Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
Sweet and Meaty
2007-03-15 09:28
by Alex Belth

I found a link to an excerpt from Michael Morrissey's new book on the 2006 Yankees via Was Watching the other day. The chapter covers Carl Pavano's misbegotten Yankee career. Former Yankee manager Bob Lemon liked calling everyone "Meat." What do you think he would have called Pavano?

Comments (119)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-03-15 09:56:12
1.   Chyll Will
2007-03-15 09:58:53
2.   thelarmis
1 more like Tofurkey!
2007-03-15 10:03:41
3.   Jim Dean
Chopped Liver?
2007-03-15 10:05:59
4.   Sliced Bread
Sir Loin

Rump Roast

Heavy Legs O Lamb

2007-03-15 10:07:25
5.   Sliced Bread
Carl Kabob'vano
2007-03-15 10:11:40
6.   Shaun P
2007-03-15 10:11:47
7.   Chyll Will
2007-03-15 10:12:12
8.   thelarmis
the 'other' white meat
2007-03-15 10:13:43
9.   Chyll Will
Cocktail Weiner
2007-03-15 10:13:48
10.   Sliced Bread
Morty Della?

Oucho Bucco?

2007-03-15 10:16:38
11.   Sliced Bread
Mystery Meat (will he make his next start?)

Meat Loaf (emphasis on da loaf)

2007-03-15 10:16:42
12.   Yankee Fan In Boston
car-wreck ouch-no-show

that said, i'm still holding out hope.

if karstens keeps this up and knocks carl out of the rotation, however, i think his nickname should be tofu. as in, the "meat" replacement.

but... yeah... comeback carl is in the hizzy...

2007-03-15 10:17:01
13.   Chyll Will
Carl Cuts?
2007-03-15 10:18:13
14.   Chyll Will
Carlstrami on why?
2007-03-15 10:18:51
15.   Sliced Bread
2007-03-15 10:19:34
16.   Chyll Will
Pavano with Mayo Clinic?
2007-03-15 10:21:47
17.   Chyll Will
PLT? (Pavano with lettuce [money] + tomato [Allamand])
2007-03-15 10:23:51
18.   Sliced Bread
Pa'venison (roadkill style)
2007-03-15 10:26:57
19.   Chyll Will
Pavanone cheese-wiz
2007-03-15 10:28:06
20.   thelarmis
Meat Ball
2007-03-15 10:28:09
21.   Sliced Bread
2007-03-15 10:28:15
22.   thelarmis
Meat Ball
2007-03-15 10:28:57
23.   thelarmis
doh! my 1st double post. sorry guys...

y'all are too funny. esp. chyll & sliced!

2007-03-15 10:29:16
24.   Chyll Will
18 As opposed to Pa'venison (State Trooper style)?
2007-03-15 10:31:39
25.   Shaun P
I was thinking "Tongue", seeing that it is one of the least tasty cuts of meat. However, its also one of the toughest, which doesn't fit the bill. Filet mignon, on the other hand, while tender, is too much of a compliment, no?
2007-03-15 10:32:28
26.   Chyll Will
2007-03-15 10:33:58
27.   Chyll Will
25 Try some Pavanowurst...
2007-03-15 10:34:10
28.   Sliced Bread
Carl Pa'vischyssoise (you know, cold meatless zoup?)
2007-03-15 10:35:11
29.   thelarmis
Rare Meat - as in rarely cooks on the mound
2007-03-15 10:36:13
30.   thelarmis
26 pavan-regret, more like it.

27 stop making me spit water on my laptop screen!!! ; )

2007-03-15 10:36:48
31.   Sliced Bread
17 With Carl, that would be a 60 day D.L-T sandwich?
2007-03-15 10:37:05
32.   Chyll Will
JD should have been in on this one... Pavausages
2007-03-15 10:39:37
33.   dianagramr
Meatwad ....
2007-03-15 10:40:37
34.   Chyll Will
31 and lady-fingers for dessert?
2007-03-15 10:42:33
35.   Chyll Will
"The Whopper" would be apropos...
2007-03-15 10:45:52
36.   Chyll Will
Pavvalines (move over, bacon; now there's something meatier!)
2007-03-15 10:46:49
37.   Alex Belth
Yo, some of these are priceless...
2007-03-15 10:49:04
38.   Shaun P
27 That's it!
2007-03-15 10:49:39
39.   thelarmis
2007-03-15 10:50:28
40.   Sliced Bread
2007-03-15 10:50:33
41.   thelarmis
he can front a band called The Meatles.

even the royals farm team can Beat The Meatles

2007-03-15 10:54:14
42.   Sliced Bread
Carl's favorite restaurant:

"Ouchback Steakhouse"

Come for the bruised ribs, stay for the butt steak.

2007-03-15 10:57:23
43.   rbj
39 You took my line.


2007-03-15 11:00:31
44.   yankz
Meatless has to be the winner. Ah, innuendo...

Glass-Ass will forever be my favorite.

2007-03-15 11:04:29
45.   Jim Dean
Well done!

Whoops, on the names, I mean!

2007-03-15 11:05:06
46.   Jim Dean
Great interview with Sheff:

2007-03-15 11:10:04
47.   vockins
Anyone following the metal bat ban in NYC? Seems incredibly stupid to me. I can't say I follow NYC high school baseball that much, but I'd be shocked if any team in the five boroughs is spending their equipment allowance on the $600 composite bats that everyone keeps referencing in discussion about the ban.

Going all wood is going to cost a ton of money. There's a good reason there aren't many legendary NYC hockey players - because playing hockey in NYC is incredibly expensive. I won't go as far to say inner city baseball will be extinct if this gets enforced, but it sure isn't going to help the situation.

2007-03-15 11:18:04
48.   Shaun P
47 Kevin Goldstein has an interesting take on this thing in BP Unfiltered:

More kids have died in the last few years from injuries due to metal bats than have died from using PEDs/steroids. I don't see why something can't be done to increase safety and keep costs reasonable.

2007-03-15 11:18:05
49.   Raf
47 Haven't really followed up on it, other than hearing things here and there, but it's a stupid idea.

Having said that, there are composite bats that come in less than $600. There are people who will pay that much for an alumninum bat.

I don't know why they don't compromise and mandate certain bats (-3 between the length and weight of the bat, IIRC), or just outlaw certain bats like they do in my softball league.

2007-03-15 11:20:07
50.   wsporter
Sorry I'm late but I don't think Carl "Head Cheese" Pavano can or should be be ignored.

Meatless has to rule. Say what you will about the "Wacker" but I doubt a bruised bottom would hold him out for long. No "glass ass" on that boy.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-03-15 11:26:44
51.   pistolpete
What, 50 posts and no one made a pork ('the other white meat') reference?

For shame, BB... ;-)

2007-03-15 11:28:44
52.   Jim Dean
47 If I can have a deck or fence made out of synthetic wood that lasts twenty years, I don't seen why bats couldn't work. And even if their performance doesn't replicate wood or metal - who cares? If every kid is using one then it's a level playing field.

49 If every league in the country started using them, the prices would come way down. The material is cheap. They just have to perfect the technology.

2007-03-15 11:28:53
53.   wsporter
51 Don't kid yourself pistol, there's plenty o' pork in head cheese.
2007-03-15 11:29:35
54.   Jim Dean
51 See 8 :)
2007-03-15 11:30:36
55.   Sliced Bread
51 thelarmis was all over it 8
2007-03-15 11:31:47
56.   Jim Dean
Reading through them again you guys out did yourselves. Well done, indeed!
2007-03-15 11:31:51
57.   jayd
I logged a jerry remy comment the other day saying carl, who used to throw 95-96 was only throwing around 90 with little action on the ball. Another observer in the same game said that in his last inning his fastball was showing great tailing action and predicted he was going to be a force to be reckoned with this season.

God, I hope so.

Ohlendorf is another year away maybe two, but I liked what I saw, even though it was his worst outing the other day. Tyler Clippard if FAB. I put them as two solid future stars, but would give either one up for a Johan My Johan trade. After all Pavano went for Pedro Martinez...

I have to learn to foster a spring training mentality...patience patience.

the other factor is all you have to do is
1. beat the other teams in your division. if our traditional competition is the rsawks, well they are sucking big time at this point. no cf, no 2nd, no closer. Patch THIS theo. sawsks are fighting it out wiht baltimore for 3rd

2. get hot at the end of the year for the woild serious. that means having moose and andy fully rested. and Roger, is he's on board at that point.

3. viva karstens and hughes: the keys to this season

4. mvp = jason giambi who learns how to DH this year.

5. as much as I like andy philips I think he has lost the job to phelps who has a great swing and looks like he is going to kill the f---ing ball every time he steps to the plate. I know it's just spring training but how do you NOT choose this guy. Seems like every box score I see he's 2 for 3. he's tall, though. does he remind anyone of someone?

2007-03-15 11:40:26
58.   vockins
48 The stats I have read claim that there have been 17 deaths from batted balls from 1991 to 2001 across the country. Eight deaths are from metal, two wood, and the rest are unknown.

Considering that youth leagues are going to use metal bats more often than wood, I'm not convinced that going to all wood bats is going to reduce the risk of death by batted ball.

2007-03-15 11:48:01
59.   vockins
52 I'm with Jim an Kevin Goldstein. Creating a standard bat for youth leagues that emphasizes durability and has a reasonable energy transfer is the way to go. Of course, bat companies aren't going to be thrilled about selling less bats. Better than selling none of them, I guess.
2007-03-15 11:56:54
60.   Shaun P
58 I was really trying to be snarky there and suggest that, if 'the powers that be' were honestly interested in protecting kids, the wood vs metal vs composite bats thing would be getting a lot more attention than PEDs, given the disparity in deaths caused. And that there's a real and reasonable solution to the bat problem.

All things considered, I think you, JD, and KG have the right idea. You'd think that MLB and MiLB would be behind it, too. The transition from metal bat to wood bat has dashed more than a few prospects. At the least, evaluating high school talent might be easier if everyone is using a similar bat, and that bat is closer to a wood bat. Add in the positive PR aspect and it looks like a win-win.

Instead, the Mitchell 'investigation' will drag on at a cost I'm glad I don't have to pay.

2007-03-15 11:57:07
61.   wsporter
48 58 This seems to sum up and present a lot of the safety info on the debate.

From a College POV, especially D1, I'd like to see hitters use wood. They seem to turn so fast on anything with those Al bats that you just can't really tell what they can and can't hit. We get out to a lot of college ball starting around now and it's maddening when you know you're watching a pitcher who needs to come inside and yet knows they don't dare risk it. It really seems to take a little away from the game.

2007-03-15 12:12:36
62.   Jim Dean
I'm no engineer, but based on the materials of synthetic wood (usually recycled plastic), I'd think it wouldn't be tough to mimic a wood bat by varying the composition used. If anything, they could probably get the bat lighter even as they make it stronger. The worrisome bit is that they make a bat with as much energy transfer as metal - that will be what the market demands.

To me, it's a market opportunity and if Louisville Slugger or Easton, the later which built its name on metal bats, miss that chance then they die. Still, they're going to protect their turf any way they can. Just as I'm sure the wood bat companies did when the metal bats came along.

2007-03-15 12:20:23
63.   Jim Dean
Just saw the link and read the Goldstein piece. Of course he's right, but I wonder if they did anything to preserve their research into how to "deaden" a metal bat. That goes contrary to everything they've been doing the last twenty years (at least). I can't see them easily knowing how to reverse the process. Plus, he misses the point that by doing so they admit there's something "wrong" with metal bats.

Me, if I was consulting Easton I'd have them develop a separate product line based on synthetic wood. It's more upfront costs, but they're not bound in any way by their history, can use their knowledge where appropriate, and serve two markets.

I'm a big beleiver in win-wins. And if Easton doesn't pursue solutions, someone else will.

2007-03-15 12:37:09
64.   Jim Dean
Sorry - didn't mean to kill the discussion (this time!).
2007-03-15 12:50:38
65.   Chyll Will
64 Make more meat jokes. I was on a (kaiser) roll until my computer crashed...

But to add to your point, what is the point of using metal bats in college or elsewhere (outside of saving a wad of cash) when the pros don't use or allow metal bats? On one hand, programs from colleges all the way down to Little League want to defend the use of metal bats, but on the other they refuse to be accountable for the injuries that occur from batted balls, either minimizing the occurrences or blaming the victim for not having the wherewithal to react in time.

I'm willing to petrose that if these programs were required to cover their players' insurance costs in the event of injury due to the use of potentially hazardous equipment, they'd see how much cheaper it is to buy grosses of wooden bats or develop alternative non-metal composites.

Carl Pu-Pu Platter
Carl Chow Mein or Pava No Mein
Carl Jerky
Pavanogna or Pavaloney

2007-03-15 12:59:33
66.   Yankee Fan In Boston
65 heh... i like pavalogna.
2007-03-15 13:01:54
67.   Chyll Will
We skipped the most obvious...
2007-03-15 13:06:40
68.   Chyll Will
2007-03-15 13:19:11
69.   Chyll Will
Should I continue? We could easily reach 100 on this. BTW, thanks Alex for this brainstorming session!
2007-03-15 13:22:49
70.   Jim Dean
69 By all means.
2007-03-15 13:24:59
71.   Shaun P
68 Carlmel-no?
2007-03-15 13:28:28
72.   Sliced Bread

Carl Jerky

Pa'vegemite sandwich (if ya remember "Men At Work")

2007-03-15 13:38:36
73.   Shaun P
Way off this topic, but YES has a poll where you can vote for your favorite Yanks moment from YES's 5 years of broadcasting:

Doesn't seem to be a limit to how many times you can vote either . . .

A Pavanowurst-moment is not a selection, sadly. I would have voted for his slip off the mound - the 'butt bruise heard 'round the world'.

(FWIW, if you type "butt bruise" and "Pavano" into Google, you get 142 results. "bruised buttocks" and Pavano is 688 results.)

2007-03-15 13:41:59
74.   Chyll Will
Fruity Pavvles

Carl Jr's


2007-03-15 13:42:11
75.   wsporter
Since we're examining odd meats how about Carl "Donner Party" Pavano?
2007-03-15 13:51:38
76.   wsporter
75 What? Too foody?
2007-03-15 13:55:17
77.   Chyll Will
76 Head cheese was foody enough >;)


2007-03-15 13:56:00
78.   Chyll Will
KFC implies better than he really is...

Carlo Bell?

2007-03-15 13:58:44
79.   Chyll Will
Carl Cutlet Pavasan...
2007-03-15 14:08:23
80.   wsporter
Chicken ala Carl?
2007-03-15 14:20:49
81.   The Mick 536
Spare me Pavano's Ribs.
2007-03-15 14:48:08
82.   Raf
52 What I meant in 49 is that cost isn't an issue, because a composite bat will usually cost less than a aluminum bat.

I've played with all 3 (composite, wood, aluminum), and I think composite is the way to go. Easier for me, wood bats are expensive to replace ($60 a pop)

IIRC there is an approved "bat standard" out there that was put together with safety in mind; that's why there aren't any 34/26 bats out there

2007-03-15 15:06:15
83.   Chyll Will
80 Good one, Sport

82 What kinda Carl name is that?

Carlmel Candy-A$@

2007-03-15 15:08:16
84.   Chyll Will
Chile con Carl
2007-03-15 15:09:15
85.   Chyll Will
Corn on the Carl (especially after getting hit in the foot)
2007-03-15 15:10:37
86.   Chyll Will
Carl Pavandue
2007-03-15 15:14:42
87.   wsporter
As many are no doubt aware by now, Bowie Kuhn passed away today. He wasn't a particularly popular or beloved figure in his time but he did shepherd the game through some rough times. He did seem to have a tin ear, appeared in some ways to be racially insensitive and was famously on what was ultimately the wrong side of the free agent issue.

His refusal to ever wear a coat to a ball game made it cool to do so in a weird way. I knew a guy who named his Border Collie Bowie. Smartest damned dog I ever saw.

2007-03-15 15:14:57
88.   Jim Dean
No Carl Tartare?
2007-03-15 15:17:47
89.   Jim Dean
82 Cool, thanks. I didn't know that about the standards.

And that's the thing. The bat companies are missing a golden opportunity. Because the synthetic wood costs less to make, they can make more on the margins. Weird they're fighting.

2007-03-15 15:35:18
90.   Javi Javi
Carl "Sweetbreads" Pavano (labor-free $39.95M is awfully sweet)
2007-03-15 15:36:37
91.   Javi Javi
. . . or Carl "blood pudding" pavano
2007-03-15 15:40:59
92.   Sliced Bread
Lump-meat Carl Cakes

Pavano Under Glass (redundant)

One thing Meat has not been in recent years: gamey.

2007-03-15 15:42:08
93.   wsporter
The Prairie Oyster!
2007-03-15 15:47:19
94.   Chyll Will
88 Yes, very good.

89 It's the same principle as with DirecTV refusing to release or augment the technology that would allow anyone to receive a satellite signal without having to face a southerly direction: they have a billion dollars of inventory to dispense, and they would rather saturate the market first and then re-saturate with the alternative, which would take years. They're arguing for the right to sell their inventory until they come up with a viable alternative, which ostensibly means a few or a hundred years. Point is, they don't want to do it NOW.

Carl Chowder

2007-03-15 15:52:07
95.   Chyll Will
Carl Meringue Pavano
2007-03-15 15:56:08
96.   Chyll Will
Green Eggs & Carl
2007-03-15 15:56:34
97.   Jim Dean
I think every post of substance should end with a new name.

For instance Fehr talked to the players today. And he mentions that they'll approve an HGH test once one is found. By that point of course, the cheaters have moved on to the next PED. And around and around they go. Meanwhile, guys like Gary Matthews are getting 50 million dollar contracts. Instead they should just collect and store blood samples. Red blood cells last for ten years. THAT'S a deterrent.


2007-03-15 16:04:12
98.   Chyll Will
Chicken Pav Pie

Pavano Carlzone...

2007-03-15 16:16:33
99.   Chyll Will
Pounded Cake
2007-03-15 16:21:33
100.   wsporter
Fried Carlimare
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-03-15 16:30:02
101.   rabid stan
Igawa walks his first two men on 9 pitches, then strikes out the side.
2007-03-15 16:32:08
102.   Chyll Will
Carlbasa with sauerkraut

Not Cross Buns

Non-Daily Creamer?

2007-03-15 16:36:25
103.   Chyll Will
Do you like Piña Carladas?
2007-03-15 16:39:49
104.   wsporter
I like Melky Cabreras
2007-03-15 16:47:42
105.   Eirias
I'm impressed with the dedication you all have shown in this thread.
2007-03-15 17:11:52
106.   Chyll Will
I'm just glad we broke 100 >;)
2007-03-15 17:14:00
107.   yankz
104 At first I thought, "I don't get it." Then I realized that wasn't a nickname.
2007-03-15 17:49:04
108.   Bama Yankee
Since the question was what Bob Lemon would have called him, how about:

Lemon Peppered Chicken

2007-03-15 17:56:29
109.   wsporter
107 Did you see that catch. I didn't look like it was the result of a late break but rather that he got a good jump and just out ran the ball. Sweet!

Chipped Carl on toast.

2007-03-15 19:13:38
110.   Chyll Will
109 "Chipped Carl on toast"

Ken could probably attest to how many times we've seen that.

Rump Roast.

2007-03-15 19:23:09
111.   wsporter
110 Well Chyll, I was going to go with Carl on a Shingle but I thought that would have been unnecessarily cruel.

Pavano de Foie Gras

2007-03-15 19:29:44
112.   Chyll Will
Man, I do often wonder if some of this stuff gets back to the players in one way or another. It seems likely that someone who knows someone will read this and say, "Hey, did you see what they said about your boy?" and eventually the word gets back to him and he either sees or hears about it.

That would be cool. At least we're alluded to in the papers; if not in a direct-reference way.

Thin-Crust Meat Lover's Pavano.

2007-03-15 19:36:08
113.   OldYanksFan
Are ya ready for baseball?
2007-03-15 19:46:33
114.   Chyll Will
111 No it wouldn't. I actually meant that we've seen ol' Chipped Carl on Toaster probably more than a thousand times; not the name, but the reference to Mr. Life-Of-The-Party himself.

But it's late now, so I must complete my homework. Ugh. Later, this has definitely been fun.

Pavanbalaya! >;)

2007-03-15 19:51:28
115.   OldYanksFan
We have some VERY funny, creative people here.
Karl Kielbasa - lean boneless (or spineless?) pork
2007-03-15 20:18:18
116.   Jim Dean
Carl in a Blanket?
2007-03-15 20:18:36
117.   Jim Dean
Carl Pavigiano?
2007-03-15 21:01:22
118.   kdw
113 Thanks for the links, made my evening to remember these.
2007-03-15 22:38:39
119.   yankz
113 Wow, thanks. Although next time, please post a warning that you've linked directly to a file :)

Arod's swing is absolute beauty when it's on.

I think Cano's bomb is circling Saturn right about now.

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