Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
2007-01-24 19:38
by Cliff Corcoran

When the Yankees announced their spring training invitees a little less than two weeks ago (see the list under "Players" on the sidebar), I was struck by the absence of one name: J. Brent Cox. As it turns out, Cox, who is widely regarded as one of the organization's ten-best prospects, has a broken bone in his pitching hand and will thus get a late start to his third professional season. Mystery solved, thanks to super sleuth Peter Abraham.

Peter also provides this link to Michael Kay's Tuesday interview with Bobby Murcer, who plans to return to broadcasting as soon as spring training. Much as hearing Kay's voice (and dreadful theme song) makes my skin crawl, it's great to hear Murcer. In addition to his good spirits and strong voice, his graciousness with Kay's callers is tremendous.

The Yankees will hold a press conference today to announce a new "international venture," which Murray Chase believes will have something to do with Randy Levine, Brian Cashman, and Jean Afterman's upcoming trip to China and Japan.

Jorge Posada made a few comments about Bernie Williams before Tuesday's Baseball Assistance Team (BAT) dinner, unleashing a torrent of articles all of which have used the same quotes. The gist of Jorge's jive: Bernie won't play for another team, Bernie won't sign a minor league deal, Bernie wants to play one more year. Sounds like Bernie's in denial. Tyler Kepner's version of the story suggests that Bernie could take that minor league deal and then retire in a Yankee uniform in spring training like Al Leiter did last year. Jorge suggests that Bernie might take the Roger Clemens rout and stay in shape in the hope of being needed at some point during the season. Again, I think Bernie's setting himself up for disappointment.

Major League Baseball will officially announce on Wednesday January 31 that the 2008 All-Star Game will take place in Yankee Stadium. The announcement is expected to take place at City Hall.

Bob Timmerman over on the Griddle has a link to a story about Aaron Guiel and his decision to play in Japan this year.

Finally, on the topic of erstwhile Yankee first basemen, the Devil Rays appear to be close to inking former Columbus Clipper Carlos Peña to a minor league contract. They'll already have Hee-Seop Choi in camp. Either of those lefties would have been preferable to Stinky Minky.

Comments (77)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-01-24 22:13:20
1.   SF Yanks
Sweet! Never had the top spot before. I'd like to thank my family, the Yankee staff, Alex and Cliff, my fellow Banterers, and of course Darryl Strawberry.
2007-01-24 22:50:24
2.   thelarmis
1 and i'd like to thank you for making me giggle after a long day of work! : )

i'd much rather pena or choi than scrabble. or guiel or craig wilson, for that matter...

it is going to be sooo sad to see bernabe go. : (

2007-01-25 00:06:28
3.   rilkefan
0 - I thought SG at the RLYW had a chart showing Scrabble projected about as well as anybody available economically.

No, actually he didn't compare the above:

2007-01-25 05:29:41
4.   Sliced Bread
Slogging through the thick evening traffic on 80 West, I caught every word of Kay's Murcer "event" the other day. You had to just smile listening to Bobby graciously accepting the praise and prayers of his fans, acknowledging how blessed he is.
Be strong, Bobby.

Good ole Bernie? Yeah, I'd still rather see the at-bats wasted on him than Doug Out ("Stinky Minky" -- good one, Cliff) but I agree it's time for Bernie to pass the baton (bat on) to the next generation of Yankees.

Dig this excellent passage from Sherman today:

"I have enjoyed chatting with Williams as much as any player during the years. He was unique, an artist in a jockstrap. He was contemplative. He actually considered questions, and was a cliche-free zone. He was bright, articulate and insightful in his second language. He was polite, dare I say a gentleman in a forum that does not beget many."

It's sad to read about Bernie's qualities in the past tense, eulogized while he still holds hope for another at-bat for the Yanks.

I'd like to see him get a few televised swings during Spring Training just for old time's sake -- and I hope he's getting ready to embrace the warm farewell he's going to receive.

2007-01-25 05:48:23
5.   Sliced Bread
The Journal News caught up with Bernie at a gig last night.

2007-01-25 06:00:30
6.   Shaun P
Somewhat off-topic, but I guess related to Bernie, as pinch hitting was supposed to be his primary role last year. Does anyone know if there are any studies about pinch hitters? I'm thinking along the lines of what type/age of player tends to succeed in the role consistently, if that's even possible, and what counts as 'success' as a pinch hitter.

I continue to hope Bernie does retire, but I understand why he's hanging on. The needs of the Yanks outweigh the needs of Bernie, though, and so I think we've seen his last MLB at bat in pinstripes.

2007-01-25 06:06:12
7.   Shaun P
0 BTW, I have just have to say, Pete Abraham is hilarious:

"Having been on vacation, I have no idea what this will be about. I assume they've made some kind of partnership with a team from Asia. Either that or they're invading some small country."

That was what I now think of as a Sliced-level funny (i.e., I laughed out loud and my co-workers are looking at me wondering what's so funny).

2007-01-25 06:33:03
8.   Sliced Bread
6 Shaun, Hardball Times had this piece on pitchers as pinch hitters, the way it used to be:

Who knows what untapped pinch-hitting prowess secretly lurks in the Yankees bullpen?

The hardball piece also cites a book called "Stand and Deliver: A History of Pinch-Hitting" which I've been meaning to pick up.

2007-01-25 06:53:14
9.   Shaun P
8 Thanks, Sliced! I'll check it out.
2007-01-25 07:14:51
10.   williamnyy23
While I hope Bernie "wants" to retire, there is a part of me that thinks the Yankees owe it to him to bring him back. Fans always complain about loyalty, but as Bernie stated, it is a two way street. There is no reason the Yankees can't slot Bernie into the 25-man in place of some retread reliever or pathetic 1B platoon of Andy Phillips and Doug M.

Bernie is still a useful RH bat off the bench. Although a very limited role for sure, he can still make a contribution. Bernie is a Yankee and should stay that way.

2007-01-25 07:33:26
11.   Chyll Will
10 "While I hope Bernie "wants" to retire, there is a part of me that thinks the Yankees owe it to him to bring him back."

What you need is a replacement part... and has Cliff got the deal for you! Tell 'im, Sliced... >;)

2007-01-25 07:35:08
12.   tommyl
10 Let me preface this argument with the fact that I love Bernie, however, there is no space for him on this team. A bench player should be a capable fielder (to be used as a LIDR), speedster (a pinch runner) or a good pinch hitter. Bernie is none of these things. His defense in the OF is awful, and there's no evidence at all that he can learn to play 1B this late in his career. Last year (in an admittedly small sample size) he was terrible as a pinch hitter, and he was always bad at stealing bases. His only purpose on the team would be to take ABs away from Melky, which makes no sense. The Yankees were loyal last year to take him on, but how many years do they have to be loyal for? He was supposed to retire 2 years ago, did not, last year and still hasn't. I love the guy, but from a baseball standpoint, its time to move on. He will hurt the team moving forward.
2007-01-25 07:35:16
13.   Cliff Corcoran
4 I have to give Jay Jaffe credit for "Stinky Minky." I got it from him.

As for Bernie's pinch-hitting, he's a career .217/.351/.326 hitter in the role (57 plate appearances). A full 22 of those PAs came last year and he went 3 for 19 with three walks. Terribly small samples, but such is the nature of the job.

The big question is, who is he going to pinch hit for? The only time he'd be a better option than the starter would be when the ninth spot in the order (the first base platoon) is facing a lefty, and in those situations the opposing manager could easily bring in a righty to turn Bernie around and make him useless (remember the lefty Bernie hit .261/.305/.383 last year, which basically means he was Nick Green). What's more, using Bernie as a pinch hitter for the first baseman is a three-player move (starting 1B, PH Bernie, defensive replacement 1B). A tremendous waste of resources for what's at best a tiny strategic advantage (if any at all given Bernie's struggles in the role last year and the fact that he'll be 39 before the season's over).

I'm sorry, I love Bernie, but he's absolutely useless to the Yankees at this point.

2007-01-25 07:53:08
14.   rbj
Love Bernie, but it's time for him to be a fulltime musician.

Good news on Bobby. Damn shame I won't be able to hear him thanks to Bud's idiotic Directv deal.

2007-01-25 08:13:43
15.   NetShrine
Hey, no props? I beat Tyler Kepner on the Bernie idea by a week:

2007-01-25 08:28:57
16.   Chyll Will
15 Prop-master!
2007-01-25 08:33:41
17.   Shaun P
15 The "minor league invite then retire after Spring Training and let him pick a position with the team" is a good idea, Steve, and I hope Bernie considers it.

But part of me thinks saying anything else, like, "If an injury pops up, you're the guy we call" is a disaster. Say Giambi were to suffer an injury and would miss the first half of the season. I hope the Yanks could do a lot better than Bernie as a replacement. Similarly, say an OF goes down to injury for a long time, making Melky a full time player. I would much rather have able-to-play defense Kevin Thompson as the 4th OF over Bernie. Especially because, as always, Torre would play Bernie far too often, to the Yanks' detriment.

I love Bernie too, but as Cliff and tommyl showed above, he's pretty useless to the Yanks even in the face of injury.

The moment the Yanks announce "Bernie Williams Day" at the Stadium, I will find a way to be there, unless its the day my second child is due. Hmmm . . . I wonder if my wife would accept Bernie as a middle name for this one . . .

2007-01-25 08:37:38
18.   dianagramr
17 ... not if its a girl ....

(then perhaps Bernice, Bernadette)

2007-01-25 08:40:06
19.   Shawn Clap
While I'd like to see Bernie just retire, I feel he's being shortchanged on his value the team.

Sure, he's no longer got homerun power and that throws off the SLG & OPS numbers that many people use to guage a hitter's value. But Bernie is still a great doubles hitter. Yes, I said great. In fact, he was the 2nd best doubles hitter on the team last year behind only Robinson Cano.

Based on Plate Appearances (400 or more):

Cano 508PA - 41 dbls - 8.50%
Bernie 462PA - 29 dbls - 6.27%
Jeter 715PA - 39 dbls - 5.45%
Damon 593PA - 35 dbls - 5.21%
Melky 524PA - 26 dbls - 4.96%
Jorge 545PA - 27 dbls - 4.95%
Giambi 579PA - 25 dbls - 4.31%
Arod 674PA - 26 dbls - 3.85%

While a double isn't as sexy as a home run, it's still a rally-starter or a base-clearer. Despite Bernie's age, slowness, failing eyesight and overall decrepitude, he can still hit the doubles with the best of them.

Just saying. Let's not shortchange him here.

2007-01-25 08:53:54
20.   williamnyy23
I agree that there is no room for Bernie, but should the Yankees make room?

Personally, if Bernie would promise to retire next season, then I'd sacrifice someone like Phillips and let Minky be the full-time 1B for now (until the M's are ready to dump Sexson). What value does Phillips have anyway? Albeit a PR move, I'd rather use the spot for Bernie than a guy like Phillips.

Quite frankly, because the Yankee bench is so weak, that last roster spot shouldn't have an impact on winning the division/World Series. Therefore, I'd rather keep Bernie happy and keep him out of another uniform.

2007-01-25 09:02:25
21.   Shaun P
20 "Quite frankly, because the Yankee bench is so weak, that last roster spot shouldn't have an impact on winning the division/World Series."

You'd think so, and once upon a time, I did too. But take a look at the bench in the '01 Serious, where the Yanks' options to pinch hit late in games were awful at best and didn't-belong-on-a-major-league-bench at worst. One can make a very convincing argument that this did contribute heavily to the Yanks losing the '01 Serious, and IIRC, someone did (I don't remember who, though - it might have been Cliff).

If Bernie wants to put on another uniform, it won't be the end of the world. The Babe did it, Yogi did it, Reggie did it, Randolph did it, the list goes on.

2007-01-25 09:17:50
22.   Chyll Will
Reggie still had pop when the Yankees traded him, unless you're referring to his last year in Oakland before he retired.

My hope is that if Bernie wants to stick around, it's as a coach. He could impart a whole lot to the youngsters about work ethic; staying in good shape and being focused. I wonder if Bernie looks at Paul O'Neill, who had to be carried off, as a motivator for his desire to continue (I hope it's not Rickey H.) We'll see come Spring Training.

2007-01-25 09:26:16
23.   tommyl
20 Because Phillips can play several IF defensive positions. There is also a possible upside to Andy, whereas there is none for Bernie. If you want the Yankees to make decisions based on PR moves, that's fine, but then you can't demand they win every year as well. I love Bernie, but the Yankees are a lesser team with him on it.

19 Bernie's EqA last year was .260, that is the definition of league average. Melky gave the same EqA, with much better defense and improved throughout the year.

2007-01-25 09:30:20
24.   Raf
17 Can't be much worse than activating Chris Chambliss for an AB...
2007-01-25 09:32:37
25.   jkay
A Bronx vs Brooklyn feud is brewing......

With the Boss Behind Bars, a Borough Battle Brews
January 25, 2007

Fifty years after zealous Yankees and Dodgers fans duked it out in the bleachers of Yankee Stadium and Ebbets Field, there's a new Bronx-Brooklyn feud brewing that could be every bit as intense.

This one is between factions of the Luchese crime family, and through it hasn't gotten bloody like the all-out Colombo family civil war that left 12 dead around the city in the early 1990s, law enforcement sources say the potential for violence clearly exists.

Sources say the feud has been festering for more than a year and began heating up last summer. The issue — no surprise — is control of lucrative mob schemes.

"Whenever you have mobsters wrangling over money, murder is always a distinct possibility" is how one law enforcer put it.

2007-01-25 09:40:58
26.   JL25and3
I think people are making the wrong comparison. the choice shouldn't be between Bernie and, say, Andy Phillips; it should be between Bernie and the @#%^ 12th pitcher. Every year the Yankees make sure to save one bullpen spot for a pitcher Joe doesn't like and never uses - I think of it as the Randy Choate chair.

I would much, much rather have another bench player than that last stupid pitcher. I'm not saying Bernie's the answer, but I think that's the choice.

And if Bernie stays in shape and sits by a phone that never rings, well, he's in good company. Rickey Henderson's still waiting for that call, and you know he's still in shape.

2007-01-25 09:50:52
27.   Cliff Corcoran
15 Sorry, Steve, I didn't see that post.
2007-01-25 10:00:00
28.   Bama Yankee
10 williamnyy23, I'm confused. You think the Yankees "owe" it to Bernie to bring him back due to his loyalty, but you are okay with MLB disregarding its most loyal fans by forcing them to switch to DirecTV. I'm not trying to rehash yesterday's thread, but I have to ask: Since baseball is a "business", shouldn't the Yankees be able to make the same kind of sound business decision concerning GOB that you say Bud Selig is making concerning DTV?
2007-01-25 10:10:14
29.   vockins
10 "Fans always complain about loyalty, but as Bernie stated, it is a two way street."

I think the Yanks showed loyalty by outbidding the Red Sox by a fair margin in 1999, by opting out of taking Carlos Beltran in 2005, and by giving him a contract last year. He's had more loyalty than anyone I can think of.

He's was a great player. In 2007, stick a fork in 'im.

2007-01-25 10:31:14
30.   Cliff Corcoran
29 The Beltran move wasn't out of loyalty to Bernie, it was out of Giambi-induced shark hands on long-term big-money contracts and perhaps a bit of crying poor after having sunk their bread into Pavano and Wright. Regardless of why, it was the final mistake of a broken system. Thank Cashman that's behind us now.
2007-01-25 10:46:19
31.   Chyll Will
28 (Hee-hee) Let it go, Bama. Perpetual motion is a figment of our imagination, remember? >;)
2007-01-25 11:04:47
32.   JL25and3
30 I think it was immediately after the Unit trade/extension that they suddenly decided they didn't have any more big bucks to spend.
2007-01-25 11:10:16
33.   Tarheel
This may be off topic for this discussion, but going back to the Direct TV discussion for a minute....Rob Dibble and Kevin Kennedy said on their XM show yesterday that it was their understanding that this deal was going to take place in 2009. Has anyone heard anything else about this? Or is the deal to begin this coming season?
2007-01-25 11:24:47
34.   Schteeve
33 I would be shocked if Rob Dibble and Kevin Kennedy have ever been right about anything.
2007-01-25 11:31:23
35.   Bama Yankee
33 I think they are thinking about the new baseball channel that is scheduled to start in 2009. Everything I have read says that the new deal with DirecTV starts this season.
2007-01-25 11:32:36
36.   Cliff Corcoran
32 I never really bought into the RJ or Beltran as an either/or proposition argument, but that's certainly more feasable than the Yankees passing on Beltran out of loyalty to Bernie.
2007-01-25 11:52:06
37.   Sliced Bread
36 If I recall correctly, Bernie all but suggested Beltran become his successor - so loyalty to Bernie probably had nothing to do with it.

I was very surprised (and disappointed) they passed on him.

Think about it. Had the Yanks signed Beltran instead of Unit:

- the Yanks would probably still have Navarro as the backup catcher -- and our pal Jim Dean would be writing daily odes to Cashman -- or repeatedly criticizing the Yanks lack of RHP prospects.

- Mike Cameron would probably still be on the Mets.

- Damon would probably still be in Boston, and because of that, the Red Sox might not have gone as crazy to sign Matsuzaka and he'd be a Met now.

2007-01-25 11:53:09
38.   Bama Yankee
31 Sorry, I'll let it go... I'm not someone who likes to keep something going. ;-)

"This perpetual motion machine Lisa made is a joke, it just keeps going faster and faster," -- Homer Simpson

2007-01-25 11:54:51
39.   Jim Dean
36 I'm not sure I buy the loyalty to Bernie explanation, except when it comes to Torre.

But what prevented them from getting a CF for 2005?

At least in 2004 they got Lofton, even as Torre didn't play him. Then in 2005 they go through Bubba to Womack to Reese to Bernie back to Bubba colliding with Shef in Game 5.

2007-01-25 11:55:40
40.   Jim Dean
37 Ha! Speak of this devil...
2007-01-25 11:59:22
41.   Chyll Will
37 That last point's debateable; the Mets might not have been in a disposition to make such a high bid for him in the first place. Beltran had a lot to do with them doing so well that getting DM would be considered a key acq as opposed to taking a chance on rebuilding. But as you quite correctly stated, Jim Dean would definitely find something to complain about.
2007-01-25 12:09:42
42.   Chyll Will
40 Yeah, what's the difference between scrambled eggs and deviled eggs?
2007-01-25 12:13:31
43.   Chyll Will
42 And why wouldn't Eggs Benedict turn your stomach?
2007-01-25 12:31:35
44.   williamnyy23
21 I am not sure you can argue the bench killed the Yanks in 2001 when they were handled easily in three loses and had Mo on the mound to close out game 7. Having said that, your point would be relevant if the option was Bernie or a quality bench player. Unfortunately, it isn't. In a big spot, wouldn't you rather have Bernie batting over Phillips anyway?

23 Andy Phillips will be 30 on opening day…I don't think he has much upside. Also, while solid at 1B, I don't think you'd want Phillips playing anywhere else. Besides, even if he was a great defender elsewhere, Torre is going to play Cairo anyway.

26 That's not a bad thought either, although this year, hopefully that 12th pitchers spot will be going to a quality young arm instead of Scott Erickson.

28 I also don't want to rehash the issue because the debate wasn't very productive, but yes, they should be able to make a "business" decision with Bernie. I am not arguing that they shouldn't, but am instead suggesting that the other options do not merit cutting ties with Bernie.

I also don't see validity in your analogy. Bernie and the Yankees have a personal and professional business relationship that is specific to him. The EI issue involves a general availability issue that is potentially detrimental to a small few and potentially beneficial to not only the sport, but also fans in general (if it means increased investment in innovative products and the financial health of the league). Also, I would imagine that more Yankee fans feel strongly about Bernie one way or the other than care about the EI issue.

29 The Yankees paid Bernie fair market value in 1999. That's not exactly showing loyalty. I'm sure Bernie could have squeezed even more money out of the Sox, or another team, if he really wanted. Regardless, loyalty really comes into play when one side doesn't need the other, which is the case right now. As for Beltran, if the Yankees could have afforded him, it would have been bye-bye Bernie.

2007-01-25 12:36:02
45.   jayd
Had the Yanks signed Beltran instead of Unit? Would he have ever survived his first year in NY?

Excellent point 26

Now the reason Bernie is twisting in the wind is the Melky trade for starting pitching (Johan my Johan). Melky to the twinkies + young arms and Bernie gets his last year and his last Serious Appearance. Twinkies get to spin off Torii Hunter and cut further payroll.

This is just so happening I have to pinch myself in disbelief.Trade talks will be going down in China where Cash can get in under the radar by talking about "Yo-Han" and "the year of the pig (matsuzaka)"

what, you think I make this stuff up?

2007-01-25 12:48:03
46.   Jim Dean
39 BTW: Remember that someone (not the GM because he wasn't in "control" yet) traded Lofton for a RHRP (Felix) in 2005. Brilliant!

42 Mmmm....eggs.

But I actually don't complain about much else in life. I'm pretty chill, Will. I just think the GM could do better, esp. when he's had years to do so. See I find it hard to believe that because of the meddling Tampa contingent he couldn't:

a) Get a CF prospect with the impending doom of Bernie

b) Get a C prospect with the impending doom of Jorge.

c) Get a 1B prospect with the impending doom of Giambi.

It doesn't take a genius to realize that all three have been needed for at least three years now.

Given the last two years now, it's obvious Cashman sees there's no need for a bench of any kind so he puts little thought into it.

By June we'll see if the ignorance of the rest of the organization is a similar personality trait. It's about time they start lining up OF and IF prospects for the the next five years. We'll see if it happens.

2007-01-25 12:54:03
47.   Jim Dean
BTW: What has Cashman done to deserve all the love he gets? Torre gets ripped more around here but at least he contributed something to the championship years. Cashman's been riding the wave of other people's hard work for years now. Where's a championship that he built?

I wish I could work for nine years, then blame the company (e.g., the Scranton office) when our goals aren't met.

2007-01-25 12:58:41
48.   williamnyy23
46 I am not sure if Cashman doesn't see the need. In all fairness, it must be very difficult for him to attract bench players. Unless the Yankees are going to blindly overpay for reserves, why on earth would a solid backup want to come to the Yankees when he could sign elsewhere and wind up with much more playing time?
2007-01-25 13:31:18
49.   Cliff Corcoran
46 If only "getting" prospects were that easy.

And the Lofton trade had a lot to do with Torre refusing to play him. Ruben Sierra got more playing time than Lofton in both the regular and postseasons in 2004. Ouch.

2007-01-25 13:42:35
50.   Jim Dean
49 Where was the attempt? There's been nothing and he's had years to do so.

That explains 2004 and Lofton. What happened in 2005? What, they thought Bubba would be fine? And when the manager wasn't playing him, the GM did what?

So the GM hasn't shit the bed. But all the love he gets is beyond me. He's easily the most beloved GM I've ever seen for the Yanks. And what does he have to show for it?

Rings from a team someone else put together.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-01-25 14:04:48
53.   Bama Yankee
44 "yes, they should be able to make a 'business' decision with Bernie. I am not arguing that they shouldn't, but am instead suggesting that the other options do not merit cutting ties with Bernie."

Thanks for the clarification. So, you are saying that Bernie is a better option than the other players the Yankees plan to use off the bench this year. Not that they "owe" the spot to him due to his loyalty as you stated in 10 (you did say that it was a only a part of you that felt that way ;-)

As for the validity of my analogy, I agree that the Yankees have a personal relationship with Bernie (and that is a good thing for both). My point was that MLB does not seem to care about their relationship with a segment of their most avid fan base. While that relationship can not be "personal" (althought I did try to call Bud Selig and make it personal) IMO alienating those loyal customers could become a bad PR move for Selig (similar to how uncerimoniously showing Bernie the door would most certainly come back to bite the Yankees).

I understand the fact that you and I disagree on this issue and I have already promised Chyll that I would drop it. However, those who think the DTV deal is insignificant should check out how it is being received on other message boards and in the media. It might make sense on paper and look like it will help the bottom line but hey, so did New Coke...

2007-01-25 14:27:12
54.   yankz
You don't know he never tried. In fact, didn't he try to get Jeremy Reed last year? That wasn't going to happen. Lots of sh*t goes down that fans don't know about.

The idea that he doesn't try at all is bogus. Since consolidating power, Cash and Oppenheimer have drafted/signed OF prospects. Tabata, Jackson, and Gardner come to mind. Sure, not a short-term fix, but that's where Johnny Damon came in.

Eric Duncan, one of the organization's top position prospects, was converted to 1B. Also, is 1B really a pressing priority? I think finding replacements to Mo, Moose, Unit, Wells, Clemens, and all the other aging pitchers in the Yankees' rotation the past few years was a far more pressing concern. Cash has done just that.

We all agree that catcher is a shortcoming throughout the organization. But I find it easy to believe that if he, who knows far more about baseball (especially the Yankees) than anybody here, found it a pressing matter, he would've done everything possible.

2007-01-25 14:43:21
55.   Jim Dean
54 I'm talking 23 to 25 yo AA or AA positional prospects - something more sure than a draft pick.

Duncan is one of the organization's former top position prospects. And he needs to show something this year.

Sure, I could deal with Phelps at first. But it's the rest of the bench and nothing in the system that kills me. RH 1B are readily available for something of marginal value (see Overbye trade last year).

Further, Lord Theo trades his catching prospect (Shoppach) last year and gets Josh Bard in return. He turns around and trades him. But he remembers that a catching prospects is a priority for any organization and gets Kottaras for Wells in August.

By contrast, the nebulous Tampa contingent trades Navarro in 2004. And....?

I finally get it: Everyone around here is waiting for the circle jerk with bukkake on Cashman.

2007-01-25 15:29:42
58.   Schteeve
Jim, I really am impressed with your passion on the BUC/Bench issue. Do you have a detailed plan that you think, if rolled out, would solve the problem?

If so I'd love to see it. If you've already posted it, please direct me to the thread in which it exists, as I'd love to evaluate it.


2007-01-25 15:36:13
60.   OldYanksFan
Jim - I'm not possitive... but I'm not sure if 'bukkake' is on the list of official BANTER words. And if someone here doesn't know what it means... PLEASE DON'T ASK!
2007-01-25 16:04:08
63.   OldYanksFan
Nonsense Jim - we are all friends here. Even Rob Gee.
2007-01-25 16:06:30
64.   OldYanksFan
A few new pertainent notes at Lohud. Check it out (you too Jim)
2007-01-25 16:14:31
65.   yankz
62 Hey, I mess around with my friends, a lot. All I wanted was a proposal...
2007-01-25 16:20:50
66.   OldYanksFan
Speaking of Stinky Minky... how many people here thought we had a pretty good 1Bman in 2000? Hint: His initials were Tino Martinez. How productive was he? How about .258/.328/.422/.750. So lets not piss and moan too much about Minky. It's all about perspective.
2007-01-25 16:24:26
67.   Chyll Will
Time out, everyone. Let's nip this in the bud right now... This is starting to get old. I'm literally getting a headache reading this back and forth crap and if this's going to be the case, I'm going to take a vacation and hope this freakin' nonsense has stopped when I get back. It's fine to disagree, but now it's starting to get damned-stupid. If we can't be civilized or come up with some creative similies and metaphors that don't incite a freakin' flame war, then we all need to just back the hell up and have a life for a few days. Period.

Some of us are standing waaaay too close to that line, so cool it. One of those lines up there had better disappear real quick. And if some people are here just to start arguments because they're bored or they think they know every damn thing, they'd better take it back to wherever they came from.

But I digress. Stop the bull-isht. Disagreements, natch. But this is getting to have no value whatsoever. Peace-out...

2007-01-25 16:27:58
68.   Chyll Will
Feel free to ignore me if we've already moved on. But that should have been said a lot earlier. My apologies, carry on.
2007-01-25 16:41:55
69.   Ken Arneson
Y'all need to learn how to argue without the umpire tossin' ya out of the game. Hint: the magic word to avoid is "you".

I'm in a good mood, so I only deleted the offending posts, not the posters.

2007-01-25 17:32:29
70.   Chyll Will
69 Thank ___, Ken... >;) Sorry I blew up on ___ guys up there. My bad...
2007-01-25 17:46:37
71.   wsporter
That's really great guys. I don't know what was said and I don't really care. Something's been building here for a while so I suppose this was only to be expected. If you can't control yourself, take a day off here and go accomplish something positive. Why spoil this?

In case anyone hasn't noticed Alex has basically been out for a while after the death of his dad. We managed to stick to important things for a day or two after he lost his Dad then this crap had to break out again. Instead of spending energy spilling venom and bile at each other why don't we figure out something good and decent we can do for a guy who has brought us all so much. I would suggest the first thing we could do is not crap all over HIS blog. The second is to figure out if there is a memorial fund established for his dad.

You all ought to be ashamed and by the way, Chyll is 100% right. The fact that you could get him to feel bad about the way he reacted is really too bad.


2007-01-25 17:56:05
72.   Zack
Its always weird to check in here after posts have been deleted and sense the void left behind. There is, indeed, a lack I cannot overcome.

But in all honesty, I have found myself checking in less and less these days because I know that each time I come back, no matter the layoff, the conversation is going to be the same, and that bums me out. I am sick of the back and forth over who Cashman "should" have gotten vs. who he "did" get etc. Nothing has/hasn't been said that will make any difference now. All of the back and forth just gets tedious.

Thank God its almost Feb, because I couldn't take to much more of this...

2007-01-25 18:23:35
73.   Marcus
72 Zack, I have to agree with you re: checking in less and less. I'm attributing it to being the offseason, and hoping things will change when there is actual baseball to talk about.

Seriously, though. This latest BUC discussion has a huge whiff of "MIL-ton BRAD-ley" and "OPP" coming off it...which goes to show, just because someone is adamant about an idea, doesn't make even close to being right.

2007-01-25 18:32:02
74.   Jim Dean
Wow, what did I miss?
2007-01-25 18:38:32
75.   Jim Dean
Can I say:

Cashman, ___ suck!

Minky, ____ too!

Hey, it's all in good fun. I don't take any of it personally. I'm sorry if anyone else did.

2007-01-25 18:41:50
76.   OldYanksFan
Seeing how it looks like we have some slow Yankee weeks ahead, and while Alex takes some time for himself, maybe some of us can start a 'thread' on a relevamt topic that will generate some intelligent discourse?

Ideas anyone?

2007-01-25 18:42:29
77.   Jim Dean
Cool, bukkake is still on the menu. I'm sure Cashman can't wait.
2007-01-25 18:44:51
78.   Jim Dean
76 How about bukkake? Since it's Japanese in origin, I wonder if the animal Godziller partakes? Maybe he'll join in for the Cashman lovefest?
2007-01-25 21:06:41
79.   yankz
Sorry everyone. You can say whatever you want about me. Like, I'm way too obsessed with this one baseball site, perhaps you've heard of it.

76 Jeter's new girl, Gabrielle Union? The Super Bowl? The Knicks (kidding!)

2007-01-25 21:08:06
80.   yankz
How about JB Cox = Brien Taylor (see LoHud blog)?
2007-01-25 23:44:10
81.   bobtaco
76 The rubber-necking guilty pleasure that is watching the White Rapper show on VH1?

Anyone see Children of Men?

If you want a reeeeeally crazy cinematic experience, try to catch The Holy Mountain on it's rerelease tour if it comes through your town...

2007-01-26 00:39:12
82.   yankees at shanghai
i am a die-hard Yankees fan in shanghai China,and it was my great pleasure of reading Mr.Chass's article for Yankees' coming to China.

to my personal observation here,there are no more than 1000 local people in this 16 million population city are fans of the MLB games.there is a baseball club for amateur players here,and the city has a professional ballclub participating the Chinese League which has only six clubs.

i watch my favorate Yankees games from the ESPN live broadcastings,two or three games for one week.there is no games,or even the news,on the local cable screens or newspapers,the brief news of the steriods inside MLB is the only exception.

this situation is very bad for the fans like me.Last August,when the Yankees swept the sox by 5-0 in Fenway park,i just had no one to share my almost crazy happiness.this was a terrible feeling,i am very lonely here for my Yankees baseball.

so,the trip of Yankees to Beijing,is only the pave works for the future.Yankees is always the No.1 baseball name here,someone might know red sox,but no one seems to know the angels.

i hope the meeting in Beijing between the Yankees management and the Chinese authority will bring me more TV programms on the local channels covering this sport.what a feeling if someday one guy here is arguing with me for the rivalty between the Yanks and sox!

2007-01-26 07:11:41
83.   JL25and3
80 The important thing about Taylor wasn't just the career-ending injury, but what he was before that. In his wildest fantasies, Cox was never Brien Taylor.

But while we're on the subject: when did he go from being "J.B. Cox" to "J. Brent Cox?" He got tired of people thinking he was a Bubba, and wanted to join the country club instead?

2007-01-26 07:45:44
84.   Jim Dean
Honestly, I think JB was pissed about all the RHRP that were acquired this off-season (Britton, Vizcaino, Whelan, Ross, Jackson, Claggett - Six!?) and pulled a Brown and had an altercation with a wall. Or a bush (

Him, Beam, Veras, and Bean should hunt down Cashman and castrate him. Or else they might never find their way to the majors.

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