Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
2006-07-08 07:42
by Cliff Corcoran

The Yankees won 1-0 for the second time this season last night behind a season-best performance by Jaret Wright (6 IP, 4 H, 0 BB, 10 K--Wright's first 10K outing since September 1998), but the big news of late has been the series of roster moves the team has made over the last several days. With another move expected today, the Yanks have added a pair of outfielders, demoted a pair of relievers, and bounced one of their starters to the bullpen.

After an outstanding first-half in Columbus (2.84 ERA, 0.97 WHIP, 4.87 K/BB in 14 starts), 29-year-old Kris Wilson was promoted on Wednesday, ultimately at the expense of 27-year-old Matt Smith. Smith has yet to allow a run in the major leagues, hurling 12 scoreless frames across three stints with the big club this year. Wilson pitched two perfect innings against Cleveland on Wednesday and was immediately given Shawn Chacon's spot in the rotation.

Chacon had struggled mightily since being activated from the disabled list, posting a 10.34 ERA, 2.10 WHIP and walking almost twice as many as he'd struck out in four starts. Chacon's first start off the DL wasn't pretty, but it wasn't a disaster (5 IP, 6 H, 5 R, 3 ER, 2 HR, 3 BB, 2 K). Unfortunately, his next start was. Staked to a 9-2 lead after four innings against the lowly Washington Nationals in his next turn, Chacon was only able to get one more out, surrendering four runs in the fifth and getting the hook after having needed 100 pitches to get through 4 1/3 innings (incidentally, he was replaced by Matt Smith, who allowed both inherited runners to score before getting an inning-ending double play). Thanks to the contributions of T.J. Beam, Everyday Scott Proctor and, to everyone's surprise, Mariano Rivera, the Yankees wound up losing that game 11-9 and Chacon officially took up residence in Joe Torre's doghouse.

Skipped the next time through the rotation, Chacon turned in a Jaret-Wright-like effort (not the insult it sounds like) against the Marlins (5 IP, 5 H, 3 R, 2 ER, 1 HR, 1 BB, 0 K), then was skipped again only to get beaten about the head and neck by the Indians in his next turn, surrendering seven runs on three homers, three walks and three other hits in just an inning and a third. The Yankees went on to lose that game 19-1 thanks once again to Beam and Everyday Scotty Proctor, with Mike Myers lending a hand as well.

The way I see it, the removal of Chacon from the rotation is a classic case of Joe Torre prematurely losing trust in a pitcher in response to an embarrassing loss (or in this case, two, both of which were as much the bullpen's doing as Chacon's). Chacon began the season with a pair of rough starts and two more unpleasant relief appearances, but then ran off a string of four starts in which he allowed exactly one run in each, lasting a minimum of 6 1/3 innings in the first three. In the fourth he was removed with two outs in the fifth inning after being hit in the leg by a Mark Lortetta comebacker that eventually resulted in his DL stay. Even with those poor early season outings included, Chacon's ERA following the comebacker game was 3.68.

Including his rehab start in Columbus, Chacon only made three starts on schedule following that injury before Torre started skipping him in the rotation, forcing Chacon to pitch on seven and then eight days of rest in consecutive starts. Unless Chacon is still, or newly injured, I don't see why Torre won't at the very least give him tomorrow's start on regular rest. It's not as if Wilson is a tremendous improvement. Sure, he looked sharp in those two innings in Cleveland, and he has been fantastic for the Clippers this year (allow me to stress this year), but he also has a 5.28 ERA and 1.50 WHIP in 237 career major league innings and has been equally bad as a starter and reliever across that span.

What's more, pushing Chacon to the bullpen is a recipe for disaster. Chacon has limited relief experience in his career, but when he's pitched out of the pen he's been dreadful. The primary data point for that statement is his 2004 season when, after Chacon had pitched exclusively as a starter over his first three major league seasons, the Rockies decided to make him their closer. The result was a 7.11 ERA, a 1.94 WHIP and as many walks as strikeouts (though he still picked up 35 saves, which should tell you something about the value of that statistic). Since then, Chacon has thrown just 4 1/3 innings out of the pen, but in that small sample allowed nine hits (including two doubles, a triple and a homer) and four walks (one intentional) against just two Ks, resulting in a 6.23 ERA.

What I'm getting at here is that if Shawn Chacon isn't going to be in the Yankees rotation, he needs to either be on the DL, in the minors, or traded, because he's Scott Erickson bad out of the pen. Unfortunately, the Yankees have not only moved Chacon into the pen, but have removed not only "Shutout" Smith, but T.J. Beam from it, leaving them with a relief corps half of which is comprised of Bombs Chacon, Everyday Scotty, and One-Out Myers. Bad news.

Speaking of which, I'd like to take this opportunity to point out that Proctor has a 7.22 ERA across his last 28 2/3 innings dating back to May 16 and has allowed a home run every 3.58 innings across that span, which translates to 2.51 homers per nine-innings. By way of comparison, Home Run Javy Vazquez allowed 1.5 HR/9IP in his season with the Yankees and Randy Johnson allowed "just" 1.28 HR/9 last year. Proctor is part of the problem. That he remains one of Torre's go-to guys while Matt Smith is starting his fourth stint with Columbus is an outrage. As cruel as it may have been, the Yankees caught a huge break when Tanyon Sturtze went down with a season-ending shoulder injury, but Scott Proctor has risen up to replace him. The Yankees need to learn to ignore the fact that Smith throws with his left hand, to ignore the fact that Proctor throws in the mid-90s and started the season with a 1.42 ERA and just one-homer allowed over his first 25 1/3 innings pitched. The wrong man is in the Yankee bullpen.

In other rookie reliever news, T.J. Beam is getting optioned down today so that the Yankees can finally bring Kevin Thompson back up. Beam's demotion is well earned given his 10.13 ERA, 1.86 WHIP and four homers allowed in eight innings pitched. Not that Beam should be judged on that small sample alone, but that poor performance combined with the fact that he only had five triple-A appearances under his belt when he was called up makes him the obvious candidate for demotion. (Meanwhile, to beat a dead horse, a poll over on the Clippers' we site reports that 42.98 percent of fans believe that Colter Bean has been the Clipper's Most Valuable Player over the first half of the season. The only other Clipper in double digits is the recently demoted Kevin Reese. Meanwhile, Free Colter Bean reports that Mr. Bean is bearing down on the all-time record for appearances by a Clipper, a record that's over 100 years old. Sigh.)

Kevin Thompson never should have been sent down in the first place, having gone 3 for 11 with a double a homer and three walks in his five appearances with the Yankees before being demoted for Jose Veras, who never got into a game with the Yanks. With Johnny Damon likely to miss the final two games of the first half due to a sore abdominal muscle and the Devil Rays starting lefties in both games, Thompson's righty bat and center field glove are at peak value to the Yankees over the next two days as the only alternatives are the lefty-hitting Bubba Crosby and Aaron Guiel.

Guiel is the Yankees' other recent addition. Like Bubba Crosby, he's a 30-something lefty-hitting outfielder celebrated for his hard-nosed playing style and teen idol good looks. Guiel isn't as fast or as strong a fielder as Crosby, but unlike Bubba, the 33-year-old Guiel has a strong minor league track record at the plate (.290/.387/.515 over 13 minor league seasons with the Angels, Padres and Royals organizations as well as a brief stint in the Mexican league in 2000). Unfortunately, he hasn't been able to make that translate into consistent major league success.

Guiel got his first shot at the majors age 29 with the Royals in 2002, the same year that Tony Peña took over as manager. He struggled mightily through 240 Bubba-like at-bats that year, but then seemed to break out at age 30 in 2003 with a .277/.346/.489 line across 354 at-bats. The next year, however, he struggled something awful before being put on the DL with blurred vision in his left eye. Guiel eventually got laser surgery on both eyes and returned to the team after tearing up the Pacific Coast League, but didn't get back on track in the majors until the following season when he hit .294/.355/.450 across 109 at-bats after having once again beat up on the PCL.

The Royals finally fired General Manager Allard Baird this May and his replacement, former Braves' assistant GM Dayton Moore, likely realized that the 33-year-old Guiel was neither going to be a part of the Royals future, nor had even modest trade value. So, on June 30 Guiel was designated for assignment despite some signs of life over a very small sample (3 homers and 7 walks in 59 plate appearances in the majors on top of a .249/.388/.525 line in triple-A).

With Brian Cashman wanting to wait to make a deal until as close to the non-waiver trading deadline as possible in order to drive town teams' asking prices, taking a flier on Guiel is a solid bargain basement move. That said, having both Guiel and Crosby on the team is redundant. As I've been arguing since spring training, I'd much rather see Kevin Thompson in Bubba's spot, and with the recently demoted Kevin Reese available as a lefty option in case Guiel doesn't pan out, I just don't see the point in hanging on to Bubba any longer. Thompson and Guiel/Reese give the Yankees a righty-lefty set of back-up/platoon-worthy outfielders, both of whom can play center (Reese and Thompson have been the Clippers' primary center fielders since Melky's promotion), steal a base, and, unlike Mr. Crosby, hit.

Though I think Reese deserved a longer look (5 for 13 with two walks and a steal in the majors, though no extra base hits), Guiel's 2003 and 2005 major league numbers and minor league track record are very intriguing. If Guiel can hit .280/.350/.460 or so from the left side (or perhaps even better, particularly in terms of his slugging, if not forced to face lefty pitching) while splitting right field with either Bernie (.329/.374/.488 vs. lefties) or Thompson (who, like Guiel, would represent a significant defensive upgrade in right), the Yankees may not need to trade for a right fielder. And speaking of defense, this fiercely objective site speaks very highly of Guiel's throwing arm. Does replacing Bernie's .253/.285/.374 performance against righties with Guiel's bat, arm, and 103 career Rate in right field not sound like a good idea to anyone?

In other news, Erubiel Durazo exercised his out-clause in his minor league deal with the Yankees and was released following a .290/.400/.419 performance in 19 games with the Clippers. And for anyone who hasn't already heard, the Yankees signed 16-year-old catching prospect Jesus Montero for $2 million this past week. Montero is one of the most highly regarded, if not the most highly regarded, international free agent from this year's group and, while many expect the 6'3" Montero to change positions before reaching the majors, the Yankees believe he's their Catcher of the Future, which, combined with Jorge's strong performance thus far this year, should take some of the edge off seeing Dioner Navarro in a Devil Rays' uniform this weekend.

Comments (188)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-07-08 12:12:54
1.   randym77
Teen idol good looks? LOL! I don't think Ralph Malph ever qualified as a teen idol. o_O

And Bubba's not 30-something yet. He's still south of 30, at least for another month or so.

The Post reports a Pittsburgh scout was seen at the Yankees games Thursday and Friday nights. They think a trade's in the works. Presumably for Craig Wilson. ESPN reports that they want a pitching prospect and a young OFer who can play every day for Wilson. Do you think the Yanks would give up Melky?

Actually, I don't understand why they want an OFer. They have more outfielding talent than they know what to do with. That's part of the problem with Wilson.

2006-07-08 12:17:34
2.   Cliff Corcoran
1 The Post is a rag and rumors don't interest me. Good catch on Bubba's age. He'll be 30 on August 11.
2006-07-08 12:40:32
3.   Jeteupthemiddle
I must say that I have absolutely no problems with pulling Chacon from the rotation.

I think there is a difference between not being sharp because of too much rest, and not even being usable...

Apparently, Chacon's velocity is down. Perhaps he does have an injury or something.

Anyway, my vote for calling up Thompson was DFAing Bubba.

2006-07-08 12:41:13
4.   randym77
Bubba and Melky have the same birthday, oddly enough.

I wonder how much is really changing. To me, this looks like last minute patch-up/match-up stuff. Send down Smith and Beam, because everyone else in the bullpen is available with the break coming up. Bring up KT because we need a righty with two southpaw starters coming up and Damon unavailable.

Cashman said he thinks Chacon's problem is "lack of consistent work," so even he may be back in the rotation eventually. (I don't think anyone thinks he'll be any good out of the bullpen.)

2006-07-08 12:43:29
5.   monkeypants
LoHud Yankees reports (rumor/suspicion) that Cano may be out a little longer. If true, this is bad, not just because it means Cano's bat is out and Cairo/Green is in, but also because the Yanks will feel compelled to keep both Cairo and Green on the roster (as starter and 'back-up'). With Redundant Chacon, the team would once again find itself with a roster of essentially 23 players.

Every spot on the roster can't be an all-star, but when will they get it through their skulls to carry a full complement of players who actually have a function?

2006-07-08 12:57:41
6.   C2Coke
As bad as the news might sound, I think Cliff's writing was extremely funny. Thanks, Cliff.

Last year, some magic happened. Truth be told, we were pretty lucky with the 50-50 chance. At least, we are able to see that Cano and Wang are for real. Small and Chacon were just proving that it was magic's work.

2006-07-08 13:04:43
7.   BayRidger
5. You could interpert that entry a number of different ways. It doesn't say anything about Cano being out for longer. My interpretation is that they were thinking of bringing him back early, thus the tryout today.

Can't the White Sox help us out at all? That team is a paper tiger as are the Tigers.

2006-07-08 13:11:19
8.   monkeypants
7 I agree to a point, but you can't really bring Cano back 'early', since he is on the DL (he's stuck for 15 days no matter how early he recovers). So, at best Cano comes back after 15 days, and at worst (depending on how to take that report), he stays on the DL longer.
2006-07-08 13:28:53
9.   randym77
Did anyone catch Leiter and Kay talking about home plate umpire Joe West last night? I was surprised at how blunt they were. Especially Leiter.


Leiter: "Ooh, Jae Seo better not do that too often to Joe West, the home plate umpire."

Kay: "That's the wrong guy to show up."

Leiter: "Although this stadium, even for Joe West who can be crabby once in awhile, this is a QuesTec stadium. So the home plate umpires...they're being graded. So as much as an umpire like Joe West might want to not call a strike a strike, here they've got to make sure their percentages are high enough."

Kay: "Crabby? How does that manifest itself? Squeeze you?"

Leiter: "Take a look."


They seemed to think West could be rather vindictive. I wonder if he's still holding that incident in Atlanta against Torre. When Torre was managing the Braves, he and West got into a scuffle. West ended up getting a fine and a three-day suspension for shoving Torre.

West was the guy who made that awful call on Cano in Game 5 last year. And the guy who ejected RJ for throwing inside last month.

It might explain why the Yanks were swinging like Soriano last night.

2006-07-08 13:29:12
10.   nyctarheel87
The White Sox just had bases loaded, no out, with Thome, Konerko, and Dye due up next. They got ZERO runs in...unbelievable.
2006-07-08 13:30:34
11.   Simone
I don't want Proctor on the Yankees, period. I also think that Chacon is dreadful.

The White Sox are simply pathetic. Bases loaded, no one out and they can't get one run in. I don't know why I don't just accept that they aren't going to beat the Red Sox.

2006-07-08 13:59:20
12.   3rd gen yankee fan
10 11 It is sick, isn't it? I'm looking forward to going in there and beating the crap out of them in retribution. Who was it who said they were going to get a punch in the face from the AL East?
2006-07-08 14:06:16
13.   nyctarheel87
12. Yeah at least we gain ground in the Wild Card race this way
2006-07-08 14:59:43
14.   randym77
And the lineup:

Melky Cabrera LF
Derek Jeter SS
Jason Giambi DH
Alex Rodriguez 3B
Jorge Posada C
Bernie Williams CF
Andy Phillips 1B
Miguel Cairo 2B
Kevin Thompson RF

Bernie in CF, KT in RF? Can't Thompson play CF?

2006-07-08 15:11:03
15.   monkeypants
14 I love Bernie. He's is probably my favorite yankee of the current dynasty era. He was, arguably, just about the only prospect whom the Yankees developed (along with Posada, as opposed to Jeter, who basically just happened). And I will even plead guilty to nostalgic satisfaction that he was signed for one last year (?) year, and optimistically hoped for a slight rebound and nice little season offensively.

I take it back. His signing has been a scourge, because Torre simply cannot be trusted to use Bernie within the limited parameters of his remaining skills. Combined with Torre's mistrust of young players, and with each passing injury, Bernie has gone from part-timer to starting DH to starting RF to starting CF. This is insane.

2006-07-08 15:47:21
16.   Maz
Hey let's bring up the Red Sox for a minute here. I hate to say it but I really believe they are the team to beat right now in the American League. I don't know what kind of magician Ron Jackson is over there, but it's unbelievable. That guy gets everyone to hit. This was supposed to be the year their offense cooled such luck.

Someone in the Yankee organization really needs to take some notes. Theo and his clan over there have really put some pieces in place. The most astonishing of them being the defense. I can't count how many games the Yankees have let get away with shody defense...and the inverse being how many the Red Sox have won with defense. I don't know if the Yankees just ignore the importance of defense or just think they can hit their way out of everything. Continually putting Bernie out there is just the kind of liability that makes you scratch your head.

Pitching, defense and timely hitting. We all know the formula. Let's get Cashman and Torre on the right page here. Sure there have been a ton of injuries, but someone in the organization needs to start making some smart decisions.

2006-07-08 15:47:25
17.   Cliff Corcoran
15 I caught all that Bernie apoliziging last night. I wasn't around to weight in, but now that you mention it again, let me say that at no point this season have I thought that reupping Bernie was anything other than a mistake. I love the guy, but he shouldn't be here.
2006-07-08 15:59:52
18.   randym77
15 Well, they offered an explanation on YES. Torre thinks Bernie sees the ball really well indoors, especially at the Trop. Hence his great hitting stats in Tampa. I guess Joe is hoping that this will allow him to get great reads on the ball in outfield, too.

16 Actually, the Yankees' defense is better than the Sox, at least according to BP's "defensive efficiency" stat. (#6 for the Yanks vs. #11 for Boston). The Yanks are much better on defense than they were last year or the year before.

2006-07-08 16:18:33
19.   Maz
Let BP say whatever it wants stats-wise, the proof is in the pudding. Boston has a better defense. The fact that the Yankees defense is better this year than it's been the last two isn't really saying much.

It just supports my point that the Yankees just seem to ignore defense.

2006-07-08 16:18:58
20.   BklynBmr
Is it too early to mention that Kazmir has a perfect game going?
2006-07-08 16:22:18
21.   randym77
19 No, I think the Yankees really are better on defense than the Sox.

But I agree with you about the Yanks ignoring defense. They're much better this year, but it probably wasn't planned. It might just be the result of being forced to play Melky, Andy, Bubba, Kevin, etc.

2006-07-08 16:25:20
22.   Simone
Maz, the Red Sox were always the Yankees competition in the AL East.

BklynBmr, the Yankees will be lucky to hit that kid who just a stud this season.

Is that true that Jeter has only committed 6 errors so far this season?

2006-07-08 16:25:53
23.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
19 The pudding is the fact that the Yankees are substantially better than the Sawx at turning balls put into play into outs. As are 10 other major league teams. The Sawx are extraordinarily sure-handed, and have given up very few earned runs. These are only one measure of a good defense however.
2006-07-08 16:27:39
24.   BklynBmr
There's some defense for ya...
2006-07-08 16:28:04
25.   randym77
Speaking of defense... Miggy nails Lugo, Jorgie nails Crawford.
2006-07-08 16:32:50
26.   randym77
Jeter does have only 6 errors. A-Rod and Giambi make up for it, though.

But I don't think errors really tell you that much about the quality of the defense.

2006-07-08 16:32:57
27.   kylepetterson
That walk was so un-clutch. bastard.
2006-07-08 16:38:32
28.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
27 Papi only walks when its bases loaded in the 12th inning.
2006-07-08 16:41:02
29.   kylepetterson
28 - and on only 3 pitches.
2006-07-08 16:41:41
30.   Maz
Okay, this seems like a fairly lively debate here. Let me counter.

If all the passed ball allowed by Josh Bard while he was catching Wakefield are being factored into the defense rating, than the figures are skewed at best.

Yes the Sox are tremendously sure-handed, and that is one defensive observation I put a lot of stock in. I can't speak for putting balls into play into outs in reference to the Yankees vs the Sox, but if you say so. I have seen quite a few balls not gotten to though.

Simone - I'm pretty aware of the whole Sox - Yankees AL East thing.

2006-07-08 16:42:29
31.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
29 And every pitch is two feet off the plate, or else he'd reach out and smack 450 to center.
2006-07-08 16:43:40
32.   randym77
I think we jinxed Jeter. :-P

Nice catch by KT. Bernie wouldn't have made that one.

2006-07-08 16:43:43
33.   BklynBmr
Nice D, Kevin!
2006-07-08 16:44:08
34.   kdw
22 Hmmmm, now 7?
2006-07-08 16:44:11
35.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
All right, who jinxed Jeter.
2006-07-08 16:45:13
36.   kylepetterson
31 - would that be "big papi envy"?
2006-07-08 16:46:00
37.   Simone
LOL! I'm putting the blame on the D'Rays' announcers.
2006-07-08 16:49:09
38.   singledd
I there ANYONE else who think the Yanks have better D then the Sox? I don't think so.
randym77... aside from 1st base and LF, where are the Yankees better then the Sox? (I'd say Catcher is a wash, and 3rd base could be a wash on a good year from ARod).
2006-07-08 16:50:04
39.   BklynBmr
Well, we've already doubled the Sawx' offensive output against Kazmir...
2006-07-08 16:53:25
40.   Simone
Damn, that was ball 4.
2006-07-08 16:53:51
41.   randym77
Joe thinks Jeter just can't see the ball in the Trop. The opposite of Bernie, who can see it really well.
2006-07-08 16:53:58
42.   Maz
Singledd, finally some sanity. Although, I believe the Sox are better at 1B as well. I think I'd give the Yankees the edge in CF. That Damon kid can go get it. Leftfield...I guess so.

So my tally has CF & LF. That's about it.

2006-07-08 16:55:25
43.   Simone
Wang just has to pitch lights out for the rest of the game.
2006-07-08 16:57:42
44.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
42 Check BP. We're better at catcher, lf, cf, 2nd base. Jeter and AGon are equally poor ss. They're better at 3rd, 1st, and rf.
2006-07-08 16:57:45
45.   singledd
Maz... Youk over Phillips? I don't know. Damon over Crisp? I don't know. Did you see Crisp's FANTASTIC catch last week. That would have hospitalized Johnny.
2006-07-08 17:00:08
46.   singledd
44 There are many different defensive Stats, and any stathead will tell you, defensive stats are highly subject to judgement. I tend to use my eyes. You think AGoz is poor? I watch about 150 Sox games on TV every year. Maybe you are seeing something I'm not.
2006-07-08 17:00:23
47.   BklynBmr
Good chat going on with The Stick on YES...
2006-07-08 17:00:39
48.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
45 Yes, Coco Chanel has made some circus catches, but he's a lf masquerading as a cf. Damon is marginally better.

Andy's RATE is actually a very poor 93. Youk is just about avg at 100 or so.

2006-07-08 17:01:04
49.   singledd
If Wang can pitch a 12 inning shutout, I think Giambi will pop one his 5thtime at bat.
2006-07-08 17:04:43
50.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
46 More subjective than your feelings after watching Agon play what,70 games this season?

It's not question of seeing something. Lots of folks think Jeter's a great ss.

Agon's career RATE is 94. This season he's only marginally better than that. Jeter's actually been better than he the last 3 seasons.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-07-08 17:04:43
51.   Maz
Yeah I saw that catch...fantastic. Might have been one of the best I've ever seen.

Funny story about that, my buddy was in a bar here in LA, it's called Sonny McClaine's, it's a Red Sox bar...I would never set foot in there. Anyway there was this bunch of old guys in there watching the game, one old timer had a Crisp jersey on. After Crisp made the catch everyone in the bar was going up to him and congratulating him...turns out is was Crisp's grandfather. Great story if you're a fan of the great old game.

With that in mind I still think Damon's better. Regarding Phillips, we just haven't seen enough to determine yet...but at this point, it goes to Youklis.

2006-07-08 17:10:56
52.   tocho
Hey, a quick question (and I know somebody answered it in the past but can't seem to find it). I just got a Mac and don't know how to get the MLB.TV working.

any help will be very appreciated.

2006-07-08 17:13:18
53.   singledd
"Agon's career RATE is 94."
What is 'RATE' based on?
2006-07-08 17:16:31
54.   its430
52 You have to download a program called:
"Flip 4 Mac" which will allow windows media to be opened in Quicktime.

It is free and should be available either through's help section, or just google it.

It ain't great, at best its serviceable. I've never had the feed's video and audio synched correctly.

Good luck.

2006-07-08 17:17:06
55.   claybeez
52 I believe the solution was to download Flip4Mac. It'll play everything on QT instead of WMP. The only problem I've had with it is not being able to disable it and use WMP for that type of streaming video/audio when I choose.
2006-07-08 17:18:10
56.   tocho
54 thanks, i'll try it..
2006-07-08 17:19:12
57.   Maz
I've got to be honest with you guys, I love stats, but all the stats they have's just too much. All these crazy defense stats, holds, catcher's eras it's absurd. You can tell a lot more by just watching a game than sifting through all these stats. I know they're helpful, obviously, because you can't watch all the games, but all the teams have scouts that are a hell of a lot more valuable.
2006-07-08 17:30:17
58.   randym77
38 Actually, we aren't better at 1B. We're better at C, 2B, LF, and probably CF.

Building on the work YFIC did last night...

BP's RATEs for position (career/2006):

c: Jorgie clearly better
Tek: 100/105
Jorgie: 102/108

1b: Youk beats Andy, but I think Andy just had a rough start
Youk: 100/100
Andy: 92/93
Giambi: 94/84

2b: Both Cano and Cairo are better this year
Loretta: 105/104
Cano: 104/112
Cairo: 101/107

3b: Lowell better than A-Rod
Lowell: 107/110
A-Rod: 99/93

SS: Gonzalez better than Jeet, but not better than Cairo
AGon: 94/99
Jeet: 92/97
Cairo: 95/100

LF: Both Melky and Godzilla beat Manny
Manny: 92/89
Melky: 114/114
Matsui: 98/114

CF: Tied this year, but I give the advantage to Damon
Crisp: 91/97
Damon: 102/97

RF: Nixon clearly better
Nixon: 101/103
Bernie: 100/95
Sheff: 96/95

Didn't look for any numbers, but I bet we're better at pitcher, too. We have some pitchers that are pretty good with the glove.

2006-07-08 17:30:21
59.   Simone
This is it. The Yankees have to get a run in here.
2006-07-08 17:31:39
60.   Mattpat11
Its like Bubba, but good! yay KT!
2006-07-08 17:33:17
61.   Simone
Ugh, no run.
2006-07-08 17:33:38
62.   randym77
Rats. Jeter really does struggle in the Trop.
2006-07-08 17:35:12
63.   singledd
Did they give Huff and error on that? Nobody could have fielded that cleanly.
2006-07-08 17:35:42
64.   randym77
Yeah, Melky!!!! Holy crap!
2006-07-08 17:35:52
65.   Simone
Melky! Watch a catch!
2006-07-08 17:36:21
66.   Simone
Oops, that should have been "what a catch!" I was so excited.
2006-07-08 17:37:18
67.   Simone
Now Cairo making a nice catch.
2006-07-08 17:37:30
68.   Maz
You see, that's my point, all those sats and I pretty much would have come to the same conclusion just from watching. I would have said Cano was better than Loretta, I think Cano is underated. I don't agree with the Tek - Posada comparison. I think that's just too close to call.
2006-07-08 17:39:16
69.   singledd
It is truly a thing of beauty to see Yankee outfielders make outstanding plays. Something we rarely saw last year with MatsWillShef
2006-07-08 17:40:30
70.   Simone
Jorgie throwing them out tonight.
2006-07-08 17:41:07
71.   randym77
I don't think head-to-head really tells you anything, unless one team is better at every position. Which isn't the case here.

And I think Posada is way better than Tek. Posada is underrated, IMO. He's really worked on his defense this year, and it shows.

Right there, for example...

2006-07-08 17:42:27
72.   yankz
And Jeter hits a mini-slump :(
2006-07-08 17:44:10
73.   Simone
I don't understand. Damon running for Giambi. Is something wrong with Jason?
2006-07-08 17:45:18
74.   Marcus
Hey Maz, I don't mean this as a slight really, but everyone's got a bias. I don't mean that in a pro-Yanks, anti-Red Sox way, but more a "you see what you want to see". Especially if you're watching a game on TV, you can't see everything that's going on defensively. Where are the players positioned? What kind of jump did they get? You can't see that on TV usually.

How do you know if you're remembering everything accurately or if you're excentuating awesome/terrible plays? That's what the numbers are for, and granted no single stat is perfect, but they are trying to be as objective as possible.

2006-07-08 17:45:37
75.   singledd
Wow. We lose Giambi at DH. Who DH'es now? Damon?
2006-07-08 17:45:58
76.   Maz
I'm just not sold on Posada being better. I don't know what it is but he just seems to have some problems dealing with cetain pitchers. Now perhaps it's the pitchers, but either way, there's a problem. I don't see that with Varitek, he seems to work very well, aside from not being able to catch Wakefield, with the whole staff.

He does seem to have stepped up his game throwing out runners this year, I'll give you that.

2006-07-08 17:46:13
77.   Simone
Yeah, Jorgie!
2006-07-08 17:47:30
78.   claybeez
Jorgie has been super-impressive tonight.
2006-07-08 17:47:37
79.   singledd
73 Whats wrong with Giambi is that he would NOT have scored on that single to center. More Torre bizarro genius. More Torre genius.... right guys?
2006-07-08 17:49:34
80.   singledd
Also... Bernie has 2 of our 5 hits. More Torre genius. (am I rubbing the Torre haters the wrong way?)
2006-07-08 17:50:46
81.   randym77
Giambi is not only slow, he's a terrible baserunner. Torre did the right thing.

I don't know about Damon DHing, though. I thought they didn't want him batting?

2006-07-08 17:51:11
82.   singledd
Miggy sometimes steps up for us. Lets see.....
2006-07-08 17:51:23
83.   Simone
singledd, you know that calling Joe a genius here will start a ruckus that will end with certain posters frothing at the mouth. LOL!
2006-07-08 17:51:25
84.   sam2175
79 Actually, Giambi scored one from second on a single YESTERDAY. Just in case you forgot.
2006-07-08 17:54:24
85.   Maz
Okay, stats are what they are. They're there to help break the game down, make it as tangible as possible. Bring some order to the things you don't see, exactly what you're talking about.

I've got to believe the people involved in the game remember what's going on. That's their job, they've had years of experience on the field. They usually don't need all these crazy stats to know how to position a player, or to know who gets a good jump on the ball. I'm not knocking all stats, I'm just not a fan of relying on the obscure ones.

2006-07-08 17:54:57
86.   singledd
TB announcer:
Hopefully, this inning, the Rays will be able to guess right against Wong (Wang).
2006-07-08 17:56:18
87.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
76 there have been some rumblings tho from Sawx fans I know regarding Tek's handling of Beckett. Folks blaming Tek for some of Beckett's poor starts -- pitch calls etc.
2006-07-08 17:56:55
88.   singledd
83 Really? No...
2006-07-08 17:57:17
89.   randym77
Their aggressiveness on the basepaths is killing them.
2006-07-08 17:57:39
90.   SF Yanks
2006-07-08 17:57:47
91.   Simone
Good inning for the Yankees.
2006-07-08 17:57:48
92.   Eirias
2006-07-08 17:58:46
93.   singledd
Wow. Why would a ruuning be running on contact with the infield IN? With the infield back, yes... but not in. A bad call by TB management.
2006-07-08 17:59:11
94.   singledd
..a runner be running..
2006-07-08 18:00:42
95.   singledd
And Wang is quietly outpitching the WizKid
2006-07-08 18:01:20
96.   randym77
Maybe he just went on his own.
2006-07-08 18:03:30
97.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
Huge if we can get Melky in.
2006-07-08 18:03:50
98.   randym77
Leiter is still going on about Eminem music and that trade. It must really bother him.
2006-07-08 18:04:28
99.   randym77
Wow, they're walking Jeter. He's batting something like .143 in the Trop this year.
2006-07-08 18:04:51
100.   marc
hey, if the yankees go to the playoffs Torre will be manger of the year. He never had a chance before because of the big payroll on the field which obviously is not the case most of this year. Also Bernie will be MVP. Only kidding about Bernie, but I am serious about Joe
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-07-08 18:05:41
101.   3rd gen yankee fan
99 Indeed, that was weird.
2006-07-08 18:05:45
102.   BklynBmr
99 Johnny 1-12 vs. Kazmir. .083...
2006-07-08 18:06:54
103.   singledd
Torre. Genius. Puuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure Genius.
2006-07-08 18:07:27
104.   BklynBmr
Heh-heh. Make that 2-13 ;-)
2006-07-08 18:07:28
105.   randym77
Torre's a genius, putting Damon in...
2006-07-08 18:07:37
106.   SF Yanks
Johnny, Johnny. I love thee...
2006-07-08 18:07:37
107.   Simone
Johnny D. saves the day. Joe is a genius.
2006-07-08 18:08:13
108.   randym77
G'night, Kaz!
2006-07-08 18:08:16
109.   BklynBmr
105 Hard to dispute that, huh?
2006-07-08 18:08:25
110.   singledd
Better then Crisp!
Torre. Genius. Puuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure Genius.
2006-07-08 18:08:25
111.   sam2175
Ok, that makes Torre a genius.

Just kidding.

2006-07-08 18:08:25
112.   bloodyank78
Johnny D Triple!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2006-07-08 18:08:26
113.   nyctarheel87
100. One problem...Jim Leyland
2006-07-08 18:10:23
114.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
John-ny baseball. John-ny baseball.
2006-07-08 18:10:29
115.   randym77
Damon's numbers with RISP are insane. It's almost a waste to bat him leadoff.
2006-07-08 18:10:36
116.   BklynBmr
Yeah, watch — now A-Rod will hit an HR...
2006-07-08 18:12:38
117.   Maz
Umm...yeah...Torre's great?!?
2006-07-08 18:13:29
118.   marc
Torre's move having Damon run for Giambi and take over the DH spot seems pretty good wouldn't you say, Torre detractors?
2006-07-08 18:15:54
119.   Maz
Who else was Torre gonna have come in to run and then DH? Bubba? Come on now. That was the only card he had to play.
2006-07-08 18:17:52
120.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
118 Giambi would've scored on that single, and then he would've hit a homer instead of a triple next time up. Damn you Joe Torre. ;-)
2006-07-08 18:18:09
121.   BklynBmr
119 The cherce was to do or not to do. He made the right call...
2006-07-08 18:19:25
122.   randym77
121 Exactly. Kay was aghast that Torre was willing to lose Giambi's bat. But it worked out.
2006-07-08 18:21:22
123.   marc
we have only a lousy 3 run lead. hardly confortable at this point but at least Wang has a low pitch count. So we need him to stay sharp
2006-07-08 18:21:46
124.   nyctarheel87
So does Wang now pitch through the 9th, or should Mo come in?
2006-07-08 18:22:47
125.   Mattpat11
Oh christ Bubba siting. The outfielders need body armor
2006-07-08 18:23:24
126.   randym77
Proctor's warming.
2006-07-08 18:24:49
127.   singledd
If Wang can go 8 and keep things as is, we should build a statue of him in Times Square. But Mo is in for the 9th, no matter what.
2006-07-08 18:26:10
128.   rabid stan
This Wang kid is really good at his job.
2006-07-08 18:26:42
129.   singledd
Remember when Moses had 12 Commandments, but broke 2 on the way down the mount? Well, the 11th Commandment was:
And Mo shall pitcheth the 9th.
2006-07-08 18:27:14
130.   rabid stan
That's Andy's first hit in forever.
2006-07-08 18:28:13
131.   sam2175
126 I am positively scared by that, genius Joe Torre notwithstanding. I mean, Wang is at 77 pitches, this is a great chance for him to go the distance, and is his last outing before AS break.

It seems logical to let him go the distance. But Proctor might strike out the side if he gets into the game, and the post-fact "Torre genius" machines will start working overtime.

2006-07-08 18:28:19
132.   marc
Wow, 77 pitches after 7. Hell if he doesn't weaken send him till he gets in trouble and have Mo ready to move right in if needed.
2006-07-08 18:28:54
133.   randym77
Andy got hits in those last two games in Cleveland.

But he has been struggling.

2006-07-08 18:29:27
134.   BklynBmr
C'mon, offense. We gotta Proctor-proof this one... (with props and apologies to singledd)
2006-07-08 18:29:51
135.   Maz
Torre will yank Wang before the 9th...that just made me giggle. He's already having flash backs of Washington.
2006-07-08 18:30:03
136.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
I don't want to jinx anything, but anyone know when the last time a team that rhymes with Blankees had 2 shut outs in a row?
2006-07-08 18:32:16
137.   BklynBmr
136 Keep it down, YF ;-) That's too close...
2006-07-08 18:32:16
138.   singledd
Man... Miggy really aimed that ball right where he hit it.
2006-07-08 18:32:53
139.   Simone
Kerry Wood out for the season. I'm beginning to think that the Cubs' curse of the billy goat might actually be real.
2006-07-08 18:33:05
140.   sam2175
Man, Edwin Jackson's stats are ugly. And he was one of the best pitching prospects about a couple of years back.
2006-07-08 18:35:39
141.   Alex Belth
Excellent game for Wang, Thompson, Melky, Damon and Jorgie. Two huge caught stealings by Jorge.
2006-07-08 18:36:12
142.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
139 I have a pet theory that it's actually the curse of Wrigley Field -- Cubs have never won there and they tookit over from the defunct Federal League franchise round about 1916 -- a league done in by the AL/NL similar to the way the NFL did the USFL. I think the Chicago Federal League team owner cursed the place.
2006-07-08 18:36:30
143.   singledd
Melky has leveled out his swing. No more outfield flies, which makes him a decent hitter.

134 Is that enough?

2006-07-08 18:38:28
144.   BklynBmr
143 I'd say 'yeah'. They'll be a quick hook for anyone who loses the plot tonight...
2006-07-08 18:40:00
145.   Simone
142, I'll bite. Why would the Chicago Federal League team owner curse Wrigley Field?
2006-07-08 18:41:20
146.   Simone
Okay, I give up. How do I do the link to a poster's number?
2006-07-08 18:42:13
147.   randym77
146 Put square brackets around the number.
2006-07-08 18:42:19
148.   BklynBmr
Brackets [ ] around the number...
2006-07-08 18:42:22
149.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
145 B/c he built the place, and then, from what I know, the AL/NL owners did everything in their power to kill the new league, and were successful in doing away with the FL. The Cubs went from being a premier team before they moved into the new digs to a team that won only few more pennants and no WS.
2006-07-08 18:45:06
150.   BklynBmr
What are the keystrokes to underline a word or a sentence?
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2006-07-08 18:46:23
151.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
I came by the Wrigley theory from reading the Mickey Rawlings baseball mystery novels by Troy Roos, which are set in baseball in the noughts and teens, and center on a journeyman infielder who solves crimes. He has one set in Chicago that talks about the Federal Lg.
2006-07-08 18:46:38
152.   randym77
150 The same as they used to be in the old plain text days. Asterisks for bold, underbars for underline.
2006-07-08 18:48:32
153.   rsmith51
149 The billy goat curse makes a better story.
2006-07-08 18:49:14
154.   Simone
Thanks 147 and 148. Yep, it works.
2006-07-08 18:50:59
155.   Simone
148, your version of the curse totally works.
2006-07-08 18:52:39
156.   Simone
My last post was in response to Yankee Fan in Chicago.
2006-07-08 18:53:58
157.   BklynBmr
152 Thanks, randym...
2006-07-08 18:55:53
158.   randym77
Is Tiger done for the night, or will Torre let him go for the CG?
2006-07-08 18:56:08
159.   marc
91 pitches through 8. He'll get his shot anyway
2006-07-08 18:57:16
160.   rsmith51
158 Definitely finish. He has the all-star break to rest.
2006-07-08 18:57:59
161.   BklynBmr
I'll be the first to admit that I don't have both oars in the water, but could the Yanks possibly have three 20 game winners this season? Moose, RJ and Tiger. Just daydreamin'...
2006-07-08 18:58:49
162.   Mattpat11
.203 and plumeting. Bubba should be bringing his A game with KT on the team now.
2006-07-08 19:00:42
163.   randym77
Looks like they are going to give Wanger a shot.
2006-07-08 19:01:07
164.   RIYank
I think the big cushion gives Tiger a chance. In a save situation Mo would get the call.

The past couple of days would make me think the DRay batters just aren't that good, but we know they're good. They pounded the BoSox pitching.

And by the way, am I taking too much from too small a sample, or are the White Sox really just weaker than expected? The Crimson Hose are manhandling them.

2006-07-08 19:02:10
165.   marc
I wonder if the games's Wang pitches are teivised in Taiwan these days. He must still be a big star there.
2006-07-08 19:02:28
166.   RIYank
Yep, there he goes. Good, he deserves it.
And assuming he finishes the deal, it means tomorrow Mr. Torre can pick from his entire staff, minus Moose (healing) and Wang.
2006-07-08 19:02:43
167.   rsmith51
164 Maybe they are out of practice after playing the AAA NL Central. Twins, Tigers, and White Sox went nuts in interleague play.
2006-07-08 19:04:23
168.   BklynBmr
Funny exchange between Kay and The Senator:

Kaye: Al, are you down with Wang finishing the game?

Al: No way! I think he should finish...

Kay: No, 'down with' means you're in favor of it"...

Al: Oh, then yes...

2006-07-08 19:07:11
169.   marc
101 pitches. A DP would be nice here.
2006-07-08 19:07:24
170.   Simone
Wang is done.
2006-07-08 19:07:38
171.   randym77
Farnsy's coming in.
2006-07-08 19:08:01
172.   RIYank
Ah, well. Who's coming in, Farns?
2006-07-08 19:08:37
173.   Maz
See Torre's having a Washington flashback.
2006-07-08 19:08:59
174.   Zack
Farns better uphold Wang's gem...
2006-07-08 19:09:14
175.   SF Yanks
Wang's ERA dips into the 3's. If these two runners score hopefully into won't bump back into the 4's. 3's look a lot nicer.
2006-07-08 19:09:37
176.   Mattpat11
NoWorth coming in?
2006-07-08 19:10:21
177.   RIYank
This is technically a save situation. Let's see if Farnsworth can pad his stats....
2006-07-08 19:10:46
178.   marc
they should have Mo ready in case Gomes hits it out
2006-07-08 19:11:25
179.   BklynBmr
I'll trade that... C'mon Farns. No foolin' around here...
2006-07-08 19:11:48
180.   Zack
damn, betwen Wang's earned run this inning and Brian Fuentes exploading in colorado, what was looking to be a great fantasy pitching day for me just collapsed...sigh
2006-07-08 19:12:52
181.   SF Yanks
And Wangers ERA jumps back into the 4's.
2006-07-08 19:15:10
182.   SF Yanks
2006-07-08 19:15:22
183.   randym77
Yeah! Yankees win!
2006-07-08 19:15:47
184.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
175 Huff's run makes it 4 exactly.

168 too funny. Which could lead to the following conversation in the booth after the game.

Al -- wait,, "down with" means support or agree with? So that you're telling me that when Anna Benson asked me at that party if "I was down with O.P.P." she really meant . . .

2006-07-08 19:15:49
185.   BklynBmr
Sweet! Now go get an OF with a bat, Ca$hmoney!!!
2006-07-08 19:19:54
186.   BklynBmr
184 LOL! Too bad hubby still wasn't with the Mutts when she busted him cheating — we would have found out if she was a woman of her word or not '-)
2006-07-08 19:23:08
187.   marc
Torre just tied Casey Stengel for 10th in all time wins.
2006-07-08 21:45:58
188.   Yu-Hsing Chen
165 marc, yes all of Wang's game are televised in Taiwan, and yes we probably vote him for President if he runs :P

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