Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
Wrong is Wright
2006-11-03 05:55
by Alex Belth

Tyler Kepner writes about Mike Mussina and Jaret Wright today in the Times:

Mussina, who turns 38 next month, has known that the Yankees will not pick up his $17 million option. But he wants to stay and the team wants him back. Arn Tellem, Mussina's agent, said in an e-mail message that he has had positive talks with the Yankees, but he added that the sides had just started the process.

The Yankees would like to re-sign Mussina for two years, and they seem to understand it would take more than $10 million a year to sign him.

Wright would cost the Yanks $7 million next year but they can buy him out for $4 million.

Meanwhile, Mariano Rivera has some words of encouragement for Alex Rodriguez:

"They didn't give the guy a break. New York, the town," Rivera said of Alex Rodriguez. "He's done a good job. If you ask me who has hit in the playoffs, I am going to say two or three guys. Alex is one guy, he is not the team. You can't win with that on one guy. A team is 25 guys."

..."It's not up to me whether he is here or not or whether the Yankees want him here or not," Rivera said. "He wanted to be a part of the team, part of a winning team. He's done everything. He works so hard, it's amazing.

"It's not easy being himself sometimes," Rivera said. "It's tough on him."
(Kristie Ackert, Daily News)

Hey, bro. It's not easy being green. Such is life.

Comments (107)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-11-03 06:37:18
1.   Yankee Fan In Boston
does money spent to buy-out a player's contract (such as the $4M to wright) count towards the luxury tax?

just curious.

2006-11-03 06:51:13
2.   bp1
Moose had a 3.5x ERA last year. He deserves to get a couple more years, and he has earned the right to a contract with a larger annual salary than Pavano. Look forward to more crossword puzzle cameos in the Yankees future.

No direspect to Mo, but I really don't want to hear how hard it is for A-Rod to be A-Rod.

2006-11-03 06:54:44
3.   Yankee Fan In Boston
2 hey, it's tough to be so good looking and to be so smart.
(i'd imagine.)
2006-11-03 07:40:54
4.   Chyll Will
[2-3] C'mon, guys, it's Mo. How are you gonna argue with Mo? He's the first teammate to stick his neck out for A-Rod and give an inkling that there is respect beyond "well, he's here, so whatever..." I didn't take it as Mo commenting on A-Rod's personality, I took it as a comment on his commercialization; the good, the bad and the ugly.
2006-11-03 07:45:36
5.   Zack
I take it as just one more reason why #42 is the greatest and my fav. It took me a long time, but at some point I realized that when i look back on this period of Yankees (really the post-Donnie era) it will be Mo who I remember most fondly and miss the most...Always gracious, always supportive, always ready to play. And for someone who is by all accounts one of the most religious players, he's never out there dropping G-Bombs or anything...
2006-11-03 07:50:31
6.   bobtaco
Captain Mo?
2006-11-03 07:55:37
7.   Simone
Now that Mo has spoken out on Alex's behalf will he magically start getting better at whatever it is that people are claiming that he isn't doing? Or does only Derek have that mystical cure?

The Yankees should re-sign Moose, but I didn't think it would take more than $12 million. The market is tight for pitching.

2006-11-03 07:58:19
8.   Chyll Will
6 In a sense he is; it seems he's too modest to accept or acknowledge a mantle like that. But I would think he is the Obi-Wan behind Jeter's Luke Skywalker.

Heh. Obi-Wan Rivera. It fits >;) (And no Juan Rivera cracks, even if he makes it back to the Bronx.)

2006-11-03 08:01:04
9.   DCMike
This hasn't really been discussed but I thought I would bring it up. The Yankees should absolutely keep Wright. Compare Wright's numbers to Jeff Suppan's:

SPLIT 32G 190.0IP 207H 100R 21HR 69BB 104SO 12W 7L 0Sv 96.3P/GS 1.45WHIP .277BAA 4.12ERA

SPLIT 30G 140.1IP 157H 76R 10HR 57BB 84SO 11W 7L 0Sv 84.3P/GS 1.52WHIP .283BAA 4.49ERA

They are very similar pitchers and yet Suppan is going to get $10/year for FOUR years! The first $4 million of Wright's $7 million optio are already gone, they are sunk costs. So do you want to pay Wright $3 million for ONE year or Suppan $10 million per year for FOUR years? That is a no brainier!

Also, in a free agent market like this one - where guys like Suppan are expected to make $10 million per year for four years, you could trade Wright for something as Spring Training approaches.

Do I WANT to keep Wright? No, the guy drives me bananas but based on what else is out there and all the stories about MLB owners looking to spend like drunken sailors in a Bangkok house of ill repute... seems like an easy call to me.

2006-11-03 08:01:58
10.   Yankee Fan In Boston
4 i was merely seeing to it that an opportunity to slight mr. rodriguez wasn't overlooked. i was under the impression that it was a yankee fan's duty to do so.

but yes, props to mr. rivera for being the first to stick up for him. now that november has rolled around, it seems the time is finally right.

no disrespect to mo, but the entire team had an entire season to step up. anything now seems to be a bit of an empty gesture. the time to do this was july or august.

this is why i don't hold the captain's latest remarks (the "he's here so we support him" line) against him. he's consistent.

i don't know... mariano rivera is a mythological creature deserving of as much respect as anyone in the game, but i think patting him on the back for this is a bit much.

2006-11-03 08:04:40
11.   Chyll Will
7 The posting success/failure on Matsuzaka would likely have something to do with their offer to Moose. I'm thinking that if they do win the bidding and sign him, Moose is offered $10-12 million a year at the most, but for perhaps three years, or two + player or mutual option maybe?
2006-11-03 08:10:36
12.   Simone
I just got Alex's comment, "It's not easy being green." Nice.
2006-11-03 08:10:44
13.   bp1
7 Yes - very tight pitching market. I think the Yankees are a year or two away from having an excellent, and YOUNG, starting rotation. Not sure what to do about this year, though. Gonna be interesting to watch what happens over the winter. I wonder if guys like Rasner will have a chance at making the team this Spring, or if they'll fill the "in case of emergency" role in Scranton.

4 I have no beef w/ Mo. He's the best - and is as close to a true role model as any professional athlete can be. I will (hopefully) be there when he's reading his HOF acceptance speech, and I can imagine I'll be a bit choked up. I appreciate his defense of A-Rod, I just cringed a bit at this part '"It's not easy being himself sometimes," Rivera said. "It's tough on him."'. But - at least he said something real.

I guess I'm just sick of the A-Rod drama, and now a bit sorry I've contributed to it a bit here this morning. My bad.

2006-11-03 08:15:20
14.   bp1
9 I wonder if the Yankees can pull a Sheff w/ Wright - pick up his option and package him in a deal. Wright was killer on the bullpen last year. Yeah - he's an arm - but the Yankees might be better off giving a young arm like Rasner a chance this season.

Then again, $7MM for a year of "the devil you know" might not be such a bad deal.

Could go either way on that one.

2006-11-03 08:15:58
15.   OldYanksFan
Taking steroids? beating your wife? Doing hard drugs? Just an asshole (K. Rogers)?

Well... you get a day or 2 of grief from the media, and then you are forgotten.

What about if you are one of the greatest players in history, work very hard, give up your position for your team, humble yourself to Derek, and average .290/.390/.540/40/120
for your team?

If you are ARod, you are literally put under a microscope and hounded by the media, like no one in history before.

If there was NO media blitz on ARod... if he were judged solely by his performance and his perceived character, how many of you would EVER consider trading this guy?

If we drive ARod out of NY and he is traded, next to the Babe, it will be known as the worst trade in the history of baseball. The Yankees will never live it down, and it will be rubbed in our noses even when we lose the ALDS in 2049.

And J. Wright costs us 3mil next year. Who can we get for 3mil who will put up similar numbers?

2006-11-03 08:20:11
16.   DCMike
15 - No one.
2006-11-03 08:20:37
17.   jakewoods
why wouldnt they pick up wrights option? its a difference of 3 mill which is nothing to them especially when you consider he is a live arm who won 12 games last yr. that has value. especially in the NL.

you can get back something for him instead of losing him for nothing. even if you pay a team 3 mill of his 7 it beats cutting him loose.

2006-11-03 08:21:43
18.   Chyll Will
10 Who really knows what's going on in that clubhouse? Most writers print what they want, whether it's fact or fiction. I regard Jeter and Mo as very consistent in their personas and matters of public record, for better or for worse. That the majority of NY media is trying to brush Jeter as a bad or undeserving leader only questions the credibility of the NY media, whom most of us know are wildly inconsistent except in their bottom-line agenda.

As for the Mystique of Mo (and that, ironically, is the Real), he's done nothing to dissuade me from believe me that he's the real soul of this team, whereas Jeter is obviously the heart. It's sad that we get caught up in the comparison BS that certain media types have pushed as soon as A-Rod came to town, and I may be naive to think that no one on the team really wants that...

But whether they say it now or during the season, you have to admit that they remained focused on larger issues throughout the season despite what the fans and media were saying, so I'm willing to give a player like Mo the benefit of the doubt because he generally doesn't have to say much, and doesn't have much to say anyway. Which in a way makes what he does say all the more profound to the fans. That's the Mystique of Mo... >;)

2006-11-03 08:27:16
19.   Shaun P
Yeah, the pitching market is tight, but I think that the Yanks are considering droping Wright is actually good news. To me it says they want the roster spot open, not to add a middling old pitcher like Suppan, but to give the spot to a youngster like Rasner or Karstens. Sure Wright only costs $3 mil, but either of those two cost about a tenth of that, and could do at least what Wright does, probably better.
2006-11-03 08:28:24
20.   Chyll Will
18 Um, knowing a little something about the publishing industry, I reiterate: most writers and editors publish what they want... (with a nod to the editorial board's bottom-line directive)
2006-11-03 08:37:20
21.   Yankee Fan In Boston
18 i agree with basically everything you typed. i'm not trying to knock mo in any way at all, merely pointing out that the statement, to me personally, was essentially obvious in nature (we know being alex rodriguez isn't easy... how many of us could perform at our jobs if we were under the kind of scrutiny he is?)and not really worthy of note or praise. especially in november. just my opinion and i acknowledge that others might not see things this way.
2006-11-03 08:40:01
22.   JL25and3
7 I'm one of those who thinks Jeter dropped the ball on this one. But your comments miss my point entirely.

1. It's not that Jeter has any special magic, as opposed to any other player. It's that he has a position - team captain - that no other player has. No matter who the other player is, I think it's appropriate for the captain to express some support on behalf of the team.

2. It's not just what he didn't say, it's what he did say. He could have said, "Everyone has slumps," or "Everyone makes errors." Instead, he said, "Everyone gets booed." That's curt and dismissive, and worse than saying nothing at all.

3. I'm not blaming any of the problems on Jeter. I'm not saying he could have solved them. Maybe it would have made absolutely no difference at all - but it would have been worth the try, and it would have been the right thing to do. Hell, it might even have helped the team win, and it certainly couldn't have hurt.

An analogy: I was at some meaningless late-season game this year where the Yankees were getting killed. Ninth inning, Jeter hit a routine grounder to third, an easy out - but he still busted his ass down the line. He did it because, well, that's what you do - and because maybe, once every couple of years, it could start a miracle rally.

It's kind of the same. Standing up for a teammate is what you do. And who knows, there's that slim chance that it really will matter.

It would have reflected well on Jeter if he had said something supportive, just as running out that grounder reflected well on him. Instead, I thought his comments did not reflect well on him.

Notice that my feelings have absolutely nothing to do with the other player. It's only about Jeter and his role as captain.

2006-11-03 08:40:25
23.   Chyll Will
19 Good key words, "at least". They could at least give five innings consistently, and at a fraction of the price.

By the way, I'm surprised no one's followed up on Jon Heyman's SI piece which included a notice that the Yankees are interested in bringing Pettitte back.

2006-11-03 08:45:26
24.   bp1
23 I'm a little worred that Pettitte Part II will sort of be like Tino Part II. Brief glimpses of glory past, but overall mediocrity. If the Yankees could get him for Wright money, duh, but that ain't gonna happen.
2006-11-03 08:48:06
25.   Yankee Fan In Boston
speaking of news elsewhere, matsuzaka watch had this today:
"The other news beyond the withdrawl of the Mariners is the apparent withdrawl of the Orioles, Angels, Padres, and Dodgers from the bidding. More teams may follow."

also, matsuzaka said outright that he'd prefer the yankees over all others.

[crossing fingers]

2006-11-03 08:54:11
26.   Chyll Will
21 Don't get me wrong, I'm not hammering you (goodness, I'm not taken that seriously around here much >;) I just felt it was important to note the flip side of the comment. Everyone's entitled to an opinion, but around here I notice we have to be prepared to defend it. Keeps us on our toooooes. The name implies the man >;)

22 JL, I thought she was being sarcastic, honestly... but you have articulated very well one side of my internal conflict with Jeter's stance this season.

2006-11-03 08:54:17
27.   JL25and3
20 It also has nothing to do with what did or didn't happen in the clubhouse. It's only about public comments, and I don't think those were grossly misrepresented in the press.
2006-11-03 08:55:02
28.   rbj
I wouldn't necessarily mind having Pettite back. Between him, Unit and Wright, I'll bet that they can take care of one slot in the rotation together. One pitches while the other two nurse boo-boos on the DL.
2006-11-03 08:56:35
29.   bp1
28 and keep Pavano from getting too lonely?
2006-11-03 08:59:14
30.   Shaun P
17 But money does matter, even to the Yanks. Remember Carlos Beltran?

If the Yanks are going to pony up for Matsuzaka, and I think they are, why not save the money owed to Wright when Rasner et al are much cheaper? Besides, the roster spot is valuable too. Follow me here:

Yanks' payroll: 06/07/change, as best I can tell:

A-Rod: 16M/16M/0
Jeter: 19M/20M/+1
Giambi: 18M/21M/+3
Moose: 17M/12M/-5*
Unit: 16M/16M/0
Sheff+Abreu: 17.3M/15M/-2.3**
Damon: 13M/13M/0
'Zilla: 13M/13M/0
Mo: 10.5M/10.5M/0
Jorge: 9M/12M/+3
Pavano: 8M/10M/+2*
Farns: 5M/5.25M/+.25
Myers: 1.15M/1.25M/+.1

*Presuming he signs for $12M/year
**Presuming Sheff is traded, only Abreu counts for next year
*They have to pay him anyway; if he's hurt again, sub in Karstens or Henn with an extra $400K say

So, those 13 guys, in total, make $2.05M more next year than they did this year.

Figure a backup C and a backup IF cost about $1M each, which is about what Cairo and Stinnett/Fasano made this year. That's 15 guys, still just $2.05M more.

Cano, Wang, Proctor, Bruney, and Melky will all be around next year. I think each will end up with $20-$40K more, so say they go up by $200K. That's 20 guys, $2.25M more.

Figure one of the Kevins and either Rasner or Karstens makes the team, in place of Bernie (~$2M) and Villone ($2M). That's about another $1.5M saved, so 22 guys, $.75M more.

Trading Sheff will hopefully add a young pitcher; he probably adds $1M. So 23 guys, $1.75M more.

That leaves 2 spots - a 1B/DH type and hopefully Matsuzaka.

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of nixing Wright. I'm not even sure what he'd fetch on the trade market, so why take the chance of picking up the option?

2006-11-03 08:59:56
31.   Chyll Will
25 (Evil giggle, accompanied with maniacal palm-rubbing.)


2006-11-03 09:03:46
32.   JL25and3
26 Thanks. I think I've exhausted today's righteous indignation, at least for the moment.

Picking up Wright's option will cost more than $3 million. I'm pretty sure that the buyout doesn't count as salary, so that just costs $4 million. If they pick up the option, it's $7 million + $2.8 million luxury tax. So the marginal cost is actually $5.8 million.

Of course, because of that same luxury tax, they can't sign a $5.8 million player with that money. It could only be a $4.14 million player. So the numbers are a little different, but the outcome is basically the same - for that amount of money, you might as well keep Wright.

2006-11-03 09:05:06
33.   bp1
30 I hear ya, but Wright made 30 starts last year. He has value to someone. Not saying the Yankees should sign him, and I'd be delighted to see Rasner/Karsten get a chance, but you can be sure Cash is checking the trade market to see if he can sign him and turn him into something else that he doesn't have in the minor league system. Like a good hitting good fielding 1st baseman.

Q to everyone - have we seen the last of Andy Phillips?

2006-11-03 09:05:27
34.   David
9 19 I think the Yanks should pick up Wright's option, Then they could trade him on a basis that they pay $4 million of his salary. That would cost them the same $4m as if they didn't exercise the option, but they'd by ahead by whatever player they got in trade for Wright.
2006-11-03 09:10:45
35.   Chyll Will
30 Do you think that if Cashman had the authority (read autonomy) he has now, he would have signed Beltran? I'm one to think that it was decisions like that which inspired Cashman to make the play he did to assert his authority...
2006-11-03 09:14:54
36.   Chyll Will
34 Do you have any suggestions on who to get for that margin?
2006-11-03 09:22:10
37.   YankeeInMichigan
36 When July comes around, back-of-the-rotation guys are always in demand. Perhaps the Yankees could actually trade a veteran for prospects. Horrors!
2006-11-03 09:27:58
38.   Chyll Will
37 Yeah, horrible. Think anyone would give up a decent catching prospect for Wright + superflous?
2006-11-03 09:28:43
39.   JL25and3
24 Pettitte's a much better bet. He was terrific two years ago; last year he had a lousy first half but an excellent second half. We can't expect the same pitcher we had before - he's coming up on 35 - but I think he's one of the better options available.

If it keeps them away from Suppan, we already come out ahead.

2006-11-03 09:30:23
40.   YankeeInMichigan
5 18 My favorite Mo moment came after his 3-inning masterpiece in Comerica in May. As the Yanks were pounding Todd Jones in the top of the 11th, I walked down to the home-plate area, observing close-up as Mo returned to the mound, took his warmups, gave a thumbs-up to Torre and disposed of three more Tigers. We were all Yankee fans down there, as the local faithful had headed toward the exists, and the infatuation was tangible. As Mo walked toward the dugout, I instinctively shouted "We love you, Mo." Mo smiled and tossed the game ball to the guy standing next to me.
2006-11-03 09:33:49
41.   Maz
What do you guys think about signing Mientkiewicz and platooning him with Phillips at first? Can't hit a lick...but what a glove. Defense really should be a priority. I believe he's friends with Rodriguez as well. I think it would be a good move. Thoughts?
2006-11-03 09:44:16
42.   Shawn Clap
Instead of a Pettite Redux, I wish the Yanks would take a long, hard look at Zack Duke this winter. He's coming off a miserable 2006, but with proper guidance & motivation this guy has the stuff to be a 22 win phenom.

Sheff & Phillips for Duke - straight up.

2006-11-03 09:47:07
43.   Chyll Will
41 I dunno. He wasn't that good when he played for a New York team, though you might chalk that up to an iffy infield at the time. Plus his bat is close to an automatic out, which would bite in close situations. If you can't pinch-hit with him, then there's really no purpose; Andy Phillips at least has more pop than him. Unless you wanted a first base platoon that balances all-bat/no glove with all-glove/no bat... nah, fahgettaboudit...
2006-11-03 09:59:19
44.   Yankee Fan In Boston
41 i'd prefer hillenbrand. his glove is relatively solid. he hit about 20 HRs last season, batted around .280 i think...
2006-11-03 10:02:23
45.   markp
1B is the #1 offensive position on the field. You want a good hitter there.
2006-11-03 10:02:49
46.   Chyll Will
44 Why were so many teams keen on giving up Hillenbrand even though he's been fairly productive? I remember John Sterling asked the same thing when Toronto released him. He's been around the last few years, why would that be?

42 Those are not pretty numbers he's had the last couple of years, plus he was hurt. That's not an even trade.

2006-11-03 10:04:20
47.   JL25and3
41 I don't want Doug Mxyzptlk - or Phillips, for that matter, much as I hate to admit it. An A OPS north of 800 with an adequate glove doesn't seem like it's shooting too high.

Platooning on the Yankees is often a problem. Joe doesn't seem to like it much, and he's frankly not very good at it. Rather than a lefty-righty platoon, he's likely to play the guy whose belly is more full of guts at the moment.

Also, Joe's 12-pitcher fetish means that the Yankees only have 4 bench players. I hate using a spot on a guy with Mxyzptlk's limited skill set.

2006-11-03 10:06:02
48.   JL25and3
44 Well, if Sheffield is really gone, Hilllenbrand can fit right into the surly malcontent role.
2006-11-03 10:06:09
49.   Yankee Fan In Boston
44 after checking up on my numbers, i was surprisingly close. .277 / 21 HR / 68 RBI / 73 R / 1 SB.

looks like he only made 2 errors at 1B, too, but i didn't check the more detailed fielding numbers.

2006-11-03 10:07:34
50.   Yankee Fan In Boston
44 after checking up on my numbers, i was surprisingly close. .277 / 21 HR / 68 RBI / 73 R / 1 SB.

looks like he only made 2 errors at 1B, too, but i didn't check the more detailed fielding numbers.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-11-03 10:08:26
51.   Yankee Fan In Boston
49 50 oops... sorry. (i'm tempted to post this twice, but will show some restraint.)
2006-11-03 10:11:44
52.   Yankee Fan In Boston
48 ah.... right. i had forgotten about his reported "personality conflicts."
2006-11-03 10:16:15
53.   Chyll Will
48 I don't know about you, but it would sure make me happy to know there's someone of Sheff's stature to take his place (that could also field the position) so we can to campaign to get rid of him. Fun! >;)
2006-11-03 10:23:08
54.   Chyll Will
47 If Cashman can trick him into saying his name backwards during negotiations, he can wind up back with the Ded Sox with six year, $75 million contract. Also fun!
2006-11-03 10:26:35
55.   Yankee Fan In Boston
54 that is the funniest thing i've read in quite a while.
2006-11-03 10:52:03
56.   Yankee Fan In Boston
now that i really look at the free agent 1Bs out there, it looks like they might need to trade for one. unless they want to pay for sean casey, who as it turns out is the supposed to be the nicest guy on the planet.
2006-11-03 10:53:14
57.   nemecizer
8 Obi-Wan Rivera. That's goddamn right. I sent the following email to my brothers and their fiancees:

"So Mo has come to A-Rod's defense in a statement at his restaurant last night. It occurs to me that what someone on the blog comments that follows wrote is true for me as well: when I look back over these Yankees 10 years from now, I think I will remember Mo most of all. Jeter is always big in my heart, and I will always love Jorge, but when it comes to a man who is the epitome of class and professionalism and the Yankees dynasty from 1996 to 2001, I think Mo beats them all. This is a guy who builds churches in the off season!

Next year is his last year on contract and he wants two more after that. We've got like 3 years of Mo left, at the most, and then one weekend in Cooperstown. Let's make the best of them."

Mo is the best. My brothers and I grew up in CT and we are planning a trip to Mo's place in New Rochelle soon.

2006-11-03 10:56:05
58.   JL25and3
53 Well, he's not of Sheffield's stature. Hillenbrand might be an All-Star, but Sheffield is the Babe Ruth of surly malcontents. He's a sure-fire, first-ballot, possibly unanimous selection for the Hall of Surly Malcontents.

54 Excellent.

2006-11-03 11:04:47
59.   Bama Yankee
54 Great job, Chyll.

I also like the "Obi-Wan Rivera" from 8.

Good thing it is not Obi-Ruben Rivera because then Jeter would have to keep an eye on his lightsaber ;-)

2006-11-03 11:19:48
60.   nemecizer
32 Well said. Very well said. This is the kind of analysis that most fans don't understand, but that drives decision making in the Yankees front office.
2006-11-03 11:23:46
61.   Yankee Fan In Boston
matsuzaka tangent alert!

i was unaware of this rumor until today:
"But there may be loopholes. It can be in the Japanese team's best interest for the winning bid to come from a team with which the player wants to sign, since that is the only way the Japanese team gets money. So a Japanese team could make an under-the-table deal with a U.S. team in which only a portion of the winning bid would have to be paid.

When the Seattle Mariners won the rights to sign Ichiro Suzuki in 2000, there were rumors they paid just $4 million of the $13 million winning bid to the Orix Blue Wave."

(from a article today... a huge link)

please tell me that ca$hman is working this angle....

2006-11-03 11:45:48
62.   Yankee Fan In Boston
61 here's that article:
2006-11-03 11:51:27
63.   Chyll Will
58 I dunno, there was Albert Belle a few years back; even the announcers couldn't wait for him to retire. Then of course there was Bobby (I'll Show You da Bronx) Bonilla if you wanna talk in Ruthian proportions. I also read in some form of print that the number one reason the players cited for the '86 Mets' inspired run to the championship was the fact that they traded George Foster. Do the two Rogers (Kenny and Clemens) fit into that mold as well, or are they just coo-coo for cocoa-puffs? >;)

59 Thanks, Bama and YFIB. Obi-Wan was one of those "Hmm!" things; hope it catches on at some point.

57 Yo, I heard that Obi-Wan Rivera's a baaaad mutha(shut yo' mouth!)

2006-11-03 11:56:55
64.   Yankee Fan In Boston
63 the george foster trade may have been a small factor in the '86 WS run, but the biggest boost they got came in powdered form.
2006-11-03 11:59:05
65.   Chyll Will
64 Donuts? >;)
2006-11-03 12:02:22
66.   Yankee Fan In Boston
65 ...sure.

"what, officer? no... i was just bakin' for my momma..."

2006-11-03 12:07:18
67.   Chyll Will
40 I forgot to mention that had me lol... reminds me of the pancakes story several posts ago.
2006-11-03 12:11:39
68.   Chyll Will
66 No wonder Doc was ringing up so many 0's...
2006-11-03 12:14:48
69.   rbj
65 66 How did Bobby "donuts" Abreu help the '86 Mets?
2006-11-03 12:15:53
70.   Yankee Fan In Boston
69 ooooooooooo... that's nice.

(he sold them the cocaine.)

2006-11-03 12:19:05
71.   Yankee Fan In Boston
70 and it should be said that that stuff is bad for you and can kill.

that's my PSA.

2006-11-03 12:19:36
72.   JL25and3
63 I still say none of them can match: "If the official scorer gave me an error that I didn't think was an error, I'd say `OK, here's a real error,' and I'd throw the next ball into the stands on purpose." Really, wrap your mind around that one for a while...

They're Hall of Famers, every one (add Dave Kingman to the mix as well). But the annual trophy should be the Gary Sheffield Award.

2006-11-03 12:20:51
73.   Start Spreading the News
D'Angelo Jimenez is available. Oakland just released him. Anyone want him? As a Backup?
2006-11-03 12:22:14
74.   Chyll Will
70 Shhh... try again
2006-11-03 12:31:37
75.   Yankee Fan In Boston
74 [clears throat]

sure, drugs seem cool on tv and in the moving pictures at your local cinema, but don't believe it.
they'll do nothing but turn you into an unbearable, rude, destitute wreck.
like bobby brown.
the singer.
not the baseball guy.
he didn't do drugs... and he's a doctor. so... he did pretty well for himself.
but really, drugs will kill you. they killed elvis, and he was a lot cooler than you'll ever be.
...especially if you use drugs.
...because you'll be dead.
so don't.

2006-11-03 12:33:54
76.   Chyll Will
72 I was thinking Dave Kingman too. That's rather jerky, indeed. BUT... I would have to go with the Tyrus Raymond Cobb Award -
2006-11-03 12:38:31
77.   rbj
Wait, you mean to tell me that at one point in time some ballplayers ingested illegal drugs? Who's next, rock stars?
2006-11-03 12:40:09
78.   Chyll Will
75 and breathe...
2006-11-03 12:40:26
79.   Yankee Fan In Boston
rbj- don't read 75.

or watch any "behind the music" things... which you really should avoid anyway... but yeah.

2006-11-03 12:43:27
80.   Chyll Will
77 I heard a tiny little rumor... that even some of our elected officials have indulged in a little medley at some point...
2006-11-03 12:46:28
81.   Yankee Fan In Boston
80 not in front of rbj!
2006-11-03 12:49:34
82.   rbj
Damn, I'm soooo disillusioned.
Guess I'll have to snort some heroin off a hooker's ass to feel better.
2006-11-03 12:51:22
83.   Yankee Fan In Boston
82 do you see, chyll will?!? do you see the effect you can have on the impressionable minds of--

--hooker's ass?

...can i swing by for bit?

2006-11-03 12:52:04
84.   Chyll Will
73 A backup to who, this guy?

Or was "backup" a suggestion?

2006-11-03 12:53:31
85.   JL25and3
76 Ah, come on. Let me have my little hate-fest. You can't say he hasn't earned it...
2006-11-03 12:55:51
86.   JL25and3
76 And while I'm not sure "surly malcontent" is quite the right term, the single most rotten apple - judging the player rather than the person - might have been Hal Chase.
2006-11-03 12:56:06
87.   Chyll Will
83 For my Official Statement on that matter, I kindly refer you to 31...

no further questions.

2006-11-03 12:59:48
88.   Chyll Will
85 Man, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to rain on the parade... aw, go ahead and have some fun. You only live once, right?
2006-11-03 13:08:21
89.   rbj
83 Sure. If you can, pick up a couple bottles of Crystal. Oh, and we're out of ammo - 9 mm.
2006-11-03 13:15:11
90.   Yankee Fan In Boston
89 all i have is hollow-point. i hope that's okay.
2006-11-03 13:17:59
91.   Yankee Fan In Boston
wow. this started out as a discussion of mike mussina and how we all respect mariano rivera, and quickly sank to hookers, drugs and dave kingman.

we are a classy bunch.

2006-11-03 13:21:22
92.   JL25and3
91 It's Friday afternoon and we're all a little tired. Wait until Monday - we should be able to sink lower than that.
2006-11-03 13:24:15
93.   rbj
I just want to point out that I didn't bring up Dave Kingman.
And there's the quitting bell!
Have a good weekend, all.
2006-11-03 13:24:28
94.   Yankee Fan In Boston
92 that's more like it.
2006-11-03 13:29:59
95.   Chyll Will
86 Wowzers. I just read up on him... if they were to make an award in that category, who would it be named after, him or Pete Rose?

... or is Pete Rose really Hal Chase back from the dead?

2006-11-03 13:35:21
96.   tommyl
I actually always thought that the reason they didn't sign Beltran was the long term nature of the required deal coming off the steroids era. Having at that point been burned very badly by Giambi (and back then he was a total black hole). I think they were reluctant to sink that much money, into that long a contract that could once again bite them in the ass. It would have tied them up badly if it had gone wrong. Just a thought...
2006-11-03 13:43:51
97.   Yankee Fan In Boston
96 that is my recollection as well, but i am no source to be trusted. ever.
2006-11-03 13:56:32
98.   tommyl
97 That's my theory, I don't know if anyone actually ever came out and said that.
2006-11-03 13:58:45
99.   Shaun P
96 It might have played in to it, but Beltran was going to be 28 and a speedy guy, not a slow-footed 31-to-be like Giambi was. Speedy guys age much better in baseball terms, so that plus the 3 year age difference meant a long-term deal for Beltran was much less likely to hurt the Yanks. I think it was really was about the money.

92 And, of course, another day, another A-Rod discussion. I really liked with you said re: Jeter, JL, especially given that the Cap'n made very public statements in the press about Mr. Steroid Giambi when he was going through his troubles. I'm too tired to find a cite to such an article now. Maybe Monday. ;)

2006-11-03 14:05:17
100.   tommyl
99 I agree with you. I think they were worried about roster flexibility though had he gone bust in NY. The Mets on the other hand had much fewer long term, high priced contacts so were much more flexible.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-11-03 15:28:40
101.   Chyll Will
99 You complain, but I wanted to know what the over/under is on how many days between now and the start of next season A-Rod was going to be mentioned by name. I asked that several days ago and still didn't get an answer.

Hey, when life gives you lemons, yadda-yadda-yadda...

2006-11-03 15:46:30
102.   JL25and3
101 How many days are there before the start of next season? That number's my over/under.
2006-11-03 16:28:16
103.   jakewoods
they made a mistake not getting beltran for the cheap price he offered but they made bigger mistakes in pitching.

brown, vazquez, pavano, weaver.

not many teams survive that 0-4 run.

the one decision that cost us 2 titles was choosing vazquez over schilling.

2006-11-03 16:30:30
104.   OldYanksFan
"Liriano will undergo Tommy John surgery... that will most certainly keep him from pitching in 2007."

While I do NOT want to trade ARod anyway, this is just another example of why not. Pitchers, unless you know their entire history (and even that's no guarantee) are just too damn fragile.

In July of last year, I'm sure we would have traded ARod for Liriano, straight up, if we could have. We would have lost years of super production for a hope and a prayer.

I think you HAVE to draft and raise pitching in the minors. Trying to buy it is just too expensive and speculative. There have been MANY big contract pitching busts (is Matzusaka the next?).

The Mets were once great at bringing up pitching. Its long term, but I think you have to skew your system to focus on pitching... get some inhouse experts, and raise them carefully (read: don't overuse before 24 yrs old).

Thankfully, it looks like we have some decent pitching coming in late 2007.

(I like that 'hooker's ass' thing).

2006-11-03 17:07:30
105.   BxSparksNYC
This may have been mention before so pardon me but perhaps some can answer it for me. What's stopping say another team from posted an obscene bid to the Japan team for the guy and have no intention of signing him. Boras would never accept a lowball offer and if he doesn't sign with the team I believe he would go back to Japan correct? I would think Boston who may not want to shell out that kind of doe for the guy would take the risk just so the Yanks couldn't get him. And if they did get stuck with him (if he took the lowball offer) so what, they ended up with a pretty decent pitcher. Could that in theory happen?
2006-11-03 17:19:09
106.   Yankee Fan In Boston
105 i think the general consensus around here was, and please speak up with corrections/counterpoints, that bidding high and intentionally lowballing would do 3 things:

a) piss off scott boras, the man with a ton of big name/talented players under his spell.

b) it would make int'l players less likely to want to deal with you in the future, your reputation would be tarnished in these circles.

3) you'd only be delaying matsuzaka's arrival by one year. if he's a free agent in '08, he'll be able to choose where he goes. if i were him, i'd go to the nearest divisional competitor of the team that screwed me over.

anybody else have any thoughts?

2006-11-03 17:32:41
107.   BxSparksNYC
Thats what I thought - you'd be dealing from the bottom of the deck so to speak and killing your reputation in the process...thnx

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