Goose didn't make the Hall once again, but he's getting closer. Meanwhile, Jim Rice lost votes, as did Bert Blyeleven. Over at The Baseball Analysts, our old bud Sully makes the case that Dwight Evans was better than Rice.
goose will most likely make it next year. tim "rock" raines, is the highest profile new comer to the ballot, i believe, and he's not getting much love at this point. there are a few good pieces on him and his excellent candidacy around the net, mostly comparing him to guys like brock, henderson, gwynn. raines does have a good case, but he certainly won't be voted on the first ballot, if at all...
hey, there was a Rob Gee sighting! both nomaas & pete abe have links to a randy hendricks Q&A and Rob Gee has a post there. nice to see he's still around...
7 goose is just about a lock for 08. i highly doubt big mac will be getting in next year. it's possible he gets in eventually, but certainly not anytime in the near future. raines has a pretty good case, but definitely not next year.
will goose go in alone? maybe he should. but with a light class, i guess it's possible bert "be home" blyleven and rice make the grade, though i'm not sure the latter should be in after reading so many compelling cases against online lately...
Presuming Goose does make it in next year, and I'm hoping he will, he's got to have NY on his cap, right? He spent more time with the Yanks than any other team (6+ years). Second was the White Sox with 5. Does anyone even remember his days with the White Sox?
I'm not sure what angers me more right now - Goose coming thisclose but not getting elected, or the illogical statements I keep hearing about McGwire (not from folks at the Banter). I can't believe what a scapegoat McGwire has been made into, because he didn't admit to anything or apologize in front of Congress. Its a disgrace.
3 et al - are we sure that's 'the' Rob Gee (aka OPP Rob Gee)?
10 I heard that the real Rob Gee was killed in some sort of wild goat/boating/drug smuggling/robotic ninjas accident. Pretty run-of-the-mill thing where he comes from.
yeah, i think goose goes in with a Yanks cap. certainly won't be pirates or padres! ; ) i guess it's up to the Hall, but he had his highest profile and most success in NY, and that seems to be how everyone remembers and associates him...
yup, it's THE Rob Gee - as he stated "I am a Yankees fan" in the thread about Pettitte/Clemens. it's gotta be 'the one'
8 oh, i'm no authority on it, but i think he was asked to leave, then was offered a return, but he has declined. i think, don't quote me...
Dream Steel Cage Match-Up: Rob Gee vs. Jim Dean.
Nightmare Tag Team: Rob Gee & Jim Dean.
I'm all for possibilitie$... >;)
10 If Big Mac is a scapegoat, what do we make of Bonds when his turn comes up? And does Rafael Palmeiro fit into the picture anymore? Or as a better comparison, Sammy Sosa? All I'm really saying is that if any from this particular group go in, they should all go in or none should go in. We'll see how the standards bear themselves out within the next few years...
15 Bonds will be a very different case, IMHO. Many writers think that he had HoF numbers before his suspected PED use. On the other hand, if he's indited for perjury and serves some federal prison time, who knows what will happen? Especially if this happens after he breaks Aaaron's record.
"All I'm really saying is that if any from this particular group go in, they should all go in or none should go in."
I agree, and that's why I get upset about it. We don't know who used what when (and is still using, if anyone is) and who didn't. We don't even know for sure when ballplayers started using - Tom House admitted to experimenting with steroids back in the late 60s. Its not like steroids weren't available until the 90s. All we have is speculation and circumstantial evidence, if anything at all. That's not enough, for me, to knock anyone, or everyone, out.
14 Aww, crap. I hope he hits the double of his life. Blessings...
13 You are indeed correct. After some back and forth, Ken was convinced to allow him to return to the site, but he has not responded. Maybe if someone were to let him know he was welcome (I'm not sure he ever got the message), then he might peek in. Then again, he seemed like a very proud individual, so that might be his sticking point. Also, we have no idea what was happening between then and now, so it's not fair to speculate on why we hadn't seen him until now.
After all, debris dropped in recently and hasn't been back since; not that a lot of folks really mind I'm sure since debris' a drop Ded Sox fan.
10 I just think the writers are petty individuals who wanted to send a message. I believe the message was sent. I'm not sure if there is a collusion/conspiracy to keep Mac out. That being said, no way Barry gets in on his first try, HR record or not. I truly believe that both will get in and there will be lots of hand-wringing, PED-nauseum and finger pointing. Ultimately MLB didn't look out for the "Best interests" of the game (screwing long term for the short term $) but what they did was not ever proven or it will turn out to be proven but with lots of ambiguity and ethical questions.
21... in which case they should all get in, or we should all pull a Harry Carson and tell Cooperstown to blow (not the town, but a particular resident). It's not like they "bet on baseball", rriiiiggghht?
23 Wow. Betting on baseball has been pretty much taboo for uh...ever. And I'm assuming you're talking about Rose, who was a whole different situation.
The language on steroids/PED's prior to the recent testing agreement was extremely weak. Nice Red Herring though.
Thanks, I am a Hitchcock fan (but not a rabid one, so don't ask me to quote anything) I was also thinking of Shoeless Joe, who was accused of throwing games for gamblers, but if I recall was never convicted and yet was banned by Landis, who's judgment will in my opinion always be in question.
I feel bad for Shoeless Joe and yes, I believe he did not throw The Series or give anything but his best efforts, but he did take the $. I also believe Comiskey was just as much of a SOB as was rumorred. I see no reason why Joe Jackson can't be inducted nowadays, especially with the amount of second, third and fouth chances that players get for various offenses these days.
In light of all the McGwire/Bonds HOF debate that we will have to endure for the next 20 years. I have adopted firejoemorgan's attitude towards the hall of fame. I no longer care about it. It's just beyond ridiculous.
30 PPV, No hitting above the belt (wrecks profit margins), and then a TT against Ron Burgandy with Schteeve...
JL25&3 can referee...
Sliced can do color commentary with wsporter and Shaun P ringside...
mikeplugh can be the announcer and of course, Alex and Cliff are the promoters with Ken being the big bad PPV exec.
Anybody want to lay the odds? (Bookie is still open...) Any positions I left out? Oh Bama, you're the director on the network side since you have a way of getting good shots...
14 Damn, that's bad news re: Murcer.
Here's hoping he pulls through.
I was wading through Retrosheet and found this weird play involving Murcer, and a great quote from him:
5-29-1982 NYA @ MIN – Stew reports that he attended this game. In the top of the
second Bobby Murcer and Graig Nettles singled. With the runners on the move, Roy
Smalley struck out. Sal Butera's throw to Gary Gaetti at 3b was so far ahead of Murcer that he stopped and retreated toward 2b where Nettles had arrived. Nettles then ran back to 1b. Gaetti threw to Kent Hrbek, who tagged Nettles out. Murcer then broke
for third. Hrbek threw to pitcher Terry Felton covering the bag and Murcer was out for a triple play. This is the play that caused Murcer to say, "We need a second base coach." The play is: K+CS3(25);CS2(31)/TP
34 perhaps i could reach a point where i disregard the enshrinement of particular players over others (at some point it becomes as much of a popularity contest as all-star voting).
...but have you ever been to cooperstown? i was there about 11 months ago. i was 10 years old again. it was bliss. the hall of fame is amazing. the library there is incredible. walking down main street? i highly recommend the trip to anyone who hasn't been.
i see what you're getting at schteeve, but i could never stay away from the place if the opportunity to go came up. i am a sucker that way.
31 I feel bad for Shoeless Joe too. I'm not sure to what extent he was involved in, or knew, about the fix. During that Series, though, he hit .375/.394/.562 with 1 HR and 6 RBI. Compare that to the "clean" 1917 Series where he only hit .304/.333/.304 with 0 HR and 2 RBI.
33 Interesting, but I don't think it proves anything. For all you know, I'm about to sign out, sign in as Mike Plugh, and reveal secrets about Japanese stars.
Am I the only one for Mattingly? Offensively comparable to Kirby Pucket without any sort of protection in the lineup and while a 1B instead of a CF, was a big Gold Glove 1B.
This one has gotten a lot of Banter lately ...
» June 24, 1970: In a doubleheader with the Indians at Yankee Stadium, Bobby Murcer ties Lou Gehrig's record of four straight homers. The Yanks lose the opener 7–2, despite Murcer's 9th-inning home run off Sam McDowell. Murcer next connects off game 2's starter Mike Paul, hitting a solo shot in the 1st inning. A walk in the 4th, then a 2-run homer off Paul in the 5th, and a game-tying homer in the 8th, off Fred Lasher. New York scores in the bottom of the 9th to salvage a 5–4 win.
» August 29, 1972: Yankee Bobby Murcer hits for the cycle against Texas. He's the first Yankee to cycle since Mickey Mantle in 1957: The next will be Tony Fernandez in 1995.
» July 13, 1973: Bobby Murcer hits three home runs, all off starter Gene Garber, and knocks in all the runs in the Yankees' 5–0 win over the Royals. Mel Stottlemyre scatters six hits in racking up his 39th shut out.
» October 22, 1974: The Giants and Yankees swap popular star outfielders: Bobby Bonds goes to the Yankees and Bobby Murcer heads to San Francisco. Bonds will play just one season in New York, hitting 32 home runs and stealing 32 bases, before leg injuries slowed him. Murcer swore he would never forgive the Yankees for trading him, but later he will relent when the Yanks reacquire him.
» February 11, 1977: The Cubs trade 3B Bill Madlock, the NL batting champ the past two seasons, and 2B Rod Sperring to the Giants for OF Bobby Murcer, IF Steve Ontiveros, and a minor league pitcher.
» June 26, 1979: The Yankees reacquire the popular Bobby Murcer from the Cubs in exchange for P Paul Semall and cash. Murcer will once again thrive in Yankee Stadium hitting .273 with eight home runs.
» August 6, 1979: In a night game following the funeral of Thurman Munson, Bobby Murcer drives in all five runs as the Yankees top Baltimore 5–4. Murcer has a 3-run home run and a 9th inning 2-run single.
44 Yeah, but even Donnie admitted his chances were limited given that his injuries sapped his strength and eventually shortened his career. Without the injuries he likely would have been a first balloter. He definitely deserves Monument status, though.
44 donnie was my idol growing up. i wear the #23 in my baseball league. he can do no wrong in my eyes.
i have given up hope of seeing his plaque in cooperstown. the injuries killed his chances. his numbers compared to HOF 1B just don't measure up. it stinks. if he was healthy, his early pace would've landed him there, but after this year, i decided not to get my hopes up anymore.
(but if he did manage to somehow get the votes? i'd do my damndest to be there when hewas inducted. if you show up as well, the drinks are on me.)
44 Being completely objective about it - Puckett's numbers vs other CFs of his time are better than Donnie Baseball's numbers vs other 1Bs of his time. Yes, he had an incredible peak, but the post-back-injury years are what kills Donnie's chances. Even though his defense was always top-rate, a first baseman isn't going to make the HoF primarily on his glovework the way a shortstop could (i.e., Ozzie Smith).
Subjectively, you damn well better believe he was a Hall of Famer. And so was Randolph, IMHO.
Completely off topic - Alex, I enjoyed your take on the Johnson deal that Jon Weisman mentioned over at Dodger Thoughts.
http://tinyurl.com/wk9ym
I've now heard both Alex's voice and Cliff's voice on the radio. Alex sounded like I expected Cliff to sound like, and Cliff sounded like what I expected Alex to sound like. Both sounded good.
For 4 years in a row, Donnie was one of the best players in the game. His defense was amazing. He turned the most difficult 3-6-3 DPs so casually, that it looked easy and routine. Charging the plate on bunts, making throws, fielding his position... he was simply great.. and always made it look easy.
But 4 years is not enough to make the HOF. In truth, if Donnie goes in, it opens the gates for many excellent players, but not all time greats. I, for one, do not want to see the HOF watered down. The 'elders' have already let in too many that don't deserve.
Donnie was still in his prime when he hurt his back. The year before, he posted a .925 OPS, which in that day, along with his GG, was pretty amazing. The year he hurt himself, he posted a .886 OPS. The next year, .773 and never had an OPS of .800 after.
He played 8 years after then injury. In 1990, his back problems flared up, and turned him into a .700 OPS guy the rest of his career.
I remember it well. Many, many warning track flies, that in his former days were solid HRs. His opposite field power, one of his strengths, especially suffered. I remember one game at Fenway when he had 2 doubles off the monster. Effortlessly. He looked like he could swat them that way at will.
His final numbers are not that good, but reflect at least 1/2 his career playing injured.
Its really a shame. In his day, he was such a pleasure to watch.
And FWIW, Kirby should not be in the HOF. Sentimentality, I guess.
50 Hmmm, maybe I am Rob Gee. I never even thought of that. Now that I think about it, I was wondering why Alex started posting those links to...
Wait a minute, I don't even know how to spell "conflict of interest" not to mention I don't even like to eat stew... ;-)
53 "To Gee, or not to Gee: that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
the swings and errors of outrageous Cash-Man,
or to draft arms against a sea of doubles,
and by opposing sign them?"
If you're going to log out and log in as me, you'll be away for a while changing loads of diapers! The only secret I'm going to reveal about any Japanese stars is that my boy produces more shit than Mike Lupica! (Only Hiroto's smells better.)
It still says Scranton Wilkes-Barre Red Barrons in the 2007 Possible Campers AAA notes in the right margin. Gotta get that branding out there Alex and Cliffy.
Joe Sheehan thinks that the Yanks got the lesser end of the RJ trade:
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=5801
The basic gist of the article is that the Yanks didn't get very good prospects in return for what could be a good lefty, at least a left of RJ's reputation.
-------------
Excerpts:
"It's not easy to make a deal with the Diamondbacks and not come out of it with some upside, but that's what the Yankees have done."
"This wasn't even the best package of guys you've never heard of; the Yankees, staring at a hole at first base, would have been better off working Scott Hairston, Chris Carter or Brian Barden into this deal than taking Vizcaino or Gonzalez. The Diamondbacks have no room for any of them, they can all hit and all are better short-term fixes than Rule 5 pick Josh Phelps."
"The two pitching prospects in the deal are largely of a kind, college righthanders who are longer on command and skills than raw stuff, and who project as back-end guys in the majors. Both Russ Ohlendorf and Steven Jackson were '04 draftees, and both put up strong strikeout-to-walk ratios and low home-run rates at Double-A Tennessee last year, but mediocre strikeout rates for that level. That's not a combination that bodes well for 2007 at Triple-A or any kind of MLB future. The infielder, Alberto Gonzalez, is a poor man's Erick Aybar, a contact-hitting shortstop without much power. "
-------------
So unless the money saved ends up bringing Clemens back for a year, this deal does not look good for Cashman.
Speaking of insanity....
"Mark Mulder is staying with the St. Louis Cardinals, agreeing Wednesday to $13 million, two-year contract. Mulder was 6-7 with a 7.14 ERA in 17 starts last year"
Again, 6.5$m for 7.14 ERA, OK. OK. The guy still has potential.
"The 29-year-old left-hander, recovering from rotator cuff surgery, is expected to miss the first half of next season."
OK. OK. 13$m for 1.5 years. OK. OK. The guy still has potential.
"ESPN's Peter Gammons reports that if Mulder makes 30 starts in 2007 and 2008, incentives can make the deal worth three years and $45 million."
Say what???????????
Is the fact the McGwire was shunned from the hall because he is a SUSPECTED steroid user (as opposed to a proven one) an issue for discussion? Do all SUSPECTED steroid users also get nixed? What about quasi-suspected players (Rajah, Andy)? And what of player that did use but did not appear before congress of get named in a book (like maybe 100's of players)?
I think McGwire is a cheater, much like other known cheaters already in the HOF. Is this not a very slippery slope?
Those who deny the existence of Rob Gee may be Rob Gee themselves.
As for McGwire, here is my cautious optimism: many writers may currently feel peer pressured into voting against him, because they might be judged as "soft on drugs," or whatever. I think that this sentiment might change when it is revealed that a lot of fans are simply ambivalent about the whole situation, and are just as likely to laud McGwire in 2018 as they were in 1998 for famously lifting baseball from the doldrums back into the mainstream. And it is the Hall of Fame, right? Not the Hall of Very Good Baseball Players. Not the Hall of Chosen Morality. Fame should matter, making a difference to the game of baseball should matter. McGwire will eventually be in the Hall.
60 I could care less what anyone says about the players we got. People have to remember that Randy Johnson is a 43 year old, 6'10" pitcher with a recent back surgery, a flat slider, and a slowing fastball. He can still win games for you for a year or two, but he's surly, likely to break down again at any minute, and has shown zero in the playoffs for two straight years.
What we got back in return was 4 potential Major Leaguers. If one of the pitchers turns out to be a serviceable 4th or 5th starter, Vizcaino does his part in 2007, and Gonzales is either a utility guy or part of a trade package, it's better than Randy Johnson in the long run.
The Yankees are looking long term. These players, with the exception of Vizcaino, mean absolutely nothing in winter 2007. Nothing. Zero. It's a salary dump.
In 6, 12, 18 months if any of these guys is either contributing the ML roster, or is packaged to get a very good or great veteran, job well done in my book. Finally, did you see how happy Johnson was to be back in Arizona? I know there's money involved, but there's also a human element. If you have a guy who is merely putting up with his situation and would be super happy somewhere else, maybe it makes sense to help him end his career in a better situation.
well, looks like i missed today's thread. typed up my biggest post ever and it got deleted due to site problems. : /
yeah, the Mulder contract is weird. those incentives are pretty outrageous. he was wise to stay w/ the Cards though and not head to the AL.
donnie's #'s are eerily similar to kirby's. i guess the position and postseason were the dealbreakers. and major ones at that... i had the #23 Hit Man t-shirt as a kid. probably still have it at my mom's. if so, i'll give it to one of my nephew's like i did the awesome original Reggie t-shirt from the late 70's. i miss the 2nd wave of Reg-gie bars from the 90's. those things were AMAZING!
funny stuff from both steve goldman and firejoemorgan today. literally laughing aloud. i followed one of the player links at FJM and it took me to... Mark Lemke, of Utica, NY -- see how i tied that into the recent thread of the Blue Sox? kyle petterson's awesomeness is contagious! ; )
thurman was my very first favorite player and idol. his death rattled me massively and still affects me to this day. i was young, but his accident is surely the direct link to my major fear of flying. what Murcer did that first game back simply transcends baseball. i wish his a swift and complete recovery!
59 good eyes, Mike! hope you're getting some sleep between diaper changes!!!
the steroids era 'should' bring upon positive attention to players such as griffey jr., a-rod, thome, manny, delgado and the like...
50 nice! i had a similar reaction. i haven't heard cliff's voice yet, but alex's was definitely different than what i was expecting, so i know exactly what you mean. i listened to part of the radio interview via jon weisman's site. i started listening a little bit in and had to rewind to the intros 'coz i didn't believe that was alex talking!
52 Well, if this main event is as big as you say it will be, Chyll, then there ought to be room for 4 sideline guys (plus Sliced). I don't want to give up such an opportunity so easily - though I'm sure Alex and Cliff and wsporter would all be better at it than me.
hey, there was a Rob Gee sighting! both nomaas & pete abe have links to a randy hendricks Q&A and Rob Gee has a post there. nice to see he's still around...
http://tinyurl.com/uyrtt
1 mr. taco, I thank for the consideration, but it is I who makes the first post awesome, not the other way around.
will goose go in alone? maybe he should. but with a light class, i guess it's possible bert "be home" blyleven and rice make the grade, though i'm not sure the latter should be in after reading so many compelling cases against online lately...
I'm not sure what angers me more right now - Goose coming thisclose but not getting elected, or the illogical statements I keep hearing about McGwire (not from folks at the Banter). I can't believe what a scapegoat McGwire has been made into, because he didn't admit to anything or apologize in front of Congress. Its a disgrace.
3 et al - are we sure that's 'the' Rob Gee (aka OPP Rob Gee)?
yup, it's THE Rob Gee - as he stated "I am a Yankees fan" in the thread about Pettitte/Clemens. it's gotta be 'the one'
8 oh, i'm no authority on it, but i think he was asked to leave, then was offered a return, but he has declined. i think, don't quote me...
Daily News is reporting his condition 'grave':
http://tinyurl.com/w6hr2
Ugh.
Nightmare Tag Team: Rob Gee & Jim Dean.
I'm all for possibilitie$... >;)
10 If Big Mac is a scapegoat, what do we make of Bonds when his turn comes up? And does Rafael Palmeiro fit into the picture anymore? Or as a better comparison, Sammy Sosa? All I'm really saying is that if any from this particular group go in, they should all go in or none should go in. We'll see how the standards bear themselves out within the next few years...
"All I'm really saying is that if any from this particular group go in, they should all go in or none should go in."
I agree, and that's why I get upset about it. We don't know who used what when (and is still using, if anyone is) and who didn't. We don't even know for sure when ballplayers started using - Tom House admitted to experimenting with steroids back in the late 60s. Its not like steroids weren't available until the 90s. All we have is speculation and circumstantial evidence, if anything at all. That's not enough, for me, to knock anyone, or everyone, out.
13 You are indeed correct. After some back and forth, Ken was convinced to allow him to return to the site, but he has not responded. Maybe if someone were to let him know he was welcome (I'm not sure he ever got the message), then he might peek in. Then again, he seemed like a very proud individual, so that might be his sticking point. Also, we have no idea what was happening between then and now, so it's not fair to speculate on why we hadn't seen him until now.
After all, debris dropped in recently and hasn't been back since; not that a lot of folks really mind I'm sure since debris' a drop Ded Sox fan.
aw crap ....
(getting a tissue out)
sigh ....
The language on steroids/PED's prior to the recent testing agreement was extremely weak. Nice Red Herring though.
Floyd or Kenesaw Mountain?
(I'll fight him anytime or have him as my tag team partner)
Actually, has anyone every seen Rob Gee and Jim Dean in the same room (or chat room in this case) together... Hmmmm could it be?
JL25&3 can referee...
Sliced can do color commentary with wsporter and Shaun P ringside...
mikeplugh can be the announcer and of course, Alex and Cliff are the promoters with Ken being the big bad PPV exec.
Anybody want to lay the odds? (Bookie is still open...) Any positions I left out? Oh Bama, you're the director on the network side since you have a way of getting good shots...
Here's hoping he pulls through.
I was wading through Retrosheet and found this weird play involving Murcer, and a great quote from him:
5-29-1982 NYA @ MIN – Stew reports that he attended this game. In the top of the
second Bobby Murcer and Graig Nettles singled. With the runners on the move, Roy
Smalley struck out. Sal Butera's throw to Gary Gaetti at 3b was so far ahead of Murcer that he stopped and retreated toward 2b where Nettles had arrived. Nettles then ran back to 1b. Gaetti threw to Kent Hrbek, who tagged Nettles out. Murcer then broke
for third. Hrbek threw to pitcher Terry Felton covering the bag and Murcer was out for a triple play. This is the play that caused Murcer to say, "We need a second base coach." The play is: K+CS3(25);CS2(31)/TP
Get well soon, Bobby!
...but have you ever been to cooperstown? i was there about 11 months ago. i was 10 years old again. it was bliss. the hall of fame is amazing. the library there is incredible. walking down main street? i highly recommend the trip to anyone who hasn't been.
i see what you're getting at schteeve, but i could never stay away from the place if the opportunity to go came up. i am a sucker that way.
32 I've had the same thought.
Serious, serious bummer. I know George will do something to honor him.
More Murcer highlights from BaseballLibrary.com
http://tinyurl.com/yn5r9j
This one has gotten a lot of Banter lately ...
» June 24, 1970: In a doubleheader with the Indians at Yankee Stadium, Bobby Murcer ties Lou Gehrig's record of four straight homers. The Yanks lose the opener 7–2, despite Murcer's 9th-inning home run off Sam McDowell. Murcer next connects off game 2's starter Mike Paul, hitting a solo shot in the 1st inning. A walk in the 4th, then a 2-run homer off Paul in the 5th, and a game-tying homer in the 8th, off Fred Lasher. New York scores in the bottom of the 9th to salvage a 5–4 win.
» August 29, 1972: Yankee Bobby Murcer hits for the cycle against Texas. He's the first Yankee to cycle since Mickey Mantle in 1957: The next will be Tony Fernandez in 1995.
» July 13, 1973: Bobby Murcer hits three home runs, all off starter Gene Garber, and knocks in all the runs in the Yankees' 5–0 win over the Royals. Mel Stottlemyre scatters six hits in racking up his 39th shut out.
» October 22, 1974: The Giants and Yankees swap popular star outfielders: Bobby Bonds goes to the Yankees and Bobby Murcer heads to San Francisco. Bonds will play just one season in New York, hitting 32 home runs and stealing 32 bases, before leg injuries slowed him. Murcer swore he would never forgive the Yankees for trading him, but later he will relent when the Yanks reacquire him.
» February 11, 1977: The Cubs trade 3B Bill Madlock, the NL batting champ the past two seasons, and 2B Rod Sperring to the Giants for OF Bobby Murcer, IF Steve Ontiveros, and a minor league pitcher.
» June 26, 1979: The Yankees reacquire the popular Bobby Murcer from the Cubs in exchange for P Paul Semall and cash. Murcer will once again thrive in Yankee Stadium hitting .273 with eight home runs.
» August 6, 1979: In a night game following the funeral of Thurman Munson, Bobby Murcer drives in all five runs as the Yankees top Baltimore 5–4. Murcer has a 3-run home run and a 9th inning 2-run single.
i have given up hope of seeing his plaque in cooperstown. the injuries killed his chances. his numbers compared to HOF 1B just don't measure up. it stinks. if he was healthy, his early pace would've landed him there, but after this year, i decided not to get my hopes up anymore.
(but if he did manage to somehow get the votes? i'd do my damndest to be there when hewas inducted. if you show up as well, the drinks are on me.)
Rob Gee's last post was 6-21-06
Jim Dean's first post was 6-22-06
Coincidence???? I think not!!!
Just kidding, Jim's first post was 8-16-06 (but hey, he still could be Rob Gee).
Subjectively, you damn well better believe he was a Hall of Famer. And so was Randolph, IMHO.
Completely off topic - Alex, I enjoyed your take on the Johnson deal that Jon Weisman mentioned over at Dodger Thoughts.
http://tinyurl.com/wk9ym
I've now heard both Alex's voice and Cliff's voice on the radio. Alex sounded like I expected Cliff to sound like, and Cliff sounded like what I expected Alex to sound like. Both sounded good.
But 4 years is not enough to make the HOF. In truth, if Donnie goes in, it opens the gates for many excellent players, but not all time greats. I, for one, do not want to see the HOF watered down. The 'elders' have already let in too many that don't deserve.
Donnie was still in his prime when he hurt his back. The year before, he posted a .925 OPS, which in that day, along with his GG, was pretty amazing. The year he hurt himself, he posted a .886 OPS. The next year, .773 and never had an OPS of .800 after.
He played 8 years after then injury. In 1990, his back problems flared up, and turned him into a .700 OPS guy the rest of his career.
I remember it well. Many, many warning track flies, that in his former days were solid HRs. His opposite field power, one of his strengths, especially suffered. I remember one game at Fenway when he had 2 doubles off the monster. Effortlessly. He looked like he could swat them that way at will.
His final numbers are not that good, but reflect at least 1/2 his career playing injured.
Its really a shame. In his day, he was such a pleasure to watch.
And FWIW, Kirby should not be in the HOF. Sentimentality, I guess.
Wait a minute, I don't even know how to spell "conflict of interest" not to mention I don't even like to eat stew... ;-)
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
the swings and errors of outrageous Cash-Man,
or to draft arms against a sea of doubles,
and by opposing sign them?"
most often pondered by Andy Gibb during the seventies?
If you're going to log out and log in as me, you'll be away for a while changing loads of diapers! The only secret I'm going to reveal about any Japanese stars is that my boy produces more shit than Mike Lupica! (Only Hiroto's smells better.)
It still says Scranton Wilkes-Barre Red Barrons in the 2007 Possible Campers AAA notes in the right margin. Gotta get that branding out there Alex and Cliffy.
SWB Yankees in e-double f-e-c-t.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=5801
The basic gist of the article is that the Yanks didn't get very good prospects in return for what could be a good lefty, at least a left of RJ's reputation.
-------------
Excerpts:
"It's not easy to make a deal with the Diamondbacks and not come out of it with some upside, but that's what the Yankees have done."
"This wasn't even the best package of guys you've never heard of; the Yankees, staring at a hole at first base, would have been better off working Scott Hairston, Chris Carter or Brian Barden into this deal than taking Vizcaino or Gonzalez. The Diamondbacks have no room for any of them, they can all hit and all are better short-term fixes than Rule 5 pick Josh Phelps."
"The two pitching prospects in the deal are largely of a kind, college righthanders who are longer on command and skills than raw stuff, and who project as back-end guys in the majors. Both Russ Ohlendorf and Steven Jackson were '04 draftees, and both put up strong strikeout-to-walk ratios and low home-run rates at Double-A Tennessee last year, but mediocre strikeout rates for that level. That's not a combination that bodes well for 2007 at Triple-A or any kind of MLB future. The infielder, Alberto Gonzalez, is a poor man's Erick Aybar, a contact-hitting shortstop without much power. "
-------------
So unless the money saved ends up bringing Clemens back for a year, this deal does not look good for Cashman.
"Mark Mulder is staying with the St. Louis Cardinals, agreeing Wednesday to $13 million, two-year contract. Mulder was 6-7 with a 7.14 ERA in 17 starts last year"
Again, 6.5$m for 7.14 ERA, OK. OK. The guy still has potential.
"The 29-year-old left-hander, recovering from rotator cuff surgery, is expected to miss the first half of next season."
OK. OK. 13$m for 1.5 years. OK. OK. The guy still has potential.
"ESPN's Peter Gammons reports that if Mulder makes 30 starts in 2007 and 2008, incentives can make the deal worth three years and $45 million."
Say what???????????
Is the fact the McGwire was shunned from the hall because he is a SUSPECTED steroid user (as opposed to a proven one) an issue for discussion? Do all SUSPECTED steroid users also get nixed? What about quasi-suspected players (Rajah, Andy)? And what of player that did use but did not appear before congress of get named in a book (like maybe 100's of players)?
I think McGwire is a cheater, much like other known cheaters already in the HOF. Is this not a very slippery slope?
As for McGwire, here is my cautious optimism: many writers may currently feel peer pressured into voting against him, because they might be judged as "soft on drugs," or whatever. I think that this sentiment might change when it is revealed that a lot of fans are simply ambivalent about the whole situation, and are just as likely to laud McGwire in 2018 as they were in 1998 for famously lifting baseball from the doldrums back into the mainstream. And it is the Hall of Fame, right? Not the Hall of Very Good Baseball Players. Not the Hall of Chosen Morality. Fame should matter, making a difference to the game of baseball should matter. McGwire will eventually be in the Hall.
What we got back in return was 4 potential Major Leaguers. If one of the pitchers turns out to be a serviceable 4th or 5th starter, Vizcaino does his part in 2007, and Gonzales is either a utility guy or part of a trade package, it's better than Randy Johnson in the long run.
The Yankees are looking long term. These players, with the exception of Vizcaino, mean absolutely nothing in winter 2007. Nothing. Zero. It's a salary dump.
In 6, 12, 18 months if any of these guys is either contributing the ML roster, or is packaged to get a very good or great veteran, job well done in my book. Finally, did you see how happy Johnson was to be back in Arizona? I know there's money involved, but there's also a human element. If you have a guy who is merely putting up with his situation and would be super happy somewhere else, maybe it makes sense to help him end his career in a better situation.
yeah, the Mulder contract is weird. those incentives are pretty outrageous. he was wise to stay w/ the Cards though and not head to the AL.
donnie's #'s are eerily similar to kirby's. i guess the position and postseason were the dealbreakers. and major ones at that... i had the #23 Hit Man t-shirt as a kid. probably still have it at my mom's. if so, i'll give it to one of my nephew's like i did the awesome original Reggie t-shirt from the late 70's. i miss the 2nd wave of Reg-gie bars from the 90's. those things were AMAZING!
funny stuff from both steve goldman and firejoemorgan today. literally laughing aloud. i followed one of the player links at FJM and it took me to... Mark Lemke, of Utica, NY -- see how i tied that into the recent thread of the Blue Sox? kyle petterson's awesomeness is contagious! ; )
thurman was my very first favorite player and idol. his death rattled me massively and still affects me to this day. i was young, but his accident is surely the direct link to my major fear of flying. what Murcer did that first game back simply transcends baseball. i wish his a swift and complete recovery!
59 good eyes, Mike! hope you're getting some sleep between diaper changes!!!
the steroids era 'should' bring upon positive attention to players such as griffey jr., a-rod, thome, manny, delgado and the like...
50 nice! i had a similar reaction. i haven't heard cliff's voice yet, but alex's was definitely different than what i was expecting, so i know exactly what you mean. i listened to part of the radio interview via jon weisman's site. i started listening a little bit in and had to rewind to the intros 'coz i didn't believe that was alex talking!
what else? oh yeah... i'm rob gee.
67 Eminem is now stuck in my head.
For the last time, I am not, nor have I ever been, nor will I ever be, Rob Gee.
This is what a slow off-season reduces us to.
Maybe he is Rob Gee?
Comment status: comments have been closed. Baseball Toaster is now out of business.