Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
Abreu Abreme
2006-07-31 00:48
by Cliff Corcoran

By now you've probably heard the news. After months of rumors, the Yankees finally traded for Bobby Abreu yesterday afternoon. Not only that, but they get to have their cake and eat it to as the deal also brought them back-of-the-rotation starter Cory Lidle, satisfying the team's need for both another big bat and a viable fifth starter. And all it cost them was a quartet of expendable minor leaguers. More on the identities of those four at the end of this post, but first let's take a look at the two players the Yankees have acquired.

Bob Kelly Abreu is exactly a month and a half older than Derek Jeter and arrives in New York with a career hitting line of .301/.412/.507. Here's a complete list of active players who have hit at least .300/.400/.500 on their careers (minimum 1200 plate appearances, or three full seasons) along with their current ages:

Barry Bonds (42)*
Frank Thomas (38)
Chipper Jones (34)
Manny Ramirez (34)
Todd Helton (32)**
Bobby Abreu (32)
Lance Berkman (30)
Albert Pujols (26)

*Bonds' career average just dipped to .299, but he deserves inclusion anyway
**Helton is more than six months older than Abreu

The Yankees have just acquired the third-youngest established .300/.400/.500 hitter in baseball.

That said, the key to appreciating Bobby Abreu's talent is understanding that, despite his company above, he is not a home run hitter. To wit, here are the career home run totals for the four youngest players on the above list (career plate appearances per home run in parentheses)

Helton – 282 (20.6 PA/HR)
Abreu – 198 (30.9)
Berkman – 208 (20.3)
Pujols – 234 (16.3)

Rather, Abreu's greatest strength is his ability to get on base. Only five players with a minimum of 1200 plate appearances reached base more often than Abreu over the last three seasons (2003-2005). Of those five (Bonds, Helton, Pujols, Berkman and J.D. Drew), only Albert Pujols currently has a higher on-base percentage than Abreu, who ranks fifth in the majors with a .427 mark. Notice that Jason Giambi's name didn't pop up anywhere in there? Bobby Abreu is a bigger on base threat than the man whose bones repel baseballs out of the strike zone.

Then there's what Abreu does once he's on base. Only eight men have stolen more bases over the last three years than Abreu, and Alfonso Soriano, Jimmy Rollins, Jose Reyes, Johnny Damon and Tony Womack are not among them. Here are those eight and Abreu along with their stolen base totals and success rates:

Scott Podsednik – 172 (79%)
Juan Pierre – 167 (73%)
Carl Crawford – 160 (83%)
Chone Figgins – 109 (75%)
Ichiro Suzuki – 103 (79%)
Dave Roberts – 101 (78%)
Carlos Beltran – 100 (88%)
Rafael Furcal – 100 (85%)
Bobby Abreu – 93 (80%)

Get the picture? Despite his bulky appearance (Abreu reminds me of a left-handed version of Sammy Sosa or Jose Canseco when he's at the plate) and his 2005 Home Run Derby crown, Bobby Abreu is actually more of a lead-off type. He gets on base at a staggering rate and is a prolific and successful base stealer once there (he's 20 for 24 on the bases thus far this year, good for an 83 percent success rate). That he also happens to hit about 20 home runs every year is a compliment to those core abilities.

It is for that reason that I'm undisturbed by Abreu's recent power failure. In 174 games since last July 4, Abreu has hit just 14 home runs and slugged just .416. Over that same stretch, however, he's reached base at a .402 clip and stolen 30 bases at a 77 percent success rate. He's still doing the things that make him valuable to his team.

Then again, he's hit just .255/.385/.384 outside of the hitter-friendly Citizen's Bank Park over that stretch and is coming off a dreadful July in which he's hit just .250/.313/.367 in all parks. Ask the Phillies fans who never did appreciate the fact that he was one of the best hitters in all of baseball during his eight-plus seasons in Philadelphia and they will tell you that his victorious Home Run Derby performance last July ruined his swing. His .300/.444/.550 April and last year's .320/.419/.510 August prove that theory false, though one does have to hope that a change of scenery will be able to revive Abreu's bat. To that end, though the left-handed Abreu hits equally to all fields and the bulk of his deep fly outs actually go the opposite way, it won't hurt that the right field foul pole in his new home park is 16 feet closer to home plate than the one in his old home park, or that the left field foul pole is 11 feet closer.

As for how Abreu will work his way into the Yankee line-up, after taking Larry Bowa's number 53 he should be inserted into one of the top three spots. Given Derek Jeter's tremendous season, it's tempting to put Abreu second and push Jeter down to the three-spot, but one could also stagger the line-up's lefties by going with something like this:

L – Damon
R – Jeter
L – Abreu
R – Rodriguez
L – Giambi
S – Posada

That order also gives the Yankees an average of 20 steals from each of their top three hitters, with Rodriguez with nine swipes of his own from the clean-up spot (never mind that Giambi and Posada are a perfect 3 for 3 on the bases this season).

Abreu will replace the part-time platoon of Bernie Williams and Aaron Guiel in right field. Abreu does not have the greatest defensive reputation, and his Rate stats support the fact that he's below average, but he's a sure improvement on poor old Bernie and brings a strong throwing arm to go with his foot speed. With Abreu and Cabrera, the Yankees suddenly have a pair of strong throwing corner outfielders.

Exactly what the Yankees have in store for Bernie, Guiel, and now-sixth outfielder Bubba Crosby remains to be seen. Likely either Guiel or Crosby will be demoted to make room for Abreu on the roster, while we might see more of Jason Giambi in the field and Bernie at DH in the near future, knowing Joe Torre's inability to keep Bernie on the bench.

I wouldn't mind seeing that against lefties, actually, as Andy Phillips hasn't hit southpaws one bit this season (.195/.235/.247) and Bernie has hit them a ton (.327/.397/.505). In fact, that gap is so large that I wouldn't even mind seeing this set-up when Chien-Ming Wang is on the mound. Against righties, meanwhile, Torre might want to give some thought to giving Aaron Guiel (.220/.343/.508 vs. righties) some starts in right while bouncing Abreu to DH, as Guiel is an above average fielder and has had greater success against righties than Phillips (.268/.298/.493), who again would be forced to sit while Giambi played the field.

Speaking of which, for all of those who believe that Giambi's strong performance as the team's primary DH this year has exposed his unerringly consistent DH/1B splits as a small-sample or injury-related fluke, I present his 2006 splits:

As 1B: .270/.443/.572
As DH: .227/.361/.577

Indeed, the best Yankee line-up is one with Giambi in the field and a strict Williams/Guiel platoon at DH (with Guiel occasionally swapping positions with Abreu against righties). That set-up will limit Andy Phillips' starts to games Chien-Ming Wang pitches against his fellow righties, when the difference between Phillips and Guiel at the plate and the difference between Phillips and Giambi in the field make the defense-first arrangement more appropriate than it is against lefties.

As for Cory Lidle, I'm adopting a wait and see approach here. Normally, Lidle wouldn't be a pitcher I'd want on my staff. But as the man who will replace Sidney Ponson in the rotation, I'm happy to have him. That said, here's a quick comparison of Lidle, Ponson and Shawn Chacon using their career numbers entering this year (ages in parentheses):

Cory Lidle34995.532.332.371.32
Sidney Ponson29945.423.011.801.44
Shawn Chacon281006.064.601.321.48

That's a modest improvement to be sure. Indeed, Lidle could easily bomb just as badly as those other two, but the Yankees simply could not go forward with their existing options for the final spot in the rotation and, at the very least, Lidle, unlike Chacon or Ponson, did not pitch his way out of his team's rotation. In fact, his last two starts have been stellar. Against the hot-hitting Braves and Diamondbacks in hitter-friendly Citizen's Bank Park, Lidle posted the following line over two starts: 16 IP, 10 H, 5 R, 4 HR, 1 BB, 13 K. It can't hurt to give this guy a try, especially given the fact that he's piggy-backed on the Abreu deal, which would have been a more than fair deal for the Yankees even without Lidle. That said, Brian Cashman has been quoted as saying that he would not have made the trade had he not gotten a starting pitcher as well.

Lidle's last start for the Phillies came this past Thursday, so he'll be on regular rest on Tuesday if needed, and available to pitch in any game after that. Even before Randy Johnson's poor performance on Saturday, Joe Torre had decided to give the Big Unit an extra day of rest this upcoming week by starting Ponson against the Blue Jays on Thursday despite the fact that the Yankees won't need a fifth starter again until Saturday in Baltimore. Thus I believe we can expect Lidle to slip right into Ponson's Thursday start, with Sir Sidney getting a one-way ticket out of town. Indeed, as soon as the Yankees announced that they were going to skip the fifth spot in the rotation until after the trading deadline, I was pretty sure that Ponson would not be taking another turn for the Yanks.

Speaking of guys leaving town, here's the skinny on the four minor leaguers going the other way:

Matt Smith you know. He's the guy with the 0.00 career major league ERA in 12 innings. I like the look of the left-handed Smith, who also posted a 2.08 ERA in Columbus this year with solid peripherals (22 Ks, 8 BB, 27 H, 3 HR in 26 IP), but he is 27 years old and the Yankees consistently (and, it's beginning to appear, foolishly) promoted righty T.J. Beam over him. I had a feeling Smith was going to be involved in any trade the Yankees might have pulled off and, since they weren't going to use him out of the big-league pen (most of those 12 scoreless innings came in junk time), they've done well to use him this way.

C.J. Henry was the Yankees' top pick in the 2005 amateur draft. A high school shortstop, Henry was a tools pick in a draft that focused heavily on the more reliable track records of college pitchers. After an unimpressive professional debut with the Rookie League Gulf Coast Yankees last summer, notable only for his 17 steals in 48 games, the 20-year-old Henry struggled mightily with the low-A Charleston RiverDogs this year, hitting just .237/.326/.350 with 86 strikeouts in 76 games. With Henry blocked at short by the Yankee Captain, the Yanks decided to cut bait before the shine came off his first-round status. If only they had done the same with 2000 first-round pick David Parrish, who was surreptitiously released by the Clippers earlier this year after compiling a career minor league line almost identical to Henry's Charleston numbers (he's since been picked up by the Pirates' double-A club in Altoona where, at age 27, he's hitting for the first time since college).

The other two players going to Philadelphia were signed by the Yankees as international free agents out of the Dominican Republic in 2004. Carlos Monasterios is a 20-year-old right-hander who pitched well for the Yankees' Dominican League team in 2005 and for the GCL Yanks this year, but did so primarily in relief. Jesus Sanchez is an 18-year-old catcher who didn't hit a lick for the Dominican Yankees in 2005 and was hitting just .264/.343/.319 with the Gulf Coast Yankees this year. If he ever had any real value to the organization, which I doubt, he was made expendable by the recent signing of 16-year-old catching uberprospect Jesus Montero.

The Yankees assume the remainder of Abreu's salary for this season, which comes to $4.4 million, and will owe him $15 million for next season. Abreu has a $16 million option for 2008 with a $2 million buyout, but the Yankees were not required to pick it up as a part of the deal as the Phillies instead paid him $1.5 million to waive his no-trade clause. Lidle, meanwhile, is on the final year of a two-year deal. The Yankees will owe him $1.117 million for the remainder of the season, less than they're paying Octavio Dotel or Tanyon Sturtze, never mind that Pavano guy.

By the way, since we're on the subject of recent deals between the Phillies and Yankees, I just realized that I never weighed in on the Sal Fasano acquisition. Basically Fasano and Kelly Stinnett are the same player except that Fasano has a smidge more pop in his bat and is a year and a half younger. He also has an inferior track record--though once a catcher hits 35, as Fasano will in a couple of weeks, just one week before Posada does, what they've done lately is far more significant than what they did in their 20s. What worries me most about the move, however, is the fact that the reason Fasano was available in the first place is that he was Pipped by Chris Coste while on the DL with inflamation in his left knee. Knee trouble in a 35-year-old catcher with a weight problem is baaaad news. I'm pretty sure it's not worth that risk for whatever negligible improvement Fasano offers. As for the player sent to the Phillies for big Sal, Hector Made is a 21-year-old A-ball middle infielder with no discernable hitting ability.

What They are Sayin'

Another fine job by Cliff. Here are what the morning papers have on the Abreu deal:

Philadelphia Daily News, Newsday (on Sheff), The New York Times, The Boston Globe, Joel Sherman, Larry Brooks, Vic Ziegel, and Bob Klapisch.


Comments (240)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-07-31 01:09:52
1.   Yu-Hsing Chen
What Pavano guy? who is this Pavano guy you speak of!!!

Seriously, this is robbery... but the Phillies options were quite limited indeed.

2006-07-31 02:29:41
2.   Yu-Hsing Chen
Also Cliff... Sheffield's career line is
.298/.398/.525, which is pretty much right there too.
2006-07-31 03:46:02
3.   randym77
Joe said yesterday that Bernie will return to the role they originally envisioned for him, as a pinch-hitter and occasional backup OFer. We'll see if that actually happens...

I don't see Joe platooning Guiel with Abreu. He wouldn't even platoon him with Bernie. Besides, if you're paying a guy $15 million a year, he probably plays every day.

If I had to bet, I'd guess it's going to be Guiel headed for Columbus today, since he has minor league options left, and Crosby doesn't.

Don't like the idea of Giambi playing 1B. He was never great, and he's fallen off a cliff the past couple of years. Not only that, he seems to come up injured far too often whenever he plays defense. At 35, it's not going to get any better.

2006-07-31 04:03:54
4.   tommyl
1 I think he's the guy who brings George his Calzones or something. Not sure though.

2 Worry about Sheff when he is healthy. He might not make it back to anything useful this year.

3 I'll believe it (the Bernie role) when I actually see it. My nightmare has Melky sitting if he goes into a slump again so that EGOB (Everyday GOB) can get ABs and bring his veteran presence to the field. Never mind Melky just had a near .900 OPS for July.

2006-07-31 04:11:52
5.   randym77
4 Re: Sheff. Very true, especially since so many see the Abreu signing as a kiss off to Sheff. Newsday has an article today claiming that someone close to Sheff said, "Why should Gary jeopardize his future trying to get back if the organization isn't committed to him?"
2006-07-31 05:42:19
6.   Shaun P
Wow. What a steal. I first heard about the trade from my dad late last night, and other than Smith, he didn't know any of the minor leaguers who went to the Phillies. I was worried about who the Yanks gave up, but now that I know who it was, never mind.

I'm sure this has been said elsewhere, but Cashman is awesome.

2006-07-31 05:54:50
7.   ChrisS
The only thing about this deal that concerns me, is what happens to Melky next year?

Obviously, he's a viable MLB hitter and an outfielder with a strong accurate arm. And at 22, my money is on him to improve.

So if the Yank have Matsui/Damon/Abreu in the outfield for '07 at least, and mostlikely '08, Cabrera is not going to improve on the bench or as a part time role-player/insurance policy. He's a starter now and if they Yanks don't use him as one, it's best that they try to move him for some pitching help in the off-season.

2006-07-31 05:57:15
8.   Sliced Bread
Unless MLB suddenly imposes a salary cap, or George Steinbrenner decides there are better ways to invest $13 million dollars than banking on one of the most prolific sluggers in the game, Gary Sheffield is going to be a New York Yankee in 2007.

That's my prediction, but, of course, it is also contingent upon Sheffield coming back healthy, swinging and hitting something very much like the hitter Steinbrenner fell in love with all those RBI ago.

I wouldn't bet against Sheffield, would you? Seriously? A hitter with that much talent, that much to prove, and a chip the size of Bobby Abreu on his shoulder? Don't you know by now? You can't beat Sheff with heat.

Thinking the opposite of many, if not most observers, I believe the Abreu signing is more likely going to motivate Sheffield.

I imagine Sheff is more determined than ever this morning to get back in the batter's box and remind all who would dare to doubt him how dangerous he can be with a bat in his hands.

Yanks fans should be praying that Sheffield's healing wrist allows him to return to form, and that Steinbrenner's healthy wallet allows him to remain a Yankee.

If those prayers are answered, where Sheff plays, and how often will be Torre's problem, if you can possibly consider that a problem.

2006-07-31 06:13:49
9.   monkeypants
7 Bernie was a part-time player in '91 and '92 (22 and 23 y.o.), and it worked out OK for him. I suspect an aging outfield of Matsui/Damon/Abreu will provide plenty of chances for Melky to play.
2006-07-31 06:21:10
10.   tommyl
7, 9 If Melky can now play CF then I think you can basically rotate him through the OF spots next year, giving the one sitting a break as DH. If not, he can rotate with Matsui and Abreu. If we signed Sheff too, that complicates things, but I don't think we are going to.

So Melky could play basically everyday, if Joe used him correctly. The chances of that though....

2006-07-31 06:21:23
11.   GoingDeep
Props to Ca$hman for the deal. He was patient and knew that he had Gillick over a barrel because Gillick desparetly wanted to move Burell or Abreu. I think the best part is that the Yankees dont have to pick up the $16M option and the buyout is only $2M.

Regarding Sheff, it still in his interests to get back and prove people that he hasnt lost much. He cant just sit-out the rest of the year because he has to prove he still has it. He was already slowing declining offensively and at 38 and with his stroke the wrist is crucial. With his lacklustre D, he is not worth $13M next year despite his claims that he is in the best 5 players in baseball. I also believe he wants to stay a Yankee. Even though he is not the prototypical yankee he likes the clubhouse and would like to stay. While his option will not be picked up, he could command 7-8M as a DH/Occasional RF if he can prove his wrist is OK. But with Giambi as the primary DH and Bobby in RF, Sheff will not be in pinstripes next year especially with the Rise of the Melkman. If Giambi was able to play 110-120 Games at 1B next year it would be possible to use Sheff as a DH. But thats asking a lot of Giambi and despite some suggestion I dont think Shef At 1B is viable.

We also shouldnt overlook Lidle in this. He may become as valuable as Abreu in the short-term. If he can eat 6+IP every 5th night with close to league Avg ERA that would not only save the Bullpen (notably Proctor's right arm), but also make that 5th starter position an asset rather than a liability for the Yankees.

2006-07-31 06:22:16
12.   tommyl
I think its fair to say that either this year or next is the end for Bubba as a Yankee though. He's out of options and when Matsui comes back you are clearly going to keep Melky around.
2006-07-31 06:23:42
13.   willdthrill
This trade in no way assures the Yankees a free pass into the post season. However, I think Cashman made a real nice move that should make him bulletproof for at least another season. Getting an outfielder and a fifth starter without giving up any of your top ten prospects AND no one off your 25 man roster speaks either to Cashman's negotiating skills or the Phillies' desperation in getting rid of Abreu's contract.
2006-07-31 06:27:12
14.   Felix Heredia
Check out this insight from Kevin Kernan in Sunday's Post:

"[The Yankees] should be calling the A's about Barry Zito. . . . Dontrelle Willis appears to be off limits. . . . But it couldn't hurt to call. While Brian Cashman is at it, check in with Houston one last time for a shot in the dark at Roger Clemens. . . . What this shows is that the Yankees have to start producing more of their own starters. They have to develop more Chien-Ming Wangs instead of buying more Randy Johnsons - or acquiring more Bobby Abreus."

He actually advocates bringing in superstars and not bringing in superstars in the same column. I'd love to be a sports writer - get paid to hang out at Yankee Stadium and write columns that don't even have to make sense.

2006-07-31 06:41:14
15.   seamus
14 I think what he is saying makes sense. Basically, when he is talking about calling about Clemens or Zito he is clearly talking about our current situation. The latter statement is clearly stating that we need to avoid this need by developing more in-house talent in terms of starting pitching.
2006-07-31 07:05:18
16.   Alvaro Espinoza
14 Yeah, I read that mess. I don't know if it's the Post's sports editor's doing in assigning columns or that Kernan is simply a dope but I consistently ask myself if the guy is a knucklehead after I read his columns.

As for next year, I hear this guy Zito will be available and I know a team that could use some pitching (who couldn't?). Bye bye, Mr. Sheffield, you've been terrific but it's time to part ways. The priorities have changed.

2006-07-31 07:07:29
17.   Sliced Bread
The mainstream media, from the NY paper hounds to the ESPN haters, are already churning up agita for Sheffield. If they're not already digging his Bronx grave with their hot breath, or scribbling his Yankees obituary on the clubhouse wall, they're suggesting he learn to play first base or else.

Don't fuel Sheff's heartburn Yankee fans! Sheffield's bat is a luxury the Yankees can afford.

The season is long, and the injuries can pile up fast. There are enough innings and DH at-bats to go around among Matsui, Damon, Abreu, Sheffield, and Melky.

As Cliff sagely notes above, the Yanks will maximize Giambi's productivity by increasing his innings at first base, which means Sheff slides into the primary DH role. Is $13 million too much for that role? Too much for batting order insurance? Of course, but it's also too much to pay Abreu, Damon, and Matsui. It's also too much to pay $8 for a hot Premio sausage, $8.50 for Becks beer, or how many millions for an ice cold Pavano?

Sheff's bat is a bigtime Bronx-proven luxury item that any team in the league would be lucky to employ, but few can afford.

Let's help the Yanks keep Sheffield, and let's help Sheffield stay motivated by supporting his comeback, and refusing to write his obituary.

2006-07-31 07:22:34
18.   Sliced Bread
16 There isn't a GM in the league that won't want a sparkling, if not slightly used Zito under their Christmas tree.

And Zito's new agent has some experience making those holiday wishes come true, for a fee, of course.

Trying to obtain Zito should have nothing to do with retaining a healthy Sheffield.

2006-07-31 07:26:40
19.   Alex Belth
From Buster Olney at ESPN Insider:

"Couple of quick things on the Yankees' trade for Bobby Abreu.

1. The Abreu deal is another aspect of the new approach the Yankees have been taking the last 15 months -- and if they follow in the same vein, don't be surprised if they exercise the $13 million option on Gary Sheffield for 2007.

The Yankees made a mistake in letting Jon Lieber get away after the 2004 season. They could've retained him had they exercised a one-year, $8 million option, but they thought that Lieber wasn't worth that kind of annual salary. And they were right, partly; Lieber didn't get an $8 million salary. He got a $6 million salary, for each of the three years, from the Phillies.

Here's the lesson: It would've made more sense for the Yankees to overpay Lieber somewhat on a short-term deal, rather than go out and spend $40 million on a Carl Pavano in a long-term deal.

So as you consider the landscape for the free-agent market this fall, you see Carlos Lee perhaps in line for $75 million over five years, Alfonso Soriano looking at $65 million over five years. Abreu may not be as dynamic as either of those players, offensively, and he may be overpaid slightly for his power production, at $15 million for next year. But the obligation is only for one year.

Now Sheffield's option is about to come due, for $13 million, and there is no question he is a productive player. Don't be surprised now if the Yankees exercise the option -- this way, they can limit their long-term obligation, while still having a very solid offensive player.

And it may be that as Sheffield comes back, they will try the former shortstop and third baseman at first base. This is the Yankees wielding their financial power -- only a couple of teams would've even been in position to consider the Abreu deal -- but in a different manner.

2. Abreu may or may not hit for a lot of power while in New York, he may or may not produce like a $15 million player. But there is no question that the addition of Abreu is going to transform the Yankees' lineup into an absolute meatgrinder against starting pitchers because of his extended at-bats, as the Red Sox lineup was in 2004. Abreu will be the Yankees' version of Kevin Youkilis in this regard, except he's going to hit in the middle of the lineup.

The average number of pitches per plate appearance in the big leagues is around 3.75. Consider how tough the Yankees' lineup will be once Sheffield and Hideki Matsui come back from their injuries:

Pitches per plate appearance (with current major league ranking in parenthesis, when applicable).

Johnny Damon: 4.02 (30th)
Derek Jeter: 3.74 (94th)
Jason Giambi: 4.32 (3rd)
Sheffield: 3.78
Abreu: 4.47 (1st)
Alex Rodriguez: 3.74 (94th)
Matsui: 3.83
Jorge Posada: 3.74 (94th)
Robinson Cano: 3.15

That means an average. 34.79 pitches to get through the order one time. You can forsee a scenario in which opposing starters need 19-22 pitches consistently to get through innings. That means the starters will go out more quickly, and the Yankees' hitters will have chances to feast on the soft middle-relief underbellies of opposing teams."

2006-07-31 07:31:58
20.   Sliced Bread
19 In other words, what I'm trying to say is what Buster said.

Thanks for the Insider scoop, Alex.

2006-07-31 07:32:09
21.   bp1
17 Sliced, from your keyboard to God's (Cashman's) ear. I would hate to see Sheff leave, as he was the most feared hitter in the lineup. Who would want to see Sheff going to Boston? Not me.
2006-07-31 07:32:29
22.   Alvaro Espinoza
18 Sliced, you ever see "A Few Good Men"?

"Your passion is compelling Jo, but it's also useless..."

Sheff is great but not a luxury the Yanks will support in 2007.

The offseason priority will be pitching which will cost more pretty pennies (for a team already sporting a disgracefully bloated payroll). I can't see them enduring Sheff's ego when they can let him walk. Given his wrist injury and the fact that he will not be a priority you need to prepare yourself for the liklihood that he will not be here in '07. I'd also be surprised if they didn't prioritize a 1B glove. Giambi is a butcher and Phillips appears to be persona non grata.

Hey, I like Shef but I don't see how in the world he fits on this team next year. Barring some significant player movement via major trades, there's no supportable role for him. And if I'm wrong I'll say so.

2006-07-31 07:34:10
23.   Alvaro Espinoza
19 Sheffield at 1B? Good grief...
2006-07-31 07:36:24
24.   Simone
Again I agree with Cliff and the others who feel this was a good trade for the Yankees. Abreu is a good player who will be extremely useful. To me Lidle is the real prize though. If he can just give 6 to 7 decent innings, the Yankees should pick up an extra win or two and the bullpen will get a rest. Good job by Cashman getting these players without giving up a high level prospects.

17 $13 million is too much for Sheffield. He was overpaid from the jump. There was no great demand for him and no one was going to pay that malcontent close to that much money. The most he would have made $8 million per year. Sheffield was lucky that George was infatuated with his bat. Now that the Yankees about to get out from under that contract and he is essentially a DH, they would be crazy to pick up his option.

5 If Sheffield really feels that way, he is a dope. If he doesn't play again this season, he will discover that his market value in the off season will be Frank Thomas like.

2006-07-31 07:40:52
25.   tommyl
21, 22 I said it before, but I'll say it again. We don't have to make a decision on Sheff right now. Lets see how he performs when/if he comes back and where we are at the end of the season. There's too much unknown at this point to make any kind of decision.

19 Thanks Alex. Buster makes a good point. Its likely to be a weak free agent class next year. Also, the Yankees can get burned more easily in terms of long term deals because of the NY factor: some just can't hack it here. One year of Sheff slightly overpaid is much better than 3-5 years of someone else who might underperform.

With Sheff/Giambi as a DH/1B platoon next year the only player left out is Melky, but I think assuming our OF will remain healthy is very optimistic. So his age 22 year starts as a 4th OF, but he'll break in. Then you can get rid of Bubba, keep someone like Phillips or Cairo for IF utility and LIDR and actually build a real bench from there.

2006-07-31 07:41:31
26.   bp1
24 Sheff was damn near MVP his first season with the Yankees. Hard to say he was overpaid.
2006-07-31 07:42:38
27.   Bama Yankee
Is there any doubt that Brian Cashman frequents the Bronx Banter?

Over the last few weeks we have been reading requests similar to the following:

Get us a corner OF...
and make sure he is a .300/.400/.500 guy...
and make sure he has a good arm...
and has some speed...
and make sure he can replace Sheff if he never fully recovers...
but we really need a 5th starter, too...
but most importantly we don't want to give up any of our major league talent...
plus, we don't want to give up Phillip Hughes...
come to think of it, we don't want to give up any of our top prospects...
and how about free season tickets to everyone on the Bronx Banter?

Cash deserves a lot of credit for this one. I am sure some people will still find something they don't like about this trade (what no free beer at the stadium?), but you have to admit he answered most of our needs without giving up the farm. Keep up the good work Cash and keep tuning in to the Banter, we'll let you know where to send those tickets.

2006-07-31 07:43:38
28.   Sliced Bread
22 Great movie, Alvaro.

Remember this one?

"You can't handle the truth that Gary Sheffield is going to be on the Yanks in '07."

The last part of that line didn't make the final cut, but Nicolson's message was strongly implied!

2006-07-31 07:45:11
29.   tommyl
24 But one year of $13 million while letting Melky develop is better than signing someone for 4 years at $60-70 million who might be a bust, no?

What is the aversion to paying for a good DH? Ortiz, Thome all make good money. The fact that the ChiSox were willing to overpay a bit for Thome has made that lineup that much more dangerous. In the AL its a position, just like any other. You fill it with the best available player. We could do a lot worse than one year of a healthy Sheffield.

2006-07-31 07:50:53
30.   seamus
27 it is that last item i'm most concerned about! :)
2006-07-31 07:55:39
31.   Bama Yankee
22 & 28 My favortie movie. I can almost hear Sheffield saying: "You want me on this team, you NEED me on this team!" or "I play rightfield 300 feet from 4000 fans that are trained to boo me, so don't think you can trade for Bobby Abreu and make me nervous!"
2006-07-31 07:56:52
32.   Sliced Bread
Hey, Cliff, props, and thanks for your Abreu/Lidle breakdown. It's the most thorough and insightful breakdown I've read.

Now, can we put you and Alex on the spot and get a Sheffield prediction? Non-binding, of course.

2006-07-31 08:03:44
33.   unpopster
Anyone else get the feeling that Epstein is about to make a big move for the Sawx, who are surely feeling the heat coming from the BRonx?

Last night was a defining momentum shift, but that could once again shift back to Boston if Epstein makes a splash.

I was listening to Mike & Mike on ESPN this morning and someone (Olney?) mentioned that the Sawx might be in the hunt for Soriano and then move him to RF. That doesn't worry me as much as this does:

The Giants have now lost 7 straight, have a black cloud hanging over them in Bonds, might be falling out of the WC race, and have a huge commodity waiting to be traded if they decide to do so -- Jason Schmidt.

Something tells me Theo is kicking the tires on aquring him to fit in between Shelling and Beckett.

2006-07-31 08:06:27
34.   Dimelo
All good posts here. I really can't find anything about this trade that I don't like. The Yanks have put themselves in a great position with this trade.
2006-07-31 08:07:47
35.   vockins
How about Chris Shelton at 1B? The Tigers just sent him to AAA Toledo with the arrival of Casey.

That move is goofy.

2006-07-31 08:12:09
36.   Alex Belth
A Sheff prediction? Um, I predict that Sheff will riff to the media about being underappreciated and then I predict that he'll hit the cover off the ball for someone, somewhere. I've enjoyed watching Sheff play an awful lot so it'd be a bummer if he's played his last game in pinstripes. Be interesting if they do what Olney suggests, and pick up his 2007 option. I sure wouldn't complain if they did, though playing with just a one-year deal would likely ignite Sheff to the press.

Bascially, the Sheff cycle is Riff, Mash, Riff, Mash.

2006-07-31 08:18:36
37.   Sliced Bread
36 "Riff, Mash, Riff, Mash."

Right on! A smidge less riff, and a dollop more mash from our "Sheff of the Future" would be appreciated.

2006-07-31 08:21:18
38.   profound
Sheffield : "You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Abreu's acquisition, while tragic, probably saves the playoffs. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves next year. You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me in right field, you need me in right field. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the offensive power that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it! I would rather you just said, "Thank you," and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a bat and man a position. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to!
2006-07-31 08:23:51
39.   Sliced Bread
38 profound goes deep!
2006-07-31 08:33:53
40.   Alvaro Espinoza
33 Either way, the next 5 hours should be entertaining ones. I'm all for the Sox falling on their face today.

Prediction - Theo will engineer an 8-team trade that will involve Mike Lowell moving to 3 separate teams in 4 different time zones only to wind up back in Boston by next Wednesday playing 2 postions at the same time. Gabe Kapler will be moved to the starting rotation and Matt Clement will shave that silly pube patch from under his chin thereby adding 2.6 miles to his fastball. Theo will be heralded a hero by Red Sux Nation for incredible calm in holding the fort as the Sox coast to another wild card berth on the back of a Big Papi clutch steal of home in the 9th inning of game 163.

2006-07-31 08:34:46
41.   tommyl
38 The problem is, I'd gladly try to take ABs. I'd suck, but I'd try it. Standing on a wall in Cuba though, not so much.
2006-07-31 08:47:51
42.   rbj
35 That's odd. I guess Dimitri Young wasn't the left handed bat they were looking for. It's good new for the Mudhens though.
2006-07-31 08:49:57
43.   monkeypants
29 Agreed. I thought that I read someplace that starting DH was one of the higher paid positions in the AL, which makes sense if a team carries basically another starting 1B bat for the job. Unfortunately, the Yankees in the last few years seem to have forgotten the 'hitter' part of DH. If they want real production out of that spot, they have to pay the $$.
2006-07-31 08:53:46
44.   Shaun P
38 Bravo, profound!

I think Sheff comes back in pinstripes next year. You know he's going to ask for at least a two year deal, maybe even a 3-year deal, on the open market, at big bucks (at least $12 mil/year). Who would pay that for a 38-year-old coming off an injury to his right wrist, the source of all his power?

Omar and the Mets maybe, but that's about it.

2006-07-31 08:54:28
45.   pistolpete
13 "This trade in no way assures the Yankees a free pass into the post season. "

I think that's stating the obvious.

2006-07-31 09:13:59
46.   profound
What I like best about this trade, is not having to give up Melki. I thought for sure philly would require an MLB ready outfielder (and I think the Yankees might have done it had they held out another day!)

I agree in saying we should hold onto Sheff for 07, the guy is just money...and really, to see him go to Boston with a chance for revenge isnt a pretty thought.

2006-07-31 09:21:42
47.   pistolpete
46 Yeah, better off signing him than see him go to our direct competitors, who seem to have an immediate RF vacancy with Nixon getting 'up there' in years.

Also, Sheffield > Nady/Chavez, so that's another possibility..

2006-07-31 09:23:32
48.   RIYank
If Sheff really can play first, I say pick up the option. Otherwise, I'd rather see Cashman find a blue chip first baseman. Craig Wilson? Nomar?
2006-07-31 09:38:04
49.   seamus
If Sheff can play first, that really does set up a nice platoon situation where each position can rotate like this:

1B Giambi/Sheff/utility inf.
RF Abreu/Sheff/Cabrera
CF Damon/Cabrera
LF Matsui/Cabrera
DH Sheff/Cabrera/whoever needs rest

That is incredible depth and if anyone gets injured we don't lose a whole lot on our offense or defense.

2006-07-31 09:41:03
50.   monkeypants
48 I can't see any reason why he can't play first. I mean, in the 'old days' managers used slot aging players at 1B all the time. The question is whether he can play it well enough to be a defensive upgrade over Giambi (I suspect yes). If yes, then you can play Giambi at DH and Sheff at 1B. If not, then you switch them. If they they are both bad at first, then you need to carry a defensive replacement (the perfect role for Andy?).
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-07-31 09:43:20
51.   profound
Sheff should be DH bound no matter where he goes, unless he stays in right for someone else. Ever since he pinned bubba up against the wall to end our season last year, ive seen him as a liability in the field. And at 38, coming off a wrist injury, it just makes sense. The guys never been a great fielder to my knowledge, and his value as a DH is huge.

I agree, we should be paying for a BIG DH hitter like everyone else (White/RedSox).

2006-07-31 09:54:59
52.   bp1
General question - if you could pick between healthy Sheff and healthy Giambi as your DH, which would you pick?

If Sheff, any chance the Yankees cash in on Giambi's power numbers this year and work out a trade that turns Giambino into a decent starting pitcher?

Just asking.

2006-07-31 10:00:10
53.   YankeeInMichigan
35 42 Actually, the Tigers' acquisition of Casey was a brilliant one, especially since they needed to give up only a double-A reliever. DY's re-emergence made them a bit less desparate, but a recovering addict is always high-risk. Besides, Marcus Thames has reverted to .177/.261/.403 in July, so the there is plenty of room for Casey and Young at 1B/DH. With Casey, Young, Thames and Monroe, the Tigers are 4-deep at LF/1B/DH, not a bad place to be. As for Red Pop (a nickname that only a Michigander will appreciate), he has put up will-below-league-average numbers since May, and has recently looked lost at the plate, and some time in Toledo may do him will. Casey and Young are both free agents next year, so the Tigers are certainly not eager to deal Shelton.
2006-07-31 10:05:23
54.   Alex Belth
This site seems to have all the latest...

2006-07-31 10:07:50
55.   pistolpete
54 I actually look at the MLB section of every morning - of course, it doesn't get updated until the following day.
2006-07-31 10:12:53
56.   Dimelo
I decided to listen to the WFAN, they stream via the net, I wanted to hear what Mike and the Puppy were going to say....I can't believe I put myself through this punishment and listen to Russo be a f'ing c*ck.
2006-07-31 10:28:20
57.   unpopster
Fun rumor on Rotoworld:

The Braves were offering Andruw Jones to the Red Sox for Coco Crisp, Jon Lester and Craig Hansen, the Lawrence Eagle Tribune's Rob Bradford told WEEI radio.

2006-07-31 10:29:44
58.   JohnnyC
Dimelo, it's always too tempting to check in on Mike & MD but, really, it's a lose-lose proposition, especially now that Francesa has turned into Mike Lupica. Russo's act is so stale that I hope he realizes he wouldn't have a viable career other than the precise situation he's in right now: Mets station as an agent provocateur Yankee-hater to entertain those bitter Mets fans who actually think (just cause he's a hater) that he gives a flying f**k about their home team (he doesn't). Put him in Cleveland or any other one-team town and he's working as a roofer. I wonder if he's tried unsuccessfully to get a gig in SF. But, then again, maybe his Giants man-crush is just another flimsy act. Take my advice, never turn the dial to 660. You're better off.
2006-07-31 10:29:49
59.   pistolpete
56 So Russo's in there by himself today? Oy vei.

I know Mike loved the idea of getting Abreu - he just didn't want to give up anyone such as Wang, Cano or obviously Hughes. He's probably pretty happy with the current deal, I would imagine.

2006-07-31 10:30:18
60.   rbj
52 Tough one, bp1. I'd almost go with Shef, I think he's a bit speedier than Jason, but Jason's younger -- although they're both breaking down.
I really don't see Jason getting moved anywhere unless the Yanks eat a huge part of his contract. I can't imagine Steinbrenner swallowing that.
2006-07-31 10:34:46
61.   Simone
57 If the Red Sox get Andruw Jones that would be a good pick up for them, but they will feel the loss of Lester and Hansen.
2006-07-31 10:36:07
62.   Shaun P
57 It never hurts to ask, does it?

I think the Red Sox are feeling lots of media pressure to make a deal to match the Yanks' pickup of Abreu - thanks, 'EEI and other Boston-panic-inducing media outlets!! - and I bet, if they do make a deal, they will pay a lot more than the Yanks did.

2006-07-31 10:37:08
63.   JohnnyC
57 Great deal for Braves. Jones is a chronic injury on the bad side of his career. Unless they can get him to start working out with Gabe Kapler :), his inevitable decline is clearly in sight. Bad thing is he'd have Ortiz as his mentor, making sure he'd reach for that clutch double cheeseburger when he's stetching before each game.
2006-07-31 10:37:22
64.   RIYank
57 Hard to believe.
Andruw is under contract next year plus an option the following year (is this right? I'm relying on memory). At the moment he's a great player at a good price -- lots of power and his glove speaks for itself -- but surely his value starts to drop fast after that even if the Sawx could expect to sign him up again. And Lester just looks too good, esp. to a team like Boston with a very dubious rotation.
Drop Lester from the deal and I can see Theo pulling the trigger. But I bet the Braves want Lester bad.
2006-07-31 10:40:21
65.   pistolpete
If I were the Sox I'd definitely go after a starter and/or a solid late innings guy to precede Papelbon.
2006-07-31 10:41:17
66.   Dimelo
59 Yeah he's solo. Man he's annoying.....I need to listen to WFAN because I have to try and get work done. Easier to listen than to keep surfing. I know, I know...what a bummer.

58 I agree with you, but sometimes you're's just do damn tempting to listen.

2006-07-31 10:41:56
67.   RIYank
65 That's what they need -- Foulke is back to rehab -- but who's available?
2006-07-31 10:49:05
68.   Dimelo
Completely off topic, but funny as hell...
2006-07-31 10:59:07
69.   Shaun P
68 Dimelo, where do you find this stuff?


I think I even know a Jets fan who would be only too happy to do all that.

2006-07-31 11:03:06
70.   JohnnyC
His wife sounds interesting...
2006-07-31 11:05:43
71.   pistolpete
67 Well, Lidge is available from Houston from what I'm reading...

So, Dimelo, how exactly is Russo trashing this deal? Or is he playing the 'money/Yankees ruining baseball' card today?

2006-07-31 11:06:13
72.   JCP22
I love this addition. Yanks are more fun to watch when they run and don't stand around waiting for HR's. My top four goes Damon, Jeter, Abreu, Arod...all can steal a base here and there and all get on base a lot. Lineup is scary as it stands, add in Sheffield and watch out. Melky needs to be in mix next year so either DH Matsui or, if proven healthy this year, deal him for a starter or bullpen help next year. If you deal him, you could keep Sheff as DH if money is no object or just let Sheff walk and fill in as needed.

It would have been preferable to land a quality starter for those prospects, but failing that, I think Cashman did a good job.

2006-07-31 11:09:33
73.   mehmattski
116 minutes until the trade deadline, and Alfonso Soriano is still a National. I'm going to pick 3:34 PM as the time he is traded, anyone else want to start a pool?

The most hilarous of the deadline rumors must be the one having Soriano going to the Marlins for a few pitching prospects, and then Florida flipping Sori to the Tigers for a few position players. Eek.

2006-07-31 11:10:09
74.   Sliced Bread
68 Just showed that to a guy in my office who's a Jets season ticket holder. He laughed his Jets lovin'ass off. Wants to at least buy the guy a beer.
If enough Jet fans see this offer guy won't have to buy a single round next season.
2006-07-31 11:11:54
75.   Dimelo
69 A link at deadspin.

71 Yeah, he's talking about how the Yanks are ruining baseball because of all their money. It's always the money angle. Let'em gripe.

2006-07-31 11:12:37
76.   profound
That link is hilarious. I was with him until he got to the skirt and lack of retaliation.

Im a HUGE Jets fan, and id even CONSIDER wearing it for a free ticket, but id have to attack anyone whistling.

Is it just me, or is this guy crazy for even attending games where his ex and her new guy are rows away? All I need is 1 reason like this to get off the broken Jets bandwagon ive been hitched to all these years.

2006-07-31 11:14:49
77.   Sliced Bread
76 Obviously a masochist, one of 60-something thousand textbook cases attending every Jets game.
2006-07-31 11:15:53
78.   Knuckles
Neyer obviously does not read much Bronx Banter:

SportsNation Rob Neyer: (1:17 PM ET ) I know a lot of Yankee fans, and generally they're nice people. But make no mistake: if the Yankees could have a $500 million payroll and every other team was limited to $25 million, every Yankee fan would be thrilled.

2006-07-31 11:18:01
79.   smingers
71 pistolpete, I don't know about Russo, but Rob Neyer over at sure did. He called the deal "unsporting." Am I missing something? Should Cashman have told Gillick, "Gee, that trade would really help our team, but it wouldn't be fair to the other teams, so I have to pass"? Is Steinbrenner the only rich owner in the league? Are the other owners working second jobs just to support their beer vendors?

Neyer also took a swipe at Yankee fans, lamenting how we wish the Yanks could have a $500 million payroll while all the other teams are capped at $25 million. Of course we do! Does he think Red Sox fans are demanding that Theo lower their payroll? Are Royals fans sitting around saying to themselves, "Sure, our team sucks, but at least we get to be noble. All we really care about it competitive balance and egalitarianism."

Plus, as far as I can tell, this deal doesn't really push the Yankees' payroll much higher. Abreu gives them the option to let Sheff walk, plus Lidle is only making a few million and is soon a free agent. Or we can keep him and cut bait on Jaret Wright.

For supposedly being a part of the movement to bring more logic and reason to how we think about baseball, guys like Neyer have no perspective or objectivity when it comes to the NYY.

2006-07-31 11:18:30
80.   JohnnyC
You can taste the fear emanating from the glands of Yankee haters like Neyer. Good!
2006-07-31 11:19:25
81.   Shaun P
Latest from Jayson Stark:

"The A's have been told they 'don't have the bullets' to land Soriano.

Marlins-Tigers-Washington 3-way looks like it's on life support.

Another team was told by Bowden he has two deals he can do right now on Soriano _ one with an NL team (Astros?), one with an AL team (Twins?).

And on Tejada, I was told there's only a '5 percent chance' of that deal going down now."

I wouldn't be surprised to see Soriano end up in Houston. So, I'll take 3:57 PM EDT in mehmattski's pool 73.

2006-07-31 11:21:06
82.   Dimelo
Gordon Edes is saying that the Sux passed on the deal for Andruw Jones.
2006-07-31 11:21:17
83.   Shaun P
78 79 80 Please tell me I'm not the only one who caught the sarcasm in that post by Neyer.
2006-07-31 11:23:23
84.   JohnnyC
"For supposedly being a part of the movement to bring more logic and reason to how we think about baseball, guys like Neyer have no perspective or objectivity when it comes to the NYY." Seriously, that has always been a major, major problem with the "sabermetric project": you only become interested in sabermetrics if you're a fan and, thus, you can't escape the parochialism that characterizes being a fan. The late, lamented Don Malcolm fought the good fight on this particular issue, i.e., even the best sabermetricians (yes, Bill James)don't try very hard to rid their work of fan bias. Neyer is, admittedly, the worst example of this. Sad thing is, he's willfully ignorant about it.
2006-07-31 11:26:42
85.   rbj
76 Yeah, the skirt killed it for me. Plus the fact I live in Toledo (oh boy, all those Lions' games on tv) and that I'm a Giants fan.

They guy actually needs to get some hot young things to go the games with him. Maybe do some dumpster diving at Jeter's place.

This is one of the really fun parts of the baseball season; especially with the wild card so many teams are/think they are in it. Every team has weaknesses, so now they all have to figure out ways to fix their flaws.

2006-07-31 11:28:02
86.   tommyl
68 The link is gone. Can someone tell me the gist of the post?
2006-07-31 11:28:35
87.   Dimelo
Ugh Neyer!!!! Can't he just go and swallow all of James' babies. That seems to be the only thing he's good at.
2006-07-31 11:33:57
88.   pistolpete
83 Scary thing is I don't think he's being all that sarcastic.

79 Always the way - either the Yanks have made an 'awful' deal/signing & overspent for an overrated player, or they've pulled off some sort of 'heist', which sets back the sport at least 5-10 years.

As Yankees fans we'll never be in the right, we'll never have anyone's sympathy, and we'll never gain any former haters as converts. I laugh whenever someone claims it's "easy" to be a Yankees fan.

To me it's easy being a KC Royals fan. No expectations, no hope, and no one hates your guts for wearing a 'KC' hat...

2006-07-31 11:37:38
89.   smingers
88 Amen.
2006-07-31 11:38:43
90.   tommyl
79 88 Actually ESPNC did a piece awhile back on the 5 reasons you can't blame Steinbrenner for the parity problem in baseball. One of the reasons given was that plenty of other teams make close to what the Yankees do but don't invest back into the product. I can't remember which crappy team it is, but one of them is owned by the owner of Wal-Mart. Couldn't that guy funnel a bit of money into his team? He could, but he doesn't.

Until teams like KC, TB and their ilk spend the bulk of their revenue sharing dollars on the team I don't want to hear it. So long as that money is ending up in the owners' and executives pockets they have nothing to complain about.

2006-07-31 11:40:36
91.   yankaholic
i think Rob neyer gets away with a lot of nonsense..

with him...we all try and think first.. is he serious?? is he sarcastic??..

well, sarcastic or not, he always soils the yankee name..

its a shame to call him an even handed analyst..

2006-07-31 11:41:30
92.   mehmattski
88 Moving back to Durham, NC after graduating from Duke, I've found its easiest to wear a Durham Bulls hat. Everyone hates Duke, everyone hates the Yankees, but no one can hate DaBulls. Especially when their opening night attendance (around 15K) outdrew the big league team's home game that night.

Even better, the only Yankees jersey I own is #42. Because people will start to bitch at me for wearing a Yankees jersey, until I turn around and they don't see the hated #2, #13, or players like that. Rivera demands, and gets respect, even from the biggest haters.

2006-07-31 11:41:34
93.   tommyl
Latest rumor has Boston talking to the Bucs about Kip Wells, who despite a decent July is 1-6 with a 6.69 ERA. Fine by me.

They seem to have turned down the A. Jones deal.

2006-07-31 11:43:26
94.   Bama Yankee
86 I can email it to you if you would like, if you don't mind to post your email address.
2006-07-31 11:44:11
95.   smingers
90 As far as the Wal-Mart owner being a cheapskate, no surprise there. I believe five of the heirs to the Walton forture are billionaires, yet they give a pittance to charitable causes. As Buffett and Gates have shown, not all billionaires are created equal.
2006-07-31 11:44:25
96.   JohnnyC
"I can't remember which crappy team it is, but one of them is owned by the owner of Wal-Mart. Couldn't that guy funnel a bit of money into his team? He could, but he doesn't." That's David Glass. He owns the Royals. Surprised? Now you know why Neyer acts the way he does...on top of his childhood hatred for the Yankees destroying his favorite team's playoff hopes year after year (except 1980).
2006-07-31 11:44:57
97.   Dimelo
90 Dave Pinto at Baseball Musings had a good piece on that too. He wrote a piece during interleague play where he basically said the reason the AL is dominating so much is that all AL teams have to compete against the Yanks, in the NL there is no Yankee team to compete against - hence why they can get away with putting the bare minimums into their teams. They don't have the Yankees to compete against, and to a lesser extent the Red Sox.
2006-07-31 11:46:37
98.   pistolpete
92 Yeah, I've actually turned my focus to collecting all things 'Mo' lately - balls, cards, posters, etc.

I haven't owned a pro jersey since Mattingly, mostly because there's been no one around long enough or been as great for the amount of time that Rivera's been since #23. I'm getting close to picking up a #42, maybe before Christmas...

Obviously Jeter's an option as well, but I'm not a 14-yr old girl last I checked... ;-)

2006-07-31 11:47:29
99.   Sliced Bread
Hey, look, is it the Yankees fault if the Phillies do business like a small market club?

Where were the Neyers of the world when it appeared the Red Sox had raped the Marlins for Beckett?
All we heard then was the bleating of sheep: "Theo's cluuuutch! Even when he's hiiiiiding!"

Now it's "Baaaaad Yankees. Baaaaad."

F'in sheep.

2006-07-31 11:49:14
100.   JohnnyC
It's a good thing sabermetrics was developed by Bill James, a Royals fan, because if it had been introduced by a Yankees fan, the world would not have any idea what an OPS or ERA+ was. No sir, they wouldn't have any of it, no, thank you.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-07-31 11:50:59
101.   tommyl
97 Agreed. My point is, I agree the Yankees have an advantage in terms of money, but that is principally because the team is run in the model of a major European soccer team in that it exists for the on the field product and the majority of profits are invested back into the team. There are a few other teams that seem to do that, such as the Red Sox, but the majority are run like American businesses whereby the maximum amount of money is taken out of the team. You don't think Ted Turner and his TBS revenues could match the Yankees if they wanted to?

Of course teams like KC will never be able to spend as much as the Yankees, but they could be spending a lot more than they do. Its their own choice to run out a AAA team and I'm sick and tired of people blaming the big, bad evil Yankees for it. I mean KC can't even beat TB! Now, a team like the Marlins might have a more legitemate gripe. They are putting a good product on the field and are always trying to field the best team they can (or rebuld for the future). It just sucks they are in a crappy location.

2006-07-31 11:54:09
102.   Dimelo
101 I agree. I was just adding to the points you were making. Not disagreeing with you.
2006-07-31 11:54:53
103.   unpopster
A nice juicy little note on about our favorite little retiree:

"Roger Clemens isn't asking for a trade, but a source told the Boston Globe's Nick Cafardo that he wouldn't veto a deal to the Red Sox or Yankees.
The Providence Journal says Clemens has told friends he's sorry he picked the Astros over the Red Sox. Still, it's highly unlikely that he'll be traded before the deadline or in August."

At Roger's salary, the 'Stros could put him on waivers next month and the only two teams that could realistically grab him are the Sawx and Yanks. I almost hope that the Sawx keep that slim 1/2 game lead until the waivers deadline passes.

2006-07-31 11:55:12
104.   tommyl
100 Fine by me. It'd be great if the Yankees FO was the only one that knew what OPS was still. We'd be unstoppable.
2006-07-31 11:55:59
105.   tommyl
102 Oh I know, I wasn't arguing. I was just venting :).
2006-07-31 11:58:53
106.   Dimelo
Via MLB Trade Rumors:
McAdam: Red Sox Discussing Extension With Lugo

Via RotoWorld:

"The Providence Journal's Sean McAdam said on WEEI radio that the Red Sox have been in contact with Julio Lugo's agents to discuss a contract extension."

Nothing on this from the Boston Globe guys just yet. The D-Rays are going to have to scramble if they want to get something better than a couple of compensation draft picks for Lugo. One hour left.

Lugo would be great for the Sawx. He'll definitely make that lineup better being their leadoff hitter.

2006-07-31 12:00:49
107.   JohnnyC
101 Ted Turner doesn't own the Braves anymore. Sadly, it's owned by Time Warner. And, the Marlins are not a good example either since they are the direct result of Bud Selig's truly Evil Empire of franchises seeking to rape municipalities in order to get free stadia built by refusing to field a team with a payroll above the barest minimum. Besides George, the owner Selig hates most is Peter Magowan of the Giants, who built a stadium entirely with his own funds. Bud won't be inviting Magowan to his latest grandchild's bris anytime soon.
2006-07-31 12:02:47
108.   yankaholic
SportsNation MLB TRADE UPDATE from The Mag's Amy Nelson: (2:58 PM ET )

Three baseball sources say that Pirates RHP Kip Wells is on the verge of being traded to Boston, and that the two sides are ironing out details to get it done. A deal could be done at "any minute," a baseball source says.

2006-07-31 12:03:38
109.   JohnnyC
Oh no, Kip Wells! Theo's a genius! Boy, talk about one-upmanship.
2006-07-31 12:04:34
110.   mehmattski
106Having just stated being a Durham Bulls fan, I still cannot understand the inner workings of the D-Rays front office. They waited a year too long to trade their biggest chip in franchise history (Huff) and get back a middle of the road SS and back of the rotation starter. Next, they move their biggest prospect (Upton) to third base, and promptly do... nothing.

To complicate matters, their three big names in Durham (Upton, Young, and Dukes) have all recently griped about how they're still playing in AAA, how any other club would have them in the majors already, and that the D-Rays FO and Joe Maddon are basically bumbling fools.

So maybe the D-Rays will hang onto Lugo just in case Maddon decides to have Upton whacked. Such promising talent, such confusing actions by the FO.

2006-07-31 12:04:58
111.   JohnnyC
You know I hate it when teams like the Red Sox go out and take advantage of small-market teams like Pittsburgh. Think of what the Royals could do if they could afford Kip Wells.
2006-07-31 12:07:18
112.   tommyl
111 Lose just as many games? ;)
2006-07-31 12:07:31
113.   yankaholic
Mike (VA): Why did the Phillies give the yankees Abru for nothing?

SportsNation John Manuel: (3:00 PM ET )

Mike, the Phillies weren't going to win anything in '06 and probably not '07 as well. Pat Gillick has decided his biggest job is just to get rid of the contracts and bad vibes the Ed Wade regime left him. I don't necessarily disagree, but I'm still surprised they got so little for their salary dump. I'm not particularly high on any of the four prospects they got from the Yankees, and I've been a Matt Smith fan for a while actually.

2006-07-31 12:08:19
114.   tommyl
Latest on the Sox from Will Carroll:

Carroll: Red Sox Looking At Craig Wilson, Geoff Jenkins, Moises Alou

In his latest update, Will Carroll tell us:

"The Sox are also looking for cheap outfield help as a backup in case tests on Trot Nixon come up with a poor result. There are several names in play, including Craig Wilson, Geoff Jenkins, and Moises Alou. The question here will be price and fit. The Sox, even if Nixon is out for the year, could go with Gabe Kapler and Wily Mo Pena if the price is too high on an acquisition."

My hunch is that the BoSox go with the latter solution, but I'm surprised how little action there has been on Alou.

2006-07-31 12:09:03
115.   Shaun P
90 David Glass is the guy you're talking about - former CEO and President of Wal-Mart who, sadly, owns the Royals.

To bring it all full-circle, Neyer grew up (and remains) a Royals fan.

The sarcasm I found in the comment Knuckles quoted in 78 is that, IMHO, Neyer doesn't think for a moment that that situation isn't true for many fans of any team. I've found his strange sense of sarcastic humor is often targeted at getting a rise out of people who he feels shouldn't worry about what he thinks. (I believe he said as much once in a book of his, or a radio interview - can't remember which.) And, of course, he got quite a rise out of a number of Yankee fans with that one.

2006-07-31 12:10:54
116.   tommyl
Duaner Sanchez Out For Season

Duaner Sanchez, one of the game's best setup men, is out for the season after separating his shoulder in a car accident, according to Ken Rosenthal. I'm just glad to see he is OK.

Omar Minaya has 51 minutes to step it up and find a replacement.

2006-07-31 12:11:28
117.   Sliced Bread
Kip Wells.

Career ERA vs Yanks 8.54
Yanks Batting Avg. Against Kip Wells .354

Get this done now, Kid Kong!

2006-07-31 12:12:25
118.   tommyl
117 that an improvement over Clement or not? ;)
2006-07-31 12:13:41
119.   Cliff Corcoran
Wow, you guys sound like a bunch of victims. The Yankees pull of a steal of a deal and are sitting pretty for a stretch run at their 12th straight playoff appearance and the thread degenerates into complaining about Yankee-haters and how tough it is to be a fan of the hated Yankees. Poor babies.

88 Was the topper: "As Yankees fans we'll never be in the right, we'll never have anyone's sympathy, and we'll never gain any former haters as converts. I laugh whenever someone claims it's 'easy' to be a Yankees fan. To me it's easy being a KC Royals fan. No expectations, no hope, and no one hates your guts for wearing a 'KC' hat..."

Pete, I'd love to see just how long you'd last rooting for a hopeless club like the Royals. The Yankees have 26 World Championships, a endless parade of Hall of Fame talent, have been in the playoffs every year for more than a decade, and have averted what appeared to be a impending collapse due to the sudden emergence of a crop of young home grown talent (from Tabata to Cabrera) and Brian Cashman's masterful palace coup resulting in a drastically improved organizational approach.

Do you guys really need the Mad Dog Russo's of the world to say nice things about the team as well? What is this a Sally Field convention? Remember what Jeter always says, boos on the road are like cheers at home. If Russo and Neyer et al. had legitimate on-field criticisms of the deal, that would be one thing, but you really need to thicken your skin a bit when guys trying to fill air/chat time take a few cheap shots.

In other words, get over it.

2006-07-31 12:16:03
120.   yankaholic
116 Minaya heard it or read it...

SportsNation MLB TRADE UPDATE from Jayson Stark: (3:10 PM ET )

Mets are closing in on a big deal with the Pirates, for Roberto Hernandez and Oliver Perez. Still haggling about the rest of that deal.

2006-07-31 12:17:46
121.   tommyl
116 I don't know, I got it off
2006-07-31 12:18:29
122.   tommyl
Nady for Perez and Hernadez seems to be the deal. Not sure if the Mets are including anyone else.
2006-07-31 12:18:47
123.   tommyl
That's Hernandez, sorry.
2006-07-31 12:19:29
124.   Cliff Corcoran
Lemme guess, the Jacket thinks he can fix Perez?
2006-07-31 12:19:52
125.   yankaholic
119 Cliff.. no Yankee fan needs the love of a KC fan.. but we dont need the hate of them also.. i think thats all we ask..

i think one issue that riles me no end is that.. when Yanks spend it.. other teams fans dont wake up and say .. "hey u dont have to spend 200 mill cant u spend 60 to 70 mill"

"we also pay for beer and ground nuts and watching the good show off the field from the mascot"

the PR machine of the other teams have made those fans so brain dead.. they don realise.. this disparity wudnt exist or be so bloated.. if their owner had done something for THEM..

and regarding the deal itself.. i think the deal is a steal on a trade-basis.. i am gonna sit and see how this helps us..

we could not have done any better on the trade.. now we have to wait n see n hope its as effective as it looks on paper..

2006-07-31 12:21:19
126.   JohnnyC
Lighten up, Cliff. We are not going Red Sox Nation on you. Just some frustrations seeping out at the edges. We're a happy bunch today.
2006-07-31 12:23:05
127.   Shaun P
124 If he could, that would be pretty helpful for the Mets . . .

That puts Milledge up in the bigs as the everyday RF . . . despite the pitching help, which the Mets clearly need now, it leaves their OF pretty thin if, say, Cliff Floyd gets hurt between now and October. I don't see a team winning the Serious while playing an Endy Chavez/Eli Marrero combination in RF or LF.

2006-07-31 12:23:38
128.   yankaholic's Jon Heyman reports the Mets have traded Xavier Nady to the Pirates for Oliver Perez and Roberto Hernandez.
2006-07-31 12:25:45
129.   yankaholic
128 effectively.. Mike Cameron for R Hernandez and Oliver Perez..

Nl East has some good GMs

2006-07-31 12:27:52
130.   Sliced Bread
119 Sally Field Convention. That's rich.

"You like us, you REALLY LIKE US!"

2006-07-31 12:28:14
131.   unpopster
128 not to sound a little off-color, but does Omar Manaya only trade for latin players?
2006-07-31 12:28:56
132.   rbj
Hmmm, Clemens?
The Astros would want a bat or two, but the thing is, he'd only be a two, er three, a three month rental. If Shef comes back next year as a OF/1b, does Cashman trade Duncan? Maybe throw Bubba in there as well? Or would the Astros want more? There really isn't much expendable for NY -- until Matsui comes back we need Melky.
2006-07-31 12:29:15
133.   rbj
Hmmm, Clemens?
The Astros would want a bat or two, but the thing is, he'd only be a two, er three, a three month rental. If Shef comes back next year as a OF/1b, does Cashman trade Duncan? Maybe throw Bubba in there as well? Or would the Astros want more? There really isn't much expendable (who's good) for NY -- until Matsui comes back we need Melky.
2006-07-31 12:29:22
134.   yankaholic
131 u can ask one Ms Benson to opine on that one..
2006-07-31 12:31:08
135.   rbj
Er, sorry for the double post. Needed to add the (who's good) qualifier.
2006-07-31 12:32:28
136.   Ron Burgundy
131 It's more of a marketing thing. Minaya wants to make the Mutts appeal to NYC's latin population. Either that or he believes the theory that white men can't jump. I wouldn't know.
2006-07-31 12:37:45
137.   Cliff Corcoran
131 Paul Lo Duca? Billy Wagner (FA, I know)? Nady in the first place?
2006-07-31 12:42:23
138.   yankaholic
137 didnt they go after R amon hernandez n B Molina before teh fire sale ..
2006-07-31 12:42:24
139.   tommyl
131 I don't know, I have to give Minaya my respect. While not every deal he's made has worked out, he's made a lot of moves and really built the Mets into an exciting team. Its hard to fault him (cue about a million posts tearing him down now).
2006-07-31 12:44:07
140.   Shaun P
131 I'm pretty sure Xavier Nady is not a Latino, and Omar traded for him.

John Maine is definitely not a Latino - and Omar traded for him.

I'm damn sure Paul LoDuca is not a Latino - us Italians have names that end in vowels too! - and Omar traded for him.

Don't mean to pile on, unpopster, but I think its pretty clear that Omar doesn't have a trade for Latinos only agenda.

2006-07-31 12:44:59
141.   JohnnyC
Partly, it's because Minaya made his reputation as an evaluator and scout of Latino players. You always fall back on what you feel you know well.
2006-07-31 12:47:22
142.   Cliff Corcoran
138 Well, Ramon Hernandez would have been a better choice than Lo Duca, so you can't really point to that as evidence of a preference for Latin players on the part of Minaya. The Mets roster is more heavily Latin than I think any other team's, but it's not as if it is that at the expense of winning. Adding guys like Beltran, Pedro, and Delgado were just plain smart baseball moves.
2006-07-31 12:47:52
143.   unpopster
134, 137, 139 sheesh, it was a joke!! I know all about LoDuca and Wagner!

I guess sarcasm doesn't translate well over here on BB.

2006-07-31 12:49:29
144.   Cliff Corcoran
141 Execellent point, Johnny. It's like my Yankee-heavy fantasty team that is just points out of third place in a 12-team league. It's what I know and the Yankees happen to have a lot of valuable players.
2006-07-31 12:49:52
145.   JohnnyC
Xavier Nady is Mexican American, born and raised in Salinas, California.
2006-07-31 12:49:52
146.   tommyl
11 minutes and counting....still no word from the Sox?
2006-07-31 12:51:10
147.   tommyl
Kip Wells to the Rangers. Damn, would have loved to see him on the Sox :)
2006-07-31 12:51:16
148.   BklynBmr
131 I don't read much into that with Omar. There's a ton of Latin players available and he's got a lot of blank checks.

Funny line from Letterman last week:

"Congratulations to the new Miss Universe. Is it just me or does it seem like the winner is always from earth?"

2006-07-31 12:51:27
149.   Shaun P
143 That's always been the 'Net's biggest problem - sarcasm just doesn't come through unless you include a stupid emoticon - and that ruins the sarcasm entirely!
2006-07-31 12:52:58
150.   Shaun P
147 If the Sox end up doing nothing - except getting Brian Corey - I think the media up here will have a field day with Theo & Co.

Gotta love the Boston media, they always come through in the clutch!

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2006-07-31 12:54:09
151.   Cliff Corcoran
143 In general, sarcasm (definition: saying the opposite of what you mean for humorous effect implied by tone of voice) doesn't translate particularly well in text-only formats, but beyond that, I'm not sure 131 qualifies as sarcasm. Sarcasm would have been something like "It's a shame Minaya refuses to trade for any Latino players."
2006-07-31 12:54:24
152.   Alvaro Espinoza
139 Things have certainly come up roses in Flushing:

I think the Jae Wang Seo-Duaner Sanchez deal was his best move.

Pedro - free agent no brainer
Delgado & LoDuca (salary dumps by FLA)
Valentin and Nady certainly exceeded expectations.
Bradford and Chavez also performing quite well.

And the rest of the NL decided to take the 2006 season off.

Everything Minaya has touched has turned to gold. Watch Perez win 20 for the Mets in '07.

2006-07-31 12:54:33
153.   tommyl
150 Is there a stat for clutch media? Or is just small sample size?
2006-07-31 12:54:46
154.   tommyl
150 Is there a stat for clutch media? Or is just small sample size?
2006-07-31 12:55:23
155.   Shaun P
unpopster, further fuel to dispel your Omar-Latino fire: rumor has it that the Mets will package O Perez with Heath Bell to the Padres for Scott Linebrink.

Unless he (like X Nady) is an American of Latino descent, which I do not know.

2006-07-31 12:56:27
156.   JohnnyC
Satire has never been a particularly American thing, whether it be political satire or baseball satire. After all, Lincoln was shot watching a satirical stage play, "Our American Cousin."
2006-07-31 12:56:32
157.   seamus
Craig Wilson for Chacon!
2006-07-31 12:56:46
158.   Simone
ESPN saying the Yankees traded Chacon for Craig Wilson.
2006-07-31 12:57:11
159.   tommyl
157 Is that sarcasm or are you serious?
2006-07-31 12:57:15
160.   Shaun P
153 Yes, its called, how much money can the media personalities make by writing dumb books that pander to the insecurities of their audience.

I know of no bigger Red Sox fan than Sports Guy Bill Simmons himself - and he despises the local Boston media. To me, that says it all.

2006-07-31 12:57:25
161.   brockdc
That cannot be.
2006-07-31 12:58:00
162.   seamus
157 ESPN just announced it. Straight up deal.
2006-07-31 12:58:25
163.   BklynBmr
Just posted

Carroll On Twins' Last Minute Soriano Discussions

Via Will Carroll:

"The Twins are in rapid-fire discussions with the Nationals regarding Alfonso Soriano. The offers center around pitching, with Matt Garza and Scott Baker the keys. The Twins offered Jason Kubel in the deal in lieu of Garza, but were rebuffed. I'm told that the Twins have informed Torii Hunter that he's being offered around; his option, if declined, would help "pay for" Soriano."

We should know within minutes what Jim Bowden ultimately settles for with Soriano. My guess is that the Twins would rather stand pat than part with Garza.

2006-07-31 12:58:28
164.   JohnnyC
Craig Wilson for Chac.
2006-07-31 12:58:32
165.   Sliced Bread
This just in from Bud Selig encourages MLB General Managers to keep working. The 4pm EST trade deadline only applies to the New York Yankees.
2006-07-31 12:58:50
166.   brockdc
I take back every profanity I ever uttered against your name, Mr. Cashman.
2006-07-31 12:59:28
167.   unpopster
151 whoooooah, you're right. I wasn't being sarcastic...I was being facetious.

But can we let it die please?

2006-07-31 13:00:15
168.   tommyl
157 Wow, I mean wow, what a deal. Are the Pirates being run by monkeys or something?
2006-07-31 13:00:18
169.   Shaun P
157 Sweet! I was advocating that move last October!!! (Getting Wilson, not trading Chacon for him per se.)

Sadly, that definitely means Andy is going back to Columbus (he does have options left, right?).

2006-07-31 13:00:34
170.   Dimelo
2006-07-31 13:01:16
171.   pistolpete
119 "In other words, get over it."
Whoa whoa whoa, where's the hostility coming from? To put it simply, I was stating a fact of life - more so than bitching about it. I've come to accept the fact that I root for a team that most other baseball fans despise, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

Yankees fans can't always be surrounded by 50,000 of our like-minded counterparts, and they can't help but feel a little persecuted when the most popular national sports news outlet seemingly has it out for your favorite team. Russo's obviously an avoidable entity ( what with my XM radio subscription), and I can see right through his insane hypocrisy so it doesn't bother me as much as it used to.

Criticism of a trade/FA signing with regards to the particulars is one thing - criticism of a trade/signing simply because the Yankees were able to pull it off where other teams couldn't is quite another. Maybe, as Yankees fans, we're just more than a little defensive because the Rob Neyers and Jim Caples of the world are constantly beating the 'Yankees are the Great Satan' point into the ground every chance they get.

Time and time again we hear the 'Yankees are ruining' baseball cliche, yet somehow the other 29 teams still manage to bring in billions of dollars a year & attract scores of fans to view their product. AND keep adding more franchises & building more stadiums to boot.

The 'KC Royals' comment was a bit of (albeit grossly understated) sarcasm on my part - of course I wouldn't ask to take on the burden of having to root for such a god-awful franchise, but then again if I had the choice, why would I? I feel blessed to have been brought up a Yankees fan by my parents, and I plan to do the same with any offspring I may produce.

But interesting that my half-joke of a post got such a rise out of you - guess you can relate to how we all feel when we read a Neyer column, huh? ;-)

No worries, keep up the good work...

2006-07-31 13:01:43
172.   Shaun P
163 Garza could be a great 3rd start for the Twinkies right now. I bet you end up being right, Bklyn. I would be surprised to see the Twins give Kubel up, though.
2006-07-31 13:02:06
173.   seamus
[169} probably does mean the end for Andy's term with the club. AAA here he comes.
2006-07-31 13:02:39
174.   brockdc
168 From the Pirates' perspective it doesn't make sense on any level. Both players are free agents to be and are cheap. The only difference is that Chacon's a pitcher - and a crappy one, at that.
2006-07-31 13:02:59
175.   Simone
Wilson means that Andy is gone and Jason will DH. Is Wilson a good 1st baseman?
2006-07-31 13:04:59
176.   Shaun P
165 I laughed when I read your post, Sliced.

And then I went to

My watch says its 4:04 PM EDT. says that there's "1 minute 11 seconds" left to the deadline, when I first looked at the page.

Then I refreshed and it said there was "1 minute 47 seconds" left to the deadline.

From your mouth to Bud's ears?

2006-07-31 13:06:33
177.   phee
Andy is out of options, he won't clear waivers, someone will snag him.
2006-07-31 13:06:38
178.   BklynBmr
172 I can't take credit for that nugget, Shaun P. The entire post was a cut n' paste from the site. Sorry, should have made that clearer... You're right, it would be a good for the Twinkies...
2006-07-31 13:06:39
179.   tommyl
Maddux to the Dodgers, don't know who for yet.
2006-07-31 13:10:34
180.   brockdc
175 I like Andy a lot, but the fact that they got anyone of use for Chacon (who they probably would've DFA'd) is simply delicious.
2006-07-31 13:11:37
181.   tommyl
Mets send Perez and Bell to SD for Linebrink. Not a bad move methinks.
2006-07-31 13:11:39
182.   BklynBmr
Is it just me or is the deadline buzz bringing the Internet to a halt?
2006-07-31 13:15:12
183.   Sliced Bread
176 That's trippy. I swear I was just being sarcastic.

Can this Craig Wilson for Chac thingy be fo' reals?

2006-07-31 13:15:38
184.   sabernar
Too bad Cashman couldn't flip Andy for someone, even a middle-to-low minor leaguer. It would have been better than losing him when he's DFA'd.
2006-07-31 13:16:31
185.   Dimelo
182 It's definitely having an effect here at work.
2006-07-31 13:16:34
186.   tommyl
183 ESPN is reporting it. Of course, knowing ESPN it might just be to get Yankees fan excited and then depress them. I think it might actually be a done deal.

What happens to Ponson now? Keep him around or DFA him?

2006-07-31 13:16:42
187.   Shaun P
182 Who would have though there was so much interest in baseball, hmm? I mean, clearly people care more about the start of NFL training camps than silly old baseball.

Must be lots of training camps opening today, yeah, that's it . . .

2006-07-31 13:17:04
188.   mehmattski
Wow, everything coming in so quickly. A few ways to look at the Wilson trade: its Eduardo Sierra and Ramon Ramirez for Craig Wilson. Also, three weeks ago the Pirates would have wanted Hughes, Tabata, and Cashman's firstborn. The last few days have to be the best in Cashman's time with the Yankees.

And the Red Sox make.... ZERO MOVES... BWAHAHAHAHA

2006-07-31 13:18:28
189.   tommyl
Anyone know who got Soriano? I've heard nothing as of yet.
2006-07-31 13:19:39
190.   Ron Burgundy
189 Bowden passed out while on the phone and about to complete a trade...
2006-07-31 13:19:52
191.   BklynBmr
187 LOL! Gotta be the training camps!

188 Yesterday's quote from Schilling: "Today is one of those days where [the Yankees] make a huge deal, they win a game, I pitch like crap, we lose a game, and everybody is at the extremes," Schilling said. "As players, you just can't afford to do that."

2006-07-31 13:20:35
192.   RIYank
Trot Nixon: grade 2 biceps strain, goes to the DL.
I don't know what it means, but apparently it's bad.
I like Trot, too bad.
2006-07-31 13:21:01
193.   sabernar
Rangers get Kip Wells and Matt Stairs
2006-07-31 13:21:27
194.   tommyl
ESPN is now saying that Sori stays with the Nationals. I mean, how dumb is Jim Bowden?! Way to flip him for offseason draft picks.
2006-07-31 13:22:15
195.   brockdc
188 Sometimes the best moves are the ones that aren't made...or not.
2006-07-31 13:22:54
196.   Ron Burgundy
192 Well, they didn't make any trades, so they're stuck with Willy Mo Strikeout in RF.
2006-07-31 13:24:15
197.   BklynBmr
194 Sori's gonna be in New York next year. Cash vs Omar is officially on! Where the heck we'd put him, I have no idea...
2006-07-31 13:24:16
198.   phee
Dodgers get Maddux and now Julio Lugo, aka the human crowbar
2006-07-31 13:26:07
199.   mehmattski
196 Hey now, that's Mr. Willy Mo Strikeout, who could be playing RF for the Yankees right now if not for the Tampa faction's man-crush on Drew Henson. Or he could be playing for the Mets, had they not messed up his negotiations, causing him to sign with the Yanks.
2006-07-31 13:27:47
200.   BklynBmr
Any truth to the rumor Bowden hired Steve Phillips as a draft consultant?
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2006-07-31 13:29:35
201.   RIYank
196 Right. It casts a new light on Epstein's efforts to get an OF (which I didn't really understand before).
2006-07-31 13:32:02
202.   BklynBmr
Julio Lugo Traded To Dodgers

Word comes via ESPN that the Dodgers have acquired Julio Lugo for Joel Guzman and Sergio Pedroza.


2006-07-31 13:32:25
203.   Ron Burgundy
199 I like Willy Mo, I really do, but he just strikes out WAAAAAY too much. Robbie has little plate discipline, but he doesn't K that much. If Willy Mo just had Robbie's ability to make contact and not strikeout, he'd be awesome.
2006-07-31 13:32:53
204.   tommyl
I must say, Cashman did a phenomenal job. Remember two weeks ago when the Pirates and the Phillies were asking for people like Melky, Hughes and Tabata? Instead we get Abreu and Lidle for four non-factor prospects without having to pick up Abreu's option (and despite my early misgivings, this is a good trade). Then, having an extra crappy starter, we flip one of them for Craig Wilson, upgrading our 1B/backup OF to an .818 OPS.

See what happens when Cashman is in control? If Tampa had been we'd all be talking about whether or not Craig Wilson was worth Phillip Hughes right now.

2006-07-31 13:33:58
205.   mehmattski
So, that leaves the D-Rays with Zobrost, Upton, Guzman, Cantu, and a logjam in the outfield. Couldn't they get any ML-ready pitching? Yer killin me, TB FO!
2006-07-31 13:35:31
206.   BklynBmr
Like Alex called it in 36 — Jim Rome just now on the Abreu signing: "What's the over/under on Sheff going Sheff? An hour, a day, a week?"
2006-07-31 13:36:28
207.   Shaun P
197 Who would you rather have, Soriano or Sheffield? (I'm not just asking you, Bklyn, but everyone out there.)

I'd take Sheffield for the year via his option, and let the Mets sign Sori. I'm not convinced that Sori is ever going to repeat this year, and not that his usual is bad, but I'd rather have Sheff due to his superior OBP.

2006-07-31 13:37:39
208.   phee
Wow, spreaking of whiffs, Craig Wilson has 88 K's in 255 AB's. Ouch babe.
2006-07-31 13:37:57
209.   tommyl
207 For one year its a tough call. But Sori will likely command a 4 or 5 year deal and I'm not sure I want him for that long.
2006-07-31 13:39:36
210.   Simone
The decision not to trade Soriano just proves that Bowden is a buffoon. The Nationals can't afford Soriano. He isn't giving them any kind of hometown discount after Bowden embarassed him last off season. Poor National fans.
2006-07-31 13:41:19
211.   pistolpete
Sheffield should understand something - the Yankees needed to make preparations for the (potential) postseason, with or without him.

I would HOPE he's not sitting home brooding about it. If September 1st was the best he could do, it's really not good enough - and there's no guarantee he'll be the Gary we all know & love by the time October rolls around...

2006-07-31 13:43:49
212.   randym77
Craig Wilson, too! Wow. I've always liked him.

LoHud reports Guiel has been optioned to Columbus. Ponson has agreed to pitch out of the bullpen.

I think Andy's out of options. However, the Yankees say "he has a place on the team," so Peter thinks Bubba may be the one DFA'd tomorrow.

2006-07-31 13:44:22
213.   tommyl
211 If Sheff comes back and rakes from Sept. 1st on, the Yankees might be persuaded to pick up his option.
2006-07-31 13:48:06
214.   Ron Burgundy
OK, so what is our roster as of now?
Do we keep both Green and Cairo? I know Crosby gets DFA'd. But then do we DFA Green and replace him with Thompson?
2006-07-31 13:49:40
215.   pistolpete
213 I suspect they'll worry about it then. The decision will certainly be easier if he hits 10 home runs and hits .350 for the better part of a month, and leads us through the playoffs.

BTW, the Pirates/monkeys comment had me rolling.

2006-07-31 13:51:10
216.   RichYF
211 I don't think Sheff is as upset as the media is making him out to be. He doesn't strike me as the kind of guy that thinks he deserves hand-outs. He knows he's been out all year. He knows he has something to prove. He gets pissed when he doesn't have a contract after he has proven he can be reliable. I really don't think Sheff is that bad of a guy. I think he just likes job security. Right now, he's getting motivated for the playoffs. He knows what he has to do.

He has to look at it from the Yanks FO POV. If the Yanks "stand-pat" at the deadline, they might not make the playoffs. If the Yanks aren't playing in October, Sheff isn't playing in October. If Sheff isn't playing in October, his future is in question and he loses money. If these deals help the team, they help Sheff (as long as he can still rake).

He'll be fine. I want him on this team as much as I want DJ and Mo. He's that scary.

2006-07-31 13:52:25
217.   BklynBmr
207 Hmmm. I probably have more patience with Soriano than most, maturity issues or not. There's the youth upside, too. I love Iron Sheff, but if I had to make the call, I'd go with Sori and keep my fingers crossed.

212 Ponson out of the pen could be interesting...

214 Between Green and Cairo, Green's gotta go. The guy has some spunk, but Miggy might be the better pressure role player...

2006-07-31 13:56:50
218.   Shaun P
197 Who would you rather have, Soriano or Sheffield? (I'm not just asking you, Bklyn, but everyone out there.)

I'd take Sheffield for the year via his option, and let the Mets sign Sori. I'm not convinced that Sori is ever going to repeat this year, and not that his usual is bad, but I'd rather have Sheff due to his superior OBP.

2006-07-31 13:57:16
219.   randym77
Hey, we now have a lot of backup infielders. Miggy, Wilson, Andy, Green. Perhaps they'll option Green down to Columbus, instead of DFA'ing Bubba?

I really don't like the idea of Bernie being our only backup OFer. Neither Abreu nor Wilson has played much CF.

2006-07-31 13:57:23
220.   RichYF
211 I don't think Sheff is as upset as the media is making him out to be. He doesn't strike me as the kind of guy that thinks he deserves hand-outs. He knows he's been out all year. He knows he has something to prove. He gets pissed when he doesn't have a contract after he has proven he can be reliable. I really don't think Sheff is that bad of a guy. I think he just likes job security. Right now, he's getting motivated for the playoffs. He knows what he has to do.

He has to look at it from the Yanks FO POV. If the Yanks "stand-pat" at the deadline, they might not make the playoffs. If the Yanks aren't playing in October, Sheff isn't playing in October. If Sheff isn't playing in October, his future is in question and he loses money. If these deals help the team, they help Sheff (as long as he can still rake).

He'll be fine. I want him on this team as much as I want DJ and Mo. He's that scary.

2006-07-31 13:58:22
221.   BklynBmr
OT: Anyone wanna lay odds that tomorrow night's game will not air on Extra Innings — just because?
2006-07-31 13:58:50
222.   tommyl
217 With Wilson on the team, do we really need Green, Cairo and Phillips even before Cano comes back? That's three utility IFs and we have Pena at AAA anyways.
2006-07-31 13:59:01
223.   RichYF
Wow what a sweet way to double post. My apologies...
2006-07-31 13:59:01
224.   randym77
219 Arggh. That was supposed to be "our only backup CFer," of course.
2006-07-31 13:59:13
225.   Shaun P
Sorry for the double post. Like someone mentioned above, the Internet seems pretty screwed up today.
2006-07-31 13:59:45
226.   Ron Burgundy
Chris Russo just got completely (well, to use a net term) PWNED by Ca$hMoney.
2006-07-31 14:01:35
227.   tommyl
215 Thanks for the compliment. Maybe Chacon taught Cashman the Jedi mind trick or something.

Its also clear that the Nationals are being run by something lower than primates. Monkeys would have traded Soriano.

2006-07-31 14:02:44
228.   tommyl
226 pwned? What did he say about the trades?
2006-07-31 14:09:09
229.   Ron Burgundy
228 Well, he ripped the trades (and a bunch of other moves), Cashman called him unprofessional, and completely made him look like the bumbling idiot he is by using actual facts, as in stats. And he used OPS, which is always good. Russo sucks.
2006-07-31 14:11:45
230.   Ron Burgundy
228 Well, he ripped the trades (and a bunch of other moves), Cashman called him unprofessional, and completely made him look like the bumbling idiot he is by using actual facts, as in stats. And he used OPS, which is always good. Russo sucks.
2006-07-31 14:13:16
231.   Ron Burgundy
228 Well, he ripped the trades (and a bunch of other moves), Cashman called him unprofessional, and completely made him look like the bumbling idiot he is by using actual facts, as in stats. And he used OPS, which is always good. Russo sucks.
2006-07-31 14:15:22
232.   randym77
There's a fresh thread open, devoted to the Wilson-Chacon trade.
2006-07-31 14:15:42
233.   BklynBmr
Is there a rule when trade announcements have to be made, or could some teams be sitting on something for a bit. Not that it matters either way, but just curious...
2006-07-31 14:18:06
234.   tommyl
Cash actually said that? haha, too funny.
2006-07-31 14:18:28
235.   Bama Yankee
Anyone think that Cashman's ability to get a good deal for Abreu caused other GM's to think they could get the same kind of deal for Soriano and thus dropping his value to the point that a deal could not be reached?
2006-07-31 15:03:36
236.   RIYank
233 I know the BoSox didn't trade. Theo had a press conference to announce that they "came close".
2006-07-31 16:59:24
237.   pistolpete
OMG, someone HAS to get me audio of Cashman ripping Russo a new one - I want it as my computer's startup sound...
2006-07-31 21:27:31
238.   Yu-Hsing Chen
I think the lineup is not a huge priorty next year.. espically if they can resign Wilson.. getting Zito or some other good SP and righting the whole SP situation for short and long term is the best.
2006-08-01 05:19:31
239.   KJC
If the Red Sox had gotten Abreu for 4 no-name prospects, there'd be lots of "conspiracy" talk going on here. Instead, Cashman's a genius (for now).
2006-08-02 22:17:48
240.   NBarnes
Cashman's not a genius for this deal. This is a blantent shiv in the back of Philedelphia baseball fans, who just recently built the team a brand new stadium. Their reward is to have their star hitter tossed overboard for a bunch of second-rate prospects and relief pitchers in a blatent salary dump. The role of the Yankees has less to do with Cashman than with cash; the Yankees were probably offered the most (i.e. more than basically nothing) amongst the very limited number of teams willing to take on all of Abreu's contract, probably due to greater perceived need and deeper pockets.

The stranger thing is that Cashman gets the credit for Abreu but much less for the much more impressive trade that brought Criag Wilson to New York. Getting anything at all for the dessicated remains of Shawn Cachon is a good day's work; getting a real hitter and valuable piece like Wilson is excellent GMing.

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