Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
"I Want Some Man Meat"
2007-02-03 07:29
by Alex Belth
Note: The Bronx Banter blog has moved to

Carl Pavano spoke with the media yesterday.

2007-02-03 07:44:13
1.   kylepetterson
I do not want any man meat, thank you. But I will say this. I like this comment from Pavano: "I think I've always worked hard. Now I work smart."

Makes sense. Let's see if we can get Farsworth on that trolley.

2007-02-03 08:32:21
2.   yankz
Is that title a reference to last week's Office?
2007-02-03 08:55:35
3.   The Mick 536
Didn't learn too much about him or his problems. Wanted to know who has the knife ready for his back. Also wanted to know the circumstances of the accident and why he didn't tell anyone.

How do we know whether he can pitch well enough to have a place in the rotation or on the trade block? Do three scoreless outings in Florida bring him North for an April start? Suppose he gets hit hard in his first start?

And what is this thing about Joe not calling him? How do the MGR know who be in his plans without speakin with the guy?

Didn't think much of the deal that brought him here. Not encouraged.

2007-02-03 08:58:16
4.   The Mick 536

More dribble on the topic.

2007-02-03 10:04:45
5.   rbj
I'll give "Meatless" the opportunity to earn my trust. But he mus step up to the plate, er, mound, and not trip on his shoelace there.
2007-02-03 10:11:29
6.   OldYanksFan
The Yankees have $39M invested in this guy and so far he has delivered $17,253.95. The Yankees will see what he has to offer. If he's league average or better, we will keep him... as we are a little shallow in the rotation. If he's not league average, but appears to be healthy, we will probably do a salary dump to someone in the NL (but pick up a good portion of his salary) and hope we can a decent youngster for him.
2007-02-03 11:11:20
7.   Yankee Fan In Boston
i respect the fact that he agreed with mussina. sounds like he knows what he has to do.

he's saying all the right things, now let's just see if he can make me look like nostradamus...

you've got to give the guy a chance. i'm sure he'll have a bump or two along the comeback trail, but throwing him under the bus before he suits up won't help.

positivity, people.

oh... and...
"beef. it's what's for dinnah..."

2007-02-03 16:10:20
8.   mikeplugh
I have a whole different take on the Pavano situation. To me, it's not whether or not he takes the mound for the Yankees. It's not whether or not he gets back to being Carl Pavano. The intriguing part of his situation, is whether he was ever good enough to crack our rotation in the first place.

He's certainly not better than Wang, Moose, or Pettitte. He may or may not be better than Kei Igawa. Then, there's Clemens. There's also Hughes, Sanchez, and Clippard. In fact, add Rasner and Karstens into that question. Is he better than any of those guys?

Clemens (No. Dumb question.)
Igawa (I say no, but it's probably close.)
Hughes (No way.)
Sanchez (Both have health questions, but Sanchez has better stuff.)
Clippard (No way to know.)
Rasner (Based on results, I'd prefer Rasner right now.)
Karstens (I think I'd take Pavano, but it could change.)

Looking at his performance in the NL is enough to tell me that he's league average at best, and below replacement at worst. Any of the above mentioned guys can do that for us. What happens to Pavano if he doesn't even make the rotation? Can he go to the pen? Is there a trade out there for him? Will he suddenly be "injured" again to escape the humiliation? He can work as hard as he wants, but he just might not be good enough in the first place.

2007-02-03 16:22:32
9.   OldYanksFan
Pavano has a career ERA of 4.27, mostly in the NL... which is league average. But he has a career OPS of .754, which seems pretty good.

Did the Yanks sign him because they wanted him, or was it to stop Boston from getting him?

2007-02-03 16:25:05
10.   mikeplugh
9 His career ERA+ is 100, which is exactly league average. That was in his prime. He's going to be 31 this year, and just sat out a whole season with various issues. Can we expect him to outperform the level he achieved in the years that were supposed to be his strongest?

That's a really big "if".

2007-02-03 16:30:23
11.   mikeplugh
9 Also, the Yankees didn't care if he went to Boston, I believe. I think the biggest problem was the need to get ANYONE into the rotation after reeling from the departure of Clemens and Pettitte a couple of years earlier. That's why they tried Vazquez and Lieber and Kevin Brown and Jaret Wright....

Pavano happened to be the biggest name available at the time and was coming off a lights out season. The Marlins championship team built quite a reputation for it's starting pitching based on a very small sample size. It now looks, some years later, as though the entire group simultaneously outperformed their expected levels and now have regressed to the mean. All the free agent money spent on them is coming back to haunt the buyers. Beckett, Pavano, AJ Burnett....

2007-02-03 16:42:58
12.   OldYanksFan
"Murcer is expected to remain in Houston for about another month of chemo and radiation treatments. At that time, assuming he has had no setbacks, Murcer is expected to qualify for an experimental treatment. One of Murcer's doctors, who had been diagnosed with a similar brain tumor, underwent that same treatment 26 months ago and has shown no signs of recurrence"

Considering the severity of Bobby's condition, this is a very good piece of news.

2007-02-03 18:04:18
13.   Yu-Hsing Chen
11 And Brad Penny....

The Marlins ownership sucks, but their front office sure knows what they are doing.

2007-02-03 18:31:03
14.   mikeplugh
13 Hey Yu-Hsing...

I saw that the Dodgers signed your guy Tsao. Probably a very very good move for them. I wonder if they'll try to convert him to relief to save his arm, or if they plan to work him back into shape as a starter.

Curious if you've ever seen him pitch, and if so, do you think mechanics played any role in his arm trouble. Did starting and pitching later into games get him fatigued, and his mechanics broke down.....any insights?

I know you hoped he would sign with the Yankees, but a team with more room on the farm, and on the 40 man will give him a better chance at an impact.

2007-02-03 19:24:10
15.   markp
The fact that he's 31 and has a league avg lifetime ERA+ may be mitigated by the really lousy numbers he had up to age 26. If Hughes is ready in June, we'll only need him to be OK for a few months.
2007-02-03 21:08:16
16.   Chyll Will
2 I think he was referring to "The Jungle Book"...

no you're right, I wasn't thinking that...

2007-02-04 05:48:50
17.   mikeplugh
Wow. Nobody gives a shit about Carl Pavano. This is only post #17 after nearly a full day. Ouch.

I posted a lengthy conversation I had with Will Carroll over at Matsuzaka Watch in case anyone's interested. You can go there by typing:

Or, you can enter from the Canyon of Heroes front page, where I wrote a short blurb with a link.

2007-02-04 06:43:42
18.   Sliced Bread
17 I care about Pavano like I care about a couple of fine Italian sport jackets I purchased (somewhat impuslsivley) in 1996.

They've been out of the rotation, hanging forgotten in the back of my closet for years -- but still sort of fit, and will eventually be back in style.

Carl Pavano, in all his double-breasted silk and wool refinement, finally comes off the paper-wrapped wire hanger next week. But have you seen the outrageous dry cleaning and storage bills for this league average garment?

2007-02-04 09:42:57
19.   Raf
17 I've said all I can about him over @ waswatching.

Hope for the best, expect the worst, get something in between. I didn't like the signing, & I was hoping he would've been traded prior to the 06 season. I wasn't too happy about the Wright signing either. I thought they should've kept Loaiza instead of Wright. I thought they should've gone after Pedro harder. I thought they should've gone after Clement instead of Pavano.

That said, I hope Pavano comes back and has a good year.

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