Classy. Screw that clown.

It's a shame and I really hope that he is okay.

IMHO, if the Red Sox weren't dead already, than with Papi unavailable for who knows how long, the tombstone can now be carved for their '06 season.

Posted this on the previous thread, but the forecast does not look good for baseball in da Bronx tonight.

Let's hope it lets up enough to get the game in. Though I imagine the Yanks would prefer another day of rest, having picked up a game while they slept last night.

I understand the difference is respect. Yanks fans respect, and somehow even admire Ortiz for beating up on the Yankees, but they have no such respect or admiration for Pavano despite his expressed intentions.

Meanwhile, so many Yankee fans would boo A-Rod tonight if he doesn't snap out of his funk, and live up to their expectations.

On Sunday, some people were wondering if anyone's ever given up switch-hitting late in their careers (obviously, suggesting it for Bernie). I've been able to find a few examples, though none of them quite fit Bernie.

The most notable is J. T. Snow, who stopped switch-hitting after the 1998 season. That year he'd had an injured shoulder and hit .164/.259/.247 against lefties. REtrosheet is inexplicably missing his 1999 righty-lefty splits, but his overall production went up. In any case, he remained a lefty batter from then on.

Wally Backman and Todd Hundley gave up switch-hitting near the end of their careers, but by that point I don't know if anyone noticed. Same goes for Jose Valentin, though he's still playing.

REggie Jefferson was a switch-hitter for a while, but I'm not sure when he gave it up. Orlando Merced came up as a switch-hitter, gave it up early, and went back to it later.

All of these players were natural lefties; they were turned into switch-hitters as pros because they couldn't hit lefties. When they still couldn't hit lefties, they gave it up. Mariano Duncan is the only exception I've found among those who gave it up, a natural righty who became a switch-hitter because he couldn't hit righties.

That's not Bernie. He's a "natural" switch-hitter, like Mantle or Murray or (I think) Reggie Smith, a guy who's been switch-hitting since he was a kid. I can't find a precendent for that, which doesn't mean it isn't there.

The difference is quite simple.

Ortiz has shown up for work every day for the Sox for the past 3+ years, been reasonably healthy, and produced at a very high level.

Pavano passed by a black cat while walking under a ladder and looking at a cracked mirror.

(But really, he never was worth 4/40M in ANY circumstance)

I don't know many Yankee fans that dislike Ortiz. Aside from being a tremendous baseball player, he's looks to be a great guy.

As for your assessment "He [Pavano] never was worth 4/40 in ANY circumstance."

Brian Cashman thought so. In fact, so did the Red Sox, Tigers, and Mariners among others. I recall Pavano actually took less than his other offers to play for the Yanks.

The fact also remains, it is more in the interests of Yankees fans for Pavano to get well soon, and return to the field, than it is for Ortiz to get back to crushing the ball.

Be that as it may, I wish them both good health.

And I think Pavano was a Steinbrenner decision, not a Cashman decision. Steinbrenner loves guys who are tough on the Yanks in the postseason (Jaret Wright, Big Unit, Kevin Brown, Mike Mussina, David Wells, Tommy John, Don Gullett....)

13 It is my understanding that Bernie did not learn to switch hit until he was already in the Yanks system. I think that was part of his development, Posada, too.

With Pedro, it probably wasn't only his injury history, but also his airplane hangar filled with Red Sox-Yankees "who's my daddy?" baggage that kept him out of pinstripes.

If Pavano suffered a serious health issue, I think we would all feel the same as we do toward Papi. That is "Gee, I hope he's gonna be ok". I think we'd feel that way about most ballplayers, Kevin Brown included. (Ok - maybe I'm pushing it there).

My thoughts and prayers go out to David Ortiz and his family today. I hope this "irregular heartbeat" is no big deal and he get a clean bill of health from his doctors. However, I would not mind one bit if he was home chillin out when the Red Sox come to the Bronx next month.

Heh heh heh ...

2. I didn't have great hopes that Pavano would help this team, but it would have been nice to give him a start or two down the stretch to rest one of the old guys.

3. I don't know how to do that link thing to other posts, but regarding #13 above, the thing about Mariano Duncan is that he came up in the Dodgers' system at a time when the Dodgers decided that any punchless right-handed hitter who could run should be made to switch-hit. It wasn't that Duncan couldn't hit righties.

As for Pavano, yeah, he was probably overpaid, but lets not kid anyone, the guy can (could) pitch. Its not like we gave that money to Kyle Snyder of Loiaza, or ever Jaret Wright; Pavano has real ability, showed real moxy, and seemed to really want to take the ball for us. That being said, he had a history of injuries causing him to miss serious. I would say we should have had some out in his contract a la Wright, but then we wouldn't have been able to sign him. Hindsight is a great thing, eh?

Get better Papi.

But that's just me.

His Yankee career thus far:
2 years - 4 wins - $20 Million

Has there ever been a bigger bust in major league history?

I was going on sketchy information - it's not the easiest subject to google - and, as it happens, Duncan also couldn't hit righties at all. Correlation, not causation; my mistake.

Do the link thing by putting the number in brackets, [like so].

I'm not Pavano defender or supporter, but I think we let this play out before passing judgement as far as "all time" whatevers. He has not produced for the Yankees. He would have to go 10-7 (or something like that) to even match Kevin Brown's "contribution".

But he is under contract for two more years. If he's still a bum after 2008, then we award him Worst. Signing. Ever. But until then - I say we give him a Giambi and see where this goes.

My fingers and toes are crossed, 'cause arms are in short supply everywhere and the Yankees sure could use a pitcher who can contribute to the team. Now and next year.

Aside from that, I don't have any reason to think he's a "bum." And I certainly don't see how being a bust is his fault.

Everyone knows that signing pitchers is a gamble, and with the number of free agent pitchers the Yankees have signed over the years, you have to expect that some won't work out. Decisions made by the Steibrenner-Tampa axis over the last few years probably carry an even greater risk, because their judgment isn't awfully good. But the Yankees took this gamble, and lost. That's not Pavano's fault.

As for the sympathy on this site, I think we all have some form of Stockholm Syndrome when it comes to Ortiz -- you know, if you're held hostage long enough, you begin to relate to your captors...

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/hotsheet/262342.html

Papi is indeed one scary dude, but I'm more afraid of Manny than Papi. Manny is a hitting savant - a rainman among right handed sluggers. Papi can be handled - although careful handling is required. He is making outs 3/4's of the time this year, just about. The key is making sure the 1/4th of the time doesn't cost you the game.

Manny, on the other hand, you just never know. After what he did to Proctor this year - the guy scares me.

Maybe Cashman, as his "disciplinary action", should take away Pav's Porsche and whatever other sports cars he has and give him a Minivan with anti-lock brakes, all season tires, side cushion air bags, cup holders, and fold down seats.

Just like mine. :-)

Heck - he can HAVE mine. I'll take his beat up Porsche in exchange. The kids can ride in - well - they can walk.

As for Pavano, I'd like to leave all talk about him behind - no pun intended - and instead discuss these numbers:

BP Postseason Odds
Generated Tue Aug 29 08:54:53 EDT 2006

Yanks
Chance of Winning Division: 98.32712
Chance of Winning WC: .16378
Chance of Making Playoffs: 98.49089

Red Sox
Chance of Winning Division: 1.33212
Chance of Winning WC: 1.54203
Chance of Making Playoffs: 2.87414

And with that, I think Bob B brings up a great point in 20. I'd much rather face the White Sox in the first round, because their pitching is probably the worst of all the playoff contenders.

I laughed at the notion of Pavano making a comeback this season right after it was mentioned in the euphoria of the sweep, partically due to my latent cynicism, but mainly because of my suspicion of someone who has suffered various muscle and bone injuries over a year and a half of time suddenly zooming through rehabs within two weeks and making a difference. There's more to it than Pavano knows or is willing to admit, and in light of how he chose to disclose this latest ailment; if it were my money and my concern, I'd send him through a regimen of physical tests to ensure that there is nothing more than muscle and bone damage from wear and tear that has occurred from the moment he signed to now.

These discussions at some point bring yet another issue I can relate to in one way or another. I'll share some insight with you that I kind of correlate to both Big Papi and Pavano...

When I was in high school, I began having grand mal seizures. I was pretty atheletic then; though not for school, I played plenty of basbeball and basketball, not to mention intramural football. The first seizure is always frightening and bewildering because you have no idea why it happens. But what was probably the most frightening experience of my previous life occurred after the on-court death of Hank Gathers; you see, it was during a battery of neurological, physical and other tests that the doctors discovered Wolfe-Parkinson-White Syndrome; a congenatal defect in the heart caused something like a short-cut that made the heart beat three times instead of two. I was scheduled for a cathederization to "fix" this issue.

Then on TV, I watched Hank Gathers do a slam, wobble halfway down the court and drop dead. It was attributed to a congenatal heart condition.

I say this for two reasons: imagine what could be going through anyone's mind when they witness someone die of something that you might possibly have yourself. Even if it's not exactly the same condition, you at least wonder aloud. How many atheletes have died under similar circumstances? And not just atheletes?

There is something to be said about health issues in sports, be it a tweak or something more sinister or drastic, but right now no one really knows. I hope for both Ortiz and Pavano's sakes that they get themselves really checked out beyond just sports medicine; though I have jokes about Pavano, I cannot overlook my concern that there is a deeper health issue that should be looked into. I hate taking speculation seriously, that's why if nothing else Cashman and certainly Steinbrenner should encourage an intense check-up for his own sake.

And saludos to him and Big Papi.

My co-worker then asked me a follow-up question, would you feel the same if it were Schilling? I'm not going to say what my answer was...but you can imagine. I already said something in jest (yesterday) about Pavano and the PC police jumped on me. I'm a little smarter today so I'll refrain from putting into text my loathing of all things Curt Schilling. I'll never have any sympathy for Schilling, his comments and rants have never been very sympathetic to Yankee fans.

I don't know about the Chisox, something about them scares the crap out of me. I put them in the category of be careful what you wish for you just might get it. I know their pitching looks a little sketchy right now but you never know what's going to happen when the lights go on in October. Not that the Twinkies will be a walk in the park either.

As things stand though I'm truly glad that the #*#%ing Angels are 8.5 out in the WC. Now if the A's can just hold on….

63 MFD, ask and ye shall receive! randym's got the lineups, I'll post BP's postseason odds daily if possible.

60 Will, that's exactly the kind of Pavano talk that ought to be said, no apologies needed. Its really easy to make fun of 'Glass Carl', I certainly have - but your post brought a lot of perspective to the discussion, and I was glad to read it.

Don't know about you, but my favorite part of MLK's I have a dream speach is where he said that "I have a dream that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character", and this is what I was trying to pint to.

BTW - Delta Socrates is a radio call sign I received as an election observer in Panama's 1999 elections (Baseball Primer readers know that I'm from Panama, in Latim America), and I have used it for years.

Why not simply criticize Pavano for being a fragile wuss, or whatever you perceive him to be, and leave race out of it? Why, in this day and age, bring up the fact that he's a white fragile wuss (your assessment) ?

I don't see bringing up the races of the players as celebrating "progress," but more as stumbling backward. That's how I read 37 and maintain it was not necessary.

This is an odd situation: One fellow says that race isn't the divisive issue it once was...and another fellow gets offended at the mention of race. And...and...my head is spinning.

Weather calls for 70% chance of rain, but it won't be heavy. I bet they get the game in.

Pavano could have a brittle bone structure - again, something that may have been tied to his family health history.

It's a stretch, I realize. :-P

This is interesting not only because of the Yankees - Red Sox allegiances, but because of the different origins/ethnicities/skin color of the participants.

Go back to read my comment 37 and you'll see that while I mentioned the skin color of Ortiz and Pavano, I also mentioned their different origins/ethnicities (one being Latin, the other from Ct.).

FOr some reason, you decided to focus on race: all the more power to you, but I think that the rest of the board picked up on what I wanted to focus on and is moving on.

I suggest you go back and read 37 and omit the words, "black," "Latin," and "Caucasian." Now, was that what you were trying to say?

I'm not the one who decided to focus on race.

Yes, let's move on from this discussion.

"It was reported today that he hit a garbage truck. That is somehow fitting."

Too bad he wasn't thrown from the vehicle and into the back of the truck, and promptly hauled away.

What I sense that Sliced is objecting to is in the vein of 'why preach to the choir'? I only speak for myself when I say that the point is worth making very strongly, but there are arenas where that point would have a much better and necessary effect; I don't see this particular thread as evidence that the sentiment, though appreciated, is absolutely necessary (yet.)

And, having taken a while to write this, I refer anyone reading this to 60 if the point has already been beaten to death.

If Wang doesn't finish top 5 in the voting, however, I'd be shocked.

What we need, is a Yankees' game tonight. Let's hope all the raining so far is enough for the day.

(sigh)

The schedule on the right says Wang vs Santana on Sunday. Maybe Cy Wang (tm: Peter Abraham) can show the Cy Young voters a thing or two in a head-to-head matchup. I gotta watch that one.

My recommendation would be for a slick and slim, 80's porn style ala Sheff.

On the other hand, their first-round picks are frequently players who've dropped because of "signability problems." A lot of those may still filter down to the Yankees.

Maybe Cashman was talking about playing generally.