Baseball Toaster was unplugged on February 4, 2009.
The notion of Alex Rodriguez as an over-priced flop has been the single largest media story around the Yankees in years. Rodriguez does not go 5-5 in playoff games like Derek Jeter--he hasn't done much of anything substantial in his past two-and-a-half playoff series. Forget about what he has done in the past--his lifetime post-season numbers are far from embarassing--New York is a what-have-you-done-for-us-lately town. I hear Yankee fans everywhere hating on A Rod, and the papers fuel the flames. The back page of the Daily News today shows a close shot of A Rod after a strike out. He is looking down, a sullen expression on his face, as he lifts the helmet off his head in frustration. The headline reads "Awol." The New York tabloids relish humiliating Rodriguez when he does not play well, especially in the playoffs.
Even far-minded critics like my man Jake Luft are harping on Rodriguez's failure, which grows more glaring with each mediore game. Buster Olney has a great blog entry on the subject today over at ESPN. A Rod hit the ball well in Game One, but only had one hit to show for it. He whiffed three times in Game Two. The first and lasat K you have to give to Verlander and Zumaya, the other two at-bats are on Rodriguez.
But New York's obsession with hating Rodiriguez says more about Nee Yorkers themselves, and the nature of the tabloid competition here, than it necessarily does about Rodriguez himself. (Just like ovation Torii Hunter got from Twins' fans after mis-playing a ball into an inside-the-park home run said something about Minniesota fans. I know Hunter is different to them than A Rod is to Yankee fans, I'm just saying. ) Not that A Rod doesn't contribute to the matter but the resentment that people express says more about what they demand from the highest-paid player: nothing short of being the absolute best in every way. They feel entitled to take the guy down if he doesn't match their expectations.
It's not that Yankee fans don't want him to do well. They do want to see him succeed. He got a bonafide ovation as he walked to the plate in his first at bat of the series. But when he fails the fans turn on him quickly and without mercy. He reminds us of our own failures, our own inability to meet certain "clutch" situations all the time in our own lives. Not only that, he confirms our worst fears about ourselves--that we won't do well. Watch a Rodriguez at-bat with a group of Yankee fans and most of them expect him to fail, and go so far as to root against him. It's a weird kind of maschochistic thing, I don't get it.
I heard two construction workers talking about the Yanks in the local deli this morning and their entire riff on A Rod was what a bum he was for making all that money. "If you or I performed like that in our jobs, Frankie, we'd be out of jobs, am I right?"
"And then he sits there and takes pitches. How do you take pitches."
"They teach you in little league you gotta swing the bat, right?"
"I can't believe a guy gets paid all that money to leave the bat on his shoulder."
And so forth. You've heard it all. It's not as if Rodriguez has not have some big hits as a Yankee--he has. But he has to have them in the playoffs. Now. He's the only star player in baseball whose entire season is judged almost exclusively by how he does in the playoffs. 120 RBI? Should have been 148. Get bent. What have you done for me lately?
It is a very real media story and while we're all sick of it but it could get the guy run out of town if he fails and the team bows out early. That would be a shame because headcase or not, after three years in New York, Rodriguez is probably the best third baseman in Yankee history, and that's pretty awesome. He's not Nettles with the glove by a long stretch, but he's a much better hitter. Better base runner, better player. But a bigger mystery. When the game looks hard for a player, when he's a scrappy guy like Wally Backman or David Eckstein, fans identify them with and give them a pass. It's the Wayne Cherbet syndrome, you know what I mean? The game is hard for A Rod too, even though he's supremely gifted. It's just difficult in a different way, a way people can't relate to or identify with. They just see that he's good looking and very rich and he's strikes out three times in a playoff game.
But now it's time for Mr. Rodriguez to meet our old pal, the Gambler Kenny Rogers. If you don't get at least two hits tonight, it's only gunna get worse tomorrow, kid. So as Don Corelone said to Johnny Fontaine, "You can act like a MAN! (slap) What's the matter with you?" Go get 'em, bro, leave it all out on the field and kick some ass. Remember, the Gambler is a bigger headcase than you. Doubles in the gap, dude, doubles in the gap. The story won't go away until you come through. Make it happen.
Let's Go Yan-Kees!
Looking at the current A's roster, I think Barry Zito and Nick Swisher would the the two players most likely to succeed in New York. The player most likely to fail would be Eric Chavez.
I could turn a blind eye to the national media acting the way they do, but it's sickened me the way the local press and "fans" have treated him. I'm afraid he's going to be run out of town. Honestly, if I were him I wouldn't want to play here anymore.
This is what they're saying on WEEI, the big sports talk station.
(Let's all take a moment to appreciate the fact that Boston radio jocks are discussing the Yankees alone in October.)
All I know is, if I were Alex Rodriguez, I would have to quietly wish for a trade.
Yes, NY is the "big stage" and everything, but I'd just want to turn to everyone who has been riding me, flip them the bird, go someplace more laidback and just play baseball again.
Turn the page.
I wish that I actually heard the "logic" of the arguments on the radio, but I'm just getting this discussion topic 2nd hand.
But wouldn't you want out?
Understood. Point noted. However, the microscope that this man is under is unlike anything I've ever seen. If it were a few headlines here and there with a few boos and "you stink"s peppered in there, I'd probably gut it out, too. Part of plaing in NY.
...But this is a different animal.
I personally wouldn't be able to handle the "Pay-Rod" treatment.
(I have never been a big backer of his, but now I'm just starting to feel bad for the guy.)
...what is is about Chavez, "false front or fake bravado or lack of self-esteem", that you think would cause him to fail in N.Y.?
It's more likely that he'd approve of a trade if the Yankees won the World Series.
Hit a walkoff in game seven of the World Series and stop halfway to home. Pull out a cell phone and get Cashman and Boras on the phone: "I'm not touching home until you trade me to the Mets."
So unless Cashmoney is able to pull off a Pujols for A-Rod swap, it doesn't matter how bad the media gets, the Yanks have got to keep A-Rod. Thus, I keep praying that A-Rod will just hit like he can and shut everyone the heck up.
As for the NY "fans":
There's definitely a sadistic streak in the A-Rod hate, an ugly mob mentality reminiscent of the Roman Colisseum days, when people cheered watching people being devoured by lions. It's a nasty, primal reaction to his failure -- as it reflects on them.
I think another key ingredient is that New Yorkers love to confront, and love to be right. Remember how Marissa Tomei's and Joe Pesci's characters went at it in "My Cousin Vinny?" That was such a NY thing, and what easier way to be right, and win an argument than to predict failure in baseball?
"Watch this, he's gunna choke." Well, very often the person who predicts this is going to be correct, no matter who is at the plate, no matter how many runners are on.
1 Ken, I think you're onto something there. I just read the classic SI piece from 1986 that Alex linked to in his previous post: Mattingly, Boggs, and Ted Williams talking hitting.
It reminded me why it's so easy to love players like Mattingly.
It's their simple, workman approach to the game.
A-Rod's hardworking, but he's far from simple. He's complicated.
Reading the SI piece, I imagined A-Rod talking shop with the gruff, condescending Ted Williams.
As talented a hitter as Rodriguez is, I don't imagine he would stand his ground with Williams.
Ted Williams said to Mattingly, "You don't really realize what you're doing..."
Mattingly: "I think I realize what I'm doing..."
Williams: "What you're saying is that you like to swing down on the ball..."
Mattingly: "I didn't say that. I just said I like to get backspin on he ball."
See, I imagine A-Rod with all his polite respect for the game, as great a hitter as he is himself, wouldn't riff with a legend of Ted Williams stature like that. I imagine he would withdraw from the conversation, or say something awkward about his looks or his paycheck.
NYers like fighters. They want to see A-Rod hold his ground. They want him stand up for himself, damnit, and hit the ball.
As much as I feel that way, he doesn't have to prove anything to me, and I'd never boo him. Losing him would be a shame for the Yanks, and a disgrace to NY.
It really does seem like many of the Yankee fans/media want him to fail, other wise why would they keep booing when they know it doesn't help and probably causes more damage instead. Yeah they cheer him on occasion...but if Alex's persona is faux then those cheers are even more so as they turn to boos the minute he gets an out. And to be honest the Yankees themselves don't help (well the Boss doesn't he's latest comment just added fuel to the fire) nor did the SI cover help. Every time hear the comments Alex just needs to relax and he'll be fine, then he gets thrown under bus again or right back into the spotlight (the batter order change). It just never stops....heck OJ gets better treatment in the media than Alex and the later has never done anything wrong.
1) When he swings through a pitch, it's not like Sheffield or Ortiz, a huge cut that would inspire a fan to imagine "he just missed that. If he made contact, see ya!" Arod's homers often look like fly outs and yet travel a hundred feet further than Sheff's bombs. His swing is very hard for a casual fan to appreciate.
2) When guessing with two strikes, you whiff looking. A lot. I would never guess with two strikes because I thought whiffing looking was the ultimate sin, and many fans believe this as well. But tt's not the worst thing you can do. Grounding into a doubleplay is worse. But with two strikes, two outs and the bases juiced, going down looking is the worst thing you can do and Arod never adjusts in these situations. Either out of stubborness or lack of ability. As much I despise the haters, I think this is a valid complaint.
A guess hitter with a easy does it swing just looks pathetic when he's not hitting. Simple as that. Sheffield, Giambi, Ortiz, Reggie, those guys can suck too, they just look a lot better while doing it.
i would never take manny ramirez. not under any circumstances that my warped, demented mind can muster.
he's lazy. he sits it out if there's nothing for him to gain...
yes, he'll be a HOFer.
yes, he can hit the snot out of a baseball.
at least rodriguez is trying. (if anything, he's trying too hard.)
(i detest manny ramirez.)
And you could always move Sheffield back to his original position at 3B. ;-)
Eight years ago the Yankees won 114 games with a balanced attack, to which Scott Brosius was central...numbers be damned.
"I hit solid, with an accelerated bat head."
As for Chavez, he is not a person with a lot of self-esteem. Early in his career, he had a lot of false bravado, too. He's dropped that quite a bit as he's matured, but he's still at his core a fairly insecure person.
Add in that A-Rod is 31 (32 next July) and Manny is 34 (35 next May), and its no deal.
Whatever you think of BP's PECOTA system, it estimates Manny to be worth 18 wins above replacement over the next 5 years - and A-Rod to be worth 37.2.
Now what guys like Jeter say often go directly to the airwaves. I can't imagine him not telling the media their being absurd (I think I would every time one of these writers stuck a mike in my face), but none of them do it.
Besides, does anyone really think Alex would somehow 'thrive' in an environment that has the potential to be even MORE hostile? At least this town has two teams to focus on.
First time Rodriguez went Oh-fer in a playoff game in a Sox uniform, out would come the 'purse' Photoshops again...
A-Rod WAS traded for a pretty decent player in Alfonso Soriano.
But I'm not convinced there's no way we couldn't make a trade that would help the franchise. Even if we only get 80 cents on the dollar in return, 80 cents worth of pitching could benefit us.
I think there are enough bats in this lineup that we could still score plenty of runs in the future. And with Moose and Unit old and getting older, Pavano a total question mark, and Wright and Lidle being Wright and Lidle, we could use a young starter or two, someone to join Wang and Hughes and, hopefully, Matzusaka.
25 Yes, and the Yanks suffered for the next 5 years at third base because they overvalued Brosius's fluke-year contribution in '98. Imagine if the Yanks had held on to Mike Lowell instead of trading him.
Your argument rings hollow. The Yanks also won 114 games in '98 with a 'balanced attack' that included Posada riding the bench half the time and Chad Curtis as the primary LF. So then, by your argument, the Yanks should trade Matsui and Posada haste post haste for young pitching - numbers be damned, right? - to get back to having a 'balanced attack' on offense and shore up the pitching staff. That way the Yanks can win 115 games next year.
excellent point.
35
if you could land a kazmir-type pitcher and a young, decent bat, i'd do it.
you'd slash payroll (one of cashman's admitted goals for this offseason).
also, as stated above, this lineup can drive in runs. with cairo playing in place of rodriguez, it would still be one of the best lineups in baseball.
35 You can't ignore the fact that predicting the future of a pitcher's career is very hard because of the specter of arm problems. What looks to be a gain of 80 cents on the dollar today when it involves pitching, especially young pitching, may turn out to be a 10 cents on the dollar move. Or worse.
That's why those trades never work. The consistentency that inner circle Hall of Famers display is one of the things that makes them so rare. And its even rarer among the HOF pitchers than it is among the hitters.
Accurately predicting the future performance of a hitter, especially one like A-Rod, is far easier and involves far less risk than accurately predicting the future of a pitcher, especially a young pitcher.
They say Game 3 is the most important game of every 5-Game series, and I still hold that the Yanks lost last year because Johnson spit the bit in Game 3. Of course he has a history of poor division series performances. Here's hoping he overcomes that tonight. He was nails against the Tigers in two starts during the year.
Go Yanks and go Alex for doing such great work with the full weight of the Banter on his shoulders!
That's the old "even if Bubba plays CF all year next year, the Yanks will still score lots of runs." It wasn't true when I made that argument last year and it won't be true anytime in the future.
Especially because you can't assume the Yanks will continue to score as many runs as they have this year with a lineup that will be 1 year older across the board. Older hitters tend to decline, not improve. The only regular in the lineup under 30 is Cano - Melky is not going to be an everyday player next year unless there's another big injury.
34 Diana, I loved Soriano - even named my pet bird after him - but A-Rod is a Hall of Famer, and Soriano isn't. Not even close. The Rangers got housed on that one, big time.
Over the last 3 years, Rodriguez has hit .299/.396/.549. He's averaged 116 R, 40 HR, 119 RBI, 87 BB, 21 SB, 5 CS. The Yankees are paying him $16 million.
Now tell me again how you're going to replace 4 more years of that? With Miguel Cairo?
Oh ... I DO realize the Rangers weren't getting equal value on the A-Rod/Sori deal, but it also wasn't like they got a stiff. Sori DID have value, especially as a 2nd baseman (albeit a poor-fielding one).
Hmmm ... could Sori end up in the Boston outfield next year?
Please tell me that you and I, Sliced, and a few others are not the only A-Rod supporters left.
16 I can't go near sports outlets of any kind. If they aren't discussing A-Rod, they're discussing TO. I don't know which is worse.
However, those of us fortunate enough to watch him play every day will argue 'til the cows come home about how god-like the Captain can be on a day-to-day basis.
That relay to home (to get the less talented Giambi) in 2001 only shows up as 9-6-2 in the box score, and the dive in the stands in July 2004 is simply '6u' (or however you choose to score).
That's why I simply can't go by the numbers. They may tell a lot, but they don't tell everything.
i didn't mean to imply that miggy could "replace" rodriguez.
i was only stating that if rodriguez was removed from the lineup, and someone of cairo's ability was inserted, the lineup would still be better than many other lineups in MLB.
(i stand by that statement.)
my other point was made more articulately in post #47 by smingers.
44 Buena serra, Cliff! Enjoy the rest of your honeymoon, get home safe, and take us through the ALCS already, would ya? Ciao!
Go Yanks!
48 Excellent points, Diana. I bet Sori ends up with the Mets next year, maybe even at second base. Especially if the Mets don't win the Serious this year. Omar will pony up, no doubt.
Besides, Jeter is a very unusual case. That same sort of reasoning is used to argue that Miguel Cairo is really much more valuable than his stats (he's not).
re: A-Rod or T.O. on the tube all the time
just another sign on the decline of Western Civilization
"Inside the Actor's Studio" welcomed Teri Hatcher (!) a couple of weeks ago ...
Teri Hatcher!?????
The "intelligent" sports fan doesn't care (or understands better) the deal with T.O. and A-Rod, but the networks aim for the lowest common denominator sports "fan".
Look at what a wasteland ESPN has become ...
(but I digress) :-(
Did you see the latest "People" magazine cover?
I don't have it in front of me, with the exact headlines, but these are the stories that share the cover:
Amish School Massacre, Anna Nicole Smith's Surprise Wedding (to her lawyer), Eva Longoria & Tony Parker's Romance On The Rocks?
Just "People" giving the people what they want I suppose.
http://tinyurl.com/j3j59
Denise Richards, maybe.
"Chi è Karim Garcia?"
He was for a short period of time, but obviously you have to maintain that value by delivering when you're needed.
Jeter's stats are hardly pedestrian, so maybe he was a bad example. How about Manny Ramirez vs. Paul O'Neill? ;-)
As for A-Rod's performance I'd like to see him focus on agressive baserunning and generating more doubles on his own. A-Rod is almost too strong for his own good. I see him a bit like Tiger Woods when he was struggling with accuracy with his driver early in his career. Woods finally said screw it and went for accuracy and then began to reliably kill the field. If A-Rod stopped worrying about his power numbers I actually think his hitting would improve with 40+ doubles, 30+ HR, and around .310. The recent SI piece on A-Rod suggested other talented players think he guesses too much. Maybe he should take a page of Vlad Guerrero's book and grip it and rip it.
In any case, I'm rooting for A-Rod.
Before that, all she was good for was getting naked in bad B movies.
Not a great career by any stretch, but you gotta admire his heart for pitching with the arm/shoulder problems he's had this year.
I don't think it's ALL about the 'highest-paid-player' thing. I just think the we (Yank fans, New Yorkers, Americans, Human Beings) just expect the best performers to, well, be able to perform on the biggest, brightest stage.
Sure, a guy can really bring down the house and leave them cheering on some off-off broadway play (mid-season games vs. non-contenders), but if he makes it to the Great White Way (post-season) and forgets his lines... well, you can't help but feel disappointed and cheated.
Lots of people want to bring up the 2004 ALDS vs. Twins as proof that A-Rod can perform on the big stage. At the time it was BIG. But as the seasons pass into memory and the more I think about it, his BIG play was scoring from third on a passed ball. Hell, Luis Sojo could have played that role.
Torre can't hide him anywhere in this line-up or on this stage. He needs to bat him clean-up, where he rightfully belongs. So that way (shine or fail) everybody will know for sure.
Lets' go Yankees! Let's go A-rod!
Which gives me a great setup: save $13 million. Just say no to Sheff.
I was watching some clips of Matsuzaka on youtube and who did I spy but your buddy and mine, Karim Garcia.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLAgxBHWNeM
He's in there at about 1:26.
Garcia is everywhere
Garcia is everything
Garcia is everybody
Garcia is still the King
Now, I'm not so sure. I think Ken's on to something. NY fans can sense self-doubt, and they hate it. I don't think he'll ever be accepted in NY. Or get out of the shadow of Derek Jeter. Other players might not mind, but I think he does. Why put up with all this crap? I bet they'd love him in LA.
And he could be making our lives difficult for years to come there. :-P
http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/B10060NYA2004.htm
http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/B10090MIN2004.htm
Verlander and Zumaya made some unhittable pitches to A-Rod in Game 2. (Why is it that pitchers always seem to be sharper against A-Rod when he's "slumping"? I swear there were games in mid-August where a pitcher would throw 6 straight balls, then A-Rod would come up and the first two pitches would be on the black.) Kenny Rogers doesn't have that kind of stuff, so God willing, he'll have some chances tonight.
If only one or both of those 2 line drives he hit in Game 1 had fallen for a hit, maybe we're not talking about this right now.
"Their lineup is just going to be what the PlayStation 3 comes out with," Rogers said. "That's the lineup that's going to be there."
I saw it in more than one story, so I don't think it's a misquote. I am a moderate gamer, and will probably get the PS3 at some point, but what the hell do the PS3 launch titles have to do with the Yanks' lineup? I'm missing that connection...
Bradley's HR was a bomb to dead CF.
Hunters was a rocket.
"Ev'ry gambler knows that the secret to survivin'
Is knowin' what to throw away and knowing what to keep.
'Cause ev'ry hand's a winner and ev'ry hand's a loser,
And the best that you can hope for is to die in your sleep."
Hopefully the best he can hope for tonight is only to give up 7 runs in 6 innings...
Johnny Damon CF
Derek Jeter SS
Bobby Abreu RF
Alex Rodriguez 3B
Jason Giambi 1B
Hideki Matsui LF
Jorge Posada C
Robinson Cano 2B
Bernie Williams DH
We should remember that the most prolific HR hitter, by age, left a great hiiters park to play in the worst park in the majors, for a power righty gap/straight away hitter.
We should remember that ARod chose a team with Derek Jeter, the very friend he severely alienated, and who's shadow he would live in.
ARod came here to win, and to be a part of sport's most storied teams. He wants to win more then we want him to win.
The media can be forgiven, simply because they are lazy vultures looking for the cheapest, easiest story possible. How much do you need to know abount baseball, to write an article ragging ARod?
But what do the fans do? Pile on, to the extent that ARod may not renew his contract with us. He could look past the media if he could count on team and fan support.
Personally, I know how totally discusted I am with this mob mentality. It is unprecidented, and makes even yellow journalism look bad. ARod actually takes more shit then Bonds (or Bin Ladin). I'm surprised he's still standing.
When you feel sorry for one the best and riches (and good looking too) players in history, you know he must be taking a LOT of shit.
I also think Jeter, especially as team captain, should have blasted the media and fans for ARod's treatment. He could have even threatened the media with a team wide 'media blackballing'. However, we know that like an elephant, Jetes never forgets. But he has hurt the team by remaining silent.
I hope ARod stays with the team and finishes his career as a Yankee... and that a whole lot of fans and writers are traded (to Siberia).
Meanwhile, I say again for the 400th time, "Boy, I sure am glad the Yankees managed to avoid the Twins..."
100 I'm glad to see Bernie in the lineup, it's too bad it couldn't have worked out for Rogers to start game 2... Bernie would have electrified the stadium yesterday, and from the discussion on waswatching.com, it looks like the stadium could have used a few volts yesterday.
I wish nothing but pure, unadultered, destruction of Mr. Rogers. Er, that came out wrong...
what say you?
Damon CF
Jeter SS
Abreu RF
ARod 3B
Giambi 1B
Posada C
Godzilla LF
Bernie DH
Cairo 2B
Hmmm, Torre worried about Cano?
Listen A-Rod got out of Texas because he desperately wanted to win. He was happily willing to play short stop for the Red Sox even if that meant shoving Nomar out. The Yankees bailed A-Rod's butt out by giving him a chance to play 3rd in NY. A-Rod did what was in his best interest and there is nothing wrong with that so please me a break and stop making him out to be this sacrificing martyr because he isn't one. He is a guy who saw his chance to win dissipating and because of his talent found a way out. Even with all the media and fan pressure on him, A-Rod should be waking up every day thankful that he is a Yankee and I bet he does. He is a smart guy who appreciates his life.
Rally time for the Twins!
On the other hand, Cano's looked awful at the plate. From a "put the best team on the field" standpoint, it would be an awful move. From a "shake things up" standpoint and from a "go with the gut" standpoint, I think it's a defensible change. I bow to the four rings, for once.
Meanwhile, guy playing taps behind homeplate in Oakland... awesome.
Yesterday was just one game, and not the end of the world. As I mentioned in the previous thread, I think the Yankees still have the edge with the teams playing 4 games in 4 days and our lineup that just wears down pitchers. Zumaya hasn't piched in back-to-back games very often this year, and when he has, he has been vulnerable (7 G, 7 IP, 4 ER, 7 H, 3 BB). Say what you will about Moose, but at least he gave us 7 innings, so our pen (for better or worse) is still fresh.
Let's-Go, Yan-kees!
Johnny Damon CF
Derek Jeter SS
Bobby Abreu RF
Alex Rodriguez 3B
Jason Giambi 1B
Jorge Posada C
Hideki Matsui LF
Bernie Williams DH
Robinson Cano 2B
Also, while I agree that Jeter could have done more on the field and/or in front of the cameras to show a little support, he wisely never told the fans what to do. He continually said that fans can boo or cheer however they like, and he is right.
The media are lazy vultures, but let's not give them a pass. They too deserve to be criticized since it is certainly in their power to take a stand and support ARod... or criticize the fans. Wouldn't that make for more intriguing news?
Damon CF: 15 for 49, 2 hr, 5 k; .306/.382/.449
Jeter SS: 8 for 20, 1 hr, 3 k; .400/.520/.600
Abreu RF: 1 for 5, 2 k; .200/.200/.200
ARod 3B: 10 for 19, 5 hr, 2 k; .526/.625/1.421
Giambi 1B: 10 for 23, 4 hr, 2 k; .435/.567/1.000
Posada C: 8 for 16, 2 hr, 0 k; .500/.500/1.063
Godzilla LF: 2 for 3, 1 hr; .667/.667/1.667
Bernie DH: 12 for 34, 2 hr, 2 k; .353/.421/.588
Cairo 2B: 4 for 12, 1 k; .333/.429/.333
(Cano: no career PA)
I really don't care how much better or worse A-Rod does than anyone else. He just wants to be thought of as another player on the team, and I'll be glad to root for him equally in that respect. Sure he's had a bad first 2 games, but so has Sheff and Cano. The point and beauty of this lineup is to have everyone who's hot balance out everyone who's slumping. That doesn't happen all the time (like yesterday), but hopefully we get the opposite of that today.
Let the onslaught begin! Let's go Yanks!
YES the TV network is still saying it's Cano, not Cairo.
They must have mixed up Cairo and Cano again. LOL!
I wrote my thoughts on A-Rod just after the game yesterday. Check it out at COH if you haven't been there already.
I think RJ is going to be very good today, and the bats are going to do their typical work behind him. Yankees 9, Tigers 5
Cap'n Double!
That's right, Morgan, it must KILL you to see Jeter get hits.
Let's go He Who Shall Remain Nameless!
Was that pitch a foot outside? (The one A-Rod hit.)
Hey, A-Rod put the ball in play! Baby steps!
That's the Selig legacy. Juiced balls. Juiced guns. Juiced players.
Now let's go get us some of them thar runs.
205 The strike zone is all over the place again tonight.
Meanwhile, I'm much too wrapped up in every pitch to last 9 innings ... please start the blow-out now, Yanks.
Still, you can't inflate the break on the slider with a radar gun, and Randy's got a good one tonight. If this continues, perhaps all pregnant women who get epidurals should consider pitching...
LET'S GO YAN-KEES!
Um. What happened to working the count?
Seriously, if we don't score at least 6 runs in 4 innings off him, this truly is the biggest joke team ever...
Posada's: incredibly high
That single: Amazing.
Still, I would be satisfied with a thoroughly undeserved win.
Oh, was that Morgan?
same here...this series should not be this damn close....
Chill.
It's baseball.
All kinds of sh|t happens. Groove to it, drink it in.
I never want to see Randy Johnson's old ass again.
too much time, money and energy on this team for Yankees to lose to this joke of a team
But this doesn't feel like Bronx Banter. Somebody drink something.
Way ahead of you.
GO AWAY RANDY JOHNSON.
shit
Horrible inning, and obviously he doesn't have the good stuff, but he really isn't getting hit hard.
Lidle, I dunno. I dunno.
I hope the feed goes out for his hall of fame ceremony.
I'll come back when the Yanks have the lead.
Grrrrrr
Bklyn,
I don't loke the looks of this.
I hate hate hate our pitching staff.
Let's go. Baserunners. No dingers for now.
I wish I shared your optimism. I'll try.
Does Joe have the balls to bench Arod if he is hitless tonight?
STFU! There's a game going on!
fucking double play
Er, that's ok Derek, you'll get 'em next time.
Randy Johnson stop giving up hits.
I'll work on that, I really will try.
All that's left is for someone to rant about how great doing nothing against a starter is if it means you can get to the Detroit bullpen.
the damn is about to burst with Johnson and they are going to knock him into Kevin Brown land....They cannot him fucking Kenny Rogers at all.....this is serious shit
the damn is about to burst with Johnson and they are going to knock him into Kevin Brown land....They cannot hit fucking Kenny Rogers at all.....this is serious shit as the Tigers pen looked filthy yesterday
One hit per inning: not enough. At least they have to be all in the same inning!
And where are my walks? I want my walks!
Next inning, Donuts has to lead off with a walk.
I just think you have to go with the lineup that gives you the best chance to win, and Sheffield at 3B, and Melky or Bernie at DH gives us the best chance, in my opinion anyway.
What's happened to Bronx Banter? This place has turned into a Sons of Sam Horn game thread.
I'm in Hell./
HE'S GOT GOOD STUFF! Thanks Joe. I hate that term. Stuff just means "He's throwing the ball hard with no regard for location or movement."
I'll take that over Arod's .100 BA over the last 12 PS games anyday. At least Sheffield will put the ball in play hard somewhere.
Good recovery, Unit.
C'mon, Bobbie
Unreal.
429 Hah! Opposite of the usual Yankee approach. But I think you're right. Although Jones and Zumaya threw 20 pitches each last night.
Okay,the Batter Who Shall Not Be Named, do something. For god's sake, do something.
More patience against Rogers. Know when to hold'em, guys.
I might take that homer now.
Scrap the Division series or make it seven games. This is crap.
So was that fly.
Have more faith, folks. The Yankees rally and win as long as RJ doesn't give up any more runs.
a 200 million dollar joke.
And here comes Randy fucking Johnson again.
it never ends.
Oh right, those were worse.
They have Sterling, and we have Selig, that's it, that's all.
I can hear it already, Johnson will give up 4 runs and we'll blame him for the loss. Just like Moose got blamed yesterday.
Wake the guys up JOE! They look like they're running late for dinner reserveations.
We need to get on a roll, I know!
If that happens, I'll buy a lottery ticket tomorrow. He has about as much of a chance of doing that as I do of winning 50 million dollars.
it is criminal that Rogers has gone 4 against a lineup that hits .371 against him and given he propensity to need Depends when he gets handed the ball in Oct.
Apparently we're built for April through September.
Jesus, are they auditioning Harwell for a freakin' job? How many times can we talk about TWO FREAKIN' TIGERS CHAMPIONSHIPS?
I still think they have a great shot at today's game. But I'm excited to see Wright tomorrow. I can't believe I'm saying that, but it's true!
Giambi three run homer.
When Joe Stunnegen put together a streak of 45 consecutive innings pitched with a rooster by his side....
Posada grand slam.
Billy Kiplington ate tacks while batting....
Jeter steals home....
If there's ever a reason to get yourself tossed, as a manager or a player, it's on calls like that.
Mello Yello Joe won't even get his fat ass off the bench.
now THAT was funny
Matsui! Now, can we at least get him to fucking third base! We look like the fucking Twins out there.
Nice, Godzilla. Actually thought Monroe caught that one; can't see squat out there..
Isn't there a rule against a white background on an outfield fence?
Can't upset the apple cart. Joe won't do that. No balls.
Damn it, Bernie.
Jest missed.
LOL - what else would they be saying?
It's the same Kenny Rogers, Joe.
The same guy who "didn't give in" when he walked in the winning run pitching for the Mets.
Are you watching this game on TV?
Regardless of what Rogers has done in the past, he is making some awesome pitches... especially on strike 3.
RJ actually has good stuff. He's looking very fluid. They haven't exactly been pounding him. All singles, many ground balls.
If Rogers keeps this up for 7, we could be in trouble.
(Ack... Bernie kills a rally on ball 4)
But I think we're gonna get him. He can't keep it up.
Finger up, Kenny.
There's always Todd Jones. Just keep it a save situation.
blaaaa....but THIS pitching should not be beating THIS hitting....
I refuse to accept, yet again, that the pitcher against our amazing lineup is making amazing pitches. This is 100% on our lineup. Simply infuriating...
Maybe when the ask Joe Torre next inning, they can ask WHY THE F WE AREN'T HITTING, AGAIN!!
0 for 12 with runners on.
Have not advanced a runner in 10 innings. The AAA team would kick their ass right now.
There is no god.
We asked for Detroit, we got them.
We asked for Rogers, we got him.
Karma's a f*ckin bitch.
I agree. Bye Moose, bye Sheff, trade Arod and eat the salary, trade every god damn player but Damon, Jete, Giambi, Posada, and MO.
(its not working)
you are correct...this team also has a smell...like a fucking cadaver left out in the sun
Since then, crap.
Cano yes. I don't want a single player not brought up through our system older that 30 on this team next year. If we haadn't traded away every god damn pitcher we've had in the last 5 years, and brought up younsters to the majors like every other fucking team in the league, we might not have to depend on Johnson, Mussina, and Wright! And now, we get a good start from a geriatric, and our lineup has turned into the KC Royals.
Good thing we're building a new stadium to put a new wax job on this Ford Pinto of a team.
tomorrow: 5-4, tigers. Farnsworth will give up a 2 run homer in the 8th for the tigers to take the lead.
MVP: granderson
(of course I hope I'm dead wrong...)
Do it now.
LET'S GO YAN-KEES!
But I do think this Yankees team is looking too much like the ones of years past. Too many old sluggers. Not enough pitching and defense.
Remember the beginning of the season, when we couldn't win a game unless we scored 9 runs?
GO YANKEES! GO YANKEES!!!!!!!!!
Come on Jete, come on Bobby, come on PR Man!
well here comes about $45m per year up this inning..
I know that's supposed to only be a no-hitter type thing, but any port in a storm, right?
Clutch HBP.
I'd really like to get the UMP to check Kenny's glove, this is just not realistic from Rogers.
I've been saying that since the 3rd. So much for that small ball evryone seems to hate so much.
they have owned him and beat him 7 straight times and hit .371 against him.....this is a joke...
I'd love to think we can win tomorrow and Sunday, but this team hasn't given me the slightest reason to believe they even want to.
none of those teams have had Wright go 5 strong innings for them
They should face the fact that they're not hitting like a team on the verge of a big rally, and go for 1 run.
why?
why?
why?
I hate baseball.... but I love it.
Well, Showalter and Girardi both looking for jobs next season. At least we can get one of them. If we lose and George keeps Joe, I am not paying for the MLB package just to watch this shit again. Anyone, Magilla Gorilla, Mr. Maggoo, Ozzie Guillen. Give me anyone wh can get someone fired up.
Great, we are going to lose playing solid defense and only giving up 3 runs. Blow me 1-9, blow my fucking ass!
Are you kidding me? Joe Torre? Mr. starting Kevin Brown in game 7. Joe is incapable of starting Wang tommorrow, and that my friends, is why he needs to hit the highway.
It's not exactly impossible. Stranger things have happened.
Give up signing free agent bats, and go after minor league pitching. Until you do that, this story is going to continue to repeat year after year.
Do you think if the voters had known the beast they were about to unleash, they never would've selected JM for the Hall?
ha ha ha
juuust missed by bernie, just missed by jeter and then juust missed by arod
I feel like crying right now.
left him in one batter too long.
nice optimism....if the Yanks can win tomorrow they will win it at home...
But and it is a BIG BUT...they are probably going to need to advance a runner in order to win two games....
nice optimism....if the Yanks can win tomorrow they will win it at home...
But and it is a BIG BUT...they are probably going to need to advance a runner in order to win two games....
nice optimism....if the Yanks can win tomorrow they will win it at home...
But and it is a BIG BUT...they are probably going to need to advance a runner in order to win two games....
Trade them all, fuck, trade fucking Derek Jeter for all I care at this point.
Paul O'Neill, Scott Broscuis and Tino Martinez, Karim Garcia, Juan Rivera, Joe Girardi, Chuck Knoblauch can score, but these guys cannot? Fuck all of them.
you are right...
it really is 4 guys...a couple of young guys who you cannot blame and then a whole lot of other suspects in October
782 You have got to be the BIGGEST quitter on this blog evah. The only thing left for you to do is quit being a Yankee fan.
That's pretty damn good for a 1-2-3.
Unit = Kevin Brown with less rancor towards his teammates
I knew he was onto something....I will get killed for this but Mo although still the best has not been pre-2001 Mo
You know what Einstein said about the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting to get a different result.
They score 3 runs in two days against the Tigers, and I'M the quitter. Look to the 1-9 lineup, and there you will find the quitters, not this guy.
Yay, Jorge!
With those guys filling slots (and almost $40 mil in salary, depending on Moose's deal), they'll be less agressive getting FA pitchers like Zito and Matsuzaka.
Given the choice of the two, I can see them going for Zito because he's a known quantity. Nothing against Zito, but Matsuzaka looks like a beast.
Another lead-off double. Only now, because it's the seventh, any whiff of a rally will bring out Zumaya.
It's because I fucking care that I get so upset when I stare at bush league bullshit like this. I wan't them to win as badly as you do!
Post season games are often pitchers' duels. They have to be able to win those.
Torre says that it's pitching and defense that wins championships, but that's not how he operates. At least, it hasn't been lately.
When you're down 5 runs with 9 outs to go, no outs are productive. Do these ass-clowns not understand basic concepts of baseball?
three cold days at the plate and thanks for coming....
And we've let nearly every player go that Michaels recommended keeping since then.
Over the regular season with depth we're pretty nearly guaranteed a playoff spot--but the post-season is different; without a really strong front 3 starters and 3 guys in the pen, you're gonna have a tough time.
809 When I listed Zito, Hughes, Wang, I thought about adding Pavano, but after September, I don't really see him on the Yanks next year. Yes, healthy Pavano would be good, but I think he's violated the clubhouse code of conduct so to speak. He's done with the Yanks unless he wants to go through next season as a pariah on the team.
... in terms of depth in the starting rotation.
I agree that Pavano was the beneficiary of great defense in a pitcher's park in Florida, but Pavano still would have been an asset for the Yanks.
What makes this even more sickening is that the Mets will win the series now...
AFter that it is . . .?
well said!
And is anyone up in the Tigers bullpen? Zumaya can't pitch again today, can he?
his stupidity has reached a new level.
he also misquoted yogi berra.
DIAF, Joe Morgan.
Jeez, now I feel dirty. He's a grandfather.
I honestly think George is done spending. I don't foresee any big off-season signings. If you can't wn with what he's given us the last two years, what can you win with? And I think George is beginning to get that. I see Cashman and Torre fired, and other guys brought in. Not to say that it's right, but that's what I see happening.
815
Still optimistic?
this series isn't over, but this game is.
i am out.
see y'all tomorrow afternoon.
good call, I am doing the same...
Who is in it?
Somebody help me out here. Kenny Rogers? Goddamn.
Murderers' Row got tossed in jail this evening by the sheriff.
that sounds easy enough...are you basing that on 20 LOB yesterday or only advancing 1 runner today ?
Or perhaps on A Rods legendary Octobers ?
Or Jaret Wrights ability to go 7 or 8 strong innings every start ?
I want to see those guys tomorrow. Wright can play the part of Sidney Ponson, simultaneously pitching himself out of the rotation forever while receiving 11 runs in support.
a little patience....
We're just angry and venting. It doesn't make us quitters. I sure as hell would rather get angry and expect results than turn into some ridiculously optimistic Cubs fan type. If you want all hope and rose petals, go to a little league game.
I want postseason victories, and I'd be happy for Cashman to pay through the nose to get them. But I'm just not sure I buy the standard story about needing aces more than bats in the postseason.
NO IDEA how that 1-2 pitch to Jeter was low, wow that was a generous call!!!
Anyway, I gotta get back to my place in Brooklyn from my parents' place in Manhattan so I'm probaby out of here. I'll go watch the last inning and a half and catch the 2 or 3 before express service shuts down for the weekend.
I'll see you all at 4 p.m. for Jaret Wright's redemption.
Agree to disagree. I suppose you think I'd like them to lose tonight, and tommorrow?
Hard-thrower to doom A-Rod.
I don't think they'll lose tomorrow.
God, I hate Kenny Rogers. Lays a big fat fucking egg in NY, hell, both NY's and now he's a hero? God Dammit!
I blame the rain. We need a retractable roof.
Go figure.
You know. Has our line-up just sucked?
Great pitching beats great hitting, but
Good pitching does NOT beat great hitting.
We're seeing great pitching tonight from Rogers.
I'd agree if Wright wasn't the guy they were throwing at him.
I think it was a mistake not asking the ump to check Kenny's hat and glove tonight. Not that I think he was cheating, but when you are much better than normal, maybe just ask, huh Joe?
i could only wish arod had a postseason game like his just to shut everybody up. Oh wait, he did have great games v the twins and the red sox on 04, but i guess everybody forgot those
One baby cries One mother grieves
For all the sins you will commit
You'll beg forgiveness and none I'll give
A web of fear shall be your coat
To clothe you in the night
A lucky escape for now young man
But I see you damned in endless night.
yea....how did he finish up in '04 ?
Sigh...we'll get 'em tomorrow.
Yea, because he's batted below .100 since! And yes, that does mean he's the biggest choker since Barry Bonds in the post season. Face it, get over your man crush and deal with the cold hard statistics, he flat out sucks in the PS. And yes it does matter that he makes 25 mil. And yes it matters that he spoke to the press and said he would hit in this series. If he doesn't want attention, keep his fucking mouth shut like everyone else!
Oh, for a minute I thought this was July.
damn it....I was just typing that verbatim
Don't get me wrong, I want to see A Rod play well in October but facts are facts and he is quiet when it counts....that's all
A-Rod is .305/.393/.534 in postseason play.
Try checking the 'cold hard statistics' before blowing wind, stormer.
July 23, 2006: Yanks lose 13-5 to Toronto. They then win 4 straight.
July 29, 2006: Yanks lose 19-6 to TB. They then win 5 straight.
August 17, 2006: Yanks lose 12-2 to Baltimore. They then win 5 straight at Fenway.
If Joe really wants to win, he'll put Sheffield at 3B tomorrow, and DH Bernie with Giambi at 1B. He can use Charlie Hayes a.k.a Alex Rodriguez at 3B in garbage time.
Ok fine. He is batting less than .120 with the Yankees in the PS, is that better? I couldn't care less what he did with Seattle.
And the season is in the hands of Wright.
But I like the guy. I think he's a gamer. I'm expecting good things tomorrow and looking forward to Sunday back home in The Boogie Down.
My thoughts go no further than that.
His postseason numbers are very bad with the Yankees, of course.
The hitters did squat tonight, Kenny took advantage of their anxiousness.
And he's no longer pitching in Texas, so he can go a full season.
JMO
take a look at his stats with the Yanks not when he played for that Seattle team that no one gave a shit about.....
he is crashing and burning as a Yankee in the Post-Season and I do not give a shit about what he did when he played Seattle
Thanks.
What Arod has done since 2004 is analogous to Michael Jordan averaging 10 points a game for three straight playoff years, it's that simple. We need to get off this blind support and call a spade a spade. He is paid to do what Pujols does, yet he isn't any better than your average pitcher. Face the facts! This isn't little leaugue. The guy has 450+ HR at 31 years and cannot bat better than .120 the last three PS, deal with it and call it what it is. One big fat choke job.
Don't get me wrong. I think A-Rod is a very valuable player; he reminds me of Scottie Pippen. That's a good thing and a bad thing.
Makes me pine for the days when all we could talk about was Giambi.
Good.
I wanna see about 12 freakin' Yankee runs in the top of the 9th in an ALDS game. Maybe 13.
the fucking guy got a standing O in the Bronx the other day...for nothing but some hope that he would snap out of this October funk
Look, if he kept his mouth shut and shruged it off, I wouldn't care. Arod is the piece of shit who gave an SI interview with 2 weeks left in the season, for himself, not for the team. It's that simple. Fans are right to dislike him, because he cant get Madison Avenue off his mind and play baseball.
Okay, so some people don't give a shit about what A-Rod did in Seattle. That doesn't change the facts. It only means you're ignoring the facts.
All is not lost for the Yankees yet. They have beaten the Tigers twice in a row before they can do it again.
God I'm glad Torre isn't the only manager who doesn't know how to use a bullpen. Todd Jones, with a six run lead. Freaking brilliant.
Hey, I hope Jaret has a little stash of greenies.
I mean, caffeinated coffee.
Eh, the Yankees will get them tomorrow. Turn off ESPN and have a goodnight's sleep.
KENNY FUCKING ROGERS??????????
Dis-gusting.
Let's stay loose and get some positive energy flowing.
Had that Verducci piece never been written, I think he would have had a better post-season. And yes, I realize it's not over yet.
Get Wang to Detroit if he's not already there.
Settle down, guys. A good night's sleep can fix almost anything.
Dude. It's not dice. The best players perform on the biggest stages, and others wilt. Obviously Kenny Rogers has learned how to deal with the biggest stages, at least for tonight, and Arod has been the worst hitter on this team since game 3 of the 2004 ALCS, that's a cold hard statistical fact. No regular player has a worse post season average since that game than does Arod.
It didn't cost us the game, but you would sure like to see the best players at least play well in the post-season.
We win tomorrow, and we get to go back to the Stadium as favorites.
There, now I can sleep.
Umm, ahhh, ummm, ahh. So, it's an "obsession" when the media covers a 60 year old man propositioning teenagers? Go kiss that Bush Bumper Sticker on your car.
God I miss him!
This is getting insanely aggravating.
I believe they'll win it tomorrow and all that, but come ON.
And I realize this is stupid ass Kenny Rogers, but Don Larsen was not that good of a pitcher, and he threw a PERFECT GAME in the World Series. This crazy shit happens and it sucks when it happens to your team. Kenny Rogers threw a good game, and the Yanks may have helped him but he was filthy.
So Ted Williams sucked, then. Stan Musial, .256 in postseason play. It follows that he isn't one of the best players.
This is an important discovery of yours, nice work. Most people who actually look into these things are under the bad misimpression that a few dozen at-bats can't really tell you much.
The whole world loves it when you make that sound...
ESPN, Steve Phillips, Jon Miller, Joe Morgan and all of you pinstripe-hating fat ass media slobs — you've got your crack high. Yanks are down 2-1. Go to town.
Tomorrow the worm turns.
I agree, if Jaret comes through, we're the favorites in game five.
In the Bronx. With the Wanger. Against a pitcher we can hit.
Gotta win tomorrow, damnit!
1001 What song is that? Forgive me, I'm young. ^^
Ugh, I'm off before you all tick me off even more.
High five, guys. Get 'em tomorrow.
So I guess the key is to not fall behind. :-P
Damon sucked
Jeter sucked
Abreu sucked
Arod sucked
Giambi sucked
Posada was ok
Matsui sucked
Bernie really sucked
Cano sucked....
Unit spit the bit.
Prediction (although I still think NY will win the series)....if the Yankees lose tomorrow Joe will be gone, Unit will retire, Bernie..gone, and Arod will still be here....so all the Arod haters just need to get used to the fact that he is here for the long term, he will eventually show up in the playoffs (may still happen this year), and will go to the Hall of Fame with a NY hat on.
The season isn't over yet.
ESPN's whole coverage. It's really bad when the best people covering this thing (other than Gammons) are Ravetch, Byrnes and a rival centerfielder, Vernon Wells.
Hm, of course, you're trailing more often against good pitching, so bound to have lower avg. then!
I quoted "Moonchild" from Iron Maiden. Gotta love the early '80s.
WWJ(eter)D?
On a somewhat-unrelated note, if Todd Jones can be a successful big-league closer by not walking or K'ing people, why is David Wells retiring again? Well, I guess the bars are probably closing up shop after the 9th, but still....
Tonight was very frustrating. Not only did we apparently stink (and it was obviously a team stink) but I had to follow the whole thing on gameday. Tomorrow I get to watch and I'm very thrilled. We are 1-0 in this playoff season when I get to watch! :)
You're like Chance the Gardener.
This one goes out to YOU, Jeremy Bonderman!
And as you walk to the light
I feel my hands go tight
Excitement running through my veins...
I feel adrenaline rush
It's just the final touch
You can kiss your arse goodbye
Let's throw this one in the scrap heap.
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