could argue that he should have gone immediately to Myers, but I don't think anyone could have expected 4 shutout innings.
2007-05-16 06:40:42
19.   C2Coke
17 Can't believe you are trying with Jim Dean again. I applaud you for that.
2007-05-16 06:42:26
20.   Raf
17 Given that Unit had pitched 200+ last year with a bad back, assuming the surgery was a success, it wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility that he could throw another 200 this year. Especially since he has thrown 200+ innings 9 out of the past 10 years.

I still don't like the trade, for reasons that have been beaten to death here, but what's done is done.

2007-05-16 06:46:29
21.   Raf
18 I was at that game too. I know there are some times when you let a pitcher "figure things out" which is why I suspect he went with Igawa for so long, but you saw from the beginning that Bean had nothing. I can understand sticking with a pitcher when he's giving up bloop hits, or just missing the zone with his pitches, but he had nothing that night.
2007-05-16 06:48:15
22.   williamnyy23
Was last night's rainout another monkey wrench, or a blessing in disguise?

Once again, the team now needs 6 pitchers, when it barely has 5, and will likely have to use an emergency starter when it faces the Mets on Sunday.

On the other hand, the rotation could be set up nicely for Mussina, Wang and Pettite to face Boston (against Schilling, Tavarez and Beckett/Hackysack).

Too bad the Rocket can't skip Tampa on Friday and show up at Shea Sunday night!

2007-05-16 06:51:29
23.   williamnyy23
21 Right...he had nothing...but the rest of the bullpen was incredibly overworked. If you yank Bean there, you are committed to burning out an already tired bullpen as there would still be 5 innings left to get. With two rookies going Sunday and Monday, I think Torre had no choice but to let Bean get crushed. Ironically, if he'd have managed the bullpen similarly in the beginning of the season, the team might have won a few more games in April.
2007-05-16 07:05:20
24.   Raf
23 If that's the case, why pull Igawa @ all? Let him TOFTT.
2007-05-16 07:22:47
25.   rbj
16 Wins are a poor measure of how good a pitcher is.

ERA+ for Moose:
2005: 101
2006: 125

ERA+ for Unit
2005: 117
2006: 88

By crapped out, I meant that he wasn't what we thought we were getting.

Who's Pavano?

2007-05-16 07:23:42
26.   Rich
Here's what (if true) troubles me about the RJ trade (via a Joel Sherman, who, while not a very good baseball analyst does have very good sources):

http://www.nypost.com/seven/05062007/sports/yankees/mound_dogged_yankees_joel_sherman.htm?page=0

...

Sanchez, who another GM said "had too many red flags to acquire because of his injury history," already is out with Tommy John surgery. The Yankees could have taken a lesser overall package from Arizona and obtained Micah Owings, who has a 3.38 ERA in four starts for Arizona. Instead, they took Ohlendorf, who has been so abysmal at Triple-A that DeSalvo, Phil Hughes, Chase Wright, Darrell Rasner and Jeff Karstens have all gotten opportunity instead of him.

2007-05-16 07:24:40
27.   williamnyy23
24 Igawa was so bad, I think it was reasonable to think Bean would be better. He was, in fact, worse, but Torre couldn't have and shouldn't be expected to know that.
2007-05-16 07:44:05
28.   Jim Dean
17 I've said it before, and I'll say it again - the Unit trade was a chance to improve the 2007 Yankees. Cashman blew that chance even though he was moving a LAIM. Worse, they could use Unit's innings even now. And they could have just as easily moved him now as then. Indeed, his value would have gone up (esp. to a team like the Dbacks in dire need of pitching) when he showed he was healthy.

And me, I'm talking outcomes:

Vizcaino - sucks and continues to take a bullpen slot from guys like Henn and Britton.

Jackson and Ohlendorf (still rooting for you!) - suck and are clogging the system. Smith and Marquez should be in line to move to AAA in a month or two which would then open slots at AA for Kennedy and Chamberlain.

A-Gon - Can't hit or field.

A crappy trade all around, even if you look at it simply as a swap of Unit for Roger - a wasted opportunity.

25 Right but you can't leave out IP either:

ERA+ for Moose:
2005: 101, 180 IP
2006: 125, 197 IP

ERA+ for Unit
2005: 117, 226 IP
2006: 88, 205 IP

Oh, and in 2007:
Moose: 87 ERA+, 17 IP
Unit: 89 ERA+, 30 IP

So, Unit pitches more (even after major surgery) and is about as effective as Moose. Who's more valuable and who's crapping out?

26 And me, I just wanted a 1B or some bench help!

2007-05-16 07:46:57
29.   OldYanksFan
20 I would agree that RJ is probably good for 200+ innings. I would agree that he may still be a quality pitcher. If he has a very good year, I won't be surprised, as I think he is happy in Arizona and the NL.

I don't think RJ was happy here. I don't think 'being a Yankee' had any value to him. If he had stayed, he MAY have given us a good year. He may not. But I'm glad he's off the team.

2007-05-16 07:50:29
30.   williamnyy23
28 If Cashman could have received more pieces to help the 2007 club, while also obtaining the same salary relief, then I agree with Jim. Ohlendorf and Jackson are not/were not so attractive that their acqusition should have excluded other options.

Having said that, I am not convinced that Cashman could have done better and think it was important to move Johnson, not only to save the money and free up the clubhouse for Clemens, but also because I don't think RJ wanted to pitch in NY anymore (which has to impact results on some level).

2007-05-16 07:59:33
31.   Jim Dean
30 See, that's the thing - I think Cashman chose quantity over quality. He's thinking in terms of percentages where they don'tapply.
2007-05-16 08:08:25
32.   Jim Dean
"But I'm glad he's off the team."

I think that sentiment colors the perspective of many fans. Sure, he was an overpriced SOB. But he had value to the 2007 Yankees and if traded should have brought something of value in return.

Instead they have a choice on Sunday of either throwing a fragile Moose on short rest or Chase Wright.

2007-05-16 08:12:53
33.   yankz
Why did you guys let this happen? This is, by my rough count, the 8 billionth time these posts have appeared on this site.

Um...Jim Dean, I'll take the word of many scouts/experts over yours and believe that Gonzalez can in fact field.

BTW, Owings got injured. I'm guessing we'd hear something like "Cashman sucks, first Sanchez now this!"

2007-05-16 08:17:20
34.   Raf
29 Whether or not a player is happy has little to do with the results on the field. Johnson had one good year and one bad year here. The bad year was presumably because he was pitching with a bad back. That he's "happy" in AZ and in the NL has little to do with it. He was grouchy as a Mariner, he was grouchy as a D-Back, it should be no suprise to anyone that he was grouchy as a Yankee.

I'm not happy he's off the team, I wasn't happy when the Yanks traded Rickey all those years ago either. You don't give away talent for pennies on the dollar, because a player is "unhappy." If it gets to the point where he sabotages the team (spiking the gatorade, replacing the bats with balsa wood), then look into moving him, otherwise he'll have to suck it up.

30 That's the thing, he didn't have to move RJ. He simply expressed a preference to play closer to home, and was accomodated. Cashman could just as easily said "we'd like to move you, but we can't" or something along those lines.

2007-05-16 08:18:46
35.   Simone
I am about ready to call PETA to rescue that poor beaten dead horse.
2007-05-16 08:18:48
36.   yankz
What time is the Clemens game?
2007-05-16 08:21:43
37.   Rich
33 Did Owings have a pre-existing elbow problem too? Nope.

Cashman has admitted that he knew that Sanchez might require TJ surgery.

Consequently, to compare Owings to Sanchez makes no sense.

Is Cashman ever accountable for anything?

2007-05-16 08:24:05
38.   Raf
32 To be fair, I don't think anyone foresaw the injuries that would hit the pitching staff the way they did. Unit could just as easily be on the DL with a pulled hamstring.
2007-05-16 08:26:48
39.   Deadhorse
35 Thank you!

Can't a dead horse get any rest around here?

But while I'm up, anybody wanna talk about the backup catcher situation?

2007-05-16 08:27:06
40.   OldYanksFan
32 A 'fragile Moose'... as opposed to a young, healthy Randy Johnson? How did 'fragile Moose' compare to RJ in the 2 years they played on the same team, against the same teams?

2yrs avg Moose 188 4.00
2yrs avg Randy 215 4.40

Randy is 5 years older, has bad knees and a bad back. Looks to me like RJ pitches more innings, with slightly lesser results.
RJ would have been making $6m more then Moose?

2007-05-16 08:29:42
41.   OldYanksFan
39 Funny!
2007-05-16 08:31:34
42.   baileywalk
Instead, they took Ohlendorf, who has been so abysmal at Triple-A that DeSalvo, Phil Hughes, Chase Wright, Darrell Rasner and Jeff Karstens have all gotten opportunity instead of him.
----

Joel Sherman is a know-it-all who thinks he's the only one who can evaluate talent. There's no move made that he doesn't think he could have improved. He's a total gasbag.

While I would much rather have gotten Owings instead of the package we did (if it's true that Owings was on the table and Cashman didn't take him, it's a bad, bad move by Cash) his criticism here is nonsensical.

Rasner and Karstens both have big-league experience AND both already pitched for the Yankees. Obviously they are ranked higher than Ohlendorf.

At the time of Wright's promotion, Ohlendorf wasn't pitching abysmally -- Wright was just pitching lights-out (and was on the 40-man, which made things easier).

It shouldn't be a surprise Hughes was promoted before Ohlendorf -- he is, after all, the best pitching prospect in the system.

DeSalvo had a 1 ERA, and is apparently a favorite of Joe Torre. Again, no surprise he was promoted first, either.

Again, Owings would have been better than the trio of players we got, but Sherman once again makes an idiotic statement to defend his point.

2007-05-16 08:34:41
43.   Jim Dean
33 Hey, you're continuing it.

What scouting reports on A-Gon have you seen? The bastardized versions in the press? Who they themselves are writing what they heard? Meanwhile, he sucked in spring training.

Sanchez I had no problem with and especially not with Whelan and Claggett.

34 I agree with everything you say. The same "we can't get a fair deal" has kept Manny in Sox for how many years?

36 It's scheduled at 7pm. Anyone know if it's been moved to accomodate ESPN?

37 That last question is one I've been asking myself for years now. The greatest trick he's pulled is working for the NY Yankees for ten years and has never been held accountable. That in itself is impressive. The media he treats well. But the fans? I've never understood all the love for him.

Don't get me wrong, he's a good GM and the Yanks could do much worse (Isaiah). But they could also do better. Me, I just wish he did his job better. Between 2006 and 2007, I've been much less than inspired. Now with Villone and Vizccaino instead of Henn and Britton, I'm afraid it's back to the old logic.

Cashman has been learning, but not quick enough for my taste. And Mghjfdokhgn endures.

2007-05-16 08:39:49
44.   Simone
39 You are welcome. Hilarious.
2007-05-16 08:39:49
45.   Jim Dean
39 Word is the BUC situation has had Cashman asking around. So that horse ain't dead yet. Though Nieves should be taken out back and shot. With Cairo too.

40 The point was only that if Unit has been "crapping out", so has Moose. And Moose is still on the team and still getting hurt. Unit had major back surgery and has already tossed almost twice as many innings as Moose (who had no surgery) and at the same level of effectiveness.

2007-05-16 08:45:11
46.   Shaun P
39 Let me be the first to apologize for all the beatings I gave you over the offseason. I am truly sorry, and I hope you don't think my post in 9 was yet another lash with the whip. I was just trying to point out that evaluating anything, without proper context, and in a such a small sample size too, is foolish.

Then again, that may be its own dead horse.

I read earlier today that Willie Mays started his career by going 2 for 25. Some of you would have wanted him sent back down, and Whitey Lockman in the OF if this was 1951 and the site was called "Manhattan Banter". Sheesh.

36 Not sure, but I'll bet the Tampa Yankees site has it. 7PM. Ought to be quite an event. Might be more fun to watch than the Yanks-Mets game, if only to see Tabata and some of the other kids.

2007-05-16 08:49:59
47.   Deadhorse
Slightly off topic:

Whatever happened to Witasick and Wohlers?

Are they still on the 40 man roster?

2007-05-16 08:53:25
48.   yankz
43 You're right, thanks, I'm done. Some people just cannot see two sides of something. I'm probably one of them myself.
2007-05-16 08:58:34
49.   Zack
Jim, Jackson and Ohlie are hardly clogging up the AAA rotation, have you looked at it lately? THey have Colter Bean starting they are so desperate for pitchers. Colter Bean! Their closer Pope started yesterday, the closer!!

With Ohli and Karstens injuried, Rasner, DeSalvo and Hughes up with the club, they have called up Wright, and have Jackson and Clippard left. The S-WB pitching roster is like a ghost town. Heck they brought in a 38 year old guy just to fill up a roster spot. Obviously Marquez isn't ready yet, and his #'s, while good at AA, the gb/fb don't seem to show a pitcher witha good sinker, which is troubling.

But more importantly, they need to call kennedy's butt up to AA already and promote someone, anyone up to AAA to be a warm body. If by the end of the season they can have a AA rotation of Joba, Kennedy, Smith, Marquez, Horne, all of whom will be set to start at AAA next year and contribute to the majors, that will be perfecto...

Oh, and 26, the Sheff trade and the Unit trade were two different, non-comparable situations. The Sheff trade was a "lets get what we can for him since he's gone anyway" trade, and they knew that Sanchez was a risk. He'll be 26 next year, same age as DeSlavo is now, so don't say thats too old.

As for the Rocket deal, yeah, perhaps they could have gotten Owings, perhaps not. I'd say more than likely not since just as many sources are quoted as having said thats who Cashman wanted. Heck, the Sox "could" have gotten Jake Peavy last yer for Mike Lowell, but somehow that didn't happen either.

So, in order to save our poor friend in 39 , let's discuss who they WILL in fact have pitch that extra day. Moose is a possibility on short rest, so is Clippard (but of course thats one more AAA arm gone), BP by committee is a possibility as well...Or I guess Igawa could be called up for a game...

2007-05-16 09:03:48
50.   Zack
Or, to change the topic again, I love this headline from ESPN:
"Barry Bond's Brother Upset with Aaron over snub."

I mean, my God, that's Bobby Bonds Jr! And he's defending his brother!

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-05-16 09:13:03
51.   Jim Dean
49 Bean started because it was a double header. Besides, where do Rasner and DeSalvo go in three weeks?

I'm guessing Chase Wright on Sunday.

2007-05-16 09:18:16
52.   Jim Dean
46 You're not comparing Willie Mays to Wil Nieves, are you?
2007-05-16 09:24:40
53.   Zack
51 Double header or not, that should grossly alarm and worry all the Bean haters. This was a AAA rotation that at the start of the year had too many guys. Than injuries to both clubs struck hardcore. The curse of Marty Miller I tells ya!

Wright isn't a bad call, I'd rather see them go Clippard just to give him the experience, but I bet you're right

2007-05-16 09:28:32
54.   Simone
50 I didn't even know that Barry Bonds had a brother. ESPN is quick to publish everything and everyone attacking Bonds so the least they could do is publish the one article with Bobby Jr. defending his brother.
2007-05-16 09:36:55
55.   Chyll Will
48 Flounders are like that, too. Uncle Woodrow says their delicious (I prefer tunafish with black pepper myself, yummy)

Deadhorse, what about that blown call by the ump last week that cost the Yanks the game, eh? If you could get in touch with Conspiracy Theorist and ask him/her how much that call has affected the Yanks' currently dispirited play, I'd really appreciate it (I could use the extra scratch...)

2007-05-16 09:49:46
56.   Deadhorse
51 I'm guessing Villone gets the start on Sunday.

55 Yeah, Chyll. I got flogged more than the ump after that blown call.

And I'm getting flogged somethin awful today thanks to a malodorous New York Observer piece comparing Katie Couric's struggles at CBS to A-Rod's on the Yankees. (deadhorses don't provide links)

Dang, it ain't easy bein' a deadhorse.

Anybody gonna ask me about my cameo in "The Godfather", or can I finally get some shut-eye up in this here Banter joint?

2007-05-16 09:51:44
57.   Chyll Will
54 He has two younger brothers (Ricky and Bobby Jr, who played 11 years in the minors before retiring in 2002) and a sister (Cheryl Dugan). Good for Bobby Jr; I like that his family supports him no matter what. I have no comment about anything else regarding that for now.
2007-05-16 09:57:54
58.   Chyll Will
56 I was gonna ask what it was like working with Brando, but I'll let you and the flounders sleep. You better go now, because if yankz orders any more Taco Bell, you're in for a long night... >;)
2007-05-16 10:03:15
59.   jkay
Overhead photos of the new Stadium.....

http://www.curbed.com/archives/2007/05/16/georges_bronx_hole_gets_filled.php

2007-05-16 10:05:34
60.   JL25and3
50 I understand that Tommy Aaron has issued a statement criticizing Bobby Bonds, Jr.
2007-05-16 10:15:08
61.   Deadhorse
58 Brando? Meh.

Alex Karras. Now there's an actor.

The stuff we did together in Blazing Saddles.... The scene where Mongo punches me out was all his idea, but that rat Mel Brooks gets all the credit.

Anyway, I'd take Mongo over Brando any day.

2007-05-16 10:19:23
62.   Chyll Will
60 The McCoys have a rare inherited disease causing rage that fueled the Hatfield-McCoys blood feud for over two centuries. I wonder if this might end up the same way? And if so, should we care enough to make a movie?
2007-05-16 10:22:12
63.   Bama Yankee
61 I also loved you in this movie:

http://tinyurl.com/3667rb

Could you do us all a favor and answer this one for us:
"Who is Karim Garcia?"

2007-05-16 10:23:47
64.   Chyll Will
62 Or should I be asking you 61 that question?
2007-05-16 10:27:45
65.   Chyll Will
63 (!) Schweeet...
2007-05-16 10:30:08
66.   cult of basebaal
lineups are in (from LOHUD)

YANKEES
Damon CF
Jeter SS
Rodriguez 3B
Posada C
Matsui LF
Phelps 1B
Abreu RF
Cabrera LF
Cairo 2B
Mussina RHP (2-1, 4.76)

Pregame chatter: The Yankkes have not picked a starter for Sunday. Joe Torre said bringing back Chien-Ming Wang on short rest is a possibility. The other alternative seems to be Class AAA lefty Chase Wright. Mussina is not an option. … Kei Igawa has been scheduled to pitch for Class A Tampa on Saturday. He has changed his delivery and reportedly has a better fastball as a result.

interesting news on igawa, though i'm more interested in hearing he's improved his control, since i've thought his stuff has been good enough in the outings i've seen of his to be a successful starter, but his command his been wildly inconsistent

2007-05-16 10:34:03
67.   Deadhorse
63 Thanks. We were going to do a sequel called "Dead Horse On A Ryder" but my agents sucked, and the lameass producers couldn't convince Winona to, ahem, horse around with me on camera.
Of course my career hasn't suffered a bit, and the skinny little witch gets busted for shoplifting. Hilarious!

Oy, the Karim Garcia question again, 'Bama?

2007-05-16 10:45:14
68.   Chyll Will
67 Have you spoken with Scott Proctor recently? 66 You'd Torre would see something in this fellah here for Sunday, and I'm sure George would approve... oops, they're saving you for the Kentucky Derby, right? Sorry...
2007-05-16 10:57:37
69.   Bama Yankee
67 Good stuff, Mr. Horse.
Wouldn't your sequel have to feature one of these guys:
http://tinyurl.com/2pjncb
http://tinyurl.com/3xjme2
http://tinyurl.com/2o3xfg
2007-05-16 11:42:37
70.   OldYanksFan
can someone PLEASE teach these guys how to bunt!!

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