Gotta disagree mightily with your first paragraph, Cliff.

First, until Bossman is in a casket, I don't underestimate that man. And knowing a little about diseased brains (mostly from having one), lucid moments are common in senility. Depending on the etiology, it could be different progressions and ones where his public appearances are more limited than his private thoughts. My point: I don't expect anything either, but I don't count that man out, at least not yet.

And on the pitching front, for all the off-season moves, we've seen just Vizcaino in NY. Everybody else was already in the system. And I don't think that Dorf or Jackson will be ready this season and, of course, neither will Sanchez. Britton, and maybe Whelan, could be nice mid-season upgrades though. So I'm not quite clear on the benfits you speak of.

Otherwise, please explain that change in attitude. Because if I remember correctly guys like Karstens, Rasner, and even Steven White were in the organization last year when Erickson and Ponson were signed. And so were Bean and Beam.

All the woes and ows, new month new start.

Let's hope for a fresh start!

1 Don't take this personally JD, but can we PLEASE, pretty please, skip the Cashman good/bad debate for one day. There's a lot more the Cliff's post than the Cashman/roster stuff, how about we all talk about the Rangers, or the Yanks players or something. This dead horse is so tiresome.

How about this, Sammy Sosa is batting FOURTH!?!?! holy crap!

OR

Anyone see that Hardball times piece about Hughes mechanics? Think there's anything to be worried about? Do the Yanks have any sort of development/coaching for Hughes & the other young guns aside from Guidry? Would be unhappy if once the kid makes it to the majors he loses access to the development stuff. Think Nardi will still keep a close eye on the Lad?

1 You know Jim, I just typed out this long response to you, pointing out where I see all sorts of benefits re: the offseason front.

Then I realized that you and I have had this exact same discussion on this exact same topic since, oh, mid-November or so.

Frankly, I'm tired of having it, so I deleted my response, and typed this instead. If you (and everyone else who reads the Banter) don't see the benefits of the offseason moves by now, after 6 months of (what I hope were intelligent) discussions, you never will, and nothing I type will ever convince you.

You can keep bringing it up as often as you like. For myself, I'm done responding.

3 Sorry, mate, I just disagree with sentences that include "finally executing his own vision for this team" and yet end with mentioning Scott Erickson and Sidney Ponson, both of who were pitching for this team less than one year ago. There are encouraging signs (though even Bean could have been on the team last year) but I just can't see the dramtic "change in attitiude". Maybe I need glasses?

3 I like all the video-breakdown of pitcher mechanics' pieces that I've read, but I wonder how accurate they are. (I haven't read the Hughes piece yet.) I'm no pitching expert, so I can't say, but Hughes hasn't even thrown 400 innings of professional ball yet. It seems a little early to be making predictions about his future from so small an amount of data. It'd be a totally different matter if his mechanics were widely regarded as dangerous, but the opposite is true.

4 Name the off-season benefits, Shaun.

Is it the pitcher that got Tommy Johned?
Or the two struggling to get out AAA hitters?
Or the overworked fellow in the Yankee pen?

Britton has been encouraging.
As has Whelan.

The results of this off-season remain to be determined.

5 7, so i guess your answer is, "no, i shall continue the beatings"...

Lineup from Pete Abe:
YANKEES
Abreu RF
Jeter SS
Giambi DH
Rodriguez 3B
Matsui LF
Posada C
Cano 2B
Cabrera CF
Mientkiewicz 1B
Franchise RHP

Interesting to see Abreu leading off. Still no Phelps, sadly.

I think the Abreu move is a good one. I'll give Joe a pat on the back for that.

Every time Minky hits a three run tater, he extends this little trip through hell a bit longer.

Melky and Cano are huge sources of concern for me right now.

But at least we've got great pitching. Oh? What's that? We DON'T have great pitching? Our rotation is a disaster and our bullpen is in shambles, you say?

Oh. Well then, I'm going to light myself on fire.

8 Wow. Abreu leading off? I thought he hated to be anywhere but third.

8 I'm ecstatic to see Bobby leading off, I think he makes for the best leadoff guy on the team, inability to bunt excluded. The fact that Giambi is now batting third is so-so, but I'll take it.

I am very impressed with Abreu leading off. It makes total sense for now. On the other hand, totally unimpressed with Minky still playing. But as Schteeve already wrote, the tater gave him another month at least...

3 I read the article. It was an interesting read.

I do, however, question the merits of breaking down the kid's mechanics in a game where:

1: he knew he was pitching for 1 inning, and could reach back for extra on every single pitch and

2: it was his major league debut.

Both games have several reasons why Hughes' mechanics would be off from what they typically are.

I would be more interested, I think, in a similar article that broke down his mechanics comparing a typical AA start from 2006 and his most recent AAA start. That, I think, would be more telling.

10 Surely he'd take leadoff than batting 8th anyday...just ask his teammate hitting cleanup.

Abreu batting leadoff?
Brilliant!
(I guess Torre was geeting tired of the Fuckin' horseshit?)

Of course, the one time Torre fills out a lineup according to the good sense of high OBP at the top, the OBP machine (Abreu) is a bit rusty.

Did someone make sure and Torre hasn't been replaced with Bill James when we weren't looking?

16I hope not. Bill James is an arrogant dickhead and a Yankee hater, f- him and his VORP. I'd much rather have Torre.

17 Ummmm, or his methods have revolutionized the game, with influence on such people as Gene Michael, architect of the 90s Yankees dynasty.

also interesting that MKZ is batting 9th, AFTER Melky - even after Melky's struggles this year. I realize it might be to break up the lefties at the bottom of the order, but maybe it's a sign of less confidence in MKZ.

a boy can dream

8 Torre reads the Banter...that was the exact lineup I suggested two days ago. Either that or Joe and I of like minds, which, considering how hard I've been on him, would be rather ironic.

18 Has Gene Michael said he's been influenced by Bill James? Wasn't Michaels' philosophy to get a bunch of high OBP guys in the batting order - hence his trading for Paul O'Neil. I don't find where you can attribute that to James, or any one person in particular.

I'm not a fan of James, I understand that people like to look at him as some sort of prophet but not me. I understand his place in history, but I just think he's a major c*cksucker.

21 Gene Michael has been famous for scoffing at the notion of James/Beane/etc. being pioneers of OBP, instead arguing that a "walk is as good as a hit" has been a baseball axiom for ages.

Can we lay off some of the profanity?

21 I guess my point was that there was not much mention of OBP in team construction prior to the rise of SABR, and then Michael quietly did just that. I suppose they could have come to the conclusion independently, but James' work is the first public research and evidence proving that batting average and RBIs are terrible ways to judge baseball players.

I suppose I could have chosen another SABR member to accuse of kidnapping Torre; James is just the most famous. Steven Goldman, maybe?

I'm not sure I like the lineup. There's really a black hole at the bottom of the lineup, and as it stands now, it rolls over to Abreu batting leadoff.

I don't expect Torre to do anything radical, but some of the new stat-head lineup analysis is interesting. They recommend that you bat your worst hitter 8th, not 9th, and put a leadoff-type hitter 9th. And the guy batting third is supposed to be average. Average in BA and SLG. Supposedly, this maximizes runs scored.

23 Steve Goldman works for me.

22 Are the kids still up?

24 Hmm. But isn't the advantage of that construction very small over a lineup that is simply in reverse order of OBP?

At the very least, this lineup is way better than one that has Minky batting second.

25 It's 7:45, so yes, the kids are still up. They even read this blog sometimes.

20 Willy? Willy Torre? Is that you?

Aww, FSN feed on EI. Lame. Not sure I've ever heard these announcers before.

27 So you can tell them that sometimes adults say some stupid things, like cursing.

Crud, mlb.tv has the rangers feed...

1 Read the name of the poster, and then ignored the rest. Going to do that from now on. Jim is not balanced in his conclusions. He may turn out to be right, but that would be happenstance rather than solid analysis.

I come to the Banter for reasoned, solid analysis. I just don't get that from Jim.

Sorry Jim.

Anyone know the results of Damon's visit to the back doc yesterday? Sorry if the question has been asked before.

BOOOOOOO! How dare you get traded after signing the biggest contract in history with our team!!! BOOOOOO!

I love how Texas fans pretend they care about A-Rod, or baseball for that matter...

33 From Lohud: Pregame chatter: Johnny Damon said he received four chiropractic treatments from Sunday night to this morning in Orlando and is feeling much better. But he could be out of the lineup for a day or two as they want to make sure he is feeling better

13 I read the article in detail and liked the analysis, but I realize it wasn't complete until I read the above. Very good points.

I saw Hughes pitch in ST in 06 and was very impressed with him, especially his presence on the mound. There was just something about him that seemed "right". I am not an expert in mechanics of pitchers, and the article was really enlightening about all the stuff he gets right.

I wonder about the durability statement, thought. What makes Carlos write that?

36 Thank you sire.

32 Easy...I think Jim is very provocative. Sometimes he belabors a point, but I usually enjoy his perspective. Either way, if you are going to ignore someone, there's no need to call him out. I'm with OldYanksFan...let's keep this an amiable forum.

That was quick.

39 Feedback understood, accepted, and taken to heart. My mouth is shut on such related issues from now on. Thanks.

Boston is up 4-1.

37 Some of the prospect watchers have shown concerns about Hughes' durability, but I agree I haven't seen much discussion as to why. Some point to Hughes being shut down in 2005 due to elbow tendonitis, but one prospect profile I read actually had "injury history" as a weakness for Hughes, which seemed a bit laughable. Though I guess when I root for a team that signed Carl Pavano, even Evil Kinievel's injury history would seem minor.

I think this is a huge start...if Hughes has a good game, it could set the tone for May. If he bombs out, it will throw the team back into panic mode. This should be an interesting night.

I HATE THAT BAT FLIP!

Nice bat flip on the walk there Kenny...

"Another stat that they've come up with is... WHIP." -- Rangers Announcer.

Also, walking Kenny Lofton is not a good thing.

Lead off walk is not the best of signs.

OMG, he walked Kenny! You bastard!

;-)

Hey, what a difference having Jeter makes... last start, those dribblers were singles with girly-armed Cairo over there.

Textbook

Nice poise from the rookie...it looked like he drew the glove back.

Um, nice recovery. And nice pitch placement, at least according to game day.

I think that's why scouts love Hughes.

Good start for Hughes. Quick DP

Well, then.

(fans self)

Is it hot in here, or is it just Phil?

Wow, Hughes just made Teixiera look FOOLISH!

Awesome

Damn.

Please God, let every inning from Phil be like this.

Okay, signing off. Will watch the game in silence.

Three straight, nasty changeups for Hughes to Tex, who never even saw a FB...I guess the changeup is coming along, eh?

32 Doesn't MLB.TV always have the home team's feed?

Loe is 6-7, good grief!

It's Opposite Field Day!

now THAT was a weird play...

Its nice seeing someone else playing Keystone kops.

Hey, a productive out!

61 I heard 6'8

ha. Ha. HA! Clearly, Doug's bellyfullaguts got him that ROE.

Nice to see the other team look bad...

2 RBIs in a row from Melky and Eyechart. That's good.

The Stink has contributed two games in a row!

It looks like Texas has been watching the Yankees' 2007 training video.

I really cannot stand other team announcers. They all just sound the same, and talk about the same things every damn game.

72 I feel you on that, it's aweful. even my wife (the sox fan) notices it, and she rarely watches a game with me... yes, we know Georgie doesn't wear batting gloves, nor does mink... and remember last year with the change to Moose's changeup grip - they went on and on with that all year!

I need help. I am using a PC and MLB.TV is acting out again by buffering every few seconds. I've already changed the connection speed, it didn't help. What other settings should I change?

Lets see how Hughes reaacts to the long inning

75 Well.

Jeez, talk about nasty

74 you could try restarting your computer and/or cable/DSL modem

I just got home, and maybe someone's commented on this before, but...

Phil Hughes has the worst-fitting pants I've seen on a major leaguer in a long time.

OMG NICE CURVE!

Woah, now that was a nasty curve

79 Nope, you are the first, but it does seem to give him "baggy ass syndrome." Manny has pretty badly fitting pants too...

Two walks already for Hughes

What was that about Hughes being a flyball pitcher, Mr. Chris Gomez?

That should read "saggy ass syndrome"

Two walks and two immediate DPs

Posada has to make sure he doesn't fall in love with the curve...it's working now, but I think it'd be even more effective working off the fastball (according to my inner pitching caoch).

79 ya, he's missed badly on a couple pitches, but is in total command it would seem. 2 deuces don't hurt.

maybe he has trouble with waste pitches - he's just so used to being right on the corners ;)

Wow. Two double plays. 24 pitches in 2 innings.

Wow.

73 It's also annoying how they all have to be positive about their team and bring up pointless things.

Like last inning when Posada singled they were praising Wilkerson for keeping him to a single and how great of a defender he is for picking up a ball. Then he goes on to botch the next play.

I missed most of that inning. How did Hughes look?

Rangers are paying trubute to Bobby Murcer

I didn't know Bobby was back! Sweet! Now I'm really sad we're not getting the YES feed...

57 of 59 for Jeter. Wow.

Hey Murcer looks great!

The speed of the infield is ridiculous, which makes me wonder if that's not partly to blame for Young's very poor sabermetric defensive standing.

88 Roger that! was thinking the same thing. I gave them a pass on it, cuz i liked wilkerson when he was with the Nats - though he's sorta sucked since then.

And now the FSN guys are getting hard-ons about the YES booth. haha

82 If he pitches like that, he can borrow pants from Pascual Perez for all I care.

89 Philthy curveball to get Victor Diaz swinging, then put a few curves too low or too high to Blalock. Then a DP to get Wilkerson and end the inning.

It's a shame Bobby Murcer is in the booth and MLB.TV's got Texas feed even though they are sticking to their "home-game" feed, it's still too bad.

it get's worth, they said "that thud [as giambi gets plunked] is the ball coming off the body armor" when it's actually Giambino's bare elbow... tools

I really hate the Texas announcers. I remember last year, when Jeter hit a triple, they sounded like he killed their puppy. When Bubba robbed one of their lefty hitters, they went on and on about what a terrible shame it was, how the guy rarely got hits off lefties, let alone Randy Johnson, and Bubba had to ruin it. And when their guys were hustling down the line, they were saying things like "Go! Go! Go!"

Just seemed really unprofessional. You don't hear our announcers saying things like that.

hmmm.... didn't WE blame ARod for global warming?

96 Does he get the coke in the backpocket too?

Loading the bases with no outs?

GOOD.

78 Thanks, but it didn't help, sigh...

I think the announcer just yadda yadded over the good parts...

Ok, the lego joke was kind of funny.

But, has anyone noticed, I don't think A-rod has hit a ball in the air since that warning track shot back in the Saturday game.

101 Correct, I recall that as well.

I don't have Sirius Satelitte Radio but I've heard that you can choose between the Home and Away announcers. Is that true? I have XM and I'm going through the same crap you guys are who are watching on MLB.TV

105 He mentioned the bisque...

Excellent job, Offense...

Keep em coming.

HIDEKI! HONOR!

I'll take it.

108 Yes, you can do that on MLB Audio as well. Not that getting to hear Sterling and Waldman is any special treat, though..

108 I was under the impression that Sirius didn't have MLB games.

104 Run the speed test that MLB.com offers...it could be that your download speed has dropped below 400kbps.

Jorge!!!!!!!!!!!!

Of course XM doesn't have that..

Here's a good question for everyone.. who do you think has the worst announcers? My vote goes to the Tampa Bay guys. They are just retarded. They just whine whine whine bitch bitch bitch the entire time

Jorge=the man

JORGE!

Lot of Yankee fans here

Wow, finally, a game that is going GREAT! Oh man this feels good.

Hey, remember when this team came together like a scoring machine? It's coming back to me now. Nice to see them get a sizable lead for Hughes early.

117 Without a doubt its the Hawk

117 Chicago White Sox. Hawk Harrelson

118 White Sox. Hawk Harrelson, no question. Honorable mention: Orioles. Jim Palmer is a dunce.

Dos mas! Dos mas!

CANO!!!

113 When I use gameday audio, I choose the road feed, at least until the Yankees start losing, at which point I get superstitious.

Yeah Robbie! 6-0, I feel so light and angel like.

Nice Robbie!

Whoo!

this is going to be REALLY nice to let Phil settle in, pitch with a lead & get into a groove.

Wow, it feels like forever since we've had a game like this... so far, that is ;-)

115 How do I find the speed test? I have a speed that's more than 10Mbps though.

They (Sirius) don't have it. I was just comparing the fact that NFL games on Sirius give you the choice of listening to both team announcers. XM sticks you with the local shmucks.

btw I am new at this, how do you reference a post?

I think those of us using MLB TV are about 30 seconds behind.

Oh my! Runs!

here in SD, Jerry Coleman is wonderful, but Ted Lightner is a John Sterling clone and has taken over more and more of the announcing, which sucks

125 I love Palmer's voice, so I give him a pass. Hawk is the ultimate homer...makes Sterling look cynical.

135 # inside brackets [ ].

Phil Hughes is going to like this. He better give us reason to like him.

136 Last time I checked with a fellow Banterer, my feed was more than 1.5 minutes late.

139 That's the most concisely accurate take on Hawk I've ever read...

Stinky's last AB was an error?

144 Yeah, Young should have put him away easily.

Yes guys we had a bad start. Keep pounding away.

144 Not sure of the offical scoring, but it looked like one...

Loe is an awkward looking human

134 It's on the order page...click on Audio&Video link at the top of the page...then MLB Premium...then look for the tiny "Check your bandwidth" link under the video screen.

Even though you have 10Mbps, that doesn't necessarily mean download speed. Also, its a top limit, not a guaranteed connection speed. Whenever I have problems, it because my download speed is slower than it should be.

142 Thanks!

And the Black Hole ruins the party...

At least The Stink is back to form.

117 Boy, that's a tough one. Texas is right up there for me.

But Arizona just might be worse. They do the "Go! Go! Go!" stuff when their guys are trying to beat the throw, too. And they talk about the freakin' 2001 WS constantly.

Again, lets see how Hughes comes out after the long inning...

Dang, shcilling is pitching well again. Sawks up 4-1.

155 Sox pitching looks good early...thank Bud for the wild card :)

Hughes has a K on the fastball, curve and change. Very impressive.

Hughes for 5, 3 for Bean? Farns to close? Assuming we keep a big lead....

Is Hughes wearing Giambi's pants?

The ol' good mornin, good afternoon, and good night, to invoke Sterling..

Recap of Wilkerson's brain:

"Okay, 0-2. Here comes the hook. It's gonna be slow. Gotta stay back. Okay, here's the pitch... big looping curve coming.... oh. Wait. That's the fastball. Down the middle. Crap."

158 I'm lookin for Hughes going at least 6.

153 Mark Grace is pretty bad in that respect. He broadcasts the game like he is still on the bench cheering on his mates.

149 Thanks, I will give it a try right now.

Hughes is really displaying his potential thus far.

How many pitches has he thrown?

151 At least the rest of the lineup has done well

2-7 batters: 6-12 4 RBIs, 1 BB

that curve is damn good at getting DBs...

"the Philip Hughes Experience." Yeah, I totally want to be a part of that band...

Frank Torre is sick again?

31 pitches through 3

31 pitches through 3. Let's keep that up!

31 pitches through 3 innings. That's more like it. And it's not like this lineup has a bunch of AAAA players like the Blue Jays did (other than Rios, Wells, and Thomas).

VERONICA MARS IS BACK!

This Phil guy, pitcher, what's his name? Plays for who?

Oh, yeah, the Yankees.

I could get to like him.

Dominant.

The Phil Hughes Era has begun. No way they send him down until Wang/Pettite/Moose/Iggy get it all togehter.

Only 24 pitches, 14 for strikes.

166 Haven't seen numbers like those in a while...

I got the pitch count from Yahoo. I won't swear it's right, but they say 24.

Stupid trivia question from the Rangers.

I don't know if Hughes stays up, but my guess is the fewer pitches he can throw without burning the pen, the better... if we want him to stay up. We all want to see him go deep, but hopefully we have 10 years for that.

The way to rest the pen is to have guys like Bean/Rasner mop up these kind of games.

At least Abreu hammered that hanger (I coulda hit that), he can't be THAT far off....

Oh oh... there goes Bobby's hit for this week.

The game is still early, but I wonder what Ca$hman and Torre said to the team yesterday?!?

Damn. Keep it up.

Loe at 71 pitches already. That's almost like a Yankees starter these past few games!

Guh.

6-0...SB attempt...uhm Bobby, what are you doing?

149 With 17120 kbps, I don't understand why the buffering.

Damn, that was a perfect throw

Damnit. Its a very special episode of Veronica Mars

166 That number seems unreal in this season.

Great camera work on YES :)

185 Helping my fantasy team, obviously.

Gameday is showing the release point and the break. It's cool, if not accurate.

185 He's probably enjoying Hughes's pitching. Can't blame him.

102 Just caught that comment....nah, you know Pascual's checking the pockets first, just to make sure. Besides, Phil probably wouldn't know what the hell it was...anthrax, maybe?

186 Neither do I...let me try my feed.

195 I'm getting the Red Sox game without buffering. Maybe it's the Yankee/Ranger feed? Have you tried another game?

Wow, Lofton with one of the lamer swings you will see...

On another site, I'm using a quote from the 2000-Year-Old Man as a signature:

"We had a guy in our village named Phil, and for a while we worshiped him."

The rest of the bit is great, too, but that line just fits.

Okajima is pitching again...how funny would it be if he turns out to be a better signing than Dice-K.

there they going talking about the no hits so far. nice

The future is bright, folks.

mother of god, Hughes where have you been all my life. faced the min thru 4... when was the last time that happened?

Is that ALL GB outs or Ks thus far?

200 As well they should.

How many pitches?

205 I count 40

This is unreal - like Kenny said, what if Phil doesn't even GET to 100 pitches come the 9th?

Yahoo hasn't updated, but it should be right about 42 pitches through 4

43

Damnazilla, I like this kid.

4IP, 0H, 0R, 0ER, 2BB, 3K, 4.32ERA.

He just cut his ERA in half in 4 innings (okay, small sample size) on 43 pitches. 29 strikes, 14 balls.

Damn, I like this kid.

We desperately needed a game like this.

here comes the opt-out bullshit

212 Get ready for 6 more months of it.

No matter how this start ends, or this game, or even this season, I;m really getting excited.

Only 4 innings, lets not get too excited yet folks. But obviously if if keeps at this rate, they have to let him go at least 7 full

Apparently he got over the first game jitters.

Good poise for a 20 year old.

The speed of the infield is really silly. I know the sun in Texas must be a contributor, but can't they do something about it?

Man A-Rod is slumping, no HR, pssshhh

Back to Back to Back doubles. I wonder what the record is.

Part of me feels bad for Loe, but 9-14 in April pretty much kills that sentiment..

nice, 3 straight doubles... this is batting practice. this guy ain't going to get anyone out. sound familiar? hah

Think it might be time to pull loe if you are texas

is it me or did Jorge just freakin' BOLT to second base? Nice slide there, Po-Po!

Good God, this'll cure what ails you.

Got Philthy Phil Hughes on the fantasy team, too. Good times.

A game like this is very nice for a change. Extra points for Hughes - efficiency and effectiveness.

doubles come in bunches.

Um, 2 more, just when I hit the head? I should piss more often.

215 I'm excited in general about him. Is that okay? :)

Hey, did anyone notice that Hughes is working on.....a shutout?

229 Dude, he's working on a NO HITTER... ;O

I really wish I could have Hughes on my fantasy team. But I sucked last year, drafted early this year so had a crap waiver priority, and the jerk with the #1 priority (of course a Sox fan) got him and of course is asking for the world for him (which he does for anyone, cause hes a jerk). The price will only go up if this course holds true...Sigh..

Like someone pointed out earlier, playing Texas and Seattle for the next two weeks is a great opportunity for a turnaround.

229 uhm.. yeah, and a no hitter.

230 Ummm, there are certain things you just don't do. And that is one of them....

Bugger! almost a HR for Cano

Ha, that was a great camera angle on the Cano foul ball...

Moment of lucidity for the haters

We are getting a look, right now, at what this team is capable of with decent starting pitching and the offense regressing to the mean. It may not last, and not every game will be like tonight (it's still early in the game), but this should be an indication to all BoSox, Tribe, and other fans what we are capable of doing.

Never count us out, until September 30th. Then, maybe.

Me likey.

230 233 Did you guys never play baseball? :)

223 Seriously, Posada looks like he's got some wheels right now, he looked great rounding third there too!

Ok, its time to start saving runs for tomorrow

Man, I didn't know Steinbrenner's words had this much power.

Let's see if Melky and Minky can join the party.

238 Either that, or they're Red Sox trolls.

230 233 STOP IT!!!

hey, could we get ken to delete those posts?! ; )

238 Tell that to Mark Buerhle, who walked around the dugout bragging about his a couple weeks ago, during the game.

238 hah, ya, but i couldn't pitch, and i was always on the same team with this kid who pitched and was a prat. shrug

Is it just me or does Melky look lost at the plate?

230 233 I blame myself. I thought folks were more sophisticated...or at least more superstitious.

Wow, I reeaallly hope Phil can keepo up this NO HITTER. I would love a NO HITTE today. ;p

2-7 hitters: 10-16 7 RBIs, 9 Runs

Phil the Finisher must be on a pitch count. 60? 70? Any guesses? Try not to boo Torre when he pulls Phil.

Phil was supported to go down after this game. But that was before Karstens. Hard not to keep him up for at least another game.

Everytime the flash to the YES booth to show Murcer,. Girardi is turned towards Murcer and saying something very intensly..funny stuff

You know their pitching is bad when they are afraid to pitch to Minky.

I know it's already been discussed, but I'm so giddy over the fact that Murcer is back!

Thats the Stink we all know and...know.

Minky stinky...

And come on, in many ways, I would prefer a one hitter...

254 Too bad the Yanks aren't on EI.

Man is Bobby struggling...

196 You are right, I am apparently being punished for being a Yankees fan, no buffering with the game Boston is about to win.

Go ahead Zack, ask if the long inning will affect Hughes.

Bobby is really rolling over & opening up... oye vey. Maybe he's spending too much time with Minky.

251 43.

Let's see how the long inning affects Hughes now...

It's still funny when I see a "high school junior" guy as the supposedly manager of Red Sox.

263 Well.

265 I can't keep this up all night, so mayeb someone else can take over... I made plans for Sushi at 7 here, which I figured wouldn't be too big a deal. Sigh...

240 I don't know why, but that "better save some runs for tomorrow" thing, drives me crazy.

First FB out for Texas

That's the first fly ball out for Hughes all game. Chris Gomez and his "Hughes can't be a GB pitcher at the major league level" is looking foolish.

Matsui is moving is leg a little jerky there

49 pitches in the 5th inning with two outs? Simply nice.

267 All I know is that everytime everyone wants to announce that a huge outpouring of runs fixes their ills or whatever, they seem to then suck it up for a few games. THAT annoys ME...

how many pitches is Hughes at?

"when the pitches are on the edges, they're harder to hit then when they're in the middle"

Man... I learn so much listening to these guys.

272 Show me some data.

Ok Phil, lets get through the 5th and qualify

oakland has tied boston at 4 in the 9th!

Pap comes in to save up 4-2.

What! Carl pavano is hurt! I had no idea! Or, is it the same ongoing injury he has had his entire career. Yeah, it's probably that.

Even if he gets lifted next inning, this is just unbelievable for PhilHuge

275 I will, just not now...

PAPELBON JUST BLEW THE SAVE!!!!! 4-4 TOP 9TH!!!!

Cannot believe Singleton just pointed out that which must not be mentioned lest it be jinxed.

This is exciting.

Wait wait wait wait wait. I though Papelbon was the greatest closer of ALL TIME????

Is anyone else concerned that if Hughes gives up a hit next inning that he'll be pulled immediately? I really hope not.

My gameday is slow. I'm watching the sox on it, it still says it's the beginning of the top of the ninth. Annoying but great!

282 I was about to say thank goodness Kay is not doing the game.

I thought Papelbon was "unhittable!!" Someone better go check on Joe Buck.

how did the last out of the inning come, i was watching sox?

285 I would say he's got the next 2 innings regardless or until he gives up his first run...

289 K

289 A swinging K

Well we are quite sure that Hughes won't throw a no-no. The team might.

My God.... How many 'George Bush'es does Texas have?

291-292 why did i even bother asking? a K, duh!

281 That is the best news I just heard all night, as I just checked out the game and the Sox were looking to win it.

MARIANO PART DEUX MY ASS!

277, 281 Can I take the credit for reverse jinx re: 259?

Now if only Hughes could hit and play first on the days he's not starting...

Gameday isn't working, I gotta listen to the sox on the radio. Keep me updated guys.

63 pitches for Hughes through 5.

298 He might outhit our 1b.

298 & pitch long & middle relief...

284 One thing I noticed recently was that last season Paps had an absurdly low babip, like 220 or something when the leagye avg is, iirc, something like .290

Now folls pointed that out about Wang after his rookie year, where he had a similar lo babip and it was correct last season to about leage avg, and he still rocked, but . . . what would such a correction look like for a closer?

ARod hasn't hit a HR in a while...

I actually am rather enjoying the Rangers' announcer's cynicism of this game and awe of Hughes....

278 Way to go, chief. Papelbon working on a three + hitter!

papplebitch walks a guy, making it 1st & 2nd with one out, top 9th.

281 That is joyous tidings you bring!

And it's only one out and he's already thrown 23 pitches.

And he had an injury last year.

And he just walked a guy so there are two on and no out.

MARIANO PART DEUX MY ASS!

(Sorry, you might be seeing that a lot. Unless Alex of Cliff tell me to stop.)

(That's for you, Bill Simmons, because we graduated high school together in 1987 from Brunswick).

Sox announcer sounds so depressed.

275 FWIW, in 2006, the Yankees scored at least 9 runs in 28 games. In the 28 games that followed those high offense games, the Yankees scored 6.5 runs/game, compared to 5.7 runs/game overall.

The other Rangers just tied the Sabres in the series, 2-2.

Am I wrong in saying that Oakland is not considered to be a good hitting team?

A's - Ellis out. Chavez up with two out, two on.

I'm gonna remember that play, next time someone tries to claim that Matsui is slow.

Meaning Joe Castiglione.

315 I missed it, what happened?

317 He beat out another double play ball.

312 Thats hockey. Hockey is boring. Don't talk about boring stuff.

4-4 after 8.5 innings. Papsmear throws 35 pitches in the top of the 9th.

311 That's sorta what I thought.

Pap gets out of it with no further damage.

311 Interesting. I mostly meant games where we score 11 or so runs, maybe 10+, but I am perfectly willing to accept that its a perception thing...

Street was warming for the A's, and presumably will be coming in to HOLD ON THE ROAD.... sorry couldn't resist.

so this post isn't of no value, the end of pap's inning went: with 2 on & 1 out, batter pops foul to C, next batter ground to short. sigh. 4-4 going to bottom of the 9th

I was just reading that Cano ALWAYS swings at that fastball up and in with 2 strikes. Where did I read that?

I don't care. I want tosee Philly Future again

Crud, and now I have to head out. Was hoping I could catch one more half inning, but don't think so. Take good care of Prince Philip!

Yanks are raking tonight.

325 commenter baileywalk said that on a thread at was watching today. maybe there?

319 Boring doesn't describe the last minute of that 4th game AT ALL. Lundqvist makes a game-saver with 13 seconds on a puck that actually looked like it went in according to the replay..

327 I'll pick up the slack:

I wonder how that long half inning will affect Hughes...

I'm glad Papelbon blew it, but I do kinda wish it had been someone else. He's on most of my fantasy teams.

Let's see how Hughes responds to the long inning here...

331 Thanks, I had to post it once more before I left...

christ the FSN guys just called him JUSTIN pappelbon when discussing the blown save (2 rn HR)

332 I hate fantasy talk...real baseball comes first!

I love that hook.

318 Thanks.

Hughes is hitting 96 miles on a non-Yankees Stadium gun.

330 Yeah that looked like a goal to me, and I was watching it in my PIP. Rangers got lucky, but I'll take it.

333 Well.

Fastball not so fast, but location location location.

K K K K K

72 pitches says Singleton

333 Please don't leave...

I'm trying really hard not to get all hyped up about Hughes, but I will say this. Good pitcher face.

How many pitches did Phil throw his last outing?

I do like how the FSN feed shows the k-zone thingy, and how they're showing (visually) how good hughes has been.

another nice K.. damn.

though Street just put 2 guys on, with only one out. charming.

WOWEEEWOW!!!

Oh Schnikees

Phil is Phuckin' Pumped!!!
(sorry, that's the only pun-ish thing I could think of!)
;-)

God damn! and a nice hop off the mound for Phil. Christ I don't want to leave, I stuck out that inning, but must go. Mehmattski, I leave it in your hands :)

fuck balls, this is sweet. the Messiah has arrived!

How many K's is that? It seemed like for his walks he didn't seem to want to throw the fast ball with 3 balls, but he is looking pretty good to me.

No long inning here. Three quick outs, get Phil back out there.

By the way, I like Singleton way more than Kay as a play-by-play guy. But then, I just like Singleton way more than Kay, period.

I suppose Hughes had a talk with Kei Igawi. Looks good tonite.

Wish the Yanks could jump out and get all of their pitchers an early lead. Even for Mussina once in a while.

Lugo grounds to third, leaving runners on second & third with 2 outs. and coco crisp is up. why the hell is crisp batting second.

6IP,0H,0R,0ER,3BB,6K,0HR,3.48ERA

That's not too shabby for a 20 year old rookie in his second game in the majors.

Not too shabby at all.

Hughes has a bit of a Clemens hop after an inning ending strikeout.

6 Ks through 6 IP, and 11 Ks in 10 career IP, I do believe.

In 2005, did the Yanks start playing well once they stopped playing Womack? Or was there another catalyst?

Just bat quickly Yanks...don't want Hughes to lose his Jive and plus, he is the true show.

Boston has gone into extra innings after Papsmear blew the save.

sox game: coco grounds to first, tie 4-4 going to top 10th

360 I thought the catalyst was Tino. I think Woe-mack was still playing during the 10-game winning streak.

Murcer's the good luck charm. :)

364 That's right... Minky with a bleeder...

A Minky hit...right when we need it.

365 I was just thinking that!

Dang - Minky got a hit! And there's thunder rolling into the NYC area as it's happening? Is this a sign of the apocolypse???

Is it just me or is Okajima NASTY. Why the Red Sox just didn't make him the closer is beyond me

Sox: Piazza double off the monster to open the top of the 10th! (Donelly pitching)

I hope Abreu sucks well into June. That way he'll be our secret weapon and it will be just like last year.

There is one guy who never broke out of his slump.

Wow. Abreu used to have a great eye. I can't believe he swung at that.

I feel bad for Abreu

369 Because Papelbon is a really really good pitcher.

364 Tino carried the team for about a month. Didn't he hit like 10 homeruns or something?

Abreu might need a day off.

See Washington knows that he can use a reliever to "take one for the team." Of course, he also starts Sammy Sosa regularly. No point, just observations...

Back-2-back doubles. A's up 5-4, No out.

A's go ahead on a double! still no outs!

Do you leave the kid in?

Boston down 5-4 after Papelbon's blown save. Top of the 10th, 0 out, Johnson on 2nd.

Jeter couldn't wait to see Hughes pitch some more.

378 Sosa hasn't been too bad though, 7 bombs, slugging .547.

Sox down 5-4 now. Main thing is Yanks are winning though.

381 That's the 64 million dollar question

381

I was just thinking that ... ~100 pitches plus one batter to get his complete game or yank him at 85 regardless?

Travis Buck has 3/4 of a cycle. Needs the hard one.

Wow... Hughes still in? Torre is just a sentimental guy.

I take credit for this. I sat Hughes today in a 10-team AL-only league where I'm desperately hurting for pitching.

DOH!!!

381 With 77 pitches and a no hitter?

I would guess he comes out at 90 regardless.

389 Way to take one for the team. Can you sit Abreu for a few days?

390. dont jinx it

oh CRAP.

Tex looking like shit again! wow!

aw f***K!!!

330 Sorry, I just never have liked hockey, don't know if it's actually boring. I know it's better than golf.

Joe Castiglione just mentioned the unmentionable ( that I just mentioned in this thread.)

No. No no no no no no. No no no. Anything but that.

FUCK

No, please no.

aw fuck.

This is Zack's fault, for leaving.

Oh SHIT

nonononovonononononononononononononononononononononononnonononononono

This season fucking sucks.

FUCKING BULLSHIT

That sucks. For the best, and keeps the hype in check, but still.

It must have been Joe. It must have!

Drat. Hughes injured.

at least he's looks like he's walking somewhat OK...
I gave him a standing O in my living room!
Good job, Phil...you done your team proud!

oh. my. god. at least, if anything, it's probably a leg muscle strain or something.

fucking wonderful

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Come on. Details. People watching on TV fill us in who are listening on the radio. This Texas idiots are retarded and talking about Yankee fans leaving the game....TALK ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED YOU MORONS!

I'm seriously want to throw up.

Mike Myers in - no-hitter gone on the very next pitch - write it down.

YOU HAVE GOT TO BE FUCKING KIDDING ME!!!! IS THERE A GOD!!!!!!! lol.

How Bad? WhaT HAPPENED?

Hopefully it was a minor tweak, if anything. It was fun to watch.

Ok seriously, fire this new trainer. This is getting absurd.

If I had to guess, I'd say it's his hamstring. He grabbed his thigh.

Please let it just have been a cramp.

Myers era is under 2? That is shocking...

413 I second that, details... I'm getting nothing.

JPost: Hughes had to leave the game with 1 out in the 7th. It seems like he pulled a hamstring on his left leg.

419 Yeah, something doesn't seem right with this new guy.

Who's in charge of the pitcher's conditioning?

Hang him.

413, 417 Not much to tell. Phil threw a pitch, then reached back and grabbed at his hamstring. He walked around, limping a bit, and they got him the hell out of there.

Girardi said he reached for the bottom part of the hamstring, and that that's not as bad.

Just switched to sterling, says it doesn't seem to be too bad. Let's hope like hell it isn't.

sox game: ortiz up, Street looking for the save.

nice to see meyers mopping up.

I think it might be the knee. That looked bad, please be ok.

427 Now Girardi saying it may have been the upper calf.

It's his left leg. His last pitch, when he landed on his left foot, he visibly jumped and grabbed the back of his thigh.

Could be his hamstring, could be an upper calf strain, could be a hyperextended knee.

ortiz pops out to shallow right. 1 out

Ortiz popped out!

431 That good or bad?

Wonder how many times Murcer is going to say it's a "mute" point...

God, I hope he's ok.

Whew! Nice job, Mikey

Talk about a nightmare early season...just when everything seems so right, things can go so wrong. Paging Tyler Clippard.

You just know the Hughes naysayers are ALL coming out of the woodwork tomorrow morning and re-condemning bringing him up from AAA...

The way he was walking, it didn't appear that he was in much pain, FWIW.

At least Mike Myers didn't kill the no-hitter. Like he killed everyone in Haddonfield.

Well thats that. You wont see Hughes again this year.

This can't be happening.

Manny Ks! 2 out.

It could just be precautionary. Can not fault them at all for pulling him, just by his reaction.

As 311 would say
"F*ck the naysayers 'cause they don't mean a thing'

Manny Strikes out. Youk last hope for sox.

Manny struck out. Down to Youkilis...

431 Keep us updated on whatever is said. I'm monitoring Pete Abe's blog im sure he'll have something up in the half inning.

A's win.

People asked why pitching in MLB could more lead to an injury then pitching in the minors.

This is how.

SOX LOSE!

Youk comes 2 feet from homering, but it was caught on the track. Wwhew. Something going good.

SOX LOSE! Youk barely missed a monster shot. phew!

They just showed the replay of Monahan on the bench talking to Pettitte and it looks like he is saying "it popped" Not good.

The trainer said it "popped." Which the YES announcers say is very bad news.

This may be a good thing. We've seen the future. He had bad luck. Go back to Scranton, work it out as planned, come back strong, kick ass after June. Stay the f*ck away from whomever is responsible for stretching and physical conditioning with the Yankees. Come back and dominate.

This goes beyond coincidence.

439 He injured himself on the 82nd pitch. He wasn't overworked.

Seriously, something is wrong with the training staff when FOUR guys go down with the same injury.

Giambi has crushed the ball three times, but they haven't gone very far, and right at fielders.

Looks like Monnihan mouthed "it popped", which would mean no Hughes until the All Star Game.

At least we know we have a stud.

BTW, Sox lost and Papelbon blew the save. Small consolation tonight.

456 June? He'll be lucky if he even throws off a mound in June if it's as bad as everyone's talking...

I want that new trainer's ass fired, NOW.

459

Or we have Mark Prior.

456 If it "popped" I stand badly corrected.

Damn it.

lets not freak till Pete Abe or something says to...... "it popped" could mean maybe it just tweaked. right, right, couldn't it...

461 Yeah really, there's a point where it no longer becomes a coincidence

462 Prior's problems have been in his arm, right? Or is that Wood? Both?

The pitching savants on Baseball Tonight seem to think that it was a hyperextended knee. John Kruk lacks a medical degree, however, so I might not use him as a source for injury reports.

We'll the full story at the post game show from Susan. They'll get the true story.

451 I don't think an 82 pitch outing can be called taxing.

Besides, it's not an arm injury. So, even if Hughes misses two months, it's not like his long-term health has been jeopardized. Also, not bringing him up would be the same as having him on the DL.

is this a Sox game thread?

470 Seriously. There are more interesting things than ric's team to talk about tonight.

470 Amen. Papelbon blowing a save is satisfying, but there are three other teams between the Yanks and the Sox right now...

Are the Yankees winning this game? Why don't I care?

Myers coming back out?

464 yeah , maybe he was talking about Phils knuckles, when he was cracking them. Let's try to be optomistic. About what,I'm not sure, as there seems to be nothing to be glad about.

Boy. That Hardball Times article that worried about Hughes' durability, and in particular, his follow-through, is looking prophetic. :-(

474

I hope so! No reason to blow another 3 pitchers in this game for God's sake.

472 Not only that, there's still a team no-hitter on.

472 I could really care less about any of the standings at this point either. Damnit...

If it's a non-serious injury, that solves the problem of how to divvy up Hughes' innings this year. Whenever he comes back he needs to be in the big league rotation. No question about it.

Ok, that's on me.

So its Pettitte, Mussina, Wang, and just pray. I am not a religious man, but I am going to say a prayer tonight.

Joe...let Myers close the game...even if he gives up 5 runs. Please.

How did I know that was gonna happen? Could have been the other forboding occurences that recently, uh, occured.

Has Myers gotten a lefty out this year?

Well, the Yankees game is a blowout, and the Sox game went to OT. So yeah, I'd say there's reason to be talking the Sox game.

I think Hughes is going to use his good leg to kick Myer's butt!

I say leave Myers in - don't waste anyone else. Who gives a f*ck if he gives up 5-6 runs at this point.

CBS Sportsline's glog says it was his left hamstring, take that for what it's worth (very little I think).

476 I heard Hughes delivery compares very favorably to Clemens, who is supposed to have the best pitching mechancis of all time, according to some experts. I believe it was covered in Olney's Yankees book, forget the title of it....:)

This season against Mike Myers, including Wilkerson and Kinsler:

LH: 7 for 22, 2 2B, 1 HR
RH: 1 for 17

I have no reason to watch anymore. Goodnight everybody.

injured?! are you kidding me? hammy?

Roger Clemens isn't going to want anything to do with this team when he could have Schilling, Beckett, Lester, and Matsuzaka in the same rotation, with Papelbon closing.

Ya think Cashman's texting the Rocket right about now?

490 So the lefty specialist can't get lefties out?

seriously, let meyers take this one - he's the mop up guy these days anyway.

491 At best. ;(

493

Not going to happen.

491 Now's not the time, please.

486 Five reasons not to be talking about the Sox during this game:

1) Hughes no-no
2) Hughes injured
3) We've got to air out our hate for the training staff
4) Big night for the offense
5) Sox are teh suk

Maybe they can hire Rocket to be their strength and conditioning coach.

slow developing double play

489 But was that last year, or this year? The article argued that the Yankees have changed his mechanics, and not for the better.

476 I think that was about his elbow, but I could be wrong.

Good night, all. Here's for a good night's sleep. I know I won't have one.

500 nicely played

492 You don't think Clemens would want to go somewhere he'd make a bigger difference?

Let Myers finish it.

Where is Ron Villone?

Can't be long before he resurfaces.

497 Do you ever have anything positive to say here? Because each time I read your comment it's about naysaying the Yanks.

lets not start turning on each other now everyone.

507 Villone can opt out for another team as of today.

Nighty-night all. Hope for better news tommorow. THe headlin ewould be:

TORRE REVEALS HUGHES PITCHING LAST NIGHT WAS A ROBOT WUTH THE EXACT SAME SKILL AS HUGHES!

Ahhhh god. Whatever.

Robbie has looked atrocious. I hope this is him coming back.

there goes Robinson, padding his stats...

Didn't some of the players say they didn't like the stretching routine the new S&T coach had them doing?

Here's the article:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/2pwmz9

It wasn't just his arm and shoulder that's different, it's "the way he moves through the balance point."

I'm not an expert, but in the frames/animations, he does look very different from last year.

514 It might have been Moose, but yeah I remember reading that too.

Good thing we padded our lead with that extra run there! HAHA!

515 Someone made a good point earlier, that one shouldn't take much from a first major league start in a different year no less. It's not really comparable until he gets a few more innings in this year. For all we know, his mechanics were fine in AAA.

Does Abreu have to kill a man to get (and stay) on base tonight?

man, did you see Abreu's feet from the overhead shot - way off balance. yikes.

You know Stinky is quite the player when he can go 1-5 and improve his average

TAKING GIAMBI OUT OF ANOTHER GAME LATE??

madness

/sarcasm

Phelps sighting! at least he'll get the chance to shake off some rust. sorta

The FSN guys were talking about how Jeter would be successfull in anything he did if he wasnt a ballplayer. His catch phrase? "

For chips, salsa, and guacoMOL, go to Derek Jeter's Taco Hole."

I have no words.

522 Giambi must turn into a pumpkin at 10pm.

524 They were quoting an SNL skit.

524 That catchphrase has limitless potential for abuse.

Should have left Myers in

Just what Vizcaino needs...more work!

Since somebody else already cussed,

FUCK THE TRAINING STAFF.

This feel so much worse than any of the 8 losses.

Wow did this thread dry up quick when Hughes came out of the game...

524 Here's what they were talking about:
http://www.jeterfan.com/snl6.htm

Free Colter Bean! How can Torre bring Viz in here? Crazy.

Why is Viz in? This is baffling.

I just looked at the replay and when Posada went out to talk to Hughes, the first thing Hughes said was "Hamstring problems". I don't think he popped his knee.

As has been mentioned on LoHud, I am reluctant to blame this incident on the Yankees' new strength and conditioning coach. The number of hamstring pulls this year is staggering and he should be held accountable for, at the very least, some of them. I believe he should be replaced for the good of the team. That said, Hughes was more than warmed up by the time his injury occured, whatever it may end up being. Phil was pitching in the 7th inning, having already thrown 82 pitches. Improper warmup were not the cause of this injury. Changes in his mechanics may have been, but I don't know enough about the biophysics of pitching to expound on that.

524 I think they said that was from SNL

The stands emptied out when Hughes was pulled, too.

Maybe he asked in the game...

531 I'm still for the most part speechless

536 I'm being irrational, which means I have to blame someone.

535 Could have popped his hamstring, not his knee.

536 I thought mechanical problems usually result in arm injuries.

536 That should read biomechanics. Biophysics is a different beast entirely.

536 That should read biomechanics. Biophysics is a different beast entirely.

There goes Phil saving both the Yankees season AND my fantasy rotation..

Well. This should have been much happier.

Apart from the Hughes injury, this was a perfect pitching scenario for the Yankees...nice 9th by Viz too.

Oh, and why the fuck are some people talking about the no-no? If you don't believe in the superstition, fine, shout it out loud all you want, but I (and several others here, I assume) don't want to read it. If you're a fan...wow. Would any Yank fans here actually go troll a Sox board like that?

546 Would you believe that I benched him today?

Posada: "We're going to miss him for awhile".

:(

Jorge on the post game, "we're going to miss him (Hughes) for a while, he said he felt it pop"

Maybe, just maybe, the injury is for the best and he gets better after a little bit, but he left this game without giving up a hit, close to his pitch count anyway. Maybe a little confidence booster, maybe a good excuse to rest that arm for a bit, too.

Anyway, with Moose back, the rotation is back.

Any word yet?

Posada said in post game interview that he heard it pop

Did his mechanics really cause the injury? If not, by fuck's sake don't change them back to any way they were.

This year is a disaster

He HEARD it pop? That can't be good.

550 I started him hoping for a few good innings... I'm speechless. This just sucks. Period. I waited for so long just so I could pick him off waivers when he got called up.. I really feel for the kid.. considering he's my age I can't even fathom what hes going through.

555 I think Jorge said he heard Phil SAY he heard it pop, not that Posada physically heard anything 'pop'...

549 Sorry, but I'm a Yankee fan, and if there's a no-hitter going on, I want to talk about it. If you don't want to read about it, then I'd suggest you not read.

558 From what I read on Pete Abe's blog in the comments, on the YES post game interview or whatever after the game, Phil said when Jorge game to the mound that "he heard it pop." I'm assuming thats why Posada waved for Monahan so quickly as soon as he got out there.

"He felt something pop in the back of his left leg."

I suspect he has an MRI in his immediate future.

560 That's what I meant. Sorry for the confusion.

I suspect we have a lot of alcohol in our immediate futures.

What is "it"? Did he hear his knee pop?

Anyone with experience on these issues? Do these things have lasting effects?

Maybe Hughes takes two months off and is fresh for the playoffs? The only problem is this year, we may need him to get TO the playoffs.

560 I think that's right. But what was the "it"? Definitely a knee, or could it have been a hamstring?

561 We just don't don't do that here. Consider it a baseball and Bronx Banter tradition.

566 Hamstring...if it's a bad one, it could mean Hughes doesn't pickup a ball until late June.

Nomaas.org sums it up perfectly.

Great googly-moogly. Some moron on Pete Abe's blog is complaining because Pete hasn't posted a diagnosis yet. The internet really brings out the winners, doesn't it?

569 Thanks for the backup.

571 Right underneath the lead post - 'blank check' indeed.

A blank check and a Hummer dealership.

569 That's silly...if you are that superstitious, close the browser and watch the game alone.

Considering Pete's down in the clubhouse at this very second trying to figure this all out, that guy should hold on and take a ticket.

572 Ufff. I just went through those comments. Poor Pete...

575 Seconded.

Or maybe God loves us - he popped Phil's hammy to save him from Torre burning his arm out, and now he'll come up to the majors when he should...in August or September.

My brother just told me it's Phil's groin. But it sounds like that's wrong, huh? Hammy?

Right now that doesn't sound so bad to me. Like others are saying, worst case (assuming hammy) is that Hughes gets about the correct number of ML innings, but gets them in the second half.

And damn, he's the real deal. So I feel a WHOLE lot more optimistic than a lot of youse sound. Can't wait to see what Alex B. says tomorrow.

573 One of the things I love about baseball, about the Yankees, and about Bronx Banter is the respect for tradition. I'm not superstitious myself, but following the tradition is part of the fun. Alex's and Cliff's appreciation for baseball tradition is a big part of the appeal of this site.

Besides, there are ways you can talk about it without actually saying it. Just look over old game threads for examples.

575 You might think it is silly, but I don't get why that prevents you from respecting others wishes. I don't care much one way or another, but I know it is important to others so I respect their wishes.

Besides, you can talk about Hughes' performance without specifically saying "no hitter". This is a well known and widely accepted superstition, no matter how silly it may be.

What are we so worried about Hughes for? Pavano will be back soon.

Seriously, nomaas nailed it. How can something be so right, and then go so wrong?

577 One can only imagine it's a chaos in the clubhouse right now.

580 Groin?!!! Wha?

The way I told my brother was, "Let's just say the only base runners to reach vs. the Phenom have come by BB."

So, I missed the game. Obviously the stats say a lot for Hughes. How about his game? What would folks say abou tit in recap? (if you don't mind)

It's hard to think it now, but the Yankees actually have developed an honest to goodness top of the rotation ace.

With Hughes at least headed to the 15-day DL, do they turn to Clippard? Or is back to Rasner?

Suzyn reports:
Joe says this is significant. Upper part of his left hamstring.
Hughes said: "I'll be back, I did this in high school." Apparently he wanted to stay in (!!!) but Jorgie put his foot down (unless I misunderstood that bit).
Who's going to pitch five days from now? Joe: I haven't the slightest idea.

"At least six weeks".

581 If we were so into baseball traditions from 50 years ago, we'd have no problem with pitchers throwing 130 pitches a game and racking up 300 innings.

To be honest, I don't, as I think the pussifying of kids from a young age has in may ways led to the problems we see today, but thats a horse of an entirely different color.

588 well, moose is back which helps a bit. I think that Hughes shows a lot of promise. I will wait before proclaiming him the ace though. But god, i hope he heals nicely.

Waldman: Significant pop in Hughes' upper hammy, according to Torre.

"At least 6 weeks" out...

Six.. weeks.

What the fuck.

582 First off...I didn't talk about it. Secondly, it may be others wishes to talk about a no hitter. Why should their preference be ignored? There are two sides to every issue. Personally, I believe that if you don't want to talk about something in a forum of discussion, you should remove yourself from it instead of dictate what others can say.

587 He looked better than his line, if that makes any sense.

581 I love tradition, too. But I'm sorry, I'm not aware of any such tradition here - and I'm not a newbie. Fortunately, it won't come up often, but if it does I want to talk about the game.

Hughes also said, according to Waldman, he had the same thing in high school.

I'm sure a bunch of the stories tomorrow will leave that out and blame the Yanks for rushing him.

On YES...Joe: "He felt a little pop...he seems to feel pretty good...did something similar in High School...it's going to be some time..."

582 Exactly. I'm an atheist, but I don't go to other people's churches and throw eggs during the service, just because hey, that's what I want to do. It's a matter of tradition and respect. The not talking about a no-hitter thing is well-established baseball tradition, and a well-established Bronx Banter tradition.

583 Thanks for the laugh before I go off to bed.

It HAS to be the trainer. There is no way this is all a coincidence.

595 That is ridiculous. What you propose is a forum without moderation. If you have ever visited one, than you would know that a forum without moderation is the lowest common denominator of crap.

A forum is a form of community. In all communities, all people have to make compromises on certain levels. Otherwise you have a heirarchy of chaos, which is just ugly.

The Hughs bad hamstring injury on the way to a possible no hitter sorta reminds me of Barbero though I assume the final outcome won't be quite as bad.

600, it's only Yankee no-hitters we don't talk about. I seem to recall us talking about the other team's no-hitters as early as the first inning.

598 Yo, I said that already 589.

I don't believe the trainers are in any way at fault. And yeah, I'm such an expert on all medical issues, so listen to me.

Six weeks is probably optimistic. Hamstrings always take longer than they predict. :-P

582 I'd like to talk about a no hitter without having to waste three minutes coming up with a clever way to get around saying no hitter. Why can't you respect my wishes?

No-no talk:
I don't exactly get it, since (I presume) nobody actually believes that mentioning it will threaten the no-hitter. Still, enough people here 'honor the tradition', or whatever, that I'll respect it too.

603 Exactly...and I think you need to compromise your "superstition" so others can discuss a momunmental event. It seems like you cant get past your own interests.

600 An atheist to church is not akin to a yankee fan who is superstitious to one who isn't.

607 yeah, these hamstrings always seem to become more than they claim they will... what a bummer.

593 At least we don't have to worry about Hughes' workload this year.

607 Longer, once it heals he has to build up his arm strength. This could be not the worst thing in the world, it'll limit his innings. He can come back and just let loose.

607 Often, you're right. Like Robbie's last year. Still, 6 weeks is a long estimate for a hamstring, isn't it?

603 Be serious. There's a big difference between a forum without moderation and saying that people can't say "no-hitter" because they'll jinx it. And it's not a church either, nor are we talking about people's deepest-held beliefs. At least, I sure hope not.

I wouldn't make a point of saying it just to offend, but I'm not going to make a point of avoiding it, either. My intent is not to offend - as throwing eggs in a church would be - but to talk about the game, which is the point of the forum.

605 LOL! That's right. If it's, say, the Red Sox who have a no-hitter, we say things like, "Hey, does Dice-K have a NO HITTER? That's really impressive, a no-hitter. You don't often see NO-HITTERS. "

I'm betting they send him back to AAA if he's back by mid-June.

604 Put him down!

I think that might be why we're so touchy about people talking about Yankee no-hitters, since we talk about other teams' no-hitters ridiculously early as a roundabout way of rooting for the Yankees to get a hit.

We're .005 percentage points behind the D-Rays for sole possession of 4th place, so we got that going for us...

613 He wont have to build up. Wanger threw throughout his hammy problem.

On YES: Cashman, "MRI when we get back to NY...doesn't know a best case scenario"

He looked really dejected.

611 And one hand is not enough to count the number of hammy problems this season so far. We just entered May?

How about if I say, "Hughes has a no-hittre going," or, "The Rangers haven't gotten a hiit yet." Will that be OK?

608 610 both of you seem to consistently take the position that you never have to respect the wishes of others to maintain a decorum of discussion. I don't have a response for you at this point. I really am not interested in getting stuck in another of your "we can never be wrong" arguments.

What a depressing blow out victory.

623 I'm really concerned about the hammy problems (as I know everyone else is). I just feel so powerless (don't I always). Oh please may the gods of good physical health smile on us for the rest of the year.

Good night all, thanks for commiserating.

Hughes says he's never had any hamstring issues before.

He says he's not in agonizing pain, but there's no way he could have continued to pitch.

625 You seem to consistently take the position that "what I want is what everyone else should". That's not going to convince me of anything, so yes, I think it would be a good idea if you'd stop trying.

Six really long weeks. Baseball does suck sometimes. Too bad it's my crack.

630 really? What did I want in this case? This is exactly my point. You compltely ignore my statements and just find new ways to argue. I am not interested and stop addressing posts to me.

629 Is that a different statement than what others said about his having this problem in high school?

Especially since some people were just being obnoxious about ruining our superstition. Not cool.

625Give me an effing break.

I hate to break it to you folks, but Phil Hughes was not reading this blog. I don't know if I've failed to "respect the wishes" of people who seem to think he was, but I don't give a crap. Phil wasn't on the mound with his little laptop reading our posts.

And in an even bigger shock, I'm sure, I'm willing to be he knew what was happening! He might have been clued in when none of the Rangers got hits off him. Just a thought.

So no, I don't think my mentioning the word "no hitter" went 1500 miles through the interweb and blew out his leg.

I'm not going to pretend that a no hitter isn't happening or invent a cutesy nickname for it. I'm going to say "Holy Shit, the 20 year old phenom has a no hitter threw six!" Because I don't think the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy are going to team up and stop it.

633 Sure sounds like it.

Seems like we had a lot of hamstring injuries last year, too...

g'night all.

632 You WANT several posters to not discuss one of the most impressive accomplishments in baseball because YOU are superstitious. That's selfish and childish. Take your ball and go home...I'm not impressed by your tantrums.

632 You said we don't think we should respect others wishes. Why do the wishes people who want to talk about a baseball event get pushed to the side?

Pete has the update. I'm too depressed to post a link.

638 No. Exactly my point. I already told you that I don't hold that superstition. But you keep saying that over and over. This is a complete repeat of every discussion with you. g'night for real...

638 And that's insulting.

I've tried not to join the self-appointed Bronx Banter police. But OYF and company were right.

641 So what is your point? That anyone who wants to discuss an amazing baseball feat should talk in code so as not to offend any one?

re: the no no-no

To me it's fairly simple. Mentioning "no-hitter" will upset some people while not mentioning it isn't going to upset anyone. Can you really tell me that you would be upset if someone said, "Hey, there's another 3 outs", or something that hinted at the no-no? I doubt it. So I try and respect the wishes of those who it will impact more. In this case, it is a bigger deal for those in the "tradition" crowd. I wouldn't be all that upset if "no-hitter" were mentioned, but it does take some of the fun out of it. If you want to talk about it, so be it. Just know that it has been going on here awhile and people have gotten used to it here. If we had been mentioning "no-hitter" all along in the past and we came up with this "tradition" on the spot then I could understand a little more. But that's not the case.

My two cents anyway.

Well I jsut go tback. Crudski, never predicted that ending. Shit, 6-8 weeks is killer , but I guess thats how he keeps his innings down, eh?

I'm using Cano as a model. He showed no lingering effects.

ESPN is optimistic at 4-6 weeks.

I want to extend my apologies to everyone, i take full responsibility for tonight's dissapointing finale (so to speak). I chose to leave to go get sushi and fulfil my social obligations, which was obviously the wrong thing to do. So once again, I apologize.

That being said, honestly, this isn't the end of the world. It hurts our season, as Phil is better than wheover will take his place (Matt deSalvo I bet, who after being DFA'd, has been dealing in AAA and had another good start tonight). But, as Cliff had insisted and we all know, Hughes wasn't really scheduled to make it with the big club until around the all-star break anyways, when he will be returning most likely. So this way, that whole problem is fixed and Hughes pitches his innings with the big league club etc.

A Hammy injury isn't a big deal, it just means he'll have to rebuild his arm strength. Clemens gets a lot of hammy injuries, its part of being a power pitcher who uses his legs for power. It doesn't have anything to do with the Yankees trainer or anything else, it has to do with how he pitches. He'll be gone two months and be back good as new. Which, as we saw tonight, can be damn damn good...

648 I'm more worried about the last part. He had the magic tonight. I just hope to god that the injury doesn't take any away.

648 Like I said, I don't think he has to rebuild arm strength. Like Wang did, he could continue to toss.

650 I hope so. I wonder if he makes it back by the all star break if he will even pass 18 IP?

That is, if he will even REACH 180 IP

I don't care if you ban the word "no-hitter" or not during a no-hitter, but c'mon, take a second to think about this. This question can be resolved in a far simpler and mature fashion than with all these childish, self-centered back-and-forth arguments.

Hopefully Hughes can bounce back quick. Lord knows the Yankees are in desperate need of pitching performances like what Hughes turned in tonight.

And don't know if tis been posted, but accoridng to Hughes via the Times:
"There was a little bit of a pop," Hughes said. "But there was no sharp pain or anything like that."

That sounds a lot better than what I had been hearing, who knows

"EB in LA" over at RLYW posted, IMO, comment of the night:

"Since Steinbrenner's daughter dumped Swindall, we've been wondering who was going to be the general partner for the Yankees after Stienbrener. Now we know.

It will be Roger Clemens."

Oh what the deuce. According to RLYW, Tabata got injured on Sunday. The Yanks' two best prospects going down in 3 days.

Oh baseball gods, what have we done? Can we trade you Carl Pavano and Doug Midzkdaizi for our mojo back?

This is my first comment ever. In fact, I registered just to say that you should respect the tradition of not mentioning an ongoing no-hitter because doing so is clearly the decent thing to do. Whether the superstition is correct or not, you have joined a place where the superstition is respected. It is VERY similar to the analogy of going into church and offending the people there. You came to this board and decided to join the posting community. The code of conduct is clear and easily followed. Why wouldn't you respect these people's wishes? Do you feel as though none of the commenters has noticed that there is a no-hitter going on? Do you secretly yearn to earn the nickname "Scoop"? Are you planning to overthrow the Baseball Toaster? Of course you can still talk about the game without calling it a no-hitter. Go into the archives and see how it's been done by other posters. The superstition actually inspires some clever posts. This isn't a question of what you can and can't do. It's a question of what you should do and, if you have any desire to be a decent person, you should respect tradition and other people's wishes.

Besides, nobody's blaming you for Hughes' injury. We're blaming you for Tabata's injury.

657 It's about building the new stadium. They had a cathedral now they'll have a ballpark. The Yankees are becoming just another team now.

659 They haven't had a cathedral since the renovations. And if they had anything left after the renovations, the recent work pretty much killed it.