Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
Thanks for Giving
2006-11-22 08:31
by Alex Belth

If there is any one man baseball players have a reason to give thanks to, that man is Marvin Miller. Murray Chass makes a case for Miller to be elected into the Hall of Fame. Color me cynical but I don't have much faith that Miller will ever be given his due. That's too bad, but it says more about the voters than it does about Miller or his tremendous impact on the game.

2006-11-22 09:11:13
1.   mehmattski
Good article... I find it interesting that Reggie originally thought that only players should be in the HoF, but now he's changing his tune. On a day when most Yankees fans can't imagine what goes through the heads of people who vote for things like this... it's sad to think that an acknowledgement for someone's tremendous contribution may come down to no more than a glorified popularity contest. It's like student council elections all over again.
2006-11-22 09:47:21
2.   Simone
Alex, I'm glad that you gave Chass' article its own comment. I have to say that I have slowly come around to agree you that Miller will never get elected into the Hall of Fame. Reading Reggie and Schmidt's reactions to Chass' name on the ballot is disheartening.
2006-11-22 09:57:54
3.   Shawn Clap
So it's Miller we have to thank for $10 beers and $20 Upper Deck seats?

I can't wait for the Chass article explaining why Scott Boras should be in the Hall of Fame.

2006-11-22 10:14:14
4.   Schteeve
I agree, there's no way Miller shouldn't be in the HoF. It's ridiculous that he isn't.
2006-11-22 10:23:50
5.   jakewoods

u arent serious are you? blaming workers for trying to get what they are worth on a free market.
damn that capitlistic swine!!

bring back communism, shawn clap

2006-11-22 10:43:45
6.   Jimmy Clark
Is Miller really the one who made players rich in the last 40 years? Possibly but consider that lots of sports have made athletes rich without a strong union: golf, tennis, NASCAR. Even the top professional rodeo rider gets $1 million a year. Those sports have no union to speak of. Also the picture at the top is wrong. Curt Flood lost his case to end free agency..people like Miller keep promoting that because movements love martyrs, especially if they lost or died. Miller also deserves a lot of blame for the cocaine scandals 25 years ago and the steroids of recent years. He and Fehr should have been listed as "cause of death"on Ken Caminiti's death certificate.
2006-11-22 10:46:03
7.   Shawn Clap
5 I wasn't talking about workers, I was talking about baseball players.
2006-11-22 10:49:16
8.   Jimmy Clark
Another thing to consider is the MLBPA has always refused to help other union members who are on strike, be it umpires or concession workers. They got theirs so why should they care about anyone else? Has Miller and Fehr ever tried to do anything for them? Even help former Negro League players or players who retired before 1946 when pensions came into being? I know federal labor laws make it difficult to divert funds but could Miller and Fehr launch a voluntary fund drive? But that would mean players would have to settle for a Porsche instead of a Ferrari. But if Cooperstown can allow Will Harridge and Tom Yawkey in, they can allow Marvin Miller.
2006-11-22 11:21:50
9.   Raf
3 No. Player salaries have no bearing on what a team will charge for seats or concessions. You may want to blame the market for that. I'd bet you those $10 beers come down in price if they allowed competition from Stans across the street.
2006-11-22 11:33:44
10.   kylepetterson
9 I would think that the group of guys who sit in front of me and have 6 or 7 each may have something to do with it also. They charge that much because people will pay that much. End of story.
2006-11-22 11:36:19
11.   standuptriple
10 That's why I bring Mr. Flask
2006-11-22 11:38:01
12.   kylepetterson
11 Have you seen that "Beer Belly"? It's like a camelbak that fits around your gut that you fill with beer. I'm not a drinker, but I have to say that that is clever.
2006-11-22 11:41:58
13.   jakewoods
They should charge as much as they want for beers. If they charge 20 bucks and people buy them at the same rate as the 5 buck ones, why not?
2006-11-22 11:42:34
14.   Raf
10 I prefer to pregame in the parking lot. Otherwise I used to sneak loaded bottles of soda into the stadium. A bottle of coke and a bottle of coke cut with rum look an awful lot alike :)
2006-11-22 11:46:12
15.   Bama Yankee
12 For those who have not seen it:
2006-11-22 12:11:12
16.   kylepetterson
I went to a hockey game out here in Phoenix a couple years back with some friends of mine and we had "Platinum Club" access. The Platinum club was/is a restaurant that overlooked the ice.

Beer on the floor: $7

Beer in the Platinum Club: $11

The beer on the floor came in a larger cup and you could bring it up to the Platinum Club. Did anybody? Not very many. People are silly. Just give me my $5 bottle of water and my $8 hotdog and I'll be happy.

2006-11-22 12:11:47
17.   OldYanksFan
I've got an above average defensive CF'er.
He's been with 7 teams in 8 years.
He's 32 years old.
Last year was his best... .866 OPS
Has a Career OPS of .755
Had an OPS over .790 only twice in 8 years
Has a Career OBP of .336
64 SB / 28 CS = 69%
Made 2.4 mil in 2006
What's he worth?
(These are Melky numbers)

"Matthews, Angels agree to 5-year, $50M deal"

I guess that great catch he made was worth about $15 mil

2006-11-22 12:34:21
18.   standuptriple
12 I already have one (au naturale). If I wore one of those people would say, "Look at that poor guy with the huge tumor on his beer gut."
2006-11-22 12:36:18
19.   standuptriple
17 Still too pricey and too long for Beantown. That Damon deal is looking like a steal.
2006-11-22 12:36:44
20.   Raf
17 "It isn't the high price of stars that is expensive, it's the high price of mediocrity." - Bill Veeck
2006-11-22 12:37:21
21.   Yankee Fan In Boston
17 crazy money. i hope i don't jinx this, but thus far, the yankees have been one of (if not, THE) thriftiest teams in MLB. that big gap in payrolls should start to level out in a couple of years if this new pattern holds.
2006-11-22 12:38:20
22.   jakewoods
The Damon signing is looking to be a huge bargain right now.
2006-11-22 12:42:29
23.   Bama Yankee
18 Good one, standuptriple. Wouldn't have liked to have incorporated one of those BeerBelly devices into your chest protector back when you played catcher?
2006-11-22 12:42:52
24.   Yankee Fan In Boston
19 22 ...and jd drew is rumored to want a 5 year deal at $56M. the sox are also rumored to be seriously considering such a deal. amazing.
2006-11-22 12:45:01
25.   Bama Yankee
19 & 22 Heck, if this keeps up the A-Rod deal is going to look like a bargain...
2006-11-22 12:48:18
26.   Yankee Fan In Boston
one upside to the matthews jr. deal is that drew is a considerably better player than matthews jr.

...if i were him, i'd hold out for more now that the prices are so high and there are fewer players left out on the market.

have fun with that, theo.

2006-11-22 12:52:32
27.   Raf
Ha, check out the analysis at the good ship Mariner (:

"at age 31, he has a career year, hitting .313/.371/.495 as an everyday center fielder. However, there wasn't a significant change in his skillset - his walk rate declined slightly, his power was exactly where it was the previous two seasons, he didn't hit any more line drives, and his HR rate actually fell. The improvement was completely and utterly tied to his ability to have balls fall into gaps where fielders weren't standing.

The Angels apparently think that's a repeatable skill, and are now going to pay Matthews Jr $10 million a season for his age 32, 33, 34, 35, and 36 seasons. They could have claimed him on waivers any one of four times during the past five years, or traded a non-prospect for him, or signed him to a minor league contract when he was released by the Braves.

But no, they didn't think enough of him then to take him when he was free. A six month stretch where a few extra balls find a hole here or there and a diving catch that ends up on Sportscenter, and now, he's a $50 million player. "

2006-11-22 12:54:29
28.   standuptriple
23 Too much temptation.
I too am loving the Yanks on the sidelines. All these teams getting over their heads will provide a saturated market when the Yanks go mid-season shopping in future years.
2006-11-22 13:01:37
29.   Peter
25 A-Rod's already a bargain when compared to Matsuzaka.
2006-11-22 13:05:12
30.   Yankee Fan In Boston
25 29 he's a bargain if you consider that texas is footing much of the bill.
2006-11-22 13:16:19
31.   kylepetterson
Last night on ESPN radio they were asking what (in sports) you were thankful for.

I'm thankful that it's not 2 years ago because the Yankees would have outbid the Cubs on Soriano.

2006-11-22 13:18:11
32.   jonnystrongleg
if drew wants "only" 56 for 5 after pierre gets 45 for 5 and matthews gets 50 for 5, the red sox should send a contract to him at every possible address by every possible courier and get that done in the next 5 minutes.
2006-11-22 13:22:40
33.   Yankee Fan In Boston
32 exactly my point. if drew has any cents, he'll hold out for even more than that. especially if lee signs soon.
2006-11-22 13:23:29
34.   jonnystrongleg
31 2 years ago the yanks did not out bid the mets for carlos beltran and lost the 2005 alds because they lacked a MLB CF on the roster. i disagree with the notion perpetuated here that the yanks have been spending blindly since 2001 and have now "figured it out."

the problems with the yanks free agent / trade acquisitions since 2001 are due to two main factors: not anticipating the steroid fallout vis a vis a long term giambi signing and not understanding how to interpret NL pitching stats. only in giambi did the yanks acquire the most expensive player available.

2006-11-22 13:33:05
35.   kylepetterson
34 Woah, way to get really excited over my lame joke.

Seriously, though. Good job.

2006-11-22 13:34:09
36.   jonnystrongleg
31 But your larger point that the Yanks have seemingly turned a corner in player acquisition since the disastrous 2004 off-season is well taken.
2006-11-22 13:42:17
37.   kylepetterson
36 It's all in good fun, man. You're right though. More than the spending, I hope Cash learned something about chemistry this year. I really think that our playoff run would have been a lot stronger w/ Melky in it. Not because I think that he is a better player than Matsui, or that his defense would have made a difference, but the team seemed to be gelling really well. It would have been so easy to just bring him back in '07. Oh well, hindsight and all....
2006-11-22 14:51:26
38.   Yankee Fan In Boston
here is something that is completely unreliable and unsubstantiated, but would make me so very happy if it were accurate and were to happen:

nick "the stick" johnson's return to the bronx?

2006-11-22 17:12:56
39.   joejoejoe
38 If the Nats trade Nick Johnson for prospects they are stupid as rocks.
2006-11-22 18:03:38
40.   New Amsterdam Yankees
32, 33 Actually, I believe Drew is looking for $56 million over 4 years, not 5. MORE than Damon. And the Red Sox are thinking of paying it. For a guy who has played in more than 110 games only 4 times in the last 8 years. And 145 only twice. Damon hasn't played under 145 games in a season since he was 21.

I generally think Theo is a smart guy, but I'm having difficulty seeing the logic of some of his recent moves.

2006-11-22 18:16:33
41.   David
39 We already know that the Nats are as stupid as rocks. Look at their mistake in failing to trade Soriano in mid-season.
2006-11-22 18:38:11
42.   Peter
38 Nick the Stick is on my short list of active players who I wish were still a Yankee.

Must not get my hopes up, must not get my hopes up...

2006-11-22 18:49:22
43.   Raf
41 Not to mention the Vinny Castilla & Christian Guzman signings...
2006-11-22 19:00:24
44.   Yu-Hsing Chen
41 would be an abosalutely hilarious poetic justice if we trade Darrel Rasner back to the Nats for Nick Johnson.

A few other guys that may be avalible.

Richie Sexson: he's expensive, he's defense is only better than Giambi, but he's also a big bat, and Seattle might actually take Carl Pavano . and Sexson is only a 2 year commitment.

Morgan Ensberg: the Astros are foolishly down on him, we could snatch him with some combination of Proctor/Pavano/Karsten etc... he's still not too expensive, though he is a FA after 07.

2006-11-22 19:11:39
45.   Jim Dean
After Thanksgiving, what about these X-mas presents, and hopefully early?:

Sanchez and Ehlers for Texeira?

Tabata and Gardner for FLA Cabrera?

Beam and Britton for Lidge?

There must be a Santa!?

2006-11-22 20:42:05
46.   3rd gen yankee fan
Nick Johnson!?!?! Hey I love the guy but he's the definition of "injury-prone player."
2006-11-23 06:55:28
47.   wsporter
38 "...Our D.C. guy works for a major league team so his stuff is always reliable..." What? Well I guess that makes that unimpeachable. Why do people say things like that?

I hated it when we traded him, I'd love to get him back. That sweet stroke would just look so good over there. For anyone though that saw Nick carried off the field last September there has to be some hesitation till we find out if he'll be able to walk normally again let alone run. Last I heard he was walking with a cane in early November and going back in for surgery to clean out his right knee.

If he's okay it would make a great Christmas gift. Hell, it would make a great Christmas gift if he's okay period; no matter who he plays for.

Happy Thanksgiving everybody!

2006-11-24 06:35:53
48.   Simone
Happy Holidays to all!

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