Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
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2006-11-10 12:28
by Alex Belth

According to Jon Heyman, Sheff is headed to the Motor City.

* * *

Cliff here with some quick takes on the three pitching prospects the Yankees have obtained from the Tigers (from my comments to the previous post):

Humberto Sanchez is a big Dominican righty who went to high school in the Bronx. He'll be 24 in May and cracked AAA for the first time late in 2006. He pitched well there in nine starts, but was shut down in late July with tenderness in his pitching elbow (a reoccuring problem as he's made no more than 23 starts in any single season). His track record doesn't wow you, but he has high strikeout rates and seems to have brought the wildness he suffered in the low minors under control. Last year he allowed just four homers in 123 innings over 20 starts thanks to a Chien-Ming Wang-like mid-90s sinker. Bottom line: he's young, gets his Ks, is reducing his walks, keeps the ball in the park and on the ground, and is almost ready for the show. Assuming he passes his physical, he should be inserted right into the fifth starter equasion with Darrell Rasner and Jeffrey Karstens.

Kevin Whelan, apart from being hilarious as Mr. Subliminal back in the day, is a high-strikeout, high-walk righty reliever who was drafted by the Tigers out of Texas A&M last year. He'll be 23 in January and flat out smoked the Florida State League (high A) this year to the point that his high walk rate almost didn't matter. Anthony Claggett is a very similar sort, but with fewer walks, but also fewer Ks and six months younger. He didn't allow a home run in 59 1/3 innings in the Midwest League (A-ball) in 2006. Basically these two are both like some sort of mix between Kyle Farnsworth and J. Brent Cox, with Whelan being more of the former and Claggett more of the latter. I expect both to advance quickly as long as they're able to make some small improvements on their control.

Comments (115)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-11-10 12:32:30
1.   tommyl
Anyone know these guys we're getting? Sanchez looks like a power guy with a lot of wildness who gives up a boatload of HRs at AA.
2006-11-10 12:35:14
2.   jonnystrongleg
No immediate help for Sheffield, Matsuzaka likely a Red Sock, this Friday SUX.
2006-11-10 12:57:10
3.   joejoejoe
Here's a bit I found from Mack Avenue Tigers, a Detroit blog: "This is a tougher call than I'd expected it to be, but I sided with Humberto Sanchez [for Minor Leaguer of the Year], of AAA Toledo and before that, AA Erie. Cameron Maybin was another strong possibility with his stellar season at Low-A West Michigan....What did Sanchez do? For one, he started the 2006 Futures Game for the World Team and easily handled the three batters he faced....He went 5-3 in Erie with a 1.76 ERA, a walks+hits of just over 1, about 10.9 strikeouts per nine innings and a 3.2:1 walks-to-strikeouts ratio. Oh, and he allowed just two home runs in 71 innings. Wow!...In Toledo, he didn't quite duplicate that success, but he continued showing good numbers: a 3.86 ERA, a 2:1 K:BB rate, 7.5 K/9, and 2 home runs allowed in 51 innings....What's of interest is whether his dropoff came from facing more experienced batters, or if some of it came from tenderness in his elbow that eventually shut him down for the rest of the season beginning in late July. That is the only fear, of course, for the 23-year-old. Sanchez will likely be a name Tigers GM Dave Dombrowski hears often when listening to trade talks this offseason."

Humberto Sanchez is Dominican and went to HS in the Bronx, NY. He's 6'6" 230 and 23 years old. He could be #5 next year out of Spring Training.

2006-11-10 12:58:14
4.   Count Zero
Actually, looks like Sanchez gave up a boatload of HRs in AA in 2005. He was pretty impressive in limited work last year -- 10.80 K/9 in AA and 7.54 K/9 in AAA. Only 4 HRs in 123 IP combined AA & AAA last year. That's actually very low. The BB/9 are improving since his early years at Oneonta.

Claggett appears to have done the following in A last year: 7-2 0.91 8.80 K/9 WHIP 0.93. He was called straight up to AAA last August apparently.

Whelan seems less impressive but posted 11.50 K/9 in 54 IP last year in high A.

I think we all said we wanted pitching prospects -- that would be two I think. One is 23, the other two 22. :-)

2006-11-10 12:59:49
5.   RIYank
Yankee Fan in Boston gave us these links in the previous thread:

Sanchez has curbed his HR problem. He's a serious prospect.

Interesting -- my reaction was, "Great, instead of letting Sheffield walk we got pitching prospects from the Detroit "Pitching Prospects R Us" Tigers!" Apparently others are thinking, "What, we're giving away an all-star outfielder for no-name minor leaguers??"

2006-11-10 12:59:57
6.   jakewoods
sanchez is a power arm and a top prospect. not bad haul for a 38 yr old coming off an injury

sheff will mash for det

2006-11-10 13:02:34
7.   tommyl
3 Yeah, the original site I went to had incorrect stats. He was lights out at AA last year and decent at AAA. His WHIP is somewhat worrisome and he seems to give up a lot of walks. BB9 rates in the high 3 low 4 range in the past.

Do we have any more info? Is he just a guy who throws really hard and is good in the minors or does he have decent command and a few more pitches?

2006-11-10 13:04:57
8.   Jeteupthemiddle
At different points this year, Sanchez was ranked the 11th best pitching prospect in baseball. It was said if he starts off 2007 healthy (and all indications are that he will, as there was no structural damage) that he would join the Tigers rotation mid season.

This looks like an excellent trade for the Yankees.

2006-11-10 13:05:07
9.   mehmattski
5 I'm with you... it takes some research on any minor leaguer before making any kind of opinion on a trade (that hasn't officially been confirmed yet). In some sense, all minor leaguers are no-names to fans of other organizations. Especially coming off a season when tons of "no name" rookie pitchers made their marks on baseball (Verlander, Papelbon, Liriano, the quartet in Florida, etc)

It is absolutely refreshing to see the Yankees trading away an aging veteran for prospects, rather than the other way around. The light at the end of the tunnel may not be a fast approaching train, after all...

2006-11-10 13:05:19
10.   Cliff Corcoran
I've added a quick take on each of the three new pitchers in the post above (taken from my comments in the previous thread).
2006-11-10 13:06:42
11.   Yankee Fan In Boston
9 it happened. we've got them, they've got sheff.
2006-11-10 13:09:21
12.   tommyl
10 Excellent, thanks Cliff.
2006-11-10 13:09:57
13.   wsporter
Instead of letting Sheff walk Ca$hman reaps this haul for a cost of exactly ZERO in terms of anything the Yankees intended to use next year or dollars. "To these aged eyes boy that's what wining looks like"

Was Sheff going to be an A or a B FA? Probably so. The math still looks good to me however.

2006-11-10 13:12:02
14.   Shaun P
Power bullpen arms and a power arm that could be starting next year; all young, and cheap - brilliant job by Ca$hmoney. I am very happy.

And Sheff is going to a pitcher's park and the most competitive division in MLB. Detroit could be the third or fourth best team in the Central next year.

Pure genius.

2006-11-10 13:13:34
15.   Yankee Fan In Boston
8 "there was no structural damage"
music to my ears. my concern has melted away, only to be replaced once again by an admiration for a baseball genius. thank you once more, mr. ca$hman.
2006-11-10 13:14:38
16.   Shaun P
BTW, someone in the other thread mentioned they wanted the Yanks to keep Sheff and use him at 1B. I think it was worth considering, except that Sheff made it clear he did NOT want to play 1B.

The Yanks pitching depth grows and grows. The more I think about it, the more I love this deal. Good young pitching is the most valuable commodity in MLB - everyone wants some! - and the Yanks are wise to get as much of it as they can.

2006-11-10 13:15:06
17.   RIYank
9 That's it, it's 'refreshing', I agree. That's what's making me feel good about the deal.
Let's stock up cheap young pitchers and a couple of them will turn out to be winners. Then Ca$hman will feel like he's got lots of spending money when a power hitter free agent is loose at a position we need. Sure, we'll toss a few losers off the side of the boat along the way, but so what? It's a heck of a lot better than having Kevin Brown on the staff and the payroll.
2006-11-10 13:16:20
18.   pistolpete
Good work, Cash. Build for that next dynasty.
2006-11-10 13:17:41
19.   Sliced Bread
16 I thought they should have retained Sheff's bat and made him the 1st baseman next season. I think by the end of Spring Training he would be a better 1B than Giambi.
Cashman and Torre could have smoothed things over with Sheff, made him see that was the only way to stay with the team.
Obviously, this was not Cashman's plan.
I think he parted with Sheff too quickly.
I would have held out for proven Major League talent.
Whatever. What's done is done.
I hope at least one of these pitchers pans out.
2006-11-10 13:18:19
20.   jonnystrongleg
Lots of good news about the Sheffield deal:
1) They've added pitching depth
2) They've added youth
3) They've added zero payroll
4) They're probably mostly done with his negative comments (sure to be a few parting shots)

But some bad news too, especially since the Red Sox most likely added the best pitcher available on the same day:
1) The Yanks get no immediate help, the Red Sox added a top guy. (ie knowing the Sox got Matsuzaka, would it have been better to hold out for 2007 help? The Yanks rotation is way behind Boston's at this point)
2) The Yanks failed to trade him out of the League, and they traded him to a potential playoff team

2006-11-10 13:18:37
21.   choirboyzgirl
We have Sheff? ummm not sure how I feel about that (the team for the most part seems fairly low key but with Sheff and Rogers... it will make for an interesting summer). On the other hand Rasheed was able to calm down a bit when he came to Detroit (Pistons) maybe Sheff will too, especially since its being reported they (the tigers) extended his contract 2 extra years (wonder if it has a no trade clause LOL).
2006-11-10 13:19:37
22.   RIYank
16 And if Ca$hman is serious (as he appears to be) about getting a full time first baseman, well, Nomar is a free agent. More slugging, much better defense, cheaper.
2006-11-10 13:21:49
23.   Cliff Corcoran
21 Sheff is awesome as long as he has two or more years left on his contract. You'll love him until 2009. That is, if his wrist has healed completely. Otherwise, you just got an old expensive crybaby with declining skills (actually, both things are true).
2006-11-10 13:25:06
24.   Cliff Corcoran
22 Almost a sure bet to get hurt.
2006-11-10 13:25:46
25.   LI yankee
20 The more time that passes without another source on the Red Sox getting Matsuzaka rumor, the less I believe it.
2006-11-10 13:27:46
26.   tommyl
24 So is Sheff at this point though. Who else is available in the 1B market?
2006-11-10 13:29:14
27.   joejoejoe
Congratulations Detroit!

You just got Juan Gonzalez 2.0 for your top pitching prospect and two young arms.

2006-11-10 13:29:17
28.   Yankee Fan In Boston
25 i was just thinking the same exact thing.
2006-11-10 13:30:48
29.   seamus
i love this deal! With patience, I think everyone else will too!
2006-11-10 13:32:39
30.   vockins
22 Steven Goldman wrote about some Mark Texiera concept (that I can't seem to find) that sounded great.

I know I am in the minority, but I'll miss Sheff. He's my kind of asshole. That double off of Schilling when he was closing at Fenway in 2005 - followed by the ARod bomb - was so sweet.

I'd rather see the new guys, though.

2006-11-10 13:33:32
31.   kylepetterson
29 That's one thing this team has lacked in past years.
2006-11-10 13:33:36
32.   jakewoods
We get 3 power arms for a 38 yr old who wouldnt play.

Not bad.

Sanchez, Hughes, Clippard, Kennedy, Chamberlain, Betances, etc.

If 2 of them pan out. Wow.

2006-11-10 13:35:56
33.   Yankee Fan In Boston
30 "He's my kind of asshole."
beautiful. when you put it like that it is hard not to love him all over again. absolutely beautiful.
2006-11-10 13:35:59
34.   jonnystrongleg
25 & 28 I hope you are right! That would save the weekend, which now looks very gloomy. But it just makes too much sense for me not to believe it.

1) The Red Sox would love to spend more money but have been hamstrung by agreeing w/ Bud to stay at the salary limit. They have been essentially saving a lot of money involuntarily every year. Here, they can "overspend" freely and it doesn't count against the salary structure.
2) The Red Sox now have a marquee Japanese player and can reap the economic benefits of such. They can sell ad space in Fenway and the rights to broadcast their games in Japan. They will easily recoup the posting fee.

The only hope I can see is Boras and Matsuzaka refusing to sign so they can get to the Yankees via free agency next year. I don't think their is shot in hell they take that risk when Boston is such an attractive alternative.

2006-11-10 13:39:43
35.   rbj
I probably saw Sanchez pitch, but I don't remember it; it's more a reflection of me than his pitching skills.

If the Matsuzaka rumor is true, he'll be very expensive for the Red Sox, possibly hitting near $100 million when it's all added up.

2006-11-10 13:39:51
36.   Yankee Fan In Boston
34 they've botched a few deals in he recent past. theo isn't bulletproof, and he certainly is no ca$hman...

...give them a chance to mess this one up.

2006-11-10 13:40:54
37.   Emy
Wow! I love this deal. I just watched the recording of the 2006 Future's Game the other day and was VERY impressed by Sanchez.

Great job, Cash!

2006-11-10 13:43:04
38.   Shaun P
28 Can't but help agree.

20 Wonder how Sheff will hit in his spacious new home ballpark? Its only 34 ABs, but so far he's only hit .235/.257/.382 at Comerica.

22 The 1B pickings are very slim from what I can see. I hope Ca$hmoney has something good up his sleeve.

2006-11-10 13:45:34
39.   Yankee Fan In Boston
38 the matsui shift to 1B keeps coming up here, and the more the other options are discussed, the more plausible it is beginning to sound. he'd bust his rear end to try to help his team. (unlike this guy on the tigers...)
2006-11-10 13:46:25
40.   SF Yanks
Jeter and Cano won the Silver Slugger awards but not AROD. Crede took that one and I have no idea how.
2006-11-10 13:48:48
41.   Eirias
I am stealing this directly from "J" on RLYW, who took it from somewhere else, eventually attributed to Yahoo Taiwan.

The bidding for Daisuke "The Monster" Matsuzaka was closed at 6am Taipei local time. Through the Puro Yakyu League in Japan, MLB has informed the Seibu Lions the highest bid without identifying the highest bidder. According to an anonymous source from AP, Yankees has been confirmed to have obtained the right to negotiate. The first step to sign the pitcher was a success.

Teams including the Yankees, Mets, Red Sox, Cubs, and Rangers finished their biddings earlier this morning. MLB prohibited the bidding teams from discussing the details of the monetary amount and the results of the bids. It is generally believed, however, Seibu shall receive US$25M to 30M in fees. If the number is accepted, the results including the identity of the winning bidder and amount will be announced tonight at the earliest.

According to AP, Yankees won the negotiating rights with the highest bid. If it is true, Matsuzaka will become a new teammate of Chien-ming Wang and compete for the title of "Ace" on the Yankees' rotation.

Former manager of the NY Mets and current Chiba Lotte Marine manager Bobby Valentine claimed, "Matsuzaka is special. Not only his velocity ranges from 90 to 95 MPG, his control of the ball is outstanding. It doesn't matter what the ball count is, he can use any of his three strike pitches to get ahead."

Seibu will have four business days (until next Tuesday) to decide whether they will accept the bid. As soon as the bid is accepted, Matsuzaka's agent, Mr. Boras will start negotiating a contract with Yankees. The contract must be signed within a month and if agreement cannot be reached before the deadline, Matsuzaka must return to Seibu until obtaining his free agent status next year.

2006-11-10 13:49:18
42.   vockins
33 Reggie Jackson - same deal. I must have declared that somewhere on this forum before...

Anyway, the third base coach backing up to opponent's dugout, the bat wag, the stumbling after the gigantic swing-and-misses, the moon shots that are 3 to 10 feet foul, the quotes in the Post - I'm going to miss it. Sheff was cool.

Again, I'd rather see the new dudes now.

2006-11-10 13:49:49
43.   Eirias
I in no way, shape or form can vouch for the validity of that statement. I can hope though.
2006-11-10 13:50:30
44.   jakewoods
I find it hard to believe that the Sox who didnt sign Damon and Pedro will shell out 100 mill for a Japanese pitcher.
2006-11-10 13:52:52
45.   LI yankee
41 So apparently now the Rangers, Red Sox, and Yankees all won the rights to negotiate.

Should be fun.

2006-11-10 13:53:51
46.   Yankee Fan In Boston
44 yup.

if ca$hman can do this for a reasonable sum, he is a god.

2006-11-10 13:53:54
47.   Jim Dean
Did anyone consider that Cash is stockpiling pitching prospects to trade for a Texeira or a catching prospect? Sure it's good to have a lot of pitching, but if they re-sign Moose and Wright, there's alot of redundancy, even if there are a lot of injuries. Indeed, they'd have 10 legitimate starters:


And that's without a DM or Zito signing.

2006-11-10 13:54:30
48.   SF Yanks
ESPN News was saying how baseball was sending some sort of message by not voting for AROD for the Silver Slugger award. AROD was ranked #1 in a bunch of categories while Crede was ranked #3 or #4 in those same categories at 3B.

Dammit AROD, you know its all your fault.

2006-11-10 13:54:36
49.   Alex Belth
"He's my kind of asshole."

Here, here. He'll look great in the Tigers' home uniform. He played for Leyland in Florida so I'm sure he'll get along fine there. I really enjoyed watching Sheff as a Yankee. His riffing wasn't exactly appealing but never bothered me too tough.

He's the kind of guy who we'll remember in 20 years. "Remember those foul balls he used to mash?"

2006-11-10 13:54:45
50.   ack
I REALLY hope Mr. Olney is wrong about Matsuzaka.
I love to see the Yankees getting younger, but they should be the topdogs FOREVER when the convesation is about money. To think they bid less than any other team is a SHOCK.
Besides, it would be a big mistake by Cashman, because there is no way to overspend with the gyroball guy.
I don't think Epstein will blow this one. I just hope the rumor is not true.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-11-10 13:57:12
51.   Jim Dean
BTW: Let today officially fire up the hotstove!
2006-11-10 13:57:18
52.   Cliff Corcoran
47 I wouldn't go too far with that, Jim. Hughes may be major league ready, but he's still never thrown a pitch above AA. Same for Clippard, who seems less major league ready. Sanchez has just nine AAA starts. Rasner and Karstens should get their shot, but they're very much unproven, and I'm still skeptical about Karstens. Johnson just had back surgery. Wright's injury history cannot be discounted. Moose isn't under contract yet. Oh, and you included Pavano on your list for some reason.
2006-11-10 13:57:45
53.   jonnystrongleg
44 & 46 They wouldn't shell out the dough for old players when it counted against the cap. This is 100% different. Maybe they still won't pony up, but I am convinced this is legit (hoping to be dead wrong).
2006-11-10 13:58:45
54.   Cliff Corcoran
50 Matsuzaka is only 26, so he makes them younger.
2006-11-10 13:58:52
55.   rbj
47 Who is this "Pavano" of which you speak? Where did he pitch last year, I don't remember seeing and BBTN highlights of him; was he in AAA?
2006-11-10 14:01:08
56.   Eirias
Pavano shouldn't even be considered, given the fact that he will almost assuredly shoot himself in the foot with his concealed handgun.
2006-11-10 14:02:14
57.   ny2
Jeter And Cano Win Silver Slugger Awards
2006-11-10 14:03:27
58.   wsporter
55 Yes AAA, that would be the Automobile Association of America; with a hot blond of course. It worked out exactly not so very well as I recall.
2006-11-10 14:03:45
59.   Eirias
Speaking of Pavano, I love the quote from Cashman talking about him: "I'm not going to say I can count on him. Maybe I've jinxed myself the last two years. ... I have no intention of selling him off short just because of the bad taste in our mouth over the first two years." (LoHud)
2006-11-10 14:05:07
60.   Jim Dean
52 Nice but how about: "...ten legitimate starters [if everything breaks the way it should and we're in June]"?

Even worst case: Unit, Pavano, and Wright are hurt for extended periods, at least Karstens, Rasners, and Hughes are ready to throw some innings.

That at least leaves Sanchez and Clippard as trade chips.

Again, and that assumes neither Zito or DM are signed, which I think is unlikely. If either are signed then you add Rasner or Karstens to that trade pile. Only one of: Clippard, Sanchez, Rasner, or Karstens is needed to front a package. With two they could land Texeira.

2006-11-10 14:07:34
61.   Eirias
I have a question about Sanchez... if he is so good, why was he drafted in the 32nd round in the 2001 draft? I assume he was injured, but what happened?
2006-11-10 14:12:41
62.   wsporter
61 He was a draft and follow who received a HUGE bonus from the Tigs.

Glad that assinine D & F stuff will be gone.

2006-11-10 14:14:40
63.   rsmith51
There is no reasonable argument that Joe Crede was a better hitter this year than ARod. The only stat where he beat out ARod was doubles. I didn't check close and late and RISP, but that is just silly.
2006-11-10 14:17:12
64.   randym77
I like the trade. I like Sheff, but we have no room for him any more. Trading Sheff for pitching prospects is a smart move.

In other news...looks like Bubba Crosby is going to be back in Ohio. A friend of mine in Cincinnati reports that he's signed a Major League contract with the Reds.

2006-11-10 14:20:53
65.   rsmith51
I like getting rid of Sheff, because Torre was more concerned with putting Sheff in a certain place in the lineup than anyone else.
2006-11-10 14:22:07
66.   Schteeve
To all you people who keep calling Matsuzaka a "top guy" he isn't. He's a whole lot of hype until he gets through a season with a league avg ERA or better.

I mean, you'd think this guy had already won an armful of Cy Youngs, the way people talk about him.

2006-11-10 14:23:08
67.   Eirias
64 Crap, now we are SCREWED. We haven't seen the last of the Crosby Crusher, Bubba Bomber.
2006-11-10 14:23:46
68.   Schteeve
also, the minute we got Abreu, and Abreu produced, I knew Sheff was gone. This can't really be surprising to anyone. And the idea that Sheff was a good option at 1B was silly from the start. We're gonna teach a guy who is coming off a wrist injury, hasn't had any ML reps period in MONTHS, how to play a new position in 2 weeks and have him start there in the post season??

I never understood that.

2006-11-10 14:27:17
69.   wsporter
66 Does that mean he has no value? When does a pitching prospect have value?

I think people are projecting him as a "Top Prospect" and predicting that he will become a "Top Guy" in time. I think there is a difference?

2006-11-10 14:30:30
70.   kylepetterson
There seems to be little rational thought on Door-Mat in the media (is this something new). Either he's going to be the best pitcher every to throw a baseball in the Majors or he's going to worse than A-Rod is at everything.
2006-11-10 14:36:58
71.   alsep73
Just as a dash of cold water, my initial reaction to this trade was the same I had when we traded Lowell to the Marlins for three pitching prospects, notably Ed Yarnall. And that wound up not doing so well for us.

Again, trading a spare part (in that we had just signed Brosius to an extension) for three live arms. Not exactly one-to-one, in that Lowell was young and cheap and Sheff is old and expensive, but how would these three compare in reputation and make-up compared to what we got from Florida way back when?

2006-11-10 14:37:20
72.   randym77
67 LOL! Good thing he's going to the NL, where we won't have to face him very often. ;-)

On the Matsuzaka front...I can't believe anyone would bid $45 million, let alone Boston. Yikes!

2006-11-10 14:39:15
73.   Eirias
I like the trade, but TINSTAPP?
2006-11-10 14:51:59
74.   C2Coke
I knew my almost-unreasonably high expectation towards Ca$hman would be justified. Can't wait to see more stunts he's about to pull this off-season.

47 It's almost too funny. After all the posts that followed, only Wang is reliable on your list...

{72] Another side of story that I've heard, which made more sense to me is that the Asian media believe the bids are actually way lower than expected, and they are deciding whether they should keep Matsuzaka for another year or not.

2006-11-10 14:52:04
75.   wsporter
71 Contemplating the Lowell deal was annoying because Scotty B was on his way down and out. This situation was annoying only because of Sheff and his loquacious proclivities. They had no place for Sheff here that Sheff wanted to fill; so they really had no use for Sheff. I think you answered the question though: the scenarios really aren't comparable.
2006-11-10 15:02:15
76.   Schteeve
69 I'm not saying he has no value and I'm not saying he isn't a top prospect. But there is a lot of real estate between "top prospect" and "staff ace" or even "league average starter." And $45 million just to have a drink with the guy seems awfully pricey to me.
2006-11-10 15:21:33
77.   Simone
I have never thought the Yankees would acquire a player of substantial value for Sheffield. All the talk of a starter for Sheffield seemed like a pipe dream. We'll see what happens with these 3 prospects. Hopefully, one of them actually is half way decent in AAA, forget about the major league so they can be trade bait one day.

I think Matsuzaka is going to be a solid starter. A no. 2 or no. 3 at least. If Beckett ever gets his act together, the Red Sox will have an excellent starting rotation.

Congrats to Jeter and Cano!

2006-11-10 15:32:57
78.   Schteeve
I think I remember some folks saying that signing Sheff to trade him would be a big mistake and we'd end up stuck with a big malcontent blah blah blah.

Instead we got two legit prospects who are very nearly ML ready, and the tune has changed to...."we'll see if these losers are any good, but I highly doubt it."

Gimme a break.

2006-11-10 15:34:28
79.   wsporter
77 I believe you said picking up Sheffield's option to trade him would be a mistake. Do you think it was a mistake now? If so, why?
2006-11-10 15:39:02
80.   wsporter
78 & 79 Um ... we didn't go in on that together.
2006-11-10 15:45:33
81.   Schteeve
80Which makes it more poignant I think. ;)
2006-11-10 15:51:16
82.   Simone
79 Actually, I still think it was mistake and at the time I laid out my reasons quite clearly. I believe that the Yankees could have used the $13 million in a more productive way. They have kicked it in to increase their bid on Matsuzaka or even holding onto that money to do a mid-season trade to improve the team as needed. IMO, these prospects are not of enough value for that money.

78 In the event that your comment was directed at me, I never said that the Yankees would be stuck with Sheffield. I said that I did not believe that the Yankees would acquire quality player that would making it worth picking up Sheffield's option and the trouble that he would make wasn't worth it anyway.

Also, because it cannot be said enough good riddance to Sheffield.

2006-11-10 15:58:15
83.   LI yankee
This is why ESPN should not be trusted. From one of their poll questions:

10) How far will the Tigers advance next season after winning the World Series?

2006-11-10 16:01:47
84.   LI yankee
Also Scott Boras has gone on XM radio and denied the Red Sox rumors.
2006-11-10 16:03:41
85.   wsporter
82 Simone, the Yankees didn't pay Sheff $13 million. They didn't pay him a dime. The Tigers will pay the $4.5 million due next season and the differed remainder over time.

They got those prospects for a cost of Zero dollars and an aging slugger who didn't want to fill any of the roles that the Yankees may have envisioned for him. So what was the reason?

2006-11-10 16:10:29
86.   monkeypants
85 Ah, Ok--I was just going to ask that. If the Tigers are paying the whole salary, this was really about as good as you could do, really. What a steal, considering Sheff was going to be unhappy, though I suspect he would still have been productive. But for the last two years this team has had too many immobile and/or aging OF/1B/DH types. Slowly but surely Cashman is making this team a little younger despite being trapped by so many longterm contracts.
2006-11-10 16:12:05
87.   alasky

As wsporter said, why was picking up the option a mistake? If we hadn't picked it up, we wouldn't even get draft pick compensation. By picking it up, we got a potential (I know, I know..TINSAAPP) frontline starter, and two live bullpen arms. What exactly was a mistake about it?...we won't paying Sheff at all in 2007.

2006-11-10 16:17:42
88.   JeremyM
Bubba signed a major league deal? The same guy who was passed on by 29 other teams after being waived last year? Baseball can be so weird, then again, the very same Reds did take Tony Womack off our hands last season, took his entire salary, and then cut him a month into the season.
2006-11-10 16:52:35
89.   OldYanksFan
A very handy article.
J. Passan/Yahoo runs down 101 FAs.

If we can't get a quality C to groom, I say get Piazza for one year, until something real comes up.

2006-11-10 17:10:35
90.   randym77
88 I'm kind of surprised he got a Major League deal, especially this early. He's the first player the Reds signed in the postseason; apparently, they've had their eye on him for awhile.

If he makes the 25-man roster, he should get some decent playing time, what with those NL substitutions.

2006-11-10 17:39:58
91.   randym77
The Mainichi Daily News is reporting that the Matsuzaka announcement will be made on Monday. Apparently, there's a party Monday, to celebrate the WBC victory. Matsuzaka will be there, and the speculation is they want to make the announcement then.

Which means we'll find out sometime Sunday?

And I must say, I'm having a lot of fun with Babelfish. The Mainichi Daily News is also reporting the rumor that Matsuzaka is going to the "Lead Socks." Babelfish also translated "designated hitter" as "assigned to attack." LOL!

Still not as good as the sign a friend of mine once saw in a Japanese public restroom: "To stop drip, turn cock to left."

2006-11-10 18:20:10
92.   Chyll Will
91 Lead Sox, Ded Sox, what's the diff?

And "Assigned to Attack" sounds like the title of a hardcore Will Smith album.

2006-11-10 18:26:45
93.   Chyll Will
91 Notice I actually didn't say anything about the last sentence. (involuntary spasm)Noooooooooo comment...
2006-11-10 18:54:08
94.   Shaun P
91 Thanks for the laugh, randym - I needed it.

Maybe Ca$hmoney is going to trade some of the pitching depth for a 1B or a C, but I have this nagging feeling that he's planning on holding on to these guys, unless something really knocks his socks off. I don't quite believe in TINSTAAPP, but it does seem that a typical ROI on good young pitchers is usually 1 out of every 4 making it. So the more the Yanks have, the better.

And while I'd love to see Teixeira in pinstripes, I don't understand why the Rangers would give him up, even to get pitching in return. He and Young are the cornerstones of their offense, and even if the Rangers get enough pitching to compete, they'll still need a high-powered offense to win because of their home ballpark.

2006-11-10 19:10:58
95.   OldYanksFan
Backup catcher: Robert Fick, 32, <1 mil
Career: AB/484 HR/15 RBI/69 AVG/.261 OBP/.329 SLG/.414
very decent numbers for under 1 million.
2006-11-10 20:21:22
96.   Stormer Sports
Let the Red Sox have Matsuzaka. Sure he's only 26, but as Cliff pointed out about Hughes, Matsuzaka hasn't thrown a pitch above AA, hell, above A. Unless you count the Japanese league, which I most assuredly do not. He isn't worth 100 Mil. plus based on a hope and a dream. His publicist and agent, with an assist from ESPN and the WBC, drove this guy's asking price far too high.

I for one would stick to grooming American players, Dominican, Central and South American and the like. There are quality arms out there who have been groomed to play in MLB for a fraction of the price. Guys who understand how to work from the fastball. The grass is always greener I suppose. If Matsuzaka can really throw five pitches, and throw them for strikes on demand, as Boras and ESPN contend, well, then 100 Mil. will be a steal for the best pitcher in the history of professional baseball, as he would be the first to do that. Hell, if he could throw just three for strikes on demand, he would be about as good as anyone ever to step foot on a major league mound. As Orel Hershiser famously said: If you can throw one pitch for a strike on demand you can compete, if you can throw two you can win, and if you can throw three you can dominate. Pundits and analysts love to tell us how many pitches a guy can throw. However, they rarely throw any of them for strikes when called on to do so. Trainers and coaches do all these kids a disservice by teaching them to throw several pitches in a mediocre manner, in lieu of teaching them how to throw one for strikes on demand and work from there. Sure Mike Mussina has five pitches, but he can't throw more than two of them for strikes on demand. Mo and Clemens barely have two pitches and have dominated their entire careers. Randy Johnson dominated his entire career with two pitches. The number of pitches is irrelevant, it's only command that matters. Matsuzaka is used to pitching one day in seven, hasn't faced major league pitching once every five days, and won't be worth what the Sox will pay him. Listen to me now and believe me later. Just my two cents.

2006-11-10 22:25:53
97.   joejoejoe
Tom Glavine just declined his $7.5M player option and will be a free agent. The wire story says he's considering Atlanta and the Mets but my guess is he could score a 2yr/$20M deal with any team he wants.
2006-11-10 23:35:13
98.   jakewoods
atlanta will not pay tommy g 24mil for 2 yrs.
2006-11-11 03:40:46
99.   randym77
Newsday is also reporting that the Red Sox put in the high Matsuzaka bid. Even Torre is talking as if the Yankees lost out. Though Cashman says Torre only knows what's been reported in the media.
2006-11-11 04:56:20
100.   Yu-Hsing Chen
anyone who think that Japan NPB isn't at least comparable to AAA is sadly deluded... the overall translation have been pretty good espicallly when taken league average into accounts. there have been farrr more good pitching prospects that busted after comming up to the bigs than Japanese pitchers busting after arriving.

Maybe the Red Sox did bid that high, it seems unrealistic though. we shall see how it goes. I did think that someone will blow it away with a crazy offer though.

As for the trade, i can't find one reasonable argument not to like it, Sanchez if he 's healthy is hardly worse than Hughes. (remember, Hughes wasn't healthy last year either, and Cole Hamels have had lots of health issues in the minors, let alone a guy like Hong Chih Kuo that essentially stay on the DL for 4+ years)

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-11-11 06:15:41
101.   OldYanksFan
96 While I think Stormer understated the quality of Japanese pitching (it is certainly comparable to AAA), in general I agree with him.

Even withOUT the posting fee, 5yrs/70 mil is a lot to pay for an unproven MLB pitcher. Add the posting fee, and it's nuts.

And it's not just about throwing strikes. Bonds, Thome, Giambi and many others LOVE strikes. Matsui was the #1 HR hitter in Japan. Here, he is not even in the top 10%. Matsizaka will have to get strikes past a quality of hitter he has never seen.

Yes, he MAY be a #1 or #2 starter. Is a #2 guy worth 5yrs/100mil ? RJ looked good when we got him, as have many others.

I think it's very IMPORTANT that we stop planning on a $200mil payroll. The Yankees have not been profitable over the last 3 years. If George's successor is cheap, and ONLY wants to spend $150mil, it will put us into a decade long slump.

We will have around 74 mil in Jetes, ARod, Matsui, Damon and Mo (5 guys) for 3+ years.
In 3 years, Cano and Wang start to get expensive. That's OK. Big money in Moose, Pavano, RJ and Giambi will soon be released. We need to start building a team with a payroll that we can support for the long term, and have money available for the Beltrans and other PROVEN impact players.

2006-11-11 07:53:10
102.   chris in c-bus
Most articles I've read give Cash props for making the trade because of the depth it provides for the farm system, however I cant help but wonder if maybe a trade for Dontrelle might be in the works?
2006-11-11 08:05:42
103.   randym77
102 The Marlins have more young pitchers than they know what to do with. If we're going to trade for Willis, I don't think pitching prospects will do it. They'd be more interested in A-Rod, I think, or some other slugger for the middle of their lineup.

I can't see the Marlins dealing Willis, though. He's their franchise player.

2006-11-11 08:15:42
104.   chris in c-bus
yeah, good point randy...the marlins definitely need bats more than arms...I think I'm just freaking out about the '07 staff. I am all for getting younger, but I'd rather have gotten a proven starter for Sheff but I'm not here to criticize cashman at all.

Assuming we lost the bid on Matsuzaka, I am just not sure what I think the best course of action is. Overpay for Zito? I dont think Schmidt would come here and I dont want him. Glavine? No. Rocket? No. Pettite? No. Just not sure where we go from here unless it's with the young guys we already have. I just dont see Moose, Pavano, and Randy staying healthy nor do I see us beating a good team in the playoffs with Wang, Moose, Randy/Pavano starting. We can make the playoffs with that group, but we cant win it all...

2006-11-11 08:35:02
105.   randym77
Yeah, I agree. Our starting rotation without Matsuzaka is not looking good. Randy Johnson is not an ace any more. Pavano...I'm not counting on seeing him pitch another game in pinstripes. Wright has his moments, but he's just too hard on the bullpen. I hope we give Rasner and Karstens a chance to be part of the team, but I don't see either of them becoming a #1 guy.

If the Angels land Matsuzaka, they may be willing to trade Santana. (A-Rod for Santana is supposedly the trade the Yanks hope to make.)

2006-11-11 08:45:41
106.   chris in c-bus
I would be cool with Santana as well although I get the impression ARod is here to stay now that we've traded our only reliable right handed power bat to the Tigers. Seems like a lot would have to happen for us to move ARod such as also obtaining his replacement which would have to have a big RH run producer that plays 3b. I could see Santana and Figgins for ARod, which gives us a guy who I guess can play 3b, but still no RH RBI production to replace what we would give up. Unless Cash has something up his sleeve, I think ARod is gonna be the lone RH power bat next year.
I guess the silver lining to boston getting matsuzaka would be their rotation being heavy on RH starters (beckett, mouthpiece, wake, and matsuzaka) agaisnt our lefty dominated lineup.
2006-11-11 09:24:39
107.   monkeypants
102 103 I'm sorry, would someone remind me again what is the fascination with Dontrelle Willis? I mean, to date he has been a very good pitcher, sort of. He was awesome in 2005, but 2004 (4.02 ERA) and 2006 (3.87 ERA and a career high 1.42 WHIP) were just not that good, especially considering he plays in a weaker hitting league and a great pitchers park. He IS only 25 next year, but he already has 800+ innings pitched.

Let's compare these two lines:

Player/Age/Seasons/Innings/Career ERA+/Career WHIP

Player B is Dontrelle; Player is...Jeff Waever. Advantage Dontrelle, but not by much at all, and his motion and innings are an injury waiting to happen.

The Yanks could definitely use him--if he were available--but let's not empty the bank.

2006-11-11 09:28:26
108.   chris in c-bus
107 - I'm not suggesting we empty the bank. I'm suggesting that without making a move for a starter, the 2007 yanks are dead in the water. I just threw dontrelle out as a possible option. If it comes down to it, I guess I'd prefer Zito the most since he has had success in the AL whereas Willis doesnt have that track record. I do think Willis has that moxie, or whatever you want to call it, that would allow him to thrive in NYC -sSomething Weaver certainly doesnt have.
2006-11-11 12:20:36
109.   jakewoods
willis is 25 yrs old, lefty, a hard thrower and a winner. who wouldnt want to have that?

it will take a centerfield prospect and a catching prospect to get him.
arizona or la are the options

2006-11-11 12:22:17
110.   jakewoods
the rotation is a disaster right now.

wang and moose. and moose is a 3-4 starter right now.

rj is a 5 starter.

cant count a lick on pavano.

really need another top arm. if they lose out on d-mat they may have to go hard at schmidt or zito. or take a flier on a lilly or meche.

2006-11-11 14:02:37
111.   randym77
107 To tell you the truth, Jeff Weaver is starting to look good to me. o_O
2006-11-11 18:58:55
112.   Yankee Fan In Boston
how about trying to sign glavine to a 1 year deal?
2006-11-11 22:00:35
113.   BklynBmr
FWIW, an interesting entry from P. Abraham:


"Hearing that the Yankees could be pursuing a deal that would send Jaret Wright to Baltimore (and pitching Leo Mazzone) for prospects.

More on this as it becomes available.

Maybe it's just me, but would they dump a starting pitcher knowing that Matsuzaka is out of reach?"


Man, I can't take the suspense of this ;-)

2006-11-11 22:11:24
114.   BklynBmr
Also, YES Network reports that Moose and Wright just filed for Free Agency.

What goes on between the club's option on a player and the FA filing deadline? This wasn't made clear in the news report...

2006-11-12 03:56:13
115.   Yu-Hsing Chen
Honestly, Matsuzaka's repetitory is good, he espically has 3 plus pitchs (fastball, split, change) and a plus plus pitch in his slider. that kind of pitcher will at least have some success, at worest he's Josh Beckett with better control, at best? hmmm hard to find a great comparason here.

As for D-train, i love his game, he has his risks though, and i don't see Florida trading him without a top of the line CF and a few more prospects on the way back.

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