Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
All in the Family
2006-08-04 10:10
by Alex Belth

Check out this clever, and entertaining Yankee family-tree that our pal Ben Kabak devised over at "Off the Facade." While you are surfin' around, be sure and peep what our Toastermate Mike Carminati has on Bobby Abreu. Great job, guys.

Comments (62)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-08-04 10:18:55
1.   Sliced Bread
Good stuff, indeed.

Family tree reveals Yanks still reaping the benefits of dumping Irabu in Proctor and Bubba, and by Carminati's math Abreu is a better value than I would have thought.

Bottomline: Cash is king.

2006-08-04 11:27:47
2.   singledd
"Andruw Jones claimed on waivers"
The Braves letting A. Jones go on WAIVERS?

The Red Sox are looking for him.
I don't want to see the Sox get him!

2006-08-04 11:31:26
3.   yankz
2 Are you kidding? Where did you hear that? There's no way Schuerholz could be that dumb.

Continuing the Captain for MVP discussion, do stats like VORP count things like contributions for an injury-depleted team? Without Jeter, there's no way the Matsui/Sheffield-less Yankees would be in first place.

2006-08-04 11:36:34
4.   Bama Yankee
3 It's true
2006-08-04 11:45:59
5.   singledd
234 Some stuff about Andrew and waivers in the earlier thread.... "Don't sweat it"
2006-08-04 11:46:23
6.   singledd
oops... I meant 2 and 3 and 4
2006-08-04 11:46:27
7.   jonnystrongleg
andruw has been claimed by multiple teams. atlanta can either pull him back off waivers or work out a deal to trade him to the team "awarded" the claim. i think the claim is "awarded" to lowest record in the player's league, and then lowest record in the other league out of the teams filing the claim. can anybody be more helpful?
2006-08-04 11:49:40
8.   pistolpete
Doesn't mean he's going anywhere - Manny was on waivers during the 2004 season, lest we forget.
2006-08-04 11:50:54
9.   yankz
Oh, for some reason, I interpreted 2 as the Red Sox already getting him. Whoops.
2006-08-04 11:51:06
10.   Sandman42
8 Right, but he wasn't claimed, presumably because no one wanted to take on his salary.
2006-08-04 11:52:25
11.   jonnystrongleg
8 Definitely doesn't mean he is going anywhere, but Manny was not claimed, Andruw has been claimed, so Andruw is one step closer out the door than Manny ever got.
2006-08-04 12:08:31
12.   pistolpete
My point was that it's more common that we realize - IMO Jones won't go to the Sox.

Besides, is there really anyone else on the team the Yankees should be worried about? Just get #34 out, and you're gold.

2006-08-04 12:21:15
13.   Eirias
The list of potential suitors for Cubs third baseman Aramis Ramirez is surprisingly long. The Dodgers, Astros, Red Sox and Orioles all fit the criteria. Even the Yankees might be players, figuring they could sign Ramirez, trade Alex Rodriguez and save about $13 million a year in the process.
-- Chicago Sun-Times


2006-08-04 12:22:03
14.   tommyl
He's been claimed. That means the Braves can either:

(1) Pull him back and keep him

(2) Negotiate a trade with the team claiming him

(3) Let him go to the team claiming him

Also, the fact that "multiple" teams have claimed him means that it is highly unlikely that the Red Sox were awarded for the claim. If I recall correctly, the order is decided first by league (in this case NL over AL) and then by record (worst to best) and then tiebreakers from the previous season. If that is indeed the case, the only teams the Red Sox pick over are Detroit, the Yankees and maybe the White Sox (based on tiebreakers). I'd guess someone like Houston or whatnot made a claim.

2006-08-04 12:32:20
15.   underdog
13 Was that written a week ago or what? The Dodgers certainly are no longer interested in Aramis because they traded for Betemit (and Julio Lugo) and have Andy LaRoche waiting in the wings. Wouldn't take much reported in the Sun Times as likely...
2006-08-04 12:35:23
16.   tommyl
15 Maybe Steve Phillips is writing in Chicago since I haven't seen him on BBTN this week ;)
2006-08-04 12:36:34
17.   Simone
I bet the Red Sox claimed Andruw Jones. He would be a nice pick up for them.
2006-08-04 12:41:21
18.   tommyl
17 Simone, I'm sure they did, but they are rather low on the waiver claim totem pole. If any teams besides the Yankees, White Sox and Tigers placed a claim the Sox won't be awarded it, since the entire NL gets priority first and then all the lesser AL teams do.

So its possible that all of the "multiple" teams are these teams, but I think unlikely (for one thing there are a few NL teams I could think of who would place a claim). Also, if the Sox want to work out a deal any players they are offering to trade must also clear waivers first.

2006-08-04 12:41:44
19.   JohnnyC
Again, multiple claims preclude the Red Sox from getting him. tommy's probably right about a team like Houston which desperately needs a CF who can hit more than Taveras.
2006-08-04 12:44:35
20.   tommyl
19 Well not if the other claims were from the Tigers and Yankees. We can assume the Yankees didn't since there would be no point (claiming him wouldn't block a trade to the Sox, since they are lower on the claim order list anyways and they can't risk the salary dump for the rest of his contract) and I'd be surprised if the only other teams that made a claim were the ChiSox and/or Tigers. Do the Sox have priority over anyone else? I don't think so...
2006-08-04 12:45:23
21.   JohnnyC
tommy, would the players having to clear waivers include those on the 40 man roster or only those on the 25 man roster? If it's the 40, then the Braves aren't going to be able to get any significant package of prospects in return. And, if so, why even bother? Sure, he's a 10 and 5 guy soon but, unless you're shipping him to Milwaukee or KC, he's not going to squawk.
2006-08-04 12:48:48
22.   tommyl
21 I'm not sure about the roster questions. Let me see if I can dig it up, or maybe someone else knows?

Remember that you don't have to notify the press (or even the player) when you place someone on waivers. So its possible that other players have cleared already that we don't know about.

2006-08-04 12:49:05
23.   SF Yanks
"Virtually every player in the major leagues will be placed on waivers this month." - Buster Olney.

My question is, Why? Why do players get put on waivers? I understand the process that follows, but putting somelike Andruw Jones on in the first place doesn't make sense to me. Any explanations?

2006-08-04 12:50:00
24.   tommyl
21 Its the 40 man. Any player on the 40 man roster must first go through waivers.
2006-08-04 12:51:24
25.   tommyl
23 It frees you up to trade them later. Lets say someone got awarded the claim on Jones. They want to trade with the Braves. Any player they want to trade for him has to have either cleared waivers first or been claimed by the Braves.

So there's no harm in putting everyone on waivers. Most of the time they get pulled back.

2006-08-04 12:51:42
26.   pistolpete
18 Boston has a better record than the White Sox
2006-08-04 12:52:12
27.   Bama Yankee
14 & 19 Probably right about Houston, didn't Boston try to trade for Andruw before the deadline with the intent to flip him to the Astros for Oswalt? At least that is the rumor I heard. Of course Schuerholz was asking for Jon Lester, Craig Hansen, Coco Crisp, the frozen head of Ted Williams and one of Theo Epstein's future children to be named later...
2006-08-04 12:54:33
28.   tommyl
26 You're right. Forgot to check today's standings! Thanks. So its Detroit and the Yankees who are behind them.
2006-08-04 12:55:06
29.   tommyl
27 The question is, did any other team in the NL try and claim him who picks higher than the Astros?
2006-08-04 12:56:59
30.   Bama Yankee
23 Sometimes teams place a large amount of players on waivers (up to 7 per day) to disguise someone that they would like to get through. I guess the volume of players is thought to make it difficult for someone to spot a certain player? Maybe back in the old days, but I doubt that it works much anymore. Not with "Eagle Eye Epstein" on the job (wearing his gorilla suit no doubt).
2006-08-04 12:58:13
31.   tommyl
30 Or say just using your browser's "find" function.
2006-08-04 13:03:49
32.   mehmattski
Perhaps they could fix that by "accidentally" spelling a player's name wrong. Epstien sits down looking to trade for Andruw Jones, but John Schuerholtz has entered him as "Andrew," and Epstien misses it. Cashman, however, is keen, and the Yankees trade three little leaguers for Jones The rest of the league bemoans how the Yankees, and their ability to read, are bad for baseball.
2006-08-04 13:05:11
33.   Andrew Fletcher
Let's just say, for the sake of argument, that the Sox are awarded the claim for A. Jones and therefore have the right to work out a trade for him. IIRC, the rumor was that the Sox offered Crisp, Hansen, and a prospect, and that the Braves countered by asking for Lester to be the prospect. That trade, with or without Lester, would be off the table now, as Crisp, Hansen and Lester would all have to pass through waivers, too. No chance of that at all. Any team would claim Hansen and Lester in a heartbeat -- no contract issues to worry about. The Yankees would claim without hesitation and be overjoyed if the Sox let either one go (The Sox wouldn't of course).

So the question is, who would the Sox package for Jones? It would have to be prospects not on the 40 man (do they have many?) or veteran players who could clear waivers (Lowell? Loretta? Wakefield? Nixon?). I just can't see them putting a package together to get Andruw.

2006-08-04 13:09:01
34.   pistolpete
28 What about the Twins? Besides the obvious money issue, Hunter's a FA next season, correct?
2006-08-04 13:11:47
35.   tommyl
34 Its possible, but I seriously doubt that the entire NL passed. Don't you?
2006-08-04 13:13:16
36.   tommyl
I have a question: Lets say a player is claimed and the team just lets him go. Does the team getting him have to take on the remainder of his salary for the year, or all of it back to opening day (i.e. pay back the team losing him)?
2006-08-04 13:15:33
37.   JohnnyC
Considering it would be hard to clear waivers on any prospects on a 40 man roster worth a damn (no contract problems whatsoever), what's Schuerholz aiming to get?
2006-08-04 13:16:37
38.   SF Yanks
I'm officially confused on the whole waiver thing. Picking poeple up from waivers makes sense. Putting them on doesn't, unless you're sending them down to the minors. I see no other reason to put someone on waivers. I thank everyone for trying to explain this to me but my head doesn't grasp the concept. So I won't ask anyone else to chime in. I'll give it a rest for now. On to something new.

What scares me is seeing the pitching matchup for tonight. Whenever you see a huge mismatch like Randy(11-9) and Chen(0-6) it seems to go the way of the underdog.

2006-08-04 13:17:12
39.   JohnnyC
36 Remainder of the term of the contract (which is why no one picked up Manny).
2006-08-04 13:17:32
40.   Andre
Fascinating article about the Javy Lopez deal:

Looks like the DRays may be trying to block the players the Red Sox send back, which might cause the Orioles to eat less of Javy's salary. Guess the DRays don't like the Sox much.

2006-08-04 13:18:15
41.   tommyl
39 Thanks.
2006-08-04 13:20:31
42.   JohnnyC
"Guess the DRays don't like the Sox much." Yeah, well, this cinches it...none of them are going to get a job with ESPN anytime soon.
2006-08-04 13:26:06
43.   pistolpete
38 Historically we've crapped all over Chen every time we've seen him. However, the O's offense seems to beat up on us too from time to time.

Seemed to be the case more last year, however - that could have been the Maz factor, though.

2006-08-04 13:27:27
44.   Sandman42
40 Why is the article titled "Red Sox Land Lopez"? It doesn't look like a sure thing. Who can clear on the Sox' 40-man that Baltimore would want?
2006-08-04 13:32:47
45.   Bama Yankee
33 The Sox plan to thaw out Ted Williams, wrap him in a few of Curt Schilling's bloody socks and ship him off to Atlanta in Theo's gorilla suit along with a box of Nomar posters, a bobble-head "Chia-Damon" and the rights to "Oil Can" Boyd. I can hear Theo telling Schuerholz, "With the price of crude going through the roof, Boyd is a great addition to this deal".
2006-08-04 13:38:16
46.   Andre
I don't know if the Sox need to trade anyone - they could probably just do a complete salary dump and assume all $2.7m of Javy's salary.
2006-08-04 13:40:53
47.   standuptriple
Stick it to the Sox! I knew the DRays were good for something.
2006-08-04 13:45:30
48.   JohnnyC
46 Gee, I wonder if ESPN would accuse Boston of trying to buy a championship if they assumed all of Lopez's contract. Naaaa.
2006-08-04 13:51:06
49.   sparky
Just read your SI piece on young pitchers...good stuff. One typo though. You have Fidrych's record as 19-4; he had 9 losses.
2006-08-04 13:52:09
50.   randym77
Love the family tree!

On another subject...RSN is displeased with Theo:

>> If, say Abreu comes to Fenway Park two weekends hence and helps speed up that process it might be wise for Theo not to be sitting in the very public box above home plate he demanded of ownership as part of his ransom to return to the team because it will be tough to see the game with hot dogs and pop bottles bouncing off the glass. <<

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-08-04 13:56:10
51.   RIYank
The deal's done; the O's have agreed to take a
'Player to be Named Later'. They wanted Dunn or Machado, but the D-Rays would have blocked those guys from passing waivers. So for now, the Sawx get J. Lo. and some cash, and the Orioles get promises and relieved of the burden.
2006-08-04 13:56:11
52.   JohnnyC
Sean McAdam is reporting that the DRays are claiming Adam Stern, the player the Sox wish to send to the O's, in retaliation for the Sox tampering with Julio Lugo prior to the July 31st trade dealine (they supposedly contacted Lugo's agent to discuss a contract extension and Lugo playing 2nd base). The upshot is that the Orioles can wait until the off-season to get Stern if they have to. Selig has already approved the money part of the deal...I guess he'd have to approve a larger amount if it's a "player to be named later" thing. Again, what's $2.7 million when you're desperate?
2006-08-04 13:57:48
53.   Stormer Sports
So long as the Sox don't aquire any pitching, I'm happy.
2006-08-04 13:59:01
54.   standuptriple
53 What do you mean? They got Boomer Wells. Oh, I guess you mean good pitching. Gotcha.
2006-08-04 13:59:52
55.   JohnnyC
They see Javy as a set-up guy on days when they have the lead and put Mirabelli in as a defensive replacement. Hear he has a wicked forkball similar to his throws to second base on steal attempts.
2006-08-04 14:01:50
56.   Stormer Sports
And like my momma always said: "If you can't grow a beard, then don't." Note to Beckett and his pubescent growth.
2006-08-04 14:02:59
57.   JohnnyC
Man, other teams are going to be running wild on the Sox (not that Tek was that good throwing guys out either). At least Tek wouldn't call all fastballs with speedy runners on just to protect himself. Can't see Lopez calling any breaking pitches or changeups with runners on. That's why Maddux hated pitching to him.
2006-08-04 14:03:47
58.   Stormer Sports

Well, that, and the fact that the guy is just a straight up selfish ass.

2006-08-04 14:04:59
59.   JohnnyC
58 There's that too. LOL.
2006-08-04 14:05:58
60.   randym77
Jeez Louise. The cover story for Yahoo!Sports now:

"Bronx bombed: Can A-Rod win back Yankee fans? Fans in the Bronx are angry with Alex Rodriguez."

I cannot believe this is still "news."

2006-08-04 14:19:48
61.   Bama Yankee
55 "Forkball to second base", good one JohnnyC. As Javi Javi pointed out earlier, Boston also has a pitcher named Javier Lopez so they might have Javy Lopez pitching to Javy Lopez.
2006-08-04 14:23:30
62.   Bama Yankee
60 This just in from Yahoo!Sports:
Roger Bannister breaks 4 minute mile

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