Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
2006-06-22 05:38
by Alex Belth
Note: The Bronx Banter blog has moved to

Jaret Wright was not able to pitch deep into last night's ball game, but he threw up zeros for the five innings he did pitch. He also put some good wood on the ball and drove in the first run of the game with a sacrifice fly to deep left field. Ron Villone, Scott Proctor, Kyle Farnsworth and finally Mariano Rivera each pitched scoreless innings as the Yanks beat the Phillies 5-0. Miguel Cairo, Johnny Damon, Derek Jeter, Melky Cabrera and Robinson Cano led the offense. Bobby Abreu whiffed three times for the Phils and Wright struck out Ryan Howard twice as well. Cole Hamels allowed two runs over seven innings and was impressive for Philadelphia (he mastered Jason Giambi all night). The victory gave the Yanks a 3-3 record on the road trip. The Bombers return home to face the Marlins (Old Timer's Day is this Saturday), Braves and Mets in the final home stand before the All-Star break.

Comments (122)
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2006-06-22 06:01:14
1.   rbj
Looks like I missed a good game. Storms knocked out the cable tv & modem after the third.
I was reduced to pulling out the rabbit ears and watching local broadcast tv: ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS and Fox. 1970s all over again.
2006-06-22 06:05:30
2.   singledd
Since this is not a gameday thread, I pose a question to try and get the collective thoughts and smarts of the participants of the BB site. Bear in mind, we never know if Cashman or Torre is secretly reading this site (which could explain some of their smarter moves).

I believe we will get and OF'er. I just don't think the FO wants to play in the PS (assuming we get there) with the current roster. The kids are fun and certainly an organizational move in the right direction... but we have a WS to win this year.

So post your answers to the following. This is not fantasy stuff. Don't bother with unrealistic answers (Abreu for T-Long and Small). Also, I know we need pitching, and the FO with probably address that if they can, but lets stick to the OF for this post.
Also, Alex and Cliff, I hope you guys chime in on this

1) Do YOU think we need an OF'er
2) Even if you said 'NO' to above, assuming Cashman thinks we do, who/what trade would be the best choice?

I say: Yes (and) Sori or Abreu for Melky and 2 non-Hughes pitchers on the Farm (and Including M.Smith and Beam).

2006-06-22 06:11:09
3.   Sliced Bread
Thanks for hooking up the varitey of links there, Alex. Good stuff all around.

Four two-out hits that resulted in runs last night. Little big hits. Clutch.

Hopefully, the series victory, and Melky's impressive showing in Philadelphia has calmed George's nerves, and stopped him from rummaging through the Terrence Long bin in search of a bargain RBI man.

2006-06-22 06:14:21
4.   Sliced Bread
2 I think Melky's emerging as a keeper. No need to shop for an outfielder in my opinion.
2006-06-22 06:19:13
5.   Shaun P
2 I'm not sure if the Yanks need an OF. Well, they probably do, but I don't think there's anything worthwhile available. I'd rather hold on to all the youngsters, as I think that gives us a better chance at winning in the future.

And before anyone answers singledd's (1) with "yes trade for Jacque Jones" - I give you Twins fan extraordinaire, Aaron Gleeman:

"Speaking of former Twins, apparently the Cubs are just now discovering that Jacque Jones has trouble consistently making good throws from the outfield:

'Right fielder Jacque Jones' throwing problems might be more mental than physical.

"He can't find his release point right now," [manager Dusty] Baker said, preferring not to say a great deal.'

It's certainly possible that Jones' throwing problems are "more mental than physical," but anyone who saw him play in Minnesota knows it's not a "right now" situation. In fact, in writing Jones up for my "Top 40 Minnesota Twins" series I described one of his most memorable traits as "throws from the outfield that were either air-mailed past the catcher or launched directly into the turf."

I think that sums things up nicely, don't you?

2006-06-22 06:22:36
6.   singledd
5 I have it on good authority that Cashman is stumped and will be calling you for your opinion on my question #2. Want to run it by us before you give it to the man?
2006-06-22 06:31:30
7.   Sliced Bread
5 Yeah, that sums it up.

The only upside I can see to Jacque Jones is the impressive numbers he has put up against the top AL contenders (posted in yesterday's "Be Afraid, Very Afraid" thread). He's a .300-plus hitter against Boston, Toronto, White Sox, Oakland, and has racked up more runs against Detroit than any other team he's faced.

His career numbers, as wsporter revealed, bring him back down to T-Long territory, no thank you very much.

Making him even less appealing, the years left on his Cubbie handshake.

2006-06-22 06:37:10
8.   rbj
2 Matsui should be back by Sept. If so, that gives him a month to get ready for October. Sheff, I dunno. But how about a Melky/Bernie combo there?
I'd prefer a starter. Unit's looking better, but now Moose seems to have some problems. Wang's good, but Wright can only go five it seems, and Chacon may have fallen back to earth.
2006-06-22 06:46:59
9.   ChuckM
Jacque Jones couldn't hit a lefty if they threw it to him underhand. No need for another OF you'll have to platoon with as the Yanks already waste enough bench spots.
2006-06-22 06:47:29
10.   bp1
Pitching, pitching, and more pitching.

As we've seen via the Ghost of Post Seasons Past, bats can dry up in a hurry, but if you have good pitching you can still win games.

Look at last year's ALDS w/ California (forever to me, they will be California A's). We led in every single game at some point. Every one, even the Randy Johnson meltdown game. We didn't stop the other team from scoring. That is what cost us the series - not our own scoring. We built leads, but could not keep them. I am confident that Moose/Wang/Johnson will be a good core of post season starters (knock on wood), but I'm afraid the bullpen will be in shambles if we ever make it there.

Again ... pitching, pitching, pitching. Fresh arms. New arms. Strong arms. More arms.

2006-06-22 06:56:24
11.   RichYF
8 After Chacon's first two starts, he was pitching really well. The start directly after the injury was obviously a mistake. I say give him at least a couple more shots before writing him off. It's kind of odd how everyone is just giving up on him and saying "split starts with Wright."

in 4 starts before his injury (4/22 - 5/11)

24.1IP 18H 4R 4ER 14BB

That's a 1.48 ERA and a 1.31 WHIP (if I calculated correctly). The final game (vs. Boston) is the one in which he was injured and he lasted just 4.2 inngings. Chacon is known to walk guys. That's something we've accepted. I'm not saying he will ever be as great as last year, and I obviously took a small sample size on purpose because he looked like he was rolling before the injury. It has slowed him down a bit, but I really don't think he's done. He's probably not 100% yet. He pitched the game after the injury because he wants to get out there and battle.

He's a horse and can be effective past 80 pitches. Wright can't. I don't know why, but he's fine until pitch 70-75. It's sad. He should be the long man, no?

2006-06-22 06:58:30
12.   Shaun P
6 Well, if I have to -

I'd try a package of Sean Henn, Eric Duncan, and a B-grade A-ball pitcher for Abreu. The Phillies want pitching, and Henn is young (25) AND a lefty. Duncan is only 21, and could play his natural position of 3B in the Phillies' system. And the Yanks take Abreu's big contract off Philly's books.

2006-06-22 07:08:48
13.   Sliced Bread
12 If by "B-grade A-Ball pitcher" you mean Pavano (plus $10 million), the Phillies just might listen.
2006-06-22 07:09:27
14.   unpopster
ok, I'll chime in:

Yes, I think we need an OF. I'm not quite sure who is available or who might become available over the next month, but the Melky/KT/Reese/Bubba/Bernie option is a temporary stop-gap, and when I say temporary I don't mean until September. As I've been screaming about over here for the past week, this team is an Arod, Giambi or Posada extended slump away from a sub-par offense. The young kids have definitely chipped in, but none of them are legit run producers and offensive threats, and this team NEEDS a legit run producing corner OF.

As for the pitchers, hear my out about why I think the OF issue is more pressing:

Over here at BB we've all been complaining about how overworked and ineffective some of the middle relief has been lately. Well, rather than trading for another arm, the solution is (drumroll please) OFFENSE. A few blow out wins here and there would allow Torre to insert guys like Smith and Beam in to mop up rather than be forced to consistantly bring in Proctor, Farnsworth and Mo every day. Offensive outburst will save this team's arms...not a trade for a reliever. And also let's not forget that middle relief help is already available in-house, once Dotel is ready to go, Mendoza builds up his arm strength, and a guy named Rasner gets over his shoulder tendinitis. That's three additional arms that might help carry the load.

Moose will be fine, so will The Unit (crossing fingers), Wang is the real deal, and Wright is a good #5 starter. I truly hope that Chacon will find the magic of 2005 but if he doesn't, well then maybe we might be able to trade what will surely be a middle relief surplus for a legit #4 or #5.

So, getting back to OF options, I say NO to Jacque Jones and maybe to Abreu or Burrell. But a look at the standings shows that teams like Atlanta, Cleveland, KC, Washington, and Pittsburgh are dead-in-the-water (division & wildcard). Surely one of these teams would be willing to trade a corner-OF for some yound middle relief arms and maybe some 2nd-tier prospects. In fact, if KC dangled Sanders I'd take him off there hands for the right price.

2006-06-22 07:26:42
15.   RIYank
Need an OFer: no.
Melky and Bernie are hitting well enough now. Looking to September and October (knock on wood), chances are one of the corner OFers returns with some power. No need to deal a potentially good player, let alone an actually good player, for short-term help.
As for the pen: the Yankees have one of the top bullpens in the AL. Bullpen ERA = 3.75, second best in the league, and Slugging Against is just .365, which is tops. (Thanks to David Pinto for featuring those numbers over at Baseball Musings.)
2006-06-22 07:31:54
16.   Shaun P
14 Reggie Sanders, 2006 stats:

Current age: 38
Under contract for 2007 at $5 million
.255/.300/.469 - .769 OPS
196 ABs
9 HRi
13 BB
58 K

I don't deny that more offense would be a good thing, but I don't think getting Reggie Sanders would lead to more offense for the Yanks.

I would, however, be happy with a trade with Pittsburg for Craig Wilson. I'm just not sure the Yanks' supply matches up with the Pirates' need. Though Littlefield has made some bone-headed moves before . . .

2006-06-22 07:36:32
17.   Shaun P
13 As crazy as it sounds to put any stock in Pavano ever pitching in the bigs again, Sliced, I think the Yanks should hold on to him. I just have this feeling that he might be useful on the field in pinstripes . . . I really don't know why, but there you go.
2006-06-22 07:39:49
18.   Jeteupthemiddle
I don't think we need an outfielder, however, I think the Yankees will trade for Craig Wilson.
2006-06-22 07:42:25
19.   Bama Yankee
2 I'm not sure we need a corner OF with Matsui expected back in Sept and I agree with 8 that a Bernie/Melky combo could suffice. However, you did ask to throw out some ideas. How about Andruw Jones? Not sure who we would have to give up but the upside to Andruw is that he could play CF and allow Damon to move to RF. I realize that Damon does not have the arm for RF but we have him for a few more years and by then he might not have the wheels for CF. Jones could possibly replace Sheff's power numbers and help upgrade our defense. Hey, it's a long shot but you said to throw something out there....
2006-06-22 07:46:42
20.   JL25and3
12 That sure would be a nice trade. 25 isn't all that young for a pitcher who's pitching OK - no better - in AAA. Eric Duncan has no trade value right now - aside from one good month in the AFL he looks completely overmatched as a pro, Drew Henson all over again. Even if the Yankees pick up salary, I'd be astonished if the Phillies can't do better.

14 Dotel, Mendoza and Rasner are castles in the air at this point. We really have no iidea when or if Dotel and Rasner will be back - all those optimistic reports about Dotel don't count for much anymore, not when he's going to see Dr. James Andrews today. And we don't know if any of the three are effective major leaguers this year.

The way I see it, the Yankees need help in the starting rotation, the bullpen and the outfield, and they have very little of value to offer anyone.

2006-06-22 07:47:53
21.   Sliced Bread
17 I also maintain unjustified optimism re: Pavano. Maybe it's because my dad and I took a Stadium tour the warm December '04 day he was introduced in pinstripes. It's easy to get laughs at his expense right now, or develop kidney stones thinking about him, depending on your disposition.

Bottomline to me is the area where the Yanks most require help/improvement is pitching.
The Yanks rank 2nd in the AL in runs scored, 404 to White Sox 415. The team batting avg. of .286 is 3rd in the AL. They have the best OBP in the AL. Where they are "lacking" is slugging percentage. They have the 6th best slugging percentage in the AL, slighly ahead of Boston's.

An RBI guy would help but consider team pitching stats: the Yanks are ranked 9th and look very similar to the Dodgers who are 10th in the Majors.

2006-06-22 07:48:02
22.   Fred Vincy
Obviously, it would be nice to have a better 3rd OFer, but it's decidedly not worth top prospects. Dayn Perry does an analysis of deadline deals in Winners and shows that they almost never make the difference because there just aren't enough games left. Even if you could get Abreu by July 1, and even if you believe that Melky is only replacement level, that's probably worth only 3 wins. Sure, I'd give up Duncan and Henn for that, but anything that's less in our favor is not worth doing.
2006-06-22 07:48:15
23.   ChuckM
I may be a little off on this, but I believe Wilson is pretty much a lefty-masher. Put him and Jacque into one ballplayer and we may have found ourselves an OF.
2006-06-22 07:48:39
24.   unpopster
16 but see, Sanders is EXACTLY the kind of guy that the Yanks can use...low-priced veteran OF with pop. Hear me out:

Sanders can provide a legit run-producing bat as a corner OF and pinch-hitter. And once Shef or Matsui return, he can be a veteran pinch hitter with power coming off the bench, something the Yanks don't currently have.

As for his $5mm salary owed to him in 2007, who here thinks the Yanks wouldn't be able to eat at least half of it and trade him in the offseason. Me thinks a veteran, power hitter for $2.5mm would be something that might be enticing to another team.

2006-06-22 07:50:13
25.   RIYank
19 Isn't Jones going to be a free agent this winter? I like him a lot, but I'd rather see the Bombers overpay for him than give up top prospects and then still have to sign him again in the off season.

The US has just tied the match against Ghana shortly before the half -- it's now 1-1, and Italy is ahead 1-0 in its match. The Americans can advance by winning, as long as Italy holds its lead...

2006-06-22 07:51:18
26.   RIYank
Oh, man, that was too quick -- Ghana retakes the lead in stoppage time. The US chances are not looking good.
2006-06-22 07:51:55
27.   vockins
In other news, it seems Larry Brown finally got the boot and Thomas is the new head coach.

I'm wondering if the Knicks will exist in five years...

2006-06-22 07:53:08
28.   Fred Vincy
And let's remember that a hot month or two aside, Soriano had a .265 road OBP in 2005 and .291 in 2004 -- a year's worth of ABs where he couldn't get on base 30% of the time in neutral AL parks. And he has a career postseason OPS of 623 (in 146 AB with 45 Ks). Again, I'd love to have him cheap but I'd hate to pay through the nose for the best 2 months of his career (which Washington just enjoyed).
2006-06-22 07:59:02
29.   Dimelo
I just read the Larry Brown news....what the F- has happened to my KNICKS!?!?!?!?!? I can't stand Zeek, the Dolans, Starbury, I thought only dysfunctional franchises existed in the Royals and Nationals. I know some of you probably could care less about the Knicks and the NBA, but this is a black eye for NY Sports. I hope they all rot in hell....they f'ing deserve each other.
2006-06-22 08:05:54
30.   BobbyBaseBall
18 Can't Wilson also catch? I haven't seen his fielding/hitting splits when he's behind th plate, but that might be a nice asset, moving Jorge to DH for some games without having to deal with Stinnet for extended periods.

29 I was weened on the mid-90s resurgance of the Knicks, and have one of those "Where were you moments" when Ewing missed the finger roll vs. the Pacers. Just as we sometimes joke about Proctor (or Tanyon) having compromising pictures of Torre, Isiah must have something he's blackmailing Dolan with.

2006-06-22 08:08:43
31.   Bama Yankee
26 It's time for a "Miracle on Grass" (and I'm not talking about Rickey Williams and his CFL success).
2006-06-22 08:11:20
32.   wsporter
I think we need an outfielder and I'm in the get more offense camp but I don't see us doing anything beyond a Reggie Sanders type right now. I'd like to get either Abreu or Sori but I don't want to give up what we would have to in order to get them. I'm not as crazy to get pitching as some of the analysts are for two reasons: The pitching that would help us would cost so much that obtaining it may be at best a lateral move and the pitching we could acquire affordably is no better than what we have.

Someone said a while ago that they would rather not make the playoffs this year than surrender the best parts of the farm and the young players on the 25 man roster for a couple of months rent-a-player. I have come to agree with that. Robbie, Wang and Hughes are going to be very exciting in the years to come. I'd just as soon they are exciting here as elsewhere.

2006-06-22 08:11:24
33.   mikeplugh
1. No offensive players. If we must, I say Daryl Strawberry.

2. The reason soccer sucks (actually I love soccer) is that fouls are more arbitrary than in any other sport. Basketball floppers like Vlade Divac can be like Pele in soccer.

3. Someone find Isiah Thomas in a dark alley and beat him with a rotten banana peel. I hate him with all my sports heart and Dolan too. I hope they finish in last again this year and the Rockettes go on strike.

Go get John Smoltz.

2006-06-22 08:21:51
34.   Bama Yankee
25 I think Andruw will be a free agent after the 2007 season. The Braves would need an outfield to replace him, they need a closer and they are looking for a right handed 1B to platoon with LaRoche. Maybe we could send them Melky (or Bubba, they would love the name Bubba down there in Hot-lanta), Farnsworth and Phillips.
2006-06-22 08:23:15
35.   wsporter
33 Mike, which players do you want to give Atlanta for Smoltz?

I watch these soccer players writhe in pain after being poked, prodded and brushed. My mind wanders onto a scene where one has been hit in the arm with a 90 mile an hour fastball. There are many tears and it's not pretty.

2006-06-22 08:25:07
36.   Sliced Bread
32 If the Yanks and Wright would be willing to make him the long man (ironic job title for him), acquiring another sturdy #4/#5 type starter would be a HUGE help.
That's maybe not as easy to find as a Reggie Sanders, but not impossible for Cashman.
2006-06-22 08:25:09
37.   Count Zero
Just say "NO" to bad trades for veteran outfielders, please.

12 If the Phils would do that deal with you, they are one step away from hiring Isiah Thomas as their GM.

14 My problem with this theory is that I don't think any of the people we can get is going to produce a number of blowout wins. One or two maybe -- but two games will not save the bullpen from wearing out.

16 Agree. One HR / 20 not bad but we're talking a righty here. Bats RH + Yankee Stadium + 1 HR / 20 ABs = Reggie Sanders good for about 6 more HRs after the break. Not going to make any real difference.

Pitching, pitching, pitching. I am fully prepared to stay the course with Melky and Bernie until Matsui returns. The only exception I would make would be for Abreu and I don't really believe that's doable without losing Wang or Cano or at least Hughes -- none of which I'm willing to accept.

2006-06-22 08:27:06
38.   bp1
21 I'm with ya, Sliced, on the Pavano front. I keep my fingers crossed, just in case. I laugh at the jokes, but hold out hope he'll come back and be a productive member of the rotation.

Then again - I'm also the guy who thought Kevin Brown would snap out of his funk and pitch like the great player he once was.

Forever the optimist, I guess. Or the fool. Sometimes it's hard to tell the two apart.

2006-06-22 08:27:22
39.   Bama Yankee
35 The Braves would surely insist on Wang or Hughes in a Smoltz trade.
2006-06-22 08:31:45
40.   wsporter
36 Slice, I agree. But who and what whould we have to give to get it? It seems that Cash could acquire Jason Johnson types. What would that get us. We could get Hernandez from DC but Bowden wants the moon and the stars for him. After we give him the moon and the stars are we any better?
2006-06-22 08:34:31
41.   monkeypants
37 "I am fully prepared to stay the course with Melky and Bernie until Matsui returns."

OK, we are kidding ourselves if we think Matsui returns this season in any reasonable playing form.

2006-06-22 08:39:25
42.   Sliced Bread
{40] I think Shaun P picked our best trade bait out of the bucket: Duncan and Henn. I'd be willing to part with those guys to help the Yanks land a young(ish) #4/#5 type starter.
2006-06-22 08:45:05
43.   Jeteupthemiddle
40 Jason Johnson was picked up by the Red Sox...I'd rather he be there than on my team.

41 By all accounts, Matsui is ahead of schedule with his rehab, so he may be ready by August....which gives him a good month to be ready for the post season.

2006-06-22 08:45:44
44.   wsporter
39 Exactly and that's why I wouldn't do it.

I just don't see us doing anything earth shattering or least not for a while. As I see things right now teams that are dead in the water don't want to admit that fact to their fan base in mid June (Atlanta, Nats). If they move their "star" players for our unknown A Ball prospects they will be making an admission they don't wish to make. Therefore they can hold those guys or move them for known players that they can sell as being able to contribute immediately and help in the future. In our case those known players are Robbie, Wang, Melky and to a certain extent Hughes, Duncan Thompson Beam, Smith and Henn. The Yankees aren't likely to give up the first 3 or 4 in that group. To get a player well above replacement level it may continue to be necessary to give those players up in the coming month.

In my opinion as we move closer to the trade dead-line and the season begins to wane lesser known players and players lower in the system move into play. The Tabata's, Jackson's, Marquez's, Ehlers', Gardner's, Vechi's and White's will enter the discussion as centerpieces. Is giving up on that young talent worth bringing in a player that is marginally above replacement level for what will be essentially a two month rental? I say no and I really don't see that happening.

I'm not saying we won't or shouldn't make trades but I am saying that we should not be willing to gut our core of young players for a rental, a limited offensive upgrade or replacement level or aged arm.

Sorry for the dissertation.

2006-06-22 08:53:10
45.   wsporter
42 Slice, are you going to pick up anyone better than Wright. Would a Wright/Henn #5/long man combo or some other commbination we already have with Wright be any worse than what you would obtain by trading both Henn and Duncan. Sure be willing to do it but let's make sure it improves the overall product.

Who are we talking about? That combination won't be enough to move Hernandez out of DC for example and I'm not sure he's better than what we already have. Not this year anyway...

2006-06-22 08:55:38
46.   Bob B
Another starter or strong arm in the Pen is THE Priority right now. That, and a Psychologist for Wright and Chacon to get them to pitch more than 5 innings. Unfortunately, every team in baseball needs strong healthy arms right now and the price is going to be very high for them. Too bad we stocked the White Sox and Astros with our old pitching staff.I'd even have liked El Duque back in pinstripes rather than across town.
2006-06-22 09:03:08
47.   Schteeve
2 it's all relative. Would it be nice to have a solid defensive outfielder with respectable OPS? Yep it sure would, I think we have to assume no further contribution from Matsui this season, which leaves Johnny Gamer, as our most potent offensive outfielder, and that's not a great thing.


I believe firmly that with a core or Jeter, Damon, Giambi, A-Rod and Posada, along with timely contributions from the likes of Andy Phillips, Bernie, Melky and Cano, our offense is good enough to hang with anyone in the postseason, as long as the pitching consistently keeps the other team below 5 runs a game. In order to do that, I'd suggest the following as the season matures:

1) Keep Randy on a short leash. When he's bad, he's bad. When he's good he's good, he's not one of those "one bumpy inning" guys.

2) If possible get another #4 or #5 type starter because I don't believe in Chacon's magic anymore.

3) Use the bullpen skillfully. If I was Torre, the only thing I'd think about for the rest of the year is a) how to best tactically employ the pen and b) how to pace the pen given the fact that Proctor's already thrown a sh*tload of innings, and that our starters for the most part are not innings eaters.

So, here's what I want to find out:

First, how bad is Dotel's setback and what's the timeline for finding out what he's got? Second what's the deal with Ramiro Mendoza. Third, is there a league average releiver who is durable and capable of pitching a lot of innings, available. If Torre sticks with the "Joe's guys" and "hot hands" strategy of bullpen deployment, we may not get to the post season. And if we do, I don't think we'll last long.

In short, I think adding an outfielder should be a priority, but definitely not at the top of the list.

2006-06-22 09:24:21
48.   monkeypants
43 Good news if true, but I'll believe it when I see it. And even if Matsui does return, do we want to use the last month of the season as Spring Training II so he can prep for the playoffs? That assumes the team even makes the playoffs...
2006-06-22 09:37:45
49.   mehmattski
I agree with those who say that pitching is the top priority. Postseason victories are more correlated with regular season pitching success than with offensive success. Further, I believe it would be unwise to give up the substantial amount required to obtain a player that is a meaningful improvement over what we have now. Reggie Sanders, Jacque Jones, (and not really Craig Wilson either) are not that kind of impact player. It would require a David Justice kind of deal to get anyone better, and many people here consider that a dark day for the Yankees.

No, pitching is the issue, just as it was last year. Remember, we did win the division with the likes of Darrel May and Al Leiter, in addition to Chacon and Small. What Cashman needs to do is make a cheap trade for a guy who can come in and eat innings every fifth day. Someone who takes the pressure off the bullpen, is consistent (even if it means mediocre). The Angels have some extra starters...

On the minor league front, I hear a lot about Mendoza at Columbus, but Kris Wilson has a 2.94 ERA in 12 starts, with a 64:14 K:BB ratio. His ERA is below his career trends but the strikeouts have always been there. Is he worth a shot?

2006-06-22 09:59:06
50.   Sliced Bread
The pitching solution: Dan Rather.
Released this week by CBS after 44 years at the network.
He's older than the combined age of most starting rotations, has lost more than a little off his fastball, therefore, he fits the Yankee pitching profile perfectly.
Danno's from Houston, which could spark a bidding war for his services.
No doubt, the Astros would let him stay home when they're on the road, a concession the Yanks would be unwilling to make.
But Steinbrenner might be crazy enough to do it. He'd be sticking it to CBS again. Remember, George purchased the Yanks from CBS in '73 and look how that investment turned out for him.
Plus, if Bob Sheppard goes down with a hip injury again Dan could be a swell replacement.

Off days make me crazy.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-06-22 10:02:23
51.   Chyll Will
Hmm, if what Cashman is saying about being stuck up for top prospects every time he makes a calls is true, then why are we so busy putting our own system down? Couldn't any of these prospects help us now, being that we're kinda iffy to reach the playoffs as it is? Whether they do or don't, it's much the same as borrowing a protential free agent or taking on a salary dump of OPP (am I allowed to say that still?) I think the only trade we need to make, if at all, would be a trade of philosophies by Mr. Torre and company.

By the way, on current events of another issue; even getting rid of Isaiah when he's finally undressed in front of Dolan next season will not solve the Knicks' problems. The ownership appears to be so committed to their lies that they just might keep him out of spite to common sense. How many self-indulgent (if not embarressing) owners have been run out of baseball over the years, while basketball continues to revel in ownership sociopathy? Naive I guess, but i wish it wasn't just about da benjamins.

Sorry to rant about a non-babseball issue, but seeing as a few others here already mentioned it...

2006-06-22 10:03:59
52.   Chyll Will
50 That's the perfect storm! >;)
2006-06-22 10:14:01
53.   Sliced Bread
Make it a double. Mike Wallace (Father Time) recently retired from "60 Minutes."
Keep the kids! Mike and Dan is the plan.
2006-06-22 10:15:34
54.   wsporter
51 Chyll, I'm not trying to be argumentative but who in the Yankee organization is putting the system down? I haven't heard it. We've been talking for months about how it's underrated here.

I'm not sure that many of the valuable prospects are ready to help now. Hughes is 19 and learning how to pitch to professional hitters. Duncan is in neutral and the kids at A ball are too young. Gardner could be an option sooner than people think.

I think your point illustrates the delema Cashman is experiencing. The players other teams want are not quite ready but may be ready soon. Yet, they can't help us right now. If he gives them up to get help for this season those kids may be better major leaguers than what he receives in the short run and better for a lot less money.

It's a lousy spot to be in.

2006-06-22 10:18:27
55.   singledd
Moderator (Kidding): For the sake of this Post, its not OF -or- PITCHER. Lets just say that Cashman WILL get an OF'er. Lets help him decide. ALSO: QUESTION: If we get a pitcher that lowers the team ERA 1/3 of a run, is that much different then getting an OF'er that increases our Runs Scored by 1/3 of a run?

I believe CASH will ALSO get a pitcher. I don't think it's either-or, but about the best deal we can swing. Pitchers are simply harder to get, and there is more competition for them.

Again, I'm not debating which is more
needed, just getting ideas for WHO we get as an OF'er, and HOW. Cash is laying low so he can swoop in. Remember Cashman declaring: "Bubba is our CF'er"

More of my 2 cents.
Jones certainly won't due. Don't think Sanders or Wilson are enough... we need to get a considerable upgrade over Bernie/Melky/Bubba or it's not worth losing any talent.

12 We are on the same page.

14 Very good point. Atlanta has some 'this year' talent we could use, and I think are in rebuild mode. Might take some A or AA guys in trade. A. Jones would be great.

43 I'm not a doctor but I'm told wrist injuries linger quite a while (ask Nomar and any other player who has had one), and considering both Mats and Shef offer little defense or speed, unless their bats are 95+%, they won't help much.

46 Might not Dotel, Smith, Beam and Mendoza help us there?

47 Yes, our O is still very good as is, but in the PS we will probably be facing pitching MUCH better then ours (Oakland, White Sox, Pedro and Glavine). Our offense has to be substancially better to overcome our 'underdog' pitching.

I think we have some POSSIBLE upside to our pitching.

1) As mentioned above, Dotel, Smith, Beam and Mendoza
2) Randy pitching like he has in the last 4 of 5 games
3) Pavano being a decent #4 or #5
4) Wright going 7 innings. Aside from one outing, he had been pretty good in his last starts
5) Chacon SHOULD get better. He ain't an ace, but I don't think he has hit his groove since being injured.

While there is possible upside as mentioned above, I don't think Bernie, Bubba, Melky or KT are gonna give us much more then we've seen already. Bernie is the slightest injury from going back to a .700 OPS guy. Damon is tough, but he could get hurt (he already is) at any time.

Can we REALLY be in the World Series with 2 of our 3 OF'ers being Bernie/Melky/Bubba/KT?
Seems really scary to me.

2006-06-22 10:22:04
56.   rbj
If Atlanta's serious about trading Andruw and Smoltz, I'd package Wright or Chacon plus Farnsworth, and Duncan (as his name's cropped up here already) and Melky.
I do not under any circumstances trade Wang, Hughes or Cano. Melky's fun to watch, but I'd trade him in the right situation. Next year's OF would be Matsui, Damon, A. Jones (who I think could be resigned to keep playing in NY -- Stein's got the $$$). Not too shabby.
The only downside is limping by with a Bernie/Bubba platoon, but I think Andruw Jones can compensate.

I don't care much for basketball, but is it Isiah Thomas' goal in life to destroy as many teams as possible? He already obliterated one league and he seems hellbent on doing the same for the Knickerbockers.

2006-06-22 10:24:24
57.   joejoejoe
Isn't Darin Erstad a Torre favorite? I'm looking at the slumping Angels and thinking he might be one of the OFs in the mix as a cheap (in prospects) fix. You could have an Old and Older platoon with Bernie.
2006-06-22 10:24:49
58.   Shaun P
If I was a betting man, I'd bet that Cashman holds on to the better chips on the farm. He knows a good farm system is the only way to compete in the future, and I think that's his top goal.

That's also why I suggested trading the likes of Henn and Duncan. They have enough attributes about them that they might be valuable enough to other teams to get something decent in return. At the same time, losing them doesn't really hurt the system. That's a win-win, I think.

2006-06-22 10:28:40
59.   Shaun P
57 You're kidding, right joe? Please tell me you're kidding. Forget Erstad's .220/.273/.319 line - as I understand things, his health is a huge question mark.
2006-06-22 10:28:57
60.   Schteeve
singledd: You're thinking is a bit myopic. You are assuming that we need a run machine at corner OF because that's the custom. What isn't the custom though is to have a middle IFr as productive as Jeter, or a catcher as productive as Posada or a 1B as productive as Giambi, or a 3B as productive as Rodriguez.

Most teams don't have that. So while the White Sox get Run Creation from their corner outfield spots, Juan Uribe is no Jeter, and Crede is no A-Rod, and AJ is no Posada.

You're worried about where the runs come from, I contend that regardless of where the come from, they will come. Unless the opposition gameplans our lineup to perfection.

2006-06-22 10:36:00
61.   singledd
FYI: Comparisons for OPS
AL: (42 OF'ers) JD, Bernie, Melky are 17th, 22nd and 30th (if Melky qualified)... and that's with a HOT Bernie. Averages out to 45th percentile.

MLB: (90 OF'ers) JD, Bernie, Melky are 29th, 44th and 65th. Averages out to 49th percentile.

In 2005 for the AL: Shef, Mats and JD were 3rd, 5th and 11th.

We have fallen a long way without ShefSui.

2006-06-22 10:38:46
62.   singledd
56 I agree, and I think so does Cashman. Wang, Hughes or Cano are untouchable, as is Posada. Everyone else is expendable. Also, is it possible Melky was called up instead of a Kevin to 'exhibit him', so we could swap him and others for an OF'er?
2006-06-22 10:39:37
63.   Peter
55 Can we REALLY be in the World Series with 2 of our 3 OF'ers being Bernie/Melky/Bubba/KT?

The Yanks couldn't even win last year's ALDS with 2 of the 3 OF being Matsui and Sheff. I doubt we're going to find a replacement near the caliber of either of those guys (and if so, at what cost?). I'd rather see the Yanks focus on pitching. When Matsui comes back, a Matsui/Damon/Melky OF will be more than fine.

As for pitching, can't Cashman force Torre's hand and have him work some of the young arms into games? Maybe we can get a 5th man from Columbus. It worked with Wang last year.

2006-06-22 10:43:20
64.   singledd
60. No Schteeve, I'm really not. I'm comparing our current OF to the one we started the year with. I'd be OK with high OBP and good 'D', as opposed to sluggers. I Just don't think we can ignor the .300 OPS/50 or so HRs we have lost.

Our infield is set. We can't improve our O by swapping infielders. OF is the only place we can improve.

2006-06-22 10:45:39
65.   joejoejoe
59 I'm not recommending it. I was just looking at the rosters of the losing teams. I seem to remember Torre gushing over Erstad but that might have been in the late-90s. I can't believe Erstad's only 32. He seems like he's been around forever but he's the same age as Jeter. I was just tossing another name into the garbage bin of old OFs available for B-level talent.

I think the best trading chip the Yankees have is Cano. A cheap team like the Twins might part with Luis Castillo, Brad Radke for Cano and Pavano if the Yankees eat a little cash.

2006-06-22 10:52:03
67.   Chyll Will
54 Fair enough and good point. I suppose no one here has criticized the farm system, as opposed to the reports that have been related and discussed here. Yes, this is the glass half-full or half-empty quandry. Do you have enough with what's available to be consistently strong contenders while we wait for those prospects to arrive in a few years, or do you go for it now and hope retool during the off-season? I think that last choice has only worked to get the team into the playoffs, and not to the ultimate goal, that's why if it were me I'd hold onto my chips and wait for the posse to arrive.

The way I see it, the draft is enough of a gamble; (ostensibly) player development should be a bigger part of the equation when it comes to a team's success overall; and even if every single team were on the same page with that philosophy, at least the games would be more competetive.

That said, sorry for trampling on your stipulations 55 if you have the type of talent that people are asking for all over the league, why not stick them up as well? Ichiro, for example; good arm in right field, good defense, makes contact and has pop when necessary, put him in the lineup either leading off, number three or directly behind A-Rod so they both see good pitches and that should take care of the offense, if not the offensive requests.

2006-06-22 10:52:08
68.   Schteeve
64 sdd, Yanks are 2nd in Runs scored this year. They are averaging 5.77 runs per game this season. And they haven't had Matsui or Sheff for most of it.

They're #1 in OBP, #2 in OPS.

But if you look at the starting pitchers they are middle of the pack in ERA and avg against. They are in the bottom third of the AL for starter IPs. That means great reliance on the bullpen. Ask Scott Proctor. We can go deep into the postseason with the offense we have. I don't know if we even make it to the postseason with the pitching we have and more importantly with the way we use the pitching we have.

2006-06-22 10:53:17
69.   singledd
65 I love Cano and he IS a future batting champ. But your thoughts are creative, and replacing Cano with a BIG bat OF'er and an average bat/very good defense 2nd baseman might be an improvement. Cashman appreciates your input.
2006-06-22 10:59:24
70.   singledd
54"It's a lousy spot to be in."
In New Hampshire, we say 'Caught between a rock and a hard place'. You have summed up our position well.

I did hear a report about the number of minor leaguers who make it to the show, and what percent have a real impact. It was VERY low. Takes a LOT of maybes on the farm to product one solid major-leaguer.
Teams with small payrolls HAVE to take that chance. A team rebuilding might take prospects that are still 2-3 years away.

2006-06-22 11:00:41
71.   singledd
68 Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think we are now averaging more then 1 run/game LESS then we did with ShefSui.
2006-06-22 11:01:59
72.   bp1
68 You hit the nail on the head. Even if the team clubs its way to the post season like last year, the bullpen will filled with mentally exhausted zombies with shrivelled up sticks for arms by that point.

Except for Mo, of course, who as we have previously acknowledged has close relatives on Krypton. The Panama thing is just a cover.

Wouldn't it be something if Pavano rode in on his big white stallion and was this season's savior, ala Small and Chacon last year?

Too late to bring back Leiter?


2006-06-22 11:12:06
73.   jedi
Pavano talk/news is just as annoying to hear once a week as Baseball Nooz's guaranteed spam posts.
2006-06-22 11:14:00
74.   Sliced Bread
72 I think you nailed it there, BP. That's why Mo didn't pitch for Panama in the WBC. Didn't want to dis his family and friends on Krypton.
2006-06-22 11:21:09
75.   JL25and3
I don't think they should make any major move unless it's for someone who would make a major impact. Reggie Sanders or a better 5th starter aren't going to make this a championship team. I don't think there's any pitcher out there who'd make enough of an impact to be worth it; if they got an outfielder, anything less than Abreu or Andruw would be a waste of resources. And in any case, I seriously doubt whether they have the chips to make a deal for a top-flight player.
2006-06-22 11:28:44
76.   unpopster
I have a dream and this is it:

Brian Cashman does indeed read BB and takes our thoughts/recommendations into consideration. One day he reaches out to Cliff or Alex and asks to meet all of us, that is the frequent posters to BB, for a roundtable. We all agree, have a sit down, and suddenly we (Alex, Cliff, singledd, rbj, wsporter, et al) are on the great Steinbrenner payroll as "consultants," occasionally getting called into the bowels of Yankee Stardium to meet with the brainstrust and voice our opinions.

Ok, I am now waking up.

2006-06-22 11:34:46
77.   Shaun P
55 63 These were the OPS+ for the primary OFs of one NL team that played in the World Serious recently:

LF - 126 (in only 350 ABs)
CF - 100
RF - 101

None of the backups who had over 100 ABs had an OPS+ over 100.

My point being, if the rest of your lineup can perform way above positional average AND your pitching staff can be above average too, then its at least possible to get to the Serious with sub-par outfield production.

2006-06-22 11:35:07
78.   Schteeve
71 I'm running those numbers right now. I'll post them shortly.
2006-06-22 11:39:35
79.   Dimelo
76 Doood, where's that bong? I need a hit. Work is dragging and I could use a hit or two.
2006-06-22 11:56:22
80.   rbj
LOL unpopster
2006-06-22 11:57:26
81.   Chyll Will
76 Did you see an apprentice or two in the shadows? I would dig that...
2006-06-22 12:01:44
82.   Schteeve
71 You're wrong.

Yankees total season avg. Runs per game (RPG):5.77

Yankees April avg. RPG= 6.26

Sheffield has basically been gone since the end of April collecting only 32 ABs in 8 games since.

Then Matsui went down on May 12. On May 12th the Yankees RPG was down to 6.0.

Since losing Matsui the Yanks RPG is 5.67. So we're down about half a run a game without those two guys. Still significantly better than every team in the AL except the White Sox.

Cleveland for example is third in the AL in runs scored at 5.5 per game.

Scoring runs ain't our problem.

What is interesting is that in the 33 games before we lost both Matsui and Sheff we scored more than 7 runs in almost 40% per cent of our games.

Since losing them (37 games), we've only scored 7+ runs 24 per cent of the time. So one hypothesis could be that the value that Matsui and Sheff had seems to be in "pile on" runs. Because the average number of runs scored per game doesn't vary that widely, and the W-L record bears that out up until May 12th the Yankees had won 60% of their games. Since losing Sheffsui, they are 15-9 a 63% winning percentage.

So again, I don't think we need hitters.

2006-06-22 12:05:07
83.   Schteeve
I'm of course wrong in the last paragraph. Since losing both Sheff and Matsui the Yankees winning percentage has dropped from 60% to 54%. 20-17.
2006-06-22 12:08:13
84.   Jeteupthemiddle
I don't think we need hitters, but I also don't think we need another 4th or 5th starter.

We have several 4th and 5th starters(if Johnson is awful...though, I am encouraged by his last 3 starts). One more back of the rotation starter isn't going to make much of a difference for this team...regardless of inning eating or whatnot.

What we need is another front of the line starter...which, quite frankly, isn't going to happen.

So, instead of trading all of our chips (and literally, all of our chips) for a rental front starter (Willis, Zito, whatever) it is probably easier to trade for an upgrade in offense.

Like someone said before, instead of improving the number of runs saved by 1/3, increae the number of runs scored by 1/3 for the same results, and for less chips.

But again, I don't think we need to trade for anything. I am perfectly happy standing pat. Although, I still think that they will trade for Craig Wilson.

2006-06-22 12:10:01
85.   Jeteupthemiddle
83 But what is the new winning percentage of teams we've faced since Matsui and Sheffield both went down? I remember May was absolutely brutal, and we came through fine.

June, however, consisted of the Red Sox and not so good teams (?).

2006-06-22 12:11:55
86.   Schteeve
And more glaring than a half a run per game drop without Matsui and Sheffield is the fact that average runs allowed per game has gone from 4.24 pre-Sheffsui's demise to 5.2 post their demise.
2006-06-22 12:13:04
87.   Schteeve
Jeteup the middle, I'm at work so I can't waste any more time building Yankee spreadsheets, but maybe someone else can look at that or I'll do it later.
2006-06-22 12:30:13
88.   Alex Belth
Hey Yo,
Sorry I haven't been able to join the conversation today, but work has kept me busy. Also, I hate to be off-topic, but I've had this mantra repeating in my head all day long. It goes something like:

"I hate the Knicks, I hate the Knicks, I hate the Knicks, I hate the Knicks, I hate the Knicks, I hate the Knicks, I hate the Knicks, I hate the Knicks, I hate the Knicks, I hate--silly, isn't it?--the Knicks, I hate Isiah Thomas, I hate Isiah Thomas, I hate Jim Dolen, I hate Jim Dolen, I hate Jim Dolen, etc."

Just needed to get that off my chest. Now back to the Yanks!

2006-06-22 12:38:04
89.   Schteeve
I gave up on the Knicks about two years ago, and since then I disavow any knowledge of the NBA. I suggest you all follow suit.
2006-06-22 12:39:45
90.   Dimelo
I think the Yankees need a new team. Is it possible they can dig up Gherig and Ruth? The 1927 version obviously. Get Nettles to play 3rd, Jeter at SS, Randolph at 2nd, DiMaggio and Mantle at CF and LF, and Munson behind the plate. I think that'll give us the all-star lineup we would all be happy with. How about pitching? Does a staff of Guidry, Lefty Gomez, Whitey Ford, Clemens and Larsen (for one game in the serious), we have Mo come and close it out and we should be all set. With that lineup we can even ask the 2006 version of Bernie to be on the team too. We need somebody to pick on.

We can have McCarthy manage, Huggins be the bench coach, and Torre be the bullpen catcher.
Some people here want Torre as far away from any decision making as possible, maybe we move him up to the YES booth if we find that being the bullpen catcher forces him to overwork pitchers on their side days.

That should give us the complete team we all want.

We can't have it all.....there are a million ways we can make the team better, BUT....will we ever be happy?

2006-06-22 12:40:52
91.   Dimelo
88 Just when I was trying to forget....they keep pulling me back in.
2006-06-22 12:41:39
92.   C2Coke
Knicks? What Knicks? As far as I'm concerned, NYC has been without a NBA team for quite some time now. There is so much more hope coming from Shea.

All in all, thank god for the Yankees.

2006-06-22 12:45:47
93.   Schteeve
90 Torre as bullpen catcher would be so funny.

Manager to Torre: Alright kid go warm up Villone.

Torre: No can do, Skip.

Manager: What the hey?? Well then warm up that Matt Smith kid.

Torre: Sorry, Skip can't do that either.

Manager: Well what about Beam, or hell even Rasner.

Torre: Not today skip, today, I'm warming up Proctor.

2006-06-22 13:03:31
94.   Bama Yankee
90 Donnie should play first and let Gehrig DH. What about Goose and Yogi?
2006-06-22 13:06:50
95.   wsporter
Re: The clowns in orange and blue.
One of the things I find so amusing is the little war between Cablevision/MSG and Yes/Nets/Yankees. When there is some little disaster in Yankeeville MSG screams and crows about it from the rooftops with banner head lines on MSG. YES seems to rather almost ignore all things Knicks/Ranger/MSG. I guess it represents two different and competing philosophies about how to screw thy neighbor.

What I find so humorous today is the MSG page concerning the firing of Larry Brown. This whole thing has been an unmitigated disaster from hiring to firing. From looking at the page you'd think Isaiah and Jimbo did nothing more than stub their respective toes. It's very funny. I seriously wonder if Jerry Jones couldn't walk into a bar in Manhattan and pull out ten guys who could individually run the Knicks better than Isaiah and JD.

This is kind of/sort of how it felt around here in the late 60's and early 70's. Except the people were a lot nicer, the money was no where near as grotesque and there just wasn't the air of Marie Antoinette style extravagant waste.

2006-06-22 13:33:37
96.   Dimelo
94 Yogi is busy doing commercials, Goose would never share the closer's role with a one inning closer. Reggie can DH.
2006-06-22 13:47:27
97.   Bama Yankee
96 Good point. We could use Goose as the guy we bring in to retaliate after Jeter gets hit. How about Righetti as the lefty out of the pen?
2006-06-22 14:04:49
98.   Max
I've pretty much been a fan of West Coast basketball for the last 7 or 8 years, with the exception of the Shaq-Kobe Lakers. The Knicks simply haven't existed in my universe for quite a while now, though the train wreck at the Garden is so unbelievably gruesome it defies description.

I'm pulling for the Suns and Spurs next year and I hope they both beat the Knicks by 40+ points when they visit the Garden. And hoping that a tsunami will wash away Isaiah and Dolan for good...along with Starbury, Francis, and all the other me-first clowns on the club.

2006-06-22 14:12:55
99.   YankeeInMichigan
97 No, I'd go with Sparky.
2006-06-22 14:27:38
100.   wsporter
97 99 Sparky or Rags? Wow. Hemlock or strychnine? Either way pretty deadly.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-06-22 14:30:18
101.   vockins
When I posted that I wondered if the Knicks would be around in five years, I wasn't being facetious.

If the Nets come in to Brooklyn, win a championship and Dolan keeps running the Knicks into the ground, I could see that franchise ending up in Vegas or something.

2006-06-22 14:33:28
102.   randym77
Steven Goldman has an interesting article in the NY Sun today, called, "Bernie's Indian Summer Should Not Delude Yankees":

His analysis of Bernie's surge is fascinating. Many (including me) have been saying that he looks like the Bernie of old. Goldman demurs:

>> Williams is batting .362/.371/.672 in June, which is good enough for right field or any other position you might name.

Of course, Williams was never that kind of hitter, and it's unlikely he's found untapped reserves of power at age 37. In fact, Williams isn't hitting like he used to in any way - his younger version had a higher on-base average thanks to his good eye at the plate. With 13 walks all season, Williams is no longer working the count. He's just getting his pitch and letting it rip, doing all of his hitting on the first or second pitch of his at bats. <<

How odd. Usually, it's BA that declines first, then power, and the eye is the last to go. For Bernie this season, it appears to be the opposite.

In any case, I suspect Goldman is right: we can't expect Bernie's odd renaissance to last.

As for what to do about it...I'm with Mike. We don't need another OFer. At least, we don't need any of the ones that are likely to be available at a reasonable price. We're hitting enough. Yeah, we've lost some games when the bats went silent, but that happened last year, too. Good pitching can shut down a whole lineup of DHs.

No, I think we need to play a different kind of baseball. We need to be balanced. We need speed and defense and some contact hitters as well as the sluggers. I believe that defense wins championships. Improving our defense may be the cheapest way to get better. Play Andy and Bubba and Kevin more. They'll hit better with more ABs, and the rest will do the veterans good. If we'd done that last year instead of going with Womack, Lawton, and Sierra, we'd have been better off.

As for what Cashman will actually do...I think he'll wait until the deadline is near and there's a fire sale. Then he'll grab whoever's cheap. Someone like Craig Wilson would be great (the Pirates have too many OFers, and need cash a lot more than prospects). Plus, Wilson is versatile. He can play all OF position, 1B, and catcher.

2006-06-22 14:42:43
103.   markp
amen. There are a few mid-level corner OFs that would be a marked improvement over GoB at the plate and especially in the field.
2006-06-22 14:46:55
104.   Bama Yankee
99 Good call on Sparky! Hey, lets use them both. BTW, I remember reading "The Bronx Zoo" when I was just a kid. Boy did it pull the curtain back on the Yankees clubhouse for a niave ten year old. I couldn't understand how my hero Reggie could be such a jerk.
2006-06-22 15:56:23
105.   markp
oops. I shoulda read the whole post before "amen"-ing. I prefer high OBA/high SLG guys who can catch the ball a bit. I do think we can upgrade RF without paying a lot-there are quite a few mid-level corner OFs that shouldn't cost very much.
And no more small-ball strategies please!
2006-06-22 16:58:19
106.   RichYF
Riske got suspended for 3 games. That's all I have to say.
2006-06-22 17:18:32
107.   alterity
105 Amen to you. To everyone who thinks the Yanks should "carry" Melky because they can afford to: he's slugging .328! If he was qualified that rankning would put him at 179 out of 182 major leaguers, ahead of such notable power threats as Willy Taveras and Jason Kendall. In 2005 the AL as a league slugged .424. That's including second basemen, utility infielders, sxith outfielders, and pitchers batting in interleague games. We're notr talking about a little missing power. That's nearly 100 points off of league average, and not only for corner outfielders. We may all pine for the good old days of Paul O'Neill and other "small ball" players lke the Yanks used to have, but even those guys slugged north of .450. BTW, the classic "singles" hitter a lot of people have thrown out as an example of a guy who who doesn't need power to be useful. . .you know, Ichiro?, well he's slugging .468 this year and .444 for his career. And his career OBP, at .380, is also a bit better than Melky's current .354 clip. I know it's ridiculously unfair to compare Melky to Ichiro, but the comparison has already been made. Bottom line: there is no use in "carrying" someone just because other players are very good. Doesn't it make sense to exploit the advantage the Yanks have in Jeter, ARod, and Posada (better than league average at their position) by getting guys who are at least league average at traditional power positions? Of course I don't have any idea where that power would come from at this point, and we shouldn't trade blue chips for Reggie Sanders, so. . . just saying is all.
2006-06-22 17:24:51
108.   singledd
107 Finally some sanity.

Has anyone seen Clemens on TV.
He's HUGE!
Huge I tell ya! Huge I tell ya!

Please guys, check him out so I know I'm sane. He's bigger then Bonds. Way Big.

He looks INFLATED.
LOOK at his chest and shoulders.

It can't be natural.
Please look. Make sure you see him standing next to another human being.

My God.
ESPN TV in my neck of the woods.
(He's HUGE!)

2006-06-22 17:27:39
109.   monkeypants
I see the arguments for pitcher or OF, but it seems to me that 1] hitters are more predictable than pitchers, and 2] mid-level hitters tend to be better values than mid-level starters. There is another consideration--it's not just that the Yankees are underproducing at one OF position, they are hurting at bother corner OF and DH. Moreover, the bench is still weak. So, I would go for a bat to work into the DH-RF/LF rotation.
2006-06-22 17:37:56
110.   randym77
Melky may never be more than a 4th OFer. He's so young yet (assuming he's not lying about his age, anyway), it's too early to judge. Of course, if I could trade Melky for, say, Jason Bay, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

But no one's going to give us that kind of deal. And I just don't think an OFer will make enough difference to be worth what we'd have to pay. If Cashman finds a deal, great. But trading for Abreu or Hunter or Sori - please, no. And some of the others people were talking about, like Gathright, are hitting worse than Bubba and Melky. Why bother?

2006-06-22 18:06:35
111.   Schteeve
I mean I feel like I've repeated myself 100 times on this topic. Our Offense is way better than average. Way better than the competition we'll see in the post season. At some point offense becomes redundant. If you give up 4 runs in a game you still win whether you score 5 runs or 19 runs.

Our pitching is average and will only get worse if current trends and patterns are maintaines. Nobody is saying that more offense is bad, but if you have $1 dollar to spend and you run the Yankees and you don't spend that $1 on pitching you're being foolish.


2006-06-22 18:11:04
112.   randym77
Speaking of pitching...NoMaas is hilarious today:

"Yankees to have off-day, Proctor will pitch anyway"

>> Fresh off their 5-0 victory over the Phillies, the Yankees will use Thursday to rest up and prepare for a weekend series versus the Marlins -- that is all of the Yankees except Scott Proctor. Although an off-day, Torre plans on using Proctor for at least an inning or two on the flight back to New York:

"Scotty needs a little more work," said Torre. "He has electric stuff, but he just needs to locate better. We're going to set up a flight attendant at one end of the aisle and have Scott pitch from the other end." <<

2006-06-22 18:24:20
113.   singledd
112 very, very funny.
2006-06-22 18:39:12
114.   DarrenF
112 Proctor can do some things.
2006-06-22 19:14:08
115.   Yu-Hsing Chen
I'd think that if there is a decent option out there that we don't have to overpay, I'd go for it, but if we don't Melky is a realtively decent option that at least get on base and plays decent defense.

Either way my guess is Melky will play most of this season in our OF and after that we probably won't rush to trade him anyway.

2006-06-22 20:03:15
116.   randym77
108 Yikes. Watching Sports Center, I see what you mean. He's humongous. Much bigger than he used to be. A mountain of a man. He must have his own gravitational field.
2006-06-22 21:58:25
117.   monkeypants
111 Schteeve, by that same logic...if you score 5 runs in a game, it doesn't matter whether you give up 4 or 0--you still win the game. Or, if you give up 6 or 8 runs a game, you stand a better chance of winning if your offence scores closer to 15 than 5.

The issue is run differential. Teams that score more runs and give up fewer runs win more often. So, a team can improve either by adding runs scored OR lower runs allowed. As long as a team can improve at any position, it serves their purposes to improve at that position, whether it is offense or defense. The key is to imrove the most (or perhaps, the most for the most value).

The Yankees are clearly subpar at LF, RF, DH, and bench. So, to add a good hitting OF/DH will certainly improve the team and add to the win total. That does not mean that adding a better pitcher will not do the same--it will.

I do not know if the team should add a P or an OF, but it is false logic to argue that because they are good on offense it serves no good to improve the offense.

2006-06-22 22:10:34
118.   Yu-Hsing Chen
116 that or just a bit too much steak and beer ;)
2006-06-22 22:13:36
119.   Yu-Hsing Chen
117Actually, if the current Bernie continues (not likely but hey anything is possible)he isn't sub-par... offensively anyway.

Also it depends on who you consider our "DH" if it's Giambi then it's definately not subpar unless everyone else in the league is.

2006-06-22 22:19:09
120.   monkeypants
119 If Giambi = DH, then Phillips (or Cairo!) is 1B. As much as I love Andy, there is no way he is a league average 1B. This also forces Bernie to RH. You are correct that recent Bernie is fine (though defense is brutal), but I doubt that continues.
2006-06-23 04:52:15
121.   randym77
A possibly relevant Newsday article here:

Nationals scout spotted in Trenton. Though Sori is likely not an option, the Nats are also looking to trade Jose Guillen, Livan Hernandez, Tony Armas Jr. and Ramon Ortiz.

>>Joe Torre, speaking yesterday at the Samsung Four Seasons of Hope fundraiser in Manhattan, indicated his team's greatest need right now is in the outfield and the bullpen.

"It changes on a daily basis, I think," Torre said. "You think you'd like to have a little more experience in the outfield. Bernie has been a lifesaver for us. His being a lifesaver is based on the fact that we don't want to use him all of the time. Melky, it's nice to have a safety net for him. You think in terms that way. And still spell Johnny Damon, too, sometimes. And then you see how much we use our bullpen.

"I think a player would be easier to get than a pitcher."<<

2006-06-23 04:58:23
122.   singledd
Thanks for the very interesting responses. It was said some, but I think our move will NOT be determined by what we need more (OF'er or Pitcher) but what is available, what we can get and what it will cost. This is why I think we get an OF'er. Not because it is our biggest need, but because I think it's MUCH more do-able then getting an impact Pitcher (unless we buy Roger).

What a fantasic group of intelligent and fanatical fans we have, to have response to a post like this on a weekday, non-game day. This is feeling like an extended family to me.

12 May have had the right idea, that Sean Henn and Eric Duncan are the main bait if we want to get big talent.

65 Painful as it is, using The untouchable?) Cano as a trading chip may be a creative possibility. It is also a way to improve our defense.

117 Point well taken. One difference however, is better starting pitching positively impacts the bullpen, which has an additional effect. My felling is that 1 run saved needs to be countered by 1.2 runs produced... answering my own question posted earlier.

119 Our '9th' player is the GH. Usually Phillips or Bernie. When Giambi DH's, then Phillips is at 1B, and our number at 1B are (below league average for 1B's) what?

We all love homegrown Yankees. We enjoy watching Melky and root hard for him. His mistakes are forgiven, his production glorified. But what if we went out an bought an OF'er with his numbers? (around .700 or less OPS). We would all be screaming for Cashmans head.

We need to balance our desire get younger and to produce our own players -against- winning now.

I think Cashman wants to win now, which is my I believe there will be umpact trades. However, unless the past, he will not give away the cream of our crop.

Considering Baseball is designed to give the worst teams an advantage by giving then higher draft picks, the Yanks have done an amazing job finishing 1st ten years in a row, and still producing some great talent.

I still think of Sori, Nick and others as Yankees. It's hard to see them be successful elsewhere.

This is just the cost we all bear of 'WIN NOW'.

And did anybody see Roger?

2006-06-23 05:00:46
123.   singledd


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