Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
2006-09-25 05:11
by Alex Belth
Note: The Bronx Banter blog has moved to

The Yanks got smushed by the Devil Rays on Saturday 8-0, and then 11-4 on Sunday, almost as badly as Manny Ramirez did by Boston Globe columnist Gordon Edes over the weekend (yikes). Randy Johnson and Mike Mussina were the losers; yesterday, Ron Villone continued to struggle. Moose was hit in the hand by a line drive off the bat of Carl Crawford in the fifth, but was not hurt seriously. He was more upset about losing the game. Later, he told the New York Times:

"It's a big deal," said starter Mike Mussina, who lasted four and two-thirds innings Sunday and was the losing pitcher. "It was a big deal last year, and we let it get away. When you clinch this early, you've got to find a way to get motivated and stay after it for another week. We've got to win some ballgames and not let it get away from us."

With Sunday's loss, the Yankees fell a half-a-game behind the Tigers for the best record in the league. According to Pete Abraham, Torre told reporters after the game that while home field advantage throughout the post-season is important, it's not worth exhausting his players this week. "I'm not going to beat the hell out of them," he said. This isn't the first time in recent memory that the Yankees have slipped a bit towards the end of September. I don't think it will sperl them for the playoffs.

Gary Sheffield had an adventurous go of it at first base on both Saturday, when he was hand-cuffed by a throw from Johnson, and again on Sunday. More from Kepner:

"Once I go through it and see it once, I'll get it," Sheffield said. He added: "I'm willing to learn. I'm putting the work in and the time, and eventually I'll get it."

Torre said that while Sheffield's footwork could improve, even a more experienced first baseman might have made the same decisions. While saying he had not decided whether to start Sheffield at first in the playoffs, Torre seems confident he could manage it.

"He's got a feel for the game," Torre said. "So I'm not really concerned."

Jason Giambi hopes to return later this week. I think it's safe to say that Torre and the Yankees are not sure yet what their first base/DH plans will be come next week.

Comments (87)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-09-25 05:59:42
1.   Sliced Bread
Ah, smushed, Alex. One of the great underused verbs. I broke it out this weekend smushing Playdoh with my sons. Mr. Smushface cracked them up repeatedly. Please understand my sons are little guys, not teenagers.

Man, I hope Giambi is ready to mash.

Man, I hope the rest of 'em wake up. Sleepwalkin' is dangerous, especially this time of year.

Wake up and smell the toast, Mr. Torre. Villone's arm is burnt, and ain't no jelly gonna make that appealing. Send that tired horse home.

Say yes to Bruney, and Rasner.
Say yes to Guiel.

2006-09-25 06:06:09
2.   Sliced Bread
Over at the Replacement Level Yankess Weblog, SG posts the following postseason roster. I like it. Joe won't do it.

Pitchers (10)

Catchers (2)

Infielders (6)

Outfielders (7)

Too bad we have to have so many first basemen. Too bad Wilson and Phillips haven't been better. Too bad we don't have a reliable long man. Too bad Lidle and Villone will be on the roster. I don't like to envision the situation that would make them necessary.

2006-09-25 07:06:10
3.   joejoejoe
2 Is Jose Veras eligible?

I'd take Veras over Phillips. I also think the old catcher in Torre will tempt him to take Wilson over Guiel. I prefer Guiel on the roster because I think he's made more contributions this season than Wilson. Wilson is basically an insurance policy that was never needed. I think Guiel is more one of Torre's guys so he ultimately squeaks on ahead of C. Wilson.

Notes: The Yanks would be 3 deep at every infield position even if they leave Phillips off the roster. Sheffield could serve as an emergency 3B option if you lost A-Rod and Cano to injuries in one series. Guiel played 2B in A ball for 3+ years. If Jeter and Cairo are hurt I hear A-Rod used to play a fair SS.

I also think Damon would field any position adequately in an emergency so I'd take the 11 pitchers.

2006-09-25 07:29:27
4.   Sliced Bread
3I think Veras is eligible, but Joe hasn't seen enough of him to bring him to the postseason.

If the Yanks go with 11 pitchers, I'd bring the 10 pitchers SG posted above 2, plus Karstens.

I trust Karstens more than Villone and Lidle at this point, but I doubt Joe does.

Unfortunately, I think Joe is going to bring both Villone and Lidle, and I don't trust either of them.

2006-09-25 07:30:55
5.   Tarheel
If Arod had "quit" on his team after all the adversity he went through this year, how bad would he have been hammered in the media, especially ESPN? How come this is the first I have heard from any media outlet about Manny "quiting" on his team? As soon as the Yankees beat them 5 in a row and it was obvious that the Sox were done, he has quit. I just think it is horrible how big the double standard is in the media in regards to the Yankees and all the rest of the teams.
2006-09-25 07:34:44
6.   Count Zero
You have to take 11 pitchers -- Phillips doesn't belong on the way, no how.
2006-09-25 07:37:44
7.   pistolpete
What a fugly weekend of baseball. I think I saw maybe 3 innings total between family stuff and yard work, and I'm a better person for it.

Not being a Giants fan, my sports experience these past two days was only half as bad as some of you.

Not overly concerned about the 'sluggishness', though - Tampa's lineup is a bunch of hackers, and of course they always manage to trot out some Double-A noob that nearly no-hits us at least once or twice a series. They play us hard every single game, and I attribute that to the lingering Piniella influence.

2006-09-25 07:42:07
8.   Sliced Bread
6 Phillips is the Yanks' best defensive option at first. That's why I'd bring him if they only go with 10 pitchers.

If you're going to go with 11 pitchers, bring the right ones.

The problem is, Joe is probably going to bring 11, but two of them are the same unreliable reliever: Villone and Lidle.

2006-09-25 07:52:28
9.   Start Spreading the News

As much as I hate defending the Boston media (especially when they are wrong), Globe writers have been all over Manny all year long. There are many articles exasperated with Manny being Manny. And I saw at least one article wonder about Manny's heart when he pulled himself out of that game. Mind you up to that point, Manny was batting .700 and had an OBP of .850 against the Yankees. He was absolutely murdering them and pulled himself out of Game 5 of the sweep.

In classic mode, there were whispers about Manny not really being injured the very next day without the medical results being available. Of course he really was hurt. Now whether he could have helped out despite the injury is questionable. Maybe someone like Damon plays thru that injury.

But the hypercritical Boston media has been all over Manny.

Now the double standard may be from the national media. But even there I don't agree. Arod tries to do the right thing and play thru injuries. Arod quitting is a "man bites dog" story. Manny being Manny is hardly news and outside of Boston, it is a "dog bites man" story.

2006-09-25 08:38:21
10.   Schteeve
I second the no way no how for Andy P. The guy doens't add enough value to sacrifice a pitcher.
2006-09-25 08:51:04
11.   Sliced Bread
10 What if the sacrifical pitcher is Villone?
2006-09-25 09:03:16
12.   Maz
It seems pretty clear to me the way Joe has been using Guiel and Cairo that they'll be on the roster. In the same respect, the way he has barely used Wilson and Phillips should give every indication they won't make the roster. Pitching wise, I just don't know. Joe kind of scares me there.
2006-09-25 09:08:03
13.   LI yankee
Who's this Rivera guy? Do we really need him for the playoffs?
2006-09-25 09:08:30
14.   pistolpete
A few more dreadful appearances and Villone should be left off the roster - seems like he's going to get every chance Torre gives him to try and prove himself.

Let's just hope he doesn't throw a couple of scoreless innings against the Jays on Sunday and Joe actually takes that into consideration...

2006-09-25 09:18:04
15.   joejoejoe
4 Francisco Rodriguez had 5 2/3 IP in 2002 and got added to the Angels postseason roster. Jose Veras isn't in the same class but he's got solid stuff and could catch fire. Veras had 10/K per 9IP two years running in AAA. That's worth adding as the 11th pitcher. I like Jeff Karstens but he's been mostly a starter and Veras has 50 relief appearances this year at Columbus.
2006-09-25 09:25:31
16.   Sliced Bread
15 Good points. Veras would probably be my 12th pitcher, but there's very little chance Joe is going to bring him.

I think Karstens is a better #11 choice because (on my roster) he and Rasner would replace Villone and Lidle as the longmen/ emergency starters. Yanks have enough short relievers in Proctor, Farnswacker, Bruney, Mo.

2006-09-25 09:26:28
17.   Sliced Bread
12 I think you're right re: Wilson and Phillips.
2006-09-25 09:28:26
18.   Count Zero
11 My reasons for dumping Phillips have more to do with him than Villone or any 11th pitcher.

You've made a decision to carry Sheffield as a 1B/DH. You already have Giambi as a 1B/DH. Now you want to carry yet another 1B because neither of the other two can play D? Unreasonable use of a roster spot. On the other hand, if you're saying you're going to play Sheff in the OF, then you have to dump Guiel to keep Wilson or Phillips -- and I would marginally favor Wilson -- or you are keeping Guiel as your defensive replacement at 1B.

Postseason with 10 pitchers is just too risky. One long extra inning game with a game the next day and you're screwed. Villone sucks, but at least he can eat up a few innings in a blowout loss. I agree I'd rather have Veras, but I want an 11th regardless.

2006-09-25 09:44:20
19.   Sliced Bread
18 "Now you want to carry yet another 1B because neither of the other two can play D?"

Yes. One blown defensive play can make a huge difference in a game or series (see Bubba-Sheff crash)

Giambi is hurt, and has said he wants to DH to rest his wrist.

Sheff makes me nervous. He's a little jittery,, and overaggressive. Let's hope he can avoid crashing into Cano, or one of our pitchers.

Late in a close game I think Phillips defense is a plus, especially as Giambi and Sheffield have not been crushing the ball lately to make up for their shaky defense.

Need I remind you of how terrible Villone has been lately? If the game is a blow out, Villone isn't going to help end any game. He's burnt toast.

Again, I'd go with 11 pitchers if you're tallking about the right ones. Villone should not go, but he will.

Wilson over Phillips is debatable, but I doubt either is going to the postseason, so we're probably wasting our time discussing them. I lean towards Phillips because he's the better 1B defender, and Bernie replaces whatever's left of Wilson's bat.

2006-09-25 10:00:11
20.   Schteeve
19 Sliced, if the post season comes down to one defensive play at 1B, they don't deserve to win anything. Ask Bill Buckner.
2006-09-25 10:13:02
21.   Maz
The big questions are probably:
1. Can Sheffield's bat come alive enough to make up for any defensive shortcomings?
2. How much of an upgrade is Phillips over Cairo and Guiel at first?
3. What will Giambi be able to bring to the table with his sore wrist?
2006-09-25 10:20:56
22.   Count Zero
19 You know the funny thing is I actually agree with you about 1B, but in a roundabout way.

If you ask me, the guy I would leave off is Sheff. He'll be a defensive liability no matter where he plays, and I doubt his bat will be anywhere near 100%. But since that's totally unrealistic...

If you're saying we must have a late inning defensive replacement at 1B, then I would probably agree and I would keep either Wilson or Phillips. But then I can't justify keeping another that means Sheff is an OFer. Which means one of the OFers has to go. That has to be Guiel because Bernie has that lucky rabbit's foot feel to him like he's destined to play an important part at some key moment. So now we have no real pinch runner, and Melky is our backup CF, and Sheff is our DH.

We can't carry two mashers (Sheff and Giambi) who both play the same position badly, unless you're thinking platoon. Otherwise, Matsui is a pinch hitter, correct? I don't see him playing LF...

2006-09-25 10:26:42
23.   Bama Yankee
Would Joe go with Matsui in left and Giambi at first, using Melky and Andy as defensive replacements? This would also help offset the tough lefty that comes in to face Matsui or Giambi since Sheff would pinch hit and the defensive replacement could take over.
2006-09-25 10:34:50
24.   JL25and3
20 By the same token, if the season comes down to a decision between Andy Phillips and Fungible Eleventh Pitcher, they don't deserve to win.

If that is the choice, I'd lean slightly towards Phillips. If he has any use, it's to help preserve a win; F.E.P. will only be used in a meaningless situation. In a 5-game series, they shouldn't need the extra pitcher. (Remember, they can change the roster before the ALCS.)

Not that it matters much, but the F-Rod dodge won't work for Veras. He was allowed on the postseason roster only as a replacement for a player who was injured. And I'm pretty sure the injury was after 8/31, so you couldn't use him as a replacement for, say, Pavano.

2006-09-25 10:39:11
25.   Jim Dean
Just because Torre thinks Phillips is the best defensive 1B on the team doesn't make it so. The stats say:

At 1B in 2006
Phillips: 90 Chances 27 A 6 E 56 DP .989 FP
Wilson: 90 Chances 26 A 2 E 62 DP .997 FP

So in the same number of chances, Wilson has made many fewer errors and turned more double plays. How exactly is Phillips better? Field percentage is Yet, this feeling is pervasive - just goes to show how the way Torre plays guys filters all the way down, even to more knowledgeable fans as yourselves.

Even still I agree wholeheartedly with 12 - that portends the roster especially when we see Cairo playing late innings at 1B. It's a shame - Nick Green is still the better choice. But Torre hass his thing for underperforming Latin utility guys (see also Mariano Duncan, Jose Vizcaino, Luis Sojo, and Enrique Wilson) even when better options were available. It's like they're his lucky post-season charm or something.

2006-09-25 10:55:25
26.   Chyll Will
Wowzers, what a craptacular weekend. Well, I felt somewhat better when the Jets handed Buffalo their behinds on a platter yesterday, plus take a look at this...

(Sorry, tinyurl wouldn't work on this one...)

2006-09-25 11:02:44
27.   Tarheel
9 I guess since I live in NC all I hear (or read) is ESPN and the online version of the Daily News and haven't seen or heard much, if any, criticism of Manny. This article just made me wonder why the Steve Phillips of the world are giving him a pass. Why aren't they suggesting that Boston trade Manny because his teammates don't like him and the fans are turning on him? Arod has some struggles this year and they treat him like he had something to do with the JFK assassination. Manny just gets the "Manny being Manny" deal. I guess I am just too focused on the Yankees and don't "get out much" to keep up with the Sox, or other MLB teams.
2006-09-25 11:05:12
28.   bp1
19 Good thinking, Sliced, but the problem is we never know when that "blown defensive play" will happen. Correct my memory if I'm wrong, but I think the defensive lapse that killed the Yankees vs the Angels during Wang's start last Fall was pretty early in the game and was a real killer. 4th inning?

Sheff's bat better heat up soon, 'cause if the Yankees are going to risk first base defense, they better get something in return. At least Giambi hit last October.

This ain't an easy call - Sheff vs Giambino - vs Defensive Expert. For all we know - neither Giambino nor Sheff will be able to hit a lick in a few weeks. Sheff at least is healthy and it seems his deal is just to get his timing back. Giambi? Does anyone really know? It doesn't sound good - tendenitis vs ligament tear.

But heck. What do I know.

2006-09-25 11:09:52
29.   Tarheel
By the way, after hearing all this about Arod to the Angels, does anyone here actually think that he won't be with the Yankees next year? I always felt that he would, but after Cashman's "no comment" about this possibility, I am beginning to get a little nervous about this. I think it would be a HUGE mistake. Not to mention, it would give all these media guys the feeling that they have to power to decide who playes where.
2006-09-25 11:15:32
30.   Bama Yankee
I posted this a while back, but here it is again:
I'm not sure how this year's ALDS roster will shake out but compared to last year's roster it looks like an upgrade:
Wilson or Phillips instead of Tino as backup 1B
Guiel or Sheff instead of Bubba as backup OF
Damon instead of Bernie as starting CF
Bernie instead of Ruben as pinch hitting OF
Abreu instead of Sheff as starting RF
Melky instead of Womack as backup OF/pinch runner
Cairo instead of Bellhorn as backup IF
Fasano instead of Flaherty as backup C
2006-09-25 11:15:36
31.   Sliced Bread
21 Great questions:

1. Can Sheffield's bat come alive enough to make up for any defensive shortcomings?

Probably not, but hopefully he's worth bringing along as a DH/PH option. If he doesn't start smacking the ball this week, I won't be surprised if he sits out the ALDS.

2. How much of an upgrade is Phillips over Cairo and Guiel at first?
Probably not much. Phillips is going... going...

3. What will Giambi be able to bring to the table with his sore wrist?

That's the biggie.

Assuming Giambi can play, and Sheff starts showing signs of life at the plate; here, for what it's worth (not much), is my 25 man roster:

10 pitchers: Wang, Unit, Mussina, Wright, Rasner, Myers (strictly LOOGY), Bruney, Proctor, Farnswacker, Mo

(note: No Villone. No Lidle. But they will be on Joe's roster) I could be convinced that Karstens should replace somebody above (Myers?), but Joe would never go there, so why think about it?

Catchers: Posada, Fasano

Starting fielders/DH:

1B Giambi, 2B Cano, SS Jeter, 3B A-Rod, LF Melky, CF Damon, RF Abreu, DH Matsui

Reserve OF/1B: Guiel
Pinch Hitters/reserve OF: Sheffield
Pinch Hitter (strictly): Bernie
Reserve IF (emergency only): Green & Phillips

(note: no Cairo. but you know he's going to be on Joe's roster)

2006-09-25 11:17:43
32.   Chyll Will
27 To me, there's a vested interest in critcizing the Yanks due to their overwhelming success in their history; many of those tearing down the team in the Daily Rues or E$%@ are not, repeat not hometown folks. One in particular lives in the dead of New England and thrives on knocking the Yankees, probably for the safety of his family. And several who are hometown products (not that you would know it or anything until New York wins; check them out at the front of the parade) have grown bitter with failing to live up to their own expectations and take out that frustration on a subject that wouldn't otherwise care. It's like people who hate Jeter for no reason, or people who like to pick on A-Rod because it affects him. Some people just feel that it's easier and more economical to attack and hurt, mainly because it makes them feel better. Pitiful and unprofessional, but not illegal. Trust your own judgement is all I say.
2006-09-25 11:22:31
33.   Bama Yankee
31 Good roster Sliced. I agree with you mostly (I would go with Cairo instead of Green).

I do have one question: Has that balky back reverted Farnstantinople back to Farnswacker in your scorebook? ;-)

2006-09-25 11:26:58
34.   Sliced Bread
33 Yeah, Cairo-Green is a toss up. I prefer Green's D. But Cairo's bat is better and that says how bad a hitter Green is. Either should only be used in case of an emergency, and in an emergency I prefer the better glove.

After the way he froze Ortiz with the bases loaded back in May, Farnswacker will always be Farnstantinople to me, and by "always" I mean until he comes up lame in the postseason. I maintain unjustified confidence in Lord Farnstleroy at this point.

2006-09-25 11:27:01
35.   pistolpete
I prefer the online edition:

2006-09-25 11:35:20
36.   Sliced Bread
30 Good stuff. Upgrades all around.
2006-09-25 11:36:50
37.   Tarheel
32The person you speak of that lives in New England wouldn't be Lupica would it? He really tries to make it seem as if he is a New Yorker through and through on that crappy show Sports Reporters.
2006-09-25 11:38:44
38.   Chyll Will
35 Can't argue with that >;)
2006-09-25 11:43:20
39.   Chyll Will
37 He probably is(was), but if you take a gander at 35 or 26 you might begin to understand why he is the way he is.

...crappy show Sports Reporters. Isn't that like a double-post or something?

2006-09-25 11:48:22
40.   Shaun P
As I heard a caller on XM say the other day: The Daily News has been picking the wrong side since they went against Lincoln in the Civil War.

No way Ca$hman moves A-Rod. Not gonna happen.

2006-09-25 11:50:32
41.   Chyll Will
35 See that? In the print issues he's more "street"... online, he has to cater to a different demograph. He cleans up well, doesn't he?
2006-09-25 11:52:45
42.   pistolpete
40 Is that right about the Civil War, or was that simply a joke made to prove a point?
2006-09-25 11:58:32
43.   Chyll Will
42 I think he's right, man. If Shaun hasn't looked it up yet, I will...
2006-09-25 12:05:59
44.   RIYank
Don't forget that {knock on wood} the Yankees will need some extra pinch hitters late in the month. Mainly for that reason I'm siding with the ten-pitcher roster. The other reason is that for these critical games you can burn your best arms for a few extra outs -- I'd expect to see some five-out saves from Mo, for example.
2006-09-25 12:07:54
45.   Bama Yankee
40 & 42 You guys talking about the "War of Northern Aggression"? ;-)
2006-09-25 12:13:49
46.   Bama Yankee
42 I think it is correct:
2006-09-25 12:15:43
47.   JL25and3
ARod isn't going anywhere. The Yankees aren't going to trade him, and he's not going to approve any trade. The Angels rumor could only have come from the Angels front office, or from some sportswriter's fevered imagination. It certainly didn't come from the Yankees, who never ever ever say anything about any deals they're working on.
2006-09-25 12:17:25
48.   JL25and3
40 I heard that call, too. He was calling from North Dakota. He also said that the News is the fourth-place paper in the city, which is patent nonsense.
2006-09-25 12:21:20
49.   Tarheel
47I know they try to keep things in house, but earlier in the year when the "trade Arod" talk was so widespread, Cashman came out and said he wasn't going anywhere. Now he is just saying no comment. Hopefully, he is just tired of all the talk and wants to get off the subject. But, you would think that he would at least say something to the effect of "I addressed this earlier in the year and I haven't changed my mind".
2006-09-25 12:31:33
50.   Chyll Will
The NY Daily News was first run in 1919. It has mostly been described as a moderately-liberal newspaper, with an exception to the time it was in partnership with the Chicago Tribune, during which it was strictly conservative.

Irrelevant, since the issue was whether they supported the Confederate cause during the Civil War. They weren't around yet to do so, but perhaps they had ancestors:

"The New York Journal of Commerce, originally abolitionist, was sold to owners who became Copperheads, giving them an important voice in the largest city."

"John Mullaly's Metropolitan Record was the official Catholic paper in New York City. Reflecting Irish opinion, it supported the war until 1863, then became a Copperhead organ and the editor was arrested for draft resistance. The Copperhead rhetoric in their press was red-hot in displaying their hatreds and bitterness."

Sited from Wikepedia. I've shortened the quotes due to their political, and unfortunately graphic nature. This ain't the place for it, honestly.

One does get the impression from the editorial rhetoric that the daily News has been dead wrong about many hot button issues, and when it comes to sports, I'll believe they are often thought of as No.1, but not in the manner they intended or promote.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-09-25 12:36:27
51.   Chyll Will
45 Harrr-dy-har-har... >;)
2006-09-25 12:40:08
52.   pistolpete
Thanks Bama and Chyll for the links. I feel smarter now. :-)
2006-09-25 12:41:05
53.   Chyll Will
46 Interesting! Is that the same NY Daily News? If so, then it puts a lie to their own history, or somebody is lying for them. I wouldn't be surprised, as I indicated before. Thanks, Bama!
2006-09-25 12:41:17
54.   Schteeve
Maybe Cashman is no commenting to see if other teams will offer their stadium and all their prospects ofr A-Rod while his value in NY is relatively 'depressed.'

It could just be a fact finding game that Cash money is playing. He's no dummy.

2006-09-25 13:01:01
55.   smingers
Am I the only one who thinks the Yanks should seriously investigate trading Arod to the Angels? Let me say right off that I think Arod is a great player, the best 3B in baseball, and gets way too much flak from the media and a small segment of fans.

However, presumably in any trade for Arod, good, young pitching would be coming back to New York (whether Santana or someone else).

Heading into the playoffs, wouldn't people feel more comfortable with another strong arm in the rotation, even if it meant subtracting Arod's bat from the lineup? That's not a rhetorical question, by the way.

2006-09-25 13:11:26
56.   Tarheel
If they get rid of Arod, where is the run production going to come from in the next year or two (or more)? Sheff will probably be gone, and if not he will most likely begin to decline. Who knows what you will get out of Giambi over the next couple of years? Arod has at least 5 good years left, probably more considering how good he seems to take care of himself. Matsui probably has a good couple of years left. After that, there is no real power/run production in the lineup. Melky, Cano, Jeter, Damon, etc., are all great talents, but their value is not in power and run production (although I suppose that Cano may show some good power in the upcoming years). And what makes anyone think that any team is going to give up good young pitching for Arod? I really think that he needs to be part of the "nucleus" of this team for several more years.
2006-09-25 13:20:16
57.   JL25and3
55 I think they'd be crazy even to consider trading Rodriguez unless some team were willing to give a breathtaking package in return.

But even if they did, ARod has to approve any trade, and he won't. If he agreed to be traded, it would be a tacit admission that he couldn't cut it in NY, and he's not going to do that. He's said over and over that he's not going anywhere, and I believe him.

2006-09-25 13:24:26
58.   pistolpete
57 Exactly, so we're stuck with him. ;-)

Even more reason to get #27 in the bank this year. A confident A-Rod is a productive A-Rod.

2006-09-25 13:27:00
59.   JL25and3
58 Yeah, stuck with him...please, Brer Fox, don't throw me in that briar patch!
2006-09-25 13:30:42
60.   C2Coke
22 Matsui will be trying out in LF tomorrow. What he can do in the next few days in the Left will determine a lot (besides whether Sheff's bat will heat up or not).
2006-09-25 13:33:04
61.   C2Coke
58 A confident Arod is more than productive, he's the one to break records and set history. Who doesn't miss last year's MVP Arod?
2006-09-25 13:33:07
62.   Bama Yankee
53 Here's the best I could come up with to answer your question:
(looks like NY Daily News was founded in 1855)
(NY Daily News purchased by Benjamin Wood in 1860)
(Wood was a Kentucky-born politician and newspaperman. He was also anti-war.
(Wood's brother Fernando, who was mayor at the time, advocated in 1861 that NYC secede and declare itself a free city, to continue its profitable cotton trade with the Confederacy)

Maybe the 1919 version of the NY Daily News wanted to make a break from their past and from Benjamin Wood.

2006-09-25 13:34:35
63.   pistolpete
60 Here's my question - does Sheff make the PS roster regardless? What if he goes hitless between now and the end of the season?
2006-09-25 13:44:03
64.   JL25and3
63 If you left Sheffield off the roster, what would that give you? the "luxury" of carrying both Andy Phillips and a mop-up reliever?

I think you have to carry Sheffield. And coming from me, that's saying something.

2006-09-25 13:48:28
65.   pistolpete
Good point, but I just worry his presence is going to oblige Torre to start him. Francessa was talking about the moves Torre made in 96 where he benched Boggs and Tino because they weren't hitting well, and how it was pretty gutsy considering who they were.

Seems like he's moved away from that sort of risky thinking lately - sticking with guys based on merit and 'trust' rather than who's got the hot bat- and I'm not sure it's a good thing.

2006-09-25 13:59:18
66.   Shaun P
48 Having never lived in the City, I can't comment on that part - but I sure thought that guy was on target with the rest of his comments.

63 I say yes, because he's still 'Gary Sheffield', and opposing managers will have to worry about him. That means even if he's just a pinch hitter, he has tremendous value.

That said, I would like to see the Yanks carry 11 pitchers the whole way through. Its not out of the realm of possibility that one postseason series could include a bad Unit start, a bad Moose start and a bad Wright start. That's an awful lot of innings to be covered.

Villone might even be useful, as the Tigers and the A's seem to have trouble with lefties (he says, without looking up the numbers).

2006-09-25 14:02:33
67.   JL25and3
66 Right now we're just talking about the ALDS, since the roster can be changed between rounds. And if a best-of-5 series includes bad starts by Johnson, Mussina and Wright, the Yankees are going home no matter how many pitchers they've got.
2006-09-25 14:05:54
68.   Jim Dean
What's the deal with the love for Phillips? Wilson is better offensively and defensively - it's really no comparison.
2006-09-25 14:06:21
69.   randym77
I don't think Andy Phillips belongs on the post-season roster. Frankly, I don't think he belongs on the roster now. He rarely sees the light of day, and when he does, by his own admission, he's an easy out, can't field, and can't run.

I think Guiel is our best defensive first baseman now.

I think I'd leave Sheff off the post-season roster, too. Nothing against him, but he's not going to be ready for play 1B in time, and his swing might not be, either. I kind of doubt Joe will do that, though. I have a feeling we're going to have a lot of DH types, at the expense of speed and defense.

2006-09-25 14:24:46
70.   Bama Yankee
69 Ouch, my man Phillips is taking a beating...

If I had to choose between Guiel and Phillips, I guess I would go with Guiel also (although it's hard for me to say that he is the best at 1B after only 15 games at the position).

Who would you put in Sheff's place?

2006-09-25 14:26:56
71.   smingers
56 57 I'm not saying I disagree, but just as our sluggers are aging, so too is our pitching staff. So just as we can wonder where the power is going to come from in the next few years, we can wonder where the innings and wins are going to come from.
2006-09-25 14:31:11
72.   Bama Yankee
68 Are you talking about the same Wilson that is (.229/.267/.396) since we got him?
And the same Phillips that is(.240/.282/.399) this year?
I'm not saying that Phillips is much better, but it is worth a comparison. For my money, they are about the same. Which means that Wilson has been more of a disappointment than we thought he would be.
2006-09-25 14:32:10
73.   rbj
A tiger.
Who wants to be the guy to tell Sheff he's not on the PS roster.
2006-09-25 14:37:09
74.   Bama Yankee
73 LOL. Tony or Woods?
2006-09-25 14:44:47
75.   randym77
Sorry, Bama. I like Andy, really I do. I even think he could still improve. He's terrible against lefties this season, but hasn't been in the past. IMO, they've learned to pitch to him. The scouts have realized he has trouble hitting the high and away pitch from lefties, and he hasn't caught up to them yet. He will, and he may be quite serviceable then. But this season...he has no purpose on the team. As Goldman pointed out, even Bubba Crosby was more useful than Andy. At least he's a defensive upgrade and can pinch-run.

I'd take 11 pitchers instead of Sheff. In case of Unit implosion. Or if Wright has another "gone by the 3rd inning" game.

For a position player, maybe someone who can give us speed and/or defense. Green can play multiple infield positions, which might come in handy for substitutions. KT is solid on defense and probably the fastest guy on the team right now. Wilson strikes out a lot, but he's as good as Andy on defense, mashes lefties, and can serve as an emergency catcher.

2006-09-25 15:00:15
76.   Chyll Will
62 A media conspiracy, eh? There's a lot more behind that woodshed, I'm sure. I knew from their "Big Town" series that they looked wayyy down on that aspect of their history, but to say that it was an entirely different newspaper altogether is begging for a philosophical beatdown. The Daily Ruse, indeed...
2006-09-25 15:01:08
77.   Bama Yankee
75 Unfortunately for Andy, I agree with most of what you say.

I do think Andy is our best defensive 1B (Jim Kaat even commented that he might be a gold glover someday and Kitty knows something about gold gloves) but I am biased. I know what the stats say, but IMO defense is hard to measure with stats (if a guy has no range, he will make fewer errors than a guy who gets to a lot of balls but might misplay them).

As for Wilson mashing lefties, I just have not seen that since he has been here (maybe he just mashes NL lefties?)

2006-09-25 15:14:06
78.   randym77
I know defensive stats are controversial, but Andy's had so many errors. Yeah, errors are just another stat, but they're a very visible one. Andy has six errors this season - one less than Giambi. Andy's made some great plays, but he's also botched some pretty easy ones. I just don't have a lot of faith in his glove.
2006-09-25 15:25:36
79.   Bama Yankee
78 I agree that Andy has botched some easy plays this year and that troubles me (similar to the way A-Rod's decline troubles me). My problem with using stats to measure defense is highlighted by the fact that Giambi and Andy have a similar number of errors. And I'm sure no one would say that Giambi and Phillips are equal with the glove at first.
2006-09-25 15:33:13
80.   randym77
79 Well, there's Cliff's favorite stat, BP's "rate." Wilson and Phillips both score a 93 there, which is below average. Giambi has an 85, which is pretty awful.

But LoHud is reporting that Torre says Andy will be on the post-season roster, so I guess Joe doesn't buy stats, either.

Kind of weird that he's hardly using Andy now, but is going to put him on the post-season roster.

2006-09-25 15:35:49
81.   rbj
74 Bengal.
2006-09-25 15:37:17
82.   Bama Yankee
80 "Kind of weird that he's hardly using Andy now, but is going to put him on the post-season roster."

I don't disagree with you on that one...

I'm going over to the game thread, this back and forth is killing me...

2006-09-25 15:37:57
83.   Bama Yankee
81 As long as you don't say "Auburn"...
2006-09-25 16:23:54
84.   Jim Dean
Look at 25 - exactly how is Phillips the best defensive 1B or a future GG for that matter?
2006-09-25 16:32:22
85.   rbj
Psst, everyone's at the game thread above. (well, a couple of us)
2006-09-25 16:37:01
86.   Eirias
Wow, Edes really throws Ramirez under the bus...
2006-09-25 16:40:33
87.   Eirias
Trading A-Rod to the Angels seems like a really bad idea to me. Outside of the fact that he has been treated fairly shamely here in NY, the Angels ALREADY kill the Yankees. A motivated, multiple-time MVP in their line-up would just make things worse. Besides, we could never get back equal value for him.

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