19 GS, 5W, 8L, ~4.60ERA, $40,000,000

Just release him. There's no reason to spend a nickel arranging rehab for this guy.

If Pavano isn't the worst free agent signing in MLB history, you can definitely see it from there.

I think the Red Sox secretly paid money to Pavano to sign with the Yankees. Just like we had Ramiro Mendoza sign with the Red Sox. Karma's a bitch.

1 I agree. Let him handle it.

Chan Ho Park to Texas was a much worse signing - it really clogged Texas' payroll.

Darren Dreifort wasn't a primo pickup either. Neagle and Hampton to the Rockies were bad and I'd say even Arod was bad from Texas' viewpoint since they're still paying him.

Pavano's results have been terrible but he's not the worst imo.

Pavano: 19 starts over 2+ seasons, representing 5% of the Yanks starts over that time. He's also eaten up 5% of their total payroll over that time period. By the time he's done (I'm assuming he doesn't pitch again), he'll have made less than 3% of the Yankees starts over 4 seasons, chewing up a full 5% of their payroll.

Here's a good comp. Pascual Perez. 17 starts over 2 years (5% of the Yanks' games) and swallowed a whopping 14% of their total payroll over that time period.

And he wasn't even the highest paid Perez on the team! The Yanks shelled out over $15M to Melido back in the day.

Are there no contractual obligations towards rehabiliation? I don't know much about the ins-and-outs of your typical MLB contract, but it seems hard to believe that they could just release him due to injury...but if they can, I's support it in a heartbeat. Hell with this guy.

Was Giambi injured yesterday? He left in the 7th inning I think...

Moving forward, the Yankees should always put an injury clause in the contracts they give to pitchers. Too bad this isn't the NFL; non-guaranteed contracts rock!

(7) No he was taken out for defensive purposes.

They Yanks should get "Clockwork Orange" on Pavano. Strap him in a chair and force him to watch the Curt Schilling bloody sock game on a continous loop. Don't unstrap him until he's ready to pitch.

On a serious note, I think Bruney ended Sosa's bid for 600 HR last night. Sosa never regained his swing after his 2004 beaning. I wouldn't be suprised if he just calls it quits.

11 Slightly off topic, Marty Miller or not, smart money's on Farnsworth at 15-1 in the Derby tomorrow.

7 9 Giambi left with leg cramps. That explains the bizarro running mistake: he pulled up with cramps as he rounded second.

I can't find anything, either in the old CBA or in the Uniform Player's Contract, that would require the Yankees to pay for Pavano's rehab if they released him. That doesn't mean it's not there, or in the set of organizational MLB rules that we're not privy to, it just means I didn't see it anywhere.

But if the Yankees have insurance on Pavano, that would presumably pay all or part of his salary - but not if they released him, so it would end up costing them more. If they don't have insurance on him, then they were downright foolish.

No pitcher's going to sign a contract with an injury clause.

Yesterday we saw another example of Torre's inability to "spread the love" among his relievers. A doubleheader followed by an extended period without an off day always poses risk to the bullpen. Throw in the facts that Moose is making his first start back from rehab and that Igawa, Rasner and DeSalvo are hardly among the inning eaters, and you have a crisis in the making. The Yanks were counting on the usually-efficient Pettitte to go deep, but Andy labored through 107 pitches in 6 innings (mlb.com called that "efficient"). Fortunately, the team had prepared for exactly this situation by recalling Chris Britton for a single game. But Joe wouldn't trust a one run lead to a rookie, so he turned to Vizcaino to give up the game-tying homer, and then used Farns and Mo in both games (I'm trying to figure out why Farns can't go back-to-back innings or back-to-back days but can pitch in two games on one day -- he gave up a homer, so I guess he can't). If Wang doesn't go 8 innings on Saturday (or if a couple of games go extra innings), we could see another bullpen meltdown.

(9) If anyone could be taken out of the DH slot for defensive purposes, Jason is our man

Man, what's with all the negativity. They swept the Rangers!

And Meat is going to recover, just in time for another contract. Don't dismiss his passion so easily.

15 roflmao

14 Indeed. Even while reveling in the sweep, I couldn't ignore T's bullpen mis-management.

Mo Vaughn wasn't exactly a great signing either. I believe he sat for 2 years?

Question: If Pavs has TJ surgery, is he ready to pitch in Sept. 08?

If the guy REALLY needs this, then he has had serious arm problems for a while. Should this have been diagnosed a year ago? Did his butt injury get in the way of diagnosing an arm injury?

Are there are different levels of TJ surgery? Different re-coup times? Anyway, it seems like Glass Carl is history, and we at the Banter won't have him to kick around anymore.

Question: If was posted here that 3 innings every three days is easier on a RP then 1 inning every day. I understand the warm up time would be a factor. Is this 'concept' 100% agreed upon in the MLB community? Is it being debated?

And IF it IS considered a fact, which Torre goes against with a passion, should Guidry, or Kerrigan, or Cashman, or any number of paid employees bring this up in a meeting with Torre? If Torre is TRULY screwing up big time, doesn't the Yankees FO have some responsibility in not developing policies that Torre needs to follow?

Torre is the manager. Not the General Manager, not a partner, not the Owner. If Torre's practices are SO OBVIOUSLY F**ked up, how come the FO isn't involved and fixing it?

1 I would be very surprised if the contract doesn't include some sort of responsibility for injuries that occur while on the job. I don't think we gain anything or lose anything by cutting him.

14 I think the Yankees really had to win that DH yesterday, so I can excuse Joe for using everyone (some twice). Having said that, I won't excuse him if he goes back to tired arms over the weekend. He now HAS to let Igawa and Wang extend themselves and trust Britton/Bean/Meyers in a potentially big spot. You can't save the bullpen when you have some wins staring you in the face, but that doesn't mean you can drive it into the ground. Hopefully, Torre has learned from April and will not immediately signal for Proctor/Viz at the first sign of trouble tonight.

1 I agree...if Pavano does need TJ, I would release him on the spot. However...

13 The CBA does say: "Disability directly resulting from injury sustained in the course and within the scope of his employment under this contract shall not impair the right of the Player to receive his full salary for the period of such disability or for the season in which the injury was sustained (whichever period is shorter), together with the reasonable medical and hospital expenses incurred by reason of the injury and during the term of this contract or for a period of up to two years from the date of initial treatment for such injury, whichever period is longer, but only upon the express prerequisite conditions that (a) written notice of such injury, including the time, place, cause and nature of the injury, is served upon and received by the Club within twenty days of the sustaining of said injury and (b) the Club shall have the right to designate the doctors and hospitals furnishing such medical and hospital services. Failure to give such notice shall not impair the rights of the Player, as herein set forth, if the Club has actual knowledge of such injury. All workmen's compensation payments received by the Player as compensation for loss of income for a specific period during which the Club is paying him in full, shall be paid over by the Player to the Club. Any other disability may be ground for suspending or terminating this contract."

There are two interesting things here:

(1) It looks like the Yankees (or their insurance provider) would be responsible for his medical treatment even if released as he has a guaranteed contract.
(2) Based on "b", it looks as if the Yankees did have cause for a grievance pursuant to Pavano's car crash inflicted injuries from last season.

18 That's an interesting question and I don't think it has ever been seriously debated in sabermetric or scout circles.

Extending your question further, if it is "Easier" to pitch more innings in fewer appearances (ala the Goose), than fewer innings in more appearance (ala today's closer), then is the mantra about how the modern closer doesn't really compare to the workhorse of the 1970s/1980s really just hogwash?

18 If we're considering the possible window of recovery from surgery in the context of Carl Pavano, I think it's safe to assume that he'll be at most distant end of the recovery spectrum.

Which means we will never see Carl Pavano on a mound in a Yankees uniform ever again.

20 How insane would it be if Pavano made a workmen's comp claim. I'd drive down to Florida, do donuts on his yard and beat the crap out his mailbox with a bat.

22 I'm just going to take the 'act like a 5 year old approach' and state the following:

Pavano is a caca-poo-poo-head!

22 I wouldn't be suprised if injured players are required to submit workmen's comp claims being that they get turned over to the Club. Having said that, how can you file a claim if you are being paid in full?

20 Britton is no longer available. He was recalled from Scranton for Game 1 only and was then optioned to make room for Moose.

The point is that, except when a reliever is mired in an obvious slump, the difference between relievers is very slight. If Vizcaino had a better chance than Britton of holding down the Rangers for one inning, his advantage was so marginal that it did not justify the risk of burning out the bullpen.

Pavano no longer exists for me. His salary is a sunk cost, with no hope of any return on it. One of the worst FA signings in modern times.

Just forget about him and concentrate on which rookie is going to win the #5 slot.

Interesting question: Who goes down to make room for Rasner and DeSalvo? My guess is Bean and Henn. Ironically, Henn has been among the most consistent relievers, but (a) he has an option remaining (otherwise, Myers is more expendable) and (b) whoever among Rasner and DeSalvo does not get the #5 role can pick up Henn's long-man role for 10 days (or until someone else goes on the DL).

24 My initial request is a stupid thing to say. He's a qualified worker according to the standards of the New York Yankees, and the Yankees should not hinder his ability to work. Even if he is a delicate tropical flower.

Yanks really got taken for a ride with this guy. Blew it every step of the way. Especially step one.

Whatever. I'll just go do the donuts on his lawn.

27 Henn isn't going anywhere, that's a silly idea. He's been one of the better relievers. And he's not a long-man, he just can serve that role in emergencies, a la Villone. Myers is here to stay, too.

Jose Veras could be transferred to the 60 day DL, or Colter Bean sent down. Also, the Yanks official site has Humberto Sanchez on the 15 day DL, but I was sure he was put on the 60 for Hughes. If not, he's an option, too.

18 My reason for thinking so is that starters pitch a whole lot more innings than relievers. So, I hypothesize, each inning in a multi-inning appearance must produce less wear on an arm than each inning in a short appearance.

21 I think this would be very hard to study sabermetrically. You could look at the total number of innings pitched by long relievers in a career vs. short relievers, but there would obviously be a lot of counfounding factors: the type of pitcher who gets a job as a long reliever is sure to be a very different type from, say, Mo, and you wouldn't be able to tell whether the difference in type was what was responsible for the difference in durability.

27 I assume there will only be one move, not two. Rasner will be activated to pitch on Sunday and then will be sent down after the game and DeSalvo will take Rasner's spot and then stay with the team, as Torre has mentioned that the Yankees want DeSalvo to assume the #5 starter role.

28 I'll throw in some gas money for ya there.

30 It's not so simple as number of innings = more or less wear and tear. Starters prepare differently, they throw more kinds of pitches, they have consistent schedules (probably the most important). Someone go ask John Smoltz.

31 I guess that that's a possiblity, especially considering Torre's irrational distrust of Rasner. Joe's quick hook in the Cleveland game (4-1/3 innings, 81 pitches, 1 R, 4 H, 1 HR, 2 BB, 3 K) precipitated the bullpen meltdown and 7 game slide.

What if Rasner pitches lights-out on Sunday? I'd say that he would then stick as the #5. The team could then either (a) option DeSalvo after Monday and bring up T.J. Beam or (b) send Henn or Bruney for a 10-day tour of Scranton while DeSalvo plays the #12-man role.

Here's a fun question for the rule book lawyers: Chris Britton was optioned between the games of yesterday's doubleheader. Does yesterday get counted among the 10 days for his minimum stay?

Don't know if anyone is listening on this thread any more, but I'm still trying to figure out the DeSalvo over Rasner thing (i.e. by starting Rasner on Sunday and DeSalvo on Monday, the team is indicating that they want to keep DeSalvo, and not Rasner around for another start). Rasner seems to be labled as an 80-pitch guy. In his last Scranton start, he pitched 5 shutout innings and was still lifted after 82 pitches. I can understand why the Yankees want more durability in a starter. But DeSalvo, even though he goes 95-100 pitches a game, generally makes it through only 5-6 innings because of his control problems. In Scranton, DeSalvo has gotten away with 13 walks in 25.2 innings (more than one every two innings). I am not so sure that major league hitters will be so forgiving. Then again, if any hitters will be forgiving, they are the free-swinging Mariners, whom DeSalvo will face in his first two starts. If he stays around for a third start (assuming the Yanks skip his turn where possible), it will against the Red Sox. Yikes. Swap him for Rasner.

5 At least Pascual was damn entertaining to watch on the field with his holding the runner on between his legs and his slooooooooow curve.