Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
How Do You Spell Relief?
2006-05-31 05:24
by Alex Belth
Note: The Bronx Banter blog has moved to

Before the NBA playoffs in 1983, 76ers power forward, and future Hall of Famer, Moses Malone was asked for a prediction. "Fo, fo, fo," he replied succinctly, meaning that his team would win each series in four straight (the Sixers did win the title that year, going 12-1 in the process). The NBA playoffs have been truly exciting this spring, but for the injured-torn New York Yankees, the answer to their problems came in a familiar package last night: Mo, Mo, Mo. Mariano Rivera worked three innings for the first time in a regular season game since 1996. He threw just 25 pitches and was brilliant as the Yankees beat the Tigers in extra innings, 11-6. It seemed like the Tigers were going to find a way to pull the game out--coming back from 6-1, but Jason Giambi's solo home run off of Todd Jones broke the tie and then his teammates added four more for good measure. Combined with another Toronto win over Boston, the Yanks find themselves tied for first place this morning.

It was the Good, Bad and the Ugly last night in the Motor City. Let's address the bad first. Neither Johnny Damon or Gary Sheffield were in the line-up last night. Damon is playing with a broken bone in his foot and will need to rest every so often. Sheffield's wrist has not gotten better. In fact, it may have become significantly worse and the slugger may return to the DL. According to Sam Borden in the Daily News:

Sheffield admitted that he has suffered a new injury to his already-ailing wrist and believes he could be facing another long layoff.

"Yeah," Sheffield said when asked directly if he thought he might need to go back on the DL. "As soon as I picked up the bat to warm up (yesterday afternoon), it felt like my wrist came off. ...I don't know what's going on. I felt like (the previous sprain) was getting better, but it's in a different spot now. It's right on the wrist, right on the bone. It's really painful."

As far as the game goes, the bad and the ugly went hand-in-hand. The ugliest thing about the game was actually watching it. The pitchers were deliberate, and so were the managers. The game lasted just over four hours but it seemed longer. The Yankees blew a 6-1. With one out and a man on first in the bottom of the fifth, Derek Jeter booted a sure-double play ball. Instead of two out and nobody on, runners were on the corners with zero outs. (After tweaking his wrist the night before, Jeter had an awful night on Tuesday.) Aaron Small had worked out of a bases loaded, no out jam in the first inning but his luck was about up. Pudge Rodriguez tripled to deep right, Magglio Ordonez followed with an RBI single and suddenly it was a two-run game. Later, Kyle Farnsworth walked two men and loaded the bases with nobody out. The Yanks still held a one-run lead, but that didn't last as the Tigers tied the score on Brandon Inge's fielder's cherce.

However, Farnsworth wasn't a complete bust. He came back and fanned the last two hitters to keep the score tied. As for the good? Well, Rivera was flat-out great. The cutter was really moving. How about Melky Cabrera going 4-6 with a double, triple, walk and two RBI? And lookit Cliff's boy Andy Phillips with two big hits and 4 RBI of his own. Bernie Williams had three hits, T. Long added two and so did Alex Rodriguez. But it was Giambi's blast that was a crucial blow. Giambi has been slumping recently and was 0-5 (with three strike outs) when he faced the Tiger's closer in the top of the 11th. Jones got ahead of him 1-2 but then hung a curve ball. Giambi got all of it.

It was a big win for the Yankees. The Tigers look like a tough team. Their two young fire-balling relief pitchers, Joel Zumaya--who was hitting 100 mph on the radar gun, and has a bit of Carlos Zambrano's emotional charge to him--and Fernando Rodney--a huge dark-skinned man with wild hair who reminded me of Lee Smith, or a combination of Doc Ellis and Ben Wallace--were impressive. They were throwing gas and getting strikes and they both had tough breaking pitches too. I didn't come away from the game wondering if the Tigers are for real. I came away thinking the Yankees were fortunate to pull one out on the road against such a solid team. The crowd was apprehensive. They didn't anticipate rallies but reacted when good things happened. You can hardly blame them. But my sense is that they'll have plenty to cheer about this year.

Comments (74)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-05-31 06:28:30
1.   randym77
Nerve-racking game, but I'm really liking this edition of the Yankees. Despite the injuries - heck, because of them - they are balanced, in a way last year's team wasn't. They got the big homer (go, Jason!). But they also manufactured runs with walks, sacrifices and singles. Good pitchers often flummox our big bats. I like having a few contact hitters in the lineup.
2006-05-31 06:28:39
2.   rbj
That'll teach me to leave the game after 9. Except I did have to drive an hour to get home & get up at 6:30. The really bad part was I didn't get to hear Mr. Semi-Obnoxious Fan shut up in the 11th. Really, a big-assed nose ring done a la' a bull just looks stupid.

The game should not have gone 11. Jeter, Giambi & A-Rod, would it have killed you to have gotten Melky home after a lead off triple?
The Tigers are for real, the players who were at AAA last year did the same thing; come back even when down. The crowd really cheered Zumaya, basically egging him on when he hit 99, according to the scoreboard (as reliable as that is) he hit 101. Sending Long up against that wasn't fair.

Haven't looked at last nights comments, but to me it seemed that Farns was getting squeezed at times. Funny, A-Rod didn't get booed, Jeter didn't get booed, Giambi didn't get booed, Mo didn't get booed (all of which has happened at Comerica) but Farnsworth got loudly booed when he came in. I realize he spent part of '05 with the Tigers, didn't realize there was some history there.

And the weather was ugly. 10:30 pm and the temp was still 79, you could see the air all day.

2006-05-31 06:32:30
3.   Rosbif22
Alex, is the headline a "Funkentelechy" reference?
2006-05-31 06:43:57
4.   rsmith51

A couple things:

Before Jeter booted the ball, Small had walked a leadoff batter with a five-run lead. Much more annoying to me then booting a DP ball.

Mo gave up a hit who was quickly erased with a DP on the next pitch I believe. Pretty close to 9 up 9 down, though.

2006-05-31 06:54:55
5.   rsmith51
One thing Torre said was that he was going to take Mo out if it was tied, but left him in with a five-run lead. Huh?

With Torre, it makes sense. If you are trying to win the game, it doesn't.

2006-05-31 07:03:50
6.   Sliced Bread
Nice recap, Alex, and sweet "See Spot Start" headline last night, Cliff.

I had a feeling the Tigers were going to take the game after Cano got pegged at the plate on that great play by Pudge. The momentum could have gone Detroit's way if not for Rivera. Props to Joe for deploying him in a tie game on the road.

Farnswacker? As inconsistent as he's been, I like watching him pitch. He has great stuff, and he's tough. He got a couple of tough calls, and was definitely off-target on a few pitches, but he remained in attack-mode.

Great to see Melky and Phillips stepping up.

Next stop, 20 games over .500.

2006-05-31 07:12:00
7.   mikeplugh
One nice note for the Yankees right now....has nothing to do with the Yankees. With their win yesterday, the Blue Jays have posted a 7-3 record against the Red Sox, and have single-handedly helped us stay close. Thanks Vernon Wells.

6 One correction, in my opinion, Sliced. Next stop, 11 games over .500. One at a time. That's how we'll get to 20 over.

I've been on the Colter Bean bandwagon this year, and I think he should have had a longer look, but he's really stunk it up since returning to AAA. I think he got fouled up on the Columbus Shuttle. Too bad.

2006-05-31 07:17:15
8.   bp1
6 Re: Farnsy. "Attack" is the right word. I don't say he looks mean on the mound, as in "Goose Gossage" mean, but he definitely seems intimidating. He sort of has an emotionless face, and he is built like a brick you-know-what. His base-on-balls are killer, but I'm liking him on the team. He is one strikeout machine, eh?


2006-05-31 07:17:42
9.   Sliced Bread
7 Good call, Mike. One at at time.

I knew the Jays have been tough on the Red Sox but I didn't realize they're 7-3 against them. Thank you indeed, Mr. Vernon Wells.

2006-05-31 07:18:47
10.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
7 It's not just since he's returned to Columbus. His final appearance before being called up was also a disaster.

In fact, I think he got called up the very next day. Not good timing I thought to myself, and I think posted here at the Banter, at the time.

2006-05-31 07:23:34
11.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
Re the Jays and Sawx:

If our starting pitching continues to hold up, and Torre figures out how to use the bullpen better, I still think that despite the injuries to our everyday players we're the favorites to win the east and can challenge the White Sox for the pennant.

The Sawx? Unless they can suddenly find a fifth starter, some middle relief, and get the Clement of pre-all star break last season back, they're gonna be in the rearview mirror not only of the Yanks but the Jays as well, and the D-rays, as they get healthy, might be coming up behind them.

2006-05-31 07:24:29
12.   Sliced Bread
8 I still can't get over that soft slider Farns wiffed (froze) Ortiz with last week.

And wasn't it a soft strike 3 that ended Farnsworth's inning last night? Running into the dugout, Posada looked almost surprised by how good a pitch it was.

2006-05-31 07:25:50
13.   randym77
Any thoughts on who might be called up to take Sheff's place, at least until Bubba gets back on Sunday? How's Kevin Thompson's hamstring these days?
2006-05-31 07:29:50
14.   yankaholic
12 and we get Dotel back by July... say he takes a few days or 2 weeks to get straightened out, we will have one heckava pen..

11 we all wud like Sox to end up down there, but i dont think the DRays have enuf pitching to surpass the top3. I think the top3 in this division is a tossup and we may win this and sox n jays finish in that order.

With AL West virtually out of the WildCard picture, the dogfight for the WC is between the 2nd n 3rd team of ALEast and 2nd team in ALCentral.

And this gritty team is amazing, infact they have played better with each new injury.. i think we are as extended as we can be though, so no new ones..

and i dont mind Sheff on the DL, if that means he wont wear off in October( yes he does cool-off, a under-reported thingi.. with all the ARod bashing)..

2006-05-31 07:29:59
15.   rbj
The Mariners just released Matt Lawton.
2006-05-31 07:30:22
16.   bp1
12 When you can drop one of those sliders over the plate after throwing 98mph smoke, the hitter has no chance at all. They just walk back to the dugout shaking their heads, or breaking their bats over their knees. I love it. Of course, Tom Gordon was a great setup guy when he was on as well. Some of his curveballs were just as unhittable.

I hope Dotel comes back firing on all cylinders. The backend of the Yankees bullpen will be amazing.


2006-05-31 07:36:08
17.   bp1
15 Matt Lawton vs Terrance Long? Man on man.

Remember last year with Darrel May? Last year it was starting pitchers dropping like flies. This year it is outfielders. What's next year? Infielders? Imagine A-Rod, Jeter, and Giambi all on the DL. Wow. Not good.


2006-05-31 07:39:36
18.   randym77
15 Ack. Not Lawton.

But Womack's making himself useful these days. Look at his numbers since he starting playing for Chicago:

.500 .500 .563

2006-05-31 08:36:25
20.   3rd gen yankee fan
I think the Jays are gonna surprise everyone and end up in 2nd place. Should be a very interesting game tonight, the Sux are calling up a AA pitcher, against Sux-killer Lilly.
2006-05-31 08:47:50
21.   Marcus
13 Kevin Thompson bas been back for 3 games, going 5 for 13 with 2 HRs, 1 2B, 2 BB, 2 K, and 7 R.

I would hope the Yankees stay away from Matt Lawton. Thompson would be a great short term stop gap on the bench until Bubba gets back.

2006-05-31 09:02:15
22.   wsporter
21 Marcus, I'd bet they'd say Thompson needs to play not ride the pine. If GOB is healthy and Melky and Long play Bubba will be the 4th. I'd bet they bring Reese back up if both Shef and Dammon have to sit for a 15 day stretch.

I'd like to see Thompson get a shot too, but he seems now to just be finding himself at AAA. I'd like to see him keep his momentum going there. If though, they could bring him up and get him meaningful and consistent playing time that would be different. My fear would be an Andy Phillips experience; intermittent ab's, no comfort level and disappointment.

Did anyone notice that Mendoza had another great start last night against a pretty good hitting club from Buffalo? I wonder if/when he's going to get a shot. He was pretty good for us once upon a time. I wonder if he could be again.

2006-05-31 09:08:24
23.   randym77
I read somewhere that Reese was the likely candidate, because he was called up before. I don't fully understand the intricacies of minor league options, though. (I'm still wondering why Bean was DFAd.)
2006-05-31 09:16:43
24.   Zack
Ugh, all the Long talk gives me a headache. But what is worse is not having Sheff. The difference of him in the lineup even when hes not hitting is huge, and without him we revert back to those lineups that bottom out with GOB, Long, Cabrera, Phillips...
2006-05-31 09:27:48
25.   wsporter
23 Randy, As I understand the rules, (with the caveat that I could be wrong) a team can carry any player in their minor league system for three years. Once that three year period has elapsed the player must either be added to the 40 man roster or made a free agent. Once on the 40 man roster a player then has three years when he can be brought up to the 25 man roster or be removed from that roster and sent down to a minor league team any number of times at the teams "option" – hence the term "option years". After that three year "option" period has elapsed a player must pass through waivers in order to be removed from the 25 man roster and send down to the minor leagues (assuming of course that the player is not placed on the 15 or 60 DL). Again I could be wrong.

I still can't figure out why Bean was DFA'd either or how they managed to get him through waivers so quickly. I thought the waiver period must last for three business days. Again, there is probably a cavernous gap between my understanding and reality.

2006-05-31 09:41:39
26.   Marcus
22 I agree re: Thompson. He should stay at AAA and get regular playing time. I actually don't see Thompson ever making it with the Yankees unless Bubba is out of the picture. Perhaps if his defense was better (I don't know much about that aspect of his game, but I recall hearing defense wasn't his forte).

I also think Mendoza needs to get a shot. Or Rasner, as a starter. I'm not that interested in seeing Small much anymore. I mean it was a great story last year, and he seems like a first rate kind of guy, but he's basically just a mediocre, but extremely fortunate pitcher. He particularly doesn't seem to be effective out of the bullpen. I'd love to see Mendoza take over Small's place on the roster.

2006-05-31 09:54:26
27.   Shaun P
23 25 randy and MFD - over at Baseball Analysts (link on sidebar), they have a link to Rob Neyer's 'transactions primer' on He gives a great - and I presume correct - description on how options etc work. I end up re-reading it a lot because I can never keep it straight myself.

All that said, I think you've got it right MFD. I was hoping a transactions junkie (like Christina Kahrl) would dig into the Bean issue, but no such luck.

2006-05-31 09:58:13
28.   randym77
25 Thanks for the explanation.

Remember when Hee-Seop Choi had to clear waivers when he was sent down? People were wondering why the Yanks didn't try to claim him, and someone said there's a sort of gentlemen's agreement that you don't do that. Did that apply in the Bean situation? Would it apply if Torre decided to send Bubba to Columbus?

2006-05-31 09:59:35
29.   YankeeInMichigan
2 I was at Monday's game as well, and by comparison, Tuesday's weather was delightful. And the threats of thunderstorms never materialized.

The small scoreboards behind 1st and 3rd bases at Comerica rotate through the lineups, one player at a time, for about an hour before the game. When I saw Long's name in the lineup as DH, I thought Designated WHATer? At about 6:30, I noticed that Phillips had been inserted in the #9 spot. I immediately wondered what had happened to Giambi. When I saw Giambi was still there at DH (not noticeing that he had been moved up top #3), I was overjoyed that Torre had wised up and decided to use Phillips instead of Long, even against a righty. When the lineup circled back to "#8 Terrance Long RF," I realized that Sheffield was down again.

Long actually got some decent cuts last night. On Monday, however, a high throw to first saved him grounding into an rally-killing DP in the third.

I disagree with Alex about the game being difficult to watch. Although the pitchers were working slowly, it was a compelling, edge-of-your-seat game right from Melky's opening triple.

Speaking of Melky, he is looking awesome out there. If Shef is back next year, it will be as DH.

On the other side of the coin, Jeter looked awful at the plate both Monday and Tuesday, right down to making the first and last outs in the 11th. Not even a hard grounder in two days.

As for the booing (2), I expected it with Farnsworth. He turned down a contract extension that the Tigers offered last July, choosing to test the market instead. Not wanting to come up empty handed, Dombrowski traded him to Atlanta for Ramon Colon, last night's starter. The last couple of years, Tiger fans booed Jeter and A-Rod (I never understand the Jeter booing, as he is a Michigan boy). This year, they have let up on these two, saving their wrath for Johnny Damon. I guess that he is viewed as the latest "money grubber."

As the Tigers were making their pitching change in the 11th, we moved downstairs and took some seats behind the Yankee dugout. After Mo threw his last warmup toss to Stinnet, he gave a big smile and thumbs-up sign. On the way home, I heard Suzyn Waldman mention on her clubhouse report (yes, the signal reaches Michigan at night) that Mo had pleaded to go back and finish it off, and that Torre and Guidry had conceded send him back out, on condition that he felt good after the warmups.

2006-05-31 10:06:15
30.   YankeeInMichigan
By the way, I was a bit envious of the Tiger fans when Zumaya was pitching. For a fan, there is no thrill like seeing a kid come up from the system and light it up. These moments are few and far between in the Bronx.
2006-05-31 10:12:49
31.   randym77
I wonder if that jammed index finger is bothering Jeter more than he's letting on. No hits on a night when the rest of the lineup is teeing 'em off. And his defense wasn't that great, either.
2006-05-31 10:13:28
32.   Alex Belth
Hey thanks for the correction on Rivera...

From Buster Olney's blog:

"Two observations from the Tigers-Yankees game Tuesday, which ended in a Detroit loss: The Tigers were down by a large margin early, but Jim Leyland was convinced they could win and managed the middle innings the way most managers work in the eighth and ninth, an impressive bit of maneuvering; and secondly, the Achilles' heel of the team, undoubtedly, is the aggressiveness of its young hitters. They will, and do, chase bad pitches, and it'll be interesting to see how that trait evolves over the long summer, and whether it hurts them against good teams with experienced pitchers."

2006-05-31 10:15:24
33.   Alex Belth
I remember the Detroit fans really giving Jeter the business early in his career when the Tigers were still playing at Tiger Stadium. They used to get all over him.
2006-05-31 10:15:57
34.   Alex Belth
I remember the Detroit fans really giving Jeter the business early in his career when the Tigers were still playing at Tiger Stadium. They used to get all over him.
2006-05-31 10:15:59
35.   Alex Belth
I remember the Detroit fans really giving Jeter the business early in his career when the Tigers were still playing at Tiger Stadium. They used to get all over him.
2006-05-31 10:16:53
36.   Alex Belth
2006-05-31 10:28:49
37.   Cliff Corcoran
One thing nobody's mentioned that I dug about last night's game: The Yankee line-up was two-thirds homegrown. Only Giambi, Rodriguez and Long were imports. Bernie, Jeter, Posada, Cano, Melky and Phillips were all drafted/signed by the Yanks out of school. If only Wang had started. Fitting that Mo got the win pitching three innings in that game.

Also interesting that those six homegrown players split neatly into two eras (though Phillips is closer in age to Jeter than Cano).

2006-05-31 10:30:45
38.   Cliff Corcoran
Oh, and 27 the sidebar here has a link to a transactions primer (under Information Overload) that I think is superior to Nyer's (though they're very similar).
2006-05-31 10:31:49
39.   Alex Belth
Pete Abraham noted last night:

"They're tied for first at 30-20 despite all the injuries. They didn't get 10 games over .500 until August last season. Enjoy it. These are good times."

True enough. Considering all the injuries it is something that they are doing so well. Who knows how long it'll last. Carpe Diem indeed!

2006-05-31 10:36:10
40.   wsporter
27 MFD don't you agree that there was a gap between what was reported to have happened and what appeared to have happened in the matter of Bean's demotion? It's not Watergate but it does seem a little odd.

Thanks for the link! I hate to say this but I really don't read Neyer any longer (I'm sure he's a great guy). Maybe it's my own Yankeeness but he just comes across as a Bill James mouth piece and Sawx rooter. He so often seems to paint a rosy picture for those people and a less than flattering one for us. His dogged belief in his methodology reminds me of reading Spinoza; there's a strain of dogmatic inflexibility and belief in the numbers that just bugs me. Maybe it's just my warped perspective but I'm just a little sick of that "I baby-sat for Bill's children" story.

28 I'll bet the rules are circumvented all the time in such a tight-knit and closed market place but I sure have no idea how. I can believe that there are gentleman's agreements made or agreements not to act in exchange for some unstated consideration. It may be hard to get all the teams involved in the waiver chain but I can see it happening. It just seems though in that Bean matter that the actual mechanics of the transaction process and what appears to have happened don't coincide. Again, I'm sure I'm missing something and there is a simple explanation that will reconcile the DFA report and getting Bean through waivers so quickly.

2006-05-31 10:41:36
41.   wsporter
I read somewhere this morning that 19 out the next 29 counting from June 1 are at home with a couple of long homestands (Yankees site I think). Better make hay while the sun shines.
2006-05-31 10:42:16
42.   rbj
The Gentlemen's Agreement used to be written about a lot, during the '70s & '80s, IIRC. Somewhere not too many years ago it kind of got pushed down. For some reason I think Jim Bowden had something to do with it, though I could be wrong; as well, the hyper competitivness between Saux & Yanks.
2006-05-31 10:42:18
43.   DarrenF
Not sure how to reference a previous post with the link, but in reference to post #2: If that guy was "semi-obnoxious," I'd be afraid to see what qualifies as "fully obnoxious." Maybe a Yankee fan with a rifle picking off the Tigers players as they ran onto the field.

Alex, I bought "Stepping Up" for an upcoming Father's Day gift. Plug, plug.

2006-05-31 10:43:54
44.   yankaholic
41 U r not alone.. i cant stand neyer.. just watch one of his online chats on ESPN.. i mean i thought he used to be objective, but he's got something negative abt every Yankee qn..

he was famously said in one of his chats this december that Cano will not make it past this May in the Yankee team.. and he has also predicted a 3rd place for us..

oh.. he is honest abt his hate for the team.. i wonder how objective the guy can really be..

u know, we should let Joe Morgan n R Neyer sit next to each other and talk abt oakland A's it wud be fun..

2006-05-31 10:44:41
45.   randym77
I am enjoying it. More than I have in a long time, I confess. I think the kids have added some real spark to this team.

Today's quote, from Joe Torre:

"I told Moose, 'I need eight from you and then Gator can finish.'"

Apparently, they are sending Hill down and bringing up a pitcher. (Rasner?) I guess if push comes to shove, Cairo can play in the outfield again.

2006-05-31 10:45:45
46.   yankaholic
oops In 44 reference shud be to 40 not 41
2006-05-31 10:49:59
47.   rbj
You weren't sitting right in front of him. There's no need to comment on every single moment.
2006-05-31 10:50:53
48.   YankeeInMichigan
43: Square brackets take care of the link.

Fully obnoxious is what we had in the back of Section 332. As the late innings set in (and epecially after Giambi's homer), he began a non-stop barage of every obscenity in the book directed against the Yankees (even including "The Yankees are communists!").

2006-05-31 10:51:10
49.   unpopster
33, 34, 35 I took some clients to the MLB All-Star Game last year in Detroit and the booing directed at Jeter and Arod were merciless. Even Mo was booed! I couldn't understand it until I noticed that every fan wearing a Yankee jersey was harrassed as they walked around the stadium as well.

It's not anti-Jeter or anti-Arod, they just hate the Yanks. I don't get it though. I understand such a reception in Beantown, but all the way in Detroit? Don't they have the White Sox and Indians to direct their venom at?

By the way, on a side note, though Comerica Park is a beautiful Stadium, I wish they would have just built it any place other than Downtown Detroit. While at the ASG, I spoke to plenty of people in Detroit that said that the ASG was really the city's dress rehearsal for last year's Super Bowl. I didn't go to the Super Bowl, but if the dress rehearsal was any indication, Detroit must have failed miserably for the Super Bowl.

2006-05-31 10:57:04
50.   randym77
That guy was pretty annoying after awhile, but I've heard a lot more obnoxious than him. At least he wasn't obscene.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-05-31 11:37:32
51.   rbj
Rocket's in Houston:
Pretty much as I expected. And at least he won't be in Boston.
2006-05-31 11:40:11
52.   Schteeve
I think they should 60 day Sheff right now, he can rejoin the team for the push to the playoffs. But running the risk of him continually reinjuring it for the next 3 months, until it finally gets to the point where he has to shut it down or have surgery, is not a good idea.
2006-05-31 11:42:42
53.   dianagramr

... especially with as much torque as Sheff inflicts, the risks of reinjury are immense.

2006-05-31 11:43:45
54.   ChuckM
I know it's a bit late for the post, but there definitely was a gentlemen's agreement regarding waivers, I remember my dad telling me about it. Kinda went out the window in the early 90's or so. Can't recall a specific "event" that signaled the end of it. Although more recently there was the time the Yanks got stuck w/Canseco because they put in a block claim...
2006-05-31 11:59:31
55.   Cliff Corcoran
54 As this is the second time it has come up, I have to step in and correct. The Canseco thing is unrelated to the Choi/Bean situation.

Canseco was put on revokable waivers after the trading deadline in 2000. The Yankees put on a claim to block a trade thinking they'd force the Devil Rays to take him off waivers and keep him. That sort of thing happens all the time in August and September. Tons of players are passed through waivers to make them available in trades after the July 31 non-waiver trading deadline. Most pass through, some are claimed and then recalled by their teams. You never hear about any of that because whether a player clears waivers or is recalled, he stays with his original team. Where the Canseco scenario deviated from the expected course was that the Rays didn't recall Canseco and the Yanks, who never intended to add him to their roster, had to keep him.

The Choi/Bean thing is a player being placed on irrevokable waivers for the purpose of being either optioned to the minors (Choi) or removed from the 40-man roster and then assigned to the minors (Bean). In those cases, players can't be recalled, so there is no such thing as a "block claim." Teams have actually to want the player in order to claim him.

If there is a gentlemen's agreement (and if there is it is both asbsurd and surprising given the collusion scandal of the mid '80s), it concerns these sorts of moves in which waivers are required to demote a player.

2006-05-31 12:03:51
56.   Shaun P
40 MFD, I have a sentimental attachment to Neyer. I've been reading his writing since he was babysitting Bill James's kids. The 1990 Bill James Baseball Book. He did a few of those, 3 or 4 - not as known as the Abstracts, but very interesting nonetheless.

And while Neyer sometimes is overly critical about the Yanks, and overly fawning towards Boston, I find his opinions are at least based in fact. I don't always agree with his conclusions, but at least he works from facts. That's more than can be said for other baseball writers I know.

38 Thanks Cliff. That transactions primer has a lot of things that Neyer's is missing. Neyer's was also written in '99, IIRC, so something written more recently is probably the better source.

2006-05-31 12:30:49
57.   Sliced Bread
37 Holy crop! 2/3rds homegrown? That has to be a record for the Yanks. I wonder if Gene Michael, Cashman, Steinbrenner, etc. were aware of how many Yankee farm products they had on display there. I'm sure old George knew exactly how much money he had convalescing on the pine.
2006-05-31 12:40:15
58.   wsporter
56 MFD I don't doubt that baby sitting story. I'll admit there are times I wish he stuck to baby sitting as a career path. I recall becoming annoyed when he would appear to present hypothesis and projections as matters of fact and employ them in order to criticize the Yankees and pump up the Sawx.

I used to read him each time a new article of his would come out and would regularly visit his site but it became too much work after a while. I'm glad you can still get something out of him. As I say, he's probably a good guy.

2006-05-31 12:47:04
59.   Knuckles
Pretty sure Neyer's a (very frustrated) KC fan. He hates all major market teams, I guess with an exception for the Sox because he admires their hiring of Bill James.

Calling the Yanks communists is about as funny and uneducated as you can get. Especially coming from Tigers fans, who were on the receiving end of revenue sharing to the tune of $5M in 2001, curiously a year after Comerica opened.

2006-05-31 12:53:55
60.   Shaun P
Knuckles 59, it sounds like communism was just a red herring.

Are there any decent baseball writers/columnists/commentators in the Detroit media? Or are those guys "evil big-spending Yankees" types?

As I believe BklynBmr pointed out last night, the Tigers' TV announcers leave much to be desired.

2006-05-31 12:59:49
61.   yankaholic
One main reason i wish the Yanks were under the cap stems from the fact that King G doesnt have to pay lux tax and then the fans wud know which owner spends or not..

its getting ridiculous all the anti0yankee hate and yet feeding off the KING's money..

F**Kin Frustrating

2006-05-31 13:26:23
62.   wsporter
59 60 Maybe Neyer's a communist? Not that there's anything wrong with that.
2006-05-31 13:29:12
63.   domvjr
Looks like Jeter is hurting more than he let on. He is out of the lineup for tonight! No Damon, Jeter, or Sheffield playing tonight.
2006-05-31 13:33:50
64.   randym77
63 Oy. I'm not surprised, after yesterday, but jeez, what next?
2006-05-31 13:40:44
65.   Start Spreading the News
These injuries all point to why a DH should not win MVP unless his numbers are soooo much better.
2006-05-31 13:42:26
66.   Knuckles
Hopefully one of the banged-up crew is available to pinch hit tonight. Moose v Robertson gives us a very good chance to take the first 3 against Detroit, leaving us to play with house money in the Wang-Verlander tilt tomorrow; it would suck to come up on the wrong end of a 3-2 game with another quality start from Mussina.
2006-05-31 13:42:38
67.   rbj
64 Tory Lovullo is managing the Buffalo Bison and still looks to be in shape. . .
2006-05-31 13:45:52
68.   tommyl
Where are you guys looking up the lineup already?
2006-05-31 13:52:09
69.   randym77
It was announced on the radio and several people posted it to the YES message boards.

Melky LF
Cairo SS
Giami DH
A-Rod 3B
Posada C
Cano 2B
Bernie CF
Philips 1B
Long RF

2006-05-31 14:03:54
70.   tommyl
69 Cairo batting second? Why not push up Giambi or A-Rod?
2006-05-31 14:04:56
71.   Rob Gee
geruvfnd Long idfvcn Long io;wdfchsw Long worpufjkd loklng ruof;ijsd geridsolvLong sduchgiofdlk lOnmg georh-usdklcn wefoi; Long ordhskj LZKSxoisg Lujgjngfc sdwoi;p.vdn fopew Long
2006-05-31 14:10:56
72.   wsporter
Wow, that's not the lineup that inspired dreams of a 1,000 run season. Man this is getting ugly; Jeter, Damon, Shef and Matsui all sitting. If they can win in Detroit with that lineup I really will be a believer. Go Yankeees.
2006-05-31 14:13:03
73.   randym77
How about swapping Cano and Cairo?

BTW, the new game thread is up.

2006-05-31 14:21:28
74.   wsporter
I think Rob G has the Long Virus and it's corrupted his Input/Output system. He needs a system purge and a better firewall. STAT.
2006-05-31 14:57:24
75.   Shaun P
74 Poor Rob Gee. If Sheff goes on the DL, we might not get his Long-induced severe head trauma cleaned up until mid-June.

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