Baseball Toaster was unplugged on February 4, 2009.
"You never complain about pressure because you understand it goes with what you do," Torre said yesterday at a news conference at Yankee Stadium. "With the danger of failing is the elation of winning. You can't get elated unless there's a danger."
Joe Torre was sharply dressed yesterday as he addressed the media at Yankee Stadium. His wife, Ali, was with him. After talking to several people about the situation, and then reading the papers this morning, it occurs to me that Torre needs the job as Yankee manager as much as they need him. Perhaps even more so. With two ex-wives, four kids, and more than a few houses to maintain, Torre was simply not going to walk away from $7 million. But it is more than that, of course. Torre will be paid handsomely (if not quite as handsomely) as a TV analyst and a regular on the lecture circut when he finally hangs up the spikes, but he'll never have the prestige and glamour that he currently enjoys as the manager of the Yankees.
That is a lot to give up and Torre is obviously willing to allow himself to be left hung-out-to-dry for several days by the owner as the local media speculated wildly about his future. In the past he has put-up with being second-guessed by his owner, and allowed Steinbrenner to trash his coaches, stuff Buck Showalter would not put up with (you can see Lou Piniella telling George to take-this-job-and-shove-it if he had been in the same situation as Torre was this week). Of course, the Boss at 76 is different from the man who ran the team by fear and intimidation in the 70s and 80s, and Torre has achieved far more success than any manager George had before him. Still, I can't help but feel how much the job matters to Torre, and am struck by how much he'll deal with in order to keep the position.
The other thing that struck me was the following passage from Tyler Kepner's coverage today in the Times:
"The interesting part is, when you say it's been six years, if I'm not mistaken, it was 18 years when I got here," Torre said. "And then in '98, it was: 'Hey, it's been two years since you won. What happened?' There's a lot of luck involved."I don't want you to think I'm backing off any accountability. I'm in charge here, it's my responsibility to make sure we get the job done, and we didn't get the job done. But there's a lot of luck."
For all the talk of the character and guts and will that the '96-'01 Yankees had when compared with the '02-'06 teams, some observers believe that the critical difference between the two is nothing more than pure luck. And here is Torre saying as much himself. He should know. Torre's monumentally bad luck for most of his career as a player and as a manager has been well-documented. Then he enjoyed one of the most improbable runs of luck, good fortune, whatever you want to call it, that any manager in baseball has ever been blessed with (certainly in the free agent era). Now, he returns to the hot seat once again, hoping to roll a lucky seven one more time before the ride is finally over.
Would a billion dollar corporation really give any power to someone who is cognitively-impaired? I really doubt it. I had a strong feeling that Torre would be back the instant that I heard Cashman's statement on Saturday night.
This also offers an alternative explanation of why Torre continues to put up with the job. Dealing with a corporate front office is much easier than dealing with the old irrational Steinbrenner.
How much of this was generated to keep the Mets off the radar for 72 hours? Certainly a quiet sedate ownership that owned the Yankees would look at a first round loss to see if the manager was replaced. But 9 straight hours on ESPN 1050 radio on Monday??
Also, what mehmattski said in the lead-off spot. "And the Bronx Banter is off to a good start."
And that reminds me: I heard John Sterling interviewed on the local affiliate a couple of days ago, and he was surprisingly good. It wasn't so much that he was deeply insightful as that he seemed very keenly aware of how foolish Sports Guys look, sound, and are, when they engage in long-winded pop psychology, and keenly aware also of his own limitations and ignorance.
if steinbrenner is demanding "fire" in his players, he might not want to get entangled in the bidding war that boras has planned. (unless it is to drive up the price for the sox, of course.)
mlb.com had zito blog about his preparation for the alcs game one start. here's how he closes it out:
"Tonight, I'm just going to chill out at my house. Watch a movie, surf the Internet, play some guitar. Just relax. Same old stuff for me. It's just another start. Everything around me seems a little more intense or amplified, but my preparation out there on the mound is just about 60 feet and six inches, me and a catcher and a hitter, and if we win, we win. If we lose, we lose. Time will play itself out."
wow. there's a follow-up entry, too.
you can read the rest here:
http://barryzito.mlblogs.com/
Was Torre really that close to going? Swindal and Cashman supported him publicly before the Boss said anything. Is the Boss even still really running the show?
2 I prefer to not try to make medicial diagnoses from afar, but I do think George isn't his old fire-breathing self. I'm willing to bet that Cashman and Steve Swindal are the real power in the organization now. I'm also willing to bet that the tabloids, and the remnants of the Tampa faction that were their sources for decades, are not happy with that, because that means they have no power. Hence, all the rumors and speculation of the last few days.
I never thought that Torre might need/want the job more than the Yanks might need/want him. I forget that ballplayers in the old days didn't exactly make millions in their careers. Does this mean Torre could actually stay on past '07? Presuming there are no major problems next season, which I'm sure his nemesises in the press will be happy to try to create.
On Monday Steinbrenner himself said "I haven't made up my mind yet."
George thought about it, got advice, cooled down, and decided to stick with Joe.
I don't think it was a media created event. Joe's job was in jeopardy after the Yanks fell.
i think that as soon as he was done feeding the tigers the scouting report on how to pitch to the greatest lineup of all time, curt schilling called up the daily news and planted the firing story.
(either that or rodriguez did both. when in doubt...)
Mine and several others' observation was that Torre should have a bench coach who could contribute on a tactical basis in the likes of Zimmer, who had some considerable influence on his decision making during their run together, along with Mel.
Even if Torre were to stay a little longer, I would only see that occuring because there are in the opinion of the people that matter (Torre, Cashman and Swindal) no better-suited or groomed candidates available to take the reigns.
That's why I earlier proposed the Pinella-as-bench coach theory. Their personalities appear conflicting, but their competitive drive to win could theoretically supercede any conflict of interest, while also ingratiating Joe's possible successor to the old standby's and current and incoming newbies.
There's a substancial inherent risk in this, but then there is as much risk in bringing in anyone not named Mattingly, Pena, Bowa or even Willie. And even there, it's not likely to make people (even here) feel very sanguine. Such is baseball.
Sometimes you just have to be lucky than good. I think that applies not only to baseball but in life. I remember thinking this when I was graduating from college and I saw some of my classmates getting jobs that they didn't deserve, but they were at the right place at the right time and good things happened to them. All you can do is keep putting yourself in the right situations and you'll eventually be as lucky.
I think the Red Sox philosophy for the playoff is the right one. Just get into the playoffs and anything can happen. Their motto isn't like the Yankees - "winning it all is all that matters". I'm starting to think that's the wrong approach. Just try and play as much crisp baseball during the regular season and understand that the playoffs are a crapshoot. Put yourself in the position to have good things happen and play fundamental baseball. I'm starting to see there's very little a team can control during a playoff series. A lot of strange things can happen.
Just think, what would happen if Boone and Flaherty didn't strikeout against Pavano in 2003 with a runner on 3rd? All the Yanks needed was a fly ball. How about ARod batting with Cairo on 3rd in the 2004 ALCS? All we needed was a fly ball. Or how about if Tony Clark's ground rule double had not gone into the stands, that would have plated another much needed run.
Now, if Girardi is really the tactician folks say he is, and Torre would listen to him . . . that would be a good fit. He at least seems to understand how to deal with young pitchers.
Well, at least he's aware of it.
so... are you letting rodriguez off the hook on this one?
Guys, I hate Morgan as much as the next guy. I can not stand listening to him when games are on ESPN, but OMG were his comments a devestating indictment of Torre.
Look, it's done with and Torre returns in '07. I guess, given the alternative of a Piniella-led Yankee team, I am happy about that. But it doesn't mean that we can't continue to question Torre's ineffectiveness over the last 3 postseasons.
Does anyone know where we can get a transcript of Morgan's comments? They are very damning!
I need to read it again. If someone here has ESON Insider, I think it might be available on the Dan Patrick Show page.
But don't use "fire" and "bullpen" in the same sentence.
26 What's that sound coming from the corner?
Great article on Moose there, BTW.
23 LOL!
20 No, but who says Torre actually listened to him?
31 With all these fires going on, yah think George would feel a little better now.
Joel Sherman in his excellent interview here on his "Making of a Dynasty" book (any more chance of getting more interviews with Sherman. Or even a sequel of "1997-2000" to rival the Venerable Bede?) says George often agrees with the last person he has talked to, even if it contradicts what he just said.
Did he actually say he spoke one-on-one with Steinbrenner? I don't actually see how the frame of references correlate, but unless he meant he spoke to him face-to-face, one could assume that he saw him on his way out the door to the Town Car; which is often reportedly how Steinbrenner conducts many his personal interviews with writers now.
That's kind of like what one comedian once said about welfare; he heard a lady saying 'ohhh, I could never swallow my pride and go on welfare...' "Swallow my pride?" he said, "Lady, I don't need to swallow my pride. I be swallowing steak, lobster..."
(cricket,cricket...)
I think it's time for Torre to go because he's bored with the regular season and even the playoffs. It shows in his managerial decisions and in the way the players approach the season and the playoffs.
I thought the decsions with Wang, Rivera, Sheffield, and ARod demonstrated that Torre did not take the ALDS seriously. Sheffield at first base seemed like an attempt to get in some fielding practice before the ALCS.
When you tell the world that you can pick your lineup out of a hat and that you won't need Mariano for more than one inning, you're setting yourself up for a fall.
Thank you Alex, for your skill as a writer, and for this forum.
Now, as far as Boss George goes ... I feel a teensy bit ashamed to admit I have him in my "Dead Pool" for this year. :-O He IS 76, but do we really know anything about his health issues aside from that fainting spell a few months ago?
It's funny how not many media outlets seem to be paying as much attention to the other NY team that is still working hard towards a WS ring like they are to all the rumors and stories of the Yankees.
I think every Yankee should read this and take a good, hard look in the mirror before next season.
and for more related statistical bliss, check with Mike's Baseball Rants
Stark has the good sense to label each section as 'useless information'.
Nice job.
:)
And if its not, makeashorterlink.com is.
Honestly, other than being interesting in a "useless info" kind of way, I think that article just enforces what so many of us have said: the current postseason is a crapshoot.
To put it another way: since the playoffs expanded to 4 teams in each league in '95, the team with the best record in MLB has won the Serious exactly once - 1998.
In the AL, the team with the best record has:
Won the Serious: 3 times out of 12 ('98, '99, '05)
Gotten to the Serious: 5 times out of 12 ('95, '98, '99, '03, '05)
Gotten to the ALCS: 8 times out of 12 ('95, '97, '98, '99, '01, '03, '04, '05)
Not advanced beyond the ALDS: 4 times out of 12 ('96, '00, '02, '06)
Early exits aside, to have a stretch run of division titles and playoff appearances such as they have is still nothing to sneeze at.
'BARRY LARKIN' anagrams to 'LIBRARY RANK', and everyone knows that three, the Babe's number, was the Venerable Bede's library rank at the, uh, monastic something library.
It's all revealed in The Game of the Rose, a well known gambling handbook by Umberto Eco.
... and discovered Joe Morgan calling the Mets/Cardinals game on the TV ....
A.) "Did you actually attend classes or was "Doctor" an honorary title?
B.) "I hear they could usea man like Joe Morgan in Wearmouth..."
C.) "Anything red just really pisses me off..."
D.) "Who am I?"
It's gonna be a loooooong off-season.
I often have problems with the analyses on Mike's Baseball Rants and other similar sites. I could comment there, but I'm not much interested in a conversation there; so you guys are the lucky ones.
It's a very precise analysis, but precise isn't necessarily the same as informative. First, if I read him correctly, he's correlating various predictors with the W-L% of series winners. But W-L% isn't a good measure of postseason success. Are we really interested in predicting whether a team wins 4-1 or 4-3? Or whether a team wins or loses the series?
SEcond - and this is true in many such analyses that I read - the whole concept of "statistical significance" seems to have gone out the window. The highest correlation he reports, .28, is almost certainly not significant; that means it's indistinguishable from random variation. There are no degrees of insignificance, and you can't analyze differences between those correlations as if they're meaningful.
I know that's a lot of pedantry. But it bothers me that so much analysis is presented as informative when it is, in fact, meaninglyss.
the whole concept of "statistical significance" seems to have gone out the window.
http://blog.nbx.com/2006/10/ny_yankees_liar.html
Great quote over at 'Bleeding Pinstripes', btw, in regards to the premature ending of our season - didn't know if anyone saw it:
"The Yankees and their fans are never eliminated as an afterthought. They are always taken down in a public execution. They are led to the gallows to the raucous cheers of the gathered crowds. They are read the charges of high crimes and misdemeanors against them, and they are always the same. Their misdemeanor? Gluttony. Their high crime? Nobility. And then they are very publicly hanged while the throngs roar with approval. The masses will not be denied their opportunity to watch the mighty fall. And that's okay. It's part of what we Yankee fans sign up for. Some of us make a choice. Some of us are born into it. But all of us wouldn't trade it for the world."
The "supergroup" ASIA had a song called "Sole Survivor" back in the mid 80s.
That's the song that has been stuck in MY head.
81 Just because yankees.com glosses over the early days doesn't mean everyone does. Glenn Stout's history of the team, IIRC, gets into detail about Big Bill Deveny and the 'illustrious' beginnings of the team. At least I know I've read the story about the origin of the interlocking NY somewhere else before . . .
86 No I was thinking Sole Survivor by Asia.
As well, I'm sure the original artist didn't even bother to copyright the emblem. If it's not copyrighted, it's fair game. Seems like Cleary is stretching his history a bit to paint the Yankees in a bad light. Just because one of the original owners had a bit of a shady past doesn't mean the organization as a whole was corrupt.
On a side note, "Gangs of New York" was a fantastic movie - I'll stop on it every time it comes on AMC...
So .28 would be measure of impact that winning % has on the likelihood of winning a series. Now whether this measure is significant or not can be assessed by doing additional analyses like a Wald test.
The author could have printed out the results of that if he used SPSS since it done automatically for each regressor.
So I may be wrong, but I don't think you can say that .28 is random until you see the additional analysis. It could have been significant after all.
It's the official team photo of the 1910 Highlanders. I wouldn't want to run into them in a dark alley.
yeah.
they would've made paul o'neil look like richard simmons.
I can only imagine what photos 100 years from now will look like...
BTW, the plane incident is in midtown, around 70th street. Looks like an accident (although that's what we heard on 9/11 as well), but be advised if you're traveling anywhere nearby.
I'm still not sure what the outcome measure is. First it sounds like he's using the playoff winning % of the team that wins the series, which would be an odd choice - but an relatively easy one to run stats on. But it's not very clear
On the serious note: 98 Latest report says crash 'does not appear' to be linked to terrorism.
It must be that this is a team that is not built to win division series after losing the first game. Now, what's it going to take to change that? More guys who hit to the opposite field? Expert bunters? Or, much more likely, players (like Cano) who bat L and field R? In any case, the first step is to trade A-Rod. I mean, fire Torre.
http://tinyurl.com/el2bf
101 Checking out the numbers for some of those guys on baseball-reference.com - wow. One of the pitchers gave up Babe Ruth's first MLB home run a few years later. Another died in 1982.
That's my best guess. Re-reading what he wrote, I am now more confused with what he did. How he set up the regression equation is crucial -- assuming he did regression analysis.
The guy writes for BP. So I assume he has a good grasp on stats. His explanation on the blog is lacking though. Maybe his writeup in BP will be more clear.
Let's go, anyone-but-the-Mets!!!
My own opinion of TLR went way down after what he said about Edmonds this year.
Mets fans would pretty much root against us no matter WHO our playoff opponent might be (the one exception MIGHT have been 1996, when we had Gooden and Straw), so I feel obliged to do the same.
Cory Lidle's plane!!! Holy F___ s___ !!!!
(too soon?)
I think LaRussa overmanages in the extreme. But it gets him hailed as a genius, and I've always had the feeling that he fosters that image. A lot of his moves look to me like they're more in the service of his genius than of the game. Three pitching changes in an inning make for the dullest possible brand of baseball, and I don't believe it really helps much. He overuses bunts and other "productive out" strategies - and gets more praise for the "aggressive" style of play.
OK, super-grim humor alert...that'll give George the headlines over the Mets for the next few days...
"Plane registered to Yankees' Cory Lidle."
It was just so bizarre I couldn't take it in at first. Like two worlds that aren't supposed to intersect. I thought for a moment that I was so obsessed with baseball that I was seeing things. But no...Torre has given a statement to the press, describing the plane.
how does he know that?
http://tinyurl.com/fldgu
They are saying the plane left NJ with Lidle and a flying instructor on board.
I am currently looking out my window towards the building a few blocks away. At first, I walked outside with all sorts of worries. I saw the building and saw the smoke. It didn't seem so bad. So my flashbacks of 9/11 subsided. I watched the fire engines go by and then I went back to work.
Things were slowly going back to normal here. The streets are blocked off with news crews everywhere. But now that I know who died in the crash, the silence seems very eerie.
A bad day for New York and the Yankees. They are saying he was in the plane by himself. Three people in the apartment died.
125 We'll give you a mulligan on that one...
Comment status: comments have been closed. Baseball Toaster is now out of business.