Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
2007-04-24 12:09
by Cliff Corcoran
Note: The Bronx Banter blog has moved to

The Yankees have the fourth-worst starters' ERA in baseball (only the Rangers, Mariners and these Devil Rays have been worse, which gives you some idea how rough those teams have had it thus far). The Yankee starters are averaging just 4.87 innings per game, and opponents are smacking them around at a .301 clip. After 18 games, the Yankee have received just five quality starts, three of them from Andy Pettitte, one from the indefinitely disabled Carl Pavano, and the last from Kei Igawa, who was quite a bit short of quality last night.

There's nothing this team needs more right now than a high-quality starting pitcher. Maybe something in a 19-game winner and Cy Young runner-up, ideally with a high pitch efficiency, possibly a pitch-to-contact groundballer of some type. Got anything like that? You do? Do you think he'd be available to pitch in Tampa tonight? You say he's already there? Sweet! Just wait until the guys hear about this, they'll be stoked!

Additional reason to be stoked (no, it has nothing to do with Brian Stokes . . . yet): The Devil Rays have placed Akinori Iwamura on the DL with an oblique strain and recalled Jorge Cantu, who failed to make the team out of camp and is hitting just .267/.317/.360 in triple-A. I don't know how Joe Maddon plans to alter his lineup, but moving Ty Wigginton to third base, putting Carlos Peña at first, and moving B. J. Upton up in the order would make the most sense to me. Whatever he does, this is good news for the Yankees, as Iwamura has reached base nine times in 14 trips against the Yanks, scoring seven times. It's a bummer for baseball fans in general, however, as Iwamura's been one of the better stories of the young season.

I doubt the Yankees are shedding any tears. They're too busy being stoked.

Comments (556)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-04-24 13:36:28
1.   Simone
Welcome back, Wang. He has been missed. Let us hope that he pitches a complete game shut out or something close.

I hope Alex hasn't ruined his marrymoon by watching the highlights of these dreadful games.

2007-04-24 13:42:50
2.   Shaun P
Any word on the lineup - is Phelps playing, or is Mientkiewicz?
2007-04-24 13:46:07
3.   Cliff Corcoran
2 Good question. With the lefty on the mound for the Rays, you'd hope for Phelps, but with Wang on the mound for the Yanks you can't really argue with Minky. Now if only Torre would limit Minky's starts to Wang's games, then we'd have something here.
2007-04-24 13:48:18
4.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
I dunno. I'm hoping for the best, but I see some rust for the Wanger.

Didn't he have only the one start in the minors, and wasn't his gb/fb ration something like a very un-Wangish 1:1?

2007-04-24 13:58:07
5.   Jim Dean
3 I can argue with Mfhdijghsfd - his RATE2 so far is 84, whereas Phelps is 81. Before you shout "Small sample size!", consider that 84 is very far below average, not above, no matter how you cut it.

Oh, and Mfhfdjxk has been a below average 1B for at least the last three years. Combine that with his woeful inability to get on base, and the choice should be clear from this point forward.

Unfortunately, it's going to take another three weeks of full-time play. The another few of occasional starts and LIDRs.

2007-04-24 14:03:03
6.   Cliff Corcoran
5 Other advanced defensive stats tell a different story on Minky. Dave Pinto's Probalistic Model of Range has figures that match Minky's rep. I'm not saying Rate or Pinto is the right. I'm just saying there's a discrepency there and I'm not comfortable saying either is definitive.

From what I've seen thus far watching every game, he gets to a few balls Phelps doesn't and makes a few scoops Phelps won't, and is vastly superior to Phelps on making plays that require him to act as an infielder (charging balls, diving, making throws, etc.). I think Phelps should start behind everyone else, but Minky just might have value behind Wang.

2007-04-24 14:12:19
7.   Shaun P
5 I like RATE2 as a defensive stat, but I'd also like to see what a play-by-play system says. Unfortunately, I don't think David Pinto or John Dewan update their systems in-season.

I can see the argument for playing Minky, and I might even agree with it.

That said - and this is a very small sample - Wang has pitched 27.7 innings at the Trop, 29 hits allowed, 1 HR, 4 BB, 12 K, 3.90 ERA, 1.19 WHIP. 7 IP with Sheff at 1B, 8.3 IP with Phillips, 6.3 IP with Giambi, and 6 IP with Tino. Maybe it doesn't matter who plays first.

Only because Wang tends to give up more runs on the road, I'd play Phelps and hope for the best.

2007-04-24 14:12:53
8.   Jim Dean
6 Fair enough, but Pinto is 2006 only, right? And if Mfsdkjfg has degraded even a bit then even that advatage would seem to go away?

So far Phleps has been twice the hitter. And if he's not half the fielder (which at 1B seems impossible), then I see no reason for Mfhsdfjg on the team.

Look at is this way, all those fews you've seen so far (hits, scoops, bunts, throws) do they add up to ten to 12 total bases?

2007-04-24 14:14:35
9.   Dimelo
Can't we just give Minky Phelps' jersey and have Mdlaidfdklaiaz play the field and Phelps bat? Is that illegal?

Anyhow, just wanted to let you know that I'm STOKED!!!

I never wanted to see a Taiwanese Wang so badly. I lust for that Wang. I'm hoping that Wang can go deep into the game today. I want our Wang to go deeper than a Ron Jeremy anal scene.

I am stoked and I'm ready for the Wang. Give it to me!!!

2007-04-24 14:15:30
10.   Shaun P
Hey - very off topic - but why is Phil Hughes's debut NOT on YES?

Even worse news - I just checked Extra Innings's schedule, and its not on there either!!!!!

Is MLB.TV still running their free promo?

2007-04-24 14:15:50
11.   Jim Dean
9 Wow. Is it 4:20 yet?
2007-04-24 14:16:26
12.   Jim Dean
10 Cliff says WWOR in the sidebar.
2007-04-24 14:18:44
13.   Dimelo
11 Unfortunately I'm still working. After my conf call ends at 6:30, then it'll be "4:20" for me. I'm a little behind, but I'm sure you understand. We'll have a bowl when the Wang throws his first pitch, after's going to be all-good in Yankee land.

I really, really hope I'm right.

2007-04-24 14:19:29
14.   Dimelo
10 Yeah they mentioned My9 yesterday on YES for Thursday's game.
2007-04-24 14:20:14
15.   Bama Yankee
6 Good analysis, Cliff. I know it is just anecdotal evidence, but it seems like Minky has made some very nice plays at first so far (the announcers usually say something like, "that's why they got him, for his defense"). He also hasn't seemed to be bothered by his surgically repaired back (although he did move rather gingerly after he took a spill on the A-Rod high throw last night).
2007-04-24 14:21:31
16.   Jim Dean
13 Dude - you're hilarious. You might need to get laid too...
2007-04-24 14:24:38
17.   Dimelo
16 I'd give up a few nights/weeks of pleasure for a bunch of Yankee wins and our starters going deep into games.

I won't, however, give up on my girl on Mary Jane - at that point the Yankees better figure it out.

2007-04-24 14:27:05
18.   Dimelo
16 BTW, everything was going so well on 4/20 up till the 8th inning. I don't know if it was all the haze, but it felt like I was watching my own abortion during the bottom of the 8th against Boston.

Not a good night at all.

2007-04-24 14:31:15
19.   AbbyNormal821
9 Oh my Lord! HAHA!!! Overshare there, Dimelo!!!
2007-04-24 14:34:52
20.   jayd
Never mind the runner-up, we need Johan My Johan...but with the twinkies currently tied for first I guess that won't be happening. What happened to the disastrous slow start, my mired in last place twinkies looking to dump salary? What's a poor downtrodden Yankee fan left to hope for?

Thank God I spent the weekend on an air mattress waiting for furniture to arrive and had no tv hookup. Went to a sports bar for Friday night, but the knuckleheads were so festive -- one could feel hopes rising in the nation. Isn't it like this every year? Why are these people never CLUED IN?

I like the Minky-Wang connection. So I concede 30 starts, about as many as I would like to see Will Nieves, come to think of it. We need to get together and fax Joe the moves we actually approve of.

Looked up Dave Pinto's Probalistic Model of Range for Phelpsie as Catcher yet? I've always felt we would have a season where Jorge goes down for a while and we would REALLY REALLY find out who this team's MVP is. God I hope it's not this year.

The great teams deal with adversity. This is a great team. My final word.

2007-04-24 14:36:05
21.   Vandelay Industries
Is anyone else worried about JD? If it hurts him to stand up, wouldn't it be better to take 15 days off, than to take every other day off for the foreseeable future?

Is this another dumb ass case of keeping a silly meaningless steak alive, or can this fix itself? With Matsui back, isn't this the perfect time to DL the oft-tweaked Center Fielder?

2007-04-24 14:38:09
22.   seamus
21 it depends on what the problem is. Back pain can be a lot of things.
2007-04-24 14:41:47
23.   Vandelay Industries
ESPN is off again. They were just spouting off about "Why does Roger Clemens have to follow Andy Pettitte around?" "He followed him to Houston." Wasn't it the other way around? I'm pretty sure Andy followed Roger to Houston.

Either way, I thought Clemens would be great but not neccessary. However, it is becoming clear that Igawa is not ready from prime time, and should probably be pitching in Tokyo, not Gotham. I am back on the Roger Clemens band wagon. If only because he and Andy would feed off of each other.

2007-04-24 14:46:23
24.   Vandelay Industries

He said he is overcompensating for the calf injury, and that is causing strain on his back. Isn't that a pretty clear sign that he should sit until the calf is 100% and the weather is a tad better 15 days from now? I guess I just dont see the point of sending JD out there at 50% just so he can keep his non-DL streak alive, a streak that will have no meaning to actual educated fans who are fully aware that he should have been DL'd numerous times while playing for other squads, not only the Yankees. Gritty tough players play through injuries and get better (E.G. Cal Ripken), they dont take every other day off when they should be on the DL. Its easy for any player to tell the press they want to play when they know ahead of time that the manager isn't going to play them.

2007-04-24 14:50:19
25.   tommyl
23 You are incorrect. Andy signed with Houston while Clemens was "retired" and then Clemens signed. Its possible that if the Yankees had kept Andy, Clemens might have stayed retired, at least for that one year. Who knows though?
2007-04-24 14:50:45
26.   seamus
24 ok, i missed the part of the calf. gritty and tough may have something to do with playing through injuries, but I don't know what it has to do with getting better. That is more an aspect of what type of injury it is, how your body is built/recovers, etc.. Part of what made Ripken what he was was luck.
2007-04-24 14:53:31
27.   Vandelay Industries

Agreed concerning Jorge. He may not be the team MVP, but he is certainly more important day to day than most any player we've had. I hate to think how this team would have performed had we had an average reciever and dead spot in the lineup like most teams. If he played for another team, he would get the props he has always deserved. Its not sexy to write about Jorge when you have Jete, Arod, Boggs, Clemens, Cone, etc.

2007-04-24 14:59:52
28.   Vandelay Industries

To be fair, Ripken had a Clemens-like legendary off season routine, years before many players gave up golf and beer in the off-season, for training. I agree about the type of injury determining the need for a DL stint. I guess my argument would be that if you can play on again off again with the same injury, and it isn't getting better, that is the type of injury that likely needs a period of time to heal. I appreciate that he wants to help the team, but I'd rather he be healthy for 100 games if possible, than 50% for 50 games, and out for another 30 or 40 games. It just seems to make sense that when you have a lineup that can absorb a DL stint, that you should take advantage of it and get better. Make use of the Yankees' depth and heal.

2007-04-24 15:04:42
29.   seamus
28 I would generally agree that an injury that continues to nag like that, and where rest will do some good, a DL stint makes sense. I think pride gets in the way.
2007-04-24 15:10:31
30.   Vandelay Industries

Agreed. Isn't Torre supposed to take the blame for the hurt pride and do what is best for the team? In this case, to DL Damon. Posada has never been on the DL either, but I dont remember him going through a period of months where he was playing 3 out of every 6 games, while playing at 50% and not helping the team, the way JD is now. The reality is that Melky is a serious upgrade in Center defensively, and we are scoring runs without JD. I think its better to do it now rather than later when we might have other offensive guys who are out. I guess it just makes sense to me from a management perspective.

2007-04-24 15:15:14
31.   Zack
I am excited to have the Wanger back, but his Tampa #'s do keep me in check, considering that their lineup is just the type to give him trouble: lots of speed means more pressure on the D to convert those grounders. But lets hope that its all moot and we can get some of those patented 6 pitch, 3 ground out innings tonight!
2007-04-24 15:15:52
32.   seamus
30 damon is playing tonight. as is Phelps! Offensively, we have quite the lineup for Wang tonight..
2007-04-24 15:16:48
33.   BklynBmr
It's Phelps tonight, according to LoHud...
2007-04-24 15:16:52
34.   seamus
"Alex Rodriguez, in a fairly long pre-game interview, said he would stay in New York." - Peter Abrham (Lohud blog)

I wonder if he said that he won't opt out. That is like music to these ears....

2007-04-24 15:20:51
35.   Vandelay Industries

Do we have another catcher in the minors who could do as "well" as Nieves? I would seriously give the idea of starting Phelps behind the dish on Jorge's days off a thought if I were Brian Cashman. I've said this before, but Nieves cannot throw runners out, cannot hit, and isn't any better than average at blocking the plate. What is the benefit to having him on the squad, if not defense, which he doesn't have either?

2007-04-24 15:21:07
36.   LI yankee
34 I just read that as well. Can't wait to hear the audio and hear what he said exactly.
2007-04-24 15:22:31
37.   Vandelay Industries

He didnt say "I've always admired Willy Randolph," did he? Just kidding.

2007-04-24 15:25:11
38.   sam2175
34 As much as I like A-Rod, I won't be sweating over what he says today, neither would I hold him to these statements when he is at an obvious high. We will find out at the end of the season what he really wants to do.

The problem is, NY media will. He might have made a tactical mistake saying that.

2007-04-24 15:26:21
39.   Vandelay Industries

Seriously? No way. Arod may have let something silly come out of his mouth, you don't say.

2007-04-24 15:26:45
40.   seamus
35 I'm not as down on Nieves as you are, but I also think we might be better off using Phelps as a platoon 1B and backup catcher. I really like that notion as it frees up a roster spot for another player with hitting ability and speed. Or another reliever.
2007-04-24 15:33:13
41.   thelarmis
32 yes indeed, a great lineup tonite! and wang's return! and no iwamura. here's the order:

Damon CF
Jeter SS
Abreu RF
Rodriguez 3B
Giambi DH
Matsui LF
Posada C
Cano 2B
Phelps 1B
Wang RHP

2007-04-24 15:34:30
42.   thelarmis
not sure if it was mentioned on another thread from today (sorry if i'm repeating...), but according to pete abe, hughes wanted his spring training number 65. he was offered #19. KT was sent down, Melk was never even discussed...


2007-04-24 15:38:30
43.   seamus
pete abe just confirmed that arod said he is staying (without hesitation or qualification). I realize as noted above that he could change his mind, but i'm going to go ahead and just be happy!
2007-04-24 15:47:02
44.   JimCobain
ARod said, "I want to stay in New York." I want to win the lotto, but it probably won't happen... you know?
2007-04-24 15:49:00
45.   rockymtnyankee
C-mon, CMW....Kill some worms tonight!
2007-04-24 15:49:01
46.   seamus
44 oh, that isn't new. he said that in spring training.
2007-04-24 15:54:10
47.   JimCobain
46 There is no point in asking him, not that A-Rod is a bad guy, in fact he might truly want to stay. But you never know what will happen when Boras whispers in his ear, "hey Alex you want $175 million from the Cubs?" I can't begrudge someone for taking more than $80 million in guranteed money. What Alex has to ask himself is, what will his legacy be? The best player of his generation. Or the best player of his generation who always jumped at the money first and everything else second. If it were me, I would take the $250 million I signed for and just be considered "the best player of my generation" without any caveats.
2007-04-24 15:57:16
48.   seamus
47 well, i was surprised he did say anything concrete, but he didn't really. It just isn't in his own best interests.
2007-04-24 15:57:29
49.   vockins
What the hell happened to the Angels bullpen? Straight to hell in a handbasket.

I would appreciate a Yanks bashing BBRod game.

2007-04-24 15:58:10
50.   Vandelay Industries

Exactly. Look, Manny is the only player (maybe Sheffield) moronic enough, and Boston fans the only fans dumb enough, to accept a player who says two years in advance that he isn't coming back.

If a Yankee player said "I am gone after this year, no matter what," like Manny did (2 years), he would get booed even if he hit 50 HR in April, and rightfully so. I give Arod credit for not stirring the pot during the season. Manny on the other hand should be swallowed by the Green Monster and never heard from again, he's bad for baseball.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-04-24 16:00:21
51.   Vandelay Industries

They're not cheating anymore. I would guess Donnelly preceeded an internal MLB investigation and the team got a talking to. Mike S. knows how to cheat, he taught Dodger pitchers well. Then again, it could be a conspiracy theory.

2007-04-24 16:11:40
52.   Shaun P
41 I'll be darned, Phelps is playing. Let's see if it happens again tomorrow.
2007-04-24 16:12:52
53.   Simone
Baseball gods, please let Derek be okay.
2007-04-24 16:13:11
54.   seamus
you tampa fracker
2007-04-24 16:15:09
55.   seamus
ok. the tampa announcer now thinks jeter may have been acting. fracker.
2007-04-24 16:16:08
56.   Simone
Time to start hitting the other teams. Too much pitching inside and hitting the Yankees' hitters.
2007-04-24 16:16:53
57.   LI yankee
56 None of our pitchers do that though.

Unless we get the Rocket...

2007-04-24 16:19:08
58.   Simone
Notice how Kazmir is trying to pitch away from Alex.
2007-04-24 16:19:46
59.   seamus
he completely avoided arod.
2007-04-24 16:20:36
60.   rockymtnyankee
Are we going to have to listen to those !@#$%^&*()_+ cowbells again tonight?
2007-04-24 16:22:26
61.   rockymtnyankee
None of the Yanks' swings looked good in the 1st.
2007-04-24 16:22:48
62.   tommyl
I have to say, Girardi is a phenomenal announcer. Really great insight on all the little nuances of the game, well backed up. I really enjoy listening to him.
2007-04-24 16:24:32
63.   JimCobain
Well I hope Derek is just down for today...
2007-04-24 16:24:56
64.   rockymtnyankee
{62} And a good manager, too......Past and Future.
2007-04-24 16:25:21
65.   seamus
crap. we get matsui back and lose jeter? WTF?
2007-04-24 16:26:20
66.   seamus
good start by wang. 1 up, 3 strikes, 0 balls, 1 ground out.
2007-04-24 16:26:22
67.   Zack
Well, a grounder is a good sign! Ugh, Cairo in, please don't be hurt DJ!
2007-04-24 16:26:43
68.   JimCobain
It is so nice to see the Wanger back out there.
2007-04-24 16:26:49
69.   Javi Javi
I missed the last inning--what happened to Jeter?
2007-04-24 16:27:08
70.   Zack
Two ground balls, me likey!
2007-04-24 16:27:12
71.   Simone
Another ground ball. Wang is having a good start.
2007-04-24 16:27:15
72.   seamus
69 HBP just above the knee.
2007-04-24 16:28:13
73.   Javi Javi
72 thanks. Well, bruised quad--hopefully not too bad.
2007-04-24 16:28:52
74.   randym77
57 Bruney does.
2007-04-24 16:29:58
75.   nemecizer
Just logged into gameday and I see Cairo is in for Jeter.


2007-04-24 16:30:08
76.   JimCobain
Welcome home CMW!
2007-04-24 16:31:06
77.   Javi Javi
75 I just asked the same thing. HBP above the knee.
2007-04-24 16:31:07
78.   nemecizer
Nice inning by Wang. 2GBS and a K. Too bad about the line drive.

Still 12 pitches to close it out. That makes me feel warm and fuzzy.


2007-04-24 16:31:30
79.   Zack
hey, a K! Nice inning Wanger, lets have 7 more just like it!

By the by, I noticed in his few spring treaining starts and his rehabs that Wang was striking out a few more guys, so lets hope that continues. If he can throw in 5-7 ks per game in addition to that sinker, then we relly have an ace!

2007-04-24 16:31:57
80.   nemecizer
77 Ugh, that could be bad. Hopefully just a bruise. Did it hit the knee? I saw he was HBP.
2007-04-24 16:32:30
81.   Simone
Kazmir hit Derek on the right thigh. It was loud and looked very painful. Joe and the trainer came out to look at Derek. He stayed in to reach base, but was out for the next inning.
2007-04-24 16:32:55
82.   nemecizer
79 Agreed. That was always the thing that concerned be about Wang, his low k/9 rate. If he can get that up he is a true ace.
2007-04-24 16:33:33
83.   Zack
Never knew there were Kazmir Krazies...
2007-04-24 16:33:51
84.   Simone
I didn't think that the ball hit Derek's knee, just above.

Matdui-san is back!!!

2007-04-24 16:34:28
85.   Simone
84 Make that Matsui-san.
2007-04-24 16:34:30
86.   seamus
MATSUI!!!!!!! That was great! Welcome back buddy!
2007-04-24 16:34:33
87.   Jim Dean
What the funk? So close for a perfect lineup then Cairo!

My god...

2007-04-24 16:34:44
88.   Zack
Of course craps out right before that HR, yay Matsui!
2007-04-24 16:35:04
89.   its430
Matsui teaches Kazmir a thing or two about honor.
2007-04-24 16:35:19
90.   nemecizer
81 The thigh is muscle so it is less likely there is structural damage to the limb, which is always the worry in a HBP. If it did hit him on the muscle then he might have a bad contusion for a few days but it won't be long term thing. If it hit the joint that's another issue.

Fingers are crossed, and I'll stop posting in caps now.

2007-04-24 16:36:12
91.   seamus
damn crapped out.
2007-04-24 16:36:13
92.   nyyfan22
88 Mine stayed on.

Hey, did you guys notice that the psych-out cowbell dude was doing it in the bottom of the 1st when the home team was up, too?


2007-04-24 16:36:28
93.   nemecizer
And Jorge reaches safely. This is a good start to the inning!
2007-04-24 16:38:23
94.   its430
Cano, what are you doing swinging at that junk?
2007-04-24 16:39:43
95.   its430
92 There are probably two guys with them. One a Rays fan (they do exist!), the other a NY-transplant.
2007-04-24 16:40:23
96.   seamus
Phelps hits it hard again. He has to keep playing.
2007-04-24 16:42:46
97.   seamus
so cairo leads off the 3rd. bummer.
2007-04-24 16:42:59
98.   nemecizer
Kazimir at 39 pitches after 2 innings. 20 strikes, 19 balls. We should hit this guy this game.
2007-04-24 16:43:06
99.   thelarmis
89 that's awesome!

i'm just getting in. no game on tv - just braves. hope derek's okay. i was salivating at our lineup. now cairo - ugh. nice on the HR.

boston tied at 1 after 2...

2007-04-24 16:43:30
100.   seamus
97 torre sucks!
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-04-24 16:44:26
101.   Javi Javi
100 in all fairness, Jeter getting hurt is not really Torre's fault. Who else are they going to put in?
2007-04-24 16:44:56
102.   seamus
100 no he doesn't!
2007-04-24 16:45:27
103.   seamus
101 ignore me. it was quiet so i wanted to start a debate with myself!
2007-04-24 16:46:15
104.   Javi Javi
103 hope you win.
2007-04-24 16:47:08
105.   seamus
104 i hope so too. i drive myself crazy with my illogical negativity.
2007-04-24 16:47:16
106.   JimCobain
Wang was filthy on that AB.
2007-04-24 16:47:59
107.   Javi Javi
Who said CMW doesn't get K's? Awesome start thus far . . .
2007-04-24 16:48:28
108.   JimCobain
Awesome... the sound mixer just moved the cowbell to my rear channels, which is right by my head, I hate Tampa Bay.
2007-04-24 16:50:18
109.   nyyfan22
Danggit. Where's the ground balls?
2007-04-24 16:51:20
110.   JimCobain
109 Right there!
2007-04-24 16:51:53
111.   zanderthegreat
I just got in, how's it going?
2007-04-24 16:51:55
112.   seamus
109 right there. they've been there so far.
2007-04-24 16:52:09
113.   DougP
Gosh, I missed CMW. Glad to have him back.
2007-04-24 16:53:56
114.   Javi Javi
OK. Last night I watched the first inning at the office on as I wrapped up my day. I thought to myself, "Igawa looks OK and we are already up a run--great. We should win this one" Then I got home, turned on the TV and we were down. I'm scared to leave the office and go home, but here I go . . .
2007-04-24 16:54:17
115.   Simone
Now that was a sad out.
2007-04-24 16:54:26
116.   Zack
Why so many darn bunts without men on base?
2007-04-24 16:54:36
117.   tommyl
64 The more I listen to him, the more I think he'd be a great manager for the Yankees. He understands NY, and he really, really seems to understand the game. He's also calm, and separates a players attitude/trying and his abilities.
2007-04-24 16:55:10
118.   thelarmis
2007-04-24 16:55:44
119.   thelarmis
bases loaded for big hurt, 1 out...
2007-04-24 16:58:11
120.   Zack
Geez, A-Rod is clearly done, better trade him now!
2007-04-24 17:04:37
121.   seamus
2007-04-24 17:04:39
122.   Zack
Hello? Hello? Echo?
2007-04-24 17:05:35
123.   Zack
Anudder nice one for the Wanger...
2007-04-24 17:07:32
124.   Zack
Did everyone on the Banter simultaneously go get something to drink or something?
2007-04-24 17:08:19
125.   Zack
I'm just going to keep talking to myself, its far better than doing my work, which is a bad sign. Soooo, how bout that A-Rod, eh?
2007-04-24 17:08:22
126.   seamus
124 i actually got dinner and came back. i thought there would be more folks here for the wang game.
2007-04-24 17:09:48
127.   LI yankee
Wow, some strange people in Tampa Bay.
2007-04-24 17:09:56
128.   seamus
ok. they just showed the devil ray "pimp".
2007-04-24 17:10:21
129.   JimCobain
I just spill something all over my couch... That's why I've been away.... I blame the cowbell...
2007-04-24 17:10:47
130.   seamus
wow. that was an out but matsui is hitting it hard tonight.
2007-04-24 17:11:37
131.   thelarmis
doc halladay just struck out fat papi. jays up 4-2.

i wish i could see the yanks game. just watching crappy internet scoreboard. braves on tbs.

i was enjoy seamus and zack talking to themselves!

2007-04-24 17:14:59
132.   Zack
yeah, thank God people returned, it was getting ugly...The next step was singing to myself, and no one wants that
2007-04-24 17:17:27
133.   Simone
127 You have no idea. The crowd at the game is only a tiny sample.
2007-04-24 17:19:08
134.   Simone
He was freaking out!!!! Screw the ump!
2007-04-24 17:19:39
135.   claybeez
A SS' arm Cairo does not possess.
2007-04-24 17:19:43
136.   seamus
way way way out. frackin cheats
2007-04-24 17:20:10
137.   nyyfan22
Even the DRays' TV announcers agree.

OUT - by a ½ step.

2007-04-24 17:21:13
138.   JimCobain
Second time in 2 games Jorge has blown an out at home... man the Yankees are snake bit.
2007-04-24 17:21:23
139.   Simone
Ugh. Matsui didn't make an accurate throw there. He could have gotten Wigginton.
2007-04-24 17:21:55
140.   claybeez
Yahoo says Wang at 39 pitches. Not sure of that was before the start of the inning.

Posada not handlng that hop again.

2007-04-24 17:22:09
141.   nyyfan22
139 Think it would've been an out if Melky was in LF?
2007-04-24 17:22:16
142.   thelarmis
this is fun, huh? : /
2007-04-24 17:22:56
143.   JimCobain
141 Matsui's throw was perfect, beat the runner and towards the 3B side of the plate... it bounced and Jorge missed it. That simple.
2007-04-24 17:23:17
144.   thelarmis
and lowell goes deep again. this time off doc. 4-3 jays...
2007-04-24 17:23:22
145.   claybeez
139 Really? I thought for Mats it was a good throw. Not sure he can do better.
2007-04-24 17:23:57
146.   its430
That was Jorge's fault definitely. Exact same thing as the other night, he probably took his eye off of it too early.
2007-04-24 17:24:08
147.   seamus
ccrap. been working on something for work - a new brochure and i just lost it and i don't even know how. it was saved but now it is gone. looks like i'm running the recovery software!
2007-04-24 17:24:16
148.   Simone
141Melky has a stronger and more accurate arm so yeah, it probably would have been an out. Jorgie was there to block the plate, but the ball went to his right.
2007-04-24 17:25:06
149.   DougP
Can't believe they gave Matsui the error. He made a good throw. Jorge misplayed the bounce off the dirt in front of the plate.
2007-04-24 17:25:22
150.   JimCobain
147 That software work for the Yankees pitching staff? ;)
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-04-24 17:25:53
151.   seamus
148 it was a perfect throw in my opinion. just slightly to his right. the ball bounced over his glove.
2007-04-24 17:26:06
152.   claybeez
I don't like the runs coming across, but remember when Wang was never able to stop the bleeding? More K's, not allowing the big inning, there is a lot to be excited about.
2007-04-24 17:26:14
153.   thelarmis
someone get in touch with Javi Javi and tell him to go back to the office straight away!
2007-04-24 17:26:28
154.   seamus
150 might as well. frackin InDesign. I've never had trouble with it before.
2007-04-24 17:27:17
155.   OldYanksFan
143 145 How you guys ever played baseball? That was an in-between hop, which can skid low or hop high. It's a very hard hop to read. Same with the one last night.It was a 'good' throw, but ideally, show have been 10-20 shorter, or on a fly. There are few things harder to catch then an in-between hop.
2007-04-24 17:28:11
156.   JimCobain
Well Wang 55 through 4. If he goes 7 and gives up 4 are we happy? I think so, cause that mean we probably SHOULD win.
2007-04-24 17:29:04
157.   thelarmis
chip or skip caray (the son...), just said the jeff francoeur is the hottest hitter in all of baseball. really? i mean, really?
2007-04-24 17:30:10
158.   DougP
155 What do you mean an in-between hop? It was a one-hopper -- landed right in front of the plate.
2007-04-24 17:30:10
159.   claybeez
155 Not gonna answer the first question in order to keep the peace. Anyway, Girardi has mentioned numerous times that it's very hard in front of home plate. He has expressed that the lack of give is causing the abundantly high hops. I think in most stadiums the ball would have stayed down.
2007-04-24 17:30:10
160.   Zack
Our chance to hit Kazmir seems to have passed us by
2007-04-24 17:30:12
161.   seamus
157 really. i had no idea. i knew it wasn't a yankee. they are all slumping.
2007-04-24 17:32:51
162.   thelarmis
161 frenchy is indeed doing great, but alexander the great is unreal right now...

pretty ugly game in florida. 12 hits, 12 runs after 3...

2007-04-24 17:34:36
163.   NJYankee41
That was a nice play, but Cairo has no arm to speak of. I miss Jeter already
2007-04-24 17:34:50
164.   seamus
beautious play by cairo!
2007-04-24 17:36:41
165.   OldYanksFan
Kazmir is the real deal. How could the Mets let this guy get away?
2007-04-24 17:37:56
166.   seamus
cairo makes me nervous on those plays. but he got it done!
2007-04-24 17:38:12
167.   DougP
Pete Abe reports that Jeter has a bruised left thigh and is day to day.
2007-04-24 17:38:18
168.   OldYanksFan
I believe Cairo is really a 2ndbaseman by trade? At least that was a strong throw.
2007-04-24 17:38:28
169.   NJYankee41
165 I think it was a practical joke by Jim Duquette cause he knew the Mets were gonna get rid of him.
2007-04-24 17:39:01
170.   Joe H
Watching the game on and I'm forced to watch the Tampa broadcast. They interviewed Joe Maddon (while the game was in progress!) and he was referring to last night's game as "playoff atmosphere" that "lived up to the hype". HAHA!

Shows how spoiled we are as Yankee fans, that we can't enjoy ourselves until the real October, while every team that plays us in April treats it like their own little October.

2007-04-24 17:39:09
171.   claybeez
We need to remember how long it's taken for Kazmir to develop in the bigs when we watch Hughes go through growing pains. Not everyone explodes onto the scene like Hamels and Verlander.
2007-04-24 17:41:02
172.   seamus
best case scenario = cairo walks!
2007-04-24 17:41:11
173.   JimCobain
171 Here, here!
2007-04-24 17:43:30
174.   thelarmis
well, that sucked. c'mon alex, tie this bitch up! jays up 6-3, freddy krueger (tavarez) out of the game...
2007-04-24 17:43:59
175.   JimCobain
This is just frustrating.
2007-04-24 17:45:44
176.   seamus
apparently we now score only as many runs as the other team needs to beat us.
2007-04-24 17:47:10
177.   NJYankee41
176 Baseball's a mysterious game like that.
2007-04-24 17:49:19
178.   thelarmis
c'mon tiger, get thru the 6th. pretty please...
2007-04-24 17:50:23
179.   NJYankee41
Just what we need!
2007-04-24 17:50:36
180.   williamnyy23
oh crap...can we just fast forward to 2008?
2007-04-24 17:50:55
181.   JimCobain
Jesus. God forbid the ball finds the glove, you can't beat a team and luck at the same time.
2007-04-24 17:51:40
182.   randym77
Crap. Someone is obviously sticking pins into their pinstriped voodoo doll.
2007-04-24 17:52:30
183.   JimCobain
I would love a ground ball right here.
2007-04-24 17:53:12
184.   thelarmis
worm burning double play, thank you please.
2007-04-24 17:53:36
185.   JimCobain
2007-04-24 17:53:45
186.   DougP
2007-04-24 17:54:04
187.   JimCobain
And the runner was safe at first, I think it was a makeup call from the previous inning.
2007-04-24 17:54:15
188.   zanderthegreat
Very fortunate.
2007-04-24 17:54:19
189.   bartap74
There is now officially no reason for Scrabble to be on the roster.
2007-04-24 17:54:20
190.   williamnyy23
Did the Yankees just turn a 3-6-1? I had forgotten what those look like.
2007-04-24 17:54:30
191.   ny2ca2dc
booya! atta boy phelpsy!
2007-04-24 17:54:32
192.   C2Coke
I missed the beginning of the game. But buy, who isn't glad Wang is back!!!
2007-04-24 17:54:33
193.   LI yankee
187 Yeah we got that run back.
2007-04-24 17:54:51
194.   seamus
Cairo's throw was kind of real bad.
2007-04-24 17:54:52
195.   ny2ca2dc
130 3-6-3 i think
2007-04-24 17:55:14
196.   vockins
I think that call at first was a gift.
2007-04-24 17:55:26
197.   zanderthegreat
187 That call was already made during the yankees at bat.
2007-04-24 17:55:27
198.   Zack
Man, Phelps can do it all!

Questionable calls tonight?

And I swear, if Wang suffers any negative affect from that ball, we are officially cursed this season! We can't BUY a break when it comes to health!

2007-04-24 17:55:59
199.   thelarmis
aaaah, that's more like it!

we have a whopping TWO hits thru six. two hits.

2007-04-24 17:56:07
200.   yankz
What the hell, we finally get a good pitching performance, but so does the opposition...
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-04-24 17:56:16
201.   C2Coke
192 I mean, "boy". Not buy, just too excited.
2007-04-24 17:56:35
202.   JimCobain
195 Nope. 3-6-1, Wang covered.

Phelps nearly threw that away, it was a nice play by Cairo, but yes there is no need for Stink on this team.

2007-04-24 17:56:38
203.   Zack
Thank God Pena was dumb enough to slide!
2007-04-24 17:56:51
204.   zanderthegreat
189 like the new nickname. simplest yet.
2007-04-24 17:57:52
205.   williamnyy23
Damn I wish Abreu hadn't swung at that 2-0. That could be the turning point in this game.
2007-04-24 17:58:40
206.   thelarmis
204 the scrabble name has been around for a minute. it's my fave too...

HA! has anyone seen the manny being manny highlight yet from left field tonite? hysterical!

2007-04-24 17:58:57
207.   JimCobain
Wang can and should go 8, unless he runs into trouble.
2007-04-24 17:59:42
208.   JimCobain
Ok, they gave us an extra out, let's take advantage!!!
2007-04-24 17:59:47
209.   zanderthegreat
Yesss! I love crappy fielding. (By them, i mean.)
2007-04-24 17:59:51
210.   williamnyy23
Kazmir must be real nasty today...2-0 to Abreu and 3-1 to Matsui and they both tapped back to the mound.
2007-04-24 17:59:56
211.   BklynBmr
If there was ever a more timely 'Yankees Suck' chant, I haven't heard it...
2007-04-24 18:00:16
212.   thelarmis
wang is only at 72 pitches thru 6. torre best send him out for the 7th!!!
2007-04-24 18:00:31
213.   ny2ca2dc
202 right, ya, 3-6-1, saw on replay. silly me.

much of the reason i'm thrilled with the play is that hopefully it shows how minky's not needed

2007-04-24 18:00:31
214.   williamnyy23
206 It was a hysterical...but nothing beats the famous Manny cutoff play.
2007-04-24 18:01:21
215.   seamus
212 i hope so. wang being efficient is what we needed.
2007-04-24 18:01:47
216.   LI yankee
The breaks are starting to go our way finally
2007-04-24 18:01:48
217.   seamus
206 what did manny do?
2007-04-24 18:02:04
218.   thelarmis
214 i agree and thought the same thing. funny nonetheless!

my scoreboard has wang pitching to posada. great...

2007-04-24 18:02:14
219.   williamnyy23
215 Just have to hope is leg doesn't stiffen during the inning.
2007-04-24 18:03:01
220.   JimCobain
Nice! Thank Babe Ruth that the ball didn't bounce over the wall!
2007-04-24 18:03:15
221.   DougP
Jorgie!!! Way to make up for missing the put-out at home.
2007-04-24 18:03:19
222.   seamus
hip hip!
2007-04-24 18:03:25
223.   Zack
yay jorge!
2007-04-24 18:03:31
224.   williamnyy23
217 He intended to throw a ball into the infield on a wall ball, but it wound up landed about 10 feet from where he was standing.
2007-04-24 18:03:37
225.   ny2ca2dc
Hip Hip! who else saw that coming

BTW, i love those espn commercials with Po, i just love seeing the guy

2007-04-24 18:04:05
226.   seamus
224 lol! i've gotta see that!
2007-04-24 18:04:15
227.   thelarmis
(wo)manny barehanded a lyle overybay shot off the monster. when he went to throw it to the cutoff man toward the infield, he darted the ball into the ground toward center field and then stood there more befuddled than normal. priceless and most certainly watching tv later to see the high(?)light!
2007-04-24 18:04:19
228.   zanderthegreat
Yeeaahh! Nice call by Torre their. Thats why he's a good manager, Joe Morgan.
2007-04-24 18:04:30
229.   thelarmis
2007-04-24 18:04:59
230.   williamnyy23
You've got to be impressed with Kazmir...another hitter's count and another weak grounder back to the mound.
2007-04-24 18:05:27
231.   Joe H
This should be the year Jorge gets the recognition he deserves. Imagine if Wil Nieves had come up in that situation? We would never have gotten swept by Boston if Jorge played.
2007-04-24 18:05:53
232.   zanderthegreat
Bye-Bye, Scrabble.
2007-04-24 18:06:01
233.   thelarmis
jorge rules and those espn commercials are excellent
2007-04-24 18:06:19
234.   seamus
bench Phelps!
2007-04-24 18:06:24
235.   ny2ca2dc
Phelps putting an exclamation point on it!
2007-04-24 18:06:24
236.   williamnyy23
Building on the letter P...a six letter word for the 1B who should be playing full-time.
2007-04-24 18:06:24
237.   Zack
2007-04-24 18:06:27
238.   Joe H
Torre needs to bench Phelps right now before Minty starts to cry.
2007-04-24 18:06:33
239.   thelarmis
jays up 9-3, no outs, top of 6
2007-04-24 18:06:44
240.   Zack
or, on the other hand, play Phelps EverYday...
2007-04-24 18:06:49
241.   bartap74
What else does Phelps need to do to get an everyday job?
2007-04-24 18:06:59
242.   williamnyy23
Great Jeter's up...oh, damn!
2007-04-24 18:07:06
243.   Joe H
I would be willing to bet anything that Phelps is on the bench tomorrow.
2007-04-24 18:07:22
244.   LI yankee
I'm telling ya, the breaks are going our way. Who made the sacrifice to the gods?
2007-04-24 18:07:39
245.   bartap74
Scrabble is a perfectly acceptable late inning replacement. Maybe the Mets want him back.
2007-04-24 18:08:13
246.   thelarmis
236 let's pitch it to torre as: P-HELPS!

jays have a 10-spot up. we really need to win this sucka...

2007-04-24 18:08:19
247.   C2Coke
How bad was Jeter's hit by pitch?
2007-04-24 18:08:23
248.   Aviezer
I never want to see Mintkewicz play again.
2007-04-24 18:08:35
249.   OldYanksFan
Wow - they're taking Kaz out? Did the Boss just send a bribe? You think Torre has a fast hook.. after breaking Damon's bat? Wow
2007-04-24 18:08:44
250.   ny2ca2dc
joined the game late (and it's killing me that i missed the first half of the wanger's start), did jeter get pegged by a liner or something? saw on pete abe he had a bruised thigh?
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2007-04-24 18:08:52
251.   williamnyy23
Damn I wish we had El least for the two months during the season that he stays healthy.
2007-04-24 18:09:10
252.   DougP
247 I'd expect Jeter to play tomorrow.
2007-04-24 18:09:16
253.   Aviezer
244 we sacraficed Mientkewicz, the best use we could get out of him.
2007-04-24 18:09:18
254.   thelarmis
so, boomer and randolph johnstone (nomaas) will be the oldest pitching matchup in MLB history later on tonite...
2007-04-24 18:10:45
255.   williamnyy23
249 He was at about 110 pitches...hardly a quick hook.
2007-04-24 18:11:28
256.   williamnyy23
Jeter was hit by a fastball just above his knee. He has a bruised thigh.
2007-04-24 18:13:08
257.   thelarmis
251 i was thinkin the same thing before. 7 shutout innings of 3 hit ball. he's looked good thus far.

252 yeah, i'm sure jetes will play manana...

and there's scrabble in for 'defensive purposes' ugh. melky in center for the same. so now, when the pen gives up the lead, we'll have cairo, stinky and melkdud at the plate. wonderful.

at least tiger is still in...

2007-04-24 18:13:26
258.   williamnyy23
Oh no...back to Vizcaino! Can't we give the man a little rest?

The Yankees should be actively shopping Farnsworth to the Phillies or some other team who needs a reliever. If he is going to sit smiling in the bullpen, he isn't of much use.

2007-04-24 18:13:58
259.   Zack
Holy crap, why the heck is Viz up in the BP?? Why, Joe, why???

Farnsworth hasn't ptiched in forever, and Henn is more rested. Viz has pitched a gabillion innings this season already!

2007-04-24 18:14:17
260.   nick
man, I hope that hit makes Phelps one of Joe's guys-
2007-04-24 18:14:52
261.   DougP
Please, not Vizcaino. He pitched an inning yesterday. Can't Wang pitch the 8th? What's his pitch count?
2007-04-24 18:14:53
262.   3rd gen yankee fan
It's truly shameful the way Joe keeps using Vizcaino. Give the guy a break.
2007-04-24 18:15:15
263.   C2Coke
252, 256 Thanks. I will be watching the beginning of the game right after it ends!
2007-04-24 18:15:23
264.   its430
Holy crap. Talk about mixed messages. Phelps knocks in the go-ahead single, and gets benched less then 10 minutes later.
2007-04-24 18:15:34
265.   ny2ca2dc
256 thanks

a K! a K!

well, this one is wrapped up, now that MKZ is in, we're perfection. i assume damon was pulled to save his knees/back etc.

2007-04-24 18:15:53
266.   Zack
Please Joe do not pull Wang now
2007-04-24 18:15:55
267.   thelarmis
i guess Viz is living up to his "Daily" nickname... : ~
2007-04-24 18:16:30
268.   Simone
Damn, the lead is about to disappear yet again. Sickening.
2007-04-24 18:16:40
269.   claybeez
Any word on why Farns is getting absolutely no work? And what Torre has against Vizcaino's arm?
2007-04-24 18:16:44
270.   DougP
Jeez, Cairo almost pulled a Manny with that throw home.
2007-04-24 18:16:49
271.   williamnyy23
Just so I don't get accused of second guessing, here is Viz' workload:

April 19 - 33 pitches
April 20 - 10 pitches
April 22 - 18 pitches
April 23 - 20 picthes

Does anyone else here agree that he might not be the right guy to bring in?

Guess it doesn't matter...looks like the Yankees are just going to find a way to lose anyway.

2007-04-24 18:16:49
272.   JimCobain
The baseball gods don not want this team to feel good about itself right now.
2007-04-24 18:16:54
273.   Zack
Ok, I still say leave in the Wanger, as Viz we KNOW will give up these runs...blah
2007-04-24 18:17:41
274.   yankz
Ok, fire Torre.
2007-04-24 18:18:09
275.   DougP
I have a bad feeling about this. Can't we just win this one game?
2007-04-24 18:18:18
276.   rsmith51
I would leave Wang in.
2007-04-24 18:18:33
277.   C2Coke
Torre doesn't think Wang can handle them anymore? I thought he can throw a few more...
2007-04-24 18:18:37
278.   Zack
Ok, I 100% refuse to watch this. This is beyond belief. Anyone defending Torre's use of the BP now? I know he sucks, but farnsworth is avaialble. he can't be any worse than Viz has been or will be. ANd just because Henn is a lefty doesn't mean you can't freaking use him...
2007-04-24 18:18:42
279.   claybeez
I'm really hoping pulling Damon had something to do with Damon just not being able to go. And since when is the 7th the time for the LIDR with a one-run lead?
2007-04-24 18:18:42
280.   seamus
271 torre really does suck. why is he trying to lose games? This scrubs in for phelps, damon, giambi crap has failed to work every single time. way too early joe. way too early.

and now vizcaino who has looked exhausted for DAYS.

2007-04-24 18:18:44
281.   ny2ca2dc
oh god. this is getting painful... if we lose this because viz spits the bit (again) and the 'defensive replacements' can't hit (as usual), this will go down as a torre loss - and I'm usually one saying ya can't blame him for most of the shit
2007-04-24 18:19:09
282.   vockins
If Vizcaino gets out of this without a run, I'll be as shocked as the ARod v. Indians walk off.
2007-04-24 18:19:09
283.   Joe H
It is pretty sad how desperate all of us are right now for a win against the Devil Rays in April.
2007-04-24 18:19:12
284.   JimCobain
Been reduced to hoping that they don't scroe more than 2 runs in this inning. This is just awful.
2007-04-24 18:19:37
285.   AbbyNormal821
...good God, what are they doing? Sh*, F, SH**!!!!!
2007-04-24 18:19:38
286.   williamnyy23
Wow..back to Viz...incredible. Also, take a look at how the bottom of the 9th lineup is shaping up...Cabrera, Minky and Cairo. Did Torre really think the game was over with a 3-2 lead?

Any Torre defenders have an answer for this one?

2007-04-24 18:19:55
287.   seamus
why do you pull the sinker pitcher to walk the bases loaded?
2007-04-24 18:20:05
288.   Zack
if we were going to wlak Baldelli anyway to try and get the DP, why not let Wang do it?
2007-04-24 18:20:09
289.   Joe H
I can't wait to watch Mientkiewicz pop out to end the game!!
2007-04-24 18:20:25
290.   JimCobain
OK, so we take out Wang, walk a guy to play for a double play, which is Wang's specialty. I DON'T GET IT!!!
2007-04-24 18:20:49
291.   Simone
I am believing that this is going to work because I can't believe anything else.
2007-04-24 18:20:59
292.   AbbyNormal821
Why isn't Farnsy playing...EVER? Cripes, why not just give him a set of pom-poms and make him their honorary cheerleader???
2007-04-24 18:21:03
293.   rsmith51
Why not bring in Mariano? He could save the game right now.
2007-04-24 18:21:06
294.   3rd gen yankee fan
Well this promises to be exciting.
2007-04-24 18:21:24
295.   C2Coke
Ok, unless they are a bit worry with Wang's hit by pitch, otherwise, why take him out when Wang said he was ready to throw 100 pitches yesterday?
2007-04-24 18:21:28
296.   Simone
He can't even find the freaking plate.
2007-04-24 18:21:37
297.   JimCobain
great. 2-0. Unreal.
2007-04-24 18:21:42
298.   Zack
293 Hahahaha, good one, we all know the possibilites of THAT happening...
2007-04-24 18:21:52
299.   seamus
oh yeah. did i mention that viz has NO control.
2007-04-24 18:22:10
300.   Zack
Oh yeh, load the bases for the guy who walks a lot of guys...great
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2007-04-24 18:22:25
301.   Joe H
I can't wait to see how Don Mattingly manages this team come June.
2007-04-24 18:22:35
302.   Zack
I really think Viz's arm is going to fly off on any of these pitches
2007-04-24 18:22:40
303.   Simone
I can't look.
2007-04-24 18:22:47
304.   monkeypants
290 Yeah, I have never understood why you bring in a player to throw an IBB.
2007-04-24 18:23:14
305.   JimCobain
I am starting to think that Torre was so rattled by almost being fired last year that he is managing desperate, thinking a bad month will mean he's fired.
2007-04-24 18:23:18
306.   rockymtnyankee
I usually defend Joe, but I can't defend this....Hope it works, but anyone else worried about a bases loaded walk or a fat pitch?
2007-04-24 18:23:19
307.   rsmith51
If you are trying for the DP, leave Wang in. This is retarded.
2007-04-24 18:23:25
308.   AbbyNormal821
OK - everybody...use your telekinetic Vulcan mind-meld to will Viz to get the batter to ground into an inning ending double play.

...then again, F**K it, let him walk in the tying run.

2007-04-24 18:23:55
309.   AbbyNormal821
Go Cairo!
2007-04-24 18:23:55
310.   Zack
Gee, I sure know what is coming here...
2007-04-24 18:23:55
311.   Mattpat11
2007-04-24 18:24:03
312.   thelarmis
needed a wang walk then worm burner. i agree. this one's on torre right now.
2007-04-24 18:24:08
313.   AbbyNormal821
2007-04-24 18:24:09
314.   Simone
Unfreakingbelieveable!!!! Cairo!
2007-04-24 18:24:15
315.   zanderthegreat
That play stopped my heart for a bit!
2007-04-24 18:24:22
316.   JimCobain
2007-04-24 18:24:39
317.   Zack
Umm, that was not what I expected, at least the being caught part...lucky lucky lucky
2007-04-24 18:24:40
318.   Mattpat11
2007-04-24 18:24:46
319.   rsmith51
I would really like to win tonight. But it could also reaffirm Torre's stupid moves.
2007-04-24 18:24:52
320.   rockymtnyankee
Dodged a bullet there!
2007-04-24 18:24:57
321.   Simone
Please tell me not Proctor.
2007-04-24 18:24:59
322.   AbbyNormal821
I think Joe should get he should walk up to the mound when his relievers mess up and bitch-slap them before sending them to the showers!
2007-04-24 18:25:18
323.   Zack
Whos comign in?
2007-04-24 18:25:22
324.   LI yankee
At this point the gods are just laughing at us.
2007-04-24 18:25:36
325.   thelarmis
whew! one more out. halloween time. anyone else scared?
2007-04-24 18:25:39
326.   JimCobain
does Torre get paid per pitching change? Just like Friday he is turning a really nice start into a 5 pitcher game.
2007-04-24 18:25:50
327.   3rd gen yankee fan
322 Who's gonna bitch-slap Joe?
2007-04-24 18:26:00
328.   rsmith51
319 Who am I kidding? I want Torre's stupid moves to work out.
2007-04-24 18:26:33
329.   ny2ca2dc
i suppose the theory (not that i agree with it) was that wang was getting his pitches up and guys were smoking it to the outfield (and they were, if navaro could run at all it would be a tie game) hence wang is gasses & ya gotta bring in somebody.

but christ, now who the fuck is going to pitch the 8th? procter, AGAIN? Farns? haven't we been there... oye vey...

2007-04-24 18:26:41
330.   JimCobain
too much to ask for a one pitch pop out here?
2007-04-24 18:26:45
331.   monkeypants
327 Zimmer
2007-04-24 18:27:03
332.   zanderthegreat
ooh, it just started again.
2007-04-24 18:28:37
333.   zanderthegreat
2007-04-24 18:28:39
334.   Simone
Fuck!!! Can't win for shit.
2007-04-24 18:28:51
335.   seamus
thanks torre!
2007-04-24 18:28:57
336.   tommyl
Can we PLEASE get rid of Mike Myers now?
2007-04-24 18:29:10
337.   Zack
Now who was i arguing with yesterday about why Myers sucks? THATS WHY!


2007-04-24 18:29:12
338.   JimCobain
Just when you think it can't get any worse.
2007-04-24 18:29:26
339.   C2Coke
Sigh...why does Torre have to make this a dejavu all over again? Wang's quality start had to be wasted? Even I am mad tonight.
2007-04-24 18:29:34
340.   randym77
Thanks a lot, Mike. :-P
2007-04-24 18:29:36
341.   Mattpat11
Fire Torre.
2007-04-24 18:29:36
342.   seamus
i am really getting pissed. this is terrible managing. absolutely terrible. I have generally given torre somewhat of a pass. I don't expect him to do what i think he should do, but this was just awful.
2007-04-24 18:29:42
343.   williamnyy23
Thank you Joe. He really needs to be fired. That's not an irrational's cold, hard reality.
2007-04-24 18:29:47
344.   bartap74
So, now we're down 3 and all the scrubs are in the lineup. Yay.
2007-04-24 18:29:50
345.   zanderthegreat
333 what I meant was WHAT THE F*K! S*T!
2007-04-24 18:30:06
346.   3rd gen yankee fan
bitch-slappin time.
2007-04-24 18:30:14
347.   claybeez
Glad we've get Minky warmed and ready for the big rally...
2007-04-24 18:30:22
348.   AbbyNormal821
324 I think the gods are wetting themselves with laughter now.
327 I'll volunteer! I'm usually a supporter of Torre, but this is complete bullsh*t!
2007-04-24 18:30:24
349.   monkeypants
So, when was the last time a move worked? I'm not blaming Torre or anyone--I am just asking honestly, does anyone remember the last tactical move that paid off?
2007-04-24 18:30:45
350.   yankz
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2007-04-24 18:30:47
351.   rsmith51
Crap. Should have left Wang in. Why is a roster spot wasted on Myers? Does he get any lefties out?
2007-04-24 18:30:49
352.   rockymtnyankee
2007-04-24 18:30:52
353.   seamus
and now i need to remind folks that we have pulled nearly HALF of our lineup OUT OF THE GAME! Damon, Phelps, Jeter (not torre's fault) are all out. ANd while Jeter is not Torre's fault, he knew that we were stuck with Cairo when he put Melky and Minky in.
2007-04-24 18:30:59
354.   Simone
Things have got to get better. It can't go on like this for the whole season. The only good thing is the Red Sox aren't pulling away.
2007-04-24 18:31:09
355.   thelarmis
OMG. this is fucking brutal.
2007-04-24 18:31:12
356.   Zack
REmind me why Sean Henn wasnt pitching?

This is so rediculous, This push button managing is killing us! Torre could either just leave Wang out there to rest the bullpen or try for the win and make the right moves, and manages to do neither.

Sooooo, anyone else excited to see Phil Hughes on thursday?

2007-04-24 18:31:24
357.   JeremyM
Well, I'm glad Torre was able to outdo his terrible managing from Friday. I so wanted this win.
2007-04-24 18:31:25
358.   bartap74
Well, at least Joe didn't bat ARod eighth. Does that count as a successful tactical move?
2007-04-24 18:31:51
359.   williamnyy23
Nice...bring in Bruney now. Lets load some pitches on his arm.
2007-04-24 18:31:55
360.   3rd gen yankee fan
348 Yeah. I'm pretty tolerant and I've loved Joe for years. Just really don't know what the fuck he think's he's doing now. :-(
2007-04-24 18:32:04
361.   JimCobain
354 Yanks win these last two against freaking Tampa Bay and we're looking at being two out. This is getting close to disaster status.
2007-04-24 18:32:06
362.   AbbyNormal821
OK, OK...breathe, breathe...

Anyone think there's going to be a team meeting after the game if they don't come back to win?

2007-04-24 18:32:07
363.   seamus
One more thing because I am so pissed off. We needed a starter to go deep. ANd we got one. ANd now what do we havet o show for it? A rested pen? no.
2007-04-24 18:32:08
364.   tommyl
And now we have Melky and Minky in instead of Phelps and Damon, all so we could pinch run? Are you kidding me?
2007-04-24 18:32:20
365.   Simone
What kind of loogy is Myers? Not a good one.
2007-04-24 18:32:30
366.   ny2ca2dc
I'm usually go pretty easy on torre, usually thinking at least half the problem of the bullpen overuse is due to the lack of quality relievers. There's a (bad) case to be made that the lack of quality starts is killing the bullpen, but the reality is that torre is managing all season like it's the playoffs - and hence the pen is getting killed. So instead of badly losing a game or two but sparing the pen, we'll lose a lot more games by just a run or two. wonderful.

this is getting so tiresome.

2007-04-24 18:32:38
367.   Mattpat11

What? The crowd is right.

2007-04-24 18:32:46
368.   seamus
ok. breathe. breathe. 362 had to follow your lead.
2007-04-24 18:33:00
369.   Zack
Can Devil Rays fans 9if there is such a thing) really start a yankees suck chant? I mean, come on, don't they see the irony?

Sigh, except that we really DO suck

2007-04-24 18:33:03
370.   AbbyNormal821
Yay, Bruney...
2007-04-24 18:33:08
371.   Mattpat11
Are we in last place yet?
2007-04-24 18:33:18
372.   thelarmis
he won't even bring in farns now???
2007-04-24 18:33:34
373.   Joe H
Somebody needs to slip some adrenaline in The Boss orange juice tomorrow so that Cashman can't stop him from making the right move here. C'mon George, save us!

Torre should have just resigned after last year - this has to hurt his legacy.

2007-04-24 18:33:35
374.   JimCobain
second time in 5 games that Torre has wasted a quality start but a starter, tired out the pen and taken out his bats prematurely.
2007-04-24 18:33:47
375.   its430
Any chance we could hire Joe Giradi as a player coach? (Reggie Dunlop style)

Back-up catcher, and a new manager all in one!

2007-04-24 18:33:56
376.   Mattpat11
369 They're better than us.
2007-04-24 18:34:10
377.   AbbyNormal821
369 OK, now I'm laughing! Thanks for that! Not sure if it's nervous laughter, or laughing out of frustration or what...but whatever. I needed that!
2007-04-24 18:34:19
378.   Zack
Seriosuly, is Farnsworth hurt and we don't know? he pitched one inning sat, and hadn't pitched in a few before that. What gives?
2007-04-24 18:34:19
379.   yankz
2007-04-24 18:34:49
380.   rockymtnyankee
Myers certainly can not claim to be over-worked....He is WORTHLESS!!
2007-04-24 18:34:49
381.   Mattpat11
372 I'll give him credit for that. Worthless should never be in a game.
2007-04-24 18:34:57
382.   claybeez
What about Mattingly, Pena and Bowa and Guidry? Are they all just saying "Sure, Joe. Sounds like a plan." Is there anyone on the bench with the balls to teach Joe how to manage in-game so he can concentrate on managing the clubhouse.
2007-04-24 18:35:03
383.   JeremyM
375 I'm down for that.
2007-04-24 18:35:13
384.   Mattpat11
378 He sucks.
2007-04-24 18:35:46
385.   AbbyNormal821 least Boston is losing. That always cheers me up!
2007-04-24 18:36:31
386.   Zack
378 it doesn't matter if he sucks, so does everyone else at this point. What matters is that he hasn't pitched lately...
2007-04-24 18:36:47
387.   AbbyNormal821
Somebody get on base and tie this muther up (at LEAST!)
2007-04-24 18:36:56
388.   JimCobain
Abreu walk, A-Rod 2 run homer. That's all I forsee.
2007-04-24 18:36:59
389.   Simone
Two innings to try and win this sucky game. Good start, Bobby.
2007-04-24 18:37:10
390.   yankz
2007-04-24 18:37:10
391.   AbbyNormal821
...thank you, Bobby
2007-04-24 18:37:14
392.   3rd gen yankee fan
385 Hey good call.
2007-04-24 18:37:42
393.   Ramone
Hey guys,

does anyone seriously know what is up with farnsworth?

2007-04-24 18:37:48
394.   C2Coke
385 Sigh...this is the 5th game, even with Boston losing, one can't feel that cheerful.
2007-04-24 18:37:52
395.   Simone
Mo should be able to take the last two innings.
2007-04-24 18:38:52
396.   claybeez
We've got 5 hitters before Melky. Let's at least get it tied by then.
2007-04-24 18:38:56
397.   Mattpat11
386He sucks and he's no fun to watch.
2007-04-24 18:39:03
398.   AbbyNormal821
392's all I got people! I'm trying here!
2007-04-24 18:39:40
399.   JimCobain
Look, I don't want to sound obnoxious, but since when does it matter if the Sox are losing. I remember back in the late 90's when my Sox friends would say, "who cares what the Sox did today, at least the Yankees lost" I thought that was kind of pathetic. It's nice when they lose and the Yankees win. I look at every Sox lose as a wasted opportunity if don't also win.
2007-04-24 18:39:43
400.   C2Coke
393 He's busy keeping Glass company on the bench?
Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2007-04-24 18:39:49
401.   jkay
David Wells vs. Randy Johnson at 9:45.
2007-04-24 18:39:58
402.   ny2ca2dc
398 i appreciate it - and they're losing good.

and at least we were up against kazmir, who's no joke. sigh

2007-04-24 18:41:02
403.   Zack
A-Rod is flailing now
2007-04-24 18:41:31
404.   Mattpat11
Eventually we have to win by accident, don't we?
2007-04-24 18:41:39
405.   Simone
Okay, it is on Jason.
2007-04-24 18:41:55
406.   JimCobain
Try to pass the baton guys, not need to swing for the fences, yet.
2007-04-24 18:41:59
407.   3rd gen yankee fan
399 I haven't conceded this game yet.
2007-04-24 18:42:07
408.   Simone
Steal 3rd, Bobby. Desperate times.
2007-04-24 18:42:14
409.   Mattpat11
402We've had some excuse for all five of these games. At some point good teams have to win.
2007-04-24 18:42:39
410.   rsmith51
Stop swinging at BALLS!!!!!!!!!!
2007-04-24 18:42:43
411.   ny2ca2dc
409 no shit
2007-04-24 18:42:46
412.   JimCobain
407 Nor I. I was speaking in general terms.
2007-04-24 18:43:50
413.   Ramone
I'm not in front of a TV. What's the consensus? Was Wang really keeping the ball up that much?
2007-04-24 18:43:58
414.   Simone
Come on, Hideki. It is on you!
2007-04-24 18:44:26
415.   rsmith51
Has Camp thrown a strike yet?
2007-04-24 18:44:39
416.   AbbyNormal821
2007-04-24 18:44:45
417.   JimCobain
yeah Matsui!!!!
2007-04-24 18:45:01
418.   rsmith51
413 He was the best option.
2007-04-24 18:45:08
419.   Mattpat11
411 Then we should probably stop excusing these awful efforts.
2007-04-24 18:45:14
420.   williamnyy23
I don't think I can get angry any more...I am no longer going to rant against Joe. Just like I can't kill Vizcaino for Torre bring him in the game, I can't kill Joe for Cashman extending his tenure. Cashman is the man now...he is responsible for the team and he is the one dropping the ball by failing to act. If he doesn't fire Torre, I am going to shift the blame to him. He talked G.S. out of the right move last he needs to reverse course.
2007-04-24 18:45:21
421.   AbbyNormal821
We need some Posada-Power!
2007-04-24 18:45:35
422.   Mattpat11
2007-04-24 18:45:38
423.   Ramone
Hip Hip...
2007-04-24 18:45:39
424.   C2Coke
Matsui is carrying the offense today.
2007-04-24 18:45:55
425.   rsmith51
Jorge needs to win it right here. 9th will be ugly if he gets out.
2007-04-24 18:46:10
426.   Simone
409 It is probably blasphemy to say, but the Yankees may not be a good team right now. They are a team with serious pitching issues, but it is early in the season. They need to get the pitching straightened out before it is too late.
2007-04-24 18:46:10
427.   JimCobain
420 Amen, brother.
2007-04-24 18:46:11
428.   tommyl
413 No, he made a couple of bad pitches. He gave up all of two hits in the 7th, was still under 100 pitches. Its the standard Torre not trusting his starters to work out of jams late. Ah, for the days of David Cone telling him he could pitch till his arm (literally) fell off. Maybe the rest of the staff should take a page out of Mussina's book and tell him to get back in the dugout.
2007-04-24 18:46:24
429.   Simone
Let's go, Jorgie!
2007-04-24 18:46:37
430.   seamus
419 to a point, a few games don't meana lot within the context of a long season. The issue is becoming larger than a few games though, at this point. It just is appearing to feel like a trend of bad decision and bad play.
2007-04-24 18:46:38
431.   Mattpat11
So, in happier news, that Law and order show with Lilith Craine is on DVD and was pretty good.
2007-04-24 18:46:49
432.   Joe H
Jorge has to go yard right now or this game is over. Joe's Supersubs are all we've got in the 9th.
2007-04-24 18:46:53
433.   ny2ca2dc
413 with the bullpen as gassed as it was, Wang even with some pitches up was still the best option. at some point Joe has to realize that the pen is dead, and continuing to go to them will only make them worse & require more relievers & continue the cycle....

bets on that realization happening?

2007-04-24 18:47:24
434.   ny2ca2dc
419 yawn.
2007-04-24 18:48:23
435.   rsmith51
428 I think later in the season, Wang stays in. I guess because it is his first start.
2007-04-24 18:48:34
436.   williamnyy23
As if it was drawn up to make Torre look bad...the bottom of the 9th is right on schedule. If it wasn't so painful to watch, I might get a laugh from it.
2007-04-24 18:49:02
437.   seamus
we're done thanks to torre's moves in the 7th. Who do we have up in the 9th? Cano, Minky, Melky, Cairo, Abreu? It'd be nice if we could extend it to Abreu, but I'm not holding out any hope.
2007-04-24 18:49:09
438.   Mattpat11
434 I'm not the one trying to justify this because we're facing Kazmir.
2007-04-24 18:49:32
439.   Joe H
Joe should really pinch hit Nieves for Cano to lead off the 9th.
2007-04-24 18:50:09
440.   rockymtnyankee
{433} I agree......except that Myers can not be over-worked!
2007-04-24 18:50:32
441.   Ramone
420 The funny (ha ha) thing is it is like Torre picked up the disease that A-Rod had. A-Rod used to be tight and under the constant pressure to perform. Now, Torre is the guy acting like he has to perform every day (hence the over-managing).
2007-04-24 18:50:50
442.   AbbyNormal821
419 434 Hey guys, I didn't want my Bosox comment to start a verbal battle here. It was just a remark made out of frustration on my part. It wasn't meant as anything...

...extending an olive branch (or just some olives and we'll make martinis!???)

2007-04-24 18:50:52
443.   Simone
Whewww, I thought that one was gone.
2007-04-24 18:51:22
444.   LI yankee
439 Fuck it, let's bring back Terrence Long and put him in.
2007-04-24 18:52:03
445.   randym77
435 Good point.
2007-04-24 18:52:26
446.   rockymtnyankee
I wish I could work as little and as ineffectively as Myers does for $1,250,000!
2007-04-24 18:52:34
447.   Ramone
428 Man, I loved it when Mussina did that. Maybe there is no Taiwanese phrase that means "sit down, old man."
2007-04-24 18:52:34
448.   tommyl
442 I'm way past martini's, maybe some crystal meth will make this team look good?
2007-04-24 18:53:01
449.   ny2ca2dc
438 nor am i pal, just trying to look on the bright side, as signified by the 'sigh'.
2007-04-24 18:53:30
450.   williamnyy23
441 I wonder if Arod is quitely amused by Torre's misfortune...I can see him on the phone to Verducci...psst Tom..want to right another article?
Show/Hide Comments 451-500
2007-04-24 18:53:37
451.   AbbyNormal821
448 Sure, why not? Then we can hallucinate that the Yanks are winning! HEE HEE!
2007-04-24 18:54:07
452.   Ramone
Hmm, looks like that Farnsworth guy isn't too bad. WHo knew?
2007-04-24 18:54:15
453.   ny2ca2dc
what a shock, the rested guy, even though it's farns, performs pretty well
2007-04-24 18:55:01
454.   Mattpat11
449 What bright side?
2007-04-24 18:55:37
455.   tommyl
C'mon clutch scrabble! Triple word score time.
2007-04-24 18:55:56
456.   Mattpat11
452 Don't be fooled.
2007-04-24 18:55:57
457.   williamnyy23
Robinson Cano and pray for Snow.
2007-04-24 18:56:15
458.   Simone
450 Why would Alex be happy that the Yankees are losing? That is so a fan's perspective.
2007-04-24 18:56:57
459.   ny2ca2dc
454 i need to learn to stop taking your bait.

I shall try to from now on.

2007-04-24 18:57:02
460.   C2Coke
442 It's just the Banter's been a little cranky these days.
2007-04-24 18:57:51
461.   seamus
following up on 457 and the need to be distracted. With the new rules that rainouts of incomplete games will be played the next day, what happens if the team had planned to make a move after the game. ie. Let us say that Phelps hadn't been used, this game got carried over to tomorrow, but Phelps is moved after the game to AAA (no recommending it)?
2007-04-24 18:58:01
462.   Mattpat11
Good job Robbie. Maybe the ump might have blinked and missed that pitch
2007-04-24 18:58:30
463.   Joe H
D-Rays TV taunts me by accidentally overlaying "Josh Phelps" graphic while Melky is batting.
2007-04-24 18:58:37
464.   seamus
maybe minky can make the last out. somehow that would be appropriate.
2007-04-24 18:58:40
465.   AbbyNormal821
460 thanks, dude. I know. I'm just trying my best to be a happy crank-pot!
2007-04-24 18:58:46
466.   williamnyy23
458 It was a joke..lighten up...I'm trying to keep from crying amid the ashes of Joe's latest torch job.
2007-04-24 18:59:10
467.   Ramone
450 He's probably thinking that in a just world, Steinbrenner would make Torre the 3rd base coach when the playoffs start...or maybe the batboy. Not sure what the coaching equivalent to batting 8th is.
2007-04-24 18:59:31
468.   NJYankee41
I think Torre is evidence that managers much like players can go past their prime and lose their touch. I think Torre has lost that touch. He looks as clueless as a manager can out there. Its getting bad. I'm not a doomsday fan by any measure but this is just hard to watch.
2007-04-24 18:59:56
469.   C2Coke
465 That makes the two of us.
2007-04-24 19:00:02
470.   seamus
465 i'm usually very positive. but this losing streak is geting to me.
2007-04-24 19:00:36
471.   DougP
Wang had thrown 82 pitches. 82! So two balls got hit to the outfield. He's still the best bet to get the double-play and save the bullpen. Instead, we have three more pitchers come in and it's not like they'll be any more rested tomorrow. I'm just disgusted right now.
2007-04-24 19:00:39
472.   Simone
466 Okay. Guess, we all cope in different ways.
2007-04-24 19:00:45
473.   AbbyNormal821
Is it positive to say "at least Pettite is pitching tomorrow"???
2007-04-24 19:00:50
474.   tommyl
Man, its awesome that we have Minky in here.
2007-04-24 19:00:56
475.   Joe H
/me looks at 289 and moans.
2007-04-24 19:01:11
476.   Tarheel
Melky is terrible right now. He should have been set down today.
2007-04-24 19:01:18
477.   AbbyNormal821
I must watch the post-game, I can't wait to hear what Torre has to say!
2007-04-24 19:01:39
478.   Simone
Ugh. These games are freaking torture. Night all.
2007-04-24 19:01:45
479.   ny2ca2dc
468 i think you're right - batting arod 8th shows he's not the people person he might've been in the past...

minky Ks to end it. shock.

2007-04-24 19:01:53
480.   Joe H
I hope they give Joe at least 15 minutes to clean out his office. He's earned that much.
2007-04-24 19:02:03
481.   yankz
god DAMMIT torre. Thanks a lot for letting the boys go down swinging (and missing).
2007-04-24 19:02:18
482.   Mattpat11
I thought The Stink didn't K?

Oh well. Maybe they'll win tomorrow.

2007-04-24 19:02:56
483.   AbbyNormal821
I think back to the games after the 5 game sweep of Boston last year. Granted, they sucked on that road trip and yes, it was later in the season, but I have to believe it HAS to get better. Ain't nowhere to go but up when you're at rock-bottom
2007-04-24 19:03:00
484.   nyyfan22
Last place, boys.

Nowhere to go from here but up.

2007-04-24 19:03:06
485.   JeremyM
Well, as bad as Torre was tonight, Myers has got to do the freaking job there. Pathetic.
2007-04-24 19:03:20
486.   Joe H
Devil Rays broadcasters are just giddy right now, sending the Yankees to the basement.

Ironically, their play-by-play guy is Dwayne Staats, who was the Yankees TV guy in the early 90's when they were the closest thing in baseball to the D-Rays.

2007-04-24 19:03:36
487.   Tarheel
Hello last place.
2007-04-24 19:04:02
488.   AbbyNormal821
...can someone throw a ladder down here?
2007-04-24 19:04:13
489.   JimCobain
483 If this is rock bottom I'll take it. I am scared it's not though.
2007-04-24 19:04:23
490.   NJYankee41
471 I agree. I miss the days when it was a starters game to win or lose. Now managers get too cute to avoid getting them losses and such, but this should have been Wangs game to win or lose for the good of the team. And don't get me started on that crap about getting a pitcher out before he loses confidence. These are grown men out there who make millions. Staying in a game too long won't shatter any confidence. Pitchers are too babied these days and Torre is the grandmaster babysitter. End of my rant. I'm done with the Torre stuff for tonight. Lets get 'em tomorrow
2007-04-24 19:04:26
491.   Mattpat11
2007-04-24 19:05:35
492.   yankz
You can go further down.
2007-04-24 19:05:52
493.   tommyl
471 Exactly. Joe complains how badly he wants a starter to go deep. Wang had given up 2 runs, was at 82 pitches and had two runners on with an out. Wang is the nominal ace of your staff, why not let him try to work out of the jam? Then you have him in the 8th maybe, or you have bruney to rivera for the 8th and 9th. Instead, you trot out Vizcaino for his 6th appearance in 7 days, he manages to get an out, so you bring in your LOOGY who has lately failed to get any lefties out in a high leverage situation. If you want to be bold there, hell bring in Rivera, its the highest leverage situation in the game. Instead he rests, again.

On offense, I'll give him a pass on subbing for Damon, maybe he was hurting. But taking out Phelps, when he's been getting on base, htiting the ball hard and fielding well for Minky is inexcusable. It seems sometimes like Joe has a rule: When up by x runs in inning y, must make LIDR irrespective of what's going on. I mean, was he watching the game?

2007-04-24 19:06:25
494.   Tarheel
Myers needs to go. He can't get Oritz last Fri and now Crawford. He is useless. Don't blame it on Joe, he could have left Wang in, but Myers is on the team for one reason, and he did not get it done. Cut his ass.
2007-04-24 19:07:08
495.   williamnyy23
Does anyone think there's a real chance that Torre gets fired? Maybe I'm just holidng out hope for the season (or spending too much time here), but I do think a change is possible (especially if the weekend goes as bad as the last one).
2007-04-24 19:07:46
496.   yankz
Yeah, I don't blame Torre for bringing in Myers, who has pitched well and hadn't given up a HR yet. I do fault him for yanking Wang, Phelps, and Damon. It was a one freaking run lead, and with the state of our pen, it might as well be a tie game.
2007-04-24 19:08:26
497.   JMEnglish
Hard to believe that they Yankees finally had a starter who was not a double A pitchers start for them...

2007-04-24 19:08:45
498.   Tarheel
Toronto is going to be tough for the next two and then the Sox. Could very well end this week on a 10 game losing streak. But it isn't over yet........
2007-04-24 19:08:48
499.   yankz
Coddmeyer's hitting streak is over.
2007-04-24 19:09:16
500.   AbbyNormal821
Thank God I'm going to see "A Chorus Line" tomorrow night (stop laughing!). Maybe my missing a game will be a good thing!
Show/Hide Comments 501-550
2007-04-24 19:09:17
501.   Joe H
495 Torre won't be fired - Cashman keeps him in there to deflect the fact that it is Cashman who boinked up this team. If the Steinbrenners weren't in disarray, Cash and Torre would be sipping green tea on a beach in the Virgin Islands right now.
2007-04-24 19:10:07
502.   MVB
Usually, I support Torre… but tonight…

7th inning

1. Torre had decided to intentionally walk Rocco Baldelli in an effort to get the double play.
2. Torre brings in Vizcaino to get the DP.

What the heck????

Wang got more ground ball outs then ANY OTHER PITCHER IN THE MAJORS last year. He had 12 ground ball outs in the game. Brendon Harris was 0-3 WITH THREE GROUND BALL OUTS.

Wang only had 81 pitches. Why pull him?????

And let's not forget the dandy: Melky pinch-running for Phelps. Instead of Cano-Phelps-Damon in the ninth, we had Cano-Cabrera-Mientkiewicz.

2007-04-24 19:10:14
503.   JimCobain
495 Sure, it's very possible. If they go 11-19 like they did 2 years ago, I bet he gets canned or the rumors start swirling at the very least.
2007-04-24 19:10:18
504.   Jim Dean
From Blech to Stoked back to Blech.

At least I remember them starting 11 and 19

2007-04-24 19:10:28
505.   Tarheel
If the Yankees lose the next 5 (a real possibility) there is NO WAY Joe keeps his job.
2007-04-24 19:12:17
506.   yanster
1)OK, so the bullpen is dead from overuse
2)There've been only a handful of quality starts
3)The offense is the best in the majors
4)Opposing bullpen is bad, maybe among the worst
5)opposing starter is done in the 7th
6)The starting pitcher hasn't pitched much this year (and only in minor league) and he's young.
7)He's had an incredible game already - 2 runs in almost 7 innings
8)He's the most extreme groundball starter in baseball
9)The starter's pitch count is 81
10)2nd and 3rd, one out

Torre sees something that overrides ALL of that? That's pretty overwhelming.

Why not go out, talk to Wang a second - doesn't matter if he doesn't understand. Give him a chance to rest a second. Plan to give up a run with your superstar groundball pitcher and then lean on the offense to get out of the tie against a mediocre bullpen? Wang might even have pitched through the 8th. Mister Farnsfurth Occasional would get the save.

Frankly, even if it had worked out, I'd be pissed with the overuse and high tension strategy. That's not how you win season long. I'm a Torre supporter, but this was awful long before the grand slam.

2007-04-24 19:14:22
507.   Ramone
494 Yes, but did anyone think Myers was going to be sharp tonight?

As Tommyl said, you have to watch the games and pay attention to who is actually playing well. I'm actually not a big Myers basher. I think he will have his role. But he OBVIOUSLY wasn't getting it done against the Red Sox. So, why bring him in here?

It's like Rivera. I love the guy and in no way think he is losing it. But do I have the confidence in him now that I do when he is in peak form? No. Maybe he'll get there in a week or a month, but I don't lie to myself and pretend that he is there now.

2007-04-24 19:14:27
508.   Joe H
Look at these names: Jaret Wright, Carl Pavano, Mike Myers, Kyle Farnsworth, Randy Johnson, Tom Gordon, Paul Quantrill, Kei Igawa.

These are just some of the ways Brian Cashman has destroyed our pitching staff since taking over this team. If Cashman were the GM in 1995 we never would have picked up guys like Stanton, Nelson, Wells, or Cone. He has no skills in pitching talent evaluation, and so I can only blame Torre so much for having to put these schlubs in the game.

2007-04-24 19:16:34
509.   williamnyy23
508 Tom Gordon did more good than bad...remove him frm that list of dissapointments.
2007-04-24 19:18:07
510.   tommyl
Out of curiousity, what is the all time worst season for a regular first basemen? I can't imagine anyone being worse than Minky is right now.
2007-04-24 19:18:16
511.   Joe H
509 Tom Gordon vomited all over himself in the postseason, as did Randy Johnson. Mendoza, Stanton, and Nelson had the goods in both April and October.
2007-04-24 19:19:36
512.   Ramone
508 What the heck does that list have to do with the fiasco that was tonight's loss?

By all accounts, Torre had a quality pitcher at his fingertips and he took him out of the game.

Besides, Johnson was George's fault.

2007-04-24 19:20:06
513.   Joe H
Seriously, Cashman's success rate with pitching acquisitions is something like 15%. How can we keep this clown at the head of our team?

Can I add Jeff Weaver, Ron Villone, and now Humberto Sanchez to that list? It's getting pretty sad.

2007-04-24 19:21:03
514.   tommyl
509 Ditto Quantrill before Torre overused him. The guy pitched an entire season with a knee that needed surgery, and was lights out in the first half of it. RJ was a Steinbrenner move. Wright, Farnsworth and Pavano are Cashman's mistakes. Igawa is waaay too early to tell just yet, he's looked great one night and bad the next, lets wait to see.

Myers is a real mistake, not the man, but the idea of a LOOGY on a team with an old, creaky staff and Joe's style of BP management. They need to replace him with a long man.

2007-04-24 19:21:22
515.   Joe H
512 I'll tell you what that list has to do with tonight. We obviously need our GM to find some quality pitching to replace clowns like Mike Myers, and we can't exactly trust Brian Cashman to find anything good.

Seriously, do you really trust the next Mike Myers to be any better just because he has the Cashman seal of approval?

2007-04-24 19:21:57
516.   williamnyy23
511 But he helped win a lot of these regular season games that we are now pissing away.
2007-04-24 19:22:21
517.   tommyl
Listening to Girardi on the postgame, I am really pining for him to be the manager. He did a phenomenal job last year with the Marlins. The Yankees will have a lot of young kids coming up, why not? He seems to understand that sometimes you have to just let your starter work out of it.
2007-04-24 19:23:48
518.   tommyl
511 Rivera gave up the game winning hits in '97 and '01 as well. Maybe we should get rid of him? No one is perfect, Gordon was arguably the best setup man while he was with us.
2007-04-24 19:25:34
519.   Joe H
Girardi is a genius for taking that YES job.

Fans are falling in love with him while the Joe Torre era comes crumbling down, but if he is smart he won't take the job this year. This roster blows. Let Mattingly inherit Cashman's circus and get fired after this season or next season when he inevitably fails to turn it around. By 2009 the roster may be improved enough to make it safe for Girardi to take the reins.

2007-04-24 19:26:50
520.   Joe H
Defend Tom Gordon all you want but look at the rest of that list. Cashman has no taste. Is Gene Michael still around?
2007-04-24 19:28:03
521.   Ramone
513 I have to disagree with you, Joe H.

Not all of Cashman's moves have been mistakes. How about Wang? How about pulling a rotation together with Aaron Small? And Chacon?

And since when was Villone a bust? I have confidence that guy could still be a key piece of the puzzle for the Yanks this year.

If anything, Cashman can be faulted for not bringing in the #1 starter that they need. But Igawa as your #5? For the money, not a bad choice. Just don't count on him.

2007-04-24 19:32:12
522.   monkeypants
520 yeah, and let's not forget that Cashman was responsible for trading for Clemens, signing Mussina, Wang, Pettitte last offseason...oh, wait..
2007-04-24 19:32:30
523.   yankz
Jeter needs to call a closed door meeting. Why closed doors? So they can all yell at Torre.
2007-04-24 19:33:21
524.   yankz
I don't understand the Myers hate; he's been nearly unhittable so far (.115 BAA before tonight). So he didn't get Ortiz out- it's kind of hard to do. There were plenty of other Torre mistakes to point out.
2007-04-24 19:34:33
525.   Joe H
It is documented that Cashman offered Wang and Cano to Arizona, and the only reason they're still here is the D-backs rejected them.

Small and Chacon were desparation moves that worked out for a few months. Remember, Cash didn't improve the staff much after '05 because they were counting on Small and Chacon staying hot, which they obviously did not.

2007-04-24 19:36:36
526.   monkeypants
524 I agree--this season Meyers has been pretty good; he just failed tonight. More frustrating is how quickly a 82 pitch solid start gets turned into another five pitcher loss
2007-04-24 19:36:36
527.   Orly Yarly NoWai
522 Don't forget Alphonso Soriano for Alex Rodruigez. Not a pitching move, but I really don't care. Baseball is about both offense and defense, and that was a helluva move. For all the talk about how terrible we are, don't forget that the Yankees are still a good team. We'll be ok. There's no way we can NOT be ok.
2007-04-24 19:37:57
528.   Orly Yarly NoWai
And my post vanished... Blech.

I'll take Cashman over most of the GMs in the game. What he's done with the offense is nothing short of magical.

2007-04-24 19:38:30
529.   monkeypants
525 "It is documented that Cashman offered Wang and Cano to Arizona, and the only reason they're still here is the D-backs rejected them."

Doesn't this perhaps suggest that Cashman recognized their value but Arizona didn't?

2007-04-24 19:38:37
530.   williamnyy23
524 I kind of agree...Myers isn't what galls me. Vizcaino and the defensive replacements are what bother me.

Personally, bringing in Viz was incompetence. There is no way you can justify bringing him YET again. Does Torre not see the decline in his stuff as a result of repeated use? Does he not see it??

2007-04-24 19:39:19
531.   JimCobain
525 That was in 2004 when getting RJ would have meant no ALCS collapse and probably another championship. Also, we have no idea if it was Cashman or Randy Levine trying to broker a deal.
2007-04-24 19:40:29
532.   Orly Yarly NoWai
530 I'm just annoyed that our best hitters KEEP COMING OUT. Jesus, it's APRIL! Let the guys play. There's no way Giambi is so tired that he needs to be pinch-run for with a four-run lead, like happened the other night. I'm sick and tired of seeing Kevin Thompson and the scrubs come up in the ninth.
2007-04-24 19:42:06
533.   Joe H
Oh please. All Cashman did for the offense is no-brainer signings of the most expensive free agents on the market.

Matsui, Damon, Giambi, A-Rod, and Abreu all became available, and Cashman made the obvious decision to sign/trade for them. When you have the Yankees budget, those moves are obvious.

When it comes to pitching, he has had to be more clever, and has shown he has no ability to find diamonds in the rough.

2007-04-24 19:46:16
534.   Joe H
529 If Cashman recognized Wang's talent, given the Yanks pitching woes after 2004, he never would have offered him for RJ. He was too busy dreaming about when Jaret Wright would finally hit the open market.
2007-04-24 19:46:35
535.   Ramone
Joe H: If your point is that Cashman hasn't built a starting rotation that is, top to bottom, worthy of a top contender, then I'd have to agree with you.

But your attacks on the bullpen are off-base. Guys like Quantrill, Villone, Gordon, Proctor, Farnsworth, Sturtze are quality pitchers. Some were harmed, if not destroyed by Torre's overuse of his setup men.

But look arount the league. Nobody else but you and Torre expect setup guys to be aces. You want solid pitchers, sure, but get real.

2007-04-24 19:49:24
536.   monkeypants
533 Come on, the A-Rod deal did require cleverness. He was all but signed by the Sox and the Yankees came out of nowhere. The balls to give up the then very popular Soriano AND convince A-Rod to play third. If boy-wonder had thought outside of the box like that, then maybe A-Ro has a B on his cap. Phelps is a pretty good diamond-in-the rough find (not so much Stinky). Building the offense has not simply been a matter of signing the highest paid free agents, though admittedly the core of the offense over the years was the fruit of prior GMs' labor (Posada, Jeter, Williams, O'Neill).
2007-04-24 19:50:01
537.   Orly Yarly NoWai
533 He dumped a decent second baseman, who couldn't walk or play defense and was actually two years older than he said he was, for the best player in the game.

He traded four marginal prospects for an on-base machine and a very servicable fifth starter who played a pretty big role for the Yankees as a fill-in down the stretch.

He made the decision to take the CF job away from a Yankee icon and give it to one of the most despised Sawks.

Gee, it all sounds so much better when I say it.

2007-04-24 19:51:24
538.   Orly Yarly NoWai
Interesting bit at THT about Torre's decision to bring Pettitte into games as a reliever. Jason wonders why it doesn't happen more often:

Steve Treder: Well, Jason, all I can tell you is I wonder exactly the same thing. This tactic was in fact rather commonly seen in the 1950s and 1960s, but by the 1970s, it faded out and has never come back with any degree of regularity. Why?

I think it's an illustration of the culture of hyper-specialization among pitchers that has prevailed since the 1970s, and only gotten stronger. The modern mode features, to my way of thinking, an extreme concern with strictly defined, highly predictable "roles." The very apparent belief is that pitchers perform significantly better when they are allowed to do the same thing, over and over, with the greatest possible minimization of variation. My sense is that while there is some basis of truth to this notion, its importance is vastly overemphasized.

Thus we have the intense reluctance to use starting pitchers in even the most occasional relief appearance. When a starter is taking his regularly scheduled side session anyway, assuming he's healthy and feeling good, why not have him take an inning if the game situation presents itself, or face a batter or two? What exactly is the downside?

I strongly suspect the true reason this practice remains effectively extinct is nothing more sophisticated than, "Because we just don't do that." In all realms of human behavior, lots of things are handled this way. We're creatures of habit and custom, which serves the convenient purpose of forgiving us the requirement of thinking all the time.

2007-04-24 19:53:44
539.   Joe H
536 The "then very popular" Soriano?? You have a short memory. After 2003, Alfonso was in everyone's doghouse. By the end of that year, he had lost all plate discipline, swinging and missing at everything, and moping on the field after his at bats. He killed us in the world series.

Everyone knew the Yankees wanted to dump him. If the Rangers had called me about A-Rod on that fateful day, I would have offered them Soriano too without any hesitation.

2007-04-24 19:57:21
540.   Ramone
Joe H: One of the other things that sticks in my craw is that Cashman is all about signing the big free agents. It just isn't true. If there is ANYONE in the Yankee organization that is pushing the Stick Michael philosophy of building a franchise from within it is Cashman. It sure as hell isn't George or the other boys from Tampa.

You can knock the Small and Chacon moves all you want, but they were bold chances made when, in many times past, the Yankees would have just opened their wallet.

Similarly, Cashman has an eye on the future and is actually building a minor league system with some talent.

And, frankly, the Abreu/Lidle move was brilliant. But you'll probably blame Cashman for Lidle's piloting skills.

2007-04-24 20:24:31
541.   Schteeve
539 So would anyone with a functioning brain.
2007-04-24 20:30:30
542.   C2Coke
So apparently the Yanks had a pitch count limit for Wang. And he was only one pitch over 80, and took and loss.
2007-04-24 20:30:51
543.   Schteeve
I'm almost at the point where I want to write off this season.

But that's overreacting. We're all over reacting. Take a deep breath and see where we are next week. And the week after that.

But the starting pitchers need to get healthy and start eating innings like they were potato chips. Just be league average for 7 and a third for a week of two, and things will straighten out. But if that doesn't happen, this season could turn into a disaster pretty quick.

2007-04-24 21:06:09
544.   tommyl
524 Sorry if I wasn't clear before, my problem is not with Myers as a LOOGY, its with this BP having a LOOGY at all. The combination of a staff that often doesn't go deep with Joe's quick hook means a lot of innings for the BP. That means a batter guy is a luxury we just can't afford.
2007-04-24 21:23:00
545.   yankz
544 I got you. Although, Steve Lombardi is kind of making me change my mind.
2007-04-24 21:27:36
546.   Max Nomad
MAN, I just got here, but SHIT, it's like the Apacalypse! I know it sucks to lose 5 in a row, and yes Torre probably is mismanaging a bit, but there are certain factors we may not know about, and the Sox lost too. We caught a break there. Step away from the ledge! Falling hurts.....

From now on, I just skip most of the posts and read yankz, Bama, Orly, Sliced, etc.

2007-04-24 21:35:45
547.   yankz
546 Thanks for the inclusion, but you're definitely missing a few very valuable posters. I only wish I could comment more in game threads, but as much as I love this place, watching live via a proxy is so tempting...
2007-04-24 21:51:48
548.   seamus
546 just don't read my posts today. went over deep end...
2007-04-24 22:11:13
549.   yankz
I really need an A-Bomb or two tomorrow, along with 8 innings from our old friend.
2007-04-24 22:36:39
550.   yankz
CoughJimDeanAKARobGeeCough...Old Man Unit didn't pitch well at all today vs. the Fathers (6 ER, 5 IP). Actually, who am I kidding, I'd take it.
Show/Hide Comments 551-600
2007-04-24 23:26:23
551.   Zack
I've been noticing a lot of new faces around the Banter lately starting up trouble. Not that a good lively discussion isn't always welcome, but it does seem to be THE SAME discussion with THE SAME points being made over and over, and often leading to some rather grumpy posters.

So, you know, can we just cool it on the round and round about who is and isn't a great GM and why he is/isn't one? AS I have said before, it was tired and used up a few months ago...

On another note, if you really want to be masochistic, go read Bill Simmons' piece on ESPN, its even more smarmy than usual. I used to like the guy too, but his schtick has worn thin for ahwile now...

2007-04-24 23:26:53
552.   bbfan1
"Come on, the A-Rod deal did require cleverness. He was all but signed by the Sox and the Yankees came out of nowhere."

You make it sound as if boston still thought they had a chance before new york came in and stole arod. The yankees signed arod after the boston deal completely collapsed. You might want to research that deal before speaking about it.

"The balls to give up the then very popular Soriano AND convince A-Rod to play third. If boy-wonder had thought outside of the box like that, then maybe A-Ro has a B on his cap."

You have no idea what you're talking about. It was Lucchino's mouth and the refusal of the ownership to give more money that sunk the arod deal. Theo had nothing to do with it.

2007-04-24 23:27:05
553.   yankz
Just like last year, when Jeter was yanked after a few walks, his hit streak will continue. Yahoo for ridiculous silver linings!
2007-04-24 23:28:48
554.   yankz
Dem grapes be sour, I see.
2007-04-25 00:56:52
555.   bbfan1
554 Was that to me? Sour grapes would be "we didn't want arod anyway". Do you know what that phrase means?

I'd love to have seen arod in a boston uniform. If someone's going to bring why he isn't up they should know what they're talking about.

2007-04-25 04:08:53
556.   monkeypants
552 The Sox wanted their cake and eat it too with the A-Rod deal. They tried to shed a very expensive player (Manny), and get A-Rod, and finesse the money. You're right that the ownership is responsible for the money part of it, but presumably the GM had something to do with coming up with proposing the players involved. The fact remains that the Sox leadership couldn't come up with a solution. The notion that the GM had nothing to do with the deal is untenable.

You are correct that the deal had collapsed, but the Yankees still came out of nowhere, because no one thought that there was a slot on the Yanks for a second SS. Cashman (presumably) had the dexterity to come up with a somewhat novel solution. Again, no one envisioned that A-Rod would make a position change. Yeah, in retrospect the trade was no brainer, but Cashman deserves some credit for pulling the trigger. My main point is that it is unfair to criticize Cashman for bad moves but give him no credit for good moves--this is just as bad as giving him a free pass for every questionable move and blaiming it on the Tampa faction.

Thank you for telling me I don't know what I am talking about.

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