Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
Oy Veh
2006-07-24 05:19
by Alex Belth

Boom, Bap, Thwap: Flat Yanks Tank, Spanked (and happy to be leaving Canada). Sunday's Final: 13-5. Meanwhile, two reports suggest that it is unlikey that Bobby Abreu will be a Yankee this time next week.

2006-07-24 05:50:10
1.   Dimelo
Once the Jays put a 10 spot on the Yanks, I muted the television and finished reading "Stepping Up". Good job, Alex.
2006-07-24 06:12:45
2.   tommyl
Wow, I finally just watched the ESPN nonsense people have been talking about. Steve Phillips is truly a @#$!@#. It is most disturbing when I agree with Kruk but he actually made valid points:

1. You don't get to be a two time MVP without some mental fortitude.

2. A-Rod will be ok.

3. (and most important) Who do the yankees trade for him? Who plays 3rd base? Who bats 4th?

I guess those are things Steve Phillips ignores. Wonder if that's why he's not a GM, but plays one on TV.

2006-07-24 06:22:37
3.   jedi

1. I agree

2. I agree

3. Aramis Ramirez -

2006-07-24 06:27:28
4.   Sliced Bread
Tyler Kepner writes what I was thinking while listening to the game yesterday.

The accounting firm of Ponson, Wilson, & Chacon ("Names You Can't Trust") had their pocket calculators working overtime, tallying up the runs, and I'm wondering, "Is Pavano watching this? No, he's probably face down on the massage table, getting his sore buttock worked on."

Oy vey.

2006-07-24 06:36:41
5.   rbj
Ya know, rather than trying to get a fifth starter, maybe the Yanks should just forfeit those games and take the days off. The rest could probably help some guys.

Steve Philips this year also advocated that the Tigers trade Zumaya to Atlanta for Smoltz. At that point I realized just how bad a GM he was, and I have to sympathize with Mets fans over what he did to that team.

2006-07-24 06:40:55
6.   murphy
zumaya is a ninja.
2006-07-24 06:41:22
7.   rsmith51
Actually those stories sound like the Yanks are trying to lower the price for Abreu. Don't know if it will work.
2006-07-24 06:54:45
8.   Max
7 I agree that there is some gamesmanship going on...prices for anybody remotely decent seem to be sky high. I think the Yankees are doing a little feint through the papers (possibly to throw off the Red Sox as well).

I'm glad I completely missed the game yesterday as well. Definitely our worst series in quite a while, and the ingredients were all there for this to happen the last 4 games-- blowing a well-pitched game, major lapses in offense from the stars and overachieving young ones, our two worst starters essentially throwing up stink bombs.

I'd panic if this were a trend, but let's hope the ship rights itself this week.

2006-07-24 06:54:45
9.   vockins
3 A. Ramirez and Jacque Jones for ARod would be a horror show. I'll take headcase ARod any day, thanks.

A. Ramirez and Zambrano for ARod - maybe.

2006-07-24 07:02:26
10.   ChrisS
Arod at his Texas-reduced price is a steal. No way do the Yanks trade him. He's fine.

What a horrible year, he's on pace for only 120 RBI.

2006-07-24 07:27:23
11.   Tarheel
Why do you think that Phillips is working at ESPN? I am sure that they pay less than most MLB teams do for a GM. It is because he is an idiot. Does anyone remember when he did those fake press conferences in the off season? What a joke. This guy is a joke and he has proceeded to ruin what used to be a pretty good show--BB Tonight. I used to really like the show, but now I have quit watching it.
2006-07-24 08:01:32
12.   pistolpete
The thing about Kruk: just last week he was condemning A-Rod to a Chuck Knoblauch-type existence - this week he's defending the guy?

Someone's gotta be off-camera orchestrating this whole mess - no way these 'analysts' can be THAT inconsistent and/or boneheaded on a day-to-day basis.

That said, the thought HAS crossed my mind that perhaps Alex is just one of those players who seems destined to play out his days on a non-contender, putting up MVP numbers all the while. If I'm Cashman, I only trade him for a frontline pitcher like Zambrano or prospects if I know my season's over. Which, by this July 31st, it most certainly is NOT.

2006-07-24 08:04:35
13.   Simone
I've come to the conclusion that this is primarily a media driven story. The absurd comments and trade proposals are all coming from the media and some wacky Yankee fans. A-Rod isn't the first Yankee player to be booed and he won't be the last. The Yankees are not going to trade A-Rod and he isn't going to ask for a trade so he will get himself together. I just hope that he straightens himself out in time to help the Yankees make the playoffs.

Phillips is a buffoon who couldn't succeed as a GM in New York or any where else. Even the ridiculous Jim Bowden was given another chance to screw up the Nationals.

2006-07-24 08:10:10
14.   Knuckles
I'd trade A-Rod for the right package in the offseason. And by the right package I mean A-Rod for Verlander, Zumaya, and Granderson, or Liriano, Baker, and Santana, or possibly Wright, Pelfrey, and Milledge.

We're looking at a full-season statline of roughly 37HR, 125RBI, 118R, 16SB, and an OPS at .900. Enough already.

2006-07-24 08:32:30
15.   unpopster
y'know...I don't advocate the booing of Arod, but at the same time I am very surprised at how supportive the majority of you are of him. I mean, c'mon can all throw out his projected final stats as much as you want, but if you've been watching him this whole season, it's hard to argue against the simple fact that Arod is hurting this team.

Whether this is a media driven story or not, how can most of you ignore that he has turned into a mental case in front of our eyes. Between his horrid defensive yips and constant failures with men on base, I can't help but wish that he was just gone, period.

And I don't buy the meme that it's all about the money. I don't care one bit about how many dollars he earns. When one looks at the mulit-million dollar deals being thrown around baseball, I don't care whether someone makes $24mm or $15mm a's all much more than I will ever see in my life. So what do I, or the average Yankee fan, care that he is making the most in the majors?

It all comes down to performance. And he is simply not performing to his talent, NOT to his contract.

So, I don't necessarily expect all of you to come here and spew venomous rhetoric towards Arod, but can you all honestly defend him and blame it all on the media and the boo-birds? Doesn't he deserve most of the blame for his play?

I'm so sick of this soap opera already. I either want him to snap out of it and carry this team on his shoulders for just 3 friggin' days or just say bye-bye and approve a trade anywhere else.

2006-07-24 08:36:35
16.   BayRidger
Call me cynical but I don't think Steve Phillips really believes what he's been saying about trading A-Rod. He goes on TV a few times a day, he has to say SOMETHING to fill up the time, and this trade A-Rod stuff gets him attention, it makes him stand out among the other talking heads. That said, he's still a d$*%*bag.
2006-07-24 08:43:27
17.   monkeypants
15 Holy internal contradictions, unpoptser. How can you say that we must throw out the projections and rely on what we see, then say that it's not about the money but "it all comes down to performance"? We measure performance by numbers, right (that's where the projections come in). And if we look at the performance, we see a player with a line of:

.277/.379/.499 (OPS .878, third on the team)

In what universe does this player hurt the team? From what perspective would any team not starting 9 Babe Ruths be better off without such such a player 'period'? They would be better just cutting him--you really believe that??

Ah, but then you change gears and say it's not his contract, it's that he is not playing up to his talent. So, does that mean that more talented players are held to a higher standard? Let's say that A-Rod is only playing to 75% of his talent--he's still more valuable than a Cairo or Bubba playing to 100% of their talent. Should the Yankees have gotten rid of Mickey Mantle because he didn't play up to his talent, squandering his God-given abilities on booze and broads?

The only way your argument holds up is that he is not playing up to the value of his contract--that is a plausible line of reasoning-0-but that brings us back to the contract, which you want to avoid.

Come on man, you can do better than that.

2006-07-24 08:46:57
18.   Shaun P
4 Well said, Sliced!

Yankee trades Steve Phillips would have advocated if he were alive in:

1925: "Babe Ruth has just been horrible this year, when he's actually been healthy, and he is 30. I think its clear that the Babe loves partying too much and can't keep himself in shape. CLEARLY NYC has gotten to him, and the Yanks should trade him while he still has value left."

1946: "Joe DiMaggio looks like an old 30, coming back from the war. The Clipped Yankee set career lows in batting average - his first time under .300! - doubles, and RBI - his first time under 100! Clearly he's not the same player he was before the war, and the Yankees should trade him."

1959: "Mickey Mantle is in trouble. The Mick, though only 27, hit under .300, managed only 31 home runs, and set a new career high in strikeouts. And the Yankees didn't play in the World Series for only the second time since 1948, losing the pennant to the go-go-White Sox. Power is on the way out, and steals are in - and NYC has CLEARLY gotten to Mantle. The Yanks should trade him while they can."

Now, given that A-Rod completely spurned the Mets and Steve Phillips when he was a free agent, and directly contradicted what Phillips said about him, and generally made Phillips look like a total moron, there couldn't possibly be any ulterior reason why Phillips is saying what he's saying about A-Rod, now could there?

2006-07-24 08:56:54
19.   Shaun P
15 "I either want him to snap out of it and carry this team on his shoulders for just 3 friggin' days or just say bye-bye and approve a trade anywhere else."

I'm pretty sure A-Rod has done that, twice, since the booing started - for 3 games against the Braves, and 3 against the Mets:

Of course that didn't stop the booing at all.

To me, its easy to defend A-Rod and say the Yanks should hold on to him. Why? There are ZERO instances in baseball history of trading an inner-circle Hall of Famer in the middle of his career and getting equal value in return. It NEVER works out. For the Yanks to trade A-Rod now, given how little (comparatively speaking) they have to pay him, and given that he's still only 30!!!, would be suicidal.

2006-07-24 09:02:56
20.   Schteeve
if you truly believe that the Yankees would be better off trading A-Rod for Aramis Ramirez, please contact me as I have a great piece of real estate in New Orleans that I'd like to sell you.
2006-07-24 09:08:05
21.   JohnnyC
18 There you have it, Shaun. Phillips, a notable ass clown, has an axe to grind in this whole mess. Hard for me to believe but maybe Bobby V wasn't the a-hole in that manager/GM dynamic after all.
2006-07-24 09:23:24
22.   Shawn Clap
I think what Phillips & Renyolds were trying to say is that the Yanks need to trade Arod before he goes all Donnie Moore on us! We probably won't be able to get much for him after that.
2006-07-24 09:26:45
23.   BklynBmr
Time out! The fact we're even discussing who we would and wouldn't trade A-Rod for says Phillips is onto something. Resist. Ignore. Send hate mail to BBT. Anything but validate this trash.
2006-07-24 09:28:44
24.   Bama Yankee
18 Good job Shaun P.
If Phillips were alive in 1981 (wait, he was... oh well anyway): "It's time to open the gate of the Bronx Zoo. Reggie must go. I mean the guy only hit one homer in the World Series, it's time to cut him loose. His act has worn thin with The Boss and since his contract is up, it's time to make a change in the Yankee OF. After all Ken Griffey is available and I don't think Reggie has what it takes to lead a team to the postseason anymore."
2006-07-24 09:33:06
25.   tocho
Overstating the obvious here but, I guess we'll know what kind of real chance the yanks have in the east at the end of these 2 series (yanks face texas and TB and bosox face Oakland and LAA).

The pitching match-ups for the first 4 games of these series favor the yanks and go against the bosox (except for the schilling start).

we could/should be looking at 1 game behind, or tied or one game ahead after these 2 series (end of July). August is extremely equal for both teams.

the yannks' ofense is very hurt without Sheff and Mats, but the bosox' pitching is in shambles with only 2 real starters. it seems that they will continue the same through August if there are no big trades come the july 31 deadline.

2006-07-24 10:06:08
26.   YankeeInMichigan
5 Zumaya for Smoltz = Smoltz for Alexander. Nice symettry but disastrous for Motown.
2006-07-24 10:50:14
27.   Ron Burgundy
Why didn't we sign these two guys in the offseason?
Mike Piazza:
Frank Thomas:

Imagine Piazza over Stinnett and Thomas over, well, I dunno Nick Green or Miguel Cairo. And then have Thompson replace Bubba. Now THAT would be a nice bench.

2006-07-24 11:15:54
28.   yankaholic
Just by the player's demeanor, Joe Torre thinks Bernie Williams wants to return in 2007 for a 17th season with the Yankees.

-- Newark Star-Ledger

2006-07-24 11:23:49
29.   Shaun P
28 Filling the RGMHT* role:

dasfwer Bernie afjlfpwe retire fuytmnbqw vcxbrwfs adsfwrejdf please rwebfaure zxvcwefa

*Rob Gee Memorial Head Trauma

2006-07-24 11:24:24
30.   JohnnyC
Why not? He's going to get 500 ABs this season at well below replacement level performance. How many other teams would tolerate that, much less celebrate it? I love Bernie but, sheeshh.
2006-07-24 12:24:48
31.   rbj
A couple of sentences from Peter Abraham over at :
"Meanwhile, word is that the Joe Torre fave T.J. Beam has arrived on the scene. I would suspect that means the demise of Kris Wilson."

A bit of positive news, now only if Smith was back up.

2006-07-24 12:35:09
32.   yankz
I posted this a couple days ago, but it was around 3 AM, so I don't think anyone read it: Do you stats guys agree that the idea that Ortiz/Manny approach Ruth/Gehrig is blasphemy?

Using only EqA adjusted for all time, it's not even close:
Gehrig: .346, Ruth: .367, Ortiz: .304, Manny: .330

2006-07-24 12:37:53
33.   Shaun P
31 Even better 'cause it means that Torre likes Beam despite his bad ERA!

Anyone else scoff when Michael Kay mentioned Aaron Small yesterday? I'd love to see Smith come up in Chacon's place to take Villone's role, and Villone become the long-man. Then, Villone could be the 5th starter if/when Dotel ever arrives.

2006-07-24 12:51:12
34.   RIYank
32 Well, sure, but you haven't included the clutch factor. Don't forget how clutch Manny and Papi are.
2006-07-24 12:59:42
35.   Chyll Will
32,34 Yep, right when Manny Ortiz ripped through three or four WS in a row, that was clutch.
2006-07-24 13:06:34
36.   Zavo
Over at Peter also mentions that he thinks Soriano was traded to the White Sox. He didn't have any more details than that, but if that is true, the White Sox potent offense just got even tougher.
2006-07-24 13:10:05
37.   yankaholic
36 or clutch rallies and sac flies that WS are known for... have been turned into "homer happy" rally stranding clogger..
2006-07-24 13:10:55
38.   yankaholic
2006-07-24 13:12:29
39.   Bama Yankee
32 Until Ortiz starts playing some games at 1B (how about 2130 straight) and Manny proves he can also pitch at the major league level (how about winning 94 games), then the only way they can "approach" Ruth/Gehrig is by taking a stroll through monument park...
2006-07-24 13:17:22
40.   unpopster
36 is reporting that the ChiSox are "extremely close" to a Soriano deal
2006-07-24 13:48:58
41.   JL25and3
At least then the Yankees wouldn't get him. I have no interest in seeing Sori in pinstripes again; been there, done that.
2006-07-24 14:09:14
42.   SF Yanks
"Phillies flat out deny Yankess offer for Abreu" ESPN News.
2006-07-24 14:43:32
43.   rbj
39 Amen, Bama Yankee.

BTW, isn't "Bama Yankee" a contradiction?

2006-07-24 15:40:06
44.   Bama Yankee
43 I guess "Bama Yankee" is like Military Intelligence, Jumbo Shrimp, Advanced BASIC, Small Crowd and Plastic Glasses...

I've been a Yankee fan since back in the 70's. When I was a kid growing up in Alabama, the Braves were our closest team and they were terrible. So I started pulling for the Yankees (Reggie & Thurman), the Cowboys (Staubach & Dorsett) and the Sixers (Dr. J). I have stayed with the Yankees (even through the bad times during the 80's) and now watch them every chance I can on Extra Innings or MLB.TV. But I have really had more fun this year since I found this site. I really enjoy BB and all the interesting people you "meet" on here. It's especially entertaining to follow the Banter duing a Yankee game. I guess it's as close as a guy in Alabama can get to watching a game at Yankee Stadium (although I plan to try to make it up to a game sometime before they tear down the Stadium).

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