Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
I Said, "Half-Full"
2006-07-13 05:57
by Alex Belth

Here's the New York Times' second half-preview for our Bronx Bombers. And, following-up on something that Cliff mentioned in the comments section earlier this week, a human interest piece by Anthony McCarron about Johnny Damon overcoming his stuttering problem.

Comments (99)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-07-13 07:00:13
1.   ChrisS
From the Times: "The Yankees have had some blowout victories in their absence. But more often, they have struggled to score. Unless they make a trade or see improvement from their young players, the Yankees need hitting."

Nope, pitching wins championships. They have plenty of sticks just with Arod, Jeter, Damon, Posada, and Giambi. Abreu would be a nice addition, but only if it's not at the expense of getting a solid pitcher.

2006-07-13 07:35:07
2.   Dimelo
Didn't Bill James proves that the statement "Pitching wins championships" is only right about 50% of the times?

Look at the 2002 Yanks. They were definitely the better pitching staff.

2006-07-13 07:58:59
3.   markp
Actually, 50% is scoring and the other 50% is stopping the other guys from scoring. So pitching is 50% minus whatever % defense gets.
2006-07-13 08:07:30
4.   pistolpete
2 Was it really, though? Some could make the argument that LA's bullpen in '02 was far superior...
2006-07-13 08:14:17
5.   Javi Javi
A Ferrary F430 Spider as a gift? I want Damon's life.
2006-07-13 08:16:33
6.   singledd
SG at RLYW has a statistical post detailing the degree to which we have been hurt by playing GOB and Melky (Melkdud)... not to mention having Bernie's D in RF. Torre recently stated that a bat might be more needed then a pitcher. Steve Goldman has, since the beginning of the non-ShefSui era, been driving home how important it was to try and replace some of ShefSui's production.

Numerous articles have been written about how the demand for pitching throughout MLB far outstrips the supply.... especially with 20 teams 6 games or less out of the running... many of whom need pitching themselves. Evenone knows how little we have to give compared to other teams, and that money is our only bargaining chip.

Many knew in the offseason that it was important to re-sign Matsui... and it wasn't for his defense. Yet now we are without Matsui AND Shef, and some people think we can simply ignor that.

We started out 1st in RS in the AL. We were second for quite a while. We are now 4th... and Toronto is just behind us.

We are 4th in ERA and 3rd in BAA. Boston is 8th in ERA. With a little luck, we will soon have Dotel, which will be like a great midseason trade for pitching.

From the start of the season, we knew our pitching was a question. But we knew our bats would blast us into the PS. Our (overall) pitching has been a pleasant surprise. But our offense now has some serious, serious holes.

Damon and Posada could both go down. No one would be surprised. We have no bench at all. There is nobody that can pinch hit.

Cliff and Alex: I wish you guys would dedicate a post to this. We need your opinions, stats and a forum to discuss this in detail, and maybe put it to bed (although I believe Cashman will be doing that soon).

2006-07-13 08:28:31
7.   Dimelo
4 Their bullpen was better, but their starting rotation didn't compare to ours: Petitte, Clemens, Mussina and Wells. That's pretty good.

I also think the Astros rotation was better than the White Sox rotation. Oswalt, Pettite, Clemens and Backe I thought was better than Contreras, Bueherle, Garland and Garcia.

Maybe it's a toss-up.

2006-07-13 08:35:49
8.   Maz
With Rueben Sierra recently released by the Twins, it's only a matter of time before the Yanks restart his engine. Start your GOR (Good Old Rueben) threads now.
2006-07-13 09:07:19
9.   bloodyank78
6 I've been waiting for someone to say something as intelligent as that. Does the camp that is screaming for pitching just ignore that the corner outfielders that are on the DL drove in a combined 239 runs last season for the club? I'm ever the optomist; and I believe that for the second half this team is going to have a very solid 1-3, w/Wright being a stable #4. The pitching the club already has can keep them in ballgames, but not w/the likes of Bubba, Melky, GOB, or Guiel in the line-up, no way. A solid run producer w/great plate discipline inserted into this line-up will work wonders. So you figure the baseball gods smile on the Yanks and we land Abreu w/out giving up Hughes. You now have in RF; a high OBP guy, a guy that can go yard and drive in some runs, and as a great plus, a guy w/a hose who runners will not challenge like they do Bernie on a regular basis. I know how important pitching is, but I truly believe the Yanks will have strong pitching this second half. Now if by some reason a deal occurred that involoved Lieber and Abreu I would dance a jig. Sorry for the long rant fellow Banterers, but Singledd was so right on that he got me pumped to give my 2 cents in agreement.
2006-07-13 09:32:46
10.   unpopster
6, 9 gotta completely agree with both of you as I've been making this case for a few weeks now -- we NEED another productive bat in the lineup.

Besides the obvious need for more offensive power, that additional bat would lengthen the lineup, thus taking a little more pressure off of the shoulders of Arod and Giambi and, probably most importantly, save the arms of our starters and bullpen.

What better way to lessen the load on guys like Farnsworth, Every-Day Proctor, and Villone than some more 9-run blowouts by our offense.

Anothert bat will help our pitchers just as much as it would help the offense score runs.

Cashman, are you listening?

2006-07-13 09:40:19
11.   Shaun P
8 Something tells me that Big Rube won't be back. At least he better not be!

Re: getting a bat vs getting a pitcher. I'll grant that availability of decent pitching is pretty slim right now, but has anyone really considered the availablility of decent hitters?

Off the top of my head, here are the teams that are out of it and might want to trade a bat:


11 teams. 2 in the AL East and not likely to make an intra-division trade, leaves 9. The Marlins aren't likely to trade any of the useful bats they have; 8. KC and the Cubs have no useful hitters to trade, as discussed here before; 6.

Of those 6 teams left (Seattle, Indians, Nats, Phils, Braves, Pirates), here's the bats that might be available who might be worth getting:

Ibanez, Soriano, Abreu, Burrell, Dellucci, Andruw Jones, Craig Wilson

We know the asking price for Soriano will be too high (ie, Hughes). We can presume the same is true for Andruw, and Abreu and Burrell UNLESS the Phils treat them as salary dumps. Ibanez, Dellucci, and Wilson can likely be had on the cheap. Wilson is likely to be useful, but I'm less sure of Dellucci (we've seen him before) and Ibanez (age: 34; under contract for 2 more years).

DISCLAIMER: List is not exhaustive and your intrepretation of "worth getting" might differ from mine.

That said, who's this bat the Yanks are going to get/should get, and just what are they giving up to get him? 'Cause I see pretty slim pickins out there.

2006-07-13 10:04:19
12.   singledd
11 Sori is a free-agent next year. If he isn't traded, he is worth (one or is it 2) draft picks. No money, no players for now.. just draft picks.

I agree, we can't get just anyone we want. We won't let Hughes go, unless it's for a Zito or Willis type. We need to target guys who are
1) Free agents to be
2) Salary dumps

We also have some mid-level talent. 2 to 3 years away. We might be able to gangle them to a team thats cooked now, but building for the future (TB... Braves... who else)

It ain't a huge field, but we only need one.
And while I believe an impact pitcher will be impossible to get (except in trade for Hughes), we can get a #5 guy for lesser minor league talent. As I said, if we simply had a league average guy instead of Chacon, we would probably be tied with Boston now.

We need an AVERAGE pitcher for the #5 slot, but one who can eat innings, and maybe be long relief, if by miracle, Good Chacon/Pavano/Farm help appears.

Again... the dabate should not be what do we need more.. good pitching or an impact bat.

It should be: What is the greatest value deal we can do given the circumstances of what we have to give and what we can realistically get.

By the way...CLIFF and ALEX. Post Topic:
If Bonds (is not in jail and) plays next year, it will be an as AL DH. In that capacity, he may well break Aaron's record.
Will he be wearing a Yankee hat at that time?

2006-07-13 10:11:37
13.   singledd
P.S. To quote possibly the most heady, intellectual guy in the baseball realm:

"Good pitching beats good hitting everytime.
And visa-versa"

2006-07-13 10:13:29
14.   Shaun P
12 I'm sure Sori will be a type "A" free agent, which would give the Nats 2 draft picks - unless they resign him themselves.

That said, the Nats can use all the help they can get in terms of building up their farm system, so I think Sori's price will be high. Especially with Jim Bowden and a new ownership group that needs to sell the team involved.

2006-07-13 10:15:33
15.   Sliced Bread
Lieber... Lie-ber... Lie-ber!

By no means an e-ticket to October, Cashman's old friend Jon Lieber should be obtainable from the Phillies without depleting the farm if the Phillies are, indeed, sellers.

Lieber's a Bronx-proven innings-eater, which the Yanks are definitley going to need during the long, hot August (Tor, ChiSox, Red Sox, Tigers).

It'll be fantatic if Dotel meets expectations, but how much should we expect off the bat from a Tommy John patient?

Yanks need a #4 starter every bit as much as they need a #5 (Abreu?) hitter. Lieber, he of the pedestrian first half, would cost considerably less in $ and prospects, and would reverse one of Cashman's recent regrets.

I think the Phillies will demand Duncan for Abreu.

The NJ Star-Ledger has a great write up on Duncan today. Might want to read it before he's a Phillie.

2006-07-13 10:47:49
16.   singledd
Here are some 'average' type pitchers who might be available as a salary dump type guys. DISCLAIMER:
I am NOT making recommendations
I am NOT saying they are available
I am NOT saying anything other they quoting some stats from guys on (probably) non-contending teams, who MIGHT be available with a creative Cashman.

ERA $mil Player
4.31 8.30 Kris Benson (Orioles)
4.85 3.75 Rodrigo Lopez (Orioles)
5.13 2.00 Cassey Fosum (TB)
3.76 3.00 Guillermo Mota (Indians)
4.37 4.25 Jake Westbook (Indians)
4.23 7.00 Paul Byrd (Indians)
4.50 4.15 Kip Wells (Pirates)
4.89* 9.00 Gregg Maddux (Cubs)
* this years ERA - Lifetime Stud

Also, Jay Gibbons makes $4.2 for the Orioles, with a Lifetime OPS of .783.

Really, wouldn't you like to see Anna Benson in a Yankee uniform? Maybe she will threaten to fuck every Yankee if Kris is a bad boy. That whould be worth 3 wins!


2006-07-13 10:48:44
17.   singledd
I should say some are better then average, depending on age and viewpoint.
2006-07-13 10:49:25
18.   JL25and3
Duncan for Abreu? I'd do that in a heartbeat. Frankly, .250 BA/.464 SA/5 HR in 31 games doesn't sound like such an impressive rebound.

In their last 20 games, the Yankees have scored 3 runs or fewer 10 times. That's not going to win many games, which is why I think they need a hitter more than a pitcher. They've actually got four starters pitching well right now, even if one of them doesn't pitch well for very long.

2006-07-13 10:49:30
19.   singledd
Actually, looking at the list, some are way better then average.
2006-07-13 10:50:44
20.   JL25and3
16 Anna Benson and Michelle Damon, together? That would be quite a sight...
2006-07-13 10:59:56
21.   Sliced Bread
Cory Lidle's another innings-eating, league-average-ish pitcher (5-7 4.95) the Phillies might dump. $3.3 million.

I like Anna Benson bringing the off-speed stuff out of the bullpen. Pinch runner, too. Who would stop her?

2006-07-13 11:00:02
22.   singledd
18 A very god point. The Yankees RS stats are very skewed because they score in the double digits a lot.

For example, out first series with Oakland.

W 15-2... L 4-3... L 9-4
RS = 22 = 7.33/game... RA = 15 = 5.00/game

Looks good in the stats, but we lost 2 of 3.
Yes, I 'picked thru' to find this example, but I just wanted to demonstrate that purely looking a RS for a team with a lot of blowouts, distorts the picture some.

2006-07-13 11:52:19
23.   DarrenF
18 The Yankees keep sliding in the offensive rankings and keep losing one-run games that "shoulda" been victories.

Batters are easier to find, cheaper, and play every day. The observation that the Yankee offense is still above average w/o Sheffield & Matsui is seldom countered with the observation that the Yankee pitching is similarly above average without Pavano.

Is that the Yankee goal? Above average? Because they already are.

Without a solid bat added to the lineup, I'd guess they win about 88 games and fight Toronto for second place. Which is also above average.

Neither a pitcher nor a batter is going to guarantee a WS title. Given the current state of the team, I'd definitely prefer a bat.

2006-07-13 13:17:59
24.   unpopster
The Washington Nationals have just acquired SS Felipe Lopez, OF Austin Kearns and RHP Ryan Wagner from the Reds for RHP Gary Majewski, LHP Bill Bray, SS Royce Clayton, INF Brendan Harris and RHP Daryl Thompson.

At first glance, this means that the Nats have the Wild Card in their plans and Soriano aint going anywhere. That means a Yankee-reunion in July '06 is out of the questions.

That's one less bat available for Cashman.

2006-07-13 13:43:23
25.   domvjr
Just heard on the FAN, that the Yanks are possibly signing Sydney Ponson. I hope & pray, that he never sees a Yankee uni. He is a stiff!
2006-07-13 13:45:36
26.   randym77
WFAN says the Yanks are signing Ponson.
2006-07-13 13:46:16
27.   Shaun P
24 I'm not sure it means the Nats are gunning for the Wild Card, as they are 9 games back in that race. Might it mean that the Nats have a deal for Soriano in the works, with Kearns set to take over for Sori in LF?

Too bad the Yanks couldn't have traded for Kearns. I'd be surprised if Bowden moves him - he's one of Bowden's guys.

2006-07-13 13:51:33
28.   unpopster
27 The Reds are in the thick of the NL Central and desperately needed impact relief help. The Yanks didn't have that and therefore Kearns wasn't even an option.

Guys, say what you will about Ponson, but he is definitely an upgrade over Chacon. Signing him doesn't mean he's their final answer for the starting staff, just a placeholder. And, it might make Chacon expendable to be traded along with some minor leaguers for an OF or more starting help.

2006-07-13 13:51:41
29.   randym77
6 That was very interesting stuff.

But what I took from it was that we don't need to get an ace or a big bat. Chacon and Bernie, and to a lesser extent, MelkDud, are so bad that replacing them with average players might be all we need.

2006-07-13 13:52:21
30.   Shaun P
26 Allow me to take on the Rob Gee memorial head trauma role for Sidney Ponson:

tredrsf ytwrq dasctkl Ponson rkwlrew vbsbasn ajdffjdsl fat useless ljfsafd rwouwene eqwfadsm

2006-07-13 13:54:05
31.   Simone
Ponson?! Just saw it on ESPN. Desperate times and all that ... Maybe he can give a few decent starts.
2006-07-13 13:57:04
32.   domvjr
Ponson and decent starts, "do not compute".
2006-07-13 13:57:53
33.   tommyl
Nothing like a K/BB of 1.14, 7 HR (already!) and a .385 OBP against. Yikes, those are bad peripherals. Is he really better than starting Mendoza?
2006-07-13 14:00:47
34.   tommyl
Oh, and a 1.62 WHIP, which I guess is better than Chacon's but that's sort of like saying horse crap smells better than dog crap.
2006-07-13 14:04:19
35.   Shaun P
28 "Ponson . . . is definitely an upgrade over Chacon."

unpopster, are you sure about that? Their numbers looks awfully similar, except for ERA (Sidney's isn't as bad as Shawn's), which could possibly be attributed to the differences between leagues.

Both homer-prone, both walk-happy, both with poor K rates - I don't think I'd call this an upgrade.

2006-07-13 14:06:11
36.   tommyl
35 I couldn't find it, but do you know what Ponsons BABIP is right now? Curious if he's about where he should be luck wise or if he's do for a downturn.

That said, I hate him, its visceral. I hated him last year when he was on the Orioles. If he wins some games for us that's fine, but I can't see myself rooting for the guy.

2006-07-13 14:09:30
37.   randym77
The fact that Ponson was DFA'd to make room for Jeff Weaver doesn't inspire me with confidence.
2006-07-13 14:19:27
38.   standuptriple
37 You hit the nail on the head. If Ponson<Weaver what are we getting in to? I remember the Ponson Experience in SF, but that was 3 years ago. And in the NL. And against the NL West.
2006-07-13 14:22:59
39.   unpopster
35, 37 keep in mind that if Ponson also has a few decent starts for the Yanks in the next few weeks, it gives Cashman the luxury of negotiating with another GM for a starting pitcher without being in the unenviable position of being desperate.

It's all perception. With Chacon or any other joker as the #5 starter, other GM's know they have Cashman over the proverbial barrel. However with Ponson in the rotation, maybe Cashman can actually negotiate from a position of strength.

2006-07-13 14:26:52
40.   Shaun P
39 I agree on the perception part - but that's one a heck of a big IF in your first sentence.

And, to be honest, I prefer another bat to another SP. I think they could promote Mendoza, or Steven White, and do just fine out of the 5-hole. Or let Rasner have it whenever he comes back from whatever it is that's bothering him.

I suppose IF Ponson pitches well and then maybe IF Cash can deal him for a bat . . . but if that's not major wishcasting, I don't know what is.

2006-07-13 14:35:08
41.   randym77
40 Rasner was more seriously injured than they realized. He may be out for the season. And the Yanks say Mendoza's still not pitching at a major league leavel.

But why not give White a shot?

2006-07-13 14:36:37
42.   MattinglyHOF
If you put Anna Benson with Damons wife ARods wife Jorges wife and whoever Derek is banging on any particular week you could put the porn awards show to shame
2006-07-13 14:39:49
43.   standuptriple
42 Easy there. Have you been to one of those shows?
2006-07-13 14:58:21
44.   Bama Yankee
I'd rather them pull Al Leiter out of the booth (or Jim Kaat for that matter) than sign Sidney Ponson. It's a bad sign when the starting pitcher you just signed is known more for DUI than his ERA (especially when the numbers for both are high and will probably only go higher). Has anyone checked to see what Sir Sidney was doing on the night that Natalee Holloway went missing in Aruba (uncalled for, I know, but I really can't stand that guy).
2006-07-13 15:07:39
45.   singledd
Can anyone tell me what Poison Ponson cost us? A bag of balls maybe? It seems like last years 'Small' deal. Nothing to lose, so why not. Change of scenery, Yankee ghosts.. who knows. If he IS Son of Chacon, he wont last. A bus ticket won't set us back much...

And it does make it look like me don't need an ace that much.

Kearns, Huff... some decent meat going by the boards.

2006-07-13 15:09:30
46.   singledd
44 I do agree on points. Ponson has all the charm of H. Hirabu, but none of the culture.
2006-07-13 15:11:26
47.   singledd
"Ponson, 4-4 with a 5.24 ERA in 14 appearances with St. Louis this season, lost his spot in the rotation when the Cardinals signed Jeff Weaver. Since Ponson cleared waivers Wednesday, the Yankees will be responsible for the pro-rated portion of the minimum salary for the rest of this season. St. Louis will pay the rest of Ponson's $1 million salary."

A bag of balls it is.

2006-07-13 15:12:52
48.   Shaun P
41 Or Jorge DePaula for that matter?

Thanks for the info on Rasner, randym - I had no idea his injury was that bad.

2006-07-13 15:15:20
49.   Bama Yankee
46 Good call, Ponson is the "Aruban Hirabu" with extra fat and extra puss.

45 He probably signed for a two six-packs of Bud Lite and a get-out-of-jail-free-card...

2006-07-13 15:26:54
50.   randym77
I wonder what the roster move will be?
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-07-13 15:29:09
51.   tommyl
Ok, for that price, I'm ok with the move. Is he going straight to the big club or AAA?
2006-07-13 15:37:03
52.   Bama Yankee
51 Shouldn't Ponson start out in AA (get it A-A). OK, OK I'll give it a rest. I may not like the guy, but hey Cashman forgot to call me before he made the deal so I guess I'll just have to live with it...
2006-07-13 15:53:46
53.   unpopster
As singledd has pointed out, they got Ponson for a bag of balls. It's a pitching acquisition whithout giving up a single commodity that might be better used for another (read: "much better") starter or an OF bat. What's there not to like about this pick-up?

If Ponson fails then he can't do much worse than Chacon has done lately. If he succeeds big time then "Hello Aaron Small Version 2.0". And if he is just plain mediocre, then he's still better than Chacon.

Again, it's the very definition of a no-risk gamble.

I still think Cashman has his eyes on another starting pitcher and an OF bat. I smell David Delluci!

2006-07-13 16:01:23
54.   singledd
49 Speaking of unlikeable guys, to be honest, for me, the poster boy for unlikeable, is OUR one and only.....
Randy Johnson.

Who has no respect for and doesn't like the Yankees or their great tradition. Who is mean, nasty, rude and ugly to boot. Who, if not for Big Stein, might still be every-so-handsome in his mullet... who is a multimillion, but a whore for Yankee money that pays him well beyond his usefulness... who has such as ego that at 42, he has yet to see his demise and develope another pitch and make adjustments that might prolong his usefulness... who can't even get along with Posada, who as much as any Yankee, has made this team what it is.

Yup... RJ is a real bastard...
but if he wins for us...
I like him
(because I'm just a whore too.. for Yankee wins, that is).

2006-07-13 16:03:58
55.   Stormer Sports
I don't hate the move to aquire Ponson. 53 We did get him for the price of a rookie.

As much as I hate to agree with ESPN. I just don't see us picking up a significant bat or front line pitcher.

I think Cashman was a fool to say "the Yanks aren't a post-season team" to the press. That may or may not be true, but the players and fans don't need to hear that fron the front office.

That being said, I rather like this "underdog" status the Yankees seem to have takin on in the press. This or that outlet preaching that we aren't making the PS.

Living in LA now and having lived through the 2003 Laker season, it's not always a good thing to be "expected" to win, as the Tankees were last year.

I thought the Yankees might get Soriano, but their deal today certanly muddies the waters. I know he wants to come back, and you would think he would welcome a multi-year deal following the season. Especially given Sheff's likely departure. Let's hope he is voicing this want to the Nationals front office.

I still think we will plug a hole here or there with mediocre talent and that's it. If we can just hang in within 4 or 5 games of Boston leading up to Sheff and Mats return, I like our chances.

2006-07-13 16:04:56
56.   Bama Yankee
53 You're right. He has a better track record than Chacon had when we picked him up last year. It could work out and lets hope that it does...

Speaking of no-risk gambles and your idea that Cashman has his eyes on another starting pitcher and OF bat, maybe we can kill two birds with one stone: I smell Jose Canseco (or did someone just pass gas in my office???)

BTW, Just in case Cashman is reading this and gets any ideas, I'm just kidding about Canseco (although he could settle the arguments about whether we need a pitcher or an OF since he claims to be able to do both).

2006-07-13 16:10:58
57.   Stormer Sports
Boston vs. Oakland about to get underway. We also have to remember that Boston has remained relatively healthy and we are only 3 back. Their health by no means is a lock to continue.

Also,is it completely unthinkable to call up Hughes for a start or 2?

Manny's knee looks fine. What a piece of work he is.

2006-07-13 16:11:11
58.   SF Yanks
Lets go A's!!!
2006-07-13 16:12:32
59.   Stormer Sports

Especially given our schedule coming out of the break, ugh!

2006-07-13 16:13:59
60.   Stormer Sports
Can we offer Minnesota a couple open-ocean tankers and a cruise ship for Liriano?
2006-07-13 16:28:46
61.   Javi Javi
Did a wikipedia search on our new pitcher, came up with a very random fact:

"After the 2003 season, he(Ponson) was made a knight by Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands. (Aruba is a colony of the Netherlands.) This has earned him the nickname "Sir Sidney.""

Mazzili must know something about Ponson, and I am sure Cashman at least discussed him with Maz. Who knows, maybe it works out??

2006-07-13 16:29:46
62.   randym77
I don't think we'll see Hughes. They are being very, very careful with him.

Besides, I don't think he's ready. He really got lit up in the Futures game. Maybe it was just nerves...but he's going to be even more nervous in the Bronx.

2006-07-13 16:51:12
63.   singledd
55 "I think Cashman was a fool to say "the Yanks aren't a post-season team" to the press."
Stormer: Man-of-Cash is nobody's fool. He does not say ANYTHING in public without understanding, and wanting the consequences.

Did anybody think, late in the off-season, that Damon would be our CF'er? This blog was full of 'what Bubba might do' comments. Cash even had us fooled.

How about ARod? After Boston's failure, this was one of the great moves of all time.

Man-of-Cash is stupid like a fox!!

2006-07-13 17:23:22
64.   Stormer Sports

Well, we'll just have to see about that.

HR Lowell.

That should be all the Sox need aganist the sorry A's. Just give us Zito Beane, you guys are going nowhere!

2006-07-13 17:25:32
65.   Stormer Sports

Also re: Arod. That wasn't a move that took a brain surgeon. Boston for some reason thought that Texas would trade Manny for Arod, basically staight up, saving Texas almost no money. Boston blew that deal and the Yankees were the only team willing to take on the contract. He did nothing majical.

2006-07-13 17:37:39
66.   Marcus
65 Forgive me if I'm forgetting the details of the non-deal and subsequent deal, but wasn't the sticking point that Boston wanted to save money by having A-Rod restructure his contract? Weren't the Rangers paying the same amount in both the proposed Boston deal and the Yankees deal?

And remember the Yankees are only paying about $16M a year of A-Rod's actual $25M (average annual) pay check, so although they may have been the only team to swallow that kind of deal, Steinbrenner still is paying A-Rod less than Jeter, so Cashman did something right.

2006-07-13 17:41:58
67.   Stormer Sports

That may have been what Boston used as their excuse. The reality was they weren't willing to part with enough cash to make the deal pallatable for Texas. Boston knew, as does everyone who follows contract negotiations and the Players Association, there was no way in hell the MLBPA was going to allow that deal to be restructured, no matter what Arod or Boston wanted. That was just more Loria face-saving.

2006-07-13 17:44:25
68.   Stormer Sports

I'm not saying it wasn't a good deal, all I am saying is that it wasn't rocket science, and attributable more to Boston bumbling than Cash creativity.

2006-07-13 18:13:17
69.   Simone
Watching this Red Sox/As game really irks me. It shows how the Yankees just squandered games by losing to the As.

Stormer Sports, actually you are wrong. Cashman was praised throughout baseball for the stealth that he used to pull off that deal. Everyone was convinced that Boston would still pull off the deal for Rodriguez by Spring training when the Yankees came out of nowhere and got him. You can't take away Cashman's credit for one of the best deals in baseball.

2006-07-13 18:21:29
70.   Stormer Sports

Tell me about it. Boston just does what they are supposed to do, beat the middle of the road and poor teams, while slapping around the NL. The Yankees can be forgiven for splitting, or even losing series to top AL squads, but blowing games to the lower tier is what will keep us out of the playoffs.

Also, I didn't buy it then and I don't buy it now. Sure, the negotiations weren't out in the open, but I sure as heck thought then that Boston was being unreasonable, and that the Yankees would figure something out. Manny for Arod straight up with little cash, seriously, come on. It took a little creatitivity to get it done, but Boston made that all possible by asking for things they knew they couldn't get from the MLBPA and not offering Texas the salary dump they were looking for. There were maybe 1 or 2 teams out there willing to take on even the 16 mil. that we did. I stick to my guns on this one.

Being praised throughout baseball and by baseball writers isn't exactly winning the nobel prize. They aren't the greatest minds.

2006-07-13 18:35:08
71.   vockins
70 Did you think ARod would play third? If so, kudos.
2006-07-13 18:45:58
72.   mehmattski
So, does anyone think that the Yankees could have gotten Felipe Lopez, Austin Kearns, and Ryan Wagner for Miguel Cairo, Jorge De Paula, and Scott Proctor? Cause that's basically what the Nationals had to give up to get two of the top 50 bats in the NL. Does Cashman even own a phone? That's two deals in two days I'm baffled by, in regards to why the Yankees couldn't get in on that.
2006-07-13 18:47:03
73.   Stormer Sports

Sarcasm is my friend. Very funny. I'm not Kreskin for crying out loud.

Hey, did the Oakland Athletics-- a team, sitting in an area holding two of the most populous and wealthy counties in the United States--just score a couple runs? If Billy Beane can convince writers and fans that they are in a small market, they might just be able to win this game after all.

2006-07-13 18:52:31
74.   Stormer Sports
I'll take the A's bullpen from the 7th on. Now if they could just score 1 more run.
2006-07-13 18:58:32
75.   Stormer Sports
He certainly looked out to me.
2006-07-13 19:18:22
76.   JohnnyC
"If Billy Beane can convince writers and fans that they are in a small market, they might just be able to win this game after all." Hey, Stormer, that's straight out of the Bud E. Selig textbook on Baseball Economics, LOL. Even more ludicrously, the Jerry Reinsdorf-owned Chicago White Sox convinced everyone in the media for years that they were also a small market team, despite residing in the nation's 3rd largest media center.
2006-07-13 19:29:55
77.   Simone
What are the chances that the "small market" As can win this game?
2006-07-13 19:51:11
78.   BklynBmr
77 Lookin' a lot better right now, Simone ;-)
2006-07-13 19:56:45
79.   Stormer Sports

Maybe the A's can compete if they could just move to a metropolis like Milwaukee, Kansas City, Tampa Bay, Arlington, Pittsburgh, or even San Diego.

Hell, it just might be the franchise's utter refusal to build a new stadium and sign a couple big name players for some of the most loyal fans in baseball, hmm.

Sorry, I hate Billy Beane with every ounce of my being. He does an utter disservice to teams that actually do play in small markets and I find it disingenuous and irresponsible. Not to mention that if Bill James is more important to you than Jason Giambi, Mark McGuire, Jose Canseco, Tim Hudson, Barry Zito, and Mark Mulder, you truly are a putz. The guy doesn't even watch the game for few it may scew his sabermetric hard-on. That cannot be good for baseball, no matter how accurate those formulas may be from time to time.

2006-07-13 20:17:58
80.   JeremyM
Tavarez has just been Sturtzed.
2006-07-13 20:19:53
81.   JeremyM
72 This might be me talking out of my ass, but I get the feeling that teams don't like to deal with the Yankees unless they can fleece them.
2006-07-13 20:21:14
82.   Simone
Sauerbeck?! Ugh. I didn't even know that he was still in the AL.
2006-07-13 20:22:31
83.   BklynBmr
2006-07-13 20:23:07
84.   tommyl
Clutch 11th inning popout by Ortiz. Where are all the boo birds and ESPN saying how he's not clutch, overpaid, etc?
2006-07-13 20:25:13
85.   Yu-Hsing Chen
I wonder how much we are paying Taverez... he makes Proctor look like god
2006-07-13 20:30:22
86.   Simone
A walk?! Come on.
2006-07-13 20:32:57
87.   Simone
Is there no one else in the As' pen?
2006-07-13 20:33:15
88.   tommyl
Oh c'mon. Get an out!
2006-07-13 20:34:09
89.   BklynBmr
"defensive indifference" = "prevent defense"
2006-07-13 20:34:43
90.   tommyl
there we go
2006-07-13 20:34:59
91.   BklynBmr
2.5 is a nice number...
2006-07-13 20:35:10
92.   Simone
Thank goodness. Good job, As. Take them out again tomorrow. Apparently, Ortiz's clutchness is overrated.

BklynBmr, turns out that you were so right. :)

2006-07-13 20:38:28
93.   Yu-Hsing Chen
here's to A's sweeeping the Sox
2006-07-13 20:43:28
94.   Paul in Boston
I've watched I think all of Lester's starts. I realize he's got a low ERA, and a good W-L record, but he must be the luckiest pitcher I have ever seen. So many baserunners! So many pitches thrown! It is frankly amazing ... can it keep going?
2006-07-13 21:09:22
95.   Yu-Hsing Chen
94 we shall see... I like his make up, he's potential is definately middle rotation or better but with that control he's going to get burned sooner or later... just to what degree?

He's BABIP doesn't particularly suggest luck.. it's actually been slightly unlucky, and being a lefty with good pick off helps but he has unbelivable LOB%, that can't keep up.

I think he is going to be more or less a effective back end starter for Boston this year, just don't count on him to be a top gun for now.... he's got decent zip and breaking stuff though, he looks a bit like Cole Hamels of the Phillies... whom isn't working out so well so far....

2006-07-13 21:23:31
96.   unpopster
94 I've seen his last 3 starts too and I have to agree with you, the guy is surviving on pure luck. How about this for a stat:

After tonight, Lester has thrown 37.1 innings, giving up 35 hits and a whopping 25 walks, for a total of 60 baserunners in 37+ innings...and he is 4-0??? WOW!

2006-07-13 21:26:23
97.   unpopster
wait...I just saw that Lester has also hit 3 batters, so that's a total of 63 baserunners in 37+ innings. Also, hitters are batting .313 against him.

If the Sox fans think their team has found the next Chin-Ming Wang, they're in for a rude awakening.

2006-07-13 21:35:30
98.   Stormer Sports
I ask again: Why are people walking Barry Bonds and pitching to Albert Pujols? 7 walk-offs already in his career. The man has no equal in the game, none. Grady Little and every other manager should be fired for pitching to this guy when a hit or HR wins the game. Scott Rolen, Edmonds, so fucking what. Take your chances, but it is ridicolous that people are letting this guy beat them.



I think he can. Maybe not this year, but I like his stuff and his composure. He has some control issues, but I think he'll be a solid starter.

2006-07-13 21:54:12
99.   randym77
Wow. Twice in a row, the Red Sox blow a lead and end up losing in OT.

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