Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
What Did Yogi Say?
2006-08-15 20:31
by Cliff Corcoran

Oh yeah, "it ain't over 'til it's over."

No doubt, as late as the middle of the sixth inning last night's game looked like a replay of Mike Mussina's last start against the Orioles, when the Yankees mustered just one hit against O's starter Adam Loewen while Moose allowed just three runs and was saddled with a hard-luck loss.

Indeed, the score was 3-0 O's after five and a half last night with the Yanks having managed just three singles and a walk through five and O's starter Erik Bedard having set down eleven Yanks in a row between the first and fifth innings. The Orioles, meanwhile, scored their first run on a one-out solo homer by Kevin Millar in the fifth then got two more in the sixth due in part to yet another Alex Rodriguez error.

Brian Roberts led off the sixth with a double and moved to third when Melvin Mora followed with a single. Miguel Tejada then flied out to right, but Roberts hold at third out of respect for Bobby Abreu's arm. Alas, Roberts would score anyway as Jay Gibbons followed with a single on an 0-2 pitch. Jeff Conine then hit Mussina's next offering right at Rodriguez at third, but as Alex charged the ball he got caught on an in-between hop and rather than turning an inning-ending double play he booted the ball and fired wide and late to first as Mora scored with the third Oriole run. Fortunately, Mike Mussina kept it together and picked up his third baseman by retiring the next two batters to strand Gibbons and Conine.

Fortunately, Bedard proved no more durable than Mussina on this night as, after the Yanks made a bit of noise in the fifth when Jorge Posada reached on an slow dribbler to third and Craig Wilson followed him with just the third Yankee single of the night, they finally broke through in the sixth. Jeter lead-off the inning with an infield single and was pushed to third when a pair of seven-pitch walks to Abreu and the mustachioed Jason Giambi loaded the bases for Rodriguez, who promptly redeemed himself with an RBI single.

Unfortunately, that run would be all the Yanks could muster from that bases loaded, no outs opportunity. Robinson Cano struck out swinging at a hard inside fastball for the first out. Jorge Posada then followed by lacing what looked like a sure game-tying double to left, but Melvin Mora lept straight up and snatched the ball out of the air for the second out. The ball was hit so hard that the impact of the ball in Mora's glove actually sprained his thumb, forcing him out of the game. Craig Wilson then grounded out on Bedard's next pitch to end the Yankee threat.

Abreu's arm was again a factor in the top of the seventh. On in relief of Mussina, who threw 104 pitches in his six innings, Ron Villone walked two of the three batters he faced. Scott Proctor then came in and surrendered a single to Chris Gomez, who had replaced Mora in the previous half inning, but the threat of Abreu's arm in right held lead runner Roberto Hernandez at third and kept him there after Tejada took an odd golf-like swing on a belt-high pitch and flew out to right. Indeed, Abreu fired a one-hop strike to Posada that likely would have nailed the Oriole catcher. Proctor then got Gibbons to fly out to escape the jam.

With Bedard's night also over after a Mussina-like 106 pitches over six innings, the Yanks did what the Orioles failed to do, by pouncing on the Baltimore bullpen. Melky Cabrera lead off the seventh against LaTroy Hawkins with a single and Johnny Damon followed with a home run into the old Yankee bullpen to tie the game. The home run was identical to his last, which came in Saturday's game against the Angels. Damon has now hit 11 of his 17 home runs at home, all to right field. Conversely 16 of his 25 doubles and three of his four triples have come on the road.

After Derek Jeter grounded out, Bobby Abreu doubled to right and took third when right fielder Nick Markakis misplayed the ball. The O's then intentionally walked Giambi to let the righty Hawkins face Rodriguez, who promptly fouled out to Millar on a first-pitch fastball in on his hands. Sam Perlozzo then brought in lefty Tim Byrdak to face Robinson Cano, who had struck out with the bases loaded and none out in the previous inning. This time Robbie got the job done by lacing a double over third that plated Abreu with the go-ahead run.

After Proctor worked a 1-2-3 eighth, The Yanks added two in the bottom of the inning when Damon tripled home a one-out Cabrera single and Jeter plated Damon with a sac fly to right to put the final score at 6-3. Mariano Rivera picked up the last three outs, though it took him 24 pitches to do so due to a seven-pitch strike out of Ramon Hernandez and an 11-pitch at-bat by Brian Roberts that ended in a two-out single.

Meanwhile, up in Boston the Red Sox lost a sterling pitchers duel between 39-year-old Curt Schilling and 23-year-old Jeremy Bonderman 3-2 when the Tigers' Craig Monroe delivered a two-out RBI single off Mike Timlin in the top of the ninth, negating a game-tying two-out single by David Ortiz from the previous half inning. The game was also notable for the fact that Ivan Rodriguez made his first major league appearance at second base after Placido Polanco separated his shoulder making a fantastic diving catch in the bottom of the seventh. Rodriguez, who played second in little league and once discussed moved to second to extend his career while with Texas, only got one chance at the position, a pop out behind first which he tracked down just fine for the first out in the bottom of the ninth.

With the Red Sox loss the Yankees' lead in the AL East increases to three games while the Sox remain three games out in third place in the Wild Card race. Of course, as Yogi said, it ain't over 'til it's over.

Comments (72)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-08-16 01:13:33
1.   Yu-Hsing Chen
And with David Wells going tomorrow can't say the chances of Boston winning is too good.
2006-08-16 04:08:51
2.   randym77
Last night, Jeff Karstens was removed early from the first game of the Clippers doubleheader. He left after one inning, with only 12 pitches thrown. The NY Post is reporting that he may be starting against the Sox, instead of Ponson.
2006-08-16 04:17:21
3.   Dimelo's a great treat to wake up and come to the Banter and see Cliff has a new post up already. I really liked the way the Yanks played yesterday, I like games where the Yanks are down and the opposing team's starting pitcher is pitching well and the Yanks find a way to win the game. I guess I'm a believer that these types of win's build character.

Bedard did a damn good job against the Yanks and I have to give the guy credit, he looks like he's turning into one of the tough pitchers in the AL. Next year could be a breakout year for him. If it is, the AL will have some crazy good young pitchers: Liriano, Verlander, Bonderman, Johan, Bedard, Kazmir, Garza (potentially), King Felix, and Pap-Smear (if he's made a starter). I would make a bet that by 2009 the AL becomes a pitchers league and not a hitters league. There aren't as many great hitters on the horizon as there seem to be great pitchers. Does anyone else feel that way? Especially if Hughes, Cox and Clippard turn out to be the real thing for the Yanks.

Again great win last night, I picked up Loewen in my fantasy league after he pitched against the Yanks but then he promptly got hammered in Boston. Tonight he plays against the Yanks and I hope the Yanks treat him worse than the Sawx, I don't care if I lose any amount of money in my fantasy league....the Yanks come first in my book.

2006-08-16 04:22:38
4.   randym77
In other Clippers news, Carlos Pena was released. I assume it was his decision, not the Yankees'.
2006-08-16 05:03:02
5.   Alex Belth
A Rod's error was upsetting, and though it could have saved the third run from scoring, I blame Mussina for how that inning unfolded. Have you ever seen a guy give up more hits after getting ahead 0-2, or 1-2? He pitched O.K. but not like the ace he's supposed to be. Quality start my ass, he's got to be better. Mussina admitted as much after the game:

"I'm not pleased with three runs in six innings, no," he said. "I can't do that all year and be happy with it. But that's the way it's been the last couple of starts, pretty consistently. It's pretty much three earned runs in six innings - that's what I've been doing.

"So, I felt better throwing the ball," he said, "but it was the same outcome. Sorry."

Another up-and-down night for Rodriguez, who left the bat on his shoulder with two men on in the first, then came through with an RBI single, and finally, popped-up with the go-ahead run on third and only one-out in the seventh.

Got to say I'm enjoying the easy and affectionate friendship between Melky and Cano. After Melky scored from first on Damon's triple in the eighth, he sat in the corner of the dugout as Cano and Bernie fanned him with towels and Bernie fetched him a glass of water. Funny how winning makes everything free-and-easy.

Abreu showed his strength (arm) and weakness (botching a catchable ball at the wall) on defense, but came up big offensively.

Jason Giambi says the 'stache is here to say and that it is intended as an homage to Don Mattingly's "Hit Man" days.

E. Bedard is a nice pitcher but man, is the Baltimore bullpen garbage. J. Damon is now 11-25 lifetime against L.T. Hawkins.

The Yanks simply can not afford to lose to these chumps. And to follow-up on something Cliff noted in the comments section yesterday, all you have to do is watch Miguel Tejada to recognize that the guy is not a maximum effort player. (He loafed out of the box on the double that Abreu misplayed). Losing is contageous, I guess. Too bad, because he's a talented player. I've followed him since I read about him in "Away Games" as a minor leaguer, but I have to admit his attitude over the past two years has soured me on his game.

2006-08-16 05:10:38
6.   seamus
Cliff - I'm prety sure that Villone walked only one man. I could be wrong, but Moose walked one and Villone walked one after striking out a batter.

2 I would love to see Karstens instead of Ponson on Friday. At least then we'll have half a chance.

5 It was good to see Bernie having fun. I worry about him getting down about not playing. I know he needs to not be in the field, but I hate to see him down.

2006-08-16 05:20:23
7.   Alex Belth
Yeah, Moose's only walk started the seventh--he lost the guy after being ahead 0-2. Then after recording an out, Villone walked a batter and his night was done.
2006-08-16 05:24:12
8.   rbj
I wasn't online last night -- what's up with that caterpillar over Giambi's lip? Is it one of those rare screamapillars?

A-Rod's boot doesn't bother me too much. But don't swing at the first pitch #@$! Gut just threw 4 balls out of the strikezone. Make him find it again.

2006-08-16 05:31:00
9.   Max
6 7 I made the same mistake in assuming Villone walked I mentioned in last night's game thread, the top of the 7th was so s-l-o-w and tedious that I completely forgot that Moose started the inning. Plus, I'm so used to Villone cleaning up messes that I was almost shocked that Proctor was coming in to clean up what Villone (and Moose) started.
2006-08-16 05:31:07
10.   Alex Belth
Oh, and another thing: Larry Bowa's antics at third are hilarious. The YES announcers were praising his ability as a third base coach and it's hard to disagree. When Abreu reached third late in the game, Bowa pounded him on the helmet. It was not soft. I would have just loved it if Abreu pounded him back.
2006-08-16 05:35:55
11.   Alex Belth
Yo, my girl is horrified by Giambi's mustache, which kind of makes me like it even more. It's not about being a glamour guy, it's about being a dirtbag. I can live with that.
2006-08-16 05:41:49
12.   Murray
If Giambi wants to offer an homage to Mattingly, I'd prefer that he try to hit doubles.
2006-08-16 05:43:24
13.   Chyll Will
You would think that the Unfamiliar Rookie Pitcher theory would apply here, but it only seems to affect the Yankees when they're facing one, not starting one. Good luck with that...

I had to go to bed after A-Rod's error, but that's not what made me so mad, it was watching Moose shake off Posada and then promptly give up a line single to center after being up on the count that had my tummy rumblin'. I've definitely noticed that he gives up a load of two-strike base hits and have to wonder if he's either outsmarting himself or thinks he's smarter than everyone else in those situations. That and his sour overviews afterwards and I have to say he's been losing a few mint milano points in my eyes.

2006-08-16 06:10:30
14.   Dimelo
Here are Jeff Karstens stats at Columbus.

This might be our pitcher on Friday if Sir Pontoon can't quite start because he can't resist stopping at every Krispy Kreme in NYC.

Karstens July & August are much better than his overall numbers. Hopefully that's a good sign...we'll see. I know I wouldn't dare drive through the MassPike, by Fenway, when Karstens is pitching.

2006-08-16 06:19:28
15.   monkeypants
11 Ummm, a little too 'dirtdogs' and 'cowboy up' for my tastes.
2006-08-16 06:26:23
16.   Dimelo
11 I can't help but see a baseball version of Ron Jeremy when I see Giambi now.
2006-08-16 06:31:34
17.   monkeypants
Is this the best they can do?

J Karstens:
5-5 4.33 era, 1.50 whip, 72.2 inn, 79h 42r 35er 9hr 47k 30bb .275oppave

Those are some brutal peripherals at AAA. OK, I'll stir up some trouble--I wonder if the Yankees could call up Hughs for ONE GAME ONLY, with a strict pitch count, and throw him for four innings or so.

OK, I've settled down. Just idle musing there.

2006-08-16 06:32:56
18.   Chyll Will
14 He'd get a hero's welcome uptown at Jimbo's... can't help but burst into song whenever I see him on the mound; you know that number in "Little Shop of Horrors"... wait, I messed up, he'd get a hero uptown at...
2006-08-16 06:38:42
19.   Sliced Bread
The Giambousolini is a dashing look on him. It projects high levels of garlic, Brut, testosterone, OBP, & Slugging Percentage.

A-Rod's defense is shakier than a backseat bobblehead on the bumpy Belt Parkway. That egregious "E" was his 7th error in "support" of the bad luck magnet Mussina, who, to the surprise of no one, has suffered more fielding blunders behind him than any pitcher in the league (according to YES).

While Mussina was slowing down the game, shaking off Posada, I imagine deep within Moose's complex psyche, he was suppressing an involuntary Bronx Zoo reflex to hurl a baseball at Rodriguez's face.

Watching Johnny Shortporch come through with the big late-inning hits made me feel almost, but not quite sorry for Red Suckas fans, who must be secretly wishing they had held a telethon to keep him in New England.

2006-08-16 06:53:07
20.   Dimelo
I just read that Torre wants to get Bernie in the lineup. I love Bernie to death, but it pains me to see him playing CF or RF over Damon or Abreu, respectively. Torre said he might give Damon/Abreu a day off. We all saw what a lethal weapon it is to have to Abreu in right and how it stops teams from tagging up on a short fly ball to right. Having Bernie out there, during a pennant race, makes no sense whatsoever.

I remember listening to the WFAN a few years back and someone had said that Bernie's fall from grace will be similar to Patrick Ewing's. He won't decline gradually, but it will be one loud thump. It's definitely been one loud thump with Bernie.

2006-08-16 07:03:43
21.   rsmith51
I figured that he might have started yesterday against the LHP, perhaps putting Wilson in LF, Giambi at 1B, and DHing Bernie. With the starting lineup yesterday, are there any pinch-hitting options for this team? I guess Bernie for Wilson, but that is illogical. Or Andy for Cano, again numbers say otherwise.
2006-08-16 07:12:35
22.   sabernar
20 Let Bernie play DH vs a lefty if Joe thinks he needs to get him in the game. His Rate this year in CF is a more-than-brutal 72. Ouch.
2006-08-16 07:25:51
23.   weeping for brunnhilde
12 To the opposite field.
2006-08-16 07:26:40
24.   Sliced Bread
Bernie's cleats should not touch grass.

Anybody watching the groundbreaking ceremony live on YES right now?

Sheppard introduced Sterling and Kay who is now introducing the dozens of dignataries on the three-row dias.

Yogi's in da house, Steinbrenner, Cashman, Pataki, Billy Crystal, the Mayor, former Mayors, Governors, etc.

Everybody has a bottle of Poland Spring water next to their name card, along with a hard-hat cleverly resembling a Yankees batting helmet.

Hanging above the dias and podium there's a huge movie-screen sized sketch of the new Stadium.

Lots of sunsplashed pomp and circumstance. It's a little depressing.

Can't wait to go to the good old Stadium tonight.

2006-08-16 07:27:57
25.   Sliced Bread
24check swing. make that "dignitaries."
2006-08-16 07:35:56
26.   Alvaro Espinoza
Oh, we'll see Bernie all right and soon! With another lefty going tonight, don't be surprised if you see Fasano as well.
2006-08-16 07:39:32
27.   Peter
5 I also loved how after Cano hit the go-ahead RBI, Melky paraded through the dugout with both hands raised victoriously above his head.
2006-08-16 07:42:03
28.   rbj
26 Jorge's gonna need some rest for this weekend, and I think Fasano's gonna see action on Friday too, so he'll need to knock off some rust tonight. Hopefully the bats will be out in force tonight, so the team can get by with Fasano.
2006-08-16 07:43:53
29.   Shaun P
5 7 13 I'm not sure how entirely reliable this data is, but according to Yahoo! at least, Moose has given up only 11 hits on an 0-2 pitch, with 32 Ks, and no BBs or HRs - and his opponents' batting average (BAA) is .145 in that situation.

Once Moose gets to 0-2, after that he's given up 26 hits with 65 Ks, 2 BBs, 2 HRs - and a BAA of .170.

Unfortunately Yahoo doesn't give the number of ABs vs the pitcher for each pitch count, only the number of IP for the pitcher . . . and using that, I can't make those BAA work out quite right, so that's why I'm not sure how accurate the numbers are.

2006-08-16 07:45:32
30.   Shaun P
26 I'd count on Fasano tonight with Lidle pitching. I also won't be surprised to see Sal catch Wang on Friday, as they apparently worked well together in AAA back in '04.
2006-08-16 07:47:50
31.   Alex Belth
Thanks for that Shaun P. I was basing my call on years worth of watching Mussina, but to be honest, wasn't going on any data at all. I could be completely wrong, it's just the impression I've had.
2006-08-16 07:49:37
32.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
17 Those numbers are skewed by a horrible May and a poor April.

He's been better in July and very good in August.

After the poor start at Columbus he went down to Trenton in May and spent all of June there, where he was pretty much unhittable. He's been pretty good since his return in July to AAA, and very good in August.

Tho he doesn't seem to be striking many hitters out since his return to AAA. The fewer balls in play in Fenway the better, I'd say.

I would've been tempted to call up Tyler Clippard from Trenton for the start

2006-08-16 07:58:39
33.   Alvaro Espinoza
31 No data here either but it seems that Yankee pitchers when struggling, most notably Moose and Unit, have been particularly unable to put away hitters after 2 strikes. I've noticed this phenomenon since last season.
2006-08-16 08:02:30
34.   pistolpete
5 >> "Abreu showed his strength (arm) and weakness (botching a catchable ball at the wall) on defense, but came up big offensively." >>

I LOVE the fact that we have not one but TWO outfielders now that affect the other team's running game. Melky nearly nailed Roberts on second with his throw, and Abreu would have surely got him at home as well.

>> Jason Giambi says the 'stache is here to say and that it is intended as an homage to Don Mattingly's "Hit Man" days." >>

Donnie did gay porn flicks on the side, apparently?

2006-08-16 08:03:32
35.   Javi Javi
17 on a somewhat tangential point, does anyone know of any analyses that look at pitching performance decline, comparing AAA to the majors--in other words, if a pitcher has a 4.33 ERA in AAA, what would be the equivalent ERA in the AL? just my geeky curiousity.
2006-08-16 08:04:37
36.   Peter
I'd be wary about calling up any young pitchers to make their mlb debut at Fenway this weekend.

I'm thinking they should get Al Leiter to wear #24 for the day (along with a lot of padding). I bet Manny wouldn't even notice the switch.

2006-08-16 08:06:53
37.   Chyll Will
24 Bloomberg should take all of that water and donate it to those people in Queens who were without electricity for what, two weeks? Then he should donate the hardhats to his buddy at ConEd for "defensive purposes..."
2006-08-16 08:08:09
38.   jayd
The most troubling thing about arod's continuing miscues is that during the post season you might actually begin to see a 3rd base defensive replacement. I, for one, never thought it would come to this.
2006-08-16 08:09:30
39.   pistolpete
36 It could go either way - Boston sometimes has their own troubles with the URPs as well.
2006-08-16 08:12:55
40.   vockins
29 What's the league average for 0-2, I wonder? Seems to me that Moose might be average, but I didn't do any exhaustive research.

Not that starting lineups should be made considering how somebody pitches on 0-2.

2006-08-16 08:13:45
41.   Ron Burgundy
Anybody recording this Stadium thing?
I hope they have the 3D model video up on, it gave a REAL good view of the Stadium. The RF Upper Deck still looks basically as it does now, only with a facade. It's moved back slightly as the LF Upper Deck in the current Stadium is. That's kinda good, because nowadays, it's not that hard to go Upper Deck in RF. So when Duncan sends one up there, we'll know it was a shot.
2006-08-16 08:19:52
42.   vockins
If those yahoo numbers are worth a damn, it seems like swinging at Papelbon's first pitch of the AB might be worth a shot.
2006-08-16 08:28:04
43.   Cliff Corcoran
41 Wait, the proximity of the upper deck to the field is important to you only because of how often home runs will go there? Not because of the view it affords the fans?

The more I think about it the more upset I get about this new stadium. Those great upper deck views will be history, as will the history of the current park. There's nothing quite like watching pre-game Yankeeography clips or all-time great Yankee montages on the diamondvision and then looking out at the field and knowing that what you just saw in grainy black and white happened right there.

I fully expect this new park to have the charm of a megamall and to be less condusive to following the game on the field than your average rowdy sports bar.

As a fan who has made regular trips to the big ballpark in the Bronx for nearly twenty years I feel like I've just lost the lease on my vacation home (indeed, Yankee Stadium is likely the closest I'll ever come to having a vacation home).

Like I said, the more I think about it, the more angry I become.

2006-08-16 08:35:00
44.   Schteeve
Does anyone have a picture of Giambi and his stache? This I have to see.
2006-08-16 08:35:12
45.   Ron Burgundy
43 I like the HR part. But I DEFINITELY don't like that it's farther back. They said it was gonna resemble the OLD Yankee Stadium. In THAT Stadium, the Upper Deck was right there over the lower deck. The current Upper Deck does the same thing. If they just got the Upper Deck closer, I would be happy, but they didn't. And I would've also liked the dimensions a bit bigger, because all these new ballparks turn out to be little-league parks no matter what. Down the LF line, 320 (+ 2 Ft.), but with a shorter fence, like the old Stadium; a Full 400 in Left-Center (+ 1 Ft.); 410 in CF (+2 Ft.); 390 or 385 in Right-Center; and 315 (+1 Ft.) in RF porch, but with a shorter fence, like the old Stadium. I feel this is going to be another band-box with a bad Upper Deck in which nothing can be seen.
2006-08-16 08:38:12
46.   Shaun P
44 I wish the Yanks would just renovate the current Stadium. Look at what the Sox have done with Fenway. Its more of a money-maker than ever before.

I know it would probably make renovations harder, but why isn't Yankee Stadium on the National Register of Historic Places? Wouldn't that prevent it from being torn down?

2006-08-16 08:40:51
47.   Shaun P
Oops, 46 should go back to 43.

Though I'd like to see a Giambi 'stache pic myself.

On the new Stadium, if they're going to do it, why not go all out and have something truly new, like the original Stadium was, and not just another typical HOK mallpark? That's what I don't get the most.

2006-08-16 08:40:59
48.   Ron Burgundy
46 It would probably be even more expensive to renovate it. You'd have to demolish it again, and then build it again. It's not exactly in terrific structural shape. The entire process would probably take a year or so longer than just building a new one. The MAIN problem with this new one is the mobed back Upper Deck and the fact that the outside wall is separate from the Stadium. If they just fixed those two STUPID details, I would be happy.
2006-08-16 08:46:14
49.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
43 I saw my first game at the Stadium in 1978.

As a relatively new Yankee fan who didn't ever get to see the old stadium, that is the park that I weep for. Looking at pix and video of the old park, there seems relatively little to connect it the stadium as it has existed since 1975.

To the extent that they're recreating the old place as it existed before the refurbishment, as they claim, I say get the wrecking ball ready.

Frankly tho, I wish they'd go further, and bring back the stadium'sold dimensions. How'bout these:

Left field: 301 (1928)
Short left-center: 415 (1928)
Deepest left-center: 490 (1924)
Center field: 461 (1937)
Deepest right-center: 407 (1937)
Short right-center: 367 (1937)
Right field 296 (1939)

2006-08-16 08:46:49
50.   vockins
43 Word.

It seems like we're getting Shea II. No thanks.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-08-16 08:48:02
51.   Cliff Corcoran
Giambi photo:

Not the best pick, but the blonde stache doesn't really show up very well in general.

2006-08-16 08:52:23
52.   Cliff Corcoran
49 I don't think there's much about the new park other than the facade (by which I mean the exterior wall) and the frieze (by which I mean the thing typically mislabeled the facade) which will resemble the original park.

50 I think we're actually getting Camden Yards XXVIII.

2006-08-16 08:56:17
53.   Cliff Corcoran
52 I exaggerated, it's actually only Camden Yards XVI, with the Mets and Nationals due for XVII and XVIII.
2006-08-16 08:58:26
54.   Ron Burgundy
52 True. Sad, but true. Like you said though, the Upper Deck getting moved back screws up the idea of the OLD Yankee Stadium. I also don't understand why the exterior wall is going to be separate from the Stadium.
2006-08-16 09:08:16
55.   Sandman42
Any idea why they're moving back the upper deck? Is it for the more open look?

41 Personally I love the homers (and foul balls) to the upper deck. That literally gets fans closer to the game.

What's the best guess on the new ticket prices? I'd say $20 Bleachers, $28 Tier Reserved, $65-80 for Main Box-MVP, $85 Field Box, $125 Legends. I wonder where the prices will be in the last year of the old stadium.

2006-08-16 09:09:21
56.   vockins

In other news, this is great:

2006-08-16 09:13:13
57.   Ron Burgundy
55 Yeah, I love those two. I was just commenting how it will be a bigger "Achievement" to go upper tank now. But I'll miss the days when you sit in the Upper Deck and still feel like you're behind the dugout. What was the point of moving back the Upper Deck, honestly?
2006-08-16 09:16:57
58.   Alvaro Espinoza

"The new Yankee Stadium was designed by Hellmuth, Obata & Kassabaum (HOK), which also crafted such retro stadiums as Oriole Park at Camden Yards in Baltimore, Minute Maid Park in Houston and PNC Park in Pittsburgh. "

2 outta 3 ain't bad. PNC is often touted as the best park in baseball and Camden's reputation proceeds itself. As for Enron, er, I mean Minute Maid...


"The [features] of the original stadium will be restored here: The cathedral ceilings, the frieze (facade), the auxiliary scoreboards in left field, the Yankee bullpen back in right field," said club president Randy Levine on Wednesday during the ceremony's opening statements."

2006-08-16 09:17:15
59.   eephus
56 HA! That's a classic.

By the way, how much do we need a Jewish guy on the Yankees? I don't think he's actually Jewish, but I was kind of hoping we'd get Kevin Mench before the trading deadline... a guy with that name could only thrive in New York.

2006-08-16 09:20:46
60.   RZG
43 But you're thinking of the renovated Stadium. The new one should be more reminiscent of the original one (I hope without the poles blocking the view). I'd prefer improving the present one but if they're going to start over at least they have a nice model to work from.
2006-08-16 09:21:34
61.   Ron Burgundy
56 Ha-Ha, and I thought Youkillis was Greek and a fellow East Orthodox Christian homeboy. Oh well. But, where's the FCC on that?

"Where's Mel Gibson NOW?!" Ha-ha, Ha!

2006-08-16 09:26:37
62.   mehmattski
29 I think you might find the stats you're looking for here:

Seems pretty interesting, one that jumped at me was that Moose has gone 2-0 on just 45 hitters all year, and only 6 times was a ball put in play on the next pitch. As for 0-2 counts, the .170 BAA seems correct, and is the lowest of any count. The .420 OPS after 0-2 is also by far the lowest of all counts.

I can't find any league average data but here's the Yanks starters after 0-2 counts:

Mussina 153 .170/.191/.222
Johnson 137 .182/.200/.277
Wang 94 .245/.294/.362
Wright 63 .190/.203/.254
Lidle 75 .200 .221 .267

2006-08-16 09:52:59
63.   jkay

"Worse, when Yankee Stadium was renovated in 1974-75 great expense was gone to to, yes, remove the infamous "poles", but also to preserve the extreme cantilever of the upper deck over the lower, so upper deck fans were amazingly close to the action. This was accomplished by the use of cables buried in the concrete and anchored into the ground. The only other ballpark that I know of that used the same cable arrangement was DC Stadium -- another park with VERY close upper deck seating in the infield (despite its concrete cylinder form.)

"Sit downstairs in the first few rows and look at the upper deck in the Stadium. It seems to be right on top of the lower deck and going straight up. National League teams coming into the Stadium actually marvel at how close the screaming-banshee Yankee fans are to the action.

'But the cabled cantilever design is expensive -- much too expensive to waste on the "cheap seats". So they build luxury boxes instead and move you and me to a seat in a different zip code. For all its architecural excellence, even a place like Camden Yards gives the back of its hand to the peons upstairs.

2006-08-16 10:12:34
64.   JL25and3
I'm completely with you, Cliff. I've been going to the Stadium for over 40 years now. Obviously, it's not the same Yankee Stadium it was then, but there's still continuity. The old outfield wall is still where it used to be, and I can still marvel at those ridiculous old dimensions, and imagine DiMaggio running behind the monuments to make a catch. And that space between the right field stands and the bleachers still says "bullpen" to me.

I've used almost exactly the same words to describe the Stadium as you do. Every April, when I walk through the upper deck portal for the first time, I feel like I've come home again. The new place seems like a very nice, upscale mall, and the upper deck will completely suck.

I also work right down the street from the Stadium, so the neighborhood matters to me. This isn't a good thing for the community.

What will I get out of it? Better food, I suppose. Seats that face home plate, so I won't have to twist around if I'm sitting out in section 20 or so (most likely, the best seats I'll be able to get). Seems to me they could accomplish that by renovations; and if it meant two years in Shea, well, I lived through that once and it didn't kill me.

2006-08-16 10:15:38
65.   JL25and3
14, 17 From what I heard on the radio this AM, Karstens will only start if they have to use Sir Sidney in long relief today or tomorrow. But apparently the kid has won 11 of his last 12 starts after an awful beginning.
2006-08-16 10:53:04
66.   Cliff Corcoran
64 I do look forward to the Yankee bullpen returning to right field, assuming I'm able to keep my partial season ticket plan in the far right side of section 37 in the bleachers, that is. Otherwise, BOOOOO. And 64 a huge part of my digust has to do with the effect the new park will have on the community, both geographically and financially. I'm just to overwhelmed by the complexity of those effects to attempt to recount them here.
2006-08-16 11:34:33
67.   JL25and3
66 On this post as well as the other, we agree. I'll mention one effect that I think is particularly harmful: the loss of Macombs Dam Park. It may not be the world's most beautiful park, but it's heavily used by local families - who don't have a lot of recreational facilities to spare.

The actual acreage will be replaced, but in smaller pieces. Most of the new parkland will also be well south of where it is now - a long way from the major residential area.

2006-08-16 11:47:18
68.   Coco Loco
I'm no fan of the new upper deck either. One of the best parts of my seats (loge) is that they are covered by the upper deck. No sun, rain, etc. I'd rather not have to sit in the rear of the loge at the new place just to get that benefit.

On an unrelated subject, how much extra would a retractable roof have cost? Just curious.

2006-08-16 11:54:32
69.   Coco Loco
64 Other than better food, indicates there will be more benefits: "concourses will be wide, and the field will be visible from any snack bar or concession stand"

Having been to PNC, that's a huge plus. Now, if they could only remember to add more bathrooms to the new place.

2006-08-16 11:55:23
70.   Sandman42
I just hope we season ticket season holders will get some priority and not have to buy a "license" to use our seats.
2006-08-16 12:19:56
71.   Shaun P
62 Thanks, mehmattski - I tend to use Yahoo's stats because I play Yahoo's fantasy ball, but now I know to check ESPN too.
2006-08-16 12:29:41
72.   RZG
66 Yeah, rightfield bullpen. In my mind's eye I can still see Steve Hamilton going over the fence with his long legs to make a relief appearance rather than opening the door and simply walking through it.

Comment status: comments have been closed. Baseball Toaster is now out of business.