Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
Every Which Way (But Lose)
2006-08-21 05:15
by Alex Belth

In what was perhaps the most important game of the year for the Red Sox, the Yankees found a way to win, coming-from-behind against Curt Schilling, and then Jonathan Paplebon, and beating Boston 8-5, in 10 innings. It should come as no surprise that the game last well over four hours. Derek Jeter, Jason Giambi and Jorge Posada led the way with the sticks (oh, and Bobby Abreu had two more hits and another walk, too), while Scott Proctor and Mariano Rivera performed well enough out of the pen. The Yankees have won the first four games of this five-game set with the Red Sox, and now lead the AL East by five-and-a-half games. There is still another game to play, the Yankees have not secured a playoff spot yet, nor have the Red Sox been illiminated from contention. That said, you'd be hard-pressed not to be thrilled and delighted if you are a Yankee fan this morning.

The only major cause for concern involves Mike Mussina, who left the game after the fourth inning with a strained groin. This is not the first time Mussina has felt discomfort in his groin this season. After rain delayed the game following the second inning, Moose only returned for two more innings before bowing out. The Yankees can only hope that he won't be lost for a serious amount of time. Nuts as it sounds, Carl Pavano can't return soon enough. (In other injury news, it doesn't appear as if Kyle Farnsworth is seriously hurt.)

The loss was a crusher for the Sox, who held leads of 3-0, 4-3, 5-3, and 5-4. David Ortiz had a strong game, as did Manny Ramirez, who scorched the ball all weekend when he wasn't being walked. Giambi hit a three-run dinger off Schilling in the third, and drove in Johnny Damon with a long sac fly in the eighth. Paplebon was now in the game--finally--and he struck out Posada and Robinson Cano with the bases loaded to escape further trouble. He almost pulled another trick out of his hat in the ninth, but got burned. Melky Cabrera led off with double and advanced to third on a wild pitch. But Bernie Williams and Damon struck out and the Yanks were down to their last out when Jeter dunked a single into right field to drive in the tying run. According to The Boston Globe:

"We're not catching any breaks," Papelbon said. "It's very simple. That's basically it. Prime example tonight, I go out there and try to execute a pitch to Jeter with two outs and he bloops one in there in front of our right fielder. There's nothing really you can do about that. You go out there and you try to execute a pitch and that's all you can do. You can't control the rest.

"I was 100 percent tonight. I felt good. I went out there and it was going to be a battle. I knew those last six outs were going to be the toughest six outs of the ballgame. I went out there and tried to get my strikeouts and get my pop flies when I had to. It's very simple for us right now. Things aren't going our way and we've got to find a way to get things going our way."

Fenway came alive in the bottom of the ninth when Ortiz doubled and then Ramirez was intentionally walked to start the inning. Kevin Youkilis sacrificed and Ortiz was cut down at third. But then Rivera threw a wild pitch and suddenly Ramirez and Youkilis were on second and third. Mike Lowell was walked intentionally and Eric Hinske pinch-hit. The crowd was really juiced now, with the winning run just 90 feet away. But Rivera struck out Hinske and then got Doug Mirabelli to tap a grounder to the mound. Money.

Giambi lined a solo home run off Craig Hansen to kick-off the tenth, and two batters later (Rodriguez whiff, Cano double), Posada snuck a two-run shot around the Pesky pole in right field. Rivera allowed a harmless, two-out single to Mark Loretta in the bottom of the inning, and retired Ortiz on a fly ball to right to nail down the save and the win.

Noted Red Sox writer/fans, Seth Mnookin and Bill Simmons consider what has gone wrong in Boston:

A few days ago, Mnookin wrote:

It's hard to look objectively at this year and see a team that had decided to throw in the towel. The 2006 Red Sox have a $120 million payroll. Among this year's new acquisitions, there's Mike Lowell, a $9 million third baseman. The Sox spent $5.5 for two middle relievers, and a combined $6 million for a shortstop and second baseman. That, right there, is higher than the Florida Marlins payroll, and more than half of that of the Tampa Bay Devil Rays. Instead of Mike Lowell, Alex Gonzalez, Mark Loretta, and Kevin Youkilis — a $15 million infield — the Sox could have had Andy Marte, Hanley Ramirez, Dustin Pedroia, and Youkilis — a $1.25 million infield (slightly more if you factor in the money the Sox sent to Atlanta in the Renteria-Marte deal). Instead of Rudy Seanez and Julian Tavarez, the Sox could have begun the season with Sanchez and Hansen, for a savings of about $5.5 million. Instead of Beckett, they could have begun the year with a rotation of Schilling, Wakefield, Clement, Wells, and Papelbon, with Foulke out there as the closer, Lenny DiNardo as a backup starter, and Arroyo sent packing for Wily Mo Pena, who would have been the team's full-time center fielder. That, my friends, would have been a rebuilding year.

Instead — and despite the fact that the Sox were basically held together in 2005 by spit, luck, Damon, Ortiz, and Ramirez — Boston made a series of moves it thought would both allow the team to compete in 2006 and compete down the road. (I'm not going to argue the Damon non-signing again. The Sox couldn't have re-signed Damon unless they'd offered him a seven-year deal. And I still think within a year or two we'll all be glad Johnny's not picking up his annual $13 million check from Yawkey Way.)

So what happened? Well, where do you want to start? Jason Varitek hit like a shell of his former self; then he got injured. Trot Nixon hit for less power than at any point in his career; then he got injured. Matt Clement, David Wells, Tim Wakefield, and Keith Foulke all spent (or are spending) serious time on the DL. Coco Crisp got injured and had a harder time adjusting to Boston than was predicted. Mike Timlin got injured and stopped looking like an ultra-durable 33-year old and started looking more like the 40-year old he actually is. Seanez and Tavarez were both busts. That's a whole mess of crappy luck. The real mystery isn't why the Sox are sucking right now; the real mystery is how they managed to do so well for so long with so much going wrong.

To which Simmons adds:

Here's what I like [about the Red Sox]: Big Papi, Manny, Schilling, Papelbon, Youkilis, Lowell and Gonzalez on the left side of the infield; Jon Lester's potential; Wily Mo in any game where the Red Sox are leading or trailing by four runs or more.

Here's what I don't like: Everything else.

Bottom line: They overachieved in the first half because of Papelbon (who was simply out of his mind) and Big Papi (who probably swung 6-7 games in Boston's favor it had no business winning). Now the Sox are underacheiving. It's probably a 92-win team at best. And I could spend the next 3,000 words ranting and raving about the unacceptable performance of the Henry/Theo regime since they won the World Series -- the catastrophic Renteria/Clement signings; lowballing Pedro/Damon, then half-heartedly renewing talks at the last second; overvaluing Beckett (a genuine disappointment) and Crisp (a colossal disappointment); undervaluing their own prospects (Hanley Ramirez and Anibal Sanchez) in the Beckett trade; freezing at this year's trading deadline; dealing Arroyo without knowing about the health of Wells and Foulke; allowing 40-year-old Mike Timlin to pitch in the WBC (he's a walking corpse now); letting Roberts and Cabrera go; handing Beckett that unconscionable $30 million extension (I yelped out loud when I saw the headline); and we haven't even mentioned last winter's soap opera with Theo yet -- but I don't want to ruin my chances of getting a key to the office next season. So let's just say that everyone did a swell job and I fully support every moronic decision that was made. Now where's my key?

Boston still has a chance to salvage the last game of the series today with the rubber-armed Boomer Wells going up against Corey Lidle. Both teams are headed out west tonight.

Comments (92)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-08-21 06:25:46
1.   rbj
I missed all the late game theatrics. Nice to wake up to yet another Yankee win. Today's the day to thrust the dagger all the way through and finish Boston off. Still, a 4-1 split in the series would be ok. (OK? If I'd been promised a 4-1 Yankee win of the series going in, I would have been ecstatic.)

Just no Proctor or Villone today.

2006-08-21 06:29:58
2.   Upperdeck
Here's a great quote from Villone about the bullpen's usage.

"I don't want to be teammates with guys who want to pitch some of the time."

2006-08-21 06:31:42
3.   LA Yankee
Hard not to smile today! Went out on Sat night, and saw many Yankee hats. Nice to see those "B" caps going back into the closets where they belong. So what starters sit today?
2006-08-21 06:35:37
4.   Alex Belth
I believe that Jeter will DH today. I imagine that Giambi will sit today, with Wilson playing first, and that Jorge will sit, with Fassano catching.
2006-08-21 06:36:43
5.   unpopster
It's an absolutely gorgeous day in New York City. The sun is out, there's a slight breeze in the air, and the birds were actually chirping as I was waking up from my too-short 5 hours of sleep.

I walked to work today, through Times Square and Herald Square to Madison Square Park...and I don't think my feet hit the ground once.

There is absolutely nothing that will ever take way the horrible memory of the 2004 ALCS collapse. History can not be erased -- there is no denying that. But this, The Boston Massacre Pt. II, finally takes away a little bit of that stinging feeling of 2004. Miraculously, that four game collapse suddenly seems like a long, long time ago.

Torre will undoubtadly sit some of regulars today, but given the chance he will go for the jugular...stick the knife in deeper and twist, twist, twist.

Yes, 'tis a beautiful day in New York.

2006-08-21 06:40:50
6.   profound
Shhhhhh...if you listen really close, and hold your hand to your ear and face north, YOU CAN HEAR THEM CRY! :)
2006-08-21 06:43:11
7.   Ron Burgundy
I don't think they even sell life insurance in Bahston. I sure as hell wouldn't, not with the Yanks in town.
2006-08-21 06:46:07
8.   RIYank
One other cause for concern:
Proctor has thrown more pitches than any other reliever in baseball; Villone is third.

Today Red Sox Nation media are killing Francona for allowing Timlin and Lopez to load the bases before calling on Papelbon. On the radio they're also replaying Mike Timlin's remarks from last week to the effect that the pitching staff has (had) been getting the job done but the offense just wasn't scoring enough runs. (!)

2006-08-21 06:51:44
9.   Yankee Fan In Boston
it was an awfully quiet ride on the subway this morning.

i got 3 hours of sleep.

i am ecstatic.

that said, i hope moose is alright and that lidle can eat some innings today.

this isn't over yet.

almost 40 games left.

(then the playoffs...)

but, i gotta say, this feels pretty darned nice this morning.

2006-08-21 06:51:55
10.   Alex Belth
From Buster Olney's blog this morning:

"The disparity between the Yankees and the Red Sox in money is enormous, writes Nick Cafardo, and this year, that may make a difference.

Here's the thing on that, though. The Red Sox may not spend as much as the Yankees, they may not believe that they should. But consider the incredible sources of income for the team -- perhaps the best local revenue streams of any club, with NESN and tremendous local radio coverage and advertising; the expansion of Fenway Park; the highest seat prices in the majors; the surprising and enormous dollars that every team is getting for the success of; dramatically increased concessions, with dozens of additional beer taps in the park to charge big money for the brew. It is apparent that the Red Sox are grossing enormous amounts of money.

The Red Sox have basically held to their budget since they won the World Series in 2004. I don't have access to their books -- the next writer who does will be the first -- but this does beg a question: Where is the additional money going?

George Steinbrenner has rightly been criticized over the years for exorbitant spending, for crazy financial decisions on mediocre players. But he plows a lot of his profit back into the team.

Are the Red Sox doing that?

The new ownership group has been wonderful for the franchise, a blessing, and has worked overtime to make sure that a fan's experience at Fenway Park is enhanced.

Are they spending the extra money needed to make sure they have a left-handed reliever or two down the stretch, or to make sure that Johnny Damon doesn't sign with the Yankees?

This year, they didn't.

When the Yankees play the Minnesota Twins, or the Oakland Athletics, it is a David vs. Goliath type situation. The Twins cannot compete with the Yankees' resources, and they'll never have multi-million dollar middle relievers and bench players.

I don't begrudge any privately owned company the right to make money, and keep it. The Red Sox are a terrifically run business. They can spend or not spend as they see fit; that is their right.

But let's not be fooled here. The Red Sox have money."

2006-08-21 06:53:58
11.   Ron Burgundy
10 But I thought they were just small-town team with a small-time budget. Hell, that's what ESPN has been telling me, especially after they took the record for the highest payroll to ever win the World Series. I hate Sawx fans who complain about payroll.
2006-08-21 06:54:07
12.   Sliced Bread
Jeter and Rivera. How many times have they come through for us in the past ten years?
Undisputed MLB Co-MVP's 1996-2006. They're every bit as great as we'll remember they were 20 years from now. When we tell our grandkids about them we won't be exaggerating. Amazing.

Giambi is a monster, and even if the ESPNers won't acknowledge it, he's every bit as dangerous as Boston's crushers. He's hitting like the MVP slugger he was before the Yanks signed him, except the doubles he used to smack are now home runs and looooong sacrifice flys. Pretty soon the Giambi shift will be 8 guys along the warning track in right. I love watching this guy.

The way this lineup has been hitting I think our old pal Boomer gets slapped around Fenway today.

2006-08-21 06:57:12
13.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
What a joke that Pamplemousse is whining about Jeter's "lucky" hit. How many of those little dinks have they got against Mo to start rallies over the years. The same whining was going on at Sons of Sam Horn last night when I peeked in out of pure unadulterated sadism.

Hello, M. Pamplemousse. Hello Sawx fans. Giambi smashed a ball against your star closer that would've been a grand slam at Yankee Stadium, indeed at most ball parks, and that almost went out in Fenway. Y'all should've been trailing by 3 runs in the 8th.

Meanwhile, I find it hilarious that Simmons still like AGon on the left side. For chrissakes, the guy can't field or hit. Dude, wake up. There's a reason he's been platooning with Ale Cora of all people, and has sat for the last 3 games. Excuses about a bad knee aside, the dude sucks, and Cora is a better option.

2006-08-21 06:58:44
14.   Yankee Fan In Boston
the yankee hitters HAVE to be exhausted, though. think about it, and i'm not trying to be a jerk, but they've been running all weekend.

both teams have to be wiped out. they've played a week's worth of baseball this weekend.

do you think anybody got any good sleep last night?

i couldn't.

...and i'm not papelbon or JoPo...

this could go either way.

god, i love this game.

2006-08-21 06:59:02
15.   Dimelo
I am speechless. I spent my Friday watching the first game at Rory Dolan's in the Bronx, the 2nd game at a bar in Washington Heights. I finally got my voice back today. Though, I still haven't fully recovered from all the chemicals in my bloodstream.

I don't think I ever could have imagined such a as* whipping of the Boston Red Sox.

I can't help but think of the Scarface line, "Hey Manolo", Manolo replies, "Yeah Tony?", Tony replies, "kill that piece of sh|t".

Hey Yankees, Kill those pieces of sh|t. Get 5!!!

2006-08-21 07:01:42
16.   rsmith51
I went to bed after the eighth when the Yanks blew the chance again(3 times yesterday or was it 4?) to get a runner in from 3rd with less than 2 outs. Papelbon says they aren't getting the breaks. That sounds like 3 breaks. In addition, the dying quails from Lowell and Mirabelli. They got their breaks, but the Yanks just grinded out the win. Go Yanks!
2006-08-21 07:07:00
17.   unpopster
16 "grind" is the appropriate word...

Can these mutherf#@$ers grind it or what?!?!?!

Damn I love this team!!

2006-08-21 07:12:50
18.   yankz
On Mike and Mike (forgive me) this morning, one of the jackasses said the Red Sox would be below .500 without Ortiz. Which, according to my calculations, would make his VORP roughly a gajillion.
2006-08-21 07:13:51
19.   rsmith51
I found it a little peculiar that the Sox didn't pinch-run for Papi in the bottom of the ninth. Anybody else find that odd?
2006-08-21 07:15:40
20.   mehmattski
My favorite post-game quote of all is Papi's: "Its not fair..."

Reportedly he then stamped his feet and broke his sippy cup, after which he was sent to bed without dinner...

The general reaction of most Red Sox fans seems to be: "well, the Patriots start playing soon..." I really hope that nether team makes the playoffs, and the entire fanbase jumps into the icy January Atlantic. Is that too morbid?

2006-08-21 07:17:44
21.   yankz
20 I bet missing a meal would make him cry more than losing a world series.
2006-08-21 07:19:36
22.   RIYank
18 I was listening to them too, for a while. They're so freaking stupid, it's a blast to hear them on a day like today.

19 I don't get that either. Though in fact, of course, he did come to bat again. Ortiz did.

20 Not my interpretation -- to me it means he's taking it well, making a little joke, has the proper perspective, etc. If he weren't Senor Clutch himself, he could be called out for not taking things seriously enough, but obviously he's completely immune to that criticism.

And yeah, all eyes are beginning to turn to the Pats here in New England....

2006-08-21 07:22:39
23.   rbj
20 Lucky for me I was eating a banana when I read your post. Otherwise I'd have coffe all over my keyboard.
2006-08-21 07:23:31
24.   JL25and3
12 I'm not so confident about Boomer getting slapped around. The key to the Yankee offense has been the complete inability of Red Sox pitchers to get the ball over the plate. Say what you will about Boomer, he'll throw strikes.

10 God I"m so glad to hear someone else say that. There's absolutely no excuse for the Sox to plead poverty, because they can print money if they want. (In fact, I'll add one other factor to Olney's list: the Sox own Fenway and the land it's on.) They should never let money alone stand in the way of making a move, but they do it all the time. They didn't get Abreu because they weren't willing to take on his contract; the Yankees were. They didn't get ARod because they wanted to trade their own $20 million player for him, they wanted Texas to pick up salary, and they wanted Rodriguez to renegotiate his contract - all money issues. (And whatever you think of ARod's clutchitudeness, take him off the Yankees and put him on the Red Sox, and the last couple of years look very different.)

2006-08-21 07:23:49
25.   JeremyM
Yeah, Ortiz was just joking around, although he did look kind of shell-shocked.

As far as Jeter's "lucky hit", he's one of those guys that intentionally tries to shoot those little flares into right field. He's been doing it his whole career. It's not exactly pretty but I'll take it.

2006-08-21 07:24:38
26.   RIYank
One nice quote missing from Alex's fine collection above:

"You know, I don't think there's anything to say," Mussina said. "That's what he does and that's why he's the best that's ever been and I'm glad he's on our side."

And I won't insult anybody by explaining who he was talking about.

2006-08-21 07:25:48
27.   JL25and3
26 Nick Green?
2006-08-21 07:30:38
28.   IowaBoy
After the wild pitch (passed ball) in the 9th, I think Mariano wanted to get Posada out of the soup, for a friend.... It was like... "these three strikes (all high cheese) against Hinske are for you Georgie"... for always being there at the end of games when I need ya.
2006-08-21 07:34:02
29.   Bama Yankee
In a "Back to the Future II" / "Quantum Leap" type of way, lets hope that the last four games have restored some order to the rivalry. Last night's game was the way the 2004 ALCS was supposed to end and maybe it took the Yankees a couple of years to find the correct formula to fix the tear in the space-time continuum and thus "re-installing" the curse. If so, maybe we will see Fasano and the boys use their new 'staches to get the sweep today...
Lets go Yankees!
2006-08-21 07:39:12
30.   Matt B
I had to keep reminding myself that it's only August and we've won nothing yet - it was that nerve-wracking and exhilarating. I love the way this team keeps gutting it out, and you know, I think a lot of that comes from Torre. I criticize Joe as much as anyone for his moves, but he sets the tone. Just because you have great players on your team doesn't mean they'll play hard together or show up night after night. We've seen teams that were collections of all-stars who couldn't care less, especially if the breaks started to go the other way. They're a damn scrappy bunch of superstars, that's for sure.
2006-08-21 07:39:43
31.   Matt B
...and I'm greedy and I want 5. Let's go Cory.
2006-08-21 07:44:51
32.   C2Coke
I kinda couldn't believe it last night. I was already preparing myself mentally to take the loss simply because I wanted to sleep. But, nothing was on Boston's side last night. When they had it earlier in the game, it got rained out, later Giambi's HR...and it just wouldn't end.

Proctor played a big part in winning this series nicely.

I knew the Yankees were reserving their real skills for this weekend, now I just hope the Yanks try and save some breath in them for the next series.

2006-08-21 07:49:52
33.   Shaun P
I still can't believe it. 4 in a row. I want the sweep badly, but I won't be sad if it doesn't happen.

Don't know about the weather in the Fens, but in the Franklin MA area its very cloudy right now. Matches the mood of the populace very well.

2006-08-21 07:50:12
34.   unpopster
32 no matter how today turns out and how much the pens get used, the Yanks go out to play Seattle -- who have now lost 11 in a row -- and the Sawx go to play the scrappy Angels.

Whatever the Yanks do against the Mariners, it's a safe bet that the Sawx, and their devestated bullpen, will be crushed by the Halos.

By this time on Friday, the Yanks will either have an even larger lead in the AL east or at the very least, an equal one.

Having said that, i think Torre's gameplan for today is have Lidle give him as much as he can and then hand the ball over to Karsten and Dotel -- win or lose.

2006-08-21 07:54:28
35.   Sliced Bread
What's the word on Farnswacker? Available?
2006-08-21 07:56:25
36.   RIYank
Weather forecast: no rain. Partly cloudy today.
2006-08-21 08:00:49
37.   Sliced Bread
Also, did you catch Joe's expression after Posada's Pesky poler? He looked so happy and proud he was going to cry. I love that about Joe.
2006-08-21 08:08:08
38.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
Mnookin's piece also puts the lie to Epstein's claims about building for the future. It's astonishing the young talent the Sawx have pissed away in the last year -- Marte, Hanley R., Anibal Sanchez, Bard, Shoppach, et al. -- and what have they wound up with, overpriced vets like Lowell, the dreadful AGon, Mirabelli, etc.
2006-08-21 08:09:19
39.   Simone
10 Finally, one of ESPN's writers call the Red Sox ownership on their cheapness. I am so sick of hearing Theo Epstein and the Red Sox fans cry poverty on behalf of the billionaire John Henry. Not having money is not an excuse for the Red Sox, period. They are making money hand over fist, Henry and the other owners can't give up a few millions to get a reliever or two? Please.
2006-08-21 08:11:08
40.   Simone
37 I saw that look on Joe's face also. I thought that he was about to cry. It is wonderful that magical moments in this game can move grown men to tears.
2006-08-21 08:24:21
41.   pistolpete
38 I still contend that 2004 was- and will be for a very long time - a 'fluke' in the largest sense of the word. If not for Kevin 'Dirty Harry' Brown, we probably wouldn't be even talking about a need to avenge that ALCS.

This team has always been mismanaged- both on and off the field, and now they're simply returning to their old habits. Call it hard luck, call it a curse, call it a defeatist attitude, but make no mistake - it's back.

2006-08-21 08:29:35
42.   Yankee Fan In Boston
41 I call it a terrible weekend.

if moose is really hurt, we might be seeing a couple of those ourselves.

2006-08-21 08:32:13
43.   rsmith51
The Yanks have scored the most runs in the majors thanks to their big weekend. They won't get 1000, but that is nice to hear.
2006-08-21 08:33:22
44.   randym77
The Sox have sent Craig Hansen down.

Bryan Corey has been called up.

2006-08-21 08:33:59
45.   standuptriple
I got one of those moments last night, like when Yogi said (paraphrasing), "We've been beating those guys for 80 years." The confidence, the drive, the effort, the class of the Yankees. Keep their feet to the fire boys.
Who doesn't like playing with house money?
2006-08-21 08:38:01
46.   RIYank
41 I don't really see that the Red Sox have been mismanaged on the field this year. Although here's one mistake that I don't think has been mentioned: ordering Kevin Youkilis to bunt in the ninth. Take a look at his ML bunting record: he has ZERO successful SH. (I believe he had a grand total of one in the minors.)
2006-08-21 08:38:34
47.   thirtythr33
Love the site. First time poster, been reading throughout this 2006 season. One gripe, please use spell-check! And maybe a little proofreading for grammar would be nice as well.....

With that said, last night's game might have been our best I've seen all year. Game 1 was amazing offensively, but the way we played last night, it's going to take a whole lot to stop this machine. Go Yanks!!

2006-08-21 08:38:54
48.   Alvaro Espinoza
8 Tito was late w/ his moves all around last night. They should also be killing him for allowing Pena to hit in the 7th. He should have gone for the jugular and PH'd Hinske. Instead he waited for the Yanks to tie the game and then used him incorrectly (a lefty) vs. Mo and his cutter (even though it was the straight cheese that got him).
2006-08-21 08:41:55
49.   Alex Belth
Hey 47, glad you like the site. I take full responsibility for any sloppiness. Man, I wish this thing had a spell-check...
2006-08-21 08:46:57
50.   randym77
Yes, it's House Money day:

1. Melky Cabrera, LF
2. Derek Jeter, DH
3. Bobby Abreu, RF
4. Alex Rodriguez, 3B
5. Robinson Cano, 2B
6. Craig Wilson, 1B
7. Bernie Williams, CF
8. Sal Fasano, C
9. Nick Green, SS

P -- Cory Lidle

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-08-21 08:49:23
51.   randym77
And here's the Sox. A-Gon is questionable. He's still having back problems.

1. Coco Crisp, CF
2. Mark Loretta, 2B
3. David Ortiz, DH
4. Manny Ramirez, LF
5. Eric Hinske, 1B
6. Mike Lowell, 3B
7. Wily Mo Pena, RF
8. Javy Lopez, C
9. Alex Gonzalez, SS

P -- David Wells

2006-08-21 08:52:29
52.   profound
Im suprised since hes sittin Jeter today hes not putting A-rod at SS. Really says alot about Joes fear to eff with his state of mind and comfort level.

We have the best backup shortstop in baseball, and when our SS is out, he still plays third...ponderous.

2006-08-21 08:53:56
53.   Sliced Bread
50 Certainly giving Boomah a shot with that lineup.
Had you projected an August 21st Yankees lineup with those names on it back in March you would have been laughed off the Bronx Banter.
House Money prediction:Fasano hits a 3 run shot off Wells.

More realistic prediction: Damon, Giambi, and Posada will enter the game.

2006-08-21 08:54:00
54.   monkeypants
And Torre's love affair with Bernie CF continues. I wonder how many times a player has been removed from RF for a defensive replacement one night, only to start in CF the next? I don't know how Wilson compares to Bernie in the OF, but Torre might be starting the worst OF on the team in CF.
2006-08-21 08:56:49
55.   Schteeve
That 4 pitch strike out of Hinske by Rivera was the game last night. An absolutely Jordanesque (Oh hell no, we're not losing) moment. There was a slight look of satisfaction that Mo seemed to be trying to fight off as he walked off the mound later.


2006-08-21 08:59:57
56.   monkeypants
52 Torre just doesn't playmost people at multiple positions. See, A-Rod is the 3B, so he can only play 3B. Melky is a LF, so cannot play CF. Since no starter can play multiple positions, you have to carry a bunch of designated back-up players (Bernie is back-up CF, Fasano is back-up C, etc.). Their function is determined soley by their designated position, and thus the team frequently must sacrifice any pretense of offense from the back-up position.

I am estatic that they took at least 4 out of 5; that does not mean I have to agree with the way substitutions are handled.

OK what is the prediction:

1. Horrible scrubs get blown out.

2. Horrible scrubs hang in but squander opportunities, keeping the game close and compelling Torre to bring all the starters, as well as Proctor, Villone, and Mo into the game?

2006-08-21 09:00:41
57.   pistolpete
42 Tampa Bay, Kansas City - those series ring a bell? Losing 7+ games in the standings - both last year and this, seems like a far cry from a 'bad weekend'.

46 I'm probably exaggerating, but it does seem like the 'jump off a bridge' mentality has returned.

49 Alex - how do you enter the posts? My suggestion would be to work them up in an application that DOES have spell check, then simply cut n' paste. I'm lucky enough to work in Safari on a Mac (built in spell check), but there's no accounting for my redundancy or bad grammar sometimes...


2006-08-21 09:01:18
58.   monkeypants
56 That should have been 'ecstatic.' Sorry 47.
2006-08-21 09:02:41
59.   randym77
54 Torre may be starting the worst OFer in the league in CF.

I don't think Wilson has ever played CF. He's okay in the corners, but they don't think he has the range to play CF.

The conventional wisdom on Guiel is the same - good for the corners, not enough range for CF. But I would give him a shot over Bernie or Wilson. He has played CF occasionally in the big leagues, and was used in CF in Columbus sometimes. But I guess with a lefty on the mound, that wasn't an option.

It may not be an option, anyway. Joe doesn't seem to trust Wilson, Abreu, or Guiel in CF.

2006-08-21 09:03:34
60.   RIYank
House Money prediction:
A-Rod goes yard of Boomer.
2006-08-21 09:04:40
61.   jonm
Who did the Yankees drop to make room for Lidle's activation from the bereavement list?
Guiel? Karstens?
2006-08-21 09:05:13
62.   pistolpete
57 Well, not as many games in the standings in '05, but before '03, Boston was famous for their late-season swoons. Seems eerily similar nowadays, doesn't it?
2006-08-21 09:08:04
63.   domvjr
61. Beam was sent back to Columbus!
2006-08-21 09:09:15
64.   randym77
57 Boston has now lost 11 of their last 15 games. They are collapsing.

Of course it's always sweet to kick Boston's butt, but I can't help wondering...are we this good, or are they that bad? Before this series, we were a .500 team since the new lineup solidified.

2006-08-21 09:10:26
65.   Schteeve
One other thing, I've seen a lot of Papelbon bashing and insulting around here, but the dude has a sub 1 ERA. He's poised and confident on the mound and he has bad ass stuff and if he hadn't been facing Superman, he might just have been enough to beat the Yankees last night. So all the name calling seems a little capricious, he's a stud.
2006-08-21 09:10:41
66.   Kirribilli Yankee Fan
did they really send Hansen down ?

Their kids learned a valuable lesson about this rivalry this weekend, they were not around in 04 and this is what they know now...

2006-08-21 09:12:32
67.   RIYank
Schteeve, Papelbon is no longer sub-1! (Okay, I'm splitting hairs: he's at exactly 1.00 now.)
2006-08-21 09:13:50
68.   Schteeve
67 Dude, come on. ;)
2006-08-21 09:13:58
69.   Bama Yankee
47 Guud too hav yew weth uss, thirtythr33 ;-)
2006-08-21 09:15:21
70.   randym77
66 Yes, they really sent Hansen down. Probably told him last night; he left the clubhouse abruptly and wouldn't speak to reporters.

IMO, they rushed him. It wasn't fair to him. He's got a bright future with the Sox, but he's not ready yet.

2006-08-21 09:16:22
71.   Alvaro Espinoza
Via the Baseball Crank:

Yankees through July 31: 61-41 (.598), scoring 5.59 Runs/Game, allowing 4.80 Runs/Game.

Yankees August 1-20: 13-7 (.650), 6.15 Runs/Game, allowing 4.50 Runs/Game.

The difference: Bobby Abreu, batting .397/.526/.500 and scoring 113 runs per 162 games; Cory Lidle, 3.86 ERA in 3 starts. It really is as simple as that. Abreu, now second in the majors in OBP, batted .529/.706/.652 in this weekend's demolition of the Red Sox. Apparently Abreu didn't get the memo about how he wasn't supposed to be a big-game player.

2006-08-21 09:17:19
72.   jonm
I hope Torre just uses relievers from the following list today:
Karstens, Dotel, Myers, Farnsworth

He really can't use Villone, Procter, or Rivera today, can he?

2006-08-21 09:18:23
73.   Kirribilli Yankee Fan
he is going to be good, learned a lesson about this rivalry last night.....

Papelbon is nasty and will be for a long while...anyone who is ragging on this guy is a fool...

2006-08-21 09:19:07
74.   RIYank
68 ;-) Anyway, he's a stud, no doubt about it.
We should be grateful that he isn't starting. But for Foulke's awful early-season performance, the Boston rotation would be pretty d%*$ good right now.
2006-08-21 09:20:38
75.   Kirribilli Yankee Fan
the problem with FasaNO starting is now we lose our speed off the bench....who is going to pinch run ?

Maybe they wanted Wells not to feel bad and show him someone less athletic looking...we DFA Ponson so Sal "two slices extra cheese" Fasano is all we have

2006-08-21 09:22:42
76.   randym77
75 "Wheels" Wright, of course!
2006-08-21 09:24:00
77.   eephus
I know the outcome of today's game doesn't really matter, but I told myself the same thing yesterday, and I was still a ball of tension in that ninth inning. Now I smell blood and I want the sweep... the scrubs may be in, but there's nothing second-rate about the 1-5 hitters in today's lineup.

And, 65, I totally agree. Who knows what he'll do in the future, but the guy impressed the hell out of me last night. And as much as I hate to say it, so did Schilling... he is one of my absolute least-favorite players, I can't stand the guy, but damn if he didn't deliver again.

2006-08-21 09:24:06
78.   LA Yankee
Check out the photos on this blog.


2006-08-21 09:24:29
79.   Kirribilli Yankee Fan
with Ponson and Fasano we had the makings of the slowest MLB relay team possible, just needed two more....
2006-08-21 09:24:36
80.   eephus
75 76 Hee.
2006-08-21 09:32:53
81.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
65 70 Hansen may or may not turn into the Sawx closer of the future.

As the Sawx fans at SofSH have pointed out, his numbers against lefties are dreadful. He simply can't get them out.

He needs to develop a changeup for that. He was trying to in AA and AAA this year, but clearly hasn't yet. I'd say its up in the air whether he develops one good enough to get quality ML lefties out. If he doesn't he'll basically be a ROOGY.

As for Paps, he's clearly an outstanding closer.

However, that's not what the Sawx want from him. They want a top of the rotation starter.

Given that his numbers decline substantially, iirc, when he pitches more than one inning, I'd say it's questionable how good he can be as a ML starter.

I know you pitch differently if you know you only need 3 or 5 or 6 outs, you empty the tank quicker, use fewer types of pitches etc, but Paps as a closer, and Paps as a starter are 2 different animals (tho to his credit, his MiL numbers were much better than Lester's and Hansen's irrc, so maybe he has it in him).

2006-08-21 09:33:16
82.   pistolpete
78 Heh - the donut on the belt is hysterical.

'Save the season' seems ludicrous to me - there's still 40 games to go. A real 'season saver' would be winning a couple of series, not 1 out of 5 after 4 huge, crushing losses in a row.

George as The Emperor zapping Beckett made me laugh too.

2006-08-21 09:36:38
83.   Tarheel
This is a different subject, but did anyone read Mike Lupica's column in the Daily News yesterday where he had these 4 Yankees as "sources" basically bashing Arod? What is up with this guy? Is his main goal in life to try to cause problems with the Yankee clubhouse?
2006-08-21 09:36:39
84.   randym77
Pssst. There's a new game thread open.
2006-08-21 09:37:12
85.   Cliff Corcoran
78 Though I don't know the guys at NoMaas, it was pretty obvious to me that Dirt Dogs was their inspiration. That site's been around for a while.

Got a new post for the game thread up above. Since it's kinda last-minute I thought I'd point it out.

2006-08-21 09:39:23
86.   ChrisS
"Papelbon is nasty and will be for a long while...anyone who is ragging on this guy is a fool... "

Meh ... I'll rag on him only because after 20 or so games the Sawx were abuzz about how he's an amazing closer and then the MVP/CY Young talk started floating around in May. Then there were implications and innuendo that he was taking Mo's role as the most dominant closer in baseball.

Nope, won't stand for it.

My personal feeling is that wait until the league gets a good look at him, and if he's still doing this in 2 years with a sub-2 ERA, then so be it.

Like Jon Lester about how great he is, now that BB:K ratio is catching up with him and he's getting rocked.

2006-08-21 09:50:37
87.   Kirribilli Yankee Fan

agreed that the Mo-talk was pure nonsense and hype...also have seen more than 1 closer fizzle after a hot start..he has been around the league a few times now and people have seen him...still sitting on a 1.00 ERA and about 30 saves for a rookie

2006-08-21 09:51:51
88.   Bama Yankee
Hasn't Papelbon blown 3 out of his last 6 saves? Two of those were against KC and Tampa. He has good stuff, but he's still only pitched 97 innings in the big leagues. He may end up being a great pitcher for a long time, but the jury is still out in my book. BTW, didn't Chris Hammond have a sub 1.0 ERA one year? I realize that Pap-smear is no Chris Hammond, but he is not Bob Gibson either...
2006-08-21 10:58:53
89.   singledd
65 When it comes to Papsmear, the capricious name calling aside, I agree he's a stud, and will be trouble for us for years to come.
2006-08-21 11:03:33
90.   singledd
Boston had/has a LOT of young talent. Fortunately, they squandered some on Becket, Mirabelli and others. They still have some talent left, and more on the farm. Their farm will product more then ours for a few years. Hopefully, by 2010 we will catch up.
2006-08-21 11:04:17
91.   singledd
By the way... anybody feel there are 18 REALLY tired guys on the field today?
2006-08-21 12:29:18
92.   holmesy007
91 - including scott proctor... he's in the game again

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