Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
One of the Greats
2006-11-09 05:35
by Alex Belth

Rest in Peace, Johnny Sain.

2006-11-09 05:59:05
1.   Knuckles
Pray for rain.
2006-11-09 06:04:06
2.   Yankee Fan In Boston
could you imagine facing spahn and sain in a doubleheader?

getting out of bed on such a day would be depressing, knowing the challenges laid out before you.

there goes another great. it seems like baseball has been losing a lot of legendary players lately.

2006-11-09 06:07:38
3.   Sliced Bread
That's a great quote you linked to, Alex, and 9 complete games in 29 days? That is In-Sain. They sure don't make 'em like that anymore.

Picking up on the Sheffield conversation in the previous thread:

I was hoping for "He's A Yankee-Daisuke Dandy!" headlines this morning, but instead it's Sheff stewing on the backpages.

I'd prefer Sheff kept quiet at this point, but he has the right to speak his mind.
He is not entirely off-base for feeling squeezed out by the more expensive Abreu and Giambi, and frozen out by Cashman, who did not want him from the start.

Certainly, there will be times next season when the Yankees miss Sheff's slugging -- his self-righteous squawking, and endlessly indiscreet contract negotiations, eh, not-so-much.

I expect Cashman will get substantial talent in return for Sheffield, who, despite his tantrums, is still a valuable veteran slugger.

Out with the bad blood, in with the new blood.

2006-11-09 06:42:20
4.   Raf
Spahn & Sain by Gerald V. Hern

First we'll use Spahn
then we'll use Sain
Then an off day
followed by rain
Back will come Spahn
followed by Sain
And followed
we hope
by two days of rain.

2006-11-09 06:44:52
5.   jakewoods
can u blame him for stewing? he wants to be a yankee and now he wont be. he also knows he wont get yankee type money anywhere else.
2006-11-09 06:51:37
6.   C2Coke
For someone who would stay on the team, bursting out constantly about the team is just not the way to go. At this point, the Yankees may do anything just for the reason that they don't like Sheff anymore.
They have mutual respect for someone who keeps mum and quietly makes the deal, aka Moose.

Apparently, today is a good new for news, a event is taking place in Staten Island. Hopefully, news will be announced and we won't be left hanging.

2006-11-09 06:59:31
7.   Yankee Fan In Boston
6 an event? good news?
2006-11-09 07:20:40
8.   jakewoods
a staten island yank thing today

promo event

cash will be there

2006-11-09 07:26:58
9.   Yankee Fan In Boston
8 ah. thanks. hopefully ca$hman will have his cell phone to his ear, tossing around numbers in japanese...
2006-11-09 09:18:56
10.   Bluebleeder87
going back on Sheffield, i'm just glad he's out of a Dodger uni & is somebody elses problem.

Bluebleeder L.A.

2006-11-09 11:12:23
11.   jakewoods
i think u would have liked to have had him in RF this yr.

or marlon anderson??

2006-11-09 11:41:44
12.   The Mick 536
According to Retrosheet's stats, game 5 of the 52 WS won by the Dogers at the Stadium must have been a pip.

Yanks down 4-0, 2 from a HR by the Duke . Score 5 in the bottom of the 5th. Sain replaced Noren who had pitchhit for Blackwell. He pitched into the 11th.

"Dodger 11th: Erskine struck out; Cox singled; Reese singled to center (Cox to third); Snider doubled (Cox scored, Reese to third); Robinson was walked intentionally; Furillo grounded into a double play (third to catcher to first) [Reese out at home]...Dodgers 6, Yankees 5."

Who better to have coming up in our half than 3, 4, and 5! "Yankee 11th. Mantle grounded out (pitcher to first); Mize made an out to right; Berra called out on strikes....Dodgers 6, Yankees 5.

Sain took the loss going 6 in relief. Don't see that anymore. 70,536 in attendance. Dodgers went up 3-2 and smelled their first title as they returned to Ebbetts.

Game 6 saw two homers by Duke, one by Yogi, and The Mick's first of 18-it made the winning margin, tying the series and sending it into game 7. The Mick homered off Joe Black in the 6th with the game tied at 2-2 for the run that proved the series winner. Yanks, under Casey, used 3 relievers after Lopat was removed in the 4th for giving up a run. Reynolds(4), Raschi(7),and Kuzava(7) finished up. More like today, eh.

How about that!

2006-11-09 11:48:41
13.   Yankee Fan In Boston
12 wow. what a series. i wonder if the names of the guys on the more current yankees teams will spark such a nostalgic feeling for the next generation of fans.

i guess there's a good chance that rivera and jeter will. but that cast of characters is astounding.

2006-11-09 12:42:15
14.   Cliff Corcoran
Contemporary haters take note of 11, three Hall of Famers up, down by one in extras, and they go down 1-2-3, with the two "true Yankees" managing just a nubber to the pitcher and Yogi ending it by looking at strike three.

Happens to the best of 'em.

2006-11-09 12:42:25
15.   jakewoods
if they win a title, they certainly will

u think anyone would ever remember sojo, brosius, mendoza, stanton, nelson, chad curtis, etc
if they never won?

2006-11-09 14:24:25
16.   tommyl
14 Who's this Mantle bum? And Yogi? Completely unclutch. If we can get a bag of balls for them, lets do it.
2006-11-09 15:09:31
17.   jakewoods
who cares about their mvp awards and the fact that they are the top players in the game!

too bad the mich aint alive to share his horror stories with a rod. and tell him eventually things turn around. quick. not many guys are hated for very long in yankee land if they produce.

2006-11-09 15:58:55
18.   RIYank
Hey, David Pinto has just passed along a story apparently saying that Matsuzaka is going to the D-Backs (daiyamondobatsukusu). But it could just be a misunderstanding or mistranslation into Japanese of a US story saying that Arizona is "in the mix".

Here's the (tiny url for) the Google-translated story:

As Google puts it, "The question mark is attached to actualization characteristic of Matuzaka acquisition."

2006-11-09 16:33:46
19.   jakewoods
that article is about how surprising it is for the d backs to be involved.
2006-11-09 18:38:18
20.   Shaun P
14 50+ years ago, the Yanks need some help at first base and they are able to get Big Cat Mize. Too bad no one like him is available now . . .

OK, I just had an idea. Its crazy, and it wouldn't save the Yanks cash at all - in fact it would add a lot on to the payroll for a while - but how about trading Sheff for Todd Helton? Yes, he's owed $16.6 mil for '07-'10 and then '19 mil in '11 (when he turns 38). And he's another lefty. But he can hit pretty well, and IIRC, his glovework is highly rated. Thoughts?

And if Mark Donohue is reading this, I would love to get his input. Not that the Rockies really need another corner OF, but Sheff could be an absolute monster in Coors . . .

(And no, I don't think Helton is a Hall of Famer or comparable to Mize, but he is a very good hitter.)

2006-11-09 18:58:35
21.   Bama Yankee
20 I think Helton would be a great addition if we could get him. It's funny you mention him, I actually thought about him earlier today when I took a look at the NL 1B list (after you posted that idea of trading Sheff for a 1B and SP). Of course I dismissed him due to the fact that he is mid 30's instead of mid 20's like you wanted (not to mention that he is a former Tennessee Volunteer QB and that has alway been hard for me to overlook).
2006-11-09 18:58:46
22.   jakewoods
what do we need with todd helton?

we need pitching. and we need a right handed first basemen

maybe if colorado threw in 2 A level prospects but why would we want to help them cut payroll?

makes no sense. we dont need big bats. we need big arms

2006-11-09 19:23:46
23.   Shaun P
22 Yes, the Yanks need pitching. Or at least DM and another (preferably) young power bullpen arm. But the Yanks need a 1B too, badly.

21 Bama, I dismissed Helton at first too for all those reasons (well, except the Volunteer QB one; I don't think the Vols have ever done anything to Syracuse =). But the more I think about it, the more it grows on me. There are a lot of issues - primarily the Rockies don't need a corner OF, and the Yanks don't need to add another big contract - but its worth exploring.

2006-11-09 19:33:36
24.   jakewoods
first of all there are younger and cheaper alternatives to helton. who is a real good hitter but hes played everygame in coors field. not exactly a pitchers park. plus hes had major injury problems the past 2 yrs and has a very, very bloated contract

i dont think they;d touch him with a 10 foot pole.

i think they'd look at much cheaper alternatives like rich aurilia. some right hand hitting. someone they can just give a 2-3 yr deal for.

gain some flexibility. helton doesnt give u that at all. and if he breaks down? ur screwed. let the rockies deal with him

2006-11-09 19:46:36
25.   rsmith51
Rich Aurilia????

Let's give Matsui a 1b glove in there isn't a cheaper alternative.

2006-11-09 19:52:16
26.   jakewoods
how about nomar? right handed. showed a good glove with la. and we know he can hit.
2006-11-09 19:55:46
27.   jakewoods
are we really going to see rutgers in the national title game???
2006-11-09 20:00:44
28.   Shaun P
26 Nomar isn't a bad option; the right-handedness is especially attractive. But he's far more injury prone than Helton, and not as good a hitter.

I'm all for the Yanks going cheaper and younger, but the 1B pickings are slim on the free agent market, and slimmer in the minors. I went through all the AA and AAA '06 stats and didn't find much available to get excited about.

And BTW, Helton in his career has hit .294/.393/.507 away from Coors. He's not a mile high product at all.

25 I agree completely. Aurilia is 35, and played in the bandbox know as the Great American Ballpark this year. His numbers scream fluke (more than Pavano's did). The team that gives him a two or three year deal will regret it very soon.

2006-11-09 20:06:52
29.   Yu-Hsing Chen
28 Andy Phillips 05 AAA stats was pretty good.... heh.

Nomar would be nice if the deal is short, but anything over 2 year and it get icky...

and if ur going to simply get a glove man.. Phillips probably isn't far off of that.

I suppose a Wes Helm would be ok, but again, everyone out there is either old /injury prone or very Andy Phillips like.

2006-11-09 20:21:56
30.   jakewoods
im not saying heltons not a prime time talent. hes a great hitter. but hes also not cost effective and kills flexibility.

the yanks are trying to get away from the long deals to deadwood types ie no more giambi types.

someone like nomar gives them flexibility. a 3 yr deal. u can move that if u want.

helton is untradable. the rockies would give him up for sheff in 2 seconds if it gets them out from under his contract.

2006-11-09 21:03:33
31.   Yu-Hsing Chen
call me crazy here, but the Rockies might actually contend next year, they have a decent pitching staff now with the Humiditor. and with Helton/Holiday/Atikins and crew they actually have a shot at the NL west next year if the dice roll their ways a bit more.
2006-11-09 21:49:16
32.   jakewoods
they got some good hitting prospects in stewart and tulowitzki coming up too.

but they come down to what it always comes down. pitching. and the dodgers should be good next yr as well as the diamondbacks with all their young talent. if they can get a willis they could be good too.

2006-11-09 22:19:20
33.   Yu-Hsing Chen
32 i agree that the Dodgers are obviously the heavy favorits right now espically if they land a Zito too, but it's certainly not out of the realm of possibility that say.. Penny gets hurt, Kuo gets hurt , Billingsly still having adjustment problems etc.. Saito start to bomb while Broxton can't fill in the role etc... not to meantion their hitting next year isn't awe inspiring right now and has far more questions than the Rockies.

Tulo and Kaz Matsui (if his revival is real to some extend) would make a pretty decent pair up the middle. at least adequet enough compare to the jokes that was Barmes and Carroll.

They have a pretty solid staff in reality with Jennings Francisis Cook and Kim . none of them will blow u away, but all of them are pretty solid. to some extend. the real question is wether their bullpen holds up next year.

2006-11-10 01:14:33
34.   Calyankee
Amazing stat about Johnny Sain - as a hitter, Johnny had 20 strikeouts in 774 lifetime at bats. (.245 lifetime BA.)
2006-11-10 04:04:58
35.   randym77
MikePugh's blog is reporting that a story in the Dallas Star-Telegram thinks Texas may have won the Matsuzaka sweepstakes with a bid of $30 million. No confirmation, though.
2006-11-10 05:42:15
36.   jakewoods
That article says Texas is in the bidding and may win. All it says is they have a chance. Any team may win if they're actually in the bidding.
2006-11-10 06:08:20
37.   Knuckles
RU, Rah, Rah;
RU, Rah, Rah,
Whoo-Rah, Whoo-Rah;
Rutgers Rah

Up Stream Red Team
Red Team Up Stream
Rah, Rah, Rutgers Rah

2006-11-10 06:40:46
38.   jakewoods
now im shocked

rutgers has a fight song???

i didnt even know they had a football program til last yr!

Comment status: comments have been closed. Baseball Toaster is now out of business.