Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
Gambler Rolls, Wagner Touched
2006-10-14 07:52
by Alex Belth
Note: The Bronx Banter blog has moved to

The Mets lost a tough, but exciting game last night to the Cards while Kenny "The Animal" Rogers continues his improbable run as October playoff stud, bringing the Tigers within a game of the World Serious. More baseball this afternoon and tonight. Mm, mm good.

Comments (69)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-10-14 08:28:24
1.   Emy
I haven't been able to watch any baseball since the Yanks got bounced. It would be like watching my wife date another man...I guess I'm still disgusted.

Anybody else see this:

Whew! Don't think I could handle another accident.

2006-10-14 08:48:17
2.   yogifan
At what point does the Mets bullpen collapse from overuse?
2006-10-14 08:51:50
3.   randym77
I've been watching, though not as religiously as I would if the Yanks were still in it.

Oddly, it's easier for me this year than last. Last year, we came so close. I couldn't help thinking "What if?"

This year, we got blown out the last two games, and didn't even take it to five. We didn't deserve to win, so I can accept the defeat.

2006-10-14 09:03:44
4.   pistolpete
I'm actually rooting for Detroit to sweep outright - the A's, and then whomever they play in the World Series.

Then the Yanks have bragging rights - we'd be the only team to have beaten the world champs in the playoffs. ;-)

2006-10-14 09:44:03
5.   C2Coke
3 I had the exact same feeling.
4 That's hilarious. Yet, the more rational (but perhaps still irrational to normal standards) side of me do want to see the Mets do well.

I've been so busy lately, not only I wasn't able to watch the games, I barely had time to come to the Banter. I'd probably would want to slap myself at this point if the Yanks were still playing because I would not be able to watch the games religiously.

2006-10-14 09:51:25
6.   SF Yanks
3 I also had the same feeling.
4 My brother said the same thing to me. I thought it was crazy at first, but now I'm rooting for the sweep.
5 Ya know, I have also been busier and feel that I would not have time to watch the Yanks right now. But if they were to reach this far I would find a way, just like I did all season.
2006-10-14 10:50:29
7.   JL25and3
3 I found this year much tougher. The Yankees always matched up badly against the Angels - still do - and they were always going to be a tough opponent. But the Tigers? Honestly, I still don't think they're that good - I think they're playing over their heads, though in another week or two that won't matter.

With the division title on the line, they got swept by the Royals in the last series of the season. Then the Yankees beat them handily in game 1...this series should have been a cakewalk. Losing it, and looking so pathetic doing it, was awful.

Plus...Kenny Frickin' Rogers?????

2006-10-14 11:43:23
8.   brockdc
4 If the Tigers take it all, the Yanks will have lost to the eventual W.S. champs in the playoffs four of the last five years.
2006-10-14 12:19:13
9.   pistolpete
8 Which, FOIP, still makes me feel good about our team. We're still the gold standard in the AL.
2006-10-14 12:53:55
10.   rbj
From 1996 onward, the Yankees have either won the WS or been ousted by the WS champ in every year but 1997 & 2005, IIRC.
2006-10-14 13:52:12
11.   randym77
7 "The Yankees always matched up badly against the Angels"

That's precisely why it was so frustrating. I think our chances were pretty good if we got past the Angels.

And we came so close to beating them. That last game was in question until the very last out. If Sheff hadn't run into Bubba... If stupid Joe West hadn't called Cano out for running inside the line... If Bernie hadn't missed the hit and run, or Joe hadn't called it... If A-Rod had gotten a hit or even a strikeout instead of a GIDP in the 9th...

Still not as maddening as 2004, of course.

BTW, anyone getting their TV signals out of NYC got Fox? I'm getting all the other channels okay, but Fox is the blue screen of death.

2006-10-14 15:07:06
12.   Simone
The Tigers are doing it again. Like Mussina, Haren is giving up the lead. Ugh.
2006-10-14 15:27:58
13.   RIYank
Will the Tigers squeeze here?
2006-10-14 15:36:02
14.   RIYank
Tigers fail to get the go-ahead run in from third with fewer than two outs. Therefore, Jim Leyland is no longer a candidate for Manager of the Year.
2006-10-14 16:06:12
15.   randym77
Well, this looks like trouble for Oakland.

Wonder if Joe would send Mo in in this situation?

2006-10-14 16:09:41
16.   randym77
Holy crap, they got out of it. A's aren't going down without a fight.
2006-10-14 16:10:50
17.   Bama Yankee
15 Probably not, but I think it is a good move (and it pays off as I type this).
2006-10-14 16:12:49
18.   randym77
Bama! How'd the Alabama game go?
2006-10-14 16:13:27
19.   RIYank
Definitely a good move. If you don't have your best pitcher pitch in that situation, when exactly do you want him pitching?

The Tigers certainly don't know how to manufacture runs.

2006-10-14 16:14:32
20.   Bama Yankee
18 Not very well, we were a two TD favorite and barely pulled it out in OT (26-23).
2006-10-14 16:16:17
21.   randym77
20 Wow. It went to OT!

At least you won. I watched some of the beginning, and it didn't look good.

2006-10-14 16:18:29
22.   RIYank
Enough football. It's time for some sardonic, bitter, sabermetrically informed sniping.
2006-10-14 16:21:26
23.   RIYank
Holy cow.
That's a lotta balls. And I don't mean that in the usual way.
2006-10-14 16:21:45
24.   Bama Yankee
21 We are not really that good this year. We were up 20-13 in the 4th but Ole Miss faked a punt (barely made it) and then threw a long TD bomb on the next play to tie it up.
2006-10-14 16:21:54
25.   randym77
Boy, this is turning out to be some game.
2006-10-14 16:24:16
26.   Bama Yankee
22 I hear ya RIYank, I am about ready to give up on football this year myself...
2006-10-14 16:33:24
27.   mehmattski
Whoa, whoa, whoa.... the closer, is in? In a tie game, on the road? Before the 9th inning?!? Has the whole world gone crazy?!?
2006-10-14 16:38:06
28.   RIYank
I'm okay with football (although in the Northeast we don't really believe in college football). I was just in the mood for sardonic, bitter, sabermetrically informed sniping.
Thanks, mehmattski!
2006-10-14 16:41:33
29.   mehmattski
28 Don't thank me, thank Ken Macha. Pleasure to be of service, though.

This game has Craig Monroe/Carlos Guillen walk off homer written all over it.

2006-10-14 16:47:21
30.   RIYank
Ken Macha seems to be a good manager, actually. Leyland put me in the mood for sniping.
2006-10-14 16:48:49
31.   das411
You guys could always check out Ken's game thread over at Catfish Stew...
2006-10-14 16:52:59
32.   randym77
Someone posted an interesting theory over at the YES boards today. His English wasn't very good, but I gather he thought Leyland intentionally put his third worst pitcher up against our best.

He says the idea was to put their worst against our best, their best against our second best, and their second best against our third best, etc. Sacrificing the first game in order to win the rest.

2006-10-14 16:53:11
33.   mehmattski
Polanco is the best baseball player to ever wear a balaclava in a playoff game.
2006-10-14 16:53:53
34.   mehmattski
29 I was very close.
2006-10-14 16:54:07
35.   randym77
29 Close. It was Ordonez.
2006-10-14 16:55:22
36.   rbj
Wow. Well, Congrats to the Tigers.
2006-10-14 16:55:24
37.   Simone
The Tigers are going to run over the Mets next. Only Wang has beaten them this post season. Craziness.
2006-10-14 16:58:12
38.   mehmattski
I do love the run around the stadium. Very classy, shows the guys are having fun.

Congrats to the Tigers.

2006-10-14 16:58:49
39.   Simone
Yuck, Kenny Rogers.
2006-10-14 17:03:26
40.   Simone
Billy Beane needs to consider making a deal with the devil like Rogers.

Now that Pudge is in the World Series, is anyone at FOX or ESPN or in the media going to talk about his miraculous weight loss and the steriod suspicions that surround him? I bet not.

2006-10-14 17:04:06
41.   mehmattski
Exciting first game, but it's downhill from here: I just realized tonight's game is Jeff Suppan versus Steve Trachsel. Yeeeeelch.
2006-10-14 17:08:07
42.   randym77
I wonder if the last night's loss is a temporary setback for the Mets, or a turning point.
2006-10-14 17:10:33
43.   Simone
All this credit being to given to Leyland is just insane. It is much like how the media fawned over Ozzie Guillen and Jack McKeon. I don't doubt that Leyland is a good manager, but he didn't do anything magically to turn this Tigers club around. He became the manager after Ilitch was embarassed into allowing Dombrowski to sign some talented offensive players (Pudge and Ordonez) and most importantly just as the Tigers' young pitchers came into their own. These players deserve most of the credit, not Leyland.
2006-10-14 17:19:07
44.   OldYanksFan
"Fox fires [Steve] Lyons for racially insensitive comment"
I am not a big fan of Lyons, and his foot infrequently in his mouth... but it is getting to the point where you can't be too careful what you say.

The 'politically correct' environment in this country is beginning to remind me of 1930's Germany.

2006-10-14 17:21:17
45.   randym77
43 You should hear the Pirates fans wailing and gnashing their teeth. They all think they could have had him back this year, if only they'd asked. He still lives in Pittsburgh. They think if only they'd hired him, it might be them in postseason, not the Tigers.

I have to admit, Leyland worked miracles in Pittsburgh while he was there. At least compared to how they've done since.

2006-10-14 17:31:37
46.   Simone
44 The "politicaly correct" enviroment is what is remind you of 1930s Germany? You obviously don't have a clue about that period in history. Lyons is a dumbass whose comments reveals that he has issues about people's ethnicity. Given FOX's reputation, I expect them to rehire him for a second time in a couple of years.
2006-10-14 18:04:14
47.   Stormer Sports

He should have been fired when he made his comments a few years back about Shawn Green.

They both should have been fired after mocking the blind man.

He was rightfully fired after his comments about Sweet Lou's Spanish.

2006-10-14 18:11:08
48.   OldYanksFan
46 Thats just my point. He was NOT fired for being a 'dumbass', but for racial insensitivity. Is he a bigot? I don't know. Should bigots have jobs? You don't know any good people who ever made a 'racist' joke? You have never made a 'racist' joke? Should you lose your job, it you do/did?

He should explain or apologise ON AIR, so kids who see his apology and then ask their parents what it was about. Then his remark becomes a learning experience for others. Instead he is fired.

My reference to Germany was that people were afraid to speak what was on their mind, for fear of reprisals. Firing is a reprisal. Have you ever voiced a view against the war? Were you called a 'traitor' or 'UnAmerican'?
(like our congressmen). Can you be fired for being 'traitor' or 'UnAmerican'... or just a bigot?

2006-10-14 18:19:51
49.   randym77
Well, I guess this is going to be a gut-check for the Mets. They've been rolling along all year. Time to show some grit.
2006-10-14 18:26:01
50.   Stormer Sports
Pitching, pitching, pitching.

It's going to be tough for the Mets to take this series with that pitching staff. Just have to hope LaRussa over-manages them out of the series.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-10-14 18:30:40
51.   Stormer Sports

Dude. You're kidding, right?

Having a political or policy opinion is not the same thing as saying a Jew not marrying a Jew or not having a Barmitzva means he should play on Yom Kippor, or mocking a blind man, or Latinos. Well, unless you believe the government should do or not do something to benefit or harm a specific ethnic group, then you might be a bigot.

2006-10-14 18:40:11
52.   Shaun P
48 I'm not going near that one with a 150-foot pole.

For those who haven't already seen it, has had some awesome stuff lately.

And wsporter, if you're out there, we ended up not going to Old U. Maybe in the spring for ReUnion though . . .

2006-10-14 19:04:11
53.   RIYank
No, it's true. Little known fact: in the 1930s the Germans were incredibly sensitive about anyone making a bigoted or racist remark. People could lose their jobs for making anti-semitic cracks. In Germany, in the 1930s. Did I say it was a little-known fact?
2006-10-14 19:38:22
54.   mikeplugh
I'm about as Left as it gets, but I think Lyons was unfairly treated. Here's why:

1. He has been celebrated at Fox for his outrageous "Crazy" Steve Lyons will say anything style for years. The producers encourage him to be a jackass.

2. Far worse things have been said on Fox and other networks for that matter without resulting in termination.

3. What he said to Piniella was stupid, but I don't believe Lyons is any more racially or culturally insensitive than any of the other Fox talking heads on the news programs they air.

He was fired because Piniella was pissed off that he got mocked by Steve Lyons. What he said was probably ignorant, but not racist. It was insensitive in some way, but not moreso than what he said about the blind fan with the visual assitance device. It happened because he mocked a famous and powerful member of the baseball fraternity.

I've only read what was said, so I can't say with all that much certainty how severe the tone of his comments were, but we'd all be hypocrites if we piled on Lyons without taking a good hard look at what else is said in the media on a daily basis. The media has married itself to talk-radio journalism in this day and age, and encourages outrage. It boosts ratings. The days of Walter Cronkite and Dick Schaap are behind us.

Either we, as consumers, demand a change to this kind of sensationalism, or we'll see idiotic remarks like Lyons' on the nightly news and no one will bat an eye. Should there be discipline? Yes. A kind of broadcast "censure" makes more sense than a firing. If our own president can lie about weapons of mass destruction and get 10,000s of innocent people killed while keeping his job, so should Steve Lyons.

2006-10-14 19:38:40
55.   weeping for brunnhilde
Does anyone else think Willie was insane for leaving Mota in there yesterday after walking the aboard the tying run on four pitches?

If the Mets don't win, that to me is the decisive moment in the series.

2006-10-14 19:47:28
56.   weeping for brunnhilde
54 Well said, Mike.

Couldn't agree more.

2006-10-14 19:57:49
57.   mikeplugh
By the way, if you want to fire Steve Lyons because he's a terrible baseball commentator, be my guest. Fire Joe Morgan, Jon Kruk, Steve Phillips, Joe Buck, and a whole host of others too while you're at it. They are intellectually insensitive.
2006-10-14 20:02:40
58.   bobtaco
57 Please add Thom Brennaman to that list. I believe he has been the most egregious this post season. Everything he says is dumb and/or wrong.
2006-10-14 20:03:38
59.   weeping for brunnhilde
Speaking of firings, you know who I'm a little concerned about?


I love, love, love listening to him, both because of his personality and because of his respect for the game. Yet he often says things that make me think they're going to fire him.

Once he likened a lineup card with all its squiggles and crossings-out to an acid trip.

And his humor can often be a bit callow and sexist, in that old school rat pack type way.

I guess he gets away with it because he's local, but still, I'd hate to see them pull the plug on him because his authenticity is what makes him so enjoyable to watch a game with.

2006-10-14 20:21:45
60.   randym77
Gawd, remember when ESPN thought Rush Limbaugh would be a good sportscaster? They hired him because he says such outrageous things, but fired him when he actually did it.

Olbermann has known Limbaugh for a long time, and he says that sportscasting is actually Limbaugh's dream job. It's what he really wants to do in life. He's gotten rich off politics, but he doesn't enjoy the job.

2006-10-14 20:32:21
61.   weeping for brunnhilde

A nice piece from a history blog I contribute to on nineteenth century player Jim Creighton, who evidently changed everything.

2006-10-14 20:37:53
62.   mikeplugh
Think Phil Rogers of the Chicago Cubs has been reading Matsuzaka Watch? His article:

and my most recent:

2006-10-14 20:41:31
63.   mikeplugh
62 That should read Chicago Tribune
2006-10-14 20:43:37
64.   Shaun P
FOX has a double standard? I'm shocked, shocked I tell you!

54 mike, you're right on about most of the current media, and that's why I tend to avoid it as much as possible. Unfortunately, outrage sells. The only way I see things changing is if many many consumers express their outrage by supporting media outlets that don't engage in outrage-tactics.

I'm afraid I don't see many such outlets out there.

2006-10-14 20:48:53
65.   bobtaco
60 He was a director of promotions with the Kansas City Royals baseball team at one point in the 70s.
2006-10-14 21:10:40
66.   BklynBmr
62 It's been a long day and my eyes are glazing over, can you point out specifically what you're referring to?
2006-10-15 00:12:09
67.   mikeplugh
66 Nothing exact, but more the type of information and the way it's presented. He clearly did some research on his own, but the details that are hard to find are presented in much the same way I just wrote them.
2006-10-15 05:38:31
68.   C2Coke
I just wanted to congradulate the Tigers. No matter how we doubted them as "paper" material. They made it to the WS.

Honestly, I am feeling better everyday because it turned out we didn't lose to a bad team, just a team we found a way to beat during the season but not the playoffs...wait...I feel like vomiting again.

And then, there's Kenny Rogers, somehow he figured out how to make this October, the month of his career, good for him!

2006-10-15 06:17:48
69.   randym77
So, is it time for Mets fans to panic yet?

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