Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
Sparkle Like a Diamond
2006-06-14 06:40
by Alex Belth
Note: The Bronx Banter blog has moved to

So I go for Chinese with a motley crew of old New York Giants fans last night in my neighborhood and by the time I get home, Mariano Rivera is on the mound and the game is in ninth inning. And it was barely 9:30. Is this the American League or what? Chien-Ming Wang pitched a terrific game as did Cleveland's Paul Byrd. Robinson Cano's solo shot accounted for all of the scoring as the Yanks won 1-0. A nice victory on a night that saw several brilliant pitching performances around baseball (including Doc Halladay, Chris Carpenter, Jared Weaver, and of course, the great Schilling-Santana duel).

Comments (91)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-06-14 07:33:04
1.   Sliced Bread
Alex, I'd be interested to what your dinner companions, particularly the old timers, would say about this booing of Rodriguez.

Certainly, he's not the first great ballplayer to be treated like a bum by NY fans. As Jeter said last night, everybody gets booed. But it's starting to seem like the crowd wants Rodriguez to fail, like they're enjoying knocking him. Who gets their kicks this way? It's disgraceful.

Unfortunately, the only thing that's going to stop it is A-Rod. As I noted after the game last night, he managed to smile on the field celebrating the team's much-needed win. Perhaps the booing has become so senseless even the sensitive slugger can laugh it off.

2006-06-14 07:33:35
2.   Jorgie Juiced One
After another outstanding performance from Wang, and a HR from a possibly budding star in Cano (only 7 BBs is obviously problematic), I hate to start out on a negative.

The vitriolic booing of Alex Rodriguez at Yankee Stadium is asinine.

Alex Rodriguez is not only a great player, but a uniquely great player. By age 28, in only 8 seasons, he already had achieved a historically unprecedented career at shortstop. Without the steriod taint, he had 57 and 52 HR seasons, while fielding his position excellently. Because he WANTED to play for the Yankees, he was willing to abandon his position and to move to thirdbase. Last year, he produced what I think was the best season (along with Brett's 80 and 85 seasons) by an AL thirdbaseman.

It is our privilege as Yankees fans to watch this remarkable athlete perform in the prime of his career. Given time, we may have a chance to watch history unfold before our eyes, as he approaches the all-time HR record.

Those voicing their disdain are being herded like sheep by ignorant and/or anti-Yankees members of the media, and fans of other teams who despise the Yankees and Rodriguez.

This nonsense needs to stop.

2006-06-14 07:37:51
3.   rbj
I got in earlier, but the game wasn't on EI or the Fox Sports Cleveland station. Eventually I clicked on the local tv station to see the Mudhens -- that game was over (yet another 1-0 game) but I got to see Mo as well. Nice to see the Yankees winning a 1-0 game; pitching has to be top notch in those games.

But isn't this like the second day in a row (including an off day) that Proctor hasn't pitched? Is he hurt or just being a goldbricker. How are we going to find out if an arm really can fall off if Scott's just lazing away in the bullpen.

2006-06-14 07:40:47
4.   jayd
2 Second that emotion. They booed Mantle, why NOT arod? He joins an elite group. I can't take my eyes off him, got one of the most beautiful swings in the game and is every inch a Yankee immortal.
2006-06-14 07:51:30
5.   kylepetterson
With the exception of maybe Bonds, nobody should ever be booed in their own park unless they intentionally do something detrimental to their team.
2006-06-14 07:59:55
6.   RI Yankee
A-Rod, like so many other of the mercenaries on this team, has not yet won my heart. I still think of him, and the Unit, as Mariners . . . the enemy. Hey, I'm old . . .

That being said, I have never, nor would I ever boo someone in pinstripes. It's completely incomprehensible to me how anyone who roots for this team could express their frustrations this way.

2006-06-14 08:03:04
7.   Alex Belth
I did talk a little bit about that with some of the guys sitting near me--there must have been more than 20 of us all told--and they couldn't get behind bashing and booing Rodriguez.

As you guys say, he's in good company. Everyone from the Babe through Mantle and Jeter have been booed. But Rodriguez is booed more viciously than Jeter has ever been--I think he gets the treatment Mantle used to recieve.

You are also correct in saying the only way out of this is for Rodriguez is produce. Perhaps getting away from the Stadium for a minute will help him get his groove back. (The boos on the road are different from the boos at home.)

Personally, I think booing a guy who hit 48 dingers and won the MVP last season and is one of the great players of all-time is retarded, but hey, people are entitled. I think it makes Yankee fans look like dopes. But as Judy Holliday liked to say in "Born Yesterday," "It's a free country."

I understand why Rodriguez catches grief. It is part and parcel of being a super duper star, part of what comes with inking that enormous deal. Even if I don't participate in that kind of thing (I just feel like it's bad karma), I understand that it is simply a part of the game.

But the thing that cracks me up is Yankee fans talking about who is a "true Yankee" and who is not. Ultimately, do you know who is a true Yankee to me? Any freakin' guy who wears a Yankee uniform. So long as they don the pinstripes, then, hey, they are a Yankee. Nevermind a player as great as Rodriguez.

Hey, unless their attitude and effort is lousy, I just can't get behind booing a guy who is struggling. I just don't think A Rod is a horsesh** player. If he's got any flaw it's that he tries to hard. That is something I can empathize with.

I know I spend a lot of time defending Rodriguez here, mostly repeating myself. I was thinking about Rodriguez the other day and it occured to me why I've rooted for him over the years (and I've liked him since his days with the M's). Part of it is his talent and skill. I've come to the point as a fan where I hate very few great players. Even if I don't particularly care for them, my admiration generally overwhelms any personal reservations I may have about a guy. But you know what the other part is? And this is a-b-c stuff.

It's cause we share the same first name. You've got to be a real jagoff for me not to root for a guy named Alex.


2006-06-14 08:12:50
8.   bloodyank78
Mo has voiced his displeasure w/the fans for their treatment of Arod, his exact words were "It's a shame all these fans are booing the guy for nothing, everyone goes through this." Hear, Hear Mo. It really pisses me off. These same son of a bitches are going to cheer their heads off next time he does something big, which he will. So for any of you Yankee fans who boo Arod that are reading this right now, F-you. Show some class.
2006-06-14 08:14:15
9.   RI Yankee
7"But the thing that cracks me up is Yankee fans talking about who is a "true Yankee" and who is not."

I guess if they're on the payroll, they're a true Yankee. The other Alex is probably a bad example, because he IS such a great player and a class act. But, I have never liked Sheff or Johnson and I'm sorry, I have a tough time rooting for them just because they're here. If they help us get #27, great, but I can't get behind them. Like I said, I'm old . . .

2006-06-14 08:16:31
10.   RI Yankee
9 BTW . . I think you're a class act too . . .
2006-06-14 08:20:20
11.   rsmith51
10 I have never liked Clemens even though he helped win a couple of titles for the Yanks. I always want Yankees to do well. Though I was hoping that Erickson would get knocked around when the Yanks were down by a bunch against the O's a week or so ago.
2006-06-14 08:23:00
12.   DarrenF
It would be nice if there was a backlash to the backlash. I would live to give ARod a standing ovation before his first at-bat tonight. True Fans take the Stadium back.

Every baseball player slumps. ARod's slump will be short-lived and he'll bounce back like a Superball.

I can not think of another situation where an MVP was rejected by the fans in his team's city. There may be instances of this, but I just can't think of any.

This has been simmering since day one, since the day he got to NY. This is not something new that just appeared in the past two weeks. When ARod is mocked for winning the AL MVP and for hitting two hrs vs. KC in May, there is nowhere to go when he actually plays poorly.

2006-06-14 08:24:53
13.   RI Yankee
Maybe it's the money . . . Winfield got a lot of the same treatment.
2006-06-14 08:28:31
14.   rbj
Didn't Maris catch a lot of flack from the fans, even after he hit 61 & won the MVP?

I'll give A-Rod a standing O, even from my living room. (the dog already thinks I'm nuts)

2006-06-14 08:31:43
15.   vockins
5 I beg to differ.

ARod's situation is unfortunate. I think he's a phenomenal player. I wouldn't want anyone else on the planet playing third base for the Yankees. He's having a rough patch, and I'm sure he'll get out of it.

However, as a fan with passion for the game and for the Yankees, what other choices do I have to express my displeasure with a crappy AB, four crappy ABs, or persistent hanging curves? Should I text the dude?

2006-06-14 08:35:42
16.   yankee23
Word up on the brilliant pitching, Alex. There were 19 quality starts last night giving this combined total:

133.1 99 22 21 32 102 and 10HR

2006-06-14 08:38:34
17.   Rob Gee
The amazing thing to me is the crowd's emotions are tied to really very subtle differences within the cheers and boos. Just to imagine what it sounds like on the field - players have to hear the distinction so much more clearly. They know how what the fans feel for them differs from player to player - they don't need to read anything to get that sense. Here's where words will always fail, but I'll try:

The cheers that Rocket got were more admiration and appreciation.

Paully got plain puppy love.

Jeter gets infatuation.

Giambi gets 55k thatta boy's.

Mo gets awe for a genius at work.

Jorge gets cheered but it just never seems intense.

Now the boos are tougher -

But A-Rod seems to be getting the 'angry failure' treatment. With the standards he's set, it's hard to expect otherwise. I seem to remember Winfield getting this treatment too. Mo got it at the beginning of last year.

But in all those expressions, there's never hate - just more like tons of peeps saying at once "What the hells the mattah wit you?"

Then of course there's the booing that the Sux got - former (Boggs, Rocket) and present (Papi) - the appreciation mixed in with the negativity.

Pedro circa 2002 - 2004 seemed to get something different - a mocking appreciation all in one. I seem to remember Jose Canseco in 1988 getting the same treatment.

It's just pretty cool - something as simple as "Yeah" and "Boo" can elicit a whole range of emotions depending on how it's amplified thorugh the crowd. Great stuff.

The best part about A-Rod though is he won't give up. So the moment when he makes it there, he'll have truly made it everywhere. Good times when it happens.

2006-06-14 08:39:52
18.   Sliced Bread
7 As if you're not busy enough, you could start the "Alexes for Alex" (NY chapter) support group.

Like the song says, "No, it isn't pretty what a town without pity can do."

2006-06-14 08:42:53
19.   RI Yankee
18 "Hi my name is Alex and I'm an Alex"

"Hi Alex"

2006-06-14 08:49:16
20.   Schteeve
People who boo A-Rod capriciously are dipshits plain and simple. And Alex makes a great point, there is no such thing as a true Yankee. No player in baseball is born with pinstripes. They are all just baseball players, who happened to end up on the Yankees by one route or another. (Apologies to Joe Dimaggio.) I root for anyone in Yankee blue, Johnny Damon used to play for the A's, Royals, and Sox? So what? his hits count for the Yankees now, I'm happy to root for the kid.

Sheffield is blunt and mercenary, and blunt about being mercenary, good for him at least he's not a phony baloney media whore. I have no problem rooting for him.

The only baseball player I know of that under no circumstances would I root for, would have been Kevin Mitchell. The guy was a violent, dangerous, lethal psychopath. I'm sure there are other players who fit that bill, I just don't know who they are.

Even Barry Bonds, I think I could learn to root for.

2006-06-14 08:49:44
21.   DarrenF
14 Thanks! Maris wasn't well-loved despite winning back-to-back MVPs in NY. Don't know if Maris was booed so "lustily," as described by the AP.

15 Difference between an exasperated groan and orchestrated booing. Booing "lustily" at that. Dissatisfaction with ARod is not with 4 at-bats or even the last 29. Dissatisfaction with ARod is with his cumulative 2 1/2 years in NY. If you are personally dissatisfied with his 2 1/2 years in NY, then I beg to strongly differ.

2006-06-14 08:51:16
22.   Schteeve
15 A-rod, lol u r killn me. OMG WTF? Lol
2006-06-14 08:58:47
23.   RI Yankee
20 Sheffield is more than blunt, Schteeve, he quit on his team. And he ain't none too blunt about his juice use, IMHO.

I've always liked Damon, I just don't know what he'll have left in a year or two.

A friend of mine, Sox fan, used to say the name Johnny Damon sounded like a boxer from a 40's movie - - "That Johnny Damon, he's got a right like a freight train!"

2006-06-14 09:07:53
24.   Shaun P
21 A-Rod is, bar none, the greatest third baseman in Yankee history. Even with just 2 and a half years under his belt.

The booing has gotten very old. At his current pace, A-Rod will end the season with:

132 runs scored (more than last year)
167 hits
21 doubles
3 triples
34 home runs
119 RBI
103(!) walks (more than last year)
145 K
16 SB

Those are some damn impressive numbers. Anyone want to bet he doesn't beat those? Me neither.

2006-06-14 09:08:03
25.   Popcult
D-backs just DFA'ed Russ Ortiz. Is it worth it for Cash-man to sign him to a minor league contract, a la Hildalgo, Long, Durazo, etc., and see if the dude has anything left?
2006-06-14 09:13:34
26.   RI Yankee
25I was thinking the same thing this morning . . .
2006-06-14 09:16:14
27.   yankz
25 His numbers in the NL (which supposedly helps pitchers) were atrocious. I don't even think it's worth it. It'd be another Unit.
2006-06-14 09:20:11
28.   Schteeve
23 Would you care to explain to me how Sheff quit on the team?

And give me a break with the steroid stuff, NOBODY has been forthcoming about their use of the juice. They'd be insane to be forthcoming about it.

2006-06-14 09:20:45
29.   Schteeve
Oh, and Russ Ortiz would be like Randy Johnson, except without the pedigree or talent of Randy Johnson.
2006-06-14 09:24:48
30.   brockdc
19 Good stuff.

I voiced my displeasure about the lustful boos of A-Rod on yesterday's thread. My question is this: If so many of us are so vehemently against the booing of A-Rod, who are the ones doing the booing? Are we at the Banter highly evolved or is it mob mentality congealing at the Stadium?

When I was a kid - and living in NY - my FAVORITE player was Winnie (I still have my 80's cartoon cariature T-shirt with Big Dave on it). And I can recall that, in one early-season game in '84 (the year he was runner up to Donnie for the batting title), he had a terrible game, striking out two or three times; and the boos were just relentless.

I cried.

2006-06-14 09:30:17
31.   unmoderated
#12 "I can not think of another situation where an MVP was rejected by the fans in his team's city. There may be instances of this, but I just can't think of any."

Mike Schmidt.

2006-06-14 09:31:04
32.   Upperdeck
There's a ton of frustration watching A-Rod play. That first inning last night with the bobbled pop up, the complete miss on the shot to his right and the strikeout. Yeah, at the end of the year the numbers are all amazing, but is there any other star player who can look so completely overmatched at times?
2006-06-14 09:35:26
33.   C2Coke
24 With all the booing and bashing, it's easy to forget Arod is still producing much much more than average. Although perhaps he is paid to do more, but hey! this is considered his SLUMP! It will be so entertaining to see Arod start to hit those balls outta the park. I will probabaly laugh pretty hard when I start seeing those fans give him standing Os in every game.
2006-06-14 09:35:30
34.   Bama Yankee
To borrow a line from Letterman:
"Hey A-Rod, they aren't booing you, they are just shouting: AAAALLLLLEEEEXXXXXX"
2006-06-14 09:40:32
35.   jdsarduy
I guess the definition now-a-days of a "True Yankee" is a player that came up from the farm system, has had some success, and has been a Yankee for a while.
Of course, that's silly and it's something stupid Red Sox players say to insult better players.
I always considered Paul O'Neill, Scott Brosius, Joe Girardi, David Cone and a many others great Yankees even though they didn't start with the Yanks.

I'm frustrated with A-Rod now and I expect big things from him in big spots so I understand some fans but I would never boo a Yankee.
I think A-Rod needs to get away from Yankee Stadium for a while b/c right now he's looking real bad.

2006-06-14 09:41:04
36.   C2Coke
30 Actually, there are more than a few of the BB posters are currently not in NYC.
2006-06-14 09:42:54
37.   Jen
30 It's mob mentality (not that there aren't some highly evolved individuals here). It started out with a few rabid fans and has escalated every night. There were people with brown paper bags on their heads last night when A-Rod came to bat. From what I've seen there are a few that do speak out against the booing, but they're not going to change anyone's mind. In fact they may just make the boo-birds angrier. I've heard many people (women moreso than men) scream "I hate you A-Rod". It's out of control.
2006-06-14 09:45:48
38.   Sliced Bread
30 The crap Winfield had to put up with was gross. I remember it well. Me and my friends (and a lot of other fans) would try to drown out the boos by cheering for him. Weird, all these guys in Yankee shirts booing a Yankee, especially Winfield. I never got it. Obviously everybody roots for the team their own way.
2006-06-14 09:46:03
39.   JL25and3
28 I took this one on in more depth a few days ago, so I won't belabor it here. But no, Sheffield didn't quit on the Yankees, he quit on the Brewers when he was there. And not just a little bit, he really quit on them big time. As 5 said, "nobody should ever be booed in their own park unless they intentionally do something detrimental to their team." I'll gladly boo Sheffield any time.
2006-06-14 09:48:31
40.   C2Coke
30 Didn't finish my saying, computer problem. I was going to say it's hard for someone like me not in NYC right now to figure out what the heck is wrong with those people. And in 37, Jen just kinda answered it.
2006-06-14 09:52:51
41.   yankz
Sounds to me like a chicken or the egg thing. Does he slump because he's getting booed? Or is he getting booed because he's slumping? Any way you slice it, the boos aren't helping.
2006-06-14 09:54:40
42.   Alex Belth
Winnie faced much of the same kind of resentment that Rodriguez now faces...he signed an enormous contract and wasn't part of a championship team in New York. Winfield came along right after the Yanks had been so successful and went to the Serious in his first year in New York. Never got close again. Let's hope Rodriguez can actually make it to a Fall Classic as a Yankee so he gets an opportunity to turn the jeers to cheers.
2006-06-14 09:55:43
43.   DarrenF
31 Thanks! Unclear if Schmidt was booed while he was the reigning MVP, but the point is the same. Worse, Schmidt was a lifelong Phillie and booed after winning three MVPs in Philly. Ridiculous treatment.

32 I think all baseball hitters look overmatched at times. Especially guess hitters who tend to strike out looking, which the fans really hate. But even free swinging reigning MVP Vlad Guerrero was 1-for-20 in the ALCS last year. Jeter was 0-for-5 with 3 k's last Saturday. Oh, well.

I get a little bit miffed when Torre and others presume to tell ARod how to handle the game physically and mentally. (Torre will undoubtedy slip in a reference to his own 1971 MVP season.)

Point being, ARod is doing something right. If ARod puts pressure on himself, then this approach got him to 400 hrs quicker than anybody ever. It's kind of presumptuous to suggest that he'd have 500 hrs by now if he just relaxed.

2006-06-14 09:56:02
44.   Sliced Bread
37 It's nice how the mob mentality has been working in reverse for Bernie.

Everybody knows he's not nearly the player he used to be, and there are a lot of hitters the crowd might rather see at the plate when Bernie steps up with runners on, but still they cheer him on.

Even funnier, if he hits into a double play or strikes out looking, Bernie gets the polite "well, good for you for trying" applause little leaguers get. It's like nobody wants to be the guy who boos Bernie. I love it.

2006-06-14 10:04:47
45.   RI Yankee
39 JL, you beat me to the punch . . . damn job!

28 Giambi was forthcoming and as far as I'm concerned, he deserves my respect far more than Sheff.

2006-06-14 10:08:55
46.   murphy
45 and what, exactly, was giambi forthcoming about?

"uuuuhh.... i'm sorry... uuuhh... for uuuh.... i'm.... uuuhh... i'm sorry..."

2006-06-14 10:10:22
47.   YankeeInMichigan
The only Yankee star that I ever had difficulty rooting for was Reggie. He was an outsider (at a time when outsiders were the exception, not the rule), and he made clear his intentions to tread on Thurman's sacred turf. I never quite forgave him for that. Of course I cheered when he got the big hit, but he was always the last guy that I would want to get that hit.
2006-06-14 10:11:40
48.   RI Yankee
46 OK, so he's no Canseco, but he's no Raffy either . . .
2006-06-14 10:23:52
49.   JL25and3
Actually, Sheffield was more forthcoming, in his own way - he said that he used the cream and the clear, but he also said he never used steroids. Not that he didn't know he used steroids, but that he never did, period.

But I don't think using steroids is anywhere near as bad as going in the tank. And thanks, RI Yankee - you're the only other person I've run into who still cares about that, as I do.

2006-06-14 10:31:18
50.   rsmith51
47 That's funny, because the reason I became a Yankee fan is Reggie Jackson. Otherwise I might be a frustrated Cubs fan right about now(I grew up in nw Illinois.)
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-06-14 10:38:18
51.   domvjr
Over on the radio, the Fan's #1 topic, is the booing of AROD. Right now, the Dog is killing Jeter for not publically supporting AROD. They seem to think that if Jeter made a statement of support, the Yankee fans would lay off AROD. At least Rivera, said something last night.
2006-06-14 10:43:34
52.   Tarheel
That is what I have been saying for a while now--if Jeter is the captain and leader of this team, why doesn't he say something to the fans through the media about the booing? He could, with the respect he seems to have with the fans, probably put an end to it. Makes you wonder what is going on there.
2006-06-14 10:43:35
53.   yankaholic
51 i second that.. where the HECK is the supposed captain..

this is a nasty situation.. for soem reason, i think Jeter kind of wants this to happen..

Jeter has never gotten over some ARod's earlier comments with the M's

Even when they are high-5ing and laffing, i see a reluctance..

would it hurt to say.. hes our guy dont do this..

2006-06-14 10:46:36
54.   Sliced Bread
I'm glad somebody stood up for him last night, even better that it was Rivera. But what's Jeter supposed to do? Admonish the fans for booing A-Rod while acknowledging that everybody including him and Mo has gotten the Bronx cheers? Should Jeter call for a group hug for A-Rod on the field tonight?
No, as I said before the only Yankee who can end this is Rodriguez, and he will.
2006-06-14 10:47:02
55.   yankz
53 I can't ever imagine Jeter doing that.
2006-06-14 10:51:18
56.   domvjr
Sure both Jeter and Mo have gotten booed, but never at this level. He is being booed for walking out to the batters box. It's gotten way out of hand. Who would these idiotic fans want to play 3rd base, in his stead. Adrian Beltre! I've been a fan for over 50 years, and I have never wished ill on a Yankee player. I am sure there is no love lost between Jeter and AROD, but this is could affect team chemistry. It's time for someone to step up.
2006-06-14 10:52:29
57.   Schteeve
49 How long ago was it that Sheff played for the Brewers. Are we unable to forgive his immaturity, and unable to beleive he may have grown up since then. I'm not excusing what he did then, I'm saying that he's not the same guy he was then. He played through the 04 season with a shoulder muscle that was separating itself from the bone, because the Yankees needed his bat. I don't think he's a quitter.
2006-06-14 10:52:55
58.   Tarheel
Granted I live in NC and have only been to the stadium 4 times and until the MLB Extra Innings and XM radio came along I only got to see the rare Yankee game on TV, but I can't recall anyone ever getting the treatment that Arod is getting right now (I have been following the Yanks since 1976). Sure Jeter and Mo have heard boos before, but not like this. That is why I think that Jeter should at least make some type of statement to try to end this.
2006-06-14 10:55:38
59.   Tarheel
(By the way, MLB Extra Innings and XM radio are great. All we ever get here on TV is the &%^$#^ Braves and Cubs. With the occational O's game.)
2006-06-14 10:58:26
60.   yankaholic
56 thats my gripe.. Mo was booed out of shock following the 04 debacle.. they knew they were stupid..

but the ARod boo'ers think they are right.. kind of stupid.. i cannot imagine our fans reading Lupica n watching ESPN and not filter it.. they drill u with the fact that Ortiz is clutch..

ofcourse they dont show u his K's and DPs..

its ESPN..

and this all adds.. we watch ARod every damn day and we get angry,

Ortiz went thru a 1-20 spell recently.. right no one knew it..

back to Jeter.. i think a statement wud help both from a team unity point of view and reigning in the rowdy fans..

2006-06-14 10:59:14
61.   JohnnyC
The only thing that will get fans off his back is for him to go off on a sustained tear at the plate, not a game, a week of games, but a month or more of Pujolsian hitting (which he is certainly very capable of). People...the last thing ARod wants is for Jeter to make some sort of "statement" or plea to the fans to stop booing him. Yes, privately, in the clubhouse, a show of support...that'd be great...but a public statement would just exacerbate the situation further, especially if ARod, in the short term, continued to struggle. Arod will ride this out. We don't need to organize a telethon for him. Just yet.
2006-06-14 11:01:29
62.   yankz
Man, I just wish A-Rod would go on a Tino 2005 tear and the Yankees go 10-1 in that time or something ridiculous like that. Then (hopefully) we wouldn't even have this dumb conversation.
2006-06-14 11:02:07
63.   rbj
There's a part of me that almost wishes the game was on ESPN so Joe Morgan and Rick Sutcliffe could rip the A-Rod booers. Now how sick is that?
2006-06-14 11:02:58
64.   Sliced Bread
A statement from Jeter in support of A-Rod probably wouldn't hurt, as in make things worse, but man, that would make Rodriguez look like a guy who needs the captain to stand up for him. If I were A-Rod, I think I'd prefer the team to just shrug off the boo'ers, and not get too riled up about it. Who knows? Perhaps Jeter and Torre have asked A-Rod if he wanted them to say something. I don't buy the suggestion that Jeter is somehow in favor of this booing. Not at all.
2006-06-14 11:05:26
65.   Sliced Bread
61 A-Rod telethon, now that's funny.
2006-06-14 11:05:54
66.   Tarheel
60, you are right, you never hear anything but positives about Ortiz. He had a great year last year, but he is no where near the player as Arod. He is a product of ESPN hype. Why didn't Lupica write or talk about that 1-20 swing in his articles or on that sorry show The Sports Reporters? Arod has been playing at the same level since his careers began, Big Poppie has really had one great year and the rest, this year included, are just decent years.
2006-06-14 11:18:15
67.   Shaun P
66 The cynic in me says its because Ortiz has never signed a contract associated with the phrase "252 million dollars".
2006-06-14 11:32:10
68.   dianagramr

He would have to go on that tear in the playoffs, leading to a Yankee World Series win.

2006-06-14 11:33:57
69.   wsporter
52 64 Heel, Slice: The only reason I can think of that argues that Jeter shouldn't come out and say something to try to put an end to this garbage is that he might effectively cut the legs out from under A-Rod from the team's point of view. If he were to rush to A-Rod's aid as his protector it would be a de-facto statement on his part that A-Rod can't defend himself and that A-Rod can't take it. That might serve to reduce or imperil A-Rod's status or position on the team itself. Additionally, it might make A-Rod seem even more vulnerable to the people who are doing the booing and make them even more blood thirsty.

Rather than make a direct and unsolicited statement, if he were asked by an enterprising young reporter like Phil Pepe how he feels about it that might be different and allow him the room to make a definite statement without undercutting A-Rod.

Perhaps Mr. Torre could say something directly and in an unsolicited fashion. It would carry some weight, it would not be a fellow player making the statement and it would be essentially a request from the team as a whole.

As I said on the previous thread, these people seem like morons and they sure as hell don't speak for me and it looks like from a quick read of the thread they don't speak for most of us. Is anything going to quell the blood lust this type of mob mentality breeds? We all have the right to say and do many things that good taste and common sense prevents us from doing. Carrying on this way about the reigning AL MVP and AL Player of the Month for May is simply, well, moronic. What it is doing to a member of our team is unspeakable. I am embarrassed but unfortunately not surprised.

2006-06-14 11:43:37
70.   Sliced Bread
69 Good call, wsporter. Torre's the way to go. Let's get this "enterprising young reporter" kid Pepe on board.
2006-06-14 11:46:48
71.   JL25and3
Jeter could have addressed this a long time ago, before the booing started. And it didn't have to involve directly defending him against any criticism. All he had to do was say, "It's so great having ARod on the team, he's a great player, having him on my right has helped me be a better shortstop, he's one of the best hitters I've ever seen." Prepackaged crap like that is Jeter's specialty, but he doesn't seem to have any of it for ARod.

And 57, I'll say one more time: Sheffield hasn't tanked for the Yankees - yet - but I'm not convinced he's a different person. He's made some very thinly veiled threats. If he's really different, a good way to show it would be to show some remorse about Milwaukee.

2006-06-14 11:52:48
72.   RI Yankee
49De nada, JL . . .

57If I may belabor this dead horse for just a few more sentences . . Schteeve, it's not about forgiving . . . I'm not his maker . . . I just don't like the guy and the fact that he plays for the team I've rooted for my whole life isn't going to change that. You can chalk it up to immaturity, I think it's his character. And to me, that still means something . . .

2006-06-14 11:57:39
73.   Sliced Bread
Moving on to a different topic, if that's possible today: the bullpen.

Farnswacker's brief appearance last night was a baby step back in the right direction for him, but Dotel getting ripped in the minors was a sobering reminder that his recovery from Tommy John could still take a while.

Has anybody heard rumblings whether Ramiro Mendoza is on the way? I'm surprised we haven't seen him already. What up?

2006-06-14 12:08:09
74.   DarrenF
When Jeter talks, the fans listen. I think it's very appropriate to tell the fans that if they've got a problem with any Yankee, then they've got a problem with me.

Not literally any Yankee. Pick your spots. Nobody needs to vouch for Jeff Weaver.

I don't think ARod necessarily needs the support, but I've been waiting to hear it. Actually, since post-'04 when Schilling went after ARod and the Yankees were curiousy silent in response.

By the way, Torre merely repeats that ARod needs to relax and there is nothing Torre can do except help ARod relax. Give him a pat on the butt. Which may be true.

But then Torre said yesterday that ARod hasn't consistently produced as a Yankee. I almost drove my car off the road.

2006-06-14 12:16:43
75.   JL25and3
The fans' reaction has become so irrational that I don't know if even going on a tear will help. MVP didn't help; player of the month last month didn't help. I hear people say that he needs to have "a defining moment" as a Yankee. I would have thought that last year's game-winning home run in Boston would have done it - off Schilling, coming out of the bullpen in his first game back from the DL, being hailed by RSN as a savior. If Jeter had hit that homer, it would have become another legend.
2006-06-14 12:33:20
76.   rbj
74 Yes, to change the subject. . .
Speaking of Jeff Weaver 3-9, WHIP of 1.5, 16 HR in 74.2 IP, 20/45 BB/K (not bad). So pitching in the NL, especially Dodger Stadium agrees with him, otherwise, not.
2006-06-14 12:41:11
77.   Tarheel
Did Torre really say that Arod hasn't produced consistently as a Yankee yesterday? WTF has he been smoking.
2006-06-14 12:47:29
78.   Bama Yankee
76 Speaking of ex-Yankee pitchers, what about Kenny Rogers? He is 9-3, 3.25 ERA, 1.14 WHIP while pitching the AL.
2006-06-14 12:59:46
79.   DarrenF
77 While being interviewed on Mike and Mad Dog. I might have heard the show for 10 whole minutes and that's what I hear. Torre also buys into the notion that ARod doesn't produce in big spots. Torre also buys into the notion that ARod presses too hard. #3 is an opinion that can not be disproven. #1 and #2 are opinions that are easily disproven.
2006-06-14 12:59:50
80.   yankaholic
74 Fire Torre now.. if that is his quote.. that is never going to be confidence inducing...

is it me or is Torre making some stupid ugly comments oflate..

this is the topper.. thats incredible

2006-06-14 13:18:31
81.   Max
While the dead horse keeps being flogged, I guess I'll chip in.

I hate the booing of ARod and admire a lot of what he's done as a Yankee. Great athlete, great hitter, all of that. The murmurs about him being a less than ideal teammate give me pause sometimes, but I mostly tune them out.

However, I can't deny that there is something about A-Rod when he fails that makes him look very helpless and swallowed up by the enormity of the moment. I know this is irrational, but I think it's weird how even I'm given to jumping to judgement on A-Rod in the heat of the moment...I'm thinking specifically about his error in Game 2 of the Angels playoff series, where he committed that ghastly error that opened up the floodgates for the Angels to come back.

There were so many team failings in that series, but for a few weeks afterwards, my mind kept flashing to A-Rod's game 2 error and this GIDP in Game 5. And this is from someone who doesn't hate A-Rod at all. I just wonder if it's his way of handling the spotlight that is making him so hated by the fans...and of course, that contract doesn't help either.

With all that said, I remember some incredibly vicious booing for Giambi last year, and he turned it around with weeks of hitting that saved our season last year. A-Rod is going to have to do the same thing, I guess. But it is weird and probably unfair to see how his successes are being minimized and subject to petty disputes (like that homer against Wakefield), while his failures are being magnified and broadcast with a megaphone.

2006-06-14 13:43:16
82.   singledd
67 Hey guys... I have a project I need some help with. It's a 10 year gig and pays $252 million. I'm offering.

Any takers?

Who's the asshole here. Someone who takes me up on my offer, or ME for offering so much money, for probably, my own personal reasons.

I repeat. Hicks offered ARod 25M/year when 20M would have done the trick. CV thought ARod would make 18M. Some spectulated as high as 20M... but that seemed like such a sick amount.

Tahada's in Baltimore.
Pudge is in Detroit.
Damon is in NY (for Christ's sake).
Clemens took the Spring off, doesn't travel and makes 22M/year.
ARod is not the first or last to go with the money. He saw his mistake and GAVE UP PLAYING SS, to be on the Yankees (didn't offer THAT to the Sox).

In terms of Bang for the Buck Production, there are many Yankees who are a worse deal then ARod. Consider that WE pay him about 17M. Same as Jetes, a little more then Randy, less then Moose.

Judge the athlete, not the athlete's bank account.

The booing is F'ed up. Lets hope he doesn't ask for a trade, because then you will hear what 50,000 crying at once sounds like.

2006-06-14 13:52:07
83.   domvjr
82, Your damn right, who would all these so called fans want to play 3rd, instead of arod! I'm asking all you arod haters out there!
2006-06-14 13:53:26
84.   singledd
Shef also said something to the effect that if he can't play for the Yankees, why play at all. Thats pretty high praise coming from such a 'selfish dogger'.

Also, Shef's being Black has a lot to do with his behavior. Many Blacks in baseball feel there are still various forms of prejudice (I don't know enough to agree or disagree, but I believe it). Shef is very sensitive to that. Yes, he's a bit over the top, but there are deep internal feelings that sometimes have him with foot in mouth.

He was a warrior last year. He even finally took a cortizone shot this year, even though he didn't want to, because he knew he was needed. The guy's OK with me. I'll bet he's a good teammate.

2006-06-14 13:54:37
85.   randym77
Newsday column by Ken Davidoff kind of ties into the "true Yankee" thing:

He thinks kids who come up through the Yankee system, like Wang and Cano, do better than imports, if only because they've grown up in the crazy circus that is the NY Yankees organization.

It is kind of neat that last year's pair of rookies won the game for us last night, Wang on the mound, Cano at the plate.

As for this point, I think any discussion of the booing will just make it worse. I wish the press would just drop it. They're only encouraging the boo-birds, and no doubt discouraging A-Rod the more attention they give the issue.

2006-06-14 13:54:41
86.   DarrenF
81 Awful ALDS and truly abysmal 5-4-3 in the ninth. No excuses.

But the funny thing about the error is that it's the sixth inning of game 2 with Yankees leading in game and in series.

Is there a better time for ARod to make an error? It wasn't bases loaded bottom ninth or a tie game. Or is it just that he absolutely has to go every playoff series without ever making an error?

The floodgate it opened was one whole run. The Yankees lost by two runs. I don't quite see how a five-game series turned on one unearned run in the sixth inning of game #2. Because, of course, it didn't. It's just one error and it's just one run.

It's interesting you mention that specific play because I'm told quite often that Yankee fans should believe what they see (i.e., ARod is a choker and the stats don't tell the whole story). I think the opposite is occurring. I think people are seeing what they believe.

2006-06-14 13:55:30
87.   singledd
69 P.S. GREAT IDEA. Even a simply statement like 'heavy booing of players who help us win is a bummer. Nobody likes it." Doesn't even have to mention ARod by name (although our intrepid reporter probably will).
2006-06-14 14:14:30
88.   singledd
Anybody bold enought to make a prediction about RJ tonight?

We could certainly use to see Good RJ.

2006-06-14 14:28:32
89.   JL25and3
82 All good points. Not only did ARod make the move to third - graciously, even if it did serve his purposes - but do you remember Jeter's reaction to the situation? "I ain't playing third base." I love Jeter, and I don't even disagree with his (entirely expected) sentiment. But, honestly, his public reaction could have been a little more team-oriented.

84 I'm sure there's still a lot of prejudice in baseball, as everywhere else. There are a lot of black players; there were quite a few blacks on the Brewers that year. Sheffield's the only one who tanked. None of the other black players supported him.

2006-06-14 14:32:08
90.   Bama Yankee
88 I bet we don't see a World Cup score like we saw last night...
2006-06-14 18:12:50
91.   Yu-Hsing Chen
How fitting that you went to eat Chinese food too lol

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